Gothic 3 1.7 combat
Memnoch
just remembered why I un-installed it in the first place. I hate the combat in
this game with a passion. Faced against a single Goblin, I press and hold the
right mouse button to parry and....nothing! He cuts me down as if I was facing
away from him. And yet against some creatures like lurkers I can just sit
there holding right mouse down and parry till the cows come home. Perhaps I
had more patience with the game when I first bought it as I got further than
this but right now I'm seriously considering un-installing it again and
finding a nice shallow grave in the garden for it.
I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but I'm sure someone will point that out
shortly. :-)
Trimble Bracegirdle
The thing to be aware of with all the opposition is to get & keep on the
offensive.
E.g Rushing at a group (wolves, Orcs, etc. etc., whatever) swinging as fast
as possible with Hero's sword etc. will often defeat the lot with little
injury to Hero..
whilst elegantly hopping & dodging will allow them to get an injury on Hero
then its likely a lost or very difficult Battle.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") mouse (Don't forget the 'good ol' Fireball')
mace
<memn...@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I just finished playing this again for the first time since I bought it and I
> just remembered why I un-installed it in the first place. I hate the combat in
> this game with a passion. Faced against a single Goblin, I press and hold the
> right mouse button to parry and....nothing!
I think it's a feature that you can't parry against short creatures.
> He cuts me down as if I was facing
> away from him. And yet against some creatures like lurkers I can just sit
> there holding right mouse down and parry till the cows come home. Perhaps I
> had more patience with the game when I first bought it as I got further than
> this but right now I'm seriously considering un-installing it again and
> finding a nice shallow grave in the garden for it.
I was thinking that too couple of days ago, but it is definitely
getting better when you are starting to get accustomed to the combat.
> I'm sure I'm doing something wrong but I'm sure someone will point that out
> shortly. :-)
The fighting system really need to be practiced because you have to
employ different tactics against different kind of enemies. And of
course you have to get the creatures to aid you by leading them to
your enemies or leading the enemies to the towns or pack of creatures.
I'm playing on hard and fighting would be extremely frustrating
without a companion and creatures there to help me.
Or you can just switch to easy.....
Nostromo
Where is johns when you need him!? <BFG> *duck*
(oh yeah, in my bit bucket, he, he :)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
"Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10 >8^D
Where is Gabe anyway? Haven't seen/heard boo of her here since early Jan
:( Though I see posts on some German groups late March. Have we offended
you fraulien? ;)
--
Nostromo
johns
difficulty, the combat is quite hard. I use the standard FPS
keybd and mouse settings, so I put block on X .. I can back
and block, and then shift quickly to forward and attack.
What I notice is I may take a lot of hits, but with little
life-point loss .. THAT'S the block, and you just can't
see it. Also, for goblins, I wait until they are fairly close
and then I hold W ( forward ) while attacking. Again, I
lose very few hit points. The side step is still working,
and that is a good one for skeletons. I think I remember
that NOTR used "backup" for block too, so it feels very
natural to me. Holding Rmouse never worked well for
block, and I take it off there, and just use Rmouse for
forward ... with W for forward attack.
There's a few other NOTR stunts that work in G3.1.7
pretty well. I don't think they are exactly fair to the
game, but so what. Trick when attacking hoards of
Orcs is to jump up on top of a tent or building, and use
the bow. You have to stay away from the side where
there are Orc bowmen, but no biggie. Also, there is
a special bow that gives Orc Slayer early in the game.
I have 2 bows on my quick select .. one is a high pointer
against goblins, the other gets Orcs quickly.
I found another dirty stunt .. when you go after a herd
of Rhinos, just stand behind any medium size rock.
For some stupid reason all the Rhinos line up and try
to go over the top of the rock, and you can whack them
easily.
Best sword in the game is once again, the Long Sword.
I get mine early, by stealing one at Faring. When you
get access to the Castle, there's a room by the drummers
just full of Long Swords. Sharpen it, and you're good to
go ... until you build your own.
So, the best approach now is to build hunting skills
very high ... 250 .. and get both bows. Buy every arrow
you see. Crossbows are good for slow shooting from
a perch. Goal is life and endurance to 400. And then
learn all the NOTR dirty tricks ... climb on tents ..
stand behind rocks .. fight through walls .. oh, and
a biggie is to jump up on old stone ruin walls. Nothing
can get you there, and you can bow every Bison in
Myrtana that way ... and every wolf in Varant too.
I just completed the attack on the Orc camp in Nordmar
where I have to run in and attack the Shaman and get
his Ancestor Stone. There's at least 50 Orcs in that
camp, and you ain't got a China man's chance without
a dirty trick or two. I ran in .. jumped the Orcs .. killed
the Shaman, and quickly started running around the tents
in the camp. That got the Orcs away from the Shaman's
tent, so I ran back and got his Ancestor Stone. Heh !
Now, the trick is to run until you spot the Orc bowmen
and take them out with the sword .. not easy. After
that, there's a tent near the hillside with barrels beside
it. Jump up and grab your Orc Slayer bow and make
sure you've got plenty of arrows. If you can't get to the
Orc bowmen, just use your OrcSlayer bow from a
distance, and run like blazes and shoot.
If you've found an impossible quest, I'm sure I've got
the NOTR trick to make it much easier.
johns
Michael Cecil
>"Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10 >8^D
>
>Where is Gabe anyway? Haven't seen/heard boo of her here since early Jan
>:( Though I see posts on some German groups late March. Have we offended
>you fraulien? ;)
Him.
--
Michael Cecil
Turos the Champion, Krond the Guard and Malmo the Burglar
of the Guardians of Anduin on Elendilmir of LotRO
Oliver Nowak
> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:53:05 +1000, Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>> "Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10 >8^D
>>
>> Where is Gabe anyway? Haven't seen/heard boo of her here since early Jan
>> :( Though I see posts on some German groups late March. Have we offended
>> you fraulien? ;)
>
> Him.
Gabriele might be a male forename in Italy, in German language areas
it's a women's name.
--
O.
Trimble Bracegirdle
firstly adventure quests .. Set the combat to easy & enter cheats.
Memnoch
>I'm about half way through. If you have Alt AI and Medium
>difficulty, the combat is quite hard. I use the standard FPS
>keybd and mouse settings, so I put block on X .. I can back
>and block, and then shift quickly to forward and attack.
>What I notice is I may take a lot of hits, but with little
>life-point loss .. THAT'S the block, and you just can't
>see it. Also, for goblins, I wait until they are fairly close
>and then I hold W ( forward ) while attacking. Again, I
>lose very few hit points. The side step is still working,
>and that is a good one for skeletons. I think I remember
>that NOTR used "backup" for block too, so it feels very
>natural to me. Holding Rmouse never worked well for
>block, and I take it off there, and just use Rmouse for
>forward ... with W for forward attack.
I think that just about answers my question really. There is no workable
parry/block model in this game. Some creatures it works on and others
completely ignore it. For instance, pretty early on you encounter a
Minecrawler. This will inflict a one hit kill even if you are parrying. Not
all the time but enough to make fighting them extrememly annoying. As you
state backing up out of the range of attack is the new block and you have even
gone as far as unbinding it. I can see this one heading for the grave. If I
ever get around to it I will take some photos of the ceremony an perhaps even
rig up a little tombstone for it. I got annoyed with it when it was released
and I'm even more annoyed with it now. Hey, that would look great on the
headstone don't you think?
Nostromo
18:13:28 +0200, Anno Domini:
Yeah, I thought I'd already made this mistake once :).
--
Nostromo
johns
> Minecrawler. This will inflict a one hit kill even if you are parrying. Not
> all the time but enough to make fighting them extrememly annoying.
Minecrawlers are bow bait. You come in and lure them after you
until they leave their cave. Then planning ahead, you jump up on
something, or just move far away, and take them out with a War
Bow.
I just completed the quest at the Fire Clan to go Orc hunting
with a guy there. That quest is impossible if you wade into
the camp with your sword. Your buddy will get killed, and
the quest will fail .. plus you will get whacked too. Now the
NOTR trick. At the entrance to the Orc camp look to your
right. There's a ramp leading up the hill above the Orcs in
the camp. If you get up there with your Orc Slayer bow, it
is bad news for the Orcs. However, you can't let your buddy
follow you to the camp .. plus, if he doesn't follow you, there's
no Orcs in the camp. So the NOTR trick: while in the Fire
Clan camp talking to your bud ... as soon as you complete
the conversation, and you are to follow him to the Orc camp,
instead, run like blazes ahead of him. He will stop and wait
for you. Instead, you go to the slope above the Orcs camp
and now there are Orcs all over the place. Take your time
and let them keep walking back, and you will clear the camp.
Then, go back and your buddy will run up to you, and you
follow him to the camp to complete the quest. The whole
game is like that now.
Wait until you try the arena battle with the 2 Hashishin
at Bakaresh. It is not impossible, but it sure seems like
it. Trick there is to discover that when you run behind
the 2 door barriers, you get a brief chance to grab a
healing potion. You learn to run in a big circle and
watch for them to get separated .. then you get in a
couple of quick blows, and start running the circle
again. You can quick save, but if you do a reload for
some reason, they both come back with restored
health, and you have to start over. I put the healing
potions on the quick select bar for that. It took me
about 20 restarts to figure that out.
As you
> state backing up out of the range of attack is the new block and you have even
> gone as far as unbinding it. I can see this one heading for the grave.
It's OK if you figure out the exploits ... for a once through anyway.
Problem is now, the exploits .. just like NOTR .. kind of take you
out of the game.
WDS
> > completely ignore it. For instance, pretty early on you encounter a
> > Minecrawler. This will inflict a one hit kill even if you are parrying. Not
> > all the time but enough to make fighting them extrememly annoying.
>
> Minecrawlers are bow bait. You come in and lure them after you
> until they leave their cave. Then planning ahead, you jump up on
> something, or just move far away, and take them out with a War
> Bow.
Which is the lamest way to fight in a game ever. If the game
*requires* this then its combat system (or creature layout) is
fundamentally broken.
John Lewis
You only use melee-type weapons? No intelligent weapons combos?
Minecrawlers and other powerful enemies early in the game need the
services of distance with a bow and retreat-speed (or inaccessibility
of a ledge) or a few nasty projectile-type spells. Also, if you are
smart at luring the enemy you might get a bunch of NPCs into the fight
on your side.....
Developing some cunning in the ways of disposing of enemies (with the
appropriate balance of stats) is one of the attractions of open-play
action-rpgs, like the Gothic series, FO3 etc.... Gets really, really
boring once the player becomes super-powerful. No intellectual
stimulus when you just hack, slash, kill, rinse 'n repeat..... Might
as well be playing Doom3, Quake 4....
John Lewis
Michael Cecil
I just used the spinning halberd move on them (and any time I got
surrounded too.)
Memnoch
>Wait until you try the arena battle with the 2 Hashishin
>at Bakaresh. It is not impossible, but it sure seems like
>it. Trick there is to discover that when you run behind
>the 2 door barriers, you get a brief chance to grab a
>healing potion.
When I was played this bit when the game was first released I thought it was
rather easy. IIRC I used magic on them. I also remember some kind of Orc camp
and I must confess I think I used ranged on them back then too. I think there
have been too many games released between then and now that have completely
tarnished my view of this game and its mechanics.
Memnoch
Which is pretty much what I believe. If you don't have a workable parry system
then it comes down to either a game of who has the most HP and DPS, which
makes it more of an MMO in that respect, or you have to use bugs/exploits to
get through. Either way it does not make for a fun game.
Memnoch
>On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:20:44 GMT, Memnoch
><mem...@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>I think that just about answers my question really. There is no workable
>>parry/block model in this game. Some creatures it works on and others
>>completely ignore it. For instance, pretty early on you encounter a
>>Minecrawler. This will inflict a one hit kill even if you are parrying. Not
>>all the time but enough to make fighting them extrememly annoying. As you
>>state backing up out of the range of attack is the new block and you have even
>>gone as far as unbinding it. I can see this one heading for the grave. If I
>>ever get around to it I will take some photos of the ceremony an perhaps even
>>rig up a little tombstone for it. I got annoyed with it when it was released
>>and I'm even more annoyed with it now. Hey, that would look great on the
>>headstone don't you think?
>
>You only use melee-type weapons? No intelligent weapons combos?
>Minecrawlers and other powerful enemies early in the game need the
>services of distance with a bow and retreat-speed (or inaccessibility
>of a ledge) or a few nasty projectile-type spells. Also, if you are
>smart at luring the enemy you might get a bunch of NPCs into the fight
>on your side.....
I've done that before but most fights end up like that in the end. Further up
the coast, when I was playing this way back, I found an inaccesible place on a
high building and killed all the Orcs with a bow. It seems whenever
discussion about this game turns to the combat the answer almost always ends
up recommending a bow and running backwards or some kind of magic. But
whatever you do don't attempt to hit them with your sword. You'll get hurt!
;-)
John Lewis
Just pick your melee fights carefully --- depending on your stats and
weapons, armor, shields at that time...... Many of the enemies do make
juicy sword mincemeat.
John Lewis
Pibbur Dragon
Exactly what is wrong with this? I don't know if the game requires it (I
haven't played it), but I've on several occasions, in different games
used similar tactics when facing monsters who were a bit too strong for
me. Fighting raptors in Gothic 1 is one example.
I would assume similar approaches have also been used on the real life
server.
---
Pibbur
johns
> *requires* this then its combat system (or creature layout) is
> fundamentally broken.
I think I found one even lamer last night. In Nordmar, there's
an Orc camp near the half-way down entrance to the Hammer
Clan mine. I've always fought them in the open using lure and
run-away, and I could take them on in numbers of 2 or 3
with the Long Sword. No way now. I knew there had to be
an exploit, so I did a run into the camp looking for a tent
to jump up on. Instead, I found a very low tarp on the side
of a tent, and I jumped up on that. It was so low that the Orcs
attacking me, who went under the tarp had their heads
sticking up through the tarp right by my feet. Still they could
not hit me with their swords, nor could the Orc bowmen
hit me because the tarp was located in a group of tents
and they could not shoot from a distance. But, I could
hit them with my Orc Slayer bow easily. Pretty silly
looking to see all those Orc heads sticking up through
the tarp. That was just too exploity.
johns
Michael Cecil
Well...using terrain tactics is an exploit! Didn't you know?
Just ask the dev team at Turbine.
Pibbur Dragon
I remember in the game Shadowcaster, in one of the lower levels there
were some monsters I had no chance at killing. After numerous deaths I
found out that if I carefully aligned myself with a corner I could zap
the baddies, but they couldn't reach me. Now that was a bug and an
exploit. I humbly admit it.
Then I've played a lot of games where monsters could hit me or shoot
from behind walls, hills. I guess that was the games' revenge.
Exploiting terrain - I better stop playing all those RTS's then. (Or
rather not start playing them).
What has Turbine got to do with this, btw? Something I haven't found out
in LOTRO?
---
Cheating Pibbur
Sheldon England
> Well...using terrain tactics is an exploit! Didn't you know?
> Just ask the dev team at Turbine.
>
Naughty, Michael. Just don't go comparing Turbine with the Khmer Rouge. :P
Reading these posts, I obviously played Gothic 3 all wrong, what little
of it I did play. I recall madly clicking the attack (right mouse)
button and charging all foes until they died. It seemed to always work.
It was the storyline that I just couldn't seem to get into.
- Sheldon
Nostromo
LOTRO prevents you from hurting a mob if they can't reach you i.e. if
you jump on a cabin roof & start peppering wolves with arrows. Seems
silly to me - after all, these are *definitely* advantages you'd use in
a real world situation if you had wolves chasing after you! Not to
mention shooting out of windows, arrow slits, from behind tight
crevasses/rocks, etc. But, then again, we have to make compromises to
allow for the uber-exploiters, even if it feels like Turbine has gone
all Khmer Rouge on us! >8^D
--
Nostromo
Michael Cecil
<sheldon...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Michael Cecil wrote:
>> Well...using terrain tactics is an exploit! Didn't you know?
>> Just ask the dev team at Turbine.
>>
>
>Naughty, Michael. Just don't go comparing Turbine with the Khmer Rouge. :P
>
>Reading these posts, I obviously played Gothic 3 all wrong, what little
>of it I did play. I recall madly clicking the attack (right mouse)
>button and charging all foes until they died. It seemed to always work.
Well, it's not as bad as Severance - Blade of Darkness, but G3 definitely
uses combo moves. I got so I could do that spinning halberd move pretty
well and just used it a lot.
>It was the storyline that I just couldn't seem to get into.
Liberating the people from the invading orcs? I liked that. I just
didn't like the goofy ending or the way that a certain sorcerer's
storyline felt contrived. But the rest was pretty good, I thought.
Memnoch
>On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:57:28 -0800, Sheldon England
><sheldon...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Michael Cecil wrote:
>>> Well...using terrain tactics is an exploit! Didn't you know?
>>> Just ask the dev team at Turbine.
>>>
>>
>>Naughty, Michael. Just don't go comparing Turbine with the Khmer Rouge. :P
>>
>>Reading these posts, I obviously played Gothic 3 all wrong, what little
>>of it I did play. I recall madly clicking the attack (right mouse)
>>button and charging all foes until they died. It seemed to always work.
>
>Well, it's not as bad as Severance - Blade of Darkness, but G3 definitely
>uses combo moves. I got so I could do that spinning halberd move pretty
>well and just used it a lot.
Severance. Now that game had visceral melee combat. One of the few games which
I played all the way through with each character. My fabourite though had to
be the one I started with, the Barbarian. My least favourite was the Amazon or
whatever she was called.
Michael Cecil
I liked the barbarian too. One thing I liked, besides plucking arrows out
of my body and using them as ammo, was the fact that you actually had to
aim to bow (like in Thief) instead of just using a crosshair.
Pibbur Dragon
---
Pibbur
Sheldon England
> Sheldon England wrote:
>
>
>> It was the storyline that I just couldn't seem to get into.
>>
>
> Liberating the people from the invading orcs? I liked that. I just
> didn't like the goofy ending or the way that a certain sorcerer's
> storyline felt contrived. But the rest was pretty good, I thought.
>
I recall liking the opening movie but there seemed to be a lot of
reference to the previous games and activities, so much so that I felt I
was missing out on some inside jokes and back-story.
Sure, liberating people is a fine activity but I just felt like I was
this guy with a crappy sword trying to find things to do. I would go
hunting dodos (or whatever those birds were) and got a couple quests but
just never really felt I had a mission. Once I finally got to upgrade
some skills I recall thinking "Oh good, now I am 0.0001% less crappy."
After a while I just tried exploring but even that was unrewarding --
not like Far Cry (that I was also playing at the time). Nowhere peaked
my curiosity so I was just wandering the beaches and forests, found a
magic dome protecting an area, then just moved along to other games.
Should I re-install and try again with this new patch or just leave it
on my bookshelf collecting dust?
- Sheldon
Michael Cecil
<sheldon...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Michael Cecil wrote:
>> Sheldon England wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It was the storyline that I just couldn't seem to get into.
>>>
>>
>> Liberating the people from the invading orcs? I liked that. I just
>> didn't like the goofy ending or the way that a certain sorcerer's
>> storyline felt contrived. But the rest was pretty good, I thought.
>>
>
>I recall liking the opening movie but there seemed to be a lot of
>reference to the previous games and activities, so much so that I felt I
>was missing out on some inside jokes and back-story.
Yeah, if you didn't play the earlier games you missed a lot. The earlier
games are great. You ought to pick them up if you can find them.
>Sure, liberating people is a fine activity but I just felt like I was
>this guy with a crappy sword trying to find things to do. I would go
>hunting dodos (or whatever those birds were) and got a couple quests but
>just never really felt I had a mission. Once I finally got to upgrade
>some skills I recall thinking "Oh good, now I am 0.0001% less crappy."
>
>After a while I just tried exploring but even that was unrewarding --
>not like Far Cry (that I was also playing at the time). Nowhere peaked
>my curiosity so I was just wandering the beaches and forests, found a
>magic dome protecting an area, then just moved along to other games.
>
>Should I re-install and try again with this new patch or just leave it
>on my bookshelf collecting dust?
You ought to get the first games and play those through first, then do G3.
It really wasn't meant to be played without the others, I don't think.
It'd be like playing U7-The Serpent Isle without playing any of the
earlier Ultimas.
Sheldon England
> Sheldon England wrote:
>
>
>> Michael Cecil wrote:
>>
>>> Sheldon England wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It was the storyline that I just couldn't seem to get into.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Liberating the people from the invading orcs? I liked that. I just
>>> didn't like the goofy ending or the way that a certain sorcerer's
>>> storyline felt contrived. But the rest was pretty good, I thought.
>>>
>>>
>> I recall liking the opening movie but there seemed to be a lot of
>> reference to the previous games and activities, so much so that I felt I
>> was missing out on some inside jokes and back-story.
>>
>
> Yeah, if you didn't play the earlier games you missed a lot. The earlier
> games are great. You ought to pick them up if you can find them.
>
Hmm. I have a feeling that would be like my Baldur's Gate experience.
After enjoying Neverwinter Nights so much a friend gave me his old copy
of BG and the Throne of Bhal (or whatever) expansion. After playing NwN,
the BG interface seemed so old and clunky that I just couldn't get into it.
Thanks as always for your feedback. I am obliged.
- Sheldon
ps: Time to update your .sig, Mr. Living-in-the-Past. :P
Michael Cecil
<sheldon...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Hmm. I have a feeling that would be like my Baldur's Gate experience.
>After enjoying Neverwinter Nights so much a friend gave me his old copy
>of BG and the Throne of Bhal (or whatever) expansion. After playing NwN,
>the BG interface seemed so old and clunky that I just couldn't get into it.
Wow, the party members in BG&BG2 really stand out compared to NWN. The
NWN interface is better, but the game is kinda feeble, IMO.
Anyhow, I'll have you know that after I finished G3, I went back and
played the whole series from G1 and G2+NotR through G3 again. Even with
it's flaws it's still a great series.
>Thanks as always for your feedback. I am obliged.
>
>
> - Sheldon
>
>
>ps: Time to update your .sig, Mr. Living-in-the-Past. :P
I'll go with this old one for now, until I can think of something witty
involving Nostromo and Zombies.
--
Michael Cecil
mac...@gmail.com
Nostromo
-0500, Anno Domini:
>>ps: Time to update your .sig, Mr. Living-in-the-Past. :P
>
>I'll go with this old one for now, until I can think of something witty
>involving Nostromo and Zombies.
Dude, no one loves a good zombie-fest like Nostromo!!! My blurb on my CoV
undead MM was "Once uv had dead u neva go back!" (limited space you
understand ;) & something similar on my GW necro. Can you guess my fave D2
class man? ;-p
--
Nostromo
Ceowulf
> Michael Cecil erklärte :
>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:53:05 +1000, Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>>> "Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10 >8^D
>>>
>>> Where is Gabe anyway? Haven't seen/heard boo of her here since early
>>> Jan :( Though I see posts on some German groups late March. Have we
>>> offended you fraulien? ;)
>>
>> Him.
>
> Gabriele might be a male forename in Italy, in German language areas
> it's a women's name.
I'll be honest (in a stupid look like an idiot kinda way of course :p)
and say that every time I saw the name Gabriele Neukam I for some reason
always linked it instantly to Duke Nukem. And because of that thought
Gabriele was a bloke. And not just a bloke, but a bloke who liked Duke
Nukem too much.
Yep, see, that's what being honest gets ya :p
lol
--
Ceo-
Scatter
> Wow, the party members in BG&BG2 really stand out compared to NWN. The
> NWN interface is better, but the game is kinda feeble, IMO.
The shining feature of NWN for me was the aurora toolset and the large
amount of high quality user created stories. I never got into the
official campaign but was just enthralled when I loaded up my first
user story "Bone Kenning". I really liked the short story format that
was typical of user adventures.