Avernum3 - I died - that sucks
Lucian Wischik
their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
save was four hours ago.
That sucks!
Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Arcana Dragon
news:ao4jj2$mct$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk:
> Avernum3
?????????????????
--
Greetings,
Arcana Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
Dan J.S.
"Arcana Dragon" <vi...@temple.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns92A3DB2ED414ma...@193.88.15.213...
> ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) wrote in
> news:ao4jj2$mct$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk:
>
> > Avernum3
>
> ?????????????????
prob some online RPG
Lucian Wischik
>?????????????????
A turn-based role-playing game. You have a party. It features overland
travel, and in boats, and "perks". Single-player only. Dated graphics.
Interactivity and story-telling ahead of much of the competition. By
"Spiderweb Software". I tremendously enjoyed their earlier game
"Geneforge". It had some of the same sort of feel as PST.
at www.spiderwebsoftware.com or something like that (sorry, I'm too lazy
to check.)
Ykalon Dragon
You can't save in a onlinegame. Avernum 3 is a shareware rpg by
Spiderweb software. www.spidweb.com
--
Things must change. We must re-arrange them
Or we'll have to estrange them. All that I'm saying
a game's not worth playing over and over again
-Depeche Mode The Sun and the Rainfall
Spiderweb Software
<<I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died within
two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last save was four
hours ago.>>
I've been writing these games for eight years, and I must confess this is the
first time I've ever gotten a complaint like this. I suspect most people save
more often than every four hours. :-)
It's certainly not an "insta-death" situation. It's not that bad a fight,
though if you run too far too fast from the start point, you will start to run
into tougher fights. Avernum 3 has this in common with most rpgs.
For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at http://www.avernum.com. It's
been selling very well so far, so someone likes it. :-)
- Jeff Vogel
Spiderweb Software, Inc.
Award-winning fantasy role-playing games for Windows and Macintosh.
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com
Aristotle
>For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
>Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at http://www.avernum.com. It's
>been selling very well so far, so someone likes it. :-)
I'd love to, but a PC game without save anywhere is retarded.
Sorry, I'm not 15 anymore. I have more going on in my life than playing
computer or console games.
If something comes up at home, with my child, or with work, I cannot put it
off for an hour or two while I see out the next save point.
-Aristotle@Threshold
--
THRESHOLD RPG - Where Roleplaying is not an option, it's a requirement.
Player run clans, guilds, legal system, economy, religions, nobility, and
more. Roleplay online with thousands of people from all over the world.
http://www.threshold-rpg.com -**- telnet://threshold-rpg.com:23
Aristotle
>Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
>instadeath situations
Choosing to attack a monster is not instadeath.
If the reason you hadn't saved for 4 hours was simply because you never hit
the save button, then you have nobody to blame but yourself.
If this is one of those retarded games where you have to reach 'save points',
then yes, the game designers need some help.
catalyst
> In article <20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com>, spi...@aol.com (Spiderweb Software) wrote:
>
>>For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
>>Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at http://www.avernum.com. It's
>>been selling very well so far, so someone likes it. :-)
>>
>
> I'd love to, but a PC game without save anywhere is retarded.
>
> Sorry, I'm not 15 anymore. I have more going on in my life than playing
> computer or console games.
>
> If something comes up at home, with my child, or with work, I cannot put it
> off for an hour or two while I see out the next save point.
>
> -Aristotle@Threshold
>
You don't know what you're talking about. Where did you get this
information? Avernum 3 doesn't have save points; you can save anywhere
anytime. The discussion here concerns an auto save as opposed to
forcing you to hit the save button by hand.
As to that either is fine. Can never have enough saves. But if there
is no auto save it's no big deal. Can be tough if going from a game
with auto save to one without though. I got bit by Divine Divinity
after playing IWD2. After just using the auto saves in IWD2 I only did
saves in DD when I was ready to quit. Then I hit a game-stopping bug
after two hours of play. I almost deleted the game in frustration.
Just started saving every 20 minutes instead.
Spiderweb Software
<<I'd love to, but a PC game without save anywhere is retarded.>>
Cough.
My games are always save anywhere. I agree with you ... save points are a
terrible design choice. That is why I sort of wish you had taken a moment to
check out my games before you accused me of making them that way.
Actually, to be honest, my games aren't truly save anywhere. You can't save
during combat. That means that, at a given point, you might be as far as 1 or 2
minutes from being able to save. Not ideal, I admit, but not horribly onerous
either.
Knight37
> I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
> will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
> within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
> save was four hours ago.
>
> That sucks!
>
> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
>
Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
--
Knight37
You must get dizzy with everything revolving around you like that.
Knight37
> I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
> will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
> within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
> save was four hours ago.
>
> That sucks!
>
> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame the
designer. hahahah. that's funny man. Look in the mirror for your answers.
:)
--
Knight37
"So he says to me, 'You wanna be a baaaaad guy?' And I say yeah, baby! I
wanna be bad! I SAYS, SURF'S UP SPACE PONIES! I'M MAKING GRAVY WITHOUT THE
LUMPS! Aaaaaa-hahahahaha!"
-- The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight, The Tick
Masked Loser
news:20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com...
> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
> Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at http://www.avernum.com.
It's
> been selling very well so far, so someone likes it. :-)
Are you rich yet?
--
Chicks dig the mask.
Nostromo
>ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
>
>> I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
>> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
>> will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
>> within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
>> save was four hours ago.
>>
>> That sucks!
>>
>> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
>> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
>> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
>> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
>
>I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame the
>designer. hahahah. that's funny man. Look in the mirror for your answers.
>:)
Pfft! He's probably one of those Word/Excel users we all love who comes to
you after lunch & says: "What scheduled system downtime??? Nobody told me!
... No, I haven't read my Outlook today since first thing this morning...I
saw something about IT & ignored it...and no I haven't saved my work for 4
hours - why should I???". Pudding, proof, QED...>;-) *duck*
--
"The measure of (mental) health is flexibility (not comparison to some 'norm'),
the freedom to learn from experience...to be influenced by reasonable arguments...
and the appeal to the emotions...and especially the freedom to cease when sated.
The essence of illness is the freezing of behavior into unalterable and insatiable
patterns." - Lawrence Kubie
To reply via e-mail *when solicited* and given *express permission*
to do so, please replace 'spamfree' with 'htnirybal'-backwards...
Courageous
>>I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame the
>>designer.
Just translate the pitious whining to a request for an autosave feature. :)
C//
Furfoot
news:ao4jj2$mct$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
> will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
> within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
> save was four hours ago.
>
> That sucks!
>
> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
I think most anyone who plays RPG's has done the 'played too long without
saving and got bit' thing. Probably quite a few times. I don't think I've
ever seen anyone blame the game designer before, though. Go on, pass that
buck.
Valtteri Pirttilä
: ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
Hey, that's actually not such a bad thing in a game. Dungeon Keeper II
throws hints at the player to go to sleep when the computer clock starts
hitting past bedtime hours.
I used to love the game and usually didn't even realize it was 3 or 4 am
until the game told me: "your nocturnal prowess has earned you a special
gaming tip---GO TO BED!"
Sometimes I heeded the advice, and even more often I got a laugh out of
it...
Valtteri
jmfb...@aol.com
>their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
>will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
>within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
>save was four hours ago.
>
>That sucks!
>
>Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
>instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
>possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
>Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
I have a slight modification to your request: make autosave optional.
(I hate autosaves in all software.)
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Lucian Wischik
>Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
Yeah, when you're above-ground, the world gets dark at night so you can't
see much. Time to sleep.
Lucian Wischik
>What happened to me in Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't
>continue with it.
Yeah, as if... after half an hour of something else I returned to Avernum3
and played until 5am. Got told off when I turned up late to give my 9am
presentation. Back to play some more this evening. Clean clothes and
laundry can wait...
Lucian Wischik
>I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame the
>designer. hahahah. that's funny man. Look in the mirror for your answers.
The fact is, the experience I went through was not fun at all.
I could have avoided it through tedious administrative chores like saving
periodicially and managing my save slots. Maybe tedious administration is
your idea of fun. It's not mine. Indeed, the act of saving is a bit of an
immersion-breaker for me.
Mieke Schotting
LOL
That wouldnt be bad in my case, when I really get into a game, I do tend
to forget about those annoying real life tasks.:P
Earendil
--
Earendil Dragon
RPGs on the NET:
http://home01.wxs.nl/~scho3186/
Mieke Schotting
> In article <20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com>, spi...@aol.com (Spiderweb Software) wrote:
> >For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
> >Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at http://www.avernum.com. It's
> >been selling very well so far, so someone likes it. :-)
>
> I'd love to, but a PC game without save anywhere is retarded.
>
I have a folder with at least 10 save files for Avernum, and I update them
all the time.:P
In fact, I refuse to leave any place without save!!!
I strongly recommend playing Avernum III.
Exile III (on which Avernum III is based)
is very high on my list of favorite RPGs, uhm like maybe second place
after Ultima VII.
Its a huge land, where you can explore, do missions, solve
quests, sell and buy wepaons/ armor etc.
You can make potions, get good spells.
It has a great turn based combat system.
A good story.
Humor.
Its one of those good games where you can wonder around and have fun
for weeks if not months if you like.
Its (IMO) a RPG how RPGs should be.
>
> Sorry, I'm not 15 anymore. I have more going on in my life than playing
> computer or console games.
>
I think you misunderstood the original poster.
HE didnt save , something which is explained to you, when you start the game:
save, save, save.
The fact the game doesnt save for you, doesnt mean you cant save yourself.
Lars-Gunnar Hartveit
"Lucian Wischik" <ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk> skrev i melding
news:ao6e9n$7jo$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> Knight37 <knig...@email.com> wrote:
> >I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame the
> >designer. hahahah. that's funny man. Look in the mirror for your answers.
>
> The fact is, the experience I went through was not fun at all.
>
> I could have avoided it through tedious administrative chores like saving
> periodicially and managing my save slots. Maybe tedious administration is
> your idea of fun. It's not mine. Indeed, the act of saving is a bit of an
> immersion-breaker for me.
>
--
Pibbur Dragon -===(UDIC)===- aka larsg (lars-gunnar hartveit)
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nT-- wC- wS---- wN+ oE---- a47
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Lucian Wischik
>Then you have excluded most RPG's for the PC I would think.
Not PST, where the consequences of death weren't bad.
Not BG2/IWD/IWD2, where there's autosave so I don't have to.
Not Diablo2, where I just respawned
Not Geneforge, if I remember correctly, which autosaved at the entrance to
each map.
In fact, I think I've hardly excluded any, through my dislike of saving!
Arcana Dragon
news:20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com:
> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg
> from Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at
> http://www.avernum.com. It's been selling very well so far, so
> someone likes it. :-)
I'm leeching the demo right now. Interesting.
Damocles
> Lars-Gunnar Hartveit <oopsREMO...@c2i.net> wrote:
> >Then you have excluded most RPG's for the PC I would think.
>
> Not PST, where the consequences of death weren't bad.
That depended entirely on the situation, there were places where death was
quite bad.
> Not BG2/IWD/IWD2, where there's autosave so I don't have to.
The autosave in those games certainly doesn't mean that you don't need to
save manually.
> Not Diablo2, where I just respawned
Ugh, I hated the save system of Diablo 2, where death meant I had to slog
through the same area over and over again. I used to leave the game
minimized on the task bar for days so I wouldn't have to save and force a
respawn.
Lucian Wischik
>Choosing to attack a monster is not instadeath.
If you don't get adequate warning beforehand as to the severity of an
encounter, and it turns out really bad, I think it does count as
instadeath. So too if a series of unlucky dice rolls kills you
irretrievably.
>If the reason you hadn't saved for 4 hours was simply because you never hit
>the save button, then you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Is hitting the save button "fun"? No. Is it part of the immersion? No.
Did I get into computer gaming for the thrill of hitting the save button?
No.
Pretty much every single one of the games I've played over the past year
or so lets me get by without hitting the save button during play. So it's
not unreasonable to expect the same of this one. (Which are they? BG2,
IWD/HoW/ToL, Crimson Skies, Laser Squad Nemesis, Out of this World, Heart
of the Alien, Exile, 3in3, Neverhood, Cosmology of Kyoto, PST, Geneforge,
Uplink, Startopia, Hostile Waters, Episode 1: Racer, Europa Universalis.)
Lucian Wischik
>Lucian wrote:
>> Not BG2/IWD/IWD2, where there's autosave so I don't have to.
>The autosave in those games certainly doesn't mean that you don't need to
>save manually.
Well, it did mean that *I* didn't have to save manually during play. And I
didn't. And I enjoyed it like that.
Mark Sidarous
> Is it part of the immersion? No.
Is dying, leaving the computer, coming back the next day and starting
where you were before you died immersion? No.
--
Mark
Lucian Wischik
>Is dying, leaving the computer, coming back the next day and starting
>where you were before you died immersion? No.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that, we can't achieve
perfect immersion, we shouldn't even try to avoid non-immersive things
(like clicking the save button every so often)? That'd be weird.
Joeaverage
> I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
> will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
> within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
> save was four hours ago.
>
Just curious - what exactly was this fight against? I have no idea what
you're talking about...the only fight I remember as a death-trap was the
ogre/slith stuff up near Erika's tower.
Lucian Wischik
>> their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked.
>you're talking about...the only fight I remember as a death-trap was the
>ogre/slith stuff up near Erika's tower.
There's a city with a weird building to its northwest, and a cat-person
who asks you for help finding his cows, and a boat. I forget the
name of the city. It's westish in Upper Avernum, about half way
north/south.
Pretty much due west of here, maybe just a little bit north, is a short
tunnel with the picture of a house in it. It says, "Mostly the mrrr have
learnt to live with humans but unfortunately some of them still attack and
eat them."
You won't remember it as a death-trap, because it wasn't. At least, the
next two times I replayed the battle, I defeated them fairly easily, even
using exactly the same tactics. I think it was just unlucky die rolls that
killed me the first time.
Gerry Quinn
>
>Ugh, I hated the save system of Diablo 2, where death meant I had to slog
>through the same area over and over again. I used to leave the game
>minimized on the task bar for days so I wouldn't have to save and force a
>respawn.
Funny, I used to always quit so I still had my stuff! The loss
of gold (mostly for the hireling) was never a big deal. Usually you
weren't too far from a waypoint when you died anyway. The trick is to
play cautiously until you find the waypoint....
- Gerry Quinn
Gerry Quinn
>
>You won't remember it as a death-trap, because it wasn't. At least, the
>next two times I replayed the battle, I defeated them fairly easily, even
>using exactly the same tactics. I think it was just unlucky die rolls that
>killed me the first time.
POSSIBLE COMBAT SPOILER
SPOILER SPACE
SPOILER SPACE
SPOILER SPACE
I played Exile 3. Although I didn't finish it, I found that a Null Bug
in a Soul Gem was enough to wipe the floor with magic using enemies.
They are hard to trap but once you've got one you can silence magic
users anytime. Theoretically, this might be considered an exploit,
though, as surely the bug should nullify the gem magic...
- Gerry Quinn
Hong Ooi
>From: ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik)
><<I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
>their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
>will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died within
>two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last save was four
>hours ago.>>
>
>I've been writing these games for eight years, and I must confess this is the
>first time I've ever gotten a complaint like this. I suspect most people save
>more often than every four hours. :-)
Lucian has a phobia against saves. He does not know the power of the 10th
level spell combo, save/restore game. ;p
--
Hong Ooi | "I go either way."
ho...@zipworld.com.au | -- SW
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ |
Sydney, Australia |
Damocles
"Gerry Quinn" <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:n3Dp9.20989$zX3....@news.indigo.ie...
Yes, but there were certain areas like the Jungle that I never wanted to
repeat...hated those nasty little dolls that were hard to target.
Falkentyne
enlightened us by scribbling this gem of wisdom:
>I'm playing Avernum3, exploring upper avernum, spotted some cat-beasts in
>their cave somewhere to the west, and attacked. The help text said "it
>will be a tough fight but you should be okay." Well, I wasn't, and died
>within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and my last
>save was four hours ago.
>
>That sucks!
>
>Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
>instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
>possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
>Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
Well, I hate to say this, but that is really your fault.
People didn't complain when the Ultimas (all of them, except for IX?)
didn't have ANY auto saving at all. Ditto for Wizardry and Might and
Magic. Based on how you feel, I'm surprised these games even sold
well at all.
Remember the first rule of old school RPG's: Save early, Save often,
Save a lot.
You can't blame the game designers (especially of shareware RPG's) for
you having such a crutch for the latest and greatest RPG's....
let this be a lesson learned.
Three rings for the Elven kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarven lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
-Falkentyne Dragon
Spiderweb Software
<<Just translate the pitious whining to a request for an autosave feature. :)>>
About this, there is a legitimate point. I should have put an autosave in
Avernum 3. While I'm not sure if I'll go back and retrofit one, I'll certainly
plan to fit one in Blades of Avernum.
- Jeff Vogel
Spiderweb Software, Inc.
Award-winning fantasy role-playing games for Windows and Macintosh.
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com
Spiderweb Software
<<Are you rich yet?>>
Sadly, no. However, we have been doing very well. We do sell enough of our
games to support 3 full-time employees (and the standard network of
freelancers). Sales are definitely high enough to motivate us to keep putting
out the games.
I am very happy about it. I have grown fond of working in my basement.
Spiderweb Software
<<I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that, we can't achieve
perfect immersion, we shouldn't even try to avoid non-immersive things (like
clicking the save button every so often)? That'd be weird.>>
Enough argument! Lucian is right. Autosave is a very good feature. I wouldn't
necessary toss a game in the trash because of it, but Avernum 3 would be a
better game if it had it.
I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
Michael Severance
wrote:
><<From: "Masked Loser" maskedlose...@hotmail.com >>
><<Are you rich yet?>>
>
>Sadly, no. However, we have been doing very well. We do sell enough of our
>games to support 3 full-time employees (and the standard network of
>freelancers). Sales are definitely high enough to motivate us to keep putting
>out the games.
>
>I am very happy about it. I have grown fond of working in my basement.
Just checked out your site (Forums seem to be pretty busy. :)
)...never even heard of Avernum before but I honestly wish you guys
all the best of luck. Its really great to see small software outfits
still in existence and still producing quality stuff.
Oh well..off to download those demos!!
Aristotle
><<From: f...@f.com (Aristotle)>>
><<I'd love to, but a PC game without save anywhere is retarded.>>
>
>
>My games are always save anywhere. I agree with you ... save points are a
>terrible design choice. That is why I sort of wish you had taken a moment to
>check out my games before you accused me of making them that way.
>
>Actually, to be honest, my games aren't truly save anywhere. You can't save
>during combat. That means that, at a given point, you might be as far as 1 or 2
>minutes from being able to save. Not ideal, I admit, but not horribly onerous
>either.
That's sounds interesting. I think I am going to try it out.
My mistake was assuming the original poster was not a complete idiot.
It turns out he was complaining that since he didn't have the brains to save
periodically, and went 4 hours without saving, he was mad that the game didn't
save FOR HIM. *BOGGLE*
-Aristotle@Threshold
--
THRESHOLD RPG - Where Roleplaying is not an option, it's a requirement.
Player run clans, guilds, legal system, economy, religions, nobility, and
more. Roleplay online with thousands of people from all over the world.
http://www.threshold-rpg.com -**- telnet://threshold-rpg.com:23
Aristotle
>Aristotle wrote:
>> Sorry, I'm not 15 anymore. I have more going on in my life than playing
>> computer or console games.
>>
>
>I think you misunderstood the original poster.
>HE didnt save , something which is explained to you, when you start the game:
>save, save, save.
>The fact the game doesnt save for you, doesnt mean you cant save yourself.
You are right. I did not understand the original poster. I could not actually
believe that someone would be so incredibly stupid as to come onto usenet and
complain to the GAME DEVELOPER about his own personal stupidity for not
saving.
Aristotle
>Is hitting the save button "fun"? No. Is it part of the immersion? No.
>
>Did I get into computer gaming for the thrill of hitting the save button?
>No.
Is using a keyboard part of the immersion?
What the hell kind of point do you think you are making. Computer games have
had SAVE buttons for about 20 years. They have no effect one way or another on
fun or immersion (except for the fact that the LACK of save button has a
severely deleterious effect on fun).
You need to get a better argument because what you just sputtered out there
made NO SENSE at all.
>Pretty much every single one of the games I've played over the past year
>or so lets me get by without hitting the save button during play.
So because other games hold your hand like a baby, this one should to?
You are really a whiner.
Aristotle
>ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
>> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
>> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
>> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
>>
>
Personally, I think more game developers need to program AUTOPLAY and forget
about auto save.
I am a busy guy. I want to install the game, turn on auto play, go on
vacation, and come back to see my character nicely levelled up to max level
with a quest journal filled with completed quests.
I don't have time to play games or think when playing them. I've got all this
computer processing power, shouldn't the computer just beat the game for me?
Aristotle
>I could have avoided it through tedious administrative chores like saving
>periodicially and managing my save slots. Maybe tedious administration is
>your idea of fun. It's not mine. Indeed, the act of saving is a bit of an
>immersion-breaker for me.
Jesus christ. Are you like the World Champion of Laziness and Brain Dead
Behavior?
There is nothing tedious about saving your game. I just got done downloading
the demo. Since the game is so low overhead, I have a feeling the save
routine probably takes like 2 seconds.
Do you also consider things like blinking, brushing your teeth, and showering
to be tedious?
Aristotle
>spi...@aol.com (Spiderweb Software) wrote in
>news:20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com:
>
>> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg
>> from Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at
>> http://www.avernum.com. It's been selling very well so far, so
>> someone likes it. :-)
>
>I'm leeching the demo right now. Interesting.
I am starting to wonder if this guy complaining about autosaves was really a
brilliant marketing ploy.
It resulted in me downloading it as well.... =p
hoy.Don...@hawaii.edu
:>
:> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
:> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
:> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
:> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
:>
: Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
He's not asking for a reminder to save, but rather an autosave;
thus, he should next be asking to game to autosleep for him too.
As such, concept of Autosleep is interesting. Some implementation
methods:
Subliminal messages -- sleep messages shown on screen every few
frames; can also be done aurally.
Hypnotic suggestions -- subtly done as part of the game, perhaps
the narrator or a character's repeated line (not unlike the NPCs of
MW).
Knockout gas -- the game, through the DirectSmell API, uses an
expansion card to spray chloroform into the power supply or outlet
fan. Has the buggy side effect of knocking everyone in the room
out. Manufacturers claim it as a feature, since everyone not
already asleep *should* be sleeping.
Direct chemical application -- as part of the REALITY initiative
in the area of force feedback, the back of Logitech mice will
perspire. The chemical cocktail is then quickly absorbed through
the user's skin and into the bloodstream. This was developed as a
painless alternative to Microsoft's DirectInjection Mouse that was
bundled with EverCrack 2.
Although untold millions have been put into the development of the
aforementioned Autosleep methods, none has even come close to the
efficiency of the implementation used in Dungeon Siegzzzzzz...
--
hoy xatx hawaii xdotx education
Lucian Wischik
>I am starting to wonder if this guy complaining about autosaves was really a
>brilliant marketing ploy.
Well, I'm in no way affiliated with the company, but I do feel they
deserve more attention because their games are top-notch where it counts
(interaction, depth, plot). I also wrote a review of their
excellent game Geneforge in this newsgroup a while ago.
But the "save issue" does bother me with Arcanum. So far, every one of my
playsessions has ended because I became frustrated with the distance of my
last save, not because of tiredness or having-to-wake-up the next day.
Lucian Wischik
>There is nothing tedious about saving your game. I just got done downloading
>the demo. Since the game is so low overhead, I have a feeling the save
>routine probably takes like 2 seconds.
My impression is that it's closer to 0.05 seconds to save the game.
>Do you also consider things like blinking, brushing your teeth, and showering
>to be tedious?
Aristotle, your unpleasantness stops you from recognising a legitimate
point. When I play the game, all other actions I perform are within the
game world (inventory, combat, dialog). The save button is the only action
which I have to do that has no parallel in the game world. This is why it
breaks the immersion while the others do not.
Moreover, every playsession so far of Avernum3 has ended for me with
frustration at how far I have to go back to the previous save, even though
I am now saving frequently. Just sometimes I get so engrossed that I
forget. The playsessions have not ended through extreme 6am tiredness,
as they did with IWD and BG2. I think this is a big difference.
Nostromo
>In article <Xns92A3D619A...@24.28.95.190>, Knight37 <knig...@email.com> wrote:
>>ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
>>> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
>>> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
>>> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
>>> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
>>>
>>
>>Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
>
>Personally, I think more game developers need to program AUTOPLAY and forget
>about auto save.
>
>I am a busy guy. I want to install the game, turn on auto play, go on
>vacation, and come back to see my character nicely levelled up to max level
>with a quest journal filled with completed quests.
>
>I don't have time to play games or think when playing them. I've got all this
>computer processing power, shouldn't the computer just beat the game for me?
He, he, he. Can they include an auto-sleep, auto-eat & auto-work plug-in for
my real life? ;-)
--
"The measure of (mental) health is flexibility (not comparison to some 'norm'),
the freedom to learn from experience...to be influenced by reasonable arguments...
and the appeal to the emotions...and especially the freedom to cease when sated.
The essence of illness is the freezing of behavior into unalterable and insatiable
patterns." - Lawrence Kubie
To reply via e-mail *when solicited* and given *express permission*
to do so, please replace 'spamfree' with 'htnirybal'-backwards...
Nostromo
>In article <Xns92A4A76F58DF6ma...@193.88.15.213>, Arcana Dragon <vi...@temple.gov> wrote:
>>spi...@aol.com (Spiderweb Software) wrote in
>>news:20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com:
>>
>>> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg
>>> from Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at
>>> http://www.avernum.com. It's been selling very well so far, so
>>> someone likes it. :-)
>>
>>I'm leeching the demo right now. Interesting.
>
>I am starting to wonder if this guy complaining about autosaves was really a
>brilliant marketing ploy.
>
>It resulted in me downloading it as well.... =p
He, he. Yep, I'm next. Can you drop me an exact direct d/l link - I'm on an
internal-only dial-up rotary overnight (too lazy/tight to
disconnect/reconnect twice) which only gives me access to mail, news & local
web/games. Still, no connection/bandwidth limits >;-)
Lucian Wischik
>He, he. Yep, I'm next. Can you drop me an exact direct d/l link - I'm on an
>internal-only dial-up rotary overnight (too lazy/tight to
>disconnect/reconnect twice)
That's pretty lazy! (almost as lazy as not saving... :)
ftp://ftp.spiderwebsw.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
ftp://www.spiderwebsoftware.biz/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
ftp://ironycentral.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
ftp://ftp.spiderwebsoftware.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
Nostromo
wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:03:19 GMT, f...@f.com (Aristotle) wrote:
>
>>In article <Xns92A4A76F58DF6ma...@193.88.15.213>, Arcana Dragon <vi...@temple.gov> wrote:
>>>spi...@aol.com (Spiderweb Software) wrote in
>>>news:20021010182032...@mb-mv.aol.com:
>>>
>>>> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg
>>>> from Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at
>>>> http://www.avernum.com. It's been selling very well so far, so
>>>> someone likes it. :-)
>>>
>>>I'm leeching the demo right now. Interesting.
>>
>>I am starting to wonder if this guy complaining about autosaves was really a
>>brilliant marketing ploy.
>>
>>It resulted in me downloading it as well.... =p
>
>He, he. Yep, I'm next. Can you drop me an exact direct d/l link - I'm on an
>internal-only dial-up rotary overnight (too lazy/tight to
>disconnect/reconnect twice) which only gives me access to mail, news & local
>web/games. Still, no connection/bandwidth limits >;-)
P.S. What I'll do is drop it to the local ftp server using wget (I have
admin access >;-), advertise it in the local gaming group (+ sister sites) &
then grab it locally from there. Saves my ISP b/width costs for a small
service on my part & we all reap the benefits :-)
Who know Jeff, you may get a few regos - I know there's a lot of rpgers on
my ISP ;-)
Nostromo
Yeah, I'll bite. How about a periodic auto-save like Word/Excel (i.e.
specify no of minutes)? Not that I'd ever compare a SpiderSoft game to those
mega-BSOD-apps! >;-)
Nostromo
>Nostromo <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote:
>>He, he. Yep, I'm next. Can you drop me an exact direct d/l link - I'm on an
>>internal-only dial-up rotary overnight (too lazy/tight to
>>disconnect/reconnect twice)
>
>That's pretty lazy! (almost as lazy as not saving... :)
>
>ftp://ftp.spiderwebsw.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
>ftp://www.spiderwebsoftware.biz/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
>ftp://ironycentral.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
>ftp://ftp.spiderwebsoftware.com/win/Avernum3Demo.exe
He, he. 12,319,603 bytes being slurped as we speak! ;-) I'll be hackin' away
later tonight!
Richard Wingrove
Aristotle <f...@f.com> wrote in message news:utKp9.47360$ne4.39868@fe05...
> In article <Xns92A3D619A...@24.28.95.190>, Knight37
<knig...@email.com> wrote:
> >ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
> >> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting these
> >> instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or make it
> >> possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened to me in
> >> Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue with it.
> >>
> >
> >Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
>
> Personally, I think more game developers need to program AUTOPLAY and
forget
> about auto save.
>
> I am a busy guy. I want to install the game, turn on auto play, go on
> vacation, and come back to see my character nicely levelled up to max
level
> with a quest journal filled with completed quests.
>
> I don't have time to play games or think when playing them. I've got all
this
> computer processing power, shouldn't the computer just beat the game for
me?
>
> -Aristotle@Threshold
> --
Sounds like a call for.... PowerQuest!!
Rich
Lucian Wischik
>Yeah, I'll bite. How about a periodic auto-save like Word/Excel (i.e.
>specify no of minutes)? Not that I'd ever compare a SpiderSoft game to those
>mega-BSOD-apps! >;-)
What I'd like are five autosaves:
1 minute ago
5 minutes ago
30 minutes ago
1 hour ago
2 hours ago
It can autosave every minute, for the top one. And, less frequently, one
of the more recent ones will percolate down to replace an older one.
jmfb...@aol.com
>In article <ao6e9n$7jo$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
(Lucian Wischik) wrote:
>>I could have avoided it through tedious administrative chores like saving
>>periodicially and managing my save slots. Maybe tedious administration is
>>your idea of fun. It's not mine. Indeed, the act of saving is a bit of an
>>immersion-breaker for me.
>
>Jesus christ. Are you like the World Champion of Laziness and Brain Dead
>Behavior?
It's worrisome since he's studying to be in the computer biz.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Gerry Quinn
>"Gerry Quinn" <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>news:n3Dp9.20989$zX3....@news.indigo.ie...
>> >
>> >through the same area over and over again. I used to leave the game
>> >minimized on the task bar for days so I wouldn't have to save and force a
>> >respawn.
>>
>> Funny, I used to always quit so I still had my stuff! The loss
>> of gold (mostly for the hireling) was never a big deal. Usually you
>> weren't too far from a waypoint when you died anyway. The trick is to
>> play cautiously until you find the waypoint....
>
>Yes, but there were certain areas like the Jungle that I never wanted to
>repeat...hated those nasty little dolls that were hard to target.
I had LOD and played as a druid (elemental plus summoning) - molten
boulder was effective, or even fissure. No need to target accurately.
Gerry Quinn
--
http://bindweed.com
Entertainment software for Windows
Puzzles, Strategy Games, Kaleidoscope Screensaver
Download evaluation versions free - no time limits
Christoph Nahr
wrote:
>It can autosave every minute, for the top one. And, less frequently, one
>of the more recent ones will percolate down to replace an older one.
Something just stirred in my memory... Lucian, weren't you once a
vocal proponent of games with restricted saving? :-p
--
http://www.kynosarges.de
morgul12
> playsessions has ended because I became frustrated with the distance of my
> last save, not because of tiredness or having-to-wake-up the next day.
Arcanum?
morgul12
> point. When I play the game, all other actions I perform are within the
> game world (inventory, combat, dialog). The save button is the only action
> which I have to do that has no parallel in the game world. This is why it
> breaks the immersion while the others do not.
Yeah, pressing Ctrl-S once in a while really spoils my enjoyment of the game...
geez
Bob LeChevalier
>About this, there is a legitimate point. I should have put an autosave in
>Avernum 3. While I'm not sure if I'll go back and retrofit one, I'll certainly
>plan to fit one in Blades of Avernum.
I should guessed that you were planning a Blades! Is it being
designed so as to accept scenarios written for Blades of Exile (or
will there be a scenario converter)?
lojbab
Lucian Wischik
>Lucian wrote:
>> But the "save issue" does bother me with Arcanum. So far, every one of my
Oops! Avernum3.
Lucian Wischik
>> parallel in the game world. This is why it breaks the immersion while
>> the others do not.
>Yeah, pressing Ctrl-S once in a while really spoils my enjoyment of the game...
>geez
Morgul12, it's easy for you to reduce every gameplay event to its basic
mechanics and make it sound ridiculous. "Yeah, pressing buttons on the
mouse really spoils my enjoyment". But the fact is that you've switched to
an ontology where questions of fun-ness are meaningless. Which makes it
either a crummy way of looking at games, or a shoddy debating trick.
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
>
>Personally, I think more game developers need to program AUTOPLAY and forget
>about auto save.
You've tried Progress Quest, right?
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say
Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll)
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
Michael Severance <msa...@xfield.com> wrote:
>
>Just checked out your site (Forums seem to be pretty busy. :)
>)...never even heard of Avernum before but I honestly wish you guys
>all the best of luck. Its really great to see small software outfits
>still in existence and still producing quality stuff.
>
>Oh well..off to download those demos!!
Let's download and have a look... hmm, this looks like a fun game.
Pretty big demo area too.
Hey, Phil Foglio art!
morgul12
> >> parallel in the game world. This is why it breaks the immersion while
> >> the others do not.
> >Yeah, pressing Ctrl-S once in a while really spoils my enjoyment of the game...
> >geez
>
> Morgul12, it's easy for you to reduce every gameplay event to its basic
> mechanics and make it sound ridiculous. "Yeah, pressing buttons on the
> mouse really spoils my enjoyment". But the fact is that you've switched to
> an ontology where questions of fun-ness are meaningless. Which makes it
> either a crummy way of looking at games, or a shoddy debating trick.
Do you know how many times you could have saved the game in the time
that it's taken you to post the original message and your gazillion
responses?
Lucian Wischik
>Do you know how many times you could have saved the game in the time
>that it's taken you to post the original message and your gazillion
>responses?
I am saving the game now, fairly often. And yet I still forget because the
plot and gameplay get me so immersed. And then I get killed. And I give up
playing out of frustration at how far back my last save was. Which is why
I'm here posting instead of playing Avernum3. Maybe you think that's a
reasonable punishment for my lack of save-game discipline. I don't.
Knight37
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:59:03 GMT, f...@f.com (Aristotle) wrote:
>
>>In article <Xns92A3D619A...@24.28.95.190>, Knight37
>><knig...@email.com> wrote:
>>>ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik) once tried to test me with:
>>>> Please, please, please, game-designers: if you insist on putting
>>>> these instadeath situations, then either autosave periodically, or
>>>> make it possible to recover from death like in PST. What happened
>>>> to me in Avernum3 was no fun at all and I probably won't continue
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Geez, next you'll be asking them to remind you when to sleep too.
>>
>>Personally, I think more game developers need to program AUTOPLAY and
>>forget about auto save.
>>
>>I am a busy guy. I want to install the game, turn on auto play, go on
>>vacation, and come back to see my character nicely levelled up to max
>>level with a quest journal filled with completed quests.
>>
>>I don't have time to play games or think when playing them. I've got
>>all this computer processing power, shouldn't the computer just beat
>>the game for me?
>
> He, he, he. Can they include an auto-sleep, auto-eat & auto-work
> plug-in for my real life? ;-)
That's what I was thinking. Lets have the game "auto-play" my job and I'll
stick to the game. :)
--
Knight37
Dr. Evil: As you know, every diabolical scheme I've hatched has been
thwarted by Austin Powers. And why is that, ladies and gentlemen?
Scott: Because you never kill him when you get the chance, and you're a
dope?
-- "Austin Powers 2"
Knight37
Knight37
> Knight37 <knig...@email.com> wrote:
>>I can't believe you didn't save for 4 hours and now you want to blame
>>the designer. hahahah. that's funny man. Look in the mirror for your
>>answers.
>
> The fact is, the experience I went through was not fun at all.
>
> I could have avoided it through tedious administrative chores like
> saving periodicially and managing my save slots. Maybe tedious
> administration is your idea of fun. It's not mine. Indeed, the act of
> saving is a bit of an immersion-breaker for me.
>
Heh, hitting a key every couple of minutes isn't immersion breaking. Does
Avernum 3 not have a "quick save" button? Besides, I consider saved-games
to be a part and parcel of gaming, I've done it for years and it's no big
deal. I even LIKE going to save myself, that way I can save at specific
points into special files so I know if I do something I may regret I can go
back to that specific point later.
Knight37
> died within two rounds of combat. And the game has no auto-save, and
> my last save was four hours ago.>>
>
> I've been writing these games for eight years, and I must confess this
> is the first time I've ever gotten a complaint like this. I suspect
> most people save more often than every four hours. :-)
> For those who were wondering, Avernum 3 is the newest fantasy rpg from
> Spiderweb Software. A large demo can be found at
> http://www.avernum.com. It's been selling very well so far, so someone
> likes it. :-)
Jeff, for the LOVE OF GOD, please put an (optional) autosave in Avernum 3
so this thread can DIE! ;p
Furfoot
news:Xns92A5BFD8B...@24.28.95.190...
> Nostromo <nost...@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:
<snip>
> > He, he, he. Can they include an auto-sleep, auto-eat & auto-work
> > plug-in for my real life? ;-)
>
> That's what I was thinking. Lets have the game "auto-play" my job and I'll
> stick to the game. :)
Adventuring party: What fiend do you want us to slay?
Boss: Fiend? I need these reports filed by 10:00.
AP: So you're not being plagued by some merciless evil wizard?
Boss: I'm being plagued by incompetent employees.
AP: Should we slay them?
Boss: Look, where's my District VP? This is his office.
AP: Oh, he was in the Sloppy Dog Tavern last we saw him.
Boss: Sloppy Dog Tavern?
AP: Yes. He said there was much adventure to be had on the third floor of
this building from 9:00 to 5:00 weekdays.
Acid Queen
spi...@aol.com says...
> <<From: "Masked Loser" maskedlose...@hotmail.com >>
> <<Are you rich yet?>>
>
> Sadly, no. However, we have been doing very well. We do sell enough of our
> games to support 3 full-time employees (and the standard network of
> freelancers). Sales are definitely high enough to motivate us to keep putting
> out the games.
Does my heart good to hear you say that. It means that there can always
be excellent single player CRPGs around after the large distributors
have driven themselves into the ground with whiz-bang graphics and no
storyline.
--
AQ
To succeed in politics, it is often necessary to rise
above your morals
Acid Queen
says...
> Aristotle <f...@f.com> wrote:
> >Choosing to attack a monster is not instadeath.
>
> If you don't get adequate warning beforehand as to the severity of an
> encounter, and it turns out really bad, I think it does count as
> instadeath. So too if a series of unlucky dice rolls kills you
> irretrievably.
I hope you never get involved in any kind of car accident. It really
will come as quite a shock to you that you weren't warned beforehand of
its severity. Being as you go on to talk about immersiveness, and all.
> >If the reason you hadn't saved for 4 hours was simply because you never hit
> >the save button, then you have nobody to blame but yourself.
>
> Is hitting the save button "fun"? No. Is it part of the immersion? No.
Is knowing about an upcoming encounter immersive? Part of playing these
games for me is figuring out the best way to prepare for potential
problems. Perhaps you should stick with something less taxing.
> Did I get into computer gaming for the thrill of hitting the save button?
> No.
> Pretty much every single one of the games I've played over the past year
> or so lets me get by without hitting the save button during play.
Then I'd suggest sticking with those rather than demanding every game
comes down to the lowest denominator.
Acid Queen
spi...@aol.com says...
> <<From: ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik)>>
> <<I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that, we can't achieve
> perfect immersion, we shouldn't even try to avoid non-immersive things (like
> clicking the save button every so often)? That'd be weird.>>
>
> Enough argument! Lucian is right. Autosave is a very good feature. I wouldn't
> necessary toss a game in the trash because of it, but Avernum 3 would be a
> better game if it had it.
>
> I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
<groan> There goes the neighborhood!
Chris Proctor
news:MPG.181305b07...@news.alt.net:
> In article <ao6nl9$g7p$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk
> says...
>> Aristotle <f...@f.com> wrote:
>> >Choosing to attack a monster is not instadeath.
>>
>> If you don't get adequate warning beforehand as to the severity of an
>> encounter, and it turns out really bad, I think it does count as
>> instadeath. So too if a series of unlucky dice rolls kills you
>> irretrievably.
>
> I hope you never get involved in any kind of car accident. It really
> will come as quite a shock to you that you weren't warned beforehand
> of its severity. Being as you go on to talk about immersiveness, and
> all.
I dunno. I personally quite enjoy the escapist aspect of computer gaming .
. . the lack of RL consequences makes a nice change.
Chris
Lars-Gunnar Hartveit
"Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y" <lei...@pvv.ntnu.no> skrev i melding
news:ao9tsq$sde$1...@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no...
> In article <p3requklr6lv2l3gm...@4ax.com>,
> Michael Severance <msa...@xfield.com> wrote:
> >
> >Just checked out your site (Forums seem to be pretty busy. :)
> >)...never even heard of Avernum before but I honestly wish you guys
> >all the best of luck. Its really great to see small software outfits
> >still in existence and still producing quality stuff.
> >
> >Oh well..off to download those demos!!
>
> Let's download and have a look... hmm, this looks like a fun game.
> Pretty big demo area too.
>
> Hey, Phil Foglio art!
>
Det er bra saker. Skal få ut fingern og få registrert spillene - Jeff Vogel
fortjener støtte. Ha en god dag.
And for you norwegianally challenged, here's the translation:
"It is good. I'll get around to register the games - Jeff Vogel deserves
support. Have a nice day."
Well, what I really say is: "I'll get my finger out and register the games",
but I don't know if that's meaningful in english :-)
--
Pibbur Dragon -===(UDIC)===- aka larsg (lars-gunnar hartveit)
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jmfb...@aol.com
Acid Queen <acidq...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <20021011192105...@mb-cu.aol.com>,
>spi...@aol.com says...
>> <<From: ljw...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Lucian Wischik)>>
>> <<I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that, we can't achieve
>> perfect immersion, we shouldn't even try to avoid non-immersive things
(like
>> clicking the save button every so often)? That'd be weird.>>
>>
>> Enough argument! Lucian is right. Autosave is a very good feature. I
wouldn't
>> necessary toss a game in the trash because of it, but Avernum 3 would be
a
>> better game if it had it.
>>
>> I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
>
><groan> There goes the neighborhood!
Right. If you see anybody asking or promising for the non-feature,
please remind them to make the autosave an _option_.
E. Deirdre Brooks
>
> > I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
>
> <groan> There goes the neighborhood!
Hyperbole much? I mean, this *is* an SP game. Someone else's use of
autosave isn't going to ruin Avernum 3 or your quality of fun.
--
E. D. Brooks | kalima...@attbi.com | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "By this time tomorrow, we can be doing BODY
SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE." -- Penny Arcade
Lucian Wischik
>Is knowing about an upcoming encounter immersive? Part of playing these
>games for me is figuring out the best way to prepare for potential
>problems.
Yeah, if it were immersive then I'd scout out ahead and I'd have some kind
of inkling about how powerful the opponents were and I'd have heard about
their combat prowess and I'd know something. I could do this in Thief.
That was good design. In other games, the designers designed the story so
that I had been exposed to one or two of the opponents in small groups
beforehand so I knew what to expect. That was good design. In Avernum3 in
this particular encounter they were just an icon with no extra
information, and by the time I had pressed the "move" key it was
irrevocable.
>Perhaps you should stick with something less taxing.
When computer games are made taxing at the expense of fun-ness, then I
stop playing. Fortunately they're never going to be, since then they'd be
called "spreadsheets". I think yours is a silly comment.
Acid Queen
chris_...@hotmail.com says...
I suppose it is a question of each individuals' level of acceptance.
For me, if games are too easy in terms of consequences for actions then
they lose the immersion factor fast. Figuring when I need to save - and
which save (doing a quick save over a previous can get you into real
trouble on occasion) is part of the learning curve and a part of the
excitement.
As BAH said - optional auto-save might serve all interests. But please
don't take away my little thrill because a few people need things spoon
fed.
jmfb...@aol.com
I usually use it as my learning strategy. I hate to do things
over but that's my style ;-). People paid me to do thing that way.
>
>As BAH said - optional auto-save might serve all interests. But please
>don't take away my little thrill because a few people need things spoon
>fed.
I can guarantee you that an autosave will always save at exactly
the wrong time. There's even a name for that Law and its
corrollaries.
Acid Queen
says...
> Acid Queen wrote:
> >
> > > I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
> >
> > <groan> There goes the neighborhood!
>
> Hyperbole much? I mean, this *is* an SP game. Someone else's use of
> autosave isn't going to ruin Avernum 3 or your quality of fun.
As long as I have the option not to.
Acid Queen
says...
> Acid Queen <acidq...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Is knowing about an upcoming encounter immersive? Part of playing these
> >games for me is figuring out the best way to prepare for potential
> >problems.
>
> Yeah, if it were immersive then I'd scout out ahead and I'd have some kind
> of inkling about how powerful the opponents were and I'd have heard about
> their combat prowess and I'd know something. I could do this in Thief.
> That was good design. In other games, the designers designed the story so
> that I had been exposed to one or two of the opponents in small groups
> beforehand so I knew what to expect. That was good design. In Avernum3 in
> this particular encounter they were just an icon with no extra
> information, and by the time I had pressed the "move" key it was
> irrevocable.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but in your original post said you were
reading the help text, so I assume that you were un immersed enough to
go to that? And you made a decision not to save based on that? Now you
are saying that all you did was click on the icon and got killed?
> When computer games are made taxing at the expense of fun-ness,
Whilst I'll agree that people's idea of fun/challenge has very
different levels, I hardly think it is fair to describe these games as
being made taxing by having no auto save.
> I think yours is a silly comment.
That's not exactly a novel experience.
Acid Queen
@hotmail.com says...
> In article <3DA97298...@attbi.com>, KaliMa...@attbi.com
> says...
> > Acid Queen wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll try to release no more games without Autosaves.
> > >
> > > <groan> There goes the neighborhood!
> >
> > Hyperbole much? I mean, this *is* an SP game. Someone else's use of
> > autosave isn't going to ruin Avernum 3 or your quality of fun.
>
> As long as I have the option not to.
Having thought about it - maybe I'm locked in some kind of time warp,
but for me a part of the challenge that the older games presented, and
the sense of accomplishment that is lacking in a lot of the newer ones,
was the fact you *had* to work and think through situations. Saving
strategically is an essential part of CRPGs to me. I can understand
people who play a lot of these half-baked rpg-shooter crosses wanting
auto save, but I'd really like the few traditional games like these
left the way they are.
And I do love these games.
Lars-Gunnar Hartveit
I know this is off topic, and I do not mean to insult anyone.
But, given the subject line, the length of the thread, and the heat of the
arguments, guess what I came to think of?
<fanfares> The Ricki Lake Show! </fanfares>
Couldn't help it.
Ykalon Dragon
Autosaves are optional in nearly all games. If you don't want to use
it don't load the autosave....
--
Things must change. We must re-arrange them
Or we'll have to estrange them. All that I'm saying
a game's not worth playing over and over again
-Depeche Mode The Sun and the Rainfall
Knight37
with:
> Det er bra saker. Skal få ut fingern og få registrert spillene - Jeff
> Vogel fortjener støtte. Ha en god dag.
> games", but I don't know if that's meaningful in english :-)
Crystal clear. :)
--
Knight37
When you look around
You can't tell me honestly
You're happy with what you see
-- Depeche Mode, "Sometimes"
Knight37
> Having thought about it - maybe I'm locked in some kind of time warp,
Lets do the Time Warp again!!!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
--
Knight37
It's just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right.
Put your hands on your hips, and bring your knees in tight.
But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane!
Lets do the time warp again!!
-- Rocky Horror Picture Show
Acid Queen
@c2i.net says...
> > snipping eveything
>
> I know this is off topic, and I do not mean to insult anyone.
>
> But, given the subject line, the length of the thread, and the heat of the
> arguments, guess what I came to think of?
>
> <fanfares> The Ricki Lake Show! </fanfares>
Wouldn't know - never seen it.
Lars-Gunnar Hartveit
"Acid Queen" <acidq...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:MPG.181379552...@news.alt.net...
> In article <hfgq9.7865$TK2.8...@juliett.dax.net>, oopsREMOVETHIS.42
> @c2i.net says...
> > > snipping eveything
> >
> > I know this is off topic, and I do not mean to insult anyone.
> >
> > But, given the subject line, the length of the thread, and the heat of
the
> > arguments, guess what I came to think of?
> >
> > <fanfares> The Ricki Lake Show! </fanfares>
>
> Wouldn't know - never seen it.
>
to see it again. And I've been told Jerry Springer is worse.
Acid Queen
@c2i.net says...
>
> "Acid Queen" <acidq...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
> news:MPG.181379552...@news.alt.net...
> > In article <hfgq9.7865$TK2.8...@juliett.dax.net>, oopsREMOVETHIS.42
> > @c2i.net says...
> > > > snipping eveything
> > >
> > > I know this is off topic, and I do not mean to insult anyone.
> > >
> > > But, given the subject line, the length of the thread, and the heat of
> the
> > > arguments, guess what I came to think of?
> > >
> > > <fanfares> The Ricki Lake Show! </fanfares>
> >
> > Wouldn't know - never seen it.
> >
> It's a once in a lifetime experience, after seeing it once, you don't want
> to see it again. And I've been told Jerry Springer is worse.
Now that I did stumble across a couple of times. Horrible experience.
Worse than the Dukes of Hazzard. American TV is offal.
Spiderweb Software
<<I should guessed that you were planning a Blades! Is it being designed so as
to accept scenarios written for Blades of Exile (or will there be a scenario
converter)?>>
We have started working on Blades of Avernum, an update to our surprisingly
popular rpg system Blades of Exile. it will not be compatable with the old
scenarios, but the scenario editor will include some spiffy tools to port the
old scenarios to the new system.
Considering the large number of really good Blades of Exile scenarios out
there, we want to make sure as many of them can be adapted as possible.
- Jeff Vogel
Spiderweb Software, Inc.
Award-winning fantasy role-playing games for Windows and Macintosh.
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com
Spiderweb Software
<<Does my heart good to hear you say that. It means that there can always be
excellent single player CRPGs around after the large distributors have driven
themselves into the ground with whiz-bang graphics and no storyline.>>
I am sure that there will always be niche-filling folks like me who produce
single-player rpgs. i hope so, anyway.
However, I'm a lot happier with the current state of rpgs than a lot of people.
Since we recently had Neverwinter Nights and some other decent rpgs, I can't
complain too much. It's a far better situation than it was when I startd
writing games.
Plus, you can get Planescape: Torment for really cheap now! Soon, there will be
no excuse for not playing this classic.
Spiderweb Software
<<Saving strategically is an essential part of CRPGs to me. I can understand
people who play a lot of these half-baked rpg-shooter crosses wanting auto
save, but I'd really like the few traditional games like these left the way
they are.>>
I believe that all of my success in this business comes from one simple rule:
Whenever I am given a design choice, I always do what I personally prefer.
Autosaves are good design. They prevent people who sometimes forget to save
(and lots of people do this, including me) from losing gameplay to stupid
mistakes, power outages, random crashes, and so on. I have NEVER lost money by
making my games friendlier to the user.
Will I include a preference to turn Autosave off? Maybe. (Though, since it is
so easy to just ignore the autosaveds game, probably not.) But the more I think
about it, the more determined I am to put them in.
Why didn't I put one in Avernum 3? Sadly, I forgot. Being a 1-person software
company has its disadvantages.
Spiderweb Software
<<I am a busy guy. I want to install the game, turn on auto play, go on
vacation, and come back to see my character nicely levelled up to max level
with a quest journal filled with completed quests.>>
Actually, this exists. http://www.progressquest.com
I can't understand why this game is so addictive.
Also, some consider Dungeon Siege to have an Autoplay feature too.