I just played Ultima 7....my opinions on why game consoles are SO much better....
Ranzer L. Averon
I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
reading, I like to play. I want to kill and get experience points and gold for
it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting. And how come when I do
fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks. I can't keep track of all the
characters on the screen at once. Also, this game is extremely slow on my
486/33. And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
(which I've given up on because of the poor graphics). I want to go
hack-n-slash, kill, and steal anything that crosses my path. I don't want to
worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king, Lord British. Screw him!
Although i think the game suck, there are some good points about Ultima that I
must give it credit for. The graphics of Ultima 7 are superb. If only the game
was half as good as the graphics, then I would like it. I want graphics, not
some stupid story to follow that I don't care about. What the fuck's with
constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat automatically like on
the game consoles I play. What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see
anything wrong with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did. Why
do I always have to light a tourch when I enter a dungeon?! I don't care about
light, I care about fighting the bad NPCs. I'm sick and tired of collecting
reagents for some stupid spells, which isn't graphically pleasing when casted.
The RPGs I play are visually impressive, just like Ultima 7, and should remain
that way. RPGs should have good graphics like Ultima 7 and 8 for that matter.
Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this game's damn
Voodoo memory crap. When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those
game consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually impressive
but too damn short. I don't like being called an Avatar. What the fuck does that
mean. Is it like some ancient name from the game? Why the hell do I have to wear
swamp boots so I won't get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?! Don't you
think that's going overboard with the realism. I walked on swamp in real life,
and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that. Speaking of realism, or
the lack of it, why do my characters never have to sleep yet they have to
complain that they're hungry. Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
there like morons for eight hours? If the game was so realistic, shouldn't my
companions carry a sleepingbag also? And when I DO give it to them, they don't
use it. There are some other things about this game that I DID find better than
most game consoles, the graphics. RPGs are meant to have good graphics!
And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the part where I
have to serach for two people who work for the Fellowship, Elizabeth and
Abraham(I think those were their names). Anyway, why are they always ONE town
ahead of me? A person tells me to goto one town, and when I get there, they're
not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will never do
that to me. They'll never lead me running around searching for someone I can't
catch. And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin? I never understood why
an all powerful demon would need a human to help him out.
Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played Ultima 7 till
it's conculsion. I expect a good ending, but was sorely disappointed. Also, I
could've used some title like "Ultima 8 is better than Ultima 7" but I didn't.
Even though though the Ultima 8 sucked, I did like the music on my scc-1.
One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is the box
nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the artists too lazy or something?
I'm talking about the old box, not the new one.
I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
said enough.
-Ranzer L Averon
Mathias Kimmich
Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
Thirith Dragon
>
Dax Omni
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>line is non-linear.
Big mistake! Most CRPG players WANT non-linearity.
>I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
>I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
>reading, I like to play. I want to kill and get experience points and gold for
>it.
I don’t know how you ended up with an Ultima game, but you’re barking
up the wrong tree for sure!
>RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
In fact, I don’t know how you ended up with ANY RPG.
>And how come when I do
>fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks. I can't keep track of all the
>characters on the screen at once.
Well, at least you’re right about that.
>Also, this game is extremely slow on my
>486/33.
That I can’t explain. It should run fine on a 486/33 - if correctly
configured.
>And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
>(which I've given up on because of the poor graphics).
O.K., only being "good" does suck, but the poor graphics are due the
age of the games. Console carts from that time don’t look ANY better.
>I want to go
>hack-n-slash, kill, and steal
Then you should look elsewhere.
>worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king, Lord British. Screw him!
Uh-oh, you’re right again - and not alone!
>was half as good as the graphics, then I would like it. I want graphics, not
>some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
Again, nearly ALL Ultimas carry story-lines integral to the game
mechanics. You should go back to your console games, or wait for any
SQUARE titles that might be ported to the PC.
>What the fuck's with
>constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat automatically like on
>the game consoles I play.
True, having to manually feed your own party is really stupid, but
they don’t eat "automatically" in console games. That function was
simply never considered - in any capacity.
>What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see
>anything wrong with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did. Why
I’ll leave that issue for others to respond to.
>Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this game's damn
>Voodoo memory crap.
Now you’re beginning to understand why this whole group was formed in
the first place!
>When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those
>game consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually impressive
>but too damn short.
Well, not all console games have decent endings [most don’t], but I’ll
have to agree with you that most Ultima endings do in fact SUCK. I
too feel that after a long, troublesome quest you should be rewarded
with long, thoughtful ending indicative of your task.
>I don't like being called an Avatar. What the fuck does that
>mean. Is it like some ancient name from the game?
This group isn’t an electronic dictionary - look it up.
>Why the hell do I have to wear
>swamp boots so I won't get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?! Don't you
>think that's going overboard with the realism. I walked on swamp in real life,
>and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that.
How can it be over-realistic? You just proved that it wasn’t
realistic at all!
>Speaking of realism, or
>the lack of it, why do my characters never have to sleep yet they have to
>complain that they're hungry. Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>there like morons for eight hours? If the game was so realistic, shouldn't my
>companions carry a sleepingbag also? And when I DO give it to them, they don't
>use it.
Sorry, I can’t answer EVERYTHING! However, I *presume* it has
something to do with deadlines, budget restraints, and human error.
>most game consoles, the graphics. RPGs are meant to have good graphics!
Ahh yes, rule #26 in the "Book of RPG Code and Conduct"
>And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the part where I
>have to serach for two people who work for the Fellowship, Elizabeth and
>Abraham(I think those were their names).
Have??? I don’t recall ever HAVING to search for E&A.
>not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will never do
>that to me. They'll never lead me running around searching for someone I can't
>catch.
Boy, I can tell you’ve been around!
>And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin? I never understood why
>an all powerful demon would need a human to help him out.
Hmm, maybe you should write your OWN game - where everything makes
PERFECT sense and all creatures follow the OBVIOUS rules of world
conquest.
>Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played Ultima 7 till
>it's conculsion.
O.K., and I suppose you’ll keep in mind that many others here have
completed nearly every Ultima ever conceived [15+].
>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is the box
>nothing but black.
It’s because everybody else on earth had something better to complain
about, and OSI tried to work on THOSE problems.
>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>said enough.
I think you’ve made the right decision!
Zoroastrian Dragon
Patrick Conley
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime.
[Idiotic Ramblings Munched]
>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>said enough.
>
>-Ranzer L Avero
This is a troll, right? I'm a sucker for trolls, I admit it.
On the off chance that this is not a troll, please do yourself and us
a favor and stick to console games. It's knee-jerk fools and dubious
role-players like you that are dragging the CRPG into oblivion.
Because of the influence of "gamers" like you, modern CRPGs:
- No longer have turn-based combat as an option;
- All resemble Doom;
- Can be solved in less than 20 hours;
- Have plots so linear that I might as well be reading a novel;
- tend toward the single character, instead of the well-balanced
parties of yesteryear;
- emphasize graphics over plot or gameplay;
- include stupid, non-rpg elements like arcade action.
Just play your little console games, and let those of us with IQs
above 100 enjoy games that require some cognitive functioning. That
is, while these games still exist. I fear that they shall soon be
extinct, and games like Hexen will be considered 'complex fantasy
role-playing.'
--
Patrick Conley (palq...@ix.netcom.com)
Formerly (izz...@mvs.oac.ucla.edu)
Today's a day to celebrate, the foe have met their fate.
The order for rejoicing and dancing has come from our warlord.
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 07:57:35 GMT, Mathias Kimmich
<mathias....@sm-philhist.unibe.ch> wrote:
What are you talkin' about?! AOL!!! I don't give a rat's ass about all of 'em
pricks. All AOLers could rot in hell!!! I find it deeply offending that you even
consider me an AOLer.
>Thirith Dragon
>>
>
>
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:06:50 GMT, dax_...@ix.netcom.com (Dax Omni) wrote:
>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>
>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>>line is non-linear.
>
>Big mistake! Most CRPG players WANT non-linearity.
>
That's something I don't want. Who cares about solving puzzles that are pretty
much irrelevent to the game.
>>I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
>>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
>>I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
>>reading, I like to play. I want to kill and get experience points and gold for
>>it.
>
>I don’t know how you ended up with an Ultima game, but you’re barking
>up the wrong tree for sure!
>
I told you, I'm not a troller
>>RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
>
>In fact, I don’t know how you ended up with ANY RPG.
>
Yeah....especially Ultima 7
>>And how come when I do
>>fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks. I can't keep track of all the
>>characters on the screen at once.
>
>Well, at least you’re right about that.
>
Damn right. It confuses the hell out of me.
>>Also, this game is extremely slow on my
>>486/33.
>
>That I can’t explain. It should run fine on a 486/33 - if correctly
>configured.
>
I didn't find anything wrong with the configurations when I check.
>>And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
>>(which I've given up on because of the poor graphics).
>
>O.K., only being "good" does suck, but the poor graphics are due the
>age of the games. Console carts from that time don’t look ANY better.
>
That's not true. Older console games do have better graphics. Older PC games
were so grainy and pixilated
>>I want to go
>>hack-n-slash, kill, and steal
>
>Then you should look elsewhere.
>
I don't like those goddam action games if that's what you're implying.
>>worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king, Lord British. Screw him!
>
>Uh-oh, you’re right again - and not alone!
>
I wish i can hack him to bits and swallow him up!!! That guy pisses me off so
much!!
>>was half as good as the graphics, then I would like it. I want graphics, not
>>some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
>
>Again, nearly ALL Ultimas carry story-lines integral to the game
>mechanics. You should go back to your console games, or wait for any
>SQUARE titles that might be ported to the PC.
>
I might wait for them to come out on PC...but until then, I'd rather play the
games on console.
>>What the fuck's with
>>constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat automatically like on
>>the game consoles I play.
>
>True, having to manually feed your own party is really stupid, but
>they don’t eat "automatically" in console games. That function was
>simply never considered - in any capacity.
>
you don't need to automatically eat on console games because you don't need to
worry about it.
>>What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see
>>anything wrong with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did. Why
>
>I’ll leave that issue for others to respond to.
>
>>Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this game's damn
>>Voodoo memory crap.
>
>Now you’re beginning to understand why this whole group was formed in
>the first place!
>
Of course.
>>When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those
>>game consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually impressive
>>but too damn short.
>
>Well, not all console games have decent endings [most don’t], but I’ll
>have to agree with you that most Ultima endings do in fact SUCK. I
>too feel that after a long, troublesome quest you should be rewarded
>with long, thoughtful ending indicative of your task.
>
That drives me nuts.....it makes beating a game a lot less worthwhile.
>>I don't like being called an Avatar. What the fuck does that
>>mean. Is it like some ancient name from the game?
>
>This group isn’t an electronic dictionary - look it up.
>
You mean it's _actually_ a word.
>>Why the hell do I have to wear
>>swamp boots so I won't get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?! Don't you
>>think that's going overboard with the realism. I walked on swamp in real life,
>>and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that.
>
>How can it be over-realistic? You just proved that it wasn’t
>realistic at all!
>
I think I just contradicted myself.
>>Speaking of realism, or
>>the lack of it, why do my characters never have to sleep yet they have to
>>complain that they're hungry. Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>>there like morons for eight hours? If the game was so realistic, shouldn't my
>>companions carry a sleepingbag also? And when I DO give it to them, they don't
>>use it.
>
>Sorry, I can’t answer EVERYTHING! However, I *presume* it has
>something to do with deadlines, budget restraints, and human error.
>
>>most game consoles, the graphics. RPGs are meant to have good graphics!
>
>Ahh yes, rule #26 in the "Book of RPG Code and Conduct"
>
>>And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the part where I
>>have to serach for two people who work for the Fellowship, Elizabeth and
>>Abraham(I think those were their names).
>
>Have??? I don’t recall ever HAVING to search for E&A.
>
NO SHIT!!! That's why I hate PC RPGs....it's too damn non-linear.
>>not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will never do
>>that to me. They'll never lead me running around searching for someone I can't
>>catch.
>
>Boy, I can tell you’ve been around!
>
>>And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin? I never understood why
>>an all powerful demon would need a human to help him out.
>
>Hmm, maybe you should write your OWN game - where everything makes
>PERFECT sense and all creatures follow the OBVIOUS rules of world
>conquest.
>
I wish I could, but I can't. If I did, i'd make sure it was non-linear, so
people won't have to go around with a thumb up their ass looking for shit that
has nothing to do with the game
>>Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played Ultima 7 till
>>it's conculsion.
>
>O.K., and I suppose you’ll keep in mind that many others here have
>completed nearly every Ultima ever conceived [15+].
>
No, I'm actually proud I beat it. It shows that I have a shitload of patience. I
can't believe I read so much fucking TEXT. It's akin to reading a full fucking
novel.
>>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is the box
>>nothing but black.
>
>It’s because everybody else on earth had something better to complain
>about, and OSI tried to work on THOSE problems.
I guess the box part was goin' overboard with my complaints.
>>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>>said enough.
>
>I think you’ve made the right decision!
Of course. And I plan on being steadfast to that decision also.
>Zoroastrian Dragon
>
-Ranzer L Averon
Stephane Evoy
> On 18 Jun 1996 07:57:35 GMT, Mathias Kimmich
> <mathias....@sm-philhist.unibe.ch> wrote:
>
> >ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
[Ranzer's ramblings rapidly removed]
MK:
> >Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
RA:
>...I find it deeply offending that you even consider me an AOLer.
Gees... This guy can't be for real...
HE JUST CAN'T !
--
Stephane Evoy
Cornell University
-=UDIC=- Luminescent Dragon
Stephane Evoy
> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:06:50 GMT, dax_...@ix.netcom.com (Dax Omni) wrote:
>
> >ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
RA:
> >>I want to go hack-n-slash, kill, and steal
DO:
> >Then you should look elsewhere.
RA:
> I don't like those goddam action games if that's what you're implying.
SE (me!):
Hmmm. You don't like puzzles. You don't like interaction. You don't like
non-linearity. You want to hack'n'slah, yet you hate action games.
Yours is a complex life, isn't it ?
RA:
> You don't need to automatically eat on console games because you don't need to
> worry about it.
SE (me!):
Personally, I prefer to eat on my kitchen table.
But, hey, that's me.
Donn Schaefer
On 18 Jun 1996, Mathias Kimmich wrote:
> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
> >I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
<<<snip>>>
>
> Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
>
> Thirith Dragon
Actually, posting a 'one liner' after quoting an ENTIRE message screams
for an ".aol" in your mailing address.
hehehe
Thomas Harris
In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) writes:
>
> I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
> said enough.
>
> -Ranzer L Averon
Hmmm. I would place your age somewhere around 10-15 or your IQ is
within that range. RPG stands for Role Playing Game this is not hack
and slash. You should look for arcade games not RPGs on the PC this
will make you much happier.
Ronald Ford
In <4q6bmm$r...@moonbeam.aecom.yu.edu> har...@leper1.ca.aecom.yu.edu
(Thomas Harris) writes:
>
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) writes:
>
>>
>> I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I
>>think I've said enough.
>>
>> -Ranzer L Averon
>
>
> Hmmm. I would place your age somewhere around 10-15 or your IQ is
>within that range. RPG stands for Role Playing Game this is not hack
>and slash. You should look for arcade games not RPGs on the PC this
>will make you much happier.
>
Hmmm... I would place my age in that range, as well. Does that mean I
can't play RPGs? Or that I should be compared to someone with an IQ in
the ten to fifteen range? I should go find some wonderful, "complex"
fighting games! Then I'll be truely happy! I'll never have to leave my
computer! Because we all know how engrossing those action, arcade, and
fighting games can be. And confusing. Three buttons to push? I couldn't
possibly play this game. Much too complex. Where's my copy of Pong...?
Brian, Aureliya's Warder
Liron Dragon -=UDIC=-
Kurt Schwind
> >Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
> >
> What are you talkin' about?! AOL!!! I don't give a rat's ass about all of 'em
> pricks. All AOLers could rot in hell!!! I find it deeply offending that you even
> consider me an AOLer.
> -Ranzer L Averon
You act like an AOLer. You smell like an AOLer. You troll like an
AOLer.
Only the domain name has been changed to protect the foolish.
--
Kurt A. Schwind SysAdmin
ksch...@okra.deltast.edu http://okra.deltast.edu
"What is the Nature of God?"
CLICK...CLICK...WHIRRR...CLICK...=BEEP!=
1 QT. SOUR CREAM
1 TSP. SAUERKRAUT
1/2 CUT CHIVES
STIR AND SPRINKLE WITH BACON BITS.
"I've just GOT to start labeling my software..."
--- Bloom County
Winkler Devere Bond
In <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) writes:
>
>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is
the box
>nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the artists too lazy or
something?
>I'm talking about the old box, not the new one.
>
>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I
think I've
>said enough.
>
>-Ranzer L Averon
>
There's a reason some people prefer console games to computer games,
and vice versa. The small amount of memory in consoles does not allow
for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
weapons, which you use to kill harder enemies, getting more gold, which
buys you even better weapons, and this goes in a loop until you have
the very best weapons and can kill the really hard bad guy. In
computer RPG's, however, there is memory that can be used for things
other than graphics, which means more puzzles, more character
interaction, and more world interaction. Consequently, action is less
important, and fighting, etc. becomes secondary. Apparently you are a
more action oriented person, so forget about Ultima and go play Anvil
of Dawn. It's a lot like console games. Pretty pictures. Lots of
fighting. Lots of mazes. I hate it myself. But then I love Ultima.
Especially U7.
-Ophidian Dragon,
Nan Wang
Do yourself, and us a favor, go back to your SNES or whatever and play shit
games like Legend of Zelda.
Andy
Centurion
Ranzer L. Averon wrote:
> I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
> line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
> play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
> nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot...
(major snip)
>...I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
> said enough.
Are you a total idiot? As vulgar as you are and seeing how much about Ultima you
hate, what the hell are you doing here? The UDIC newsgroup is for people who (at
least generally) appreciate Ultima. If you hate Ultima 7 and all the 'lame graphics'
from earlier ones, then I have a suggestion: Go somewhere else. There wasn't one
positive thing you said about the game or any of its predecessors. Did it ever
occur to you while you played the game that it was not going to magically turn into
some arcade game at the end? To finish an involved game you hate doesn't make sense.
I certainly hope you don't want to become a Dragon, but heck, you finished a game
you despised, why not join a club you hate? I bet you didn't even BUY the game. Why
did you even bother posting all that garbage? Do you expect something from us? How
old are you? 12? Ultimas by their very nature require intelligence and problem
solving skills. Thats why WE complain so much about Ultima 8 - it was arcade and it
was Origin's financial mistake. And where do you derive your definition of an RPG?
That means Role Playing Game. A shootem-up arcade game is NOT an RPG. You should
READ about the game before you buy it, or LOOK at the box, or ASK someone who has
played it, and QUIT if it isn't what you want to play.
Centurion
[ Centurion @ The Temple of Mithra ]
[ http://www.cei.net/~bob/index.html ]
[ mailto:b...@cei.net ]
DLRapp
>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
<snipped: a really entertaining post>
I've read some of the responses. This should be fun. You have committed
the "ultimate" sacrilege by daring to make a negative comment on an Ultima
game. Best be ready for the smell of dragonbreath now. You should know
by now that it's only allowable to criticize any game "not" published by
Origin. Other games generally get a healthy discussion of the merits.
Ultima criticism will generate a fair degree of very intelligent posts
from some dragons defending their turf; while some will literally blow
their fuse, call you names, denigrate your parentage, etc. Good luck.
Michael Kozlowski
In article <4q6k4v$8...@spacenns.space.honeywell.com>,
DLRapp <dan....@stpete.honeywell.com> wrote:
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) says:
>
>>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>
>by now that it's only allowable to criticize any game "not" published by
>Origin. Other games generally get a healthy discussion of the merits.
>Ultima criticism will generate a fair degree of very intelligent posts
>from some dragons defending their turf; while some will literally blow
>their fuse, call you names, denigrate your parentage, etc. Good luck.
Contrary to what you may believe, there is no barrier to intelligent
Ultima discussion. Hell, even in rgcu-d, you'll see posts detailing
what's wrong with U7 and U8.
The key word, though, is "intelligent." This post was anything but
intelligent.
No, what really happened here was that the kid posted an obvious
(and poorly-written) troll to an Ultima newsgroup. He got flamed. No
surprise.
--
Michael Kozlowski
mlko...@students.wisc.edu
kozl...@cs.wisc.edu
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk
Adalberto Simeone
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>That's something I don't want. Who cares about solving puzzles that are pretty
>much irrelevent to the game.
First I must congratulate with you , because you're THE perfect
anti-ultima fan..
Fellow Dragons maybe this guy is possessed by some foul treachery
done by the Guardian...
I'm sure that you're kidding...
Maybe you don't care about solving quests that don't need to be done.
But the 99% of the Ultima Dragons care!!
>>>I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>>>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end,
That's the fun!
>Yeah....especially Ultima 7
Maybe , your favorite Ultima should be U8....
>That's not true. Older console games do have better graphics. Older >PC games
>were so grainy and pixilated
Yeah.. Just look at the Master System....
But What the hell are you saying???
And EVEN if there should not be no graphics at all , I would like it!
And I'm not one of that new-age videogamers that like only those games
that are full of Full motion video! I'm 14! And I like the games where
I must think , not just point'n'click!
>>>I want to go
>>>hack-n-slash, kill, and steal
The Avatar (that means "the embodiment of the eight virtues" or (in
D&D) "enlightened man") is virtuos! He DOESN'T steal!
>I wish i can hack him to bits and swallow him up!!! That guy pisses >me off so
>much!!
You can do that.. You must have the Black Sword..
>>>was half as good as the graphics, then I would like it. I want >>>graphics, not
>>>some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
See , Fellow Dragons? He DOES care about graphics...
>you don't need to automatically eat on console games because you >don't need to
>worry about it.
But that isn't realistic!!!
>That drives me nuts.....it makes beating a game a lot less >worthwhile.
But it's the graphic you should care about.. not the end!
>You mean it's _actually_ a word.
It means all that that you aren't!
>NO SHIT!!! That's why I hate PC RPGs....it's too damn non-linear.
THAT'S THE FUN!!!! TO HAVE A NON LINEAR GAME!!!!
>No, I'm actually proud I beat it. It shows that I have a shitload of patience. I
>can't believe I read so much fucking TEXT. It's akin to reading a >full fucking
>novel.
FUCKING TEXT????
>I guess the box part was goin' overboard with my complaints.
It's too difficult to explain everything to you..
Adalberto Simeone -==(U.D.I.C.)==- Avenger Dragon
The Leader of the Dragons Bureau of Investigation - Join us!
Check at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/6598
Matty
Hey, I happened to like "Zelda" and the Ultimas... I don't know why
people get into this "console v. PC" thing. They both have advantages
and disadvantages, and I've found both PC users AND console users are
pretty close-minded about each other (notable exception: when they
own both). I have a PC and a Sony PSX, and I like 'em both. If it's
action I'll turn on the PSX, if it's "other" (strategy, rpg, Win.) it's
the 'puter.
Elvis "Porcine" Dragon
fla...@interramp.com
What's the matter.... Reading to difficult for you?
The main reason why Ultima has gathered such an immense following is the
fact that the game is like a slice of life. Virtual though it may be,
it's more "realistic"(for a fantasy world), and that's why it engrosses
people for days on end. it's like solving a mystery.
IMHO if you don't wanna think then stick to your sega and arcade games.
m People like you are the cause of the lack of REAL in depth rpgs.
Because of this call for graphics and simplicity the majority of rpg's
today are nothing more than glorified adventure/doom games. go back to
playing with your joystick and leave these games to the individuals in
this world who like to dream and have an imagination. Thankyou..
Parafilmus
dan....@stpete.honeywell.com (DLRapp) wrote:
> You have committed the "ultimate" sacrilege by daring to make a negative
>comment on an Ultima game. Best be ready for the smell of dragonbreath now.
>You should know by now that it's only allowable to criticize any game "not"
>published by Origin.
Not true. We don't really care about Wing Commander or Crusader and
criticism of Ultima 8 is actually encouraged.
-Parafilm Dragon
PD Whitman
On Wednesday, 19 June 1996, Nan Wang wrote...
> Do yourself, and us a favor, go back to your SNES or whatever and play
shit
> games like Legend of Zelda.
>
> Andy
Pacman would suit you a lot. Lots of killing other people by eating them,
stealing dots... :)
HA HA HA HA HA
Blackheart Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
Josh LeBow
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 03:04:31 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
wrote:
>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks.
<<Snip>>
In case you weren't aware, RPG stands for Role Playing Game.
You assume the role of a character and exist in that characters's
world. In this case you are the Avatar, not some grunt with a gun.
Part of the Ultima games is being able to "experience" the world of
Britannia. This includes traveling from town to town as you see fit,
conversing with characters about their entire lives, choosing when to
do elements of the various quests, murdering farm animals for no
reason, attempting to kill Lord British, etc..
If any of these elements were missing it would not be an
Ultima game or RPG, just a Puzzle/Action game (Which apperently is
what you are looking for). If this is the case, then please do not
purchase another Ultima game (So we don't have to listen to your
unintelligable babble on why you don't like it!).
Also, never try to compare an older game (Ultima VII was
released in '92 or '93?). For games of that era, the intro and ending
were impressive (At least to me :-) ). If a game runs poorly on a
resonable system, ask for help on how to improve performance (I first
played Ultima VII on a 386/16 w/4 meg. RAM. I did have full sound and
music. I didn't run the best, but it ran....). And using for
profanety for no reason just makes you look stupid (Which you would
have accomplished with out it).
-=(UDIC)=-
Castus Dragon
Wyatt R Johnson
In article <4q77k2$hb...@venere.inet.it>,
[snop]
>It's too difficult to explain everything to you..
Correction: It's too difficult to explain ANYTHING to you.
Detherk Dragon
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <4q5nov$i...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
Well the original post [fully snipped] was one of the most entertaining
I have ever read...
That person was right about many things.. (not the console things of
course, and a linear RPG? pretty scary) but
I think most of the RPG'rs hate reagents.
Why can't Origin stick with the spell system of UW..
With the crappy inventory management, that we always see in Ultimas
, reagents come between the gameplay and the gamer...
IMNHO
----
Noman, used to be LeChuck Dragon
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <4q6k4v$8...@spacenns.space.honeywell.com>,
DLRapp <dan....@stpete.honeywell.com> wrote:
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) says:
>
:>>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
:>>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
:>>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
>>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
>
>
Very entertaining, I must say.
>I've read some of the responses. This should be fun. You have committed
>the "ultimate" sacrilege by daring to make a negative comment on an Ultima
>game. Best be ready for the smell of dragonbreath now. You should know
Hey Averon , count me on your side.. Though I do LOVE Ultima 7 and
I hate consoles..
But some of the things you said (atleast 50%) made sense.
----
Noman , used to be LeChuck Dragon
(Rebel Dragon?)
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 13:41:42 GMT, har...@leper1.ca.aecom.yu.edu (Thomas Harris)
wrote:
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) writes:
>
>>
>> I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>> said enough.
>>
>> -Ranzer L Averon
>
>
> Hmmm. I would place your age somewhere around 10-15 or your IQ is
Obviously, I should consider myself at around that age. I bought Ultima 7,
didn't I?! Jeez.
>within that range. RPG stands for Role Playing Game this is not hack
>and slash. You should look for arcade games not RPGs on the PC this
>will make you much happier.
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:11:32 GMT, jo...@halcyon.com (Josh LeBow) wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 03:04:31 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
>wrote:
>
>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks.
>
> <<Snip>>
>
>
> In case you weren't aware, RPG stands for Role Playing Game.
>You assume the role of a character and exist in that characters's
>world. In this case you are the Avatar, not some grunt with a gun.
>Part of the Ultima games is being able to "experience" the world of
>Britannia. This includes traveling from town to town as you see fit,
>conversing with characters about their entire lives, choosing when to
>do elements of the various quests, murdering farm animals for no
>reason, attempting to kill Lord British, etc..
Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
> If any of these elements were missing it would not be an
>Ultima game or RPG, just a Puzzle/Action game (Which apperently is
>what you are looking for). If this is the case, then please do not
>purchase another Ultima game (So we don't have to listen to your
>unintelligable babble on why you don't like it!).
What do you consider so unintelligent about my post?! I was being blunt. I'm not
going to subtly indicate what I find bad about the game because of fear of
getting flamed.
> Also, never try to compare an older game (Ultima VII was
>released in '92 or '93?). For games of that era, the intro and ending
>were impressive (At least to me :-) ). If a game runs poorly on a
>resonable system, ask for help on how to improve performance (I first
>played Ultima VII on a 386/16 w/4 meg. RAM. I did have full sound and
>music. I didn't run the best, but it ran....). And using for
I guess that was something that I should've considered when writing my post in
the first place. But I didn't.
>profanety for no reason just makes you look stupid (Which you would
>have accomplished with out it).
If not using profanity could help in your views of me, then I won't use it
anymore. Even though I could care less of what you think of me, I will do as you
suggested.
> -=(UDIC)=-
> Castus Dragon
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:13:34 -0500, Donn Schaefer <dsch...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
wrote:
>
>
>On 18 Jun 1996, Mathias Kimmich wrote:
>> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>> >I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
><<<snip>>>
>>
>> Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
>>
>> Thirith Dragon
>
>Actually, posting a 'one liner' after quoting an ENTIRE message screams
>for an ".aol" in your mailing address.
>
>hehehe
LOL. ^o^
I want to sincerely say thank you for the laugh you just gave me after I read
that. I really appreciate it. It helped brighten an uterly dull day I've had. =)
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 20:31:53 GMT, kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Kozlowski)
wrote:
>In article <4q6k4v$8...@spacenns.space.honeywell.com>,
>DLRapp <dan....@stpete.honeywell.com> wrote:
>>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) says:
>>
>>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>>>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>>
>>You should know
>>by now that it's only allowable to criticize any game "not" published by
>>Origin. Other games generally get a healthy discussion of the merits.
>>Ultima criticism will generate a fair degree of very intelligent posts
>>from some dragons defending their turf; while some will literally blow
>>their fuse, call you names, denigrate your parentage, etc. Good luck.
>
>Contrary to what you may believe, there is no barrier to intelligent
>Ultima discussion. Hell, even in rgcu-d, you'll see posts detailing
>what's wrong with U7 and U8.
Too bad there are very few posts. People are too afraid to say what some things
about Ultima really bothers them. They just don't want to be in the same
predicament I'm in right now. There are a lot of things wrong with Ultima, I've
just stepped forward and told told them.
>
>The key word, though, is "intelligent." This post was anything but
>intelligent.
What do you want me to do, go back a rewrite the entire post?! I will still have
the same opinions about it as I do now. All I'll be doing is paraphasing the
words into a more _friendly_ format. I'm not going to change my bluntness
because it offends people. It it does, then they shouldn't be reading this.
>
>No, what really happened here was that the kid posted an obvious
>(and poorly-written) troll to an Ultima newsgroup. He got flamed. No
It is a post! You want me to go out and hire a damn editor to look over my damn
spelling and grammatical errors before I post the message!!! Just be glad it's
understandable. Most of the people here have far worse writing abilities than I
do. Most of the people here with complaints will say something but never back
their opinions up. I did. you have to give me credit for that at least.
>surprise.
>--
>Michael Kozlowski
>mlko...@students.wisc.edu
>kozl...@cs.wisc.edu
>http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 17:16:46 GMT, dev...@ix.netcom.com(Winkler Devere Bond) wrote:
>In <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
>Averon) writes:
>
>>
>>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is
>the box
>>nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the artists too lazy or
>something?
>>I'm talking about the old box, not the new one.
>>
>>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I
>think I've
>>said enough.
>>
>>-Ranzer L Averon
>>
>
>There's a reason some people prefer console games to computer games,
>and vice versa. The small amount of memory in consoles does not allow
>for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
>(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
>are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
>weapons, which you use to kill harder enemies, getting more gold, which
>buys you even better weapons, and this goes in a loop until you have
>the very best weapons and can kill the really hard bad guy. In
What's wrong with that? It makes the game a whole lot more worthwhile than PC
games. On game consoles, you can see the improvement.
>computer RPG's, however, there is memory that can be used for things
>other than graphics, which means more puzzles, more character
>interaction, and more world interaction. Consequently, action is less
Nope, they use all the extra memory to put in dumploads of text!!! They use that
memory on the people you talk to....so they can say a whole lotta more things
that is irrelevent to the quest. I know there are people out there who abhors
reading so much text as I do.
>important, and fighting, etc. becomes secondary. Apparently you are a
>more action oriented person, so forget about Ultima and go play Anvil
>of Dawn. It's a lot like console games. Pretty pictures. Lots of
I never played Anvil of the Dawn. I might give it a try now that you suggested
it. Thanks.
>fighting. Lots of mazes. I hate it myself. But then I love Ultima.
>Especially U7.
>-Ophidian Dragon,
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 18:45:52 GMT, naw...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Nan Wang) wrote:
>Do yourself, and us a favor, go back to your SNES or whatever and play shit
Why do you want me to do that, huh?.....is it because I'm offending you when I'm
trying to get my point across.
>games like Legend of Zelda.
What makes you think I play SNES?! What makes you think I play crap like Legend
Zelda?! Zelda is a horrible game.
>
>Andy
>
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:51:03 GMT, PD Whitman <whi...@gil.com.au> wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, 19 June 1996, Nan Wang wrote...
>> Do yourself, and us a favor, go back to your SNES or whatever and play
>shit
>> games like Legend of Zelda.
>>
>> Andy
>
>Pacman would suit you a lot. Lots of killing other people by eating them,
> stealing dots... :)
>
>HA HA HA HA HA
>
Methinks that people find it funny to ridicule me. Are you so much better than
me that you have to try and degrade me to make yourself so much better. Did you
ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade games
don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider audience.
>
>Blackheart Dragon
>-==(UDIC)==-
>
-Ranzer L Averon
Stephane Evoy
In article <4q7rrj$t...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, no...@purcell.ecn.purdue.edu
(Syed Noman Ahmad) wrote:
>
> Hey Averon , count me on your side.. Though I do LOVE Ultima 7 and
> I hate consoles..
> But some of the things you said (atleast 50%) made sense.
>
Of course. But the other 50 % kind'a spoiled it for him.
--
Stephane Evoy
Cornell University
-=UDIC=- Luminescent Dragon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 14:12:57 GMT, JB...@ix.netcom.com (Ronald Ford) wrote:
>In <4q6bmm$r...@moonbeam.aecom.yu.edu> har...@leper1.ca.aecom.yu.edu
>(Thomas Harris) writes:
>
>>
>>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
>>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) writes:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I
>>>think I've said enough.
>>>
>>> -Ranzer L Averon
>>
>>
>> Hmmm. I would place your age somewhere around 10-15 or your IQ is
>>within that range. RPG stands for Role Playing Game this is not hack
>>and slash. You should look for arcade games not RPGs on the PC this
>>will make you much happier.
>>
> Hmmm... I would place my age in that range, as well. Does that mean I
>can't play RPGs? Or that I should be compared to someone with an IQ in
>the ten to fifteen range? I should go find some wonderful, "complex"
>fighting games! Then I'll be truely happy! I'll never have to leave my
I have yet to find a fighting game where thinking isn't involved. You have to
learn an arcade game just like you do an RPG. But why the hell would you compare
a fighting game to an RPG, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
>computer! Because we all know how engrossing those action, arcade, and
Arcade games are making a shitload more money than PC games. They have a larger
following. Obviously, they're doing something right.
>fighting games can be. And confusing. Three buttons to push? I couldn't
>possibly play this game. Much too complex. Where's my copy of Pong...?
I betcha it's ten times easier to teach a good arcade player how to play PC
games than vise versa. Why, because arcade players develope far better eye-hand
coordination and reaction time. If I sit in from of my computer all day, I
definitely won't get a challange when it comes to that. Also, why the hell are
you talking about arcade games. I was talkin' about home game consoles...not
arcades.
> Brian, Aureliya's Warder
> Liron Dragon -=UDIC=-
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 16:05:51 GMT, dan....@stpete.honeywell.com (DLRapp) wrote:
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) says:
>
>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot. Why are there so
>>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out. And what the fuck,
>
><snipped: a really entertaining post>
>
>I've read some of the responses. This should be fun. You have committed
>the "ultimate" sacrilege by daring to make a negative comment on an Ultima
I know there are a lot of people out there who do feel the same way that I do,
they just too shy to say it. Their too worried about comformity and how it's
supposed to be right.
>game. Best be ready for the smell of dragonbreath now. You should know
>by now that it's only allowable to criticize any game "not" published by
>Origin. Other games generally get a healthy discussion of the merits.
>Ultima criticism will generate a fair degree of very intelligent posts
>from some dragons defending their turf; while some will literally blow
>their fuse, call you names, denigrate your parentage, etc. Good luck.
I have no problem with that. Opinions never bothered me. If it bothers everyone
else, tough luck. Even though I pretty much alone here, I have no problem
fending for myself.
-Ranzer L Averon
Matthias Darkow
Adalberto Simeone (adal...@mail.peg.it) wrote:
: First I must congratulate with you , because you're THE perfect
: anti-ultima fan..
You know what?
This whole thread gives me an idea...
What about an Anti-Avatar-Ultima?
(I liked the "negative One" HTML-thingy...)
Imagine dropping all virtues in an all hostile world.
Wander around, slay somebody while he's sleeping, rob the bank, surpress
Lord British (or put him somewhere he cannot escape).
You final Task would be to enter the Void, challenge and enslave the
guardian and then to destroy Britannia.
And when the smoke clears, the Avatar awakens, screaming...
Just a thought ;)
: And I'm not one of that new-age videogamers that like only those games
: that are full of Full motion video! I'm 14! And I like the games where
: I must think , not just point'n'click!
Alas, this statement gives me some hope that there will be a future containing
some of the old values. Not all is lost...
Schrompf
--
A mother held her daughter | Matthias "Schrompf" Darkow
fifteen minutes under water | Swamp Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
Not to make her any troubles | E-Mail: Schr...@orplid.shnet.org
but to see the funny bubbles | 4da...@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
LEV
->
-> What are you talkin' about?! AOL!!! I don't give a rat's ass about
-> all of 'em pricks. All AOLers could rot in hell!!! I find it deeply
-> offending that you even consider me an AOLer.
->
-> -Ranzer L Averon
->
AOL - what does it mean? Decode, please. I really don't know.
Canus Tesserax
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>>Hmm, maybe you should write your OWN game - where everything makes
>>PERFECT sense and all creatures follow the OBVIOUS rules of world
>>conquest.
>I wish I could, but I can't. If I did, i'd make sure it was non-linear, so
>people won't have to go around with a thumb up their ass looking for shit that
>has nothing to do with the game
Uh, pardon me for asking, but if there's stuff you have to do to finish the
game, how can that stuff have "nothing to do with the game"?
In any event, try Dungeon Hack. Way simple, and cheap at this point (I believe
I saw it for $15 at Walmart the other day). No plot whatsoever--just go kill
stuff.
--
Andrew D. Myers : Canus Tesserax Dragon
andrew...@pobox.com : -==(UDIC)==-
LEV
I agree with Ranzer on Ultima 7 just because:
I've finished and played (don't finished) many RPG, like
Wizardry 7, Wizardry 6 , M&M 4, M&M 5, Angband, Thunderscape,
Anvil Of Dawn, Ultima 8, Stonekeep, Betrayel At Krondor, Genius's
Curse, Ultima Underworld 1, Shadows Of Yserbius, Wasteland,
Treasure Of Savant Frontier, Death Knight Of Kryyn, Dungeon Master,
Dark Queen Of Kryyn, Eye Of Beholder II, Ragnarok, Arena, Eye Of
Beholder III, Dark Sun I, Menzoberranzan, Dark Sun II, Ravenloft I,
Knights Of Xentar (sorry maybe I misspell the name, but I've
finished it for sure), mmm..., Desciples Of Steel, Lands Of Lore,
Star Trail, Dungeon Hack, Wizard, Mordor (share), Exile 2 (share),
Ishar II, Nakhlakh, Blade Of Destiny, Ishar III,
even Druid and Entomorpth (both don't finished) and others.
and I don't like Ultima 7 too. Just don't like.
Nathan Cocks
Trust me.. when you meet one.. you'll know. :)
I went on there once (America On-Line) and most acted like prebuscent
school boys who'd still hadn't worked out what to do with their
erections.
btw: Don't ask how I managed to use AOL while being in Australia... tis
a long and pointless story. :)
Lestat Dragon
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Lestat - Nathan Cocks (1st year law rep at Deakin Burwood)
E-Mail :- les...@netspace.net.au
H/Page :- http://netspace.net.au/~lestat
See me as Knight on:
DARK WEB MUSH:telmaron.com 6250
http://www.best.com/~gazissax/darkweb.html
Member of:
-==UDIC==- <Lestat Dragon>
HTML Writers Guild
@}---'---,--- Happiness is not something experienced,
It is something remembered. ---'---,---{@
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
PD Whitman
> Methinks that people find it funny to ridicule me. Are you so much
better than
> me that you have to try and degrade me to make yourself so much better.
Did you
> ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade
games
> don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider
audience.
That is not my point. My point is, if you do not like ultima,
DON'T FUCKEN PLAY IT
Blackheart Dragon
-==(UDIC)===-
Andrew D. Charlton
>In <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
>Averon) writes:
>
>>
>>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is
>the box
>>nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the artists too lazy or
>something?
>>I'm talking about the old box, not the new one.
This was the original idea for the Guardian trilogy. The first box would
be black (And if you think the artists are lazy, check out the art in the
game), the second box would be red (Pagan, the firey box, the CD version
was not the "proper" box, the real one was just flames with a stone
pentacle in the middle, and Ultima 9: Pagan at the top, no hand etc). The
third box would be blue, probably a blue sky (Kind of appropriate that it's
Win95 only eh?). If you look at Excalibur's Ultima pages, you'll see he
has taken this on board, and shown the non-existant Ultima 9 box.
--
____/\___ | _O_ Erraticus _O_ |"In THIS house we
___/__\__) | | -==(UDIC)==- | | obey the laws of
(__/ \__ | mailto:char...@ihug.co.nz | thermodynamics!"
/ \ |http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~charlton/andrew/| --Homer Simpson
Andrew D. Charlton
>>line is non-linear.
Perhaps you should read a book if you want something linear.
>> I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot.
If you are wandering aimlessly, that is your problem. There are plenty of
things to do in the game, you never have to wander aimlessly.
>>Why are there so
>>many missions I have to accomplish just to help someone out.
You don't have to do these if you don't want.
>>And what the fuck,
>>I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
>>reading, I like to play.
Perhaps RPGs are not the genre for you then, you seem to have a lot of
misconceptions.
>> I want to kill and get experience points and gold for
>>it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
I think that statement better describes Mortal Kombat, or perhaps a war
simulation, RPG stands for Role Playing Game. You take on a role, and you
interact with others. Fighting is a very minor part of any good RPG.
>And how come when I do
>>fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks. I can't keep track of all the
>>characters on the screen at once.
You only need to keep track of yourself.
>Also, this game is extremely slow on my
>>486/33.
Funny, it was fine on my 386.
>> And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
>>(which I've given up on because of the poor graphics).
Hmm. Well, if you don't like being good, you don't have to be. You won't
win the game of course, but you will have a lot of fun. But of course, you
play games to beat them.
>>I want to go
>>hack-n-slash, kill, and steal anything that crosses my path. I don't want to
>>worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king, Lord British. Screw him!
See above.
>>Although i think the game suck, there are some good points about Ultima that I
>>must give it credit for. The graphics of Ultima 7 are superb. If only the game
>>was half as good as the graphics, then I would like it. I want graphics, not
>>some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
Ahh! I see! You want a game with good graphics, and no plot. Might I
suggest a game called "Looking through the photo album". If you keep a
pair of scissors nearby, you can even have the hack 'n' slash you treasure
so dearly.
>> What the fuck's with
>>constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat automatically like on
>>the game consoles I play. What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see
>>anything wrong with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did.
Firstly, you are the Avatar.
The fellowship was a front for the Guardian. Among other things, they
killed people who found this out.
>> Why
>>do I always have to light a tourch when I enter a dungeon?!
Um, is this a trick question? Because there's no sun underground.
>> I don't care about
>>light, I care about fighting the bad NPCs.
You can do that if you want.
>> I'm sick and tired of collecting
>>reagents for some stupid spells, which isn't graphically pleasing when casted.
Well, if you want to cast a spell you have to make the effort. You don't
have to cast spells if you don't want to.
>>The RPGs I play are visually impressive, just like Ultima 7, and should remain
>>that way. RPGs should have good graphics like Ultima 7 and 8 for that matter.
>>Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this game's damn
>>Voodoo memory crap.
Odd, everyone else got sound to work.
>>When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those
>>game consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually impressive
>>but too damn short.
It's not the destination, it's the journey.
>> I don't like being called an Avatar.
Then don't play a game where you are called the Avatar. *sigh*
>> What the fuck does that
>>mean. Is it like some ancient name from the game?
It's explained in the manuals.
>>Why the hell do I have to wear
>>swamp boots so I won't get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?! Don't you
>>think that's going overboard with the realism. I walked on swamp in real life,
>>and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that.
You haven't walked on a Britannian swamp, though have you?
>>Speaking of realism, or
>>the lack of it, why do my characters never have to sleep yet they have to
>>complain that they're hungry. Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>>there like morons for eight hours?
How the hell do you know what they are doing while you are asleep? The
screen fades out, then fades back in again. Why wouldn't they be sleeping?
>> If the game was so realistic, shouldn't my
>>companions carry a sleepingbag also? And when I DO give it to them, they don't
>>use it.
See above.
>> There are some other things about this game that I DID find better than
>>most game consoles, the graphics. RPGs are meant to have good graphics!
That's the third time you've said that, you must really believe it.
>>And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the part where I
>>have to serach for two people who work for the Fellowship, Elizabeth and
>>Abraham(I think those were their names). Anyway, why are they always ONE town
>>ahead of me?
It's called a plot.
>>A person tells me to goto one town, and when I get there, they're
>>not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will never do
>>that to me.
It doesn't surprise me that console games have no plot.
>> They'll never lead me running around searching for someone I can't
>>catch.
Can't catch? You catch them at the end.
>> And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin? I never understood why
>>an all powerful demon would need a human to help him out.
He needed people to build the generators. What made you think the Guardian
is all powerful? He's powerful, yes, but even powerful people can use
allies.
>>Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played Ultima 7 till
>>it's conculsion. I expect a good ending, but was sorely disappointed.
You post to the fan group of Ultima, and slag it off, what's your
diagnosis?
>> Also, I
>>could've used some title like "Ultima 8 is better than Ultima 7" but I didn't.
>>Even though though the Ultima 8 sucked, I did like the music on my scc-1.
So you think U8 sucked as well, so you aren't a troller?!?
>>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is the box
>>nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the artists too lazy or something?
>>I'm talking about the old box, not the new one.
Gee, maybe they wanted the box to have something to do with the game.
>>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>>said enough.
>>
>>-Ranzer L Averon
Yes, I think you have.
Stephane Evoy
>
> I betcha it's ten times easier to teach a good arcade player how to play PC
> games than vise versa. Why, because arcade players develope far better
eye-hand
> coordination and reaction time.
You' re right. MK3 aces would surely be unbeatable at "Chess Master".
zerocks_wears_nosox
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:08:39 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
wrote:
>On 18 Jun 1996 14:12:57 GMT, JB...@ix.netcom.com (Ronald Ford) wrote:
>
>>In <4q6bmm$r...@moonbeam.aecom.yu.edu> har...@leper1.ca.aecom.yu.edu
>>(Thomas Harris) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
>>>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I
>>>>think I've said enough.
>>>>
>>>> -Ranzer L Averon
>>>
>>>
-- much deleted stuff --
>
>Arcade games are making a shitload more money than PC games. They have a larger
>following. Obviously, they're doing something right.
>
Barry Manilow has sold a whole crap-load of albums but that doesn't
make him the ultimate sound of bliss. It just shows that there's a
lot of people with a rotten taste n music. The same thing can be said
about gaming.
Consoles are okay for being consoles. However they will *never* take
the place of computer gaming.
-------
Zerocks Wears NoSox
Dan Curtis
Ranzer L. Averon wrote:
>
> >profanety for no reason just makes you look stupid (Which you would
> >have accomplished with out it).
>
> If not using profanity could help in your views of me, then I won't use it
> anymore. Even though I could care less of what you think of me, I will do
> as you suggested.
Hmmm... If you don't care what we think, why did you post to us? When you
post to a newsgroup, you are posting to PEOPLE. But we do appreciate your
promise to refrain from profanity. It is part of the "netiquette" that the
majority of people here try to adhere to... because those who read our posts
are PEOPLE, and deserve some courtesy. Well, maybe some less than others ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Curtis | My company wants to make it clear that
Lockheed Martin Corp - GES | my opinions are strictly my own,
Moorestown, NJ |
mailto:dcu...@motown.lmco.com | Unless they find I'm making money on them.
Chris Nebel
[Aside to the original poster: I'm not trying to convert you -- I realize
there's pretty much no chance of succeeding! However, this was a good
chance to make some comments about RPG style.]
[Ranting about non-linear game play, side quests, lots of text, and things
getting in the way of head-bashing deleted, and summarized well by
this...]
>I want to go
>hack-n-slash, kill, and steal anything that crosses my path. I don't want to
>worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king, Lord British. Screw him!
Congratulations! You've hit on one of the fundamental conflicts of "what
makes a good RPG"! (Have a kewpie doll.) Actually, you've hit on two --
"head-bashing vs. talking" and "linear vs. non-linear plot." (Have
another kewpie doll!)
Personally, I LIKE having some choices about what to do next, and having
little other things to do that don't have anything to do with the main
plot, and find endless combat (particularly strictly turn-based combat)
rather boring! But that's me. You're pretty obviously in the "linear
play head-banging" camp, which is fine, but you're just not going to like
Ultima much at all. (Actually, you might like Ultima II and III -- III in
particular gives you lots of opportunities to be a rotten bastard.) Other
people (like myself) are more in the "I'm in this for the story, not the
combat" camp.
You get this same argument just in the Doom-style games (I like to call
them "rat's-eye view games"). I've watched arguments go on for months
about Doom vs. Marathon (and more so with Doom vs. Pathways Into Darkness)
-- one side says "Marathon is much better than Doom -- it has a plot; I'm
not just killing things!" The other side says, "Doom is much better than
Marathon -- Marathon's plot just takes time away from my killing things!"
It's a matter of taste.
Ditto for plotting style: I have a friend whose idea of a perfect RPG is
one you can solve by repeated applications of "talk to everyone until
something new opens up." In this type of game, you don't have to read any
of the text, or indeed think in any way. Personally, this drives me
insane -- there's nothing for me to do except slog through a totally
linear set of flags!
I'm preaching the voice of reason here, which is not exactly fashionable
for the Net, so let's move on to some of your more specific gripes...
>What the fuck's with constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat
>automatically like on the game consoles I play.
That was, admittedly, a moderately bone-headed thing for Origin to do, and
it was fixed (or at least improved) in later Ultimas. The console RPGs
I've seen generally don't have food at all, except maybe as an incidental
thing.
>Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>there like morons for eight hours?
Ah, but you don't know that they do -- you're asleep, so you can't tell!
All you know for sure is that they wake up before you do. (Nitpicking
semantics, but I couldn't resist.)
>why the hell is the box nothing but black. I mean come on people, are the
>artists too lazy or something?
Did you read the sub-title? "The Black Gate"? It's supposed to resemble
the Black Gate itself.
>What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see
>anything wrong with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did.
Nothing wrong with the Fellowship??? They're a bunch of self-serving
bastards who kill anyone who gets in their... oh. Never mind, I think I
understand. ;)
Enjoy those console RPGs, I'm happy with my Ultimas!
Chris Nebel "There's a shoe in your glove compartment."
ch...@graphsoft.com "Yes, I know."
"WHY is there a shoe in your glove compartment?"
"So that when people look in my glove compartment,
they will see the shoe and wonder why it is there."
Robert R Cirillo
[pointless rambling deleted]
: it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting. And how come when I do
I'm hoping this is a joke. If not, then maybe you should find out what RPG
stands for. It stands for *ROLE* Playing Game. An actual RPG should be
primarily about character interaction and playing the ROLE of your character.
The fighting, getting gold and experience, etc. are secondary. If you've
ever played Dungeons & Dragons (and I assume quite a few Ultima players have),
then you should know that it and many other similar games are about that
exactly. In fact, the reason that I do like Ultima games above all others
is because they are:
*non-linear
*have detailed game worlds
*have NPC's with a history and a personality
*have an intricate plot
*have a high level of realism (for a fantasy game)
If you want hack and slash, stick to the console games.
Rob (not a dragon...yet)
Ronald Ford
In <4q7dp0$t...@news2.texas.net> rrc...@artsci.wustl.edu (Parafilmus)
writes:
>Not true. We don't really care about Wing Commander or Crusader and
>criticism of Ultima 8 is actually encouraged.
>
> -Parafilm Dragon
You don't care about Wing Commander?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I do! :) The plot's
good, if a "bit" linear... ;)
Anywho... I agree with that U8 comment. :)
Ronald Ford
In <31C6FC...@cei.net> Centurion <b...@cei.net> writes:
<snip!>
>How old are you? 12? Ultimas by their very nature require intelligence
>and problem solving skills.
Argh! What is it with this age thing?! I am only a year older than the
age you stated (which would make me... 13!;), and I like to consider
myself at least semi-intelligent, at least to the point of having
problem-solving skills. Why is everyone hung up on this age thing?! I
guess I am, too, but "you guys started it!" ;) Anyway... I am a Dragon. I
am 13. I have beaten several Ultimas, including the earlier ones which
lacked "fancy" graphics. I did not enjoy Ultima 8, either. I am not
stupid.
Ronald Ford
In <31c79438...@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
>Did you ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of
>arcade games don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a
>much wider audience.
in case you hadn't noticed. But... Even though I am an Ultima fan... I
must admit that all this flaming was pretty much useless. Stupid and
useless. And I just can't believe how many people on this newsgroup have
an age bias! "Oh, he's 14, he must be stupid..." "You must be somewhere
from 11-15, or have an extremely low IQ..."
So being young is thhe equivalent of having a low IQ?
Hmmph.
Matthew Duncan
In article <4q6bmm$r...@moonbeam.aecom.yu.edu>,
Thomas Harris <har...@leper1.ca.aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>In article <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com>
>> said enough.
>>
>> -Ranzer L Averon
>
>
>within that range. RPG stands for Role Playing Game this is not hack
>and slash. You should look for arcade games not RPGs on the PC this
>will make you much happier.
After slaogging throught most of that verbal spooge I'd say you're too
generous. Unless of course it's a troll... but it was a bit long for a
troll. Maybe a new type of troll. Either way Ranzer L Averon has all
the wit and sophistication of a real troll and the social grace of a toilet.
Make that a dirty toilet.
Matt.
--
M. Duncan University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario Canada -------
Email: dun...@psych.utoronto.ca ---------------------------------
Sam
Clip clop clip clop... Who's that under the bridge?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where am I" - Charlie Chuck. s...@beavis.u-net.com
http://www.u-net.com/~beavis/renstimp.htm
Josh LeBow
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:16:02 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:11:32 GMT, jo...@halcyon.com (Josh LeBow) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 03:04:31 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks.
>>
>> <<Snip>>
>>
>>
>> In case you weren't aware, RPG stands for Role Playing Game.
<<Snip>>
>
>Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
>that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
>more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
Part of playing an RPG is conversing with characters and
deciding whether or not what they have to say is relevant. And
because you have the freedom to go anywhere, the game requires you to
THINK (Based upon conversations with other characters) what your next
action should be (I know this is a novel concept, but hey, it might
catch on.....)
>
>> If any of these elements were missing it would not be an
<<Snip>>
>
>What do you consider so unintelligent about my post?! I was being blunt. I'm not
>going to subtly indicate what I find bad about the game because of fear of
>getting flamed.
There is a fine line between being blunt and being obscene,
and you have effectively demonstrated that.
>
>> Also, never try to compare an older game (Ultima VII was
<<Snip>>
>I guess that was something that I should've considered when writing my post in
>the first place. But I didn't.
See above.
>
>>profanety for no reason just makes you look stupid (Which you would
>>have accomplished with out it).
>
>If not using profanity could help in your views of me, then I won't use it
>anymore. Even though I could care less of what you think of me, I will do as you
>suggested.
Again, see above.
>
>
>> -=(UDIC)=-
>> Castus Dragon
>
>-Ranzer L Averon
-=(UDIC)=-
Castus Dragon
Joel E Slovacek
In article <4q9u0c$m...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> no...@purcell.ecn.purdue.edu (Syed Noman Ahmad) writes:
>but things like *food* ,reagents and real time combat hinder gameplay..
>Especially if there is a party of characters with Avatar.
I disagree .. it depends on to what extent those aspects are involved in the
actual gameplay. For instance, if the casting of certain complicated spells
is important to the plot, then by all means, color the world with mystical
reagents and arcane rituals. However, if it takes 5 minutes of keypresses
and a hundred reagents just to cast a Magic Missile .. well .. that definitely
hinders gameplay. The same with food. If the designers choose to make food
an integral part of the game (i.e. you must satisfy the four basic food groups
each day and you can get stronger or healthier by eating certain combinations
of foods, or something along those lines) then it would be a little more
interesting and involved and seem less like a hassle. The way it is now (a la
U7) is a bit tedious because it just becomes a chore: how much jerky can you
carry in your pack?
I think the detail of food and reagents adds to the game, but only if done
CORRECTLY.
--
-=-=-
"Everyone should believe in something ..
I believe I'll go fishing!" -- Sam & Omie's
Paul H.
ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime.
What an odd personal admission. Frankly, I feel mercilessly shackled
when I can't go anywhere I want at any time, and I suspect most
RPGers feel much the same.
> I
>play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot.
This is the crux of your lack of understanding of true RPG gaming.
Most players don't play a good RPG to "beat it", whatever that might
mean. Instead they play the game to lose themselves in an unfamiliar
and interesting world. In many respects, the journey-- the aimless
wandering-- IS the whole point of the game.
> And what the fuck,
>I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
>reading, I like to play.
Well, that's fine, I suppose-- but please understand that reading (for
most RPGers I know) is not only not a chore, but it's such a natural,
almost trivial process, that they don't even realize they're doing it.
You shouldn't assume that your definition of "play" is universal.
> I want to kill and get experience points and gold for
>it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
It's a bit presumptuous for you to define the paramaters of what
constitutes a true RPG, isn't it? Especially when you make the claim
that "RPGs" are not about interaction!" Interaction is at the heart
of a true RPG.
Besides, if you like the fighting/treasure hunt sort of thing, try
Hexen, Heretic, or Witchhaven. While these games aren't really RPGs,
they do have fantasy settings and feature a lot of action.
> I want graphics, not some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
Then stick with your console games, if that's what you want! Don't
blame the story-- there are quite a few people who enjoy the Ultima
universe. You obviously don't, so why torture yourself?
It's like music-- I prefer Clapton to Whitney Houston, but that
doesn't mean that the latter artist's fans are idiots. [ Although they
come pretty close! ;) ]
> What the fuck's with
>constantly feeding those people?! Why don't they go eat automatically like on
>the game consoles I play.
Again, for most RPGers, this sort of thing adds to the game. If you
don't get it, you don't get it, OK?
> Why do I always have to light a tourch when I enter a dungeon?!
Why do you turn on the lights when you enter a dark room? Seems
pretty obvious to me.
>I don't care about light, I care about fighting the bad NPCs.
Fine-- I'm sure you have everyone's permission to flail about wildly
in the dark with your sword.
> I don't like being called an Avatar. What the fuck does that mean.
You have two choices here: 1) Don't play any more Ultima games, or 2)
train yourself to read "Herbert" or "Bill" every time you see the word
"avatar".
As for what it means, look it up in a dictionary and perhaps you'll
see why the Avatar is an avatar. "Avatar" is not a proper name, it's
--- --
a noun which denotes a particular sort of entity.
> Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>there like morons for eight hours?
Maybe they don't. Maybe they just always wake up before you do.
Perhaps they drink too much coffee. Or were you referring to your
real life? If so, I'd find some other "companions".
> RPGs are meant to have good graphics!
Uh, I don't think so. Back in the days of pen-and-paper RPGs, there
were no graphics at all. Unfortunately, though, game playing required
imagination AND reading.
>One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings, why the hell is the box
>nothing but black.
Maybe it had something to do with the Black Gate, eh? Hmmm....
Or perhaps the black box was the RPG equivalent of the "plain brown
wrapper", a packaging method used to indicate the contents are meant
for adults. :)
>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>said enough.
Well, all you've said is that you don't like the Ultima series of
games and you can't understand why others do. Personally, I've never
understood why some people prefer tic-tac-toe to chess, so go figure!
One of the great mysteries of life, I guess.
Before you give up entirely on Ultima, though, try playing Ultima
Underworld I. It does require _some_ reading, but it also has enough
hack-and-slash action to satisfy even the most jaded potential
axe-murderer.
Indeed, if you play the game without mercy, conscience, or thought, it
might even make you feel as if you've come home: nothing prevents you
from killing even the weak and helpless characters-- AND you can
search their lifeless bodies for loot, too!
Yes, I can see you now, gibbering and slobbering in some dark corner
as you run your bloody thumb along the edge of your well-notched axe
blade, dreaming of rape, murder, and swag. Why, you may never leave!
Michael Kozlowski
>Clip clop clip clop... Who's that under the bridge?
"Why, I do believe it's a troll!"
--
Michael Kozlowski
mlko...@students.wisc.edu
kozl...@cs.wisc.edu
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk
Michael Kozlowski
In article <31c79030...@news.ascensionet.com>,
Ranzer L. Averon <ran...@juno.com> wrote:
>On 18 Jun 1996 20:31:53 GMT, kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Kozlowski)
>wrote:
>>Contrary to what you may believe, there is no barrier to intelligent
>>Ultima discussion. Hell, even in rgcu-d, you'll see posts detailing
>>what's wrong with U7 and U8.
>
>Too bad there are very few posts. People are too afraid to say what some things
>about Ultima really bothers them.
Actually, there's no need for conspiracy theories. The simple fact of
the matter is that most people in an Ultima newsgroup are there because
they _like_ the games. People who don't like Ultima simply don't bother
to read the group. It has nothing to do with fear and intimidation;
just lack of interest.
>There are a lot of things wrong with Ultima, I've
>just stepped forward and told told them.
*sardonic applause*
You brave, iconoclastic free-thinker, you! You sure told them!
>>The key word, though, is "intelligent." This post was anything but
>>intelligent.
>
>What do you want me to do, go back a rewrite the entire post?! I will still have
>the same opinions about it as I do now. All I'll be doing is paraphasing the
>words into a more _friendly_ format. I'm not going to change my bluntness
>because it offends people. It it does, then they shouldn't be reading this.
Well, it's a little late for re-writing now, but it certainly wouldn't
have hurt. Here's a couple of hints:
o Use correct spelling and grammar. I mean it. If you can't be
bothered to make sure your post is correct, why should I bother
deciphering it?
o Watch your line lengths. Keep it to 75 characters or thereabout.
o If your goal is to make people think (and not to just annoy them)
avoid using incendiary language. Saying something "sucks" and is
"crap" isn't going to get a lot of converts to your viewpoint.
o And for God's sake, TRIM YOUR POSTS. Keep in only the necessary
context.
>>No, what really happened here was that the kid posted an obvious
>>(and poorly-written) troll to an Ultima newsgroup. He got flamed. No
>
>It is a post! You want me to go out and hire a damn editor to look over my damn
>spelling and grammatical errors before I post the message!!!
If you can't handle it yourself, it may not be a bad idea.
>Just be glad it's
>understandable. Most of the people here have far worse writing abilities than I
>do.
So? There's a lot of people whose posts aren't worth reading.
>Most of the people here with complaints will say something but never back
>their opinions up. I did. you have to give me credit for that at least.
Bravo.
Michael Kozlowski
In article <31c791f2...@news.ascensionet.com>,>On 18 Jun 1996 17:16:46 GMT, dev...@ix.netcom.com(Winkler Devere Bond) wrote:
>>computer RPG's, however, there is memory that can be used for things
>>other than graphics, which means more puzzles, more character
>>interaction, and more world interaction. Consequently, action is less
>
>Nope, they use all the extra memory to put in dumploads of text!!! They use that
>memory on the people you talk to.
I believe that would fall under the aegis of "character interaction."
Want to give it another shot?
Michael Kozlowski
In article <31c79438...@news.ascensionet.com>,
Ranzer L. Averon <ran...@juno.com> wrote:
>Methinks that people find it funny to ridicule me.
Why...I do believe that he's catching on!
Quick, get the camera!
>Are you so much better than me
Yes.
>ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade games
>don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider audience.
Or else it's because arcade gamers are ignorant fools.
You make the call.
Centurion
> >How old are you? 12? Ultimas by their very nature require intelligence
> >and problem solving skills.
> Argh! What is it with this age thing?! I am only a year older than the
> age you stated (which would make me... 13!;), and I like to consider
> myself at least semi-intelligent, at least to the point of having
> problem-solving skills. Why is everyone hung up on this age thing?!
I retract my haphazard comment. :) I am 23 and offhandedly chose a number
I thought appropriately young. 'I' certainly wasn't mature at 12.
[ Centurion @ The Temple of Mithra ]
[ http://www.cei.net/~bob/index.html ]
[ mailto:b...@cei.net ]
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <31c792e7...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,
Andrew D. Charlton <char...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>
>
>>>Speaking of realism, or
>>>the lack of it, why do my characters never have to sleep yet they have to
>>>complain that they're hungry. Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions stand
>>>there like morons for eight hours?
>
>How the hell do you know what they are doing while you are asleep? The
>screen fades out, then fades back in again. Why wouldn't they be sleeping?
>
Heh heh.... That's a good one...
Maybe when you exit U7, Dupre and company go to sleep...
Or maybe when you switch your monitor off, they take a nap..
Or maybe when you turn your back on monitor, the screen goes hi-res
and Avatar and co start moving with 50,000 frames of animation.
Cool.. This thing is getting interesting after every posting..
U9 can be as non-linear as Origin design team wants,
but things like *food* ,reagents and real time combat hinder gameplay..
Especially if there is a party of characters with Avatar.
BTW, party based real time combat was best implemented in Darklands. IMNHO
----
Noman
Ronald Ford
Anywho... I sorta agree with Ranzer whatever's statement about fighting
games... But only the VF series. Vf is art. If I can save up the money, I
plan to buy a VF3 arcade cabinet (this is gonna be hugely expensive...:)
Pedro Timoteo
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:13:10 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>Too bad there are very few posts. People are too afraid to say what some things
>about Ultima really bothers them. They just don't want to be in the same
>predicament I'm in right now. There are a lot of things wrong with Ultima, I've
>just stepped forward and told told them.
Ultimas surely aren't perfect, but you cricticized them for their
QUALITIES!
In fact, your post was so stupid that it has to be a joke! No one so stupid
could ever complete Ultima 7.
//--------------/////////////////||||||||\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\--------------\\
So many people tried before | Pedro Timoteo
But still I came through stronger than before | dehum...@ip.pt
Someone like you will never get through my door | Black Sabbath fan
No more -- Black Sabbath, 1995 | UDIC Ravenous Dragon
\\--------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\||||||||/////////////////--------------//
\\\ WWW homepage: http://www.ip.pt/~ip001367/home.html ///
Pedro Timoteo
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:13:39 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>>There's a reason some people prefer console games to computer games,
>>and vice versa. The small amount of memory in consoles does not allow
>>for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
>>(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
>>are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
>>weapons, which you use to kill harder enemies, getting more gold, which
>>buys you even better weapons, and this goes in a loop until you have
>>the very best weapons and can kill the really hard bad guy. In
>
>What's wrong with that? It makes the game a whole lot more worthwhile than PC
>games. On game consoles, you can see the improvement.
Yes, but it's childish.
>>computer RPG's, however, there is memory that can be used for things
>>other than graphics, which means more puzzles, more character
>>interaction, and more world interaction. Consequently, action is less
>
>Nope, they use all the extra memory to put in dumploads of text!!!
Hey, it's better than using 6 CDs just so they make it full speech (yuck!)
> They use that
>memory on the people you talk to....so they can say a whole lotta more things
>that is irrelevent to the quest.
But that's the point! Ultima 7, like any good RPG, is a simulation of a
world. Be it fantasy, present, future, etc.. Every character in the game is
supposed to be a person. People have their lives, their thoughts, their
objectives. They don't exist just so you can do your quest!
The best part for me in playing U7 was not "defeating the Guardian", but
reallistically interacting with a full-scale world.
> I know there are people out there who abhors
>reading so much text as I do.
You obviously think any book is boring, too. Enough said.
Pedro Timoteo
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:15:00 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>>Pacman would suit you a lot. Lots of killing other people by eating them,
>> stealing dots... :)
>>
>>HA HA HA HA HA
>>
>
>Methinks that people find it funny to ridicule me. Are you so much better than
>me that you have to try and degrade me to make yourself so much better. Did you
>ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade games
>don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider audience.
Yes, but majority means absolutely nothing. In fact, majorities usually are
wrong.
Maybe you'll learn that someday. For now, you can insult me as you'd like.
:)
(no, I don't mean you have insulted me, but you probably feel like to,
so...)
Marc Forrester
Ranzer L. Averon wrote:
> I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where
> the story line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I
> want at anytime.
Hmm. How do you handle real life? :>
That said, it is easy to get lost in U7 if you aren't already
familiar with Britain.. The screen is so damn zoomed in you
could walk past something really interesting in the mountains
ten meters away without even knowing it was there..
They really should have had a zoomed out map for long distance
travel, I think.
> I play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end,
> accompishing nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or
> the plot. Why are there so many missions I have to accomplish just
> to help someone out.
Well, they're supposed to be interesting in and of themselves.
You don't -have- to do them, you can just concentrate on beating
the game if you like. Of course, it doesn't lead you through it
by the hand, you have to work out what needs doing.
> And what the fuck, I don't want to read about every single
> characters' life story. I don't like reading, I like to play.
Then do so. What's making you read everything?
> I want to kill and get experience points and gold for it.
Go for it. Plenty of things to kill and treasure to steal in U7,
as far as I can see. You're a DIKU man, right?
> RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
Um. Role Playing Games are about all sorts of things,
primarily playing a role. Thus the name. Computer RPGs
have traditionally been about fighting, but this is a
misuse of the name 'RPG'. There are very few computer
RPGs really, and the Ultima series are most of them.
> And how come when I do fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks.
> I can't keep track of all the characters on the screen at once.
Yes, I preferred the combat system of U6, where things progressed as
fast as you made decisions, and you could take individual control of
any and all characters as and when necessary. OTOH, realtime has
some definite possibilities. I think what it needs is more complex
orders to give to your fellows, sort of like Command & Conquer.
And a less zoomed in view of the battlefield, yes.
> Also, this game is extremely slow on my 486/33.
Yes, well. So's Nukem 3D, I expect. Bear it or upgrade.
The fact that it doesn't pace itself on faster machines is worse.
> And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
> (which I've given up on because of the poor graphics).
You poor fool. Ultima 6 was a wonderful, brilliant thing.
Graphics are not necessary. They make it easier to get into
something, but they don't magically make the game any better.
> I want to go hack-n-slash, kill, steal anything that crosses my path.
Well, do so. It won't stop you. Sure, your friends will abandon you,
and you'll get arrested now and then, but that's fair enough.
The things I don't like is that if you play an antihero,
you don't get the right nervous respect from the peasantry.
> I don't want to worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king,
> Lord British. Screw him!
I must agree. Lord British is a smug, annoying, immortal fool
who should really get of his bum and solve everything himself.
But, again, who's forcing you to respect him? You don't have
to take any notice of anything Mr Nose says to have fun.
I think this would be that non-linearity thing again.
> I want graphics,
> not some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
And what's wrong with having both, then?
> What the fuck's with constantly feeding those people?!
No idea. Damn fool idea.
But the only really valid objection you've raised so far.
> What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see anything wrong
> with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did.
What's wrong with the Fellowship!? Yeesh.
You don't think those loons are scary?
Well, I suppose since you haven't talked to anyone much,
you wouldn't know. Believe me, they're a bad thing.
> Why do I always have to light a tourch when I enter a dungeon?!
Er. It's dark? What's up, can't cast light spells?
> I'm sick and tired of collecting reagents for some stupid spells,
> which isn't graphically pleasing when casted.
'Aren't graphically pleasing when cast.' Honestly, some people. :>
You can buy reagents, you know. Got to limit spell casting somehow,
haven't you? Effects? Well, could be better, yes. Minor point.
> Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this
> game's damn Voodoo memory crap.
I think there are fixes for that sort of thing by now.
> When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those game
> consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually
> impressive but too damn short.
Hmm. I'm temped to tell you to get some demos.
You're supposed to enjoy playing the game, not struggle
through it just to see the ending sequence, you know.
> I don't like being called an Avatar.
You're way too tense, then. :> I manage to ignore the fools.
> What the fuck does that mean.
A God manifesting in human form, I believe,
and also the virtual body representing a
person in any multi user cyber environment.
In Ultima, it means 'That heroic bod who saves the world a lot'.
> Why the hell do I have to wear swamp boots so I won't
> get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?!
Because the swamps are poisonous, for Sek's sake.
Magic boots work, too.
> Don't you think that's going overboard with the realism.
No more than dying when you're hit with a sword is.
Sure, it's inconvenient. It's there to inconvenience you,
it's an obstacle in the game for you to overcome. Do so.
> I walked on swamp in real life,
> and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that.
Well, swamps in Britain are poisonous. Does it matter?
> Speaking of realism, or the lack of it,
> why do my characters never have to sleep
Perhaps they sleep when you do. Picky picky.
> yet they have to complain that they're hungry.
You complained about that bit already.
> Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions
> stand there like morons for eight hours?
Do they? How do you know? :P
> If the game was so realistic, shouldn't
> my companions carry a sleepingbag also?
You were complaining about having to feed them just now.
The sleeping bag is just there to provide a 'sleep' command.
> And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the
> part where I have to serach for two people who work for the
> Fellowship, Elizabeth and Abraham(I think those were their names).
> Anyway, why are they always ONE town ahead of me?
:) It's traditional. Happens in, Eg, Excelsior, too.
> A person tells me to goto one town, and when I get there, they're
> not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will
> never do that to me.
Oh, I'm sure they'll come up with the idea one day.
Besides, they do other things equally annoying,
like supply you with a 20 MW welding laser that
only cuts through one specific object in the game..
> And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin?
> I never understood why an all powerful demon would need
> a human to help him out.
Well, he's not all powerful. Clearly.
> Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played
> Ultima 7 till it's conculsion.
Er, yeah. Why, if you weren't enjoying it?
> One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings,
> why the hell is the box nothing but black.
Thas' called style. :P
--
Roaming Drake
-=[UDIC]=-
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <4q9q47$s...@spool.cs.wisc.edu>,
Michael Kozlowski <kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>Actually, there's no need for conspiracy theories. The simple fact of
>the matter is that most people in an Ultima newsgroup are there because
>they _like_ the games. People who don't like Ultima simply don't bother
>to read the group. It has nothing to do with fear and intimidation;
>just lack of interest.
>
Yes, that is the point...
rec.games.computer.ultima-dragons is not rec.games.computer.ultima
rec-dragons is a newsgroup for fans of Ultima Series...
Naturally one would find people, who like the game in this newsgroup..
(To the extent that there are many stupid (IMO) threads on ultima virtues
and other stuff...)
But Ultima 8 is another story.. :-)
----
Noman
Robert S. Gregg
You know, on starting to read this message, I thought, "Wow, what a cleverly
worded Swiftian essay." Upon getting about two paragraphs down, I thought,
"Wow, what a complete yutz." :) I especially liked the part where he says
that RPG's aren't about character interaction, they're about fighting. Hee
hee..
And the thing about the box being black because the artists were too lazy
was the real kicker. Thanks for the laugh, pal!
Underworld Dragon
--=(UDIC)=--
David Schleppenbach
> You know, on starting to read this message, I thought, "Wow, what a cleverly
> worded Swiftian essay." Upon getting about two paragraphs down, I thought,
> "Wow, what a complete yutz." :)
I was thinking that it was some sort of Saturday Night Live skit, like
those fake commercials that they always do. But, you have to admit, it
certainly generated a lot of responses . . .
--
Dave Schleppenbach, Homer Dragon-to-be
eng...@sage.cc.purdue.edu
http://www.chem.purdue.edu/facilities/sightlab/index.html
David Schleppenbach
> >ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
> > >I don't care about light, I care about fighting the bad NPCs.
> >Fine-- I'm sure you have everyone's permission to flail about wildly
> >in the dark with your sword.
graphics, and no sound -- he's probably never heard of a grue.
Kill grue with sword.
} You don't see any grue here!
Hit grue with sword.
} I can't do that right now.
Throw sword at grue.
} You don't see any sword here!
Wait.
} You have been overcome by a pack of hungry grues. You are now dead.
Alan V Dunkin
Ranzer L. Averon (ran...@juno.com) wrote:
> Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
> that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
> more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
It's called flexibility, something many console or arcade gamers are not
familiar with. With such an open-ended design, a player can do whatever the
hell they want, to an extent. Most RPGers don't want to get stuck into a
storyline where they have to do exactly the way the designers intended.
They want to do it their way.
> What do you consider so unintelligent about my post?! I was being blunt. I'm not
> going to subtly indicate what I find bad about the game because of fear of
> getting flamed.
No, but perhaps you were blunt just so you could get flamed and draw attention
to your thread, which is drawing the most attention in the newsgroup.
> I guess that was something that I should've considered when writing my post in
> the first place. But I didn't.
It's not something a console or arcade gamer has to worry about, but among
PC types it's very important.
> If not using profanity could help in your views of me, then I won't use it
> anymore. Even though I could care less of what you think of me, I will do as you
> suggested.
Shit buddy if you don't care about what people think of you then why do
you post your opinions on the newsgroup? When you post what you think of
a game, you want people either to agree with you or challenge your views.
If you consider this "I could care less" type attitude then you have a
lot to learn.
--
Alan Dunkin (dunk...@utdallas.edu) Warbirds (Black Sheep squadron): alan
News Editor, Online Gaming Review (http://www.ogr.com)
Alan V Dunkin
> >for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
> >(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
> >are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
> games. On game consoles, you can see the improvement.
Wronging a game just because it has a story is pretty stupid. Trying to
make your way through a complex (but thoroughly explained) story is part of
the fun of role playing games. If you lack the comprehension skills
required to play true RPG's then I suggest you were lurking in the wrong
section of the store (and newsgroup).
> memory on the people you talk to....so they can say a whole lotta more things
> that is irrelevent to the quest. I know there are people out there who abhors
> reading so much text as I do.
There are such things as side quests. Plus, having a real conversation is
more interesting. Plus console RPG's do it too, but perhaps not to such
an extent.
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:53:00 -0400, se...@cornell.edu (Stephane Evoy) wrote:
>In article <31c67bf3....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:06:50 GMT, dax_...@ix.netcom.com (Dax Omni) wrote:
>>
>> >ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>
>RA:
>> >>I want to go hack-n-slash, kill, and steal
>
>DO:
>> >Then you should look elsewhere.
>
>RA:
>> I don't like those goddam action games if that's what you're implying.
>
>SE (me!):
>
>Hmmm. You don't like puzzles. You don't like interaction. You don't like
>non-linearity. You want to hack'n'slah, yet you hate action games.
When did I say I don't like puzzle game? When did I say I _DON'T_ like
interaction? I did mention i don't like non-linerarity! And I never said I hated
action games either. You're putting words into my mouth.
>Yours is a complex life, isn't it ?
>
My life is complex. And stress is the resultant of complexity!
>
>RA:
>> You don't need to automatically eat on console games because you don't need to
>> worry about it.
>
>SE (me!):
>
>Personally, I prefer to eat on my kitchen table.
>
Jeez, just another stupid attempt at degrading me. Don't you have anything
better to say rather than barbarous banter that's not pertaining to the subject.
>But, hey, that's me.
>
Just to humor you: I'm pretty sure majority of the people out there prefer
eating on kitchen tables also.
>--
>Stephane Evoy
>Cornell University
>-=UDIC=- Luminescent Dragon
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:41:08 GMT, jo...@halcyon.com (Josh LeBow) wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:16:02 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:11:32 GMT, jo...@halcyon.com (Josh LeBow) wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 03:04:31 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks.
>>>
>>> <<Snip>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In case you weren't aware, RPG stands for Role Playing Game.
> <<Snip>>
>>
>>Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
>>that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
>>more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
>
> Part of playing an RPG is conversing with characters and
>deciding whether or not what they have to say is relevant. And
yes, but did you ever notice just how MUCH you converse about before you could
decide that.
>because you have the freedom to go anywhere, the game requires you to
>THINK (Based upon conversations with other characters) what your next
>action should be (I know this is a novel concept, but hey, it might
>catch on.....)
I don't believe it's catching on.....do you?
>
>>
>>> If any of these elements were missing it would not be an
> <<Snip>>
>>
>>What do you consider so unintelligent about my post?! I was being blunt. I'm not
>>going to subtly indicate what I find bad about the game because of fear of
>>getting flamed.
>
> There is a fine line between being blunt and being obscene,
>and you have effectively demonstrated that.
If my bluntness offends you, don't read my follow-ups. I'm not one of those
people who subtly tell you what I feel. You should've esily discerned that I am
blunt up to the point of offensive.
>>
>>> Also, never try to compare an older game (Ultima VII was
> <<Snip>>
>>I guess that was something that I should've considered when writing my post in
>>the first place. But I didn't.
>
> See above.
See above.
>>
>>>profanety for no reason just makes you look stupid (Which you would
>>>have accomplished with out it).
>>
>>If not using profanity could help in your views of me, then I won't use it
>>anymore. Even though I could care less of what you think of me, I will do as you
>>suggested.
>
> Again, see above.
Don't worry, I cut the profanity out of my reposts. If you think it helps any
bit, then I'll take that small step. I have nothing to lose yet nothing to win.
I'll just do this anyway.
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:13:31 GMT, s...@beavis.u-net.com (Sam) wrote:
>Clip clop clip clop... Who's that under the bridge?
>
Obviously, you must have that low an intelligence to use a _child's_ story as
reference.
-Ranzer L Averon
Alan V Dunkin
People think it's funny to ridicule each other, because it's easy to do,
especially on the net.
> me that you have to try and degrade me to make yourself so much better. Did you
> ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade games
> don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider audience.
Arcade games are cheaper by the shot, so therefore they MIGHT have a wider
audience. I really doubt it, though. Arcade gamers (and strict arcade
gamers) want instant action, bought by the dollar, not something that they
might have to load, install, and play correctly; something that requires a
little more brain power than plunking quarters into a machine and banging it
to see if it went in. PC gamers are usually more dedicated folk, and not
only game on PCs but a much wider variety of systems or types of gaming,
including arcade games, paper RPGs and so forth.
Ranzer L. Averon
On 19 Jun 1996 21:06:15 GMT, kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Kozlowski)
wrote:
>In article <31c79030...@news.ascensionet.com>,
>Ranzer L. Averon <ran...@juno.com> wrote:
>>On 18 Jun 1996 20:31:53 GMT, kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Kozlowski)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Contrary to what you may believe, there is no barrier to intelligent
>>>Ultima discussion. Hell, even in rgcu-d, you'll see posts detailing
>>>what's wrong with U7 and U8.
>>
>>Too bad there are very few posts. People are too afraid to say what some things
>>about Ultima really bothers them.
>
>Actually, there's no need for conspiracy theories. The simple fact of
>the matter is that most people in an Ultima newsgroup are there because
>they _like_ the games. People who don't like Ultima simply don't bother
>to read the group. It has nothing to do with fear and intimidation;
>just lack of interest.
I don't _hate_ Ultima if that's what you mean. but I don't really _like_ it
either. I just pointed out some of the things that some people don't like about
it that they were too afriad to speak out about. Of course it's fear and
intimidation that's keeping them from posting. I read this newsgroup when it
comes to RPGs in general, not _JUST_ Ultima.
>
>>There are a lot of things wrong with Ultima, I've
>>just stepped forward and told told them.
>
>*sardonic applause*
>
>You brave, iconoclastic free-thinker, you! You sure told them!
*sarcastic reply* Thank you, you're all so thoughtful. It must've taken you a
long time to come forth with that.
>
>>>The key word, though, is "intelligent." This post was anything but
>>>intelligent.
>>
>>What do you want me to do, go back a rewrite the entire post?! I will still have
>>the same opinions about it as I do now. All I'll be doing is paraphasing the
>>words into a more _friendly_ format. I'm not going to change my bluntness
>>because it offends people. It it does, then they shouldn't be reading this.
>
>Well, it's a little late for re-writing now, but it certainly wouldn't
>have hurt. Here's a couple of hints:
>
> o Use correct spelling and grammar. I mean it. If you can't be
> bothered to make sure your post is correct, why should I bother
> deciphering it?
Email me and tell me what's wrong with me spelling and grammar so I can take it
into consideration when posting.
>
> o Watch your line lengths. Keep it to 75 characters or thereabout.
Why should I, that isn't the standard?
>
> o If your goal is to make people think (and not to just annoy them)
> avoid using incendiary language. Saying something "sucks" and is
> "crap" isn't going to get a lot of converts to your viewpoint.
If you read any of my follow-ups, I got rid of the profanity. If you're dubious
of my intelligence because I use harsh languages, then I just cut it back.
>
> o And for God's sake, TRIM YOUR POSTS. Keep in only the necessary
> context.
Jeez, you're scolding ME about that. There's people out there who quote my
entire post just to put in a one line comment.
>
>>>No, what really happened here was that the kid posted an obvious
>>>(and poorly-written) troll to an Ultima newsgroup. He got flamed. No
>>
>>It is a post! You want me to go out and hire a damn editor to look over my damn
>>spelling and grammatical errors before I post the message!!!
>
>If you can't handle it yourself, it may not be a bad idea.
>
Let me guess, you want to help me.
>>Just be glad it's
>>understandable. Most of the people here have far worse writing abilities than I
>>do.
>
>So? There's a lot of people whose posts aren't worth reading.
>
Yet mine was....
>>Most of the people here with complaints will say something but never back
>>their opinions up. I did. you have to give me credit for that at least.
>
>Bravo.
>
<snicker>
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:39:26 -0400, se...@cornell.edu (Stephane Evoy) wrote:
>In article <31c67b39....@news.ascensionet.com>, ran...@juno.com wrote:
>
>> On 18 Jun 1996 07:57:35 GMT, Mathias Kimmich
>> <mathias....@sm-philhist.unibe.ch> wrote:
>>
>> >ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>
>[Ranzer's ramblings rapidly removed]
>
>MK:
>> >Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
>
>RA:
>>...I find it deeply offending that you even consider me an AOLer.
>
>Gees... This guy can't be for real...
>
>HE JUST CAN'T !
>
Yes, I'm for real. And I'm here to stay. Why don't you contribute something to
this post rather than make a stupid remark? Don't you think this 'troller' bit
is gettin' tedious?
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:33:36 GMT, palq...@ix.netcom.com (Patrick Conley) wrote:
>ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>
>>I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>>line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime.
>
>[Idiotic Ramblings Munched]
>
>>I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>>said enough.
>>
>>-Ranzer L Avero
>
>This is a troll, right? I'm a sucker for trolls, I admit it.
>
>On the off chance that this is not a troll, please do yourself and us
And it's about time people start having dubious feelings about me being a
troller.
>a favor and stick to console games. It's knee-jerk fools and dubious
>role-players like you that are dragging the CRPG into oblivion.
>Because of the influence of "gamers" like you, modern CRPGs:
Because of fools like me?! It just shows you us "gamers" can cause a influence.
>
>- No longer have turn-based combat as an option;
What are you talkin' about, there's plenty of turn based combat games out there.
>- All resemble Doom;
Uh....Doom was a PC game, not a game console game. Also, I don't see too many
people complaining 'bout the game anyway. It set a standard for first-person
shooter, just like how all of you claimed Ultims set a standard for RPGs. I'm
just contradicting all of you by asking why you would consider it a
trend-setter. Anyway, we're talking about RPGs here, not Doom.
>- Can be solved in less than 20 hours;
It all depends how good a player you are.
>- Have plots so linear that I might as well be reading a novel;
Judging by the amount of text in U7, I was reading a novel!
>- tend toward the single character, instead of the well-balanced
It makes the game and it's surroundings easier to keep track of.
>
> parties of yesteryear;
>- emphasize graphics over plot or gameplay;
>- include stupid, non-rpg elements like arcade action.
That's purely opinon on your part. Your simplistic opinons mean nothing to me.
>
>
>Just play your little console games, and let those of us with IQs
>above 100 enjoy games that require some cognitive functioning. That
Why stop at RPGs...why not go a step further and say the same about strategics?
Strategic require far more cognitive thinking, but I'll be digressing if I went
into detail about it.
>is, while these games still exist. I fear that they shall soon be
>extinct, and games like Hexen will be considered 'complex fantasy
>role-playing.'
It seems you're dubious about how good the PC RPG genre is also.
>
>--
>Patrick Conley (palq...@ix.netcom.com)
>Formerly (izz...@mvs.oac.ucla.edu)
>
>Today's a day to celebrate, the foe have met their fate.
>The order for rejoicing and dancing has come from our warlord.
-Ranzer L Averon
Pedro Timoteo
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:16:02 GMT, ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L. Averon) wrote:
>Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
>that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
>more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
It's because of THIS that I still think you're joking! You yourself say it:
it gives you more FREEDOM! Why would someone want to be imprisoned?
Do you, in your real life, also like a set of rules to follow daily, from
when you awake till you go to sleep, and without the possibility of even
sneezing if it's not in the rules? Well, linear RPGs are like that!
Pedro Timoteo
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:00:42 -0500, Centurion <b...@cei.net> wrote:
>was Origin's financial mistake. And where do you derive your definition of an RPG?
>That means Role Playing Game.
He probably thinks it means Rocket Propelled Grenade... ;)
Syed Noman Ahmad
In article <4qa0nf$1...@portal.gmu.edu>,
Joel E Slovacek <jslo...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote:
>In article <4q9u0c$m...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> no...@purcell.ecn.purdue.edu (Syed Noman Ahmad) writes:
>
>>but things like *food* ,reagents and real time combat hinder gameplay..
>>Especially if there is a party of characters with Avatar.
>
>actual gameplay. For instance, if the casting of certain complicated spells
>is important to the plot, then by all means, color the world with mystical
>reagents and arcane rituals.
>
True..... And I agree..
But the problem is that these integral things shouldn't be done on a
"daily" basis.. What I mean is that I can go the Stygian Abyss (if it
survived UW) to search for a reagent that may help me casting
a spell which is integral to a particular section of the game..
I like Underworld 1 & 2 more than any Ultimas (I haven't played U4 BTW)
because of those nice runes.
----
Noman
Wyatt R Johnson
Jason Lin
In <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) wrote:
:it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting. And how come when I do
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This explains why good RPGs are not for you. You have a misconception on
what a RPG is. Gaining hit points, magic points, and skill levels alone do
not make a game RPG. What if someone comes out with a Doom alike game
which not only play just like Doom but also let you gain hit points and
skill levels but no interaction with NPCs, does that makes it a RPG? If
you can not play a role and interact with others in a game, how can it be a
Role Playing Game? And who said RPG is about fighting?
Your inability to play and enjoy non-linear story RPGs implies that your
brain is not up to the task of processing complex information or react to
unusual and non-predictable events. In your real life your role is Ranzer
L. Averon, do you get linear story in life? Are events in your life
predictable? In a non-linear RPG, one can use his imagination to some
extend to explore and interact in the game and this is what makes it fun to
play RPGs. RPGs with linear story severely reduce the fun I would have
because I must follow a many paths in certain order.
Ranzer L. Averon
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:42:48 +0100, Marc Forrester <me...@aber.ac.uk> wrote:
>Ranzer L. Averon wrote:
>> I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where
>> the story line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I
>> want at anytime.
>
>Hmm. How do you handle real life? :>
Like everybody else, one day at a time.
>That said, it is easy to get lost in U7 if you aren't already
>familiar with Britain.. The screen is so damn zoomed in you
>could walk past something really interesting in the mountains
>ten meters away without even knowing it was there..
Exactly. Ultima 7 should be made easy to understand. Why should everyone over at
Origin expect everyone to have played preceeding Ultimas. That's just stupidity
on their part.
>
>They really should have had a zoomed out map for long distance
>travel, I think.
Yet Orgin never thought of that. Why?! It's a very simple detail that they left
out that makes everything almost impossible.
>
>> I play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end,
>> accompishing nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or
>> the plot. Why are there so many missions I have to accomplish just
>> to help someone out.
>
>Well, they're supposed to be interesting in and of themselves.
>You don't -have- to do them, you can just concentrate on beating
>the game if you like. Of course, it doesn't lead you through it
>by the hand, you have to work out what needs doing.
That's true with them not leading you through by the hand, but I think it's just
plain stupid to have to read a novel's worth of text before I can attain and
ending.
>
>> And what the fuck, I don't want to read about every single
>> characters' life story. I don't like reading, I like to play.
>
>Then do so. What's making you read everything?
Cause I can't skip it. I would if I could. Everyone speaks of nothing but
banter. It's just that they tell you that minuet piece of info somewhere in
their life story that'll prove useful sometime in the future. That's why it
takes so damn long to beat the gaem, the text you have to read.
>
>> I want to kill and get experience points and gold for it.
>
>Go for it. Plenty of things to kill and treasure to steal in U7,
>as far as I can see. You're a DIKU man, right?
>
Yes, I want to kill and steal, but I can't....why you say, because then I can't
attain the ending I want easily.
>> RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting.
>
>Um. Role Playing Games are about all sorts of things,
>primarily playing a role. Thus the name. Computer RPGs
>have traditionally been about fighting, but this is a
Yes, it had been traditionally about fighting. And why did it change from there,
and onto interaction? I know why...Origin wanted to be a trend-setter. That's
why they change their interface almost entirely with every succeeding Ultima.
It's too bad they're failing when it comes to that. Take 'Pagan' for example.
Nuff said.
>misuse of the name 'RPG'. There are very few computer
No, origin is just tryin' to change it.
>RPGs really, and the Ultima series are most of them.
Yes, and isn't that a bit daunting.
>
>> And how come when I do fight in Ultima, it's in realtime. That sucks.
>> I can't keep track of all the characters on the screen at once.
>
>Yes, I preferred the combat system of U6, where things progressed as
>fast as you made decisions, and you could take individual control of
If you wanted something like that, stick with games like Command & Conquer.
that's just plain old stupid. You're there to role play the character....not
many characters at once.
>any and all characters as and when necessary. OTOH, realtime has
>some definite possibilities. I think what it needs is more complex
More complex orders, it was complex enought to begin with!!!
>orders to give to your fellows, sort of like Command & Conquer.
>And a less zoomed in view of the battlefield, yes.
>
>> Also, this game is extremely slow on my 486/33.
>
>Yes, well. So's Nukem 3D, I expect. Bear it or upgrade.
>The fact that it doesn't pace itself on faster machines is worse.
Why should I upgrade my computer to play one game?!? That's so stupid!!! origin
is once again assuming things about us PC game players. They're assuming we have
machines that are running at optimum speed. They expect _US_ to adapt to their
needs to run the game.
>
>> And what's with this shit about being GOOD in the preceeding games
>> (which I've given up on because of the poor graphics).
>
>You poor fool. Ultima 6 was a wonderful, brilliant thing.
>Graphics are not necessary. They make it easier to get into
>something, but they don't magically make the game any better.
Yes, graphics aren't EVERYTHING, but it does help out dramatically. It makes it
much more visually pleasing so you won't get brain cramps trying to discern what
a certain object is due to poor graphics and the lack of it.
>
>> I want to go hack-n-slash, kill, steal anything that crosses my path.
>
>Well, do so. It won't stop you. Sure, your friends will abandon you,
>and you'll get arrested now and then, but that's fair enough.
>The things I don't like is that if you play an antihero,
>you don't get the right nervous respect from the peasantry.
Ever here of the phase that says something in the lines of if you kill one
person, you're a murderer, but if you kill a thousand, you're a hero. I want to
be a hearo, not some murderer.
>
>> I don't want to worry about pleasing that stupid confounded king,
>> Lord British. Screw him!
>
>I must agree. Lord British is a smug, annoying, immortal fool
>who should really get of his bum and solve everything himself.
God, Origin is just pushin' our buttons. They want to see how much of this Lord
British we can put up with. If Origin wanted the game be non-linear, why not
give your PC he freedom to kill the damn bastard.
>
>But, again, who's forcing you to respect him? You don't have
No is forcing me......it's the damn game that's forcing me!!!
>to take any notice of anything Mr Nose says to have fun.
>
>I think this would be that non-linearity thing again.
>
>> I want graphics,
>> not some stupid story to follow that I don't care about.
>
>And what's wrong with having both, then?
Ultima 7 has horrible graphics. But it does have a somewhat good storyline,
provided you don't take those stupid side quest's that have nothing pertaining
to the game itself. Pagan had great graphics.....but the story was just plain
_horrible_.
>
>> What the fuck's with constantly feeding those people?!
>
>No idea. Damn fool idea.
>But the only really valid objection you've raised so far.
They're just goin' overboard with the realsim bit.
>
>> What's wrong with the Fellowship, I didn't see anything wrong
>> with them. But apparently, Lord British and the Avatar did.
>
>What's wrong with the Fellowship!? Yeesh.
>You don't think those loons are scary?
What did you not understand about that comment? Was I too general?
>
>Well, I suppose since you haven't talked to anyone much,
>you wouldn't know. Believe me, they're a bad thing.
>
>> Why do I always have to light a tourch when I enter a dungeon?!
>
>Er. It's dark? What's up, can't cast light spells?
>
Once again, going way overbaord with the realism bit.
>> I'm sick and tired of collecting reagents for some stupid spells,
>> which isn't graphically pleasing when casted.
>
>'Aren't graphically pleasing when cast.' Honestly, some people. :>
I told you, I think a game should have good graphics, and it should be visually
pleasing.
>You can buy reagents, you know. Got to limit spell casting somehow,
>haven't you? Effects? Well, could be better, yes. Minor point.
Yes, buy _WHY_ should I? It's nothing but a stupid hassle that Origin decided to
put in to get on people's goat.
>
>> Even though I have a sound card, I can't use it because of this
>> game's damn Voodoo memory crap.
>
>I think there are fixes for that sort of thing by now.
>
Yes, there are. But there weren't a while back.
>> When I beat Ultima, I expect a great ending like all those game
>> consoles, not short ones. But I must say the ending was visually
>> impressive but too damn short.
>
>Hmm. I'm temped to tell you to get some demos.
>You're supposed to enjoy playing the game, not struggle
>through it just to see the ending sequence, you know.
Who cares about demos if you can't play 'em?! Why should I struggle to beat the
game and find out it was worth almost nothing visually appeasing.
>
>> I don't like being called an Avatar.
>
>You're way too tense, then. :> I manage to ignore the fools.
>
>> What the fuck does that mean.
>
>A God manifesting in human form, I believe,
>and also the virtual body representing a
>person in any multi user cyber environment.
Yes, I found that out when I bothered to look it up.
>
>In Ultima, it means 'That heroic bod who saves the world a lot'.
That's the perfect terminalogy of an Ultima's Avatar =)
>
>> Why the hell do I have to wear swamp boots so I won't
>> get poisoned when I walk over or in a swamp?!
>
>Because the swamps are poisonous, for Sek's sake.
>Magic boots work, too.
I know they're poisonous. Why should it?!
>
>> Don't you think that's going overboard with the realism.
>
>No more than dying when you're hit with a sword is.
>Sure, it's inconvenient. It's there to inconvenience you,
>it's an obstacle in the game for you to overcome. Do so.
It's just another obstacle Orgin decided to put in to get people more stressed
over.
>
>> I walked on swamp in real life,
>> and I never have gotten sick or anything cloese to that.
>
>Well, swamps in Britain are poisonous. Does it matter?
>
Not really.
>> Speaking of realism, or the lack of it,
>> why do my characters never have to sleep
>
>Perhaps they sleep when you do. Picky picky.
>
So what if I'm picky!!! So what if I'm a nit picker!!! If you don't like it, too
bad!
>> yet they have to complain that they're hungry.
>
>You complained about that bit already.
>
>> Also, when I do sleep, why do my companions
>> stand there like morons for eight hours?
>
>Do they? How do you know? :P
>
>> If the game was so realistic, shouldn't
>> my companions carry a sleepingbag also?
>
>You were complaining about having to feed them just now.
>The sleeping bag is just there to provide a 'sleep' command.
Since Origin already went overbaord with the realism, why not go that extra
step.
>
>> And some other things I find unrealistic witht he storyline is the
>> part where I have to serach for two people who work for the
>> Fellowship, Elizabeth and Abraham(I think those were their names).
>> Anyway, why are they always ONE town ahead of me?
>
>:) It's traditional. Happens in, Eg, Excelsior, too.
>
Origin should make up it's mind. It's trying to be a trend-setter by changing
interface for every succeeding games and making you read a novel's worth of
text, why are they going for the traditional style also.
>> A person tells me to goto one town, and when I get there, they're
>> not there, and I'm told to goto another town. Game console RPGs will
>> never do that to me.
>
>Oh, I'm sure they'll come up with the idea one day.
>Besides, they do other things equally annoying,
>like supply you with a 20 MW welding laser that
>only cuts through one specific object in the game..
I'd rather have that. At least it less frustrating.
>
>> And why does the Guardian need the help of Batlin?
>> I never understood why an all powerful demon would need
>> a human to help him out.
>
>Well, he's not all powerful. Clearly.
But he isn't a weakling either.
>
>> Now, if you think of me as troller, keep in mind that I played
>> Ultima 7 till it's conculsion.
>
>Er, yeah. Why, if you weren't enjoying it?
>
I enjoy beating games. I enjoy knowing that I beat a certain game. I was just
upset by such a lack of a decent ending after beating it. Why should I go
through so much frustration to beat a game with a lousy ending?! That's just
stupid. Why don't Origin take that into consideration when they come out with
another Ultima.
>> One more thing before I'm finished with my ramblings,
>> why the hell is the box nothing but black.
>
>Thas' called style. :P
I call it laziness.
>
>--
>Roaming Drake
>-=[UDIC]=-
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 18 Jun 1996 16:47:29 GMT, ksch...@dsu.seas.ucla.edu (Kurt Schwind) wrote:
>> >Boy, doesn't this guy almost beg for an ".aol" in his mailing address?
>> >
>
>> What are you talkin' about?! AOL!!! I don't give a rat's ass about all of 'em
>> pricks. All AOLers could rot in hell!!! I find it deeply offending that you even
>> consider me an AOLer.
>
>
>> -Ranzer L Averon
>
> You act like an AOLer. You smell like an AOLer. You troll like an
>AOLer.
> Only the domain name has been changed to protect the foolish.
You are so wrong....so wrong the person who made the word up is laughin' at you
right now. Lets just say I am an AOLer, what the hell are you goin' to do about
it? You can't do anything. But since I'm not one, you could only assume I am
one. If you believe I'm a troller, that's your perogative. God, what's with you
people?!
-Ranzer L Averon
Ranzer L. Averon
On 20 Jun 1996 00:31:33 GMT, dunk...@utdallas.edu (Alan V Dunkin) wrote:
>Ranzer L. Averon (ran...@juno.com) wrote:
>> >and vice versa. The small amount of memory in consoles does not allow
>> >for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
>> >(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
>> >are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
>> What's wrong with that? It makes the game a whole lot more worthwhile than PC
>> games. On game consoles, you can see the improvement.
>
>Wronging a game just because it has a story is pretty stupid. Trying to
But wronging a game because of its excess amount of story is not.
>make your way through a complex (but thoroughly explained) story is part of
Thoroughly explained. It isn't thoroughly explained....it's just useless banter
that has no real meaning in the game itself.
>the fun of role playing games. If you lack the comprehension skills
>required to play true RPG's then I suggest you were lurking in the wrong
>section of the store (and newsgroup).
I'm not lurking around the wrong store or newsgroup. Where else can I lurk if I
have questions and doubts about a specific game?
>
>> memory on the people you talk to....so they can say a whole lotta more things
>> that is irrelevent to the quest. I know there are people out there who abhors
>> reading so much text as I do.
>
>There are such things as side quests. Plus, having a real conversation is
Yes, side quests that have no meaning in being in the game ing the first place
but to keep the PC from beating it at a quicker time. It's there to further
confuse you and make you read more if you decide to chose the side quest.
>more interesting. Plus console RPG's do it too, but perhaps not to such
>an extent.
Yes, game consoles do have real conversations that aren't to such a great
extent. That's because the conversation gets to the point rather than digressing
off the subject of the main plotline.
>
>--
>Alan Dunkin (dunk...@utdallas.edu) Warbirds (Black Sheep squadron): alan
>News Editor, Online Gaming Review (http://www.ogr.com)
>
-Ranzer L Averon
LEV
Robert R Cirillo wrote:
->
-> I'm hoping this is a joke. If not, then maybe you should find out
-> what RPG stands for. It stands for *ROLE* Playing Game. An actual
-> RPG should be primarily about character interaction and playing the
-> ROLE of your character. The fighting, getting gold and experience,
-> etc. are secondary.
->
Robert! Are you speaking about Larry from Sierra? No?
Then maybe Roger Wilco? No? Guybrush? No?
Are you talking about Avatar? I don't believe!
I think Larry have more interaction. No less at least.
Role? What do you think about ROLE playing? I think Larry wins.
And fighting , gold and experience are nothing for Larry.
I'd say even more: The less experience - the more fun.
Thank you, Robert. Now I know what RPG stands for.
Jason Lin
In <31c791f2...@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) wrote:
:On 18 Jun 1996 17:16:46 GMT, dev...@ix.netcom.com(Winkler Devere Bond) wrote:
:>There's a reason some people prefer console games to computer games,
:>and vice versa. The small amount of memory in consoles does not allow
:>for very complicated storylines, or for much character interaction.
:>(You talk to the guy and he says one phrase) Therefore, the stories
:>are more action oriented, i.e., gather gold so you can buy better
:>weapons, which you use to kill harder enemies, getting more gold, which
:>buys you even better weapons, and this goes in a loop until you have
:>the very best weapons and can kill the really hard bad guy. In
:
:What's wrong with that? It makes the game a whole lot more worthwhile than PC
:games. On game consoles, you can see the improvement.
Well... to me that is simply monotonous. Gee.. I've played many NES and
SNES fantasy/RPG games and I must say I enjoyed Ultima 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8
more than most of the console games.
:>computer RPG's, however, there is memory that can be used for things
:>other than graphics, which means more puzzles, more character
:>interaction, and more world interaction. Consequently, action is less
:
:Nope, they use all the extra memory to put in dumploads of text!!! They use that
:memory on the people you talk to....so they can say a whole lotta more things
:that is irrelevent to the quest. I know there are people out there who abhors
:reading so much text as I do.
So what's wrong with that? As long as the irrelevant text are filled with
humours or interesting stories I would always enjoy reading them.
Jason Lin
In <31c79812...@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) wrote:
:On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:11:32 GMT, jo...@halcyon.com (Josh LeBow) wrote:
:> In case you weren't aware, RPG stands for Role Playing Game.
:>You assume the role of a character and exist in that characters's
:>world. In this case you are the Avatar, not some grunt with a gun.
:>Part of the Ultima games is being able to "experience" the world of
:>Britannia. This includes traveling from town to town as you see fit,
:>conversing with characters about their entire lives, choosing when to
:>do elements of the various quests, murdering farm animals for no
:>reason, attempting to kill Lord British, etc..
:
:Yes, but why would I want to traverse to other lands and converse with people
:that have no real relevence to the game? The game being non-linear gives you
:more freedom, thus, it gets you further lost when you don't know where to go.
How can you possibly not knowing where to go??? If you are talking about
not knowing the 'exact' procedures to complete a quest, don't worry. By
traveling to the right town and converse with others, you'll get an idea.
BTW, is lack of direction or destination part of your real life? I know
some people may feel lost in life sometimes.
:> If any of these elements were missing it would not be an
:>Ultima game or RPG, just a Puzzle/Action game (Which apperently is
:>what you are looking for). If this is the case, then please do not
:>purchase another Ultima game (So we don't have to listen to your
:>unintelligable babble on why you don't like it!).
:
:What do you consider so unintelligent about my post?! I was being blunt. I'm not
:going to subtly indicate what I find bad about the game because of fear of
:getting flamed.
Your misconception of RPG is a sign of unintelligence. Perhaps I should be
more polite and say your are simply misinformed about what RPG is.
Apparently the term RPG has been very closely associated to console fantasy
games because Nentindo started calling their fantasy games "RPG" when they
were introduced in the late 80's.
Jason Lin
In <31c79438...@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) wrote:
:Methinks that people find it funny to ridicule me. Are you so much better than
:me that you have to try and degrade me to make yourself so much better. Did you
:ever notice that alot of PC gamers know arcade games but alot of arcade games
:don't know PC games? That's because arcade games have a much wider audience.
The problem I have with your original post is that you want RPGs to be more
arcade oriented and to an extent it is not an RPG anymore(read no
interaction and no good story line).
Jason Lin
In <31c89a87...@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
Averon) wrote:
:> Part of playing an RPG is conversing with characters and
:>deciding whether or not what they have to say is relevant. And
:
:yes, but did you ever notice just how MUCH you converse about before you could
:decide that.
It's only too much of conversation if you try to converse all of the
possible subjects listed. If you are expecting to find the answers you
seek for in the first sentence of any conversation, then any irrelevant
conversation is too much for you.
Ranzer L. Averon
On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:00:42 -0500, Centurion <b...@cei.net> wrote:
>Ranzer L. Averon wrote:
>
>> I just played Ultima 7, and I think it sucks. I hate that shit where the story
>> line is non-linear. I get so lost when I can go anywhere I want at anytime. I
>> play games to beat it....NOT wander aimlessly for hours on end, accompishing
>> nothing that has anything to do with the storyline or the plot...
>
>(major snip)
>
>>...I'm going to stick with game consoles. I like the graphics better. I think I've
>> said enough.
>
>Are you a total idiot? As vulgar as you are and seeing how much about Ultima you
>hate, what the hell are you doing here? The UDIC newsgroup is for people who (at
>least generally) appreciate Ultima. If you hate Ultima 7 and all the 'lame graphics'
Since when did I have to _like_ Ultima to express my opinions?!
>from earlier ones, then I have a suggestion: Go somewhere else. There wasn't one
I'm not going anywhere. I'm here to stay. I'm sick and tired of keeping my
opinions bottled up inside while everyone else prasies the stinkin' game!
>positive thing you said about the game or any of its predecessors. Did it ever
That's because there was nothing positive I could say about it.
>occur to you while you played the game that it was not going to magically turn into
>some arcade game at the end? To finish an involved game you hate doesn't make sense.
I never once indicated I hated the game. i just didn't like it. There's a
difference there. Look the two words up in a dictionary if you don't.
>I certainly hope you don't want to become a Dragon, but heck, you finished a game
>you despised, why not join a club you hate? I bet you didn't even BUY the game. Why
>did you even bother posting all that garbage? Do you expect something from us? How
Why did I post this garbage, why do you post garbage praising a game that isn't
too great to begin with. I've lurked on this newgroup for a while. All you ever
do is praise one game over and over, comparing every other RPG to it.
>old are you? 12? Ultimas by their very nature require intelligence and problem
I'm not even near that age. What make you actually think I'm twelve?!
>solving skills. Thats why WE complain so much about Ultima 8 - it was arcade and it
>was Origin's financial mistake. And where do you derive your definition of an RPG?
>That means Role Playing Game. A shootem-up arcade game is NOT an RPG. You should
When did I mention a shooter?! I have people say I'm comparing it to crap like
Mortal Kombat and pacman. Now you go out and add shooters to the list I didn't
say!
>READ about the game before you buy it, or LOOK at the box, or ASK someone who has
>played it, and QUIT if it isn't what you want to play.
I did read about it. I thought I would've liked it. The box I looked at wasn't a
box to begin with. I played the game because everyone here kept praising it. i
figured since everyone liked it, I might also. Boy, was I wrong.
>
>Centurion
>
>[ Centurion @ The Temple of Mithra ]
>[ http://www.cei.net/~bob/index.html ]
>[ mailto:b...@cei.net ]
-Ranzer L Averon
zerocks_wears_nosox
On Thu, 20 Jun 1996 00:00:50 GMT, dehum...@ip.pt (Pedro Timoteo)
wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:00:42 -0500, Centurion <b...@cei.net> wrote:
>
>>was Origin's financial mistake. And where do you derive your definition of an RPG?
>>That means Role Playing Game.
>
>He probably thinks it means Rocket Propelled Grenade... ;)
>
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!! ...Rocket Propelled Granade... Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! Funny!
++++++++++++
Zerocks Wears NoSox
Ranzer L. Averon
On Thu, 20 Jun 1996 05:03:08 GMT, sai...@ucla.edu (Jason Lin) wrote:
>In <31c6180d....@news.ascensionet.com> ran...@juno.com (Ranzer L.
>Averon) wrote:
>
>:it. RPGs are not about interaction, it's about fighting. And how come when I do
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>This explains why good RPGs are not for you. You have a misconception on
>what a RPG is. Gaining hit points, magic points, and skill levels alone do
>not make a game RPG. What if someone comes out with a Doom alike game
>which not only play just like Doom but also let you gain hit points and
>skill levels but no interaction with NPCs, does that makes it a RPG? If
That's a good analogy there, but we're talking about RPGs, not some first-person
shooter. And, no, I wouldn't consider it an RPG.
>you can not play a role and interact with others in a game, how can it be a
>Role Playing Game? And who said RPG is about fighting?
How can you possibly role-play a person interacting with people who gives you
the most useless information?! Yes, there are supposed to be interactions in an
RPG, but it shouldn't be useless banter.
>
>Your inability to play and enjoy non-linear story RPGs implies that your
>brain is not up to the task of processing complex information or react to
My brain is not up to the task of reading useless text that doesn't pertain to
the plotline.
>unusual and non-predictable events. In your real life your role is Ranzer
>L. Averon, do you get linear story in life? Are events in your life
>predictable? In a non-linear RPG, one can use his imagination to some
Yes, I do role play myself in real life, but I don't role play stupid
conversations that mean absolutely nothing.
>extend to explore and interact in the game and this is what makes it fun to
>play RPGs. RPGs with linear story severely reduce the fun I would have
>because I must follow a many paths in certain order.
Yes, it's fun to have different paths laid out in front of you, but all paths
lead to nowhere. What's so fun about that?! You should have a single path laid
out for you that'll lead you to your goal, not deviate you from it. Taking all
those extra side quests is nothing but a waste of time. It has nothing to do
with the overall layout of the game, but increase your chances of getting killed
and lost!
-Ranzer L Averon
Andrew D. Charlton
>the same opinions about it as I do now. All I'll be doing is paraphasing the
>words into a more _friendly_ format. I'm not going to change my bluntness
>because it offends people. It it does, then they shouldn't be reading this.
You could try backing up your arguments. Why don't you like games to have
plots? Which of the following arguments do you think would get a better
response?
1)
>>And what the fuck,
>>I don't want to read about every single characters' life story. I don't like
>>reading, I like to play.
or
2)
I prefer a game which is stimulating to to my senses, and challenging to my
reflexes.
Regardless of what you may think, how you say something is at least as
important as what you say. The replies will tend to have the same tone as
the original message.
--
____/\___ | _O_ Erraticus _O_ |"In THIS house we
___/__\__) | | -==(UDIC)==- | | obey the laws of
(__/ \__ | mailto:char...@ihug.co.nz | thermodynamics!"
/ \ |http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~charlton/andrew/| --Homer Simpson
Michael Kozlowski
In article <31c895ea...@news.ascensionet.com>,
Ranzer L. Averon <ran...@juno.com> wrote:
>On 19 Jun 1996 21:06:15 GMT, kozl...@sol6.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Kozlowski)
>wrote:
>I don't _hate_ Ultima if that's what you mean. but I don't really _like_ it
>either. I just pointed out some of the things that some people don't like about
>it that they were too afriad to speak out about. Of course it's fear and
>intimidation that's keeping them from posting.
If you're going to make assertions like this, support them. Name me
someone who's had these opinions and been afraid to post them. One name.
>I read this newsgroup when it
>comes to RPGs in general, not _JUST_ Ultima.
By "this newsgroup," I assume you mean csipgrpg. Surely you're aware
that you cross-posted your message to rgcu-d?
>> o Use correct spelling and grammar. I mean it. If you can't be
>> bothered to make sure your post is correct, why should I bother
>> deciphering it?
>
>Email me and tell me what's wrong with me spelling and grammar so I can take it
>into consideration when posting.
Do I look like a proofreader to you? Get a spell-checker; they're not
hard to find. And as far as grammar goes ... well, there's any number of
books on the subject. Read one.
>> o Watch your line lengths. Keep it to 75 characters or thereabout.
>
>Why should I, that isn't the standard?
Because it allows people to quote you without your text exceeding the 80
character standard. When I quoted your earlier posts, several lines
exceeded 80 characters, making it an unreadable mess.
(Grammar Hint: You should have said: "Why should I? That isn't the
standard." It's called a run-on sentence. I'm sure your English teacher
will be glad to help you out with any further questions.)
>> o If your goal is to make people think (and not to just annoy them)
>> avoid using incendiary language. Saying something "sucks" and is
>> "crap" isn't going to get a lot of converts to your viewpoint.
>
>If you read any of my follow-ups, I got rid of the profanity.
It isn't the profanity so much as the attitude. If you would have said
"Here's what I don't like about U7," that would have been one things.
Saying "U7 sucks!!" is something else altogether.
>> o And for God's sake, TRIM YOUR POSTS. Keep in only the necessary
>> context.
>
>Jeez, you're scolding ME about that. There's people out there who quote my
>entire post just to put in a one line comment.
There's also a lot of people who can't write coherently. They're idiots,
too. I never implied you were alone in your failings.
>Let me guess, you want to help me.
I'll have to beg off on that one; my altruisim is feeling a little
strained at the moment.
>>So? There's a lot of people whose posts aren't worth reading.
>Yet mine was....
*shrug* It's kind of like the fascination people have with a car crash.
Everyone slows down at takes a look at all the blood.
Then the show's over and we go away. Being inflammatory is one of the
easiest ways to get quick responses on Usenet, but it sure as hell won't
get you any respect.
--
Michael Kozlowski
mlko...@students.wisc.edu
kozl...@cs.wisc.edu
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk
Michael Kozlowski
In article <31c8ed0a...@news.ascensionet.com>,
>
>opinions bottled up inside while everyone else prasies the stinkin' game!
Hey, Ranzer? Are you even _aware_ that you cross-posted this article to
rgcu-d? Because I've got a pretty good feeling that most of the people
who are telling you to go away are posting from that group.
And while your post may be appropriate for csipgrpg, it is most
definitely a troll in rgcu-d.
Next time, watch your cross-posting.
>I never once indicated I hated the game. i just didn't like it. There's a
>difference there. Look the two words up in a dictionary if you don't.
Yeah, but not a big difference. And besides, saying a game "sucks" is
pretty close to saying you hate it.
>Why did I post this garbage, why do you post garbage praising a game that isn't
>too great to begin with. I've lurked on this newgroup for a while. All you ever
>do is praise one game over and over, comparing every other RPG to it.
Now, see, here's the thing that you (and, to be fair, some of your
detractors) don't seem to understand: Tastes Vary (tm).
If you don't like complex, plot-and-character-oriented RPGs, don't play
Ultima. You won't like it.
If, OTOH, you love hack-and-slash RPGs, you'll probably like console
games better than Ultima.
Most people here prefer the more complex RPGs. Neither game is
inherently "better," though.
In other words, YMMV.
>I'm not even near that age. What make you actually think I'm twelve?!
He was shooting for a randomly young age. He over-estimated, apparently.