hot video card

[Peter Huebner]

There was mention about cooked video cards and monitoring programs and
such recently (not sure which group, so I am crossposting), so I thought
I'd chime in with an observation:

The one and only game that manages to spin up the fans on my nvidia gtx
570 is Civilization V. I can play Amalur or Skyrim for hours without
hearing fan noise, same goes for Fallen Enchantress but Civ V gets them
cranking.

I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
TBS game here ...

Does anybody else have the same phenomenon?

-P.

[Ross Ridge]

Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>TBS game here ...

It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
power of your video card. More complex rendering likely to have more
parts of the GPU either unused or waiting. There was a game, I think it
was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //

[David Lamb]

On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>> TBS game here ...
>
> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
> power of your video card. More complex rendering likely to have more
> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting. There was a game, I think it
> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many
FPS as you can manage?

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:14:06 -0400, David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca>
wrote:

Actually in that case, I think those cards that got fried were running
a beta driver that had a bug that prevented the fans from coming on.

So the real lesson there is probably to avoid beta software, and also
that it's foolish to not monitor framerates and component
temperatures.

[Peter Huebner]

In article <3ucpj8pqjafsl53fi...@4ax.com>,
rstow...@gmail.com says...

Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes
of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees
Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after
I shut Civ 5 down.

Slightly worrying.

-P.

[Rin Stowleigh]

70C is nothing to worry about. In fact during gaming that's running
cool by some folks standards.

[Ross Ridge]

Ross Ridge wrote:
> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
> power of your video card. More complex rendering likely to have more
> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting. There was a game, I think it
> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many
>FPS as you can manage?

At least for a main menu or something like that, since 1000 fps is
unnecessary. For Civilization 5 gameplay, you might appreciate its
ability to exploit your video card's full processing power especially
on lower end cards and/or when zoomed out on large maps.

[Ross Ridge]

Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes
>of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees
>Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after
>I shut Civ 5 down.

As Rin said that's a normal temperature for a video card when playing
a game. Depending on your video card I'd only worry if it goes above
80-85 degrees though there are high-end cards were that's normal.

In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
can do to damage your video card. Video cards are designed to run full
out at high temperatures. If there's adequate ventalation in the case,
and it doesn't take much, then the fans on the video card will be able
to keep it from overheating. (Modern cards will also try to protect
themselves from overheating by throttling down and if that fails shutting
down, so you should get some warning before any permanent damage happens.)

[taxalot]

> In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
> can do to damage your video card. Video cards are designed to run full
> out at high temperatures.

Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have
long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill
your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?

-Moa Dragon

[Rin Stowleigh]

I've found electronic components are like a lot of things that operate
best under consistent conditions. In other words if it gets hot and
stays hot most of the time, it's usually not a problem (because
remember most CPUs and GPUs are designed to shut themselves down if
they do reach dangerous temperatures).

But what will kill electronics, and many other things for that matter,
is too much heat CYCLING. i.e. getting hot as hell then cold as fuck,
rinse and repeat over and over. That results in expansion and
contraction of things and that eventually leads to things not making
contact with each other, etc.

This is one reason powering a PC down is often considered harder on it
than leaving it running all the time. In most cases with regard to PC
parts, running a little hot, as long as your components aren't seizing
up is not too much of a problem, because under normal indoor temp and
humidity conditions, the heat cycling is not enough to cause too many
problems during the average lifetime of a PC.

However there are some things to consider like if a fan fails or a
driver has a bug that affects temperature sensing or similar... that's
why I say it's good to always monitor temps. I use a program called
Argus monitor for this. It has good logging and can be set up to
alert you when things get over a certain temp.

[Xocyll]

taxalot <tax...@meh.fr> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

I'm assuming that by BOING you actually meant BOINC.

I do run BOINC 24/365 running Seti, Rosetta, Einstein and Milkyway @home
jobs. 2 of 4 cores are permanently assigned to this and it uses the GPU
when the computer is idle.
It's had negligible effect on heat production.
I do have a full tower case with good ventilation though.
If you have a smaller case with bad ventilation it's possible you could
have issues, but those issues would crop up under active gaming (that
actually pushes the hardware) as well so if you're ok there, you should
be fine.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.

As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread
here
"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
starting on 24 Feb.

Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
Quote;
>>>"...
Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had
no idea
about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their
untimely
died video cards.

So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show
you
FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
In game's video options:
set V-Sync ON,
set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal
range
and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<

@@@mouse@@@

[Ross Ridge]

taxalot <tax...@meh.fr> wrote:
>Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have
>long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill
>your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?

I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in their
servers. One of the things they found was that there wasn't a correlation
between temperature and error rates. Memory DIMMs were as reliable in
hotter machines as they were in cooler ones. Presumably Google used
aquedquate cooling to keep everything below max recommended operating
temperatures, but this suggests going beyond this with extra cooling
won't help your memory.

What they did find was that error rates were correlated with usage.
RAM that was more heavily used failed more often. So at least as far
as the RAM in your PC goes the temperature increase caused by running
instensive computations 24/7 probably won't harm it, but the mere
fact that you're running these computations could have a negative long
term effect.

This doesn't say anything about the other components like your video
card or CPU, so there still may be long term consequences of higher
temperatures inside your case.

[Miles Bader]

Ross Ridge <rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
> I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in
> their servers. One of the things they found was that there wasn't a

> correlation between temperature and error rates. ... What they did

> find was that error rates were correlated with usage.

Do you have a pointer to the paper?

Thanks,

-miles

--
Cat is power. Cat is peace.

[Ross Ridge]

Ross Ridge <rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
> I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in
> their servers. One of the things they found was that there wasn't a
> correlation between temperature and error rates. ... What they did
> find was that error rates were correlated with usage.

Miles Bader <mi...@gnu.org> wrote:
>Do you have a pointer to the paper?

http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~bianca/papers/sigmetrics09.pdf

It's actually a pretty scary article, about 8.2% of their DIMMs had
an error during the study and once DIMM had one error it would usually
have more. Since they use ECC memory, almost all of these errors were
corrected and allowing the server to continue running without incident.
In the average PC without ECC memory these errors would've caused
unexplained crashes or corruption of data.

[PW]

But I have an eVGA (680). Will it work?

[PW]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:13:33 -0500, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:34:10 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, PW
>wrote:

>I'm running on an eVGA 670 all settings max (DX11) and I haven't noticed
>any shuttle launch sounds coming from the fan assembly.
>
>I did with my 470, though. Civ V and space heater.
>
>I will do a temp monitoring run next time I play if you like, pw.


Thanks! I have a desktop GPU widget on my left monitor but it gets
blacked out when I play a game. I did boot up Civ5 and when I quit it
the temp was only in the high 40s. I did not play the game very long
though.

There is an eVGA utility ("Precision") but I need to try it and see if
it is available while I am playing a game.

Thanks Z!

-pw

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:05:27 +0400, PW <emailad...@ifiremember.com> wrote:

> There is an eVGA utility ("Precision") but I need to try it and see if
> it is available while I am playing a game.

MSI Afterburner - that is all you need (it shows hottest sensor out of three on
video card. In my case (5770) - VRAM temperature which is 6-7C hotter than GPU)

--
Andrew Rybenkov

[Peter Huebner]

In article <4b94k8h7evrp7f3jo...@4ax.com>,
zagh...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >-pw
>
> Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>
> Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>
> Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>
> RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>
> OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>
> IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
> test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
> fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>
> Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.


Mmmh, after somebody gave me the tesselation tip on CivV I turned that
off and subsequently the operating temp of the gpu has dropped by 10C.

I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor
installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me,
really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time
being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in
terms of crashes, it's just not funny. Not to mention that scratching
and scrounging for ammo all the time is tedious as hell (no, my toon is
a good shot, but how many 10mm bullets does it take to kill a
supermutant ... 1 mag at least.

-P.

[Xocyll]

Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>In article <4b94k8h7evrp7f3jo...@4ax.com>,
>zagh...@hotmail.com says...
>> >
>> >-pw
>>
>> Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>>
>> Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>>
>> Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>>
>> RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>>
>> OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>>
>> IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
>> test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
>> fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>>
>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>>
>> Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.
>
>
>Mmmh, after somebody gave me the tesselation tip on CivV I turned that
>off and subsequently the operating temp of the gpu has dropped by 10C.
>
>I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor
>installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me,
>really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time
>being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in
>terms of crashes, it's just not funny.

Quite odd.
Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?

I used a few mods and the game remained pretty stable for me, just the
odd blue-moon crash, but certainly nothing regular.

>Not to mention that scratching
>and scrounging for ammo all the time is tedious as hell (no, my toon is
>a good shot, but how many 10mm bullets does it take to kill a
>supermutant ... 1 mag at least.

Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
character skills and if you are using the VATS.
Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
required.
The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
is so very very important if you want quick kills.

I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.
Very good for sniping, both with VATS or manually (I could shoot
manually from longer distances than VATS would allow.)

[Miles Bader]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in
>>terms of crashes, it's just not funny.
>
> Quite odd.
> Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?
>
> I used a few mods and the game remained pretty stable for me, just the
> odd blue-moon crash, but certainly nothing regular.

FWIW, on the PS3 I had a similar experience to yours:

There are definitely a few bugs, including some hanging bugs (and a
very annoying "can't finish, hope you have some pretty old saves" bug
in mothership zeta), but FO3 seems pretty average in terms of bugs.

Consider the complexity, it's not really too bad I'd say -- it
certainly didn't seem buggy enough to detract from the fun (and it's a
super fun game).

>> Not to mention that scratching and scrounging for ammo all the time
>> is tedious as hell (no, my toon is a good shot, but how many 10mm
>> bullets does it take to kill a supermutant ... 1 mag at least.
>
> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on
> your character skills and if you are using the VATS. Headshots if
> you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits required.
> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world -
> accuracy is so very very important if you want quick kills.

Yeah ammo can be an issue in the early game but it sorts itself out
eventually.

A good source of ammo and weapons in the early game is the super
mutants themselves, as most of them are carrying hunting rifles, which
are a decent weapon that doesn't use lots of ammo to get the job done.

-miles

--
永日の　澄んだ紺から　永遠へ

[Peter Huebner]

In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a...@4ax.com>,
Xoc...@kingston.net says...

> >
> >I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor
> >installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me,
> >really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time
> >being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in
> >terms of crashes, it's just not funny.
>
> Quite odd.
> Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?

It's been a bloody saga.

First after install the game would always crash on startup (before I had
a savegame).

Reset computer - copy protection wouldn't let the game start, starforce
I think, didn't like my blueray drive, crazy head hammering in there ...
downloaded hacked nocd patch ..

Crash due to some .dll pointer not working was next. Google. Downloaded
and installed FOMM (fallout mod manager) and used it to create a fake
.dll file.

Game started, but crashed again during new game setup.
Google.
found the info about smartdoctor. Uninstalled that, and, for the first
time, I actually got through to the tutorial. I've still had the odd
moment - black screen during load, or complete freeze a few seconds
after zoning. Funnily enough, it's getting less frequent with the
crashes: I've managed to play 5 hours or so today without a crash.

I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
meantime.

> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
> character skills and if you are using the VATS.
> Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
> required.
> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
> is so very very important if you want quick kills.

Yes, I am very familiar with the headshot thing. In the original fallout
I built a character that could shoot the eye off a fly on the wall from
50m away or more {grin}. I haven't used the vats much for sniping yet. I
found the easteregg sniper rifle outside Megaton, so I'm just getting my
hand in there. Some friendly raiders in the supermarket donated a couple
of assault rifles for mid-range combat also. But I haven't really left
the environs of Megaton yet with my latest toon (3rd build, and getting
more effective than the first two).

> I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
> hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
> choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.

will keep my eye open for it. Thanks.

> Very good for sniping, both with VATS or manually (I could shoot
> manually from longer distances than VATS would allow.)
>
> Xocyll

-P.

[Xocyll]

Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Wow, sounds like you've had quite a time.

>I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
>least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
>meantime.

I have to ask, what GPU do you use?

>> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
>> character skills and if you are using the VATS.
>> Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
>> required.
>> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
>> is so very very important if you want quick kills.
>
>Yes, I am very familiar with the headshot thing. In the original fallout
>I built a character that could shoot the eye off a fly on the wall from
>50m away or more {grin}. I haven't used the vats much for sniping yet. I
>found the easteregg sniper rifle outside Megaton, so I'm just getting my
>hand in there. Some friendly raiders in the supermarket donated a couple
>of assault rifles for mid-range combat also. But I haven't really left
>the environs of Megaton yet with my latest toon (3rd build, and getting
>more effective than the first two).
>
>> I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
>> hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
>> choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.
>
>will keep my eye open for it. Thanks.

Kinda funky that in a post apocalyptic world which includes weapons up
to and including laser miniguns, one of the most effective weapons is
from the 1860s.

Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

[Peter Huebner]

In article <99g6k8d0nh5n4gjd9...@4ax.com>,
Xoc...@kingston.net says...

>
> I have to ask, what GPU do you use?

Asus branded geforce 570 gtx

> Kinda funky that in a post apocalyptic world which includes weapons up
> to and including laser miniguns, one of the most effective weapons is
> from the 1860s.
>
> Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
> doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
> off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

Yes, sniper rifles are very unwieldy close in - as are slow loading
rifles obviously. I don't know yet if they have any good SMGs in this
game for that situation. Even the 10mm pistol can be reasonably fast if
you can avoid getting rocked by a melee attack.
It's a bit unrealistic that in FO3 your character always points the
rifle skywards to work the bolt though. 3/4 of a second and a little
shake would be more realistic. Same with the wobble on the sniper rifle
that just doesn't stop: breathe out, steady yourself just before you
know the target will move into the open and you don't wobble in RL. Just
timing then ... squeeze, don't pull!

As I recall from the first Fallout, the plasma rifle did a very nice
amount of damage that you could only get close to with a good head-crit
(eye?) from a projectile rifle.
Been a long long time since I played that, loved all the Monty Python
allusions/cameos - oh, and of course there was the whale and the
flowerpot as well: Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide.

> Xocyll

[John Lewis]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:42:40 -0500, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>
>Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>
>Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>
>RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>
>OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>
>IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
>test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
>fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>
>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>
>Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.
>

>--
>Zag
>
>No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
>spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

The nVidia 6xx/Titan Kepler series has very sophisticated built-in
power limiting and thermal protection. The card will slow execution
cycles if over-dissipating. Short of capriciously modifying the BIOS,
you should be safe. Try running Furmark and notice the hiccups in the
thermal graph and the FPS slow-down. That's the protection coming into
play. Make sure that the case ventilation iis optimized if you want
maximum performance.

John Lewis

[Xocyll]

Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>In article <99g6k8d0nh5n4gjd9...@4ax.com>,
>Xoc...@kingston.net says...
>
>>
>> I have to ask, what GPU do you use?
>
>Asus branded geforce 570 gtx
>
>
>> Kinda funky that in a post apocalyptic world which includes weapons up
>> to and including laser miniguns, one of the most effective weapons is
>> from the 1860s.
>>
>> Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
>> doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
>> off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.
>
>Yes, sniper rifles are very unwieldy close in - as are slow loading
>rifles obviously. I don't know yet if they have any good SMGs in this
>game for that situation. Even the 10mm pistol can be reasonably fast if
>you can avoid getting rocked by a melee attack.
>It's a bit unrealistic that in FO3 your character always points the
>rifle skywards to work the bolt though. 3/4 of a second and a little
>shake would be more realistic. Same with the wobble on the sniper rifle
>that just doesn't stop: breathe out, steady yourself just before you
>know the target will move into the open and you don't wobble in RL. Just
>timing then ... squeeze, don't pull!

Not really an issue here.
Lincoln's rifle isn't a sniper rifle, it has no scope and it's lever
action not bolt.

See
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lincoln%27s_repeater
for all the details

>As I recall from the first Fallout, the plasma rifle did a very nice
>amount of damage that you could only get close to with a good head-crit
>(eye?) from a projectile rifle.
>Been a long long time since I played that, loved all the Monty Python
>allusions/cameos - oh, and of course there was the whale and the
>flowerpot as well: Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide.

Hrm I don't remember them, but it has been a while since I last played.

[Ross Ridge]

Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Try using http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html.
>
>CPU/GPU and HDD max temp was when you close your software.

This is what I use. Nice and simple and works with just about anything.
It also works on a second display without blacking out.

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

>>"Civ V: all settings on max - 80C"<<<

IMO you shouldn't have to put up with that.
That is CIV V doesn't need or really use that much Graphic card power.
I mean its just a turn based mostly static screen thing.
I can see by comparing CPU with GPU activity that its
not very demanding but inefficient.

Check out the hints re. this & setting 'Fog of War' & 'Tessellation' Low
A hint to use a Frame Rate Limiter to set FPS to 20 FPS seemed
ridiculous to me .
But it does work ok n smooth given the nature of the game
& brings the GPU Temp. down.
Mostly problems with ATI cards .
Installation of the 'Gods & Generals' extension add-on calms it all down
quite a lot more.
@@@mouse@@@

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
> doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
> off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

Yeah, the Lincoln's Repeater was my favorite too. At one point I got so
sick and tired of the inaccurate weapons in FO3 that I hunted down every
unique weapon with zero drift. Really helps tone down the annoyance
factor...

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

I would do that Cooler upgrade for my HD 5870 .
But I've never found one that gives decent - or even bit better than
original-
& the fuss of getting at the thing out of its casing is
(from what guides I've seen) Nightmare.

This is an early HD 5870 with single energetic Fan...
does a good job at high rates..but its the nosiest
thing I've ever had in a computer at 100%.
I'm nearly always inside Headphones when Computer-ing so
noise not a annoyance.

ATI changed the case design to get lower temps with twin Fan.
Wondered when I brought why it was a very Low price ;)
@@@mouse@@@

[Peter Huebner]

In article <mkbfk89tcgmoig2ei...@4ax.com>,
zagh...@hotmail.com says...
>
> With encased cooler cards, that's a scarier option though. Anyone tried
> aftermarket on a two-slot encased cooling card?
>

I put a water-block on my 8800 ;-)

No going to go down the water-cooling route again though, it was an
interesting experiment but it makes things awkward when you have to work
in the box and it's really not THAT much more quiet.

[Justisaur]

On Mar 15, 7:01 am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
> Xoc...@kingston.net says...

> I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
> least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
> meantime.

I strongly recommend using at least the xp mod, unmodded the game is
easier at the hardest difficulty than the easiest because you get more
xp and level faster in the hardest.

Also recommend using a melee weapon to conserve ammo - even if you
aren't good with it, killing the easy stuff with a baseball bat is
good.

Besides my favorite weapon is melee - nothing like killing it with
fire! flaming sword ftw!

- Justisaur

[Xocyll]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Mar 15, 7:01�am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
>> Xoc...@kingston.net says...
>
>> I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
>> least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
>> meantime.
>
>I strongly recommend using at least the xp mod, unmodded the game is
>easier at the hardest difficulty than the easiest because you get more
>xp and level faster in the hardest.

Ahh I'm playing at whatever the default difficulty was.

The only mods I'm using thus far are a custom race mod (smaller
character size and custom faces) and some cosmetic mods.

Downloaded but haven't installed yet a magic extension mod since I'm
finding the number of spells available a bit underwhelming.
Looking at another one that does a complete revamp of the magic system,
but that one I think I'll save for another playthrough.

Really missing the custom spell design of Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion.
Not a real fan of the new, very limited, item enchantment system either.

And what's with having only one ring? Even D&D let you have one on each
hand.

>Also recommend using a melee weapon to conserve ammo - even if you
>aren't good with it, killing the easy stuff with a baseball bat is
>good.

I mostly don't like melee, although a later playthrough I might do it.

I went magic this time - next time will probably be an archer of some
sort. I used a bow a little at the beginning of this character since
I'd run out of mana easily vs some things - and of course it's kind of
hard to get the dragons attention when you only have the original issue
short range spells and it won't come in range.

I loved the crossbow in Morrowind and was quite sad when Oblivion went
bows only.

>Besides my favorite weapon is melee - nothing like killing it with
>fire! flaming sword ftw!

Bah, nothing like killing it with huge gouts of fire or ice or
lightning.

One curious thing I'm noticing - sometimes my enemies seem to get
reduced to piles of ash.
This would make sense were I hurling fireballs at them, but using Ice
Storm????

Oh any comment on the Unofficial Skyrim Patch?
Worth getting, mandatory, not worth it?

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:16:53 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Mar 15, 7:01�am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>>> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
>>> Xoc...@kingston.net says...

>I loved the crossbow in Morrowind and was quite sad when Oblivion went
>bows only.

Incidentally, crossbows are back if you have the Dawnguard DLC.

>One curious thing I'm noticing - sometimes my enemies seem to get
>reduced to piles of ash.
>This would make sense were I hurling fireballs at them, but using Ice
>Storm????

Possibly you were battling a necromancer or somebody who can raise
dead?

If you kill a monster, then it gets raised as a zombie, and you kill
it again (or if you kill the guy who summoned it), it turns to ash.

>Oh any comment on the Unofficial Skyrim Patch?
>Worth getting, mandatory, not worth it?

Definitely worth getting.
Aside from fixing various quest bugs (doors not opening, NPCs not
reacting to your actions, etc), it also fixes less essential problems
such as spelling and grammar, adds in missing conversation options and
fixes bits of the terrain where the geometry doesn't properly mesh.

I also strongly recommend the following mods:
Immersive HUD (automatically hides HUD elements when they aren't
needed)
Enhanced Distant Terrain (improves how the game renders far-away
terrain)
Static Mesh Improvement Mod - greatly improves the models of things
like chairs, doors, etc
SkyBirds - adds lots of fluttery birds, making the world much more
alive
Convenient Horses - improves how horses act
Footprints - PC and NPCs leave tracks in snow, mud and sand
Lush Trees and Grass - makes the vegetation much fuller
Skyrim Flora Overhaul - improves vegetation textures

I also like the Bandoliers/Bags & Pouches mod (adds extra carrying
capacity) and the Wearable Lanterns mod (strap a lamp to your belt).
Not to mention another fifty or sixty mods...

The last of which well explains why my Skyrim rarely runs for more
than 30 minutes before locking up ;-)

[Xocyll]

Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the

entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:16:53 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On Mar 15, 7:01�am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>>>> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
>>>> Xoc...@kingston.net says...
>
>>I loved the crossbow in Morrowind and was quite sad when Oblivion went
>>bows only.
>
>Incidentally, crossbows are back if you have the Dawnguard DLC.

I only just got the basic game, but I will likely get at least one DLC
in future, if not all of them.

>>One curious thing I'm noticing - sometimes my enemies seem to get
>>reduced to piles of ash.
>>This would make sense were I hurling fireballs at them, but using Ice
>>Storm????
>
>Possibly you were battling a necromancer or somebody who can raise
>dead?
>
>If you kill a monster, then it gets raised as a zombie, and you kill
>it again (or if you kill the guy who summoned it), it turns to ash.

Still doesn't make sense for ice to ash something.
In these cases it was a former living critter - a mage or something that
got ashed for no reason.

>>Oh any comment on the Unofficial Skyrim Patch?
>>Worth getting, mandatory, not worth it?
>
>Definitely worth getting.
>Aside from fixing various quest bugs (doors not opening, NPCs not
>reacting to your actions, etc), it also fixes less essential problems
>such as spelling and grammar, adds in missing conversation options and
>fixes bits of the terrain where the geometry doesn't properly mesh.

Noted.

>I also strongly recommend the following mods:
>Immersive HUD (automatically hides HUD elements when they aren't
>needed)

Hud doesn't bother me.

>Enhanced Distant Terrain (improves how the game renders far-away
>terrain)

Possible.

>Static Mesh Improvement Mod - greatly improves the models of things
>like chairs, doors, etc

Could be interesting, although I'm not sure how much this helps since
the existing models don't bother me much.

>SkyBirds - adds lots of fluttery birds, making the world much more
>alive

Could be nice, but I wonder at the performance hit.

>Convenient Horses - improves how horses act

I have yet to buy a horse.
Stole one once a little east of Whiterun, and when I reached that
tower-bridge thing with the bandits and got off to fight, it walked away
back to where it's owner had died.
I went after it, brought it back, then took it into the tower and closed
the door.
Continued killing bandits on both side, came back, and the wonder-horse
had opened the door and left, closing it behind him.

I wonder that the only horses are these big Clydesdale type things -
sure you needed a horse like that to carry a man in a full suit of heavy
plate or haul a cart load of heavy stuff - but the average traveler
would prefer a lighter, faster horse.
Probably a mod for that somewhere...

>Footprints - PC and NPCs leave tracks in snow, mud and sand

Immersive, but I wonder at the performance overhead cost.

>Lush Trees and Grass - makes the vegetation much fuller

Won't be installing this - too damn hard to find corpses outside as it
is - in Oblivion I turned the grass slider all the way off because of
this - was forever losing corpses I had yet to loot.

This is especially bad for me as I've grown rather attached to Ice Storm
and it tends to pick up and throw corpses away from you. Quite some
distance in some cases - even had it throw them around corners and down
halls indoors, landing in some cases a good hundred+ feet from where
they had been.

>Skyrim Flora Overhaul - improves vegetation textures

Could be interesting.

>I also like the Bandoliers/Bags & Pouches mod (adds extra carrying
>capacity) and the Wearable Lanterns mod (strap a lamp to your belt).

Now those sound good, especially the lamp.
Kinda sucks when you're doing two hand magic and have no light source

>Not to mention another fifty or sixty mods...
>
>The last of which well explains why my Skyrim rarely runs for more
>than 30 minutes before locking up ;-)

Yeah, that wouldn't work for me, I tend to dive in and play and come up
for air later on - sometimes quite a few hours on.

I tend to keep my mods limited to things that won't affect performance
much/at all - custom hair/face/clothing/armor/weapons for the player
mods and such. A custom house in Morrowind to store shit and such.

Kind of the problem that things are so complex that mods can interact in
odd ways and really affect stability.

The proverbial house of cards - add one more and *crash* it all comes
tumbling down.

[Xocyll]

Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the

entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

<snip>

>I also like the Bandoliers/Bags & Pouches mod (adds extra carrying
>capacity) and the Wearable Lanterns mod (strap a lamp to your belt).
>Not to mention another fifty or sixty mods...
>
>The last of which well explains why my Skyrim rarely runs for more
>than 30 minutes before locking up ;-)

This may be the wearable lanterns mod.

I downloaded 3 mods, the unofficial patch, the lanterns and a summonable
horses mod.

After that I started getting lockups - total freeze of the machine
forcing a hard reboot.

Disabled the unofficial patch first since it was largest - locked up
again.
Re-enabled it and disabled the horses - locked again.
Disabled the lanterns and I've had only one odd sort-of lockup (saved,
then hit esc to pause the game while I fed the cat and when I came back
and hit esc again, the screen went red and locked up.)

No lockups since.

It's a pity, because I really liked having the light from that lantern.

God I miss the night vision spell from the previous games, and
especially that you could enchant an item with it to have it on all the
time.

The series seems to be getting better and better looking and shallower
and shallower as it progresses. I kinda doubt I'll like the next
iteration.

No stats now, no custom spells, huge numbers of spells from earlier in
the series missing. Damn the Elder Scrolls is getting consolized.