So much for Fallout/GURPS...

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Eric Liebl

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97
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I just read a news article on OGR saying that SJ Games and Interplay had a
fallout and that Fallout (excuse the pun) will not feature any GURPS
elements. This sucks. How can Interplay spend a couple years developing a
game and then get its whole backbone ripped out? I thought Fallout was
supposed to come out second quarter 1997 and now I'll bet the game has to
be completely overhauled to create a role playing system of comparable
quality/detail to GURPS. All they have left is some pretty graphics and an
empty shell of a game. Who comes up with these terrible marketing fiascos?
This is directed toward Interplay's Chris (Stonekeep's Chris, GURPS Chris,
.... ?Chris) I know you have been a regular in this newsgroup in the past
and have been very helpful. Can we get any info from Interplay regarding
this situation, and if it is true, how will Interplay deal with creating a
detailed, realistic, and fun RPG system for Fallout (and all the subsequent
games that were hinted at using the GURPS system)? Also, what does the
release date look like now...I have been seeing magazine ads for three
months and I am beginned to wonder if Interplay has jumped the gun on this
one and it will be long delayed like Stonekeep. This really sounds like
terrible news for Interplay...

Sorry for the rant.
--

^ +~+~~
^ )`.). "May you have fair winds and following seas."
)``)``) .~~
).-'.-')|) Eric C. Liebl
|-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~ eli...@ix.netcom.com
~~~'---.____/~~


Todd A Carter

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97
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In article <01bc17d2$d083c980$ca411ecc@eric>,

Eric Liebl <eli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I just read a news article on OGR saying that SJ Games and Interplay had a
>fallout and that Fallout (excuse the pun) will not feature any GURPS
>elements. This sucks. How can Interplay spend a couple years developing a
>game and then get its whole backbone ripped out? I thought Fallout was
>supposed to come out second quarter 1997 and now I'll bet the game has to
>be completely overhauled to create a role playing system of comparable
>quality/detail to GURPS.

snip

I totally agree. And, not to offend anybody at Interplay, its hard to see
how they could create a system comparable to GURPS, which has been
developed and playtested for several years, in a short time. I was
looking forward to this title with much anticipation, mainly due to the
involvement of the GURPS system. Now, it's just another game.

Hopefully, the game will still be good, and I will not boycott the game.
I am, and expect to be, disappointed, though.

--Todd Carter


steve b./cgs+

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97
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In article <01bc17d2$d083c980$ca411ecc@eric>, eli...@ix.netcom.com
says...

> I just read a news article on OGR saying that SJ Games and Interplay had a
> fallout and that Fallout (excuse the pun) will not feature any GURPS
> elements. This sucks. How can Interplay spend a couple years developing a
> game and then get its whole backbone ripped out? I thought Fallout was
> supposed to come out second quarter 1997 and now I'll bet the game has to
> be completely overhauled to create a role playing system of comparable
> quality/detail to GURPS. All they have left is some pretty graphics and an
> empty shell of a game. Who comes up with these terrible marketing fiascos?

Whoah, that's overstating the case quite a bit.

First, yes Fallout is no longer a GURPS game. Interplay is still working
on other GURPS projects. The lack of a license will not force changes to
Fallout.

Apparently, the game didn't meet whatever requirements Steve Jackson
Games has for the license, so they removed it. Interplay was at our
offices a few weeks ago showing us the game, and there's no need to
panic. It looks pretty good.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve Bauman | sp...@together.net |
| Managing Editor | sba...@cdmag.com |
| Computer Games Strategy Plus| 2 millet st. |
| www.cdmag.com | richmond, vt 05477 |
--------------------------------------------------------------

jay...@pacbell.net

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97
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I just picked up the Lord os the Realm ][
and have not opened it. I want to see the review here.
But i don't seem to see post on in.
Can anyone lead me to the right newsgroup...

Also, I am considering to trade the LOTR2 for the MAGIC
the gathering game. I think its called Battle Mage???

Any respond is much appreciated.

l8rs

GURPS' Chris

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Feb 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/11/97
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Eric Liebl (eli...@ix.netcom.com) probably wrote:
: I just read a news article on OGR saying that SJ Games and Interplay had a

: fallout and that Fallout (excuse the pun) will not feature any GURPS
: elements. This sucks. How can Interplay spend a couple years developing a
: game and then get its whole backbone ripped out? I thought Fallout was
: supposed to come out second quarter 1997 and now I'll bet the game has to
: be completely overhauled to create a role playing system of comparable
: quality/detail to GURPS. All they have left is some pretty graphics and an
: empty shell of a game. Who comes up with these terrible marketing fiascos?

The reason for the split was mutual. I personally wish that we
could have come to an agreement, but it wasn't meant to be.

The game doesn't have to be completely overhauled. Thanks to
competent programmers planning to reuse the engine in several games, the
engine is separate from the game. We have designed a new engine and are in
the process of plugging this new engine into the game.
The trick will be to playtest and create a quality game engine.
This won't be easy. The whole reason we wanted the GURPS license was to
have a great game engine to work with. As far as I am personally concerned,
there is no better paper and pencil RPG than GURPS.
One strength we do have is a team with a long history of RPG
gaming and RPG game design.

: This is directed toward Interplay's Chris (Stonekeep's Chris, GURPS Chris,


: .... ?Chris) I know you have been a regular in this newsgroup in the past
: and have been very helpful. Can we get any info from Interplay regarding
: this situation, and if it is true, how will Interplay deal with creating a
: detailed, realistic, and fun RPG system for Fallout (and all the subsequent
: games that were hinted at using the GURPS system)? Also, what does the
: release date look like now...I have been seeing magazine ads for three
: months and I am beginned to wonder if Interplay has jumped the gun on this
: one and it will be long delayed like Stonekeep. This really sounds like
: terrible news for Interplay...

I don't know about the future of the GURPS license, but Fallout
will be a complex, detailed RPG.
The release date is looking like summer. I don't really have
a better date at this time. We are still kind of reassessing the
current status of the game.
The magazine ads started too early. I complained, but the
wheel of motion was unstoppable. PR and marketing are part of the
gaming world, we have to live with it.

Terrible news? In some ways, yes. Of course it is. The
GURPS license was picked up by Interplay in part due to the team
members _wanting_ to make a GURPS game. Interplay and Steve Jackson
Games could not agree on certain contractual and creative differences.
Fallout will not be a GURPS title. This is terrible.
At the same time, instead of compromising and making an
inferior product -- Fallout will be produced with conviction.
Hmmm. People believing in their product. That's not so terrible.

pax,

--
"Government cannot solve your problems because government is the problem."
- Robert J. Ringer, Restoring the American Dream
Send technical support questions to: sup...@interplay.com
Chris Taylor --- ana...@netcom.com --- http://www.interplay.com/gurps

Joshua Knorr

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Feb 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/13/97
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GURPS' Chris <ana...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<anarchyE...@netcom.com>...

> Eric Liebl (eli...@ix.netcom.com) probably wrote:

> members _wanting_ to make a GURPS game. Interplay and Steve Jackson
> Games could not agree on certain contractual and creative differences.

Could you elaborate on just what the problem was?
--
"There is only one good, knowledge, and only one evil, ignorance."

- Aristotle

Joshua Knorr

Darin Johnson

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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>> members _wanting_ to make a GURPS game. Interplay and Steve Jackson
>> Games could not agree on certain contractual and creative differences.
>
>Could you elaborate on just what the problem was?

I was going to release a GURPS char generator once freeware, and I got
a list of license requirements from SJG. While it went on about how
they wanted to encourage game utilities, and didn't care about
freeware, the license restrictions were prohibitive for a
non-commercial product. They needed to know how many copies were used
quarterlly and such like that, which I would not know and would have
no way of ever knowing (it probably would never have exceeded 10 users
anyway).

But, none of the restrictions would have been onerous to a game
company. Maybe there's a more restrictive license if you actually use
the logo...

--
Darin Johnson
da...@connectnet.com

Fallout's Chris

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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Darin Johnson (da...@connectnet1.connectnet.com) probably wrote:
: But, none of the restrictions would have been onerous to a game

: company. Maybe there's a more restrictive license if you actually use
: the logo...

We had a special contract with SJG (we still do, actually).

It is not related to the freeware/shareware agreement.

pu...@dragon.com

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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On 14 Feb 1997 19:04:51 GMT, da...@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin
Johnson) wrote:

>>> members _wanting_ to make a GURPS game. Interplay and Steve Jackson
>>> Games could not agree on certain contractual and creative differences.
>>
>>Could you elaborate on just what the problem was?
>
>I was going to release a GURPS char generator once freeware, and I got
>a list of license requirements from SJG. While it went on about how
>they wanted to encourage game utilities, and didn't care about
>freeware, the license restrictions were prohibitive for a
>non-commercial product. They needed to know how many copies were used
>quarterlly and such like that, which I would not know and would have
>no way of ever knowing (it probably would never have exceeded 10 users
>anyway).
>

>But, none of the restrictions would have been onerous to a game
>company. Maybe there's a more restrictive license if you actually use
>the logo...
>

>--
>Darin Johnson
>da...@connectnet.com
Should've released without your name too obviously listed so they
couldn't retaliate. Call it BURPS - Bastardized Universal Role
Playing System. 'Sides if you weren't making money off it I don't see
why they should care. After Operation Sundevil I would've sided with
SJG but seems like they're almost as fucked up as TSR...

Douglas Rener

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:55:58 GMT, ana...@netcom.com (GURPS' Chris)
wrote:

>"Government cannot solve your problems because government is the problem."

What an ignorant statement...
Government is what protects the rights of your Company...


CopeKnight

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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You must not have heard, then, about the problems SJG had a couple years ago
with the U.S. Federal government. I don't recall all the details, but it was
a blatant infringerment of the company's rights. CGW even had a news article
on it.

Carl

**** Carl Lund **** CopeK...@worldnet.att.net ****
Shine forth thou Star of Poets, and with rage or influence, chide or cheer
the drooping stage, which since thy flight from hence hath mourned like night,
and despairs day, but for thy volume's light. --Ben Johnson
In loving memory of Santa Barbara (1984-1993) & Roger Zelazny (1937-1995).

Douglas Rener

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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On Sat, 15 Feb 97 17:27:03 GMT, CopeK...@worldnet.att.net
(CopeKnight) wrote:

>You must not have heard, then, about the problems SJG had a couple years ago
>with the U.S. Federal government. I don't recall all the details, but it was
>a blatant infringerment of the company's rights. CGW even had a news article
>on it.

Yeah I heard about it. Real unfortunate.
What's your point?

Led Mirage

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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In article <5e4rj2$b...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>,

CopeKnight <CopeK...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>You must not have heard, then, about the problems SJG had a couple years ago
>with the U.S. Federal government. I don't recall all the details, but it was
>a blatant infringerment of the company's rights. CGW even had a news article
>on it.

Ahhh...you must be referring to the Hacker raid. That happened quite a
few years ago. Aparrently, the FBI thought Hacker, a card game made by
SJG, was promoting hacking or something. I believe they siezed all the
games and banned them from making it. After a lengthy lawsuit, SJG won
and now they're making fun of it (FBI) as much as they can.

CopeKnight

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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In article <3306af2a...@news.erols.com>, dre...@erols.com (Douglas Rener) wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Feb 97 17:27:03 GMT, CopeK...@worldnet.att.net
>(CopeKnight) wrote:
>
>>You must not have heard, then, about the problems SJG had a couple years ago
>>with the U.S. Federal government. I don't recall all the details, but it was
>>a blatant infringerment of the company's rights. CGW even had a news article
>>on it.
>
>Yeah I heard about it. Real unfortunate.
>What's your point?

My point is that the poster in question seems justified in adding the cynical
comment about government at the end, that's all.

Carl

Justin Martin Anderson

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
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On 16 Feb 1997 03:20:16 -0500, lmi...@interlog.com (Led Mirage)
wrote:

>In article <5e4rj2$b...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>,


>CopeKnight <CopeK...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>>You must not have heard, then, about the problems SJG had a couple years ago
>>with the U.S. Federal government. I don't recall all the details, but it was
>>a blatant infringerment of the company's rights. CGW even had a news article
>>on it.
>

>Ahhh...you must be referring to the Hacker raid. That happened quite a
>few years ago. Aparrently, the FBI thought Hacker, a card game made by
>SJG, was promoting hacking or something. I believe they siezed all the
>games and banned them from making it. After a lengthy lawsuit, SJG won
>and now they're making fun of it (FBI) as much as they can.

It was a wee bit more serious than that. The Gov'ment (can't recall
the exact agency) also confiscated some or all of SJG's computers
(they were being used for "hacking," donchaknow) which contained
development work for lots of things, not just the "Hacker" game. And
it took something more than a year to get this stuff back.
---
Justin Martin Anderson
jand...@mnsinc.com
The Anderson Hypothesis: People are stupid.

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