Ultima 9 - What Do >You< Want to See?
Brian Martin
My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
include than you?
Thanks for your time,
-Bmartin
Michael V. Pisarczyk
games. Here are some of the things I like and some of the things I'd like to
see:
A hybrid combat system. I don't know how it would work, but the combat in U7
seems just a touch too random (which is, I guess, pretty realistic). I
thought U4's system was pretty good at allowing you a bit of strategy, but it
got slow after a while. One of the things I liked about the 7's was that as
the game progressed, and your characters were stronger, combat wasn't an issue
for the lower monsters. All the way through U4 you had to hassle with the
combat screen and moving guys around, etc.
I think between the key ring and the auto-feed hot-key, you guys reached a
happy medium between having to actually buy food find keys vs. a lot of hassle
in manipulating these items.
I don't know how, but the NPC interfacing still needs work. Maybe going back
to typing key words wouldn't be so bad as an option. It encourages paying
more attention and *gasp* keeping better notes.
Likewise, I am anti-automap. Part of the thrill of the dungeons was figuring
them out. In the more challenging ones, I ended up making maps for myself,
but I think the automap feature makes some of this too easy.
I'm sure that the graphics and sound will be awesome, but don't falter on this
at all. In addition to being a good game with a good plot, the more "real" it
seems, the better.
Also, I'm still pretty partial to the first person perspective in dungeons.
This would get to be a bit tedious in the regular world, but maybe go to a
system like U4 with separate town/dungeon/wilderness interfaces. A first
person perspective in some of the towns might be kind of neat... The problem
is where do you break it off. Also, a party of eight can see more than a
party of one. In a dungeon, there would have to be some way of seeing what's
behind you (i.e. a rear guard).
I actually like how much of a pain in the a** it is when it gets dark. This
makes things much more realistic.
Most important - keep the skill required to finish the game pretty high. I
like seeing my character progress. I also like learning some of the tricks of
the game on my own. Don't make things too obvious or even necessarily
consistent with previous games. This is a very sophisticated audience you are
playing to, they don't want to play Ultima 4 or 7 (or any other Ultima) again,
but they do want the "feel" of Ultima. That's your challenge - make it all
new, yet keep it the same.
Also, there's a thread that's been floating here (it seems like) forever.
It's called Origin CD ONLY FOREVER or something. There's a huge debate about
pushing system capacity and designing for high end systems. IMHO, assuming a
mid 1996 release date, the game should run adequately on a fast 486, but
exploit the features of a Pentium for best performance. By the time it is
released, this may not even be good enough. Don't sacrifice the game for
downward compatibility. I'd rather wait for a new system to play the best
game possible than get a game that's no better than what we already have.
Good luck with this game. In many rpgers opinions, this could signal the end
for Origin, or a new birth...
_________________________ _________________________
Mike Pisarczyk |##### #####| If you choose not to
|###### ######| decide you still have
mvpi...@engprn.mobil.com ### ## ## ### made a choice.
### ### ### -Rush
My opinions are my own! |##### #####|
_________________________|##### #####|_GO BLUE!________________
John Sabean
First of all, let me say its great to see someone is listening....
One thing I'd like to see is a revamping of the combat system. I must admit,
although all the animations are nice, the real-time combat system that appeared
in Ultima 7 - 8, isn't really practical. One suggestion I made on here a while ago
is a comprimise between the turn based system I grew to love and the desire
to see nice graphics presentation is the ability to pause combat, set actions,
choose spells to cast, etc... The ability to choose specific players to go after
specific targets using certain weapons. Let me choose all of this, while the game
is paused, unpause the game and let it go until I feel I need to change an option
or two. This would effectively give me back the full control I had with the turn
based combat of Ultima 4-6, and allow me to sit back and enjoy all the nice sword
slashing, blood spurtting animations. (AND NO MORE DOUBLE CLICKING!!!! The most
annoying thing about Ultima 7, was 5 guys attacking one guy and me trying to find
the one pixel I needed to double click on to get in a hit!)
This was one of the reason 2 of my friends stopped playing Ultimas after
Ultima 6. Combat became less tactical and more random.
One of the other things I missed, is 3-D perspective dungeons. They wouldn't have
to be of Ultima Underworld VR quality, but it would be a nice feature to have back.
Top down exploring of the dungeons got too monotonous. At least with neat wall
graphics and full screen sized monsters to look at, it might keep my interest....
I don't know how feasable it would be to put this element back in the game, but
I was sorry to see it go back in Ultima 6.
And on a last note: BRING BACK THE MOONGATES! (Ultima 7 was annoying enough when
you hurt yourself whenever you tried using one, but got really annoying when they
disappeared altogether!!!!)
John J Sprague
people in this newsgroup, I have been dismayed by the recent trend in the
series. Here are some of my opinions:
1) The trend to real time combat has to be stopped or at least moderated.
I am a fan of strategic combat... I think X-COM had perhaps the best combat
system I have seen in a while. Real time combat has its place in the industry,
certainly, but I think that the Ultima experience is more aligned with
thinking and planning rather than manual dexterity and speed. I liked the
return to the emphasis on fighting in U8, after the fighting depleted U6
-U7.5, just not the way it was implemented.
2) In a similar vein, I was severely dissapointed in the arcade sequences,
i.e. the jumping, etc. I would advocate doing away with this totally, as the
opinions I have seen on the newsgroup have been almost exclusively negative
about this subject.
3) I am also alarmed by the trend towards more non-personal interaction in
U8. I thought U7 and U7.5 were very good in this aspect. However, U8
eliminated the portraits, one of my favorite things, and the number of people
to talk to. I think this is very dangerous, as this is one of the things
the Ultima series is famous for.
4) Point of view: in U8 it was too low. Often it was hard to see what you
were actually trying to manipulate. I kind of like the slightly off overhead
view.
5) Finally, recent GOOD things about Ultima: One is the graphics. As much
as posible, I think you should keep up the high end graphics. HOWEVER, game
play should not be sacrificed to make room for better graphics. I liked the
spell animations particularly in U8. Also, the addition of climbing was
very creative. Just not the jumping over platforms, etc...
Thanks for your time, and you interest in true RPGers opinions.
--
Jason Sprague
jja...@mit.edu
JANG HIN LANG
Brian Martin <bma...@origin.ea.com> wrote:
>Hello There,
>
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>
>
-------------
Plot development
-------------
Since when was the Avatar the official courier service provider and the
lost-and-found clerk of Britannia? The search for the air balloon plans
in Ultima V - Warriors of Destiny, collecting the nine pieces of a map in
Ultima VI - The False Prophet and the finding of materials required to
enter Penumbra's house in Ultima VII - The Black Gate were all a waste
of time. Some ominous force that threatens to "rule to world" is another
boring plot idea...
Unfortunately, many computer role-playing games end once the
main conflict has been resolved. We are given this pleasant animated
sequence at the end and suddenly the DOS prompt appears.
In such a context, the Avatar reminds me of shoe salesmen. They go
to work and once a day's task is accomplished, they go home -- end
of story. With the proliferation of add-on disks, why not have an light-
hearted attempt to market an option to have the Avatar remain on
Britannia for a little while after the quest is done and interact with the
populace. There is much that we, as players, do not know about the society
in which were are called so often to save.
------
Combat
------
One deficiency that I noticed in Ultima VII was that of Dungeon Destard. To
defeat the dragons all a party had to do was to place caltrops on the ground
and lure the creatures onto the metal spikes. What I fail to understand is
why such a formidable opponent would be so foolish. Similarly, the NPC
parties that you would encounter in either forest, cavern or grassland also
lacked any sense of strategy. I noticed only two rules of engagment: attack
the nearest opponent and flee when appropriate.
To simulate combat options, it should be a trivial exercise to build and
maintain an active AVL tree. Each front and back child of some root node would
be two general actions. Subsequent traversals in either subtree expands
the options available. Deciding which path to take along the tree would
be akin to assigning some number to each node. A clever strategy involving an
attack with missile weapons from a group of concealed archers would have a
much higher priority number than a strategy where the same archers, surrounded
by a group of thugs attack, en masse, on a clear, sunny morning in the middle
the some dirt road leading to the vineyards of Empath Abbey.
Having such a data structure can also simulate a "learning process". Since
inserting a strategy option (i.e. a node) into an AVL tree preserves balance,
why not do this in real-time? In most cases, all operations are, at worst, of
O(1.44 log n). Future encounters with the same group (provided that someone
flees the battle, manages to escape captivity or successfully negotiates their
freedom) would not only have an expanded array of tactical options to
choose from but also a node combination (a failed strategy) to avoid.
For non-human encounters, you can sort and therefore arrange the strategy
options in terms of the time of day, feeding cycle, breeding season,
environment and current weather conditions. A hungry troll on a chilly morning
having lost a territorial battle with another troll would not be patient enough
to wait beneath a bridge for a hearty morning meal to just stroll by.
------------
NPC interaction
------------
One can safely assume that those who use, and in many cases own, a
computer have acquired the basic skill of typing. As such, there should be
an option for players to type their queries instead on choosing one from a
listing. Why restrict players in terms of what they can ask a particular
character? The language parser in Ultima VI - The False Prophet was nice,
but still somewhat restrictive; we were still "encouraged" to ask the
highlighted words.
---------
The Avatar
---------
The inclusion of a choice of gender and ethnic background was a welcome
surprise in Ultima VII - Part 2. I sincerely hope that this option will be
available in Ultima IX - Ascension.
---------
Lord British
---------
Having ruled Britannia for several years why is he still single? With
advancing age, old LB should be thinking about who will be heir to the throne.
-----------------------------------------------------------
.Hin.
JANG HIN LANG
Brian Martin <bma...@origin.ea.com> wrote:
>Hello There,
>
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>
>Please post any suggestions to this board.
>
For those who have read article 38849 please ignore the following
-------------
Plot development
-------------
Since when was the Avatar the official courier service provider and the
lost-and-found clerk of Britannia? The search for the air balloon plans
in Ultima V - Warriors of Destiny, collecting the nine pieces of a map in
Ultima VI - The False Prophet and the finding of materials required to
enter Penumbra's house in Ultima VII - The Black Gate were all a waste
of time. Some ominous force that threatens to "rule the world" is another
Jeffrey John Naumowitz
JANG HIN LANG (ja...@ecf.toronto.edu) wrote:
: In article <bmartin.2...@origin.ea.com>,
: Brian Martin <bma...@origin.ea.com> wrote:
: >Hello There,
: >
: >My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
: >U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
: >fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
: >
: >Please post any suggestions to this board.
Wow, what a question/
Lets start with combat. I miss the combat of u4 and 5. In 6-8 char develop
ment is reduced to a min. I like the fact that u used 2 have to build up
characters so u could advance. There needs to be more tactics involved in
combat. Also, I miss the typing. The keyboard is there for a reason.
We can take advantage of it. As for story, I'm assuming the guardian must
be defeated, but this should be done in a creative unique way. Some more
subtle things concerning Earth should be incorporated into the story, since
that is where the Avatar is from. But enough criticism, I'm sure it will
be great.
(Maybe some time-traveling theme to get old Iolo and Shamano and Dupre
back?, then again, maybe not)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to u by the Funk. My not be reproduced without the express
written consent of Funk or anyone with the first name of Zarley.
Have a nice day. Go Devils!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Little
>
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
By this point, you've probably realized that Usenetters are impossible to
please. ;) Giving us a broad task like this means your going to get 110%
of all possible answers. Of course, that doesn't prevent me from adding
in my own 8088 cents...
First, I would suggest a LOT of customizability. As can be seen from this
thread, everybody's tastes are slightly different. The more gameplay can
be customized, the better. Reference System Shock for how it ought to be
done. The more categories and levels of customization you have, the
happier everybody will be. (I thought 4x4 was a little skimpy for SS. But
since it's primarily an action game, it's not that bad.)
Combat
------
This is probably where you'll get the most conflicting opinions. Personally,
I hate strategic combat. Micromanaging every single #$$@%! party member
really gets in the way, and makes me feel as if I'm incarnated in 6 different
bodies, instead of playing a single character. On the other hand, some
people love moving everything around. Personally, I would suggest system
similar to Ultima 7's: Allow every character to have a general strategy,
or be controlled by the player. INCLUDING the Avatar. Add another check
box that allows combat to proceed a) real time, b) turn by turn, or c)
character by character (like U6). And -please,- increase combat AI for
everyone, including the monsters!
Story
-----
Big. Epic. Surprising. Maybe the story could start out with the Avatar
battling the Guardian -- and winning! Having Big Red keel over at the
beginning of the game would definitely liven things up -- as well as giving
the writers an opportunity to come up with something original.
It's an interesting challenge: How do you keep the plot twists that make
the game interesting, yet keep the game non-linear enough to be enjoyable?
I dunno. But I think the answer lies in a good conversation system...
NPCs
----
More! More! More! Ultimas have always had less people than your average
ghost town. (U6 had <200. U7 may have had even less.) Of course, writing
scripts for 1000 characters is tedious at best. And I've always hated those
generic 'guard' like characters that always say the same three lines.
Of course, I also hate having to talk to every single person in the faint
hope that I might stumble across a clue. Ultima 7 was just about perfect:
the 'important' people always helped you, while the 'unimportant' people
didn't necessarily help you in your quest, but always had something
interesting happening in their lives. Perhaps you could hire a horde of
cheap writers to handle the 'bit' parts, while the main story could be
handled by the regular team. Whatever you do, the more non-essential
personnel (cooks, stable boys, children, servants, just plain average Joes)
in the game, the more real it feels. Hey -- it's going to be on a CD,
right? Fill it up!
Graphics
--------
Have you seen the Relentless demo? (Also known as 'Little Big Adventure'.)
The characters are -perfect.- All it needs is a graphically rich world
for the characters to walk around in. The way ceiling 'cut away' when
necessary is just right, as well. None of the U8 problem of not being able
to see your character.
Sound
-----
U8 was lovely on my Sound Canvas. As usual, I want more... ;) Well, you
folks spent $3 million on WC3; this time, spend the money on writers,
artists, and musicians, and give us more of what makes the game great!
(Fill it up!) I'm not sure what I like more, though; U7's environmentally
cued music, or U8's constant area-based music. Maybe a cross between the
two; have music playing more often, but allow each area to have a variety
of themes, so we don't get too many repeats. (Fill it up!)
Cut-scenes
----------
Flics? Who needs 'em! Serpent Isle and Ultima 8 had the right idea.
Cut scenes that use the graphic engine of the game to show what's going
on. This doesn't take up a whole lot of space, which allows you to spend
more space on music, in-game graphics, and conversations. However, I do
like a lot of cut scenes, no matter how they're implemented. They give
the game a feeling of moving along, as well as providing a little 'reward'
for the player. Using the in-game graphic engine allows you to include a
lot of these without disrupting the flow of the game. Whatever you do...
please -- no live actors. CGI looks great, and you could spend the money
on something much more entertaining (fill it up!).
Gameplay
--------
I really like the options the Avatar had in U8. Now, TEACH HIM HOW TO SWIM!
Ditch the required arcade jumping sequences... maybe this could be one of
the game options; or, you could simply allow another way past. Please add
the ability to target jumps. When was the last time you saw someone how
could jump exactly six feet -- no more, and no less?
Oh well.. that's as much as I can think of right now. I'm sure other people
will have plenty of other ideas for you.
Thanks for giving us the opportunity to make suggestions.
-Jim Little (ji...@teleport.com)
Mark R Johnson
Nice to see Origin seeking the advance input of it's customers. This is
a win-win strategy. AIMS and Stardock Systems used this approach when
developing Galactic Civilizations (OS/2 Space-War Strategy Game sort of
like Masters of Orion). And GalCiv turned out to be one awesome game!
>Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
>interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
>other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
>would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
>other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
>want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
>include than you?
>
>Thanks for your time,
>-Bmartin
I haven't bought ANY of the Ultima's since Ultima VI for one very simple
reason. You guys have totally dropped the ball and utterly failed to
support any sane method of memory management. First that Voodoo thing,
and then VCPI. (Or was it the other way around?) VCPI has been DEAD as
an industry standard for years. Voodoo was a pain in the butt. Neither
one of them will run under any of the newer advanced operating systems
makeing their way onto the market (OS/2, Win NT, Chicago). Plain and
simple, the one thing you can do to make ME (and anybody else that runs
OS/2/WinNT/Windows95) happy is support DPMI.
I played most of the ultimas from the first and second trilogy's, but
never really did get into the third. I've been running OS/2 on my
machine since version 1.3. Origin lost me as a customer when your games
stopped working under OS/2. Plain and simple. Want to get me and lots
of people like me back? Support DPMI and make sure your games works
under OS/2. I'll buy. Guaranteed. Otherwise, I'll take my business
elsewhere.
--
Mark R Johnson
m...@iastate.edu
<Team OS/2>
(finger for pgp key)
Net Surfer
Nice to hear that someone is interested what the gamers think!
I know UW1 and U8, and played Serpent Isle and UW2 for several hours.
What I liked on Ultima 8 were the graphics and the magic. The inventory was
very good, because all was where i put it (not as in Serpent Isle).
what I really hated was the arcade action. Those awful jumps: Jump, splash,
restore, 2 pixels back, jump, restore, one pixel left, jump, save .... This
was BORING.
The story was too linear. This means, that you have to do a lot of thing
after each other. Try to create a story where several quests are independent.
The puzzle I liked was the one with the three stepping plates and the
lifting stair. It has a LOGIC clue. I would like to have some puzzles which
you can solve after you spoke to several people.
The conversations were sometimes stupid, because people didn't know those
events that happened during the game (e.g.talking about Mordea after her
death). I would like to a portrait of my opponent. Some typing would be good
too. Also some bartering could be usefull in the game.
I missed a mapping function (like in UW1) in U8. It was boring to run
through those catacombs again and again, where every egde looked similar.
The combat mode was bad, too. I would like to fight in a 3D mode, with
several possibilities of techniques. The double clicking was bad! I liked
the combat mode in UW1, but it should be more realistic than that. Maybe you
can improve your skills during the game with several trainers. This should
not include getting some skill points, but to learn some new tricks about
fighting. There should be some tactic in fighting too, not only clicking as
fast as you can.
Thats all for the moment. Please excuse my bad english. Try hard on U9.
Thanx in advance.
Thorsten
Jim Little
Daniel Starr <dst...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>I. Interface suggestions
>II. Plot suggestions
Beautiful. I heartily second everything Daniel had to say. Especially the
plot suggestions. Everything he suggested seems to be doable, and would
also add a lot to the game.
I would like to add one thing:
>11. Genuine time pressure.
> Repeatedly emphasize the urgency of the situation - "The
>BigNastyFolks take more of us away each day." Count the number
>of visits I've made to cities so far. Trigger something
>upsetting every N+(1-4) visits. An army blockade? A fire? Lots
>of ways to make players' lives unpleasant without making the game
>unwinnable. Just make sure we know the time pressure exists.
"It's never tomorrow, it's always today." Bring back Ultima 5-like seasons.
Time should pass! In Ultima 7, there was a plaque that announced the
presence of 'The Avatars,' a musical group -- the date was always the same!
In addition to using Daniel's excellent city/movement-based model for
event triggering, add in a minimum time for each event to occur. I.e., if
I walk back and forth through the gates of Britain, I don't want an army
to suddenly start marching for the city. Put a minimum time frame in there
as well; once I walk into the city once, the counter isn't incremented
again until x time units have passed.
-Jim Little (ji...@teleport.com)
Paul Francis Gilbert
>>Hello There,
>>
>>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>>
I honestly think that the Ultima 7 part II was a pretty good character
interface, and would like to see that in Ultima 9. What I mean is, you could
call up your characters, and actually place the weapons in their hands, put
earrings on them, armour, etc. to see what they actually looked like with all
that on (a big plus over the Black Gate and Ultima 6 where you just had a few
circles). U8 whilst doing it sort of, didn't really do justice to the idea.
Plus of course, the Avatar should be allowed to be female. I enjoyed playing
as both sexed Avatars in both 6 and the 7's (I especially liked 7's multiple
character portraits.)
Plus PLEASE PLEASE bring back the ability to manipulate objects from a
distance. One of the worst things about U8 was having to get within a few feet
just to read those #@#@ signs which you should be able to read from distance
away, or trying to open a chest. While admittedly it did make for more realism
(such as areas which have chests, but have the floor trapped, but I think the
annoyance far outways it's usefullness as a construct.
I'll pass on the graphics of U8. They were pretty decent, although I agree
that the orhogonal view could do with some rethinking. Also IMHO it would be
better if the world become 'reconnected' again, rather that just joing
segments. Although I honestly don't know how you could achieve the rapid
load ins of new sections that U7 did in such high detail continously. Certainly
just going from CD would make the game very annoying if were to pause on you
every twenty steps. Although that's probably a programming problem, you might
want to consider at least installing some of the necessities to hard disk
(such as the graphic representation of the objects, leaving the world map on
the CD).
And finally, I really can't understand why the U8 team went to all the trouble
of disabling the cheat mode and removing the subdirectory that contained the
debugging files (some people who found the cheat said that there was some
directory it was looking for). Why dont you accept at the start that people
will eventually want to cheat to see all the hidden areas of the world, and
sell the cheat / debugging code as an add-on? (Sorta like how Silver Seed added
on all those macro keys). You'd definitely get tons of people buying it just so
they can warp and around and stuff around with the world. Makes more sense then
just trying to get rid of it, and it'd be a sure way to get extra revenue.
--
Paul Gilbert | s940...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au
Bach App Sci, Bach Eng | The opinions expressed are my own, all my own, and
Year 1, RMIT Melbourne | as such will contain no references to small furry
Australia | creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Derek Tolley
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members.
First of all (and briefly) the things I DON'T want to see:
(1) Any arcade puzzles
(2) Weird perspectives that prevent me (the player) from
seeing what my character would be able to see. No losing
objects under tables or getting stuck in narrow cave passages.
Things any good Ultima should have:
(1) Lots of interesting, in-character dialogue. This does
NOT necessarily mean millions of NPCs; it does mean that
what NPCs there are fit into their world, talk in character,
and advance BOTH the plot and the gaming atmosphere.
(2) A larger, diverse world. It's FUN to be exploring the
wilderness and suddenly find a small, hidden village. Don't
give everything away on the map.
(3) Smith, the talking horse, in some form.
Things I personally would like to see in an Ultima:
(1) No non-plot-relative combat. No random ghoul, mage, or
demon attacks. All combat occurs for a reason in the game; NPCs
may tell the player what those reasons are. This means bandits
may randomly attack the player when he is near their hideout, or
the road they frequent. NPCs could mention the bandits' existence,
and ask for help/ tell how to avoid them. Give a reason for
random combat, and if possible, tie it someway to the overall plot.
(2) The best monsters are humans (or humanoid). Random wolves
and such are cool for atmosphere in the woods, but enemies
with obvious evil motives are more fun to destroy. The best
Ultima villains are people like Blackthorne, who are dangerous
for more reasons than their combat skill.
And above all: No matter how cool something seems in design,
unless the player has an easy-to-use user interface to perform the
cool activity, it will only piss him off to do it. Coolness of
look falls way short in importance to ease of use, especially
when the player will spend many hours playing.
Derek Tolley
tol...@cs.ucf.edu
Ariel Cohen
>
> My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
> U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
> fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
> .
> .
Thanks for asking us. My suggestions would be:
1) Turn-based strategic combat.
2) Increase the importance of skill development.
3) Improve the interface to minimize the hassle of dealing with the inventory,
arming the party, casting spells, etc.
4) Stress variety rather than quantity.
5) Include some puzzles, riddles, tricky mazes, etc. to make the quests
more interesting.
6) Reduce the length of conversations with non-essential NPCs, or even
eliminate many of those conversations - there's no point in wading through
oodles of inane stuff said by an NPC who doesn't really have anything
interesting to say.
7) It would be nice if some NPC's competed with the player, or tried to
impede him, etc. It's boring when all the NPC's are basically passive and
confined to their towns while the player's party is the only itinerant
and active entity.
8) Make sure the game is solvable by people who don't want to resort to
reading the clue book.
9) Base the game on a good intense script so that it doesn't end up being a
game where you wonder around in a passive and static world, kill some
monsters, retrieve some items, blow up a doomsday machine, and all for some
obscure reasons. There should be a good story behind the game in which the
player plays a part (but not the only part).
10) The greatest challenge, I think, is to achieve a good balance among the
various components, so that playing the game is fun and not a hassle.
Cool graphics and sound are interesting for a short while; a well-balanced
game based on a good script can hold the player's interest for many hours.
Ariel Cohen
aco...@cs.ucsd.edu
Allen Kim
get your gaming ideas. If this starts a trend, I think the computer
gaming world will not only benefit, but be *revolutionized*. I just
hope that no wisecrack will start flaming you or impersonating you,
etc. If you don't know what I mean, check out the alt.* groups,
especially alt.games.mk and alt.games.doom.
I have enjoyed playing your Ultima series ever since Ultima IV, Quest
of the Avatar. I remember playing Ultima IV on my Atari 800XL home
computer (remember that?) for hours on end. For the Atari, it was
arguably the best game I ever played on it. Ultima V was good, as
well as Ultima VII and Serpent Isle when I upgraded my system back
then. My favorite, however, was Ultima VI. I really can't explain
why, except that you guys seemed to hit just the right combination of
game engine, story, and graphics.
No, I haven't played Ultima VIII, and from what I've seen on these
newsgroups, I don't plan to either. Oh well, I guess no award-winning
series is absolutely perfect.
Suggestions for Ultima IX, eh? This should be the grand finale
between the Guardian and the Avatar in Britannia, right? Well, I hope
you guys put as much effort, if not more, into this game as you are
putting into Wing Commander III. My ideas may not be much, but for
the sake of brainstorming:
1) Make a decision as to whether you will make the game engine reflect
Ultima IV, V, and VI or whether you will make the game reflect
Ultima VII. Both are great game engines, but the grid layout and
the turn-based movement of the 2nd trilogy won't combine well with
the real-time movement of Ultima VII.
2) If you go with the 2nd trilogy turn-based style of the game engine,
which happens to be my preference, make the combat reflect Ultima
VI. Each party member should either be assigned a combat tactic or
be controlled by the player. If possible, have the combat reflect
X-Com in certain ways, like time units, taking cover, and improving
skills by utilizing those skills, but don't lose the Ultima flavor.
3) If you stick with the Ultima VII style of combat, at least improve
the AI of the NPC's, including the party members and the enemy.
Also, friendly fire seemed to be a huge problem in Ultima VII,
especially when Iolo got the triple crossbow. Please solve that
problem.
4) Make the story VERY non-linear, but don't make the story just a
bunch of mini-quests like Might and Magic. (I hope you don't mind
me making references to other companies' games.) This is why
Ultima IV was so successful.
5) Avoid the scavenger hunts. The treasure map of VI, the search for
the answer to Alagner's riddle in VII, you get the idea. Try to
relate every search to the main storyline. I didn't see how
finding a certain treasure can be related to the theme of finding
the solution to the gargoyle problem.
6) Do away with the concept that you have to train every time you gain
a level. Have it so that people who carry a lot of stuff gain
strength with each level, those who move around a lot or use
crossbows gain dexterity, and those who fight a lot gain combat
experience. Leave training for magic and for inexperienced party
members.
7) Above all, I don't want to see anything but the classic orthodox
struggle between good and evil. One of the reasons why playing
Serpent Isle made me feel so uncomfortable was that I felt like I
was part of the end of Britannia. After all, when the Banes were
released by Batlin, only a handful of Britannians survived, right?
Also, that pentagram in Ultima VIII sure didn't make me feel any
better. Please leave all that new age stuff out of the storyline,
and stick to the system of the eight virtues standing up against
the Guardian and his evil.
Good luck with Ultima IX, guys. If you guys are truly striving to
learn from your past mistakes, then all of us Net surfers here will be
supporting you as much as possible.
- Allen "Ninja" Kim
(known as Arathorn in Britannia)
David Charles Jones
name of the person who said this, but my short term memory seems to be
impaired and I have no idea how to quote a previous message. I would like
to address the idea of the "classic orthodox struggle between good and evil"
(I know it was put something like that). I find myself disagreeing rather
heartily to this idea, simply because that is just not the way it is. What
you would be doing there by having a story revolve around that idea is just
another revamping of so many other cliche plotlines that exist in other
games, not to mention utterly defying the way things really are in reality
as we know it. The world and its machinations are not strictly black and
white, good and evil are in fact completely relative, and should be
considered as such when put into the storyline of a game. Twists and turns
and jumps and surprises in plot along those lines are incredibly interesting
and often insightful and thought provoking. I definitely do not want to see
just another holy crusade to stop the forces of evil. That would, IMHO,
make up just another piece of clicheware, and I doubt that I would get much
satisfaction from it. Another thing that bothers me a lot about that ideal
is that the standard method of carrying it out consists of the incarnation
of good (in this case, the Avatar) doing a whole lot of stuff that
eventually amounts to one thing, beating up the big nasty at the end (in
this case, the Guardian). If I were to count how many times such a
situation has been played out in books, games, or other such media, I would
be here for a very long time. When I play a game, ideally I do not want to
just win, I want to learn from it, and I believe that a scenario that
revolves around the destruction of the bad guy leaves nowhere near as much
room for insight as does a game that follows an alternate scenario. I am
not in any way trying to flame here, nor am I trying to push my ideas on
others, I am simply expressing my own views on the issue, and I thank you
all for your time.
--Nathan (the other guy on this account)
______________________________________________________________________________
Kinslayer Dragon | "All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one
-==(UDIC)==- | memory above all others, of him who brough the Shadow
arioch | and the Breaking of the World. And him they named
@csd.uwm.edu | Dragon." ----Eye of the World
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daniel Starr
II. Plot suggestions
1. No arcade sections. No arcade sections. No arcade sections.
"Arcade section" = any obstacle that a typical player has to
try more than three times to get past. Maybe even two times.
Absolutely the most annoying part of U8.
2. Pathfinding function (as in U7) is a must.
The second most annoying part of U8 was trying to find the
one tiny spot on the ledge where the game would let one climb. I
want to be able just to click where I want to be and let the
computer find the appropriate route. (This includes jumping.)
3. Lots of hotkeys.
I want to be able to hit (C) to get a list of spells to Cast
and (R) to Rest and so on. I do not like mouse-only interfaces.
And I'm tired of mucking about through my inventory all the time.
Speaking of which --
4. Special inventory for "typed" items (esp. reagents).
If I pick up yet another piece of sulphurous ash, I want the
game to automatically put it with the rest. In general I want as
much inventory handling automated as possible. Let there be a
"Reagent bag", "Weapons sack", etc.
5. Idiocy-free combat.
I do not ever again want to see my character sheath his
sword in the middle of combat in order to move. If I click on an
enemy, I want to move up to him and swing. If I click on a
location, I want to dash over there. I want my relevant objects
and a list of spells available by hotkeys, no inventory-mucking
required. If it makes the player look stupid or feel clumsy, get
rid of it.
6. View rotation.
I'm tired of not being able to see what's going on. And
it's very aggravating to knock a chest where you can't see it.
Alternatively a hotkey to turn all walls to transparent glass
would work quite well.
7. Automapping and/or lots of premade maps.
Do you have any idea how big those isometric places feel? I
want a nice 2D automap, or else a regular supply of 2D map
vendors and dead bodies with maps on them. Or both.
8. Text optionally visible during speech.
It was impossible to make out what Hydros was saying...
9. Full speech is NOT necessary.
Not if the storage required gets in the way of a rich,
multiple-paths, highly dynamic world.
II. Content suggestions
1. Game flags must make sense. Game flags must make sense.
Game flags must makes sense.
Whenever the game won't let one do X until one has done Y a
reason must be explicitly given. Nothing does more to destroy
the suspension of disbelief than a senseless requirement. "What,
if the dog sniffs the medallion the barrier around the castle
disappears? What the heck?" [In U8: Why wouldn't Hydros speak
to me until after I completed the Shrine of the Ancient Ones?
Why did I have to free Pyros before I could get the Ethereal
Travel spell? Stupid, stupid, stupid.]
2. Satisfying resolutions.
If I kill a local dragon I want every single villager to
thank me for it when they see me and most of them to have changed
habits as a result. If I save the world I want a big, flashing
YOU HAVE SAVED THE WORLD sign and I want every single citizen to
come up and shake my hand and tell me a personal anecdote about
how I have made their lives better. The closing animation should
be blindingly explicit and triumphant, and resolutions during the
game should be similarly direct. Don't assume I know I've done a
good deed, don't just tell me "You have done a good deed", SHOW
ME. There should be no doubt about the consequences of my
actions.
3. Evil people should be evil.
I want motivation. I want dead bodies and crying widows
strewn in the wake of my enemy. I want lots of HATE and MISERY
and ANGUISH to lay at the feet of my enemy.
4. Evil people should be evil during the game, too.
I want to make good friends and useful allies only to have
them kidnapped with taunting notes left behind. I want to see
innocents taken away screaming. I want Blackthorn and the
Shadowlords (U5) -- enemies who make my quest difficult on a
personal, direct and regular basis. I want personal reasons to
be upset with the enemy.
5. No unjustified red herrings.
No "tomb of Moriens" nonsense, please. If there are going
to be red herrings, put them in a situation where it's clear
there are false as well as true leads. If characters are going
to lie, their motivations should be made clear later on. Never,
ever assume the player will figure out why so-and-so did X. Make
it explicit.
6. No scavenger hunts.
The Avatar is a hero, not a catspaw. Don't give me lots of
directions -- give me clues I put together myself. "You got the
blackrock? Good. Now go to the Wisps with this book..."
7. Lots of small figure-it-out-yourself puzzles.
Using brain = fun. Give me lots of opportunities to piece
information together. I'm investigating the Widgets, say: an
apprentice says the Mage of Veils was interested in Widgets but
has now "vanished, I know not where"; but the innkeeper says that
a bard told him there was a carnival with caged Widgets in North
Vespers.... so where might the Mage of Veils be, hmm?
8. Lots of common knowledge.
Everyone in town should be able to give me directions to
buildings in town; and if there's a plague, everyone should have
something to say about it. "No man is an island."
9. Lots of [well-justified] surprises and mysteries.
If I want "Kill Foozle" I'll go play an SSI game :) There
should be multiple twists and turns -- as long as they are
properly explained afterwards. And make sure the player doesn't
have an opportunity to kill anyone ahead of schedule...
10. Lots of dynamism in the world.
Gypsies and bards who move from town to town. Roving
brigands. Armies on the march. Lots of things to keep the
Avatar on his toes. Just don't make any obvious links to
unrelated game events -- if the army marches into York right
after I free the Princess, every single time, it looks stupid.
Instead, try "The army will march into York as soon as the player
has completed one of plot objectives A, B, and C and has visited
1-6 (random) more cities." (Time-based flags don't work too well
if the player works quickly. Instead, increment the counter each
time the player goes into a city different from the last city
visited. Or count the number of conversations. Or both.)
11. Genuine time pressure.
Repeatedly emphasize the urgency of the situation - "The
BigNastyFolks take more of us away each day." Count the number
of visits I've made to cities so far. Trigger something
upsetting every N+(1-4) visits. An army blockade? A fire? Lots
of ways to make players' lives unpleasant without making the game
unwinnable. Just make sure we know the time pressure exists.
Let there be a wandering Oracle who requires onerous tasks
in return for hints. If you can't figure out where the Mage of
Veils is, you go hunt down the Oracle. This lets there be
serious brain-working puzzles without making the game impossible.
Just heavily advertise the Oracle, and make the tasks harder each
time. "Back again so soon? Good -- I need the skulls of three
dragons from the northern mountains..."
13. Avoid artificial / physical puzzles.
Lever puzzles and logic puzzles and word puzzles look and
feel contrived and have no role-playing in them at all. BORING.
Give me puzzles in the form of problems natural to the world --
"How can I find where the Mage of Veils has gone?" "Who killed
the smith? Why?" "What will persuade the Baron that I'm on his
side?" Puzzles should center around people, not things. Puzzles
should be solved by talking to and investigating people and
making deductions based on the results.
14. Give the player an advising companion to keep him going.
Let one or more of the NPCs have a ready answer to "what the
heck should I do now?" so that there's never any confusion.
"Well, I think we ought to try and find out where the Mage of
Veils went. Probably we should talk to and investigate the
townsfolk. If we can't figure it out ourselves, we should
probably seek the Oracle." Such an NPC could also serve as a
note-taker.
15. Motivation, motivation, motivation.
Why do I have to do X to win the game? Has this been made
clear to me? Why did Joe do Y? Has this been explained to me?
--
Daniel Starr | Graphics CPU demand will peak in 1995;
starr-...@yale.edu | AI is the processor hog of the future.
| --------------------------------------------------
"Scuppers. Hosepipe." | PC with 10^10 neurons: 40-80 years. (Moore's law)
Curt Hagenlocher
>Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
>interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
I hope you haven't learned the wrong thing from U8. Please don't abandon
change and innovation by trying to give people something comfortable and
familiar. Ultima 8's flaws have been discussed ad nauseaum. Here's what
I LIKED about the game.
o The graphics were beautiful.
o The background information on the world was great. One of
the best things about both Serpent Isle and Pagan was the fact
that they offered new worlds and new backgrounds to explore.
After U4-U7a, I feel like I know Britannia better than
I know Los Angeles. In U9, at least some time should have
passed in Brittania so that things have had a chance to evolve.
o I liked the various magic systems.
Finally, just out of curiosity, how much (if any) if U8 was 16-bit code?
The times I crashed, I noticed what appeared to be the standard Phar Lap
286 Dos-Extender register display. Is it possible that only small parts
of U8 were 32-bit code, and could this have explained the dismal
performance?
--
Curt Hagenlocher
c...@netcom.com
james beavens
>
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the
>RPG fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
As far as the interface is concerned, the key word is _CONVENIENCE_.
Here are some random thoughts:
- The magic system was pretty good in U8, but it was such a damn pain to
prepare a spell that I never bothered. You should have known there was
a problem when you had to _make_ the player cast spells to advance the
storyline.
- Casting spells was a pain too. I think it's time to rethink the whole
full-screen approach. Even something like a "tool bar" or something at the
bottom would be helpful, so we could perform actions like eating, casting
spells, resting, etc. with minimal effort.
- Inventory management should be much easier. When I find a nice shiny
sword or some reagents, I should spend a _maximum_ of 10 seconds putting
it where I want it. I like the idea of a reagent bag(s), a food bag(s),
etc.
- Don't include spells that will never be used. If beta-testers aren't
using certain spells when they play, then take them out. If you want
more spells to replace them, make sure they're worth using. Magic
should be used to make some tasks easier, not complicate things.
Finally, as far as storyline goes, I think that Ultime V had the best
one by far. I never finished U7 or U7.5, mainly because of the
interface problems mentioned above. I did finish U8, though, and it
just doesn't compare.
What I liked about U5 is the multiple threats that were everywhere.
Lord British is missing. Blackthorn is the evil tyrant. There are
Shadowlords roaming the countryside. Where do you start? It was
truly an exciting game.
For U9, there's obviously going to be the Guardian to worry about.
But what about other problems? What if somebody else has achieved
Avatarhood, and claims that you're washed up and no longer the one
for the job? What if Lord British died, and was replaced by someone
who just didn't like you? Give us choices that we don't want to
make. What if killing the Guardian will result in half of Britannia
dying, but giving him Britannia will save everyone (even if they are
slaves). Again, the whole thing with Blackthorn was great; he really
thought he was doing the right thing, and in the end I even felt
a bit sorry for him. Make _me_, the player, feel the conflict that
is happening in Britannia, and in the Avatar himself. That is what
a good RPG is all about.
Anyway, thanks for letting us bounce some ideas off you guys...
Jim
U8, but it was such a damn pain to prepare a spell that I never bothered
except in the places where we were supposed
--
Jim Beavens |"Early to rise and early to bed
Oregon State University | makes a man wise but socially dead."
Electrical & Computer Engineering |
bea...@ECE.ORST.EDU | -- Animaniacs
PAGAN LORD
First perspective RPGs may be the new thing, I find their combat
sequences hard to relate to role playing simply because winning usaual
relies on the players ability to press the mouse button rather than the
characters combat ability. However, the reason I like Betrayal at Krondor
is because it kept the first perspective contolled environment and fixed
the combat problem by goin to 3rd perspective (obvious statement). When
it comes to perspective, I have been debating on it for quite a while.
While 3rd person gives a more understandable veiwpoint for the player, it
usually will knock out certain things (like not being able to see certain
sides of buildings). The way I have fixed this problem is to do a cutaway
of the building you are standing by. What really is annoying though is
the fixed first perspective movement of Bards Tale and such.
Turned based combat (what you all used up to U6) I found worked the best
although it could get long and tedious, so maybe an option would be nice.
There is much more that I have noted from the 7 years of playing RPG's
(paper and computer), but it would take a while to type then all in. I
hoped this helped!.
-Phillip J. McCartey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
C.S. Major at Arkansas State University.
"One may be able to program, but not everyone can write a game."
-Me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
jim flynn
>>In article <bmartin.2...@origin.ea.com>, bma...@origin.ea.com (Brian Martin) writes:
>>>Hello There,
>>>
>>>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>>>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>>>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>>>
Plot, please, and a lot of it. Ultima 7 was a truly amazing game
because of just that -- the huge, engrossing plot -- not to mention
the palpable fear you felt as you kept stumbling across these murder
victims everywhere. Although U8 wasn't horrible on this point, it
certainly was lacking.
As for the solo Avatar, I really didn't mind it all that much in U8.
Half the time in U7 and 7.5, I would ditch all the members in my
party to do stuff alone anyway; they kept wandering off and getting
killed during combat. Solo isn't bad ... as long as you have good
NPC interaction (which U8 didn't have -- you'd think the people would
notice the flaming meteors and torrential rains maybe ...)
I'll risk going against popular opinion here and say that I actually
liked the magic system as it evolved through U8. I like mixing regents,
I LOVED the realism of having to arrange components around the penta-
gram in such-and-such an order (guess I got lucky with the pixels).
Please, don't simplify it to the point of making it boring.
Combat: I could stand the real time in U7, but in U8 it was ridiculous.
Fighting more than one creature at a time was impossible. Fighting
even one creature was more than a bit tough. :) I don't know what
the solution is (turn based seems a little clunky these days) but
it definitely needs to evlove.
I also thought the top-down dungeons were great -- in fact, even more
realistic than the first-person perspective. True, the U8 catacombs
got a bit annoying, but other than that, I liked the dungeons.
Finally, and I don't know how plausible this is, but could something
be done about the perpetually regenerating monsters? (most obvious
in U7) You don't know how annoying it is to -- let's say after clearing
all the dragons out of that one dungeon -- to go back and find every
single blessed one alive again. That's not even realism -- just
annoying.
I'm looking forward to U9. Let's get back to the Guardian, where this
trilogy belongs, and make it a great finale.
-jim
p.s. - Don't scrap the running and jumping and climbing -- PLEASE.
The physics, at least, kept the U8 world fun. Climbing walls,
running across rooftops. Kinda neat, actually. Just get rid of the
Super Mario Bros. bonus stages (jump, jump. splash, restore saved
game).
--
-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-
Jim Flynn || "It is Clarissa, he said.
aut...@eden.rutgers.edu || For there she was." -Virginia Woolf
William Harris
>would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board.
>Myself and other U9 team members will be watching for your comments
>and suggestions. We want to make a game that you want to play, so
>who better to tell us what to include than you?
You asked for it. :-)
#1 on my hate list in U8 was the jumping. Save/jump/die/restore was
stupid. It could have been a nifty feature, but it was implemented in
the worst possible way.
My biggest quibble with U4 through U6 (I didn't play U7) was that it
seemed you increased the game's complexity by adding pointless layers
onto subquests, like having to talk to the Mayor to learn that the
farmer knows the location of a note that leads to the key needed to
release the prisoner... (you get the picture.) Try to add complexity
by a deeper story, not via a lot of busy-work.
William Harris (Standard disclaimers)
will...@delphi.com
w.ha...@genie.geis.com
75176...@compuserve.com
KROMHOUT D.M.
> seems just a touch too random (which is, I guess, pretty realistic). I
> thought U4's system was pretty good at allowing you a bit of strategy, but it
> got slow after a while. One of the things I liked about the 7's was that as
> the game progressed, and your characters were stronger, combat wasn't an issue
> for the lower monsters. All the way through U4 you had to hassle with the
> combat screen and moving guys around, etc.
1) The turn based system, like Wizardry 7 or something so you can specify
who will kill which target
2) The Ultima 7 system, which I found very pleasing yet sometimes irritating
because some idiot in the party was wielding a fire-doom staff !
> I think between the key ring and the auto-feed hot-key, you guys reached a
> happy medium between having to actually buy food find keys vs. a lot of hassle
> in manipulating these items.
it's nice that you can have a floating menu on screen to get items from but
I'd rather have some group screen with everybody's inventory so you can
drag/drop all you want.
> I don't know how, but the NPC interfacing still needs work. Maybe going back
> to typing key words wouldn't be so bad as an option. It encourages paying
> more attention and *gasp* keeping better notes.
in for instance Wizardry. Maybe the important leads can be done with the
U7 system and for fun, you can use the keywords. Wait: maybe for the main
story, you can use the keywords and for the side-quests (like some lover-
getting-back-together thing :) you can use keywords !!
> Likewise, I am anti-automap. Part of the thrill of the dungeons was figuring
> them out. In the more challenging ones, I ended up making maps for myself,
> but I think the automap feature makes some of this too easy.
a positioning system. (again: like in U7)
> I'm sure that the graphics and sound will be awesome, but don't falter on this
> at all. In addition to being a good game with a good plot, the more "real" it
> seems, the better.
> Also, I'm still pretty partial to the first person perspective in dungeons.
> This would get to be a bit tedious in the regular world, but maybe go to a
> system like U4 with separate town/dungeon/wilderness interfaces. A first
> person perspective in some of the towns might be kind of neat... The problem
> is where do you break it off. Also, a party of eight can see more than a
> party of one. In a dungeon, there would have to be some way of seeing what's
> behind you (i.e. a rear guard).
> I actually like how much of a pain in the a** it is when it gets dark. This
> makes things much more realistic.
>
> Most important - keep the skill required to finish the game pretty high. I
> like seeing my character progress. I also like learning some of the tricks of
> the game on my own. Don't make things too obvious or even necessarily
> consistent with previous games.
> Also, there's a thread that's been floating here (it seems like) forever.
> It's called Origin CD ONLY FOREVER or something. There's a huge debate about
> pushing system capacity and designing for high end systems. IMHO, assuming a
> mid 1996 release date, the game should run adequately on a fast 486, but
> exploit the features of a Pentium for best performance. By the time it is
> released, this may not even be good enough. Don't sacrifice the game for
> downward compatibility. I'd rather wait for a new system to play the best
> game possible than get a game that's no better than what we already have.
Sayonara
Kimono
This message was brought to you by: D.M.Kr...@kub.nl
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Freddie
Scary: "And all the women that you meet look just like me"
Ronnie
Sad: "The best thing I can say, after all this time
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Queen
Alexx Kay
I've got a lot of "me too!"s and a few of my own suggestions here:
dst...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Daniel Starr) writes:
>I. Interface suggestions
>II. Plot suggestions
>
>I. Interface suggestions
>
>1. No arcade sections. No arcade sections. No arcade sections.
> "Arcade section" = any obstacle that a typical player has to
>try more than three times to get past. Maybe even two times.
>Absolutely the most annoying part of U8.
What he said.
Primary rule: The interface is there to help the player do what he wants.
If he has to battle the interface, he won't be interested in battling the
bad guys. Puzzles should use brain power, not ultra-finicky reflexes.
>3. Lots of hotkeys.
> I want to be able to hit (C) to get a list of spells to Cast
>and (R) to Rest and so on. I do not like mouse-only interfaces.
>And I'm tired of mucking about through my inventory all the time.
Speaking of the keyboard, bring back typing speech options! Replay value
is greatly enhanced if you can (if you remember) cut to the chase of a
conversation, not wade through 15 menus. Also, since one just ends up
traversing the whole menu tree to see what's under all the leaves, this
leads to a feeling that you're doing "busywork" to get the game to cough
up info.
>5. Idiocy-free combat.
> I do not ever again want to see my character sheath his
>sword in the middle of combat in order to move. If I click on an
>enemy, I want to move up to him and swing. If I click on a
>location, I want to dash over there. I want my relevant objects
>and a list of spells available by hotkeys, no inventory-mucking
>required. If it makes the player look stupid or feel clumsy, get
>rid of it.
I have yet to see an Ultima where "Flaming Oil" didn't kill more party
members than monsters, because the NPCs were too stupid to walk around
the damn stuff. This is true both in combat and normal walking around.
I was very annoyed at U7 when I found that, although if I was careful,
I could notice and avoid caltrops, my party members never would. Ditto
for lava that had safe paths in it. Similar problems in U7 with the
Firedoom Staff always seeming to get used in close combat. Give these
guys half a brain! No character should do something obviously life-
threatening without very good reason.
>6. View rotation.
> I'm tired of not being able to see what's going on. And
>it's very aggravating to knock a chest where you can't see it.
>Alternatively a hotkey to turn all walls to transparent glass
>would work quite well.
Yes! No more silly myths about not having doors on half your walls...
>8. Text optionally visible during speech.
> It was impossible to make out what Hydros was saying...
Yah.
Further comments:
The game should be playable lots of different ways. If I want to go
solo, I should be able to go without a party. The old ways of customizing
your characters gender/race/morals all helped a *lot* with character
identification.
Speaking of characters, bring back the portraits. If you want an
improvement, try giving each character a few different expressions.
Combat should be more tactically oriented, less arcade-ish. I liked the
U5/6 combat routines. On the other hand, I liked the feature of the U7
system that, once you had reached sufficiently high levels, you could
essentially ignore combat with low-level monsters. I spent too much time
in U5 fighting screens full of bats and the like.
>II. Content suggestions
>
>1. Game flags must make sense. Game flags must make sense.
> Game flags must makes sense.
> Whenever the game won't let one do X until one has done Y a
>reason must be explicitly given. Nothing does more to destroy
>the suspension of disbelief than a senseless requirement. "What,
>if the dog sniffs the medallion the barrier around the castle
>disappears? What the heck?" [In U8: Why wouldn't Hydros speak
>to me until after I completed the Shrine of the Ancient Ones?
>Why did I have to free Pyros before I could get the Ethereal
>Travel spell? Stupid, stupid, stupid.]
Yes! For that matter, I think that *restrictive* game flags should be
kept to a minimum. Yes, the world should react to what I do, but flags
are often transparently arbitrary. If you want to keep someone away
from somewhere until late in the game, put a really-hard-to-kill
monster or somesuch in front of it; not a wall that vanishes when he
does 'X'.
Also, keep restrictions on travel to a minimum. I was *very* annoyed
at Serpent Isle and U8 for the limited ability to be a 'tourist'.
Why do you include a map at all, if you won't let a player roam the
world.
>2. Satisfying resolutions.
> If I kill a local dragon I want every single villager to
>thank me for it when they see me and most of them to have changed
>habits as a result. If I save the world I want a big, flashing
>YOU HAVE SAVED THE WORLD sign and I want every single citizen to
>come up and shake my hand and tell me a personal anecdote about
>how I have made their lives better. The closing animation should
>be blindingly explicit and triumphant, and resolutions during the
>game should be similarly direct. Don't assume I know I've done a
>good deed, don't just tell me "You have done a good deed", SHOW
>ME. There should be no doubt about the consequences of my
>actions.
Yes! Good example here would be Martian Dreams, which had a lot of
'end-game' speeches people could give to you.
Also, people should react not only to the end-game, but to *all*
significant (to them, at least) changes in the game-world. If I go
back to a town after a lot of local adventures, I want the NPCs to
have heard about some of them, and react.
No Generic People! (Except maybe guards). One of the best things about
U7 was all the little life-stories in Brittania, and the fact that most of
them *weren't* directly tied to the main plot.
>4. Evil people should be evil during the game, too.
> I want to make good friends and useful allies only to have
>them kidnapped with taunting notes left behind. I want to see
>innocents taken away screaming. I want Blackthorn and the
>Shadowlords (U5) -- enemies who make my quest difficult on a
>personal, direct and regular basis. I want personal reasons to
>be upset with the enemy.
Yes, and see also Time Pressure, below.
>7. Lots of small figure-it-out-yourself puzzles.
> Using brain = fun. Give me lots of opportunities to piece
>information together. I'm investigating the Widgets, say: an
>apprentice says the Mage of Veils was interested in Widgets but
>has now "vanished, I know not where"; but the innkeeper says that
>a bard told him there was a carnival with caged Widgets in North
>Vespers.... so where might the Mage of Veils be, hmm?
Inferring connections is *much* more satisfying than being handed an
itinerary of tasks to do and places to go.
>8. Lots of common knowledge.
> Everyone in town should be able to give me directions to
>buildings in town; and if there's a plague, everyone should have
>something to say about it. "No man is an island."
Yes, and this is another argument for ditching the menu interactions and
going back to the keyboard. We all *have* keyboards, why ignore them?!
Good Example: in U5, most NPCs had interesting things to say when prompted
with "Shadowlord", "British" and "Blackthorn".
>10. Lots of dynamism in the world.
> Gypsies and bards who move from town to town. Roving
>brigands. Armies on the march. Lots of things to keep the
>Avatar on his toes. Just don't make any obvious links to
>unrelated game events -- if the army marches into York right
>after I free the Princess, every single time, it looks stupid.
>Instead, try "The army will march into York as soon as the player
>has completed one of plot objectives A, B, and C and has visited
>1-6 (random) more cities." (Time-based flags don't work too well
>if the player works quickly. Instead, increment the counter each
>time the player goes into a city different from the last city
>visited. Or count the number of conversations. Or both.)
>
>11. Genuine time pressure.
> Repeatedly emphasize the urgency of the situation - "The
>BigNastyFolks take more of us away each day." Count the number
>of visits I've made to cities so far. Trigger something
>upsetting every N+(1-4) visits. An army blockade? A fire? Lots
>of ways to make players' lives unpleasant without making the game
>unwinnable. Just make sure we know the time pressure exists.
YESYESYES! Plot Events which are *obviously* triggered by player
actions, but in the context of Brittania are independent or time-
based really tend to ruin the suspension of disbelief. Might be a
good idea to have customizability of this, a la System Shock, although
I think Daniel's ideas here are *much* more intruiging than a simple
time limit.
As a bad example, in U7, The members of the Fellowship that you try to
trace have *always* just left wherever you are until the end game. This
feels way artificial. Time should pass, both for players and NPCs.
>12. Rewards for the clever and alternatives for the rest.
> Let there be a wandering Oracle who requires onerous tasks
>in return for hints. If you can't figure out where the Mage of
>Veils is, you go hunt down the Oracle. This lets there be
>serious brain-working puzzles without making the game impossible.
>Just heavily advertise the Oracle, and make the tasks harder each
>time. "Back again so soon? Good -- I need the skulls of three
>dragons from the northern mountains..."
Repeat after us: Non-linear. Customizable. Multiple Paths.
One of the major plusses of Myst (and to a lesser extent, U7) was
multiple possible endings, including bad ones. If no matter what I do,
the Guardian *doesn't* win, then I feel less involved in stopping him.
A spectrum of Bad-Soso-Good endings would be interesting, and add replay
value.
One final comment:
One of the things I missed in U8 was the element of moral choice. The
Avatar should have to make hard decisions, and they should *matter*. When
I was faced with the choice of betraying one of two necromancers, I thought
I had such a choice, but a little save-and-restore exploring showed that the
two paths were virtually identical. Choices should make a difference.
Blackthorn's death-threat in U5 came close to this, but did not go far
enough, IMHO.
Alexx
Al...@netcom.com
"The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really
are is that you very often succeed."
-- from The Magician's Nephew
Frank vd Eijkhof
>bma...@origin.ea.com (Brian Martin) wrote:
>>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>Thanks for asking us. My suggestions would be:
>1) Turn-based strategic combat.
Please not totally; this is not a strategic game!
>2) Increase the importance of skill development.
Yes; don't use that strange, far to simple idea of u8 but more of u7, and
indeed make this developement more important.
>3) Improve the interface to minimize the hassle of dealing with the inventory,
> arming the party, casting spells, etc.
Aye to that, to.
>4) Stress variety rather than quantity.
Although quantity improves the feeling of a real world.
>5) Include some puzzles, riddles, tricky mazes, etc. to make the quests
> more interesting.
>6) Reduce the length of conversations with non-essential NPCs, or even
> eliminate many of those conversations - there's no point in wading through
> oodles of inane stuff said by an NPC who doesn't really have anything
> interesting to say.
NO WAY! You are much to famous by your slogan 'Origin creates worlds'; I
prefer a complex framework to involve all/most of the conversation of all the
NPC's (in a city). If necessary, give NPC's some idle talk, but don't remove
the complexity! u8 had FAR too few people.
>7) It would be nice if some NPC's competed with the player, or tried to
> impede him, etc. It's boring when all the NPC's are basically passive and
> confined to their towns while the player's party is the only itinerant
> and active entity.
>8) Make sure the game is solvable by people who don't want to resort to
> reading the clue book.
>9) Base the game on a good intense script so that it doesn't end up being a
> game where you wonder around in a passive and static world, kill some
> monsters, retrieve some items, blow up a doomsday machine, and all for some
> obscure reasons. There should be a good story behind the game in which the
> player plays a part (but not the only part).
>10) The greatest challenge, I think, is to achieve a good balance among the
> various components, so that playing the game is fun and not a hassle.
> Cool graphics and sound are interesting for a short while; a well-balanced
> game based on a good script can hold the player's interest for many hours.
And, as many said before, don't make the game linear, but make subquests,
maybe even more ways to solve the game etc.
>
>Ariel Cohen
>aco...@cs.ucsd.edu
Frank van den Eijkhof (feij...@cs.ruu.nl)
Andrew Luyt
In a previous article, bma...@origin.ea.com (Brian Martin) says:
>Hello There,
>
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
Something I most definately do NOT want to see is arcade aspects of any
kind.
>Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
>interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
>other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
>would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
>other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
>want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
>include than you?
A few things I have on my wish list: NPC's who, like in Wizardry VII,
took action on their own (using information you traded with them to get
items before you, for instance). A non-linear plot, one that can
unfold as I explore, not one that appears at only certain points in
the game. A party system similar to Ultima VII, except that feeding
members by hand will not be necessary, and a revamped AI so that Iolo
won't keep shooting me in the back. Intelligent puzzles that require
thought to overcome, not simply the manipulation of objects.
Lastly, I wouldn't mind if the game came out on the release date. :)
--Andrew Luyt
The Hermit
It would be interesting to see another avatar show up while you've been
gone, or at least some NPC trying to "finish the game" on their own.
It seems none of the Britannians have the motivation to do anything without
having the avatar lead them around. Be nice to see someone go out on their
own initiative. In Ultima 4, How would it have been different had their
been an independent character trying to become the avatar? I wouldn't have
tried it then since U4 was a different type of game. But for someone else
to be going around, trying to save the world on their own time, could lead
to some interesting problems. All RPGs seem to have at least one big
artifact you need to finish the game. What if someone beats you to it?
In a SNES game called The 7th Saga, seven different people are all searching
for the same 7 objects. Twice in the game the NPCs get there ahead of you,
and you have to decide how to get what you need - by joining them, or
fighting them. I'd like to see some more active NPCs, along these lines.
the views and opinions expressed by The Hermit are not necessarily those of
The Hermit
"who needs truth if it's dull?" mason williams the exciting accident
Choy Pui Yin Irwin
>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
>interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
>other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
>would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
>other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
>want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
>include than you?
Optimal U9 = Plot as grand as U4 + Monster toughness & treasure system of U5 +
Combat system of U6 + NPC Interactive system of U7 + Graphics & sound of U8
Well, I know it might be too demanding ..... :-)
Irwin
--------------------------------------------------
Choy Pui Yin Irwin [e-mail: irwi...@cuhk.hk]
Year 3/4, Decision Sciences & Managerial Economics
Business Administration
Shaw College, The Chinese University of Hong Kong
Xylothan
: My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
: U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
: fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
Thanks for asking for input. It is good to see that your not high upon
a pedistal and will to ask what we want...
: Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
: Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
: learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
This is the best news I have heard about Ultima 9... U4 is my favorit
and what define Ultima to me. If you can capture U4 'essence' and place
it in my, you will have a surefire seller.
: interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
: other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
: would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
: other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
: want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
: include than you?
=======
What should U9 include: (imho)
1. More character interaction and personalities.
Things like Dupre, Shamino and Iolo fighting make me laugh...
always good to have lots of humor. Lots of people to take to with
personalities makes the game more intersting... I don't want to have to
talk to drones to get infomation... but if they are fun to talk to then I
will look forware to talking to the next person. Also, makes the other
people more diverse... How about NPC that can use magic AND be in your
party!
2. Something besides the 'killing the Guarding' point..
Since the Avatar has just trashed all his virtues to get off
Pagan, maybe he should have to re-affirm them. Maybe help in 'restoring'
Brittania since it got so screwed by the imbalance in 7.5. Maybe have to
revisit the shrines... or rebuild them since they were not so hot in U7.
3. Add *LOTS* of detail
Things like using flour and water to get dough and putting it in
the oven to make breat. Little things like that make the game more
enjoyable. If 'you create worlds' you should create things that are in
the world... just not the land and people. :) Oh... Add multiple
scheduals in the characters usecode. ie, one day they make eat later
than noraml. One day they make make potions, another day sleep in late.
Hey, why not a random schedual. This would boost replay value! Why not
let the Avatar run a shop... let poeple come in and buy stuff. Even get
an appentace or something... this would help him earn money for reagents
and stuff!
4. Higher graphic resolutions
Sorry, but mode 13h (320x200 256color) graphics are not cutting it
anymore. Time to go to mode 101h (640x480 256color).
5. Full Sound support
Please make sure that you use the sound card to its FULLEST.
16-Bit sound is always good... :)
6. Larger world.
Take the size of U7.5 or U7... I would want something 4 times as
big to explore (might need 4 cloth maps then.. :). In U7 you had to take
things out to make it fit in the land... ie Yew was gone and some towns
were 'small'. Make it BIG!.
7. Make sure you use every computer resource.
Many games don't use all of my memory. Why not use it. If I
have 8 megs, use all of it to reduce disk access or something of your
choice.
8. New inventory interface
The paperdoll system is really good, but something needs to be
done about how your inventory is setup. Leave items were you put them
(like in U8). Also create items like a fanny pack or something... My
backpack always gets to full to fast!
9. New talking interface
I **REALLY** miss being able to talk to people by typing what *I*
want to say. But if you decide to stick with the mouse point-and-click,
I will live. Also please give the Avatar some kind of personality.. it
U8 the Avatar looked like a complete dork repeating everything someone said.
10. Make the game COMPLETELY non-linear
In U7.5 I had to first go to Monitor... then Fawn.... then Sleeping
Bull... then Moonshade.... then Monk Isle.... sigh. Boring. In U7 or
U4, I could go anywere, regardless of the plot, do other side plots, and
come back later. Thats cool. Don't forget... add MANY MANY MANY side
plots. Getting distracted in Ultima is fun.
11. If the game is not CD only....
Include the speach pack...
12. New player's view point
U8 was cool, but things got lost behind stuff to often. It would
be fine if you could rotate the view ala SimCity 2000 (but that takes up
alot of memory and space). U7/U7.5 was not back... U6's was good also.
Don't try to fix what's not broke unless you know the fix will not brake
it.
13. Convert characters!!!!
I want to be able to convert my charatcer for Ultima 4 to Ultima
9!!! :) Or U7/U7.5 to U9. I don't have a character for U8 anymore but
you should add it too. :)
14. Gender selection!
What happened to this in U8?
15. Character portrats
About 5 male and 5 femle should do it... don't forget to add in
NPC ports....
16. More humor of OSI events..
We love to find hidden gems like that sign falling on Richard. :)
17. Moongates
Please? How about a side quest to restore the moongates to there
working order... say maybe a meteor falls to Brittana made of a special
BlackRock. Chisel a few new moonstones. Oh.. And please resynch the
moongates to the 2 moons! I liked how the moongates worked in 4 & 5.
18. Fix the magic system.
How about adding a special item for spells (kind like the key
ring). A reagent bag would be perfect!! All the reagents that you
put into your inventory should be placed in the bag automaticly... Have
the bag keep the sorted. Also don't fill the spell list with useless
spells. Ignite? Douse? Etc... blah. How about a Web spell... or a
Dust Cloud? How about -Inv Vas Grav Corp- (check U5.. Death Wind rules!)
19. Some better puzzels
U8 had what beside the jumping puzzles? Tower of hanoi?
Yippie. How about really indepth puzzles.
20. Add complex detail to world
How about more plots or sub plots on how makes up an Avatar and
its virtue... Or what makes magic tic? How about the 'Void'?? Take a
look at U4... learing about the virtues and becoming an Avatar was
awesome.
21. New combat system
This real time combat has to go... It just isn't fun. Starting
combat and then having the computer take over is boring! Maybe take some
of the 'DarkSun' combat elements and add them in. PLEASE at least stop
*combat* when I open my spell book or backpack!! I don't care if people
do other things though..
22. New monster types
Include some new monster types... and add lots of them. Also
don't just add generic-run-of-the-mill type monsters. Why just have
"Dragons" when you could have a "Wind Dragon", "Prismatic Dragon" and a
"Dimention Dragon"?? Have fun creating cool funky stuff!
23. Included manuals and trinket....
Take a look at what the manuals from U8 were.... just standard
Pagan lore and junk etc... In the Ultima 4 box I got a nice standard
manual with monsters and stuff.. AND a seperate book for spells. THAT
WAS COOL! Both books had Britannian runes all around it. This is the
sign that someone cared to put the time into making it awesome! Also
don't add a chezzy gift, add something with a little bit of quality, like
tha Anka from U4 was. (Anyone as crazy as me? I can read & write in
those runes... a sign that I might play Ultima to much!)
25. CD sound track!
PLEASE!!! *MANY* would love a CD of all the music from U4-U9..
and if you do make one, please make sure that EA US does know about it...
EA UK are the only ones that seem to know that Origin soundtracks exist.
26. More quotes!! :)
27. Character classes!
What happened to the gypsy??? I loved that!
28. More weapons and weapon types.
I like finding all the special weapons... Things like the
lightning whip and magebane was cool! Add lots of special things like
that. Also make sure I can view the 'stats' on that weapon. I know to
know how much better it is and what it's special effects are.
29. (in my best Alladin genie voice) "Mode of transportation!"
Magic carpets, horses, and ships. Heck where did the ballon go?
:) Add something more exciting than the old ankle express.
30. Don't forget Smith!!!!!
31. Make level advancement harder...
i like how you have the spell casting level requirments for
U7... but when I can cast level 8 spells after only a short while it is
no fun. You should have to work at geting the experiance needed to cast
those speels.
32. MAJOR plot twists
Something like a really important person being evil... or how
about the Avatar 'resurecting Moandin, Minax, and Exdous to help you
fight the Guardian... something REALLY big.
33. Map notes feature
How about when the map pops up, I have the option of write notes
on it.... this would help keep track of place at obscure locations.
34. Improve dungeon style
I liked how dungeons were in U4 & U5... hallways with rooms and
stuff. That was cool. How about the Ultima Underworld interface when
walking around... and then Overhead in a Room! *THAT* would be
*AWESOME*! (yes I'm dreaming...)
=======
What NOT to include: (imho)
1. Jumping w/ moving/sinking platfomes (and puzzles using them)
... Not really much to say. There action, not RPG. I have
never hated them with such a passion since U8. :(
2. VOODOO
'Nuff said. :)
3. Timed text!
When I am done reading it, I will click for the next part. I
don't want the computer going on.... This makes it easier for those that
write stuff down... they don't miss stuff then.
4. That annoying install beep from Ultima 7
5. Fire 'sroom like objects.
Those mandatory (seemingly) hits REALLY suck.
6. Fuzzy plot points..
What I mean by this is like what you guys did with the Morian's
Birthpalce stuff in U8. Make sure that when a quest is finished you know
it. Don't have the character go on a quest that he can't finish.
7. This way only plots..
Don't make it so I *HAVE* to ruin my virtues just to survive.
That sucked in U8... An Avatar would not do that! There is always a
better option...
======
Some general suggestions for Origin...
How about an FTP site? I would love to get snapshots/avi(s)/fli(s) of
your upcoming games and demos from there.
An *active* public releations person on the c.s.i.p.g.* groups. Take a
look at Working Designs (a Sega 3rd party). They have someone here who
is nice and responsive. The best support for questions from him. They
even e-mailed a response to me on a -sunday- (same day I mailed the
question.) THAT is good public relations and support from a company.
An Ultima mailing list with official news/updates etc. (E-mail or
snail-mail).
=====
Well... I have kinda run dry on suggestions and options for the
moment. Hope you guys find some of this useful.
Anybody: Did I leave anything out??! :)
One last thing... if you guys are really unsure if you should add an
option or how to do something, either A) ask here for opinions, or B)
plug in a copy of Ultima 4.
Just my $69.99 (or whatever the retail price of U9 will be)
-- Jason
(I can't belive I spent 2 hours write this follow-up..)
--
"In another world, in a time to come" ... maybe Ultima will return.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
When your enemy brings up your | Jason's Sega Page (for 32X & Saturn!)
past, remind him of his future | http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill931
j...@nmpou.nmp.nokia.com
In article <bmartin.2...@origin.ea.com>, bma...@origin.ea.com (Brian Martin) writes:
|>Hello There,
|>
|>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
|>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
|>
|>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
|>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
|>other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
|>would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
|>other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
|>want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
|>include than you?
|>
|>-Bmartin
|>
I'd like to see a memory manager which can run under OS/2 (and WARP).
I'm very disappointed when I can't load SB16 ASP sound drivers and set sound or
speech volume for Ultima 7 Serpent Isle CD-ROM version (because lack of
conventional memory -your memory manager is incompatible with emm386 or
anything else.) My sound card is connected to external stereo amplifier, but I
have to adjust amplifier volume almost to maximum if I want to hear anything
(another improvement - could volume be adjusted during the game)
It would be nice to be able load smartdrive to improve loading and game speed,
too.
Have you realized how many of us have a SVGA graphics card today? I'm going
to buy all your games which support 640x480x256 graphics ( or 800x600x256 or
more colours - up to 24 bit modes). I don't think the speed would be a big
problem - most of us have at least 486/66, and with clever programming you can do
allmost anything with this kind of machine (and surely Ultima 7-style games).
Jukka
Wishnu Prasetya
something new:
In Ultima 7 we have a party of, what, 8 peoples? There is some limited
ability to auto-pilot them using rudimentary command like run, charge,
or defend. Now, it will be a revolution if you can give us ability to
program party members action. Something like:
Iolo:
INIT no_init_spell = TRUE
IF HP_critical critical /\ HAS_Heal_Potion Iolo THEN
DO WITH PRIORITY 5 Use_Heal_Potion Iolo friend ;
IF round < 1 /\ no_init_spell /\
DO WITH PRIORITY 1
BEGIN
spell := pick {Prayer, Invisibility, Strengh} ;
Cast Iolo Iolo spell ;
no_init_spell := FALSE ;
END ;
DO WITH PRIORITY 2
BEGIN
IF no_Enemy_Spell_Casters THEN
Use Iolo Bow (Weakest_Foe)
ELSE Use Iolo Bow (pick Enemy_Spell_Casters) ;
and so on....
Hey, we can even let the users program the monsters. You know what,
you should deliver a monster compiler with Ultima9, that way, we can
custom the AI of your monster. Maybe you can even make a competition
of who makes the most interesting (not the thoughest!) monster!
You know, an interesting monster is a monster that is tough, but does
make mistake once and a while, like we all living beings do.
--Jade--
Josh Lindenmuth
that will be interesting to the thrill seeking players, while also making
something that the die-hard RPGers will enjoy. U8 was a step in the right
direction, but it ended up swinging too much towards the thrill seekers.
A game that has a lot of interaction, and the ability to do almost everything
in that's possible in real life (that doesn't necessarily mean having 400
frames for the avatar -- just that he can interact with almost ANYTHING). U7
was probably my favorite Ultima because of the large world and numerous quests
along with great graphics. Add to that a little less linearity, multiple ways
to come to complete the quests, and high interactivity. This should entail a
blockbuster game. Also remember that the people here are all die hard RPGers.
If you only make the game for them, then your sales will not be nearly as high
as if you make the game for the ENTIRE market. The ultimate purpose of making
a game is to make money (which is too bad).
Josh
Nightfox
: In article <bmartin.2...@origin.ea.com>, bma...@origin.ea.com (Brian Martin) writes:
: >Hello There,
: >
: >My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
: >U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
: >fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
: >
Thanks very much for listening (reading) our comments.
So you've learnt from Ultima 8. Please don't forget about the good points of
Ultima 8. The good points being that it was a very good Rpg type of game,
where the player had to do things, and really interact with the world. I
absoultely loved the magic system in U8. Things like actually creating that
wand of fireball, instead of stumbling across one every once in while.
Actually mixing the regeants like we had to back in U5, the combat system,
you really are on the right track, if you could improve it. It was once
again interactive, where we tell the avatar what to do.
Ways to improve the combat system are to use keys, that way the avatr can
have more control over what he does. I don't know how many times I want to
swing, but double clicked to fast, and ended up blocking instead, which by
the way was utterly useless. So make blocking actually effective.
The world in U8 was kind of good in places as well. Please keep climbing,
running, jumping, I can do that in the real world, so their fore, since the
Avatar is from earth, so can he. But I can do more than that, I can also
swim, climb back down, I've never tried to ride a horse, but people can. So
the activiities that can be done by the average person, should also be able
to be done by the avatar. Please re-introduce ship travel as well.
Tell your world builders to play the Ultima 7 games and to take note of some
things, such as the royal mint be swapped by a lighthouse (speaking of
lighthouses, re-introduce them, I was completely blown away when I saw the
light house effects in U5, it took me quite a while to pick my jaw up off
the ground, and I played U5 whilst waiting for U8...)
Also more textures for some of theose areas as well, sometimes whilst
playing U8, I found it had to tell the difference between in door and
outdoor areas. Bring back night and day, every since U5, night and day has
been a part of Brittania (I wonder what the people thought when they first
saw the sun go down hmmm...) Sorry, couldn't resist :)
One problem I had with U8, was getting a good conversation out of someone.
When we did get one, it was good, and long and realistic, but those
instances were few and far between. In U7, everyone had a story to tell, and
it made me feel as if I was in Brittania. Some conversations were long, some
short, but it seems as if the world was full of people. In U8, maybe it was
the intention to make the world seem dead, and without hope, because no one
was real interested in speaking to the Avatar. Also have conversation trees,
where conversation can go down several paths. It gets kind of pointless to
be given a list of options, like in the Serpent Isle, where you're
everntually going to klick on all options anyway. Keep the option where the
Avatar can leave a conversation at any time though.
Automapping is essential. allow us to acquire a land map, and whilst in
dungeons, keep an automap of the dungeons. Also a diary to keep our notes
in. When I first purchased U8 CD, and installed the game, I was flipping
through tthe manual and noticed the word diary, and got very excited, until
I found it was another name for "save/load game". Although the longer
descriptions were quite a good idea though.
I trust you'll do a good job with story, but please make it easy to tell the
legends from fact, in U8,m it wasn't easy, maybe the now defunct add on was
going to add some of those things in. But since the game takes place on
Brittania, unless it is far in advance, we should know what's true, and
what's not true.
Keep the U8 camera angle, but either allow us to get a top down view of the
world, or allow us to rotate the camera angle.
PS: one thing I want to add to the avatar actions, is an underwater mode
I can swim underwater as well, for a short time, and could add something new
if we could dive underwater looking for something, maybe the avatar could
make a snorkel, and face mask, and look for something underwater.
Also, non critical quests would be nice. U8 had some but every town in U7
had something going on that wasn't critical, and every time I play through
U&, I discover something new, 4 times I think the count is, and when I go
back, their are some more things I've heard of as well, that goes with U7.5
as well.
That's all I can think of at the moment (I don't ask much do I :)) and I'm
sure someone will write and say the exactg oppoiste to what I've just said,
but just remember I'm right, he's wrong. (just kidding)
Also remember that your target audience is an RPG audience, not super mario
nintendo rubbish.
--
.__________________________________________________________________________.
|Internet: pfle...@scu.edu.au |
| One hour from now WING COMMANDER 3 will be one hour closer to release |
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Mike Weldon
>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>
I think U5 was not only the best Ultima, but one of the best rp/adventure games
ever. I liked the idea that most of the world was out to get me, an atmosphere
reproduced somewhat in U7. I liked having to be careful about saying too much
to the wrong person. I liked worrying if I would find a lynch mob around the
next corner of the next building. It added some tension to the game and made you
feel concerned about your Avatar.
I felt the plot in U8 was a little lacking, however the occasional cinematic
sequence seemed to move the thin plot along. That goes for U7 and U7.5 also.
I'm sure it is more difficult to add these sequences to a non-linear game but
the result will be worth the extra effort.
I liked being able to take on companions in the other games. I think it would
be interesting if the Avatar had some others join him on his quest sometimes,
but not just a couple "pack mules." I would like to be able to carry on
intelligent conversations with my companions. It also seems more realistic
to have characters join the Avatar for only a short time in the quest. Maybe
Soldier Fred needs to find something in Dungeon X and you could join with
him. When he finds whatever he is looking for, he takes off. Then maybe he
could show up later in the quest. Maybe the thing he found in the dungeon
turned him into a big evil guy whose now going on a killing spree and you
have to stop him. These type of things make the populace of the world more
realistic.
I hated the combat system in U7 and U7.5. I hated the combat system in U8 a
little less. U6 had the best even though turn-based combat might seem a little
awkward, it gives the player more control. I agree with what someone else said
about X-Com having the best combat system in a game. What I liked about X-Com
was the amount of destruction a person could cause. I think it would be neat if
you could have some really destructive spells the left craters in the earth
and destroyed buildings and maybe killed a few civilians too.
The magic system in U8 was the best in any game I have ever played and I have
played a lot of them!
The running, jumping, climbing was neat but this might be hard if the Avater has
companions. Maybe you could have a "solo" mode like in U6 where the individual
characters could jump and climb.
It took me several months to finish U6 and I filled up a whole notebook with
notes. U7 took me about 4-5 weeks and I didn't take a single note. U7.5 took
longer but that was only because I kept getting stuck (Ultima games should
never be so linear that a person can get stuck with nothing to do). U8 took
4-5 weeks and that includes the time while I was stuck. This trend indicates
that the focus of the games is shifting from good story to good graphics and
this is not a good thing considering that the older Ultima games had the best
storylines. I loved having to write down what certain people told me. I didn't
have to in U7+ because the games were so linear I could always remember what
the next thing I had to do was.
I would suggest that all of you on the development team go back and play through
U5 and U6 without any help from outside sources. Figure out the solutions to
the different quests (if you don't already know them) and see how enjoyable they
were. One of the most bittersweet moments in the Ultima series is in U6 when you
realize what those map fragments you keep stumbling across are for. It was
frustrating to realize that you had to find a total of eight of them, but it also
meant that you were nowhere near finishing the game, which is always a good thing.
Bottom line: Don't change the U8 graphics system if possible, I loved it. And
give us a game that is fun and challenging and interesting. I like having to
put lots of time into my quest to finish it.
>Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
>Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
>learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
Does this mean that that final scene in U8 in in Britannia? If so, then my
theory was correct. The guardian is always talking about how Britannia is being
destroyed while the Avatar is away. That would be neat to return home to a
post-holocaust Britannia. I always thought that U9 would be on the Guardian's
home world or something.
Mike Weldon
P.S. I'm graduating soon from UC San Diego with a computer engineering degree. I
would like to get a job doing software development. Is there someone at Origin I
could send my resume to?
Ho Kiu Lee
So here's my wish list:
I. Game Interface and Game Play
1. No more arcade actions. Please. This is an RPG game, not an action game. Don't try to blur the lines between different kinds of games. A new idea is nice, but put it into other non-traditional Ultima series, like the 1st person 3D combact system in Ultima Underworld.
2. Bring the keyboard back. Make use of hotkeys. Mice are nice, but they are slow. Typing C is a lot easier than bring up the inv menu and click on the combat mode icon. It's much faster that way too and adds so much to the replay value of the game. I don't know about the others, but I hate to pay some 80 bucks for a game and it only lasts for 1 week or so.
3. Give us back the command window like the one in Ultima IV to VI. Let us know what is happening when the sword hits the monster. How much damage has been inflicted? Just how many hp are left for the monster before it dies? We're given no clues of this in Ultima VII and VIII at all! We just click, click, and click faster.
4. In Ultima VII, all I do in combat is hitting the 'c' key. In Ultima VIII, all I do is clicking. You call this real-time combat? I prefer the combat system in Ultima VI: you have a choice to control your characters or not. A turn-based combat system will be nice. I personally like the combat system in 1st-generation AD&D (like in Champion of Krynn) best.
5. Bring back solo mode. In Ultima VII, I have to talk to all 7 party members, digging deep into the menu with clicking and clicking and clicking (darn, but why can't I just press Y for Yes?) in order to get into solo mode. This is annoying. I remember in Ultima VI, all I have to do is pressing 1.
6. Make the NPC more live-like. Say, when the Avatar wants to do something, Iolo will give a suggestion. Then Durpe will argue with Iolo, and Avatar then turns to Shamino for his advice. If Avatar takes Iolo's suggestion, Durpe will get mad. It comes out that Iolo's suggestion doesn't work and Durpe will laught at him. This is what an interactive game should be, instead of just putting live actors into 256 colors.
7. Make the world BIGGER. And give us the chance to freely wander around. I don't know about you, but for me, the first thing I want to do in an Ultima game is to visit every city and find my old friends. In Serpent Isle and Ultima VIII, I can't do that at all. I want places to go to, NPCs that I can talk to and the like. The world should be big enough for me to get lost (I remember how much time I spent just to find the logger in Yew in Ultima VI.)
8. Sub-quests. Many of them. In some way, I think the idea of virtually unlimited missions in Privateer may get into work. Maybe you can make up some random character that wants people to help them, like finding his husband, rescuing his son and such. These quests should have nothing to do with the main plot, and all it affects is your 'popularity' (See below). This adds so much to the replay value of the game.
9. Aside from those physical stats like Strength, Wisdom and such, the Avatar should also have a 'popularity' stat. The popularity will change whenever the Avatar accomplish a quest, or do something to the neighborhood in Britannia. (Like stealing should lower his popularity, and killing a tiger that constantly theathen the lives of the villagers will increase it.) Popularity should be directly tied to how the NPC reacts and speaks to him. This is discourage people from stealing in the game. Come on! You a
re the Avatar, with all those 8 virtures. You should not steal in the game!
10. Give a stats on the weapon and armor. Just plain saying that plate armor is better than chain armor but is heavier in the manual is not enough. I remember Ultima VI wasn't like this.
11. Make the clothing and weapon change reflect in the Avator's picture. Sure, it kinda works in Serpent Isle and Pagan, but the little moving figure representing the Avator is always like that.
12. Bring back the portrait. I love seeing them and that give me a little idea what kind of person I am talking to.
13. Give the NPC a personality. Some NPC should not give you any information until you threathen him, and some will only give you information when you befriend him. What kind of tone I choose to speak in should matter.
14. Jumping and Climbing are nice, but don't make that arcade action type. Say, in a house the door is stuck, the only way you can get in it is to climb and drop through the hole on the roof of the building. And, make the 'use the sword tho break the door' in Ultima VI back. It's a lot more fun than picking the lock.
15. Please bring back the party. I enjoy having my old friends on my side.
16. Let the Avatar do something evil. Discourage stealing, but give us the option. Let us say something naugthy to Gwenno so that Iolo will get mad, and if the Avatar continues to do so, Iolo will leave the party. If it gets to the point that Iolo really hates the Avatar now, make it that Iolo and Gwenno will hate you so much that they will try to assassin you until they are dead. Now this is interactive.
17. Continue with excellent graphics and sound, but don't sarcifice speed. Ultima IX should still be playable comfortably on a 486. Don't make us upgrade everytime we get a new Ultima!
18. Some NPC should start the dialogue first. Say, when you get to Lord British's dining room, Lord British will say 'Hello Avatar, want to have dinner with me?' And you can say Yes or No. You can choose where you sit beside, and where you are starring at. Normally you should look at LB when he's talking to you, but it should also be possible to have the Avatar looking the pretty maid behind him instead....
19. Give a love theme to the Avatar. And a complete love theme. This has given Wing Commander II a great plot, and it will certainly make Ultima IX a more enjoyable adventure.
20. Make the world real. Inflation and money supply should put into play. Rich people should really be rich, and when you kill them, even their clothes can sell for some 500 gold pieces. This gives players the incentive to do evil things, so that Avatar will be as real-person as you and I are.
II. Game Plot
Here's a sample game plot for Ultima IX that I make up:
So you leave Pagan, and Guardian is waiting for you. You defeat him, at least you think, and you get back to Britannia. There you find the world changes a lot. People are accusing you for things you haven't done. It's not long you discover that there's a fake Avatar now in Britannia -- who looks and speaks exactly like you. This fake one is making everyone in Britannia hate the Avator, and all your former friends: Iolo, Shamino, Durpe... leave you. In an incidence, you rescue a pretty girl (Or a guy if you
are playing as a female avatar) who truly believes you are innocent. She/he is the only one in Britannia who still supports you. So here the quest begins: you should again prove yourself as the Avatar, and discover what's the plot for that fake Avatar, and expose his evil things to the world before it's too late....... Just when you're at it, Lord British disappears, and the false Avatar is nowhere to be found. A new strangely Batlin-smiliar looking guy becomes the new ruler, and you are wanted everywhere
by the new government. Your lover is arrested for some odd reason. Your friends, Durpe and the like, are sent to arrest you. Your tasks are now very difficult:
1. You have to mask yourself or guards everywhere will find you and kill you at sight;
2. Your friends like Durpe will still recognize you, but you do not want to kill them in combat (unless you are doing an 'evil' Avatar) and have to flee everytime you see them until you can convince them into the party;
3. You have to rescue your lover;
4. You have to show you are the true Avatar by showing your eight virtures (something like Ultima IV);
5. You have to rescue Lord British (like Ultima V);
6. You have to befriend the villagers that hate you, city by city (something like Ultima VI, but in that case it's the gargoyles.);
7. You have to find out the reason for all those fake Avatar and such;
8. You finally have to defeat the Guardan once and for all (who's behind all these, as you can guess.)
Just my two cents.
Hermann Lee
UBC Computer Science 3rd year.
Jeffrey John Naumowitz
I've read lots of suggestions and I figure I'll add my own.
1. New little innoventions which add to the fun and surprise of the game
(ie: lighthouses, talking horses, farms where u can steal food,
cool stuff to find in dungeons that u don't need to
solve the game)
2. I liked the u4 music. It was constant, but changed. It was
actual music, not just noise (like the u8-type music)
3. I really liked the idea of one or more avatars, why aren't there
more, anyway? Maybe a guild of avatars.
4. Iolo, Dupre, Shamino.
5. How bout people not joining u until u are strong enough (I liked
this about u4)
6. Use the keyboard (4 speech too)
7. cool u5-like decisions (who 2 turn in to the bad guys, etc)
8. a love life would be cool
9. as would some references 2 earth (another earthling perhaps)
10. how bout lots of "evil" earthlings which the avatar will have
2 keep out by cutting off his link 2 earth- either making
him stay or return forver.
11. Keep the system requirements realistic (I have 486/66 4 megs ram)
I think this should be sufficient. Speech pack is cool, but
include it in the game (I can't believe many people buy it
seperately)
Just a few thoughts. U guys do a great job. Keep it up.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to u by the Funk. My not be reproduced without the express
written consent of Funk or anyone with the first name of Zarley.
Have a nice day. Go Devils!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
JANG HIN LANG
>Now, it will be a revolution if you can give us ability to program
>party members action. Something like:
>
> Iolo:
> INIT no_init_spell = TRUE
>
> IF HP_critical critical /\ HAS_Heal_Potion Iolo THEN
> DO WITH PRIORITY 5 Use_Heal_Potion Iolo friend ;
>
> IF round < 1 /\ no_init_spell /\
> DO WITH PRIORITY 1
> BEGIN
> spell := pick {Prayer, Invisibility, Strengh} ;
> Cast Iolo Iolo spell ;
> no_init_spell := FALSE ;
> END ;
[article clipped here]
The above technique of sequential branching to build a strategy for
real-time combat may not be appropriate; it would not allow
for Iolo to "learn from past mistakes". Instead of the player
offering a static list of options for Iolo to choose from, organising
strategy options in the following manner might be more appropriate.
success[+]
/
/
| cast spell [23]
/ | use melee weapon [31]
/ \
/ \
failure[-] flee[61]
enemy | attack[7] /
range < 10m | heal[11] /
[3] check health
/ \ / \
/ \ / \
/ \ | self [37:7] ---| remain[67]
/ | other [41:11] ---|
/
/
/
Iolo success [+]
\ /
\ /
\ | cast spell [43]
\ / | use missile weapon [51]
\ / \
\ / \
\ failure[-] flee[71]
\ /
enemy | attack[13] /
range > 10m | heal[17] check health
[5] \ / \
\ / \
\ | self [53:53] ---| remain[73]
| other [57:57] ---|
This binary tree structure of strategy options provides a much faster
searching scheme than a linear sequence of options. A linear representation
requires you to explicitly indicate virtually *every* possible outcome for
a particular situation -- not difficult, but rather time consuming. A binary
tree representation, however, allows rapid searches, compares and even
additions of new strategy options. Operations on a binary tree often
require a simple "yes-or-no" comparison and you are able to exclude a
large portion of possibilities.
Consider the advantages of the above scheme by the following example:
---
Suppose Iolo spots a troll 15m away, attacks with a spell but it
has *no* affect for some reason. By following the path that led to
this conclusion we add the option numbers (OP) along the way to
calculate the strategy combination value (SC). We also note the parity
for success or failure. From this we get 61 (5+13+43) with a single
negative parity. Notice how the OP for one of the flee options is also 61.
Iolo now has the option of retreating available to him. We can stall Iolo's
attempt to flee by setting some condition that states that a single negative
parity result is no reason to run away. If this is the case, Iolo can now
choose *any* strategy -- even a retreat! He could advance, prepare a First
Circle spell and attack (SC = 33) or even step back a few metres to a safe
distance and heal himself with a potion before entering hand-to-hand combat
(SC = 75). An already injured Iolo will more likely choose a strategy
with a high SC.
*Note that the OP values are prime numbers and are arranged in a specific
order. This numbering scheme prevents unlikely "counter-strategies"
to arise.
Now let us suppose that Iolo advances forward to within 5m of the enemy.
He already knows that a strategy combination (SC) that totaled 61 had no
effect so it would be unlikely that he will try again. Iolo, instead,
decides to unsheath his sword and attack. Luckily, the blade strikes
the creature and inflicts a grevious wound. Iolo's current SC value
for his decision is now 51 (3+7+31) with a single positive parity. Iolo
now has a choice of *two* options, continue with his sword attack
(because of the single positive parity) or withdraw and opt for his
crossbow since the missile attack option (OP) from beyond 10m is also
assigned a value of 51. :-)
Iolo notices that the troll is now running towards Shamino. Iolo then
decides to fire at the creature with a magic crossbow bolt. Although
the bolt struck the creature, the attack did little to deter the troll
from attacking his trusted ally. Iolo is now aware that any SC value
of 69 (5+13+51) with a single negative parity has little chance for
success. Realising that giving up after one try is the trademark of
wimps ... Iolo decides to remain in battle because the average of the
"remain" options [(67+73) / 2] is greater than Iolo's current SC of 69. :-)
Iolo will seriously reconsider the situation if he tries many times
with his missile attack with no affect (this can be represented with
many negative parity results and the fact that the "flee average" of 66
is less than Iolo's current SC of 69).
In the third round of battle, Iolo notices that Shamino is lying
on the ground clutching at his side in obvious pain. Suddenly
Iolo himself is set upon once again by the hungry troll. Iolo must now decide
if he should help his fallen comrade or defend himself! Because the
troll is just within arm's reach of Iolo and Shamino, the SC value for
helping the injured fellow is 55 (3+11+41) while the OP value for attacking
is either 23 or 31. Being a true friend, Iolo decides to forego his attack
and assist his long-time friend (since a SC of 55 is greater than the average
attack OP value for an enemy within 10m). Now you are wondering, won't
this make Iolo *and* Shamino vulnerable to the troll attack? This is true,
but notice the number after the colon. This number is used to determine the
"risk" of the action.
A second strategy combination (SC2) has a value of only 25 (3+11+11).
SC2 is now less than the average attack OP value of 27 [(23+31) / 2].
This result will deter Iolo's initial choice using a healing potion on
Shamino. Instead, Iolo will assist Shamino by *defending* his friend in
combat (remember the troll is now close enough to strike at both of them).
If however, the troll was more than 10m away (a much safer distance), Iolo
will certainly cast a spell or use a potion to heal Shamino since SC2 will
be 79 (5+17+57), a much larger value than the average attack OP value of 47
[(43+51) / 2].
----
Modifiers to the OP numbers can be attributed to the current health
of the character. A critically wounded Iolo, for example, may have an
initial OP of more that 65. As such, Iolo is more likely to flee from a
creature that is very close to him; whereas he may decide to fire a
crossbow bolt at the creature more than 30m away before reassessing his
situation. He may even decide to heal himself!
This development of strategies is not only logical but also very easy
to program and maintain.
.Hin.
Xylothan
=======
What should U9 include (cont): (imho)
35. More follow-ups to past Ultima events...
Hmmmm... I really wonder what is going to happen to Pagan now
that I ruin that world and my virtues to leave. I also wonder what that
scrool on Lord British's body ("The baby scroll")
36. Another plea on graphics...
*PLEASE* add these lines to Ultima 9 (trust me! :) !!
asm {
mov ax,0x4f02
mov bx,0x101
int 0x10
cmp ah,0
je NOERROR
jmp ERROR
}
It isn't that hard to make something look better! WC3 is pushing
our systems... Please don't leave Ultima in the cold by not making it
as advanced (but don't advance it to live actors..) :)
Everyone if you agree that Origin should make Ultima 9 use adavanced
graphics like WC3 is (ie SVGA 640x480 256color), Please tell Brian!
=======
What NOT to include (cont): (imho)
8. Near-sighted Avatar
Ahem... I don't care. Get him glasses or contacts or something!
I hate my Avatar if he's blind as a bat!!
9. Avatar with an Inner-Ear problem.
If my Avatar falls down 75% of the time after I get hit... it
doesn't make me happy. If get me more frustrated that you could belive.
The Avatar is a powerful hero... not some clutz that can't keep his balance!
10. Distance affecting factors...
Sure I can't open the door from 10 feet away.. I know that, the
Avatar knows that, You know that. BUT I *KNOW* I *COULD* walk over to
the door/chair/whatever, but doing it continualy gets really tidious!
Just my $69.99 (or whatever the retail price of U9 will be)
(I can't belive I spent MORE time writing ANOTHER follow-up..)
--
"In another world, in a time to come" ... maybe Ultima will return;
and since Origin is listening, you bet it will!! Thanks Brian Martin!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Elad Alon
First of all, the parts with the jumping from rock to rock and instantly dying
if you miss DEFINITELY need to go. That was THE most annoying part of U8.
As for combat, I think that, as suggested before, you should have a choice
between turn-based and real time. If you go with the real time, you should be
able to move without having to sheath your sword, run over to the spot, draw
your sword again, and then finally be able to attack. Also, in U8, fighting
more than one opponent was next to impossible. I'm not sure how you could
solve that, but something needs to be done.
Inventory needs to be improved from U8. It was next to impossible to pull
anything out in time to use it combat, specifically against the Ghosts (in
U8), who while you were trying to pull out you're little icon thingy for the
spell were pounding you to death.
I might be going against public opinion when I say this, but I think it would
be REALLY cool if there was some sort of a MAJOR plot twist right in the
beginning. Like, for instance, the Avatar fought and killed the Guardian, but
now, he's been corupted and took his place. You have to play someone else
totally new and try to defeat the Avatar. Just my humble opinion.
Thanks for listening!
allen
so i won't bother repeating it.)
well, mr. martin, it certainly appears that you've created a large thread
here <grin>. seriously, though, i'd like to add my appreciation for your
post. it's good to know that you guys are listening.
i'd add more niceties, but i have a sneaking suspicion that this is going to
be a long message anyway.
mentioned many times:
i think just about everyone has agreed with moving back away from making u9
more arcade-like (especially the jump-from-stone-to-stone parts), and it sounds
like you guys have pretty much decided as much yourself. i'd say, however,
that as long as your game engine allows it, you could probably include some
of the better action parts in there. but only for variety.
i don't think i've seen anyone go against a reagents bag. for that matter,
i'd probably add in a gold/jewels pouch and a special place for just about
anything that you'd want to put in that would be treated similarly. i ended
up either having separate bags for everything (which all looked the same in
my backpack), or had to remember to give all the gold to dupre, etc. more
often, really, i'd end up having to move all the stuff around to find what
i was looking for.
hurm. it seemed to me that i'd noticed a few other things that were mentioned
often and few disagreed with, but i don't remember them. maybe some kind
soul out there will look through and group the consensus suggestions.
my votes:
combat:
ok. i'm also a wargamer, and so i like my combat to be strategic/tactical
and, therefore, turn-based. it's slow, sure, but it makes combat interesting.
in u7 i let the computer control everything in combat, since it seemed that i
couldn't keep track of everything that was going on. i'd end up swinging at
air, or looking at a corpse when i meant to attack something else.
if you decide to keep a real-time system... first of all, fix the friendly
fire problem. in 7 and 7.5, area-effect weapons (and spells) were only
useful when the avatar was alone. this really hurt the magic/fantasy parts
of ultima combat--more often than not, you can take a single creature out
just as easily with a sword as with a spell. the nice thing about magic is
that you can use it against multiple targets. (ok, there are also charm,
summoning, and defensive spells. don't know why it is that i didn't use
those all that often in the third trilogy. too much trouble getting my
spellbook out, i guess.)
i kind of like having stats for weapons and armor. having them hidden in
random books is fine. i also like my characters to have various skills, not
just strength, int and dex. (my favorite combat system in an rpg was wizard's
crown's.) on the other hand... even though i like detailed combat, i don't
think i'd suggest it for ultima. as long as the system is kind of interesting
i think it would be ok. fascingating fights are not the reason that the ultima
series has always been my most loved computer games.
characters:
ah, here we go. the people. the thing that makes ultima so unique among
games.
don't know how many suggestions i can make here, though, really. certainly
there should be more characters than i've seen so far in u8. i don't mind
having people who don't impart any vital information, just are there to be
fun, or add color, or whatever. in fact, i'd say i like it a lot. i can't
say that i know the perfect ratio, or number of inhabitants, or anything like
that. i just know that i haven't yet thought to myself 'gee, it seems like
i've run into too many people in this game.'
bring back the portraits. implement them as you wish, but i _miss_ them.
interface... i liked being able to type my questions, even if they were only
one word long. it gave much more a feel of interaction than clicking with
a mouse. also, it made it so you'd actually have to take notes and remember
whom to ask about what. i've gotten lazy about writing things down now,
since the next time i talk to an important person there would be a new
option up there. so all i had to do was choose it, and read the response,
and then, usually, i'd remember then being told to ask the person about that.
also, there were many points (especially in serpent isle) when it would be
mentioned that 'bob knows a lot about ancient books', but when you talked to
bob, either the option would never come up, or it would come up only after
some other flag had been set. _very_ annoying. if bob really doesn't know
about ancient books, i'd rather know right away that he doesn't, instead of
wondering why i hadn't tripped the flag.
on the other hand, i have to admit that i kind of like being able to choose
sentences and/or phrases instead of single words. it gives more realism to
the conversation. in fact, i think it probably balances out the 'feel' of
typing queries. still, unless you can figure out some other way to ask
about things without putting the option up there on the screen, and
specifically without having to trip a flag, i'd have to vote for keyboard
entry. (someone else also mentioned being able to ask questions out of
the blue,i think using the blackthorn/shadowlords example from u5. i'll
second that, too.)
having people respond to outside events would be nice too. i think the 'no
man is an island' idea has been mentioned many times. it always does seem
kind of strange to have catastrophic events and social upheavals going around,
and yet half of the townspeople don't seem to notice. seems to me that there
was some good stuff done with that in serpent isle, though many times in
that case there were so many dead that it didn't register as much. so i guess
i should say that this should be used a bit more, instead of saying that it
wasn't there before. (i suppose there would have to be some flag-tripping
here, after i was just complaining about it. this is different, though. it's
ok to have someone's responses change after they have learned something, or
something has happened--it's just bad when you can't find out what they
already know because of the interface.)
plot:
ok, first of all, the only specific i'd say on this is that i like the idea
of a more fully-developed love interest. there are lots of ways to do this,
though i certainly wouldn't recommend fogetting about the person at the shrine
in cove.
there are several ideas i think would be neat, many mentioned on here, but,
well, i'd really hate to run into too many things in ultima ix and think to
myself, 'oh, yeah, i remember seeing that suggested on news.' i'd love to
think that about features, spells, the interface, the combat system, and
such, but not about plot points or individual characters. it runs the risk
of reducing the surprise and novelty of it all. besides, i think that
the ultima designers have certainly written the most interesting and complex
stories in crpgs, and really don't feel uncomfortable trusting that you will
do it again.
that said, i would like to make a couple of comments. someone earlier said
they'd like to see a more clear-cut good vs. evil theme. i disagree--i think
one of the neat things about the later ultimas has been how they handle
tough moral questions. the various villians are a good example, with
blackthorn, the gargoyles, and the fellowship (many of them) turning out to
be more misguided then actually evil, and certainly possessing enough
character to be understood. (on the other hand, it's good to have some
actual villians around--i think i'd vomit if i found out that the guardian
was conquoring various dimensions because he was abused as a child.) i also
like the idea that sometimes, being a virtuous person means wandering a bit
away from the straight and narrow. not that the virtues should be abandoned
or anything--i'd see it more as a conflict of virtues, like in the character
generation at the beginning of the second trilogy, rather than implying that
you can throw the virtues out the window if following them seems impractical
at the time.
(i'll also mention that i love the way the way that other complex issues,
such as the racial tensions between the gargoyles and humans, are addressed.
the revisionist history in u7 was wonderful. and it's been done without
getting preachy or pc! no real suggestion here, just a comment.)
other:
i personally love how the early ultimas still have such as effect on what's
happening now. the shards coming from mondain's gem, the gargoyle's problems
stemming from the codex being recovered from the abyss, serpent isle's
connection with u1 and u3 (it was great having the earth serpent return)...
these things add to the depth of the world almost as much as the people.
i'm sure the team will be able to handle it as well as before, without
letting it become too predictable.
new and interesting weapons and magic items are always fun. u7, si, and u8
have been pretty good in that area. it's good to have your basic magic
weapons and armor, but there's something special about finding a magebane,
black sword, or...i haven't really played u8 enough to remember the names
of the things in there, but they look promising.
magic... i think the basic systems have been pretty good so far. i'm not
so sure about the separation of what the player has to do and what the
character has to do, though. i mean, it's probably good to have to mix up
the spells beforehand, but i don't want to place the reagents into the bag
myself. in the same way, i don't want to have to flip through my spellbook
in the heat of combat any more than i want to tie up my avatar's bootlaces
in the morning. for certain special spells and rituals, yes, it's good to
have to go through each step. but for normal, everyday spellcasting (quite
a concept, no?), well, leave the little details for the avatar to take care
of.
ok, and i have to put a vote in as being pro-keyboard. yes, there are things
that are easier to do with the mouse, and those things should be done with
the mouse. but as many things that can have hot keys, should. taking the
above example, i am 100% in favor of having the option to cast spells by
hitting (c)ast (v)as (c)orp [return], for example. _so_ much faster.
music and sound: i trust you. keep up the good work.
and finally:
i know this probably doesn't need to be said, but i figure i will anyway:
remember that you guys are the ones writing the game. it's great that you're
asking our opinions here, and i hope that we make some good suggestions and
that you implement them (at least the commonly agreed ones--if iolo still
shoots the party members all the time with that triple crossbow, i think
we'll have a right to be unhappy). but just because a majority of people
on here might say that we like turn-based combat doesn't mean that you have
to change everything. ultima by committee is the last thing we need.
ah. it's late. or early, as the case may be. i've spent way too much time
writing this. anyway, thanks again for listening to my opinions. hope the
programming goes well and such. and if you decide that you need more
playtesters or anything like that... (<grin> hey, no harm in dreaming.)
-allen
allen petersen apet...@haverford.edu al...@jelal.resnet.upenn.edu
no interesting .sig, no wife, no mustache
Jimbola
problem with it. It seems that when you are in combat, if you cast a
spell the entire game gets really messed up. You can't see what the
heck is going on in combat anymore. Has anyone else had this sort of
problem? Is there going to be a patch put out somewhere so I can get
this fixed and play my game? Arrrrggg...I'd hate to not be able to play
this correctly now that I've bought it.
--
life is not lost by dying
life is lost minute by minute day by dragging day
in all the small uncaring ways - stephen vincent benet
Nightfox
: I. Interface suggestions
: II. Plot suggestions
:
: I. Interface suggestions
To the U9 developers, print out Daniel Starr's original post, and do that.
It would make a great Ultima. Sure some of the ideas are going to be hard to
implement, and take a lot of thought on how to do some of them, but so what
if it makes a game with few complaints (No matter what you do, not every one
is going to be happy :()
Also have character development that's going to last me then entire game
under normal circumstances. I've played X-com, and should be getting the
game tomorrow, and one thing I loved was seeing my more experianced team
members stats go up up. Nahlakh seems very good in this way. My first play
through of U8, figuring out that first lever puzzle on my way to Mythrans
house virtually maximised my stats with all the ghouls I killed.
Also no wandering monsters, once I've fought the fight, surely I've proven
that I can win, why keep fighting the same monsters. Although I will admit
that they way you guys do the wandering monster bit is at least sensible,
with monsters appearing at certain places. Also what about a random quest
generator, this would add replayability to the game, as well as longevity to
the game. I still play Privateer CD, even though I got through the main
plotline ages ago.
Daniel Starr
However... the new, improved, Ultima 9 suggestion list.
I. Interface suggestions
II. Content suggestions
I. Interface suggestions
1. No arcade sections. No arcade sections. No arcade sections.
3. Lots of hotkeys.
4. Special inventory for "typed" items (esp. reagents).
5. Idiocy-free combat.
6. View rotation.
7. Automapping and/or lots of premade maps.
8. Text optionally visible during speech.
10. SVGA would be nice. Marketing may make it necessary.
11. Keep the U8-style cut scenes.
II. Content suggestions
1. Game flags must make sense. Game flags must make sense.
2. Satisfying resolutions.
3. Evil people should be evil.
4. Evil people should be evil during the game, too.
6. No scavenger hunts.
7. Lots of small figure-it-out-yourself puzzles.
10. Lots of dynamism in the world.
12. Rewards for the clever and alternatives for the rest.
14. Give the player an advising companion to keep him going.
15. Motivation, motivation, motivation.
16. A positive ultimate goal.
17. A hidden ultimate goal.
18. Do trick me. But make it serious and fair.
19. A BIG world.
20. Remake Britannia with magic.
21. Lots of toys.
22. Make quests implicit, not explicit.
23. Make quests meaningful to the player. (Down with Widgets!)
24. Make required quests attractive to the player.
25. Make side quests diverting.
26. Script the enemies' actions, not the player's.
27. No unjustified formulaic quest patterns.
28. End with the player enacting a lingering, meaningful ritual.
I. Interface suggestions
1. No arcade sections. No arcade sections. No arcade sections.
"Arcade section" = any obstacle that a typical player has to
try more than three times to get past. Maybe even two times.
2. Pathfinding function (as in U7) is a must.
The second most annoying part of U8 was trying to find the
one tiny spot on the ledge where the game would let one climb. I
want to be able just to click where I want to be and let the
computer find the appropriate route. (This includes jumping.)
3. Lots of hotkeys.
I want to be able to hit (C) to get a list of spells to Cast
and (R) to Rest and so on. I do not like mouse-only interfaces.
And I'm tired of mucking about through my inventory all the time.
4. Special inventory for "typed" items (esp. reagents).
If I pick up yet another piece of sulphurous ash, I want the
game to automatically put it with the rest. In general I want as
much inventory handling automated as possible. Let there be a
"Reagent bag", "Weapons sack", etc.
5. Idiocy-free combat.
I do not ever again want to see my character sheath his
sword in the middle of combat in order to move. If I click on an
enemy, I want to move up to him and swing. If I click on a
location, I want to dash over there. I want my relevant objects
and a list of spells available by hotkeys, no inventory-mucking
required. If it makes the player look stupid or feel clumsy, get
effect and missile weapons!
6. View rotation.
I'm tired of not being able to see what's going on. And
it's very aggravating to knock a chest where you can't see it.
Alternatively a hotkey to turn all walls to transparent glass
would work quite well.
Do you have any idea how big those isometric places feel? I
want a nice 2D automap, or else a regular supply of 2D map
vendors and dead bodies with maps on them. Or both.
8. Text optionally visible during speech.
9. Full speech is NOT necessary.
Not if the storage required gets in the way of a rich,
multiple-paths, highly dynamic world.
10. SVGA would be nice. Marketing may make it necessary.
The figures would be a lot sharper in SVGA -- I second the
example of December's PC Gamer CD-ROM "Relentless" demo. Ask
marketing how many games will have SVGA by Christmas '95.
11. Keep the U8-style cut scenes.
As another pointed out, those were well done and a lot of
fun. Probably the best technical U8 feature after the basic
graphics, physics and sound engines.
II. Content suggestions
1. Game flags must make sense. Game flags must make sense.
Whenever the game won't let one do X until one has done Y a
reason must be explicitly given. Nothing does more to destroy
the suspension of disbelief than a senseless requirement. "What,
if the dog sniffs the medallion the barrier around the castle
disappears? What the heck?" [In U8: Why wouldn't Hydros speak
to me until after I completed the Shrine of the Ancient Ones?
Why did I have to free Pyros before I could get the Ethereal
Travel spell? Stupid, stupid, stupid.]
If I kill a local dragon I want every single villager to
thank me for it when they see me and most of them to have changed
habits as a result. If I save the world I want a big, flashing
YOU HAVE SAVED THE WORLD sign and I want every single citizen to
come up and shake my hand and tell me a personal anecdote about
how I have made their lives better. The closing animation should
be blindingly explicit and triumphant, and resolutions during the
game should be similarly direct. Don't assume I know I've done a
good deed, don't just tell me "You have done a good deed", SHOW
ME. There should be no doubt about the consequences of my
actions.
I want motivation. I want dead bodies and crying widows
strewn in the wake of my enemy. I want lots of HATE and MISERY
and ANGUISH to lay at the feet of my enemy.
4. Evil people should be evil during the game, too.
I want to make good friends and useful allies only to have
them kidnapped with taunting notes left behind. I want to see
innocents taken away screaming. I want Blackthorn and the
Shadowlords (U5) -- enemies who make my quest difficult on a
personal, direct and regular basis. I want personal reasons to
be upset with the enemy.
No "tomb of Moriens" nonsense, please. If there are going
to be red herrings, put them in a situation where it's clear
there are false as well as true leads. If characters are going
to lie, their motivations should be made clear later on. Never,
ever assume the player will figure out why so-and-so did X. Make
it explicit.
6. No scavenger hunts.
The Avatar is a hero, not a catspaw. Don't give me lots of
directions -- give me clues I put together myself. Avoid: "You
got the blackrock? Good. Now go to the Wisps with this book..."
7. Lots of small figure-it-out-yourself puzzles.
Using brain = fun. Give me lots of opportunities to piece
information together. I'm investigating the Widgets, say: an
apprentice says the Mage of Veils was interested in Widgets but
has now "vanished, I know not where"; but the innkeeper says that
a bard told him there was a carnival with caged Widgets in North
Vespers.... so where might the Mage of Veils be, hmm?
Everyone in town should be able to give me directions to
buildings in town; and if there's a plague, everyone should have
9. Lots of [well-justified] surprises and mysteries.
If I want "Kill Foozle" I'll go play an SSI game :) There
should be multiple twists and turns -- as long as they are
properly explained afterwards. And make sure the player doesn't
have an opportunity to kill anyone ahead of schedule...
10. Lots of dynamism in the world.
Gypsies and bards who move from town to town. Roving
brigands. Armies on the march. Lots of things to keep the
Avatar on his toes. Just don't make any obvious links to
unrelated game events -- if the army marches into York right
after I free the Princess, every single time, it looks stupid.
Instead, try "The army will march into York as soon as the player
has completed one of plot objectives A, B, and C and has visited
1-6 (random) more cities." (Time-based flags don't work too well
if the player works quickly. Instead, increment the counter each
time the player goes into a city different from the last city
visited. Or count the number of conversations. Or both.)
11. Genuine time pressure.
Repeatedly emphasize the urgency of the situation - "The
BigNastyFolks take more of us away each day." Count the number
of visits I've made to cities so far. Trigger something
upsetting every N+(1-4) visits. An army blockade? A fire? Lots
of ways to make players' lives unpleasant without making the game
unwinnable. Just make sure we know the time pressure exists.
Let there be a wandering Oracle who requires onerous tasks
in return for hints. If you can't figure out where the Mage of
Veils is, you go hunt down the Oracle. This lets there be
serious brain-working puzzles without making the game impossible.
Just heavily advertise the Oracle, and make the tasks harder each
time. "Back again so soon? Good -- I need the skulls of three
dragons from the northern mountains..."
Lever puzzles and logic puzzles and word puzzles look and
feel contrived and have no role-playing in them at all. BORING.
Give me puzzles in the form of problems natural to the world --
"How can I find where the Mage of Veils has gone?" "Who killed
the smith? Why?" "What will persuade the Baron that I'm on his
side?" Puzzles should center around people, not things. Puzzles
should be solved by talking to and investigating people and
making deductions based on the results.
14. Give the player an advising companion to keep him going.
Let one or more of the NPCs have a ready answer to "what the
heck should I do now?" so that there's never any confusion.
"Well, I think we ought to try and find out where the Mage of
Veils went. Probably we should talk to and investigate the
townsfolk. If we can't figure it out ourselves, we should
probably seek the Oracle." Such an NPC could also serve as a
note-taker.
15. Motivation, motivation, motivation.
Why do I have to do X to win the game? Has this been made
clear to me? Why did Joe do Y? Has this been explained to me?
16. A positive ultimate goal.
The unique charm of U4 and U5 was the goal: not merely to
destroy an enemy but to accomplish something good. U9 should do
the same. Perhaps one seeks to heal a cataclysm-wracked land?
To revitalize the Way of the Avatar? (To do the first, and
discover this requires doing the second?) Of course, the
Guardian et al should stand squarely in the way of this goal...
17. A hidden ultimate goal.
Games that hide my final goal until late are much more
effective than ones that announce "You must kill Foozle the Bad"
during the intro. I'm not talking about "This Widget lets you
win the game" [Serpent Isle, U8], but about a fundamental new
direction -- not to destroy a people but to save it, not to find
a temple but to build it oneself, not to cure a plague but to
lead a migration. U6 and Wasteland come to mind.
18. Do trick me. But make it serious and fair.
Raise your hand if you really thought the Fellowship was
nice in U7.... Surprises like Ultima 6's are great, U9's
technology could make them extremely potent, and guilt is a
terrific motivation. But don't expect me to fall for the
obvious, and don't expect me to feel guilt over something
required to win the game. (U8: "Stellos, if you have a problem
you can take it up with Lord British. They're his game flags,
not mine.") It won't affect me unless I realize I had a way to
find out the truth and avoid it. Don't _force_ me to be a
dupe... just make it very attractive, and the result ghastly. :)
"Lord Draxinusom, here is the last piece of the Portal of
Powerful Popsicles." "My thanks, Avatar. Now..." "Lord
Draxinusom -- your face, it's -- oh my..."
19. A BIG world.
Pagan's most serious content problem was that there wasn't
enough content. U9 should be as big as U5, in both population
and geography.
20. Remake Britannia with magic.
I don't want to see the same old Britannia; I do want to
see some form of Britannia; I don't want to see technology and
the Industrial Revolution. Instead, let the writers come up with
some nifty ideas for a Magical Revolution. Is there a flying
carpet taxi service? Do the rich have roofs that vanish during
sunshine but reappear in the rain? Do debutantes apply
costume-enhancement potions before going to the ball? (Just
don't put in a blatant environmentalist message -- moral
questions should be subtle.)
21. Lots of toys.
One of the best parts of an RPG is playing with an
environment -- that's what distinguishes it from a straight
adventure in the first place. We want flying carpets, floating
glow-bulbs, self-guided butterfly nets, magic tape recorders,
anything and everything. (Just as long as they're cheap to
program.) Cool weapons are especially appreciated. And I second
the posters who wanted to see Smith the talking horse and the
moon-based moongates again. A Wing Commander ship is optional.
22. Make quests implicit, not explicit.
Whenever someone says "Avatar, you must fetch X", I think
"Oh, boy, another hoop to jump through. What fun." Instead, let
me deduce from peoples' conversation and from books that
_someone_ must fetch X, and then decide to do it for myself. If
I don't know what to do next, I can always ask my adviser
companion (see #14) for a nudge.
23. Make quests meaningful to the player. (Down with Widgets!)
Avoid "Fetch the Wondrous Widget of Subplot Solving". The
"Doohickey of Doom" means nothing to me. While problems should
be epic (war, plague, eruptions, demons, curses) they should have
practical ramifications and solutions. E.g., go find a healer /
negotiate peace / delve into the volcano / close the demon-portal
/ appease the witch. These engage my imagination and make the
world more real to me; widgets don't. And if you have to make up
a whole song and dance to explain the seriousness of the
situation, skip it. ("Oh, Avatar, the Bannner of Boondock has
been in our family for centuries and I simply can't run the
ceremony without it and...")
24. Make required quests attractive to the player.
I and everyone else were absolutely eager to destroy the
Shadowlords in Ultima 5, because the Shadowlords were such a pain
to the Avatar. In a long game, just advancing the plot can be a
very unrewarding reward; I'll enjoy each subplot much more if I
can expect a practical result to show for it. (E.g.: the dragon
no longer swoops down to torch me every 3-6 cities. The Sword of
Seven Seals is a great weapon. The smiths of Moria, with their
mithril weapons, are now reopened for business. The Sodenburg
militia can now join the war effort, pushing the enemy back and
making the Silver Tower accessible to me.)
25. Make side quests diverting.
Make sure the script is sufficient to make the player want
to take time out to do the side quest. Beware of quests that are
pathetic in context: "Oh, Avatar, I know the world will end in
three days, but could you please rescue my baby in the far-off
Dungeon of Doom?" Really, non-dramatic side quests are best --
romance, comedy, or a nifty treasure. There's already plenty of
drama on the Avatar's plate.
26. Script the enemies' actions, not the player's.
Exploration is half the fun of an RPG, and the sequence of
the player's quests should be the player's decision. At all
costs avoid Serpent Isle's convenient shipwrecks, kangaroo courts
of unresistable mages, and blatant travel restrictions. Let me
do the subplots in any order I want -- do you really, really need
to force a particular order? Why? Let independent enemy actions
raise tension (see "Genuine time pressure", #11). Make the
obstacles to "improper" success practical instead of arbitrary.
In Ultima 5, descending into Doom without the Crown or Scepter
would get you fried by fireballs and forcefields long before you
got to Lord British. This is good: I am the hero, I get to make
the decisions, stupid or not!
27. No unjustified formulaic quest patterns.
No nine map pieces. No "each town has its own unique,
self-contained problem to solve". No prescripted wild goose
chases. These reek of artificiality. In real life problems
sometimes come two to a city or zero to a city and more often
than not involve more than one city. If the player has enough
work to do and if every place affects the main plot somehow,
that's sufficient. (The exception is where the division is
natural -- a quest assigned by each of eight shrines, say.)
28. End with the player enacting a lingering, meaningful ritual.
This is Ultima! This is the last great adventure of the
Avatar! We don't need a final battle. We need a closing of the
circle with U4; let the player enact a ritual of significant
length, with meaning for the series as well as U9. Perhaps with
a final scene in a dark, abandoned temple... where a hollow voice
utters, "Wilt thou lie?" "Nay." "Wherefore?" "Honesty." "Wilt
thou give aid?" "Aye." "Wherefore?" "Compassion." ... and as
he spoke the runes on the seal of the temple floor began to glow,
one by one... ...and... [roll triumphant endgame animation]
[roll credits]
--
Daniel Starr | Graphics CPU demand will peak in 1995;
starr-...@yale.edu | AI is the processor hog of the future.
| --------------------------------------------------
"Scuppers. Hosepipe." | PC with 10^10 neurons: 40-80 years. (Moore's law)
Xylothan
: In article <Cz3u...@cs.ruu.nl>, Wishnu Prasetya <wis...@cs.ruu.nl> wrote:
: > [linear Iolo code]
: [article clipped here]
: ['learning' Iolo binaray tree]
Good Lord! With this much from you guys on AI and programming, we
could practicly get U9 programed for Origin! Oh... and instead of a
biniary tree, a 2-3Btree might work better, as it would give more initial
options that just 'attack/flee'. ie..
Attack Move Flee
/ | \
(attack | \
types) (Move (Run away)
into better
postition --
like hide in a bush)
-- Jason
(are you getting all this Brian?? :)
Daniel Starr
SUGGESTIONS...
(I incidentally disagree with Allen Petersen (I think) about Origin
adopting suggestions here. Ultima 9 will be out over a year from
now even if the schedule holds; some of the ideas here are
obvious anyway; and none would foreshadow future events even if
you noticed. I'll buy a drink for anyone who really and truly
while playing U9 thinks "Hey, I know what's coming, I read this
last year on c.s.i.p.rpg!")
For readability fans or latecomers, the updated whole list
follows in the next post. (Brian, are you sorry you asked yet?)
Inspired by posts since my earlier one (note 16,17,19 are due to
others), here are
More Plot Suggestions
Xylothan
: [many points I agree with]
: writing this. anyway, thanks again for listening to my opinions. hope the
: programming goes well and such. and if you decide that you need more
: playtesters or anything like that... (<grin> hey, no harm in dreaming.)
That would be nice... (yes dreaming is fun). But it has happened
before... with OS/2 Galactic Civilizations.. and that game turn out to
be VERY good (it is in the TOP 30 on Jojo's list (I think)...)
BTW... anyone seen the host list of Origin? Looks like they have an
Onxy and several Indys! Alas... all of them are not routable. :(
-- Jason
Ove Kalkan
1) When I'm in a dungeon why can I see sections that are totally unaccessable
from my current position? Allthough in a few situations this is very helpfull to
see which enemy comes next it's a bit unrealistic and a step back in opposit to
U5.
2) Why not letting the avatar break wooden doors if he wants? If the door is
special it could be metal improved.
3) A special container for keys and perhaps a possibility to label them because if
you have 4 golden keys which look all the same it gets very bordom to try them
every time you want to open a door.
4) Esspecially containers of U7 are very often unorganized as hell.
5) A real parser for communications (Perhaps a cheat like in U6 :-) with Iolo)
6) Well in U7.5 I have the feeling that the avatar is a little bit sleepy in combat
while all other characters work like real experts in a turbo mode :-).
7) I'd like to have a bigger country. The current landscape is to small in my
opinion to put that much cities upon. Anyway more landscape would mean
more place for dungeon entries.
8) What about a dungeon editor for additional selfmade adventures if the main
task is solved? This means a real adventuring system and not a single adventure.
9) Next time I don't want to save Britannia again. What about different tasks like
rescuing a princess, supporting LB in a war (with spies, castles and large
armies), discovering ancient cities with great treasure and a lot of secrets.
Perhaps it would be possible to place several smaller games in the
adventurers paradise (-> 8) and not to have only one subject that starts and
ends the game when solved.
Perhaps a more detailed experience system will be nessecary for this type of
game while character not only gain experience but learn to use a special thing
or forget about it's usage. This would prevent from getting a party of unbeatable
superheros to be thrown in the next adventure.
Just a few thoughts.
Bye Ove.
--
Ove Kalkan - Ich denke, das ich bin, also bin ich.
Rechenanlage des Mechanikzentrums der Technischen Universitaet Braunschweig
Tel: (0531) 391 7074
Email: kal...@ramz.ing.tu-bs.de
John Sabean
Whoa! Talk about a every-little-thing-you-ever-wanted-to-see-in-an-ultima-right-
down-to-the-keystrokes-you-need-to-press-and-the-assembly-code-that-should-be-used
thread! Talk about micromanaging! :)
Anyways, it seems there is a big consensus that Ultima V probably had the
best story of all of the Ultimas. A friend of mine and I talked for about
a couple hours on why we both became so addicted to this game.
We had both played Ultima IV and loved it. It was a unique game with a
unique idea. No big bad monster to kill at the end of the game. No treasure
to win. No prize to fight for. The whole idea was to make your character
a better person. Plain and simple. To do this, it was essential to learn
everything you could about the world you lived it. Its people, its philosphies.
It was a world you knew next to nothing about, it was completely new.
You start off in Ultima V in this world as the exact same person you were
when you left. You knew of the history of this world. Just enough history
to be placed in the middle of it. The world which you grew to love in Ultima IV
is turned upside down. Lord British is gone. The virtues which you learned
so much about in Ultima IV were being twisted around by the new ruler and
the Shadowlords. The fact that the shadowlords were spawned from the
shards of the gem of Mondain, the idea of an ancient evil reborn in a
more modern light. The plot was not only an interesting one, but it
completely wrapped around you. It was personal. This is what role playing
is about. Its not about watching a little dude on the screen run around
and jump over rocks, or bake bread, or whatever.
You guys have such an opportunity to do this again. If that last scene in
Ultima 8 was Britannia, you are well on your way, don't screw it up. If the
plot is "The Guardian has taken over Britainia and you have to stop him",
and thats it, you'll fail.
If Britainia is completely destroyed and you walk through the ruins, this game
can be made personal. What happens when you go to Cove and find out something
horrible happened to that person that fell in love with you (remember that
person that took care of the shrine of compassion?). Better yet, what if you
travel to LB's castle, to talk to him and see him take his final breath?
If you want to make this game to appeal to fans of the Ultima series, then
you have a big opportunity to shock them. There are all sorts of ideas that
could be used. What if it was the Guardian who originally consorted with Mondain
to help him create his gem and take over Britania, but its only now that the
Avatar has proved himself such a threat that the Guardian has decided to take
matters into his own hands (such as at the end of U7.5... sorry, the pun was
just too obvious....)
Use the rich history of this world you have created. Don't be so concerned with
newer, bigger, and better. Of course originality is necessary, but as you
showed in Ultima V, this can be achieved by simply building on what you
already have.
So, interface, animation, graphics, combat, etc... aside, this is what
I thought made the Ultima series so great. It was something that was lost
around Ultima 7.5 and completely lost in Ultima 8.
Allen Kim
>7) Above all, I don't want to see anything but the classic orthodox
> struggle between good and evil. One of the reasons why playing
> Serpent Isle made me feel so uncomfortable was that I felt like I
> was part of the end of Britannia. After all, when the Banes were
> released by Batlin, only a handful of Britannians survived, right?
> Also, that pentagram in Ultima VIII sure didn't make me feel any
> better. Please leave all that new age stuff out of the storyline,
> and stick to the system of the eight virtues standing up against
> the Guardian and his evil.
I guess I should have kicked myself for writing this suggestion of mine,
reading people react to it, and telling myself, "That is not what I meant;
that is not what I meant at all."
Here's my explaination - when I said, "the classic orthodox struggle between
good and evil," I didn't mean King's Quest. ;) I was pretty disturbed in
Serpent Isle when the Banes were released, since I felt like I was wandering
around in a ghost town after that. I also can't help feeling that I was
partly responsible for the devastation of Serpent Isle by the Banes.
But I DO like the moral twists in plot, like Blackthorn's tyranny turning out
to be involuntary, and Mondain, Minax, and Exodus not being really evil for
evil's sake, but rather too diligent, passionate, or control-happy for their
own good. I also loved the idea that the Gargoyles turned out not to be evil,
but to be a race that was a victim of circumstances.
However, in Serpent Isle, I've seen quite a few instances where the Avatar
tosses virtue out the window. After all, didn't his "fling" with Frigidazzi
violate Honesty and maybe Spirituality; after all, she was another mage's
girlfriend? Also, there was another part where the Avatar had no choice but
to release the daemon trapped in the Black Sword in order to defeat an all-
powerful mage. If I had it my way, I would have Valiantly fought the mage
myself without having to release the evil daemon. But there was only one
choice: to release the daemon, and after I did, I was congratulated by a very
scary daemon's face laughing at me. (It was around 3:00 in the morning, and I
was all alone in my room when I saw this. I decided to cut down on the caff-
eine during these late-night gaming sessions from then on.)
My point? Please keep the twists in plot, since I agree with everyone else
that they make the storyline great. But don't force the Avatar to go against
Virtue, or at least create some dire consequences should the Avatar ever
choose to stray from the path. Or you could create a situation where the
Avatar may have to give up some of the Virtues to accomplish something, like
saving his friends, and then have the Avatar really work to gain those Virtues
back.
I am really looking forward to the "return to the virtues" that Richard
promised. If Ultima IX turns out to be just as good as IV, V, and VI, I'll
be the first in line to pay the MSRP for the game.
- Allen "Ninja" Kim
(known as Arathorn in Britannia)
James J. Herlburt
In addition to all the good things that I've read about that should
be included in Ultima 9 the one thing I think should be included concerns
the plot.
In Ultima 8 the Avatar trashed his virtues. It's happened. None of
us enjoyed that but it's part of the story now. The Guardian set out
what he planned to do. To make the Avatar the "pitiful hero of a fallen
ideal." (insert horrible laugh). In the course of the story now only
did the character have to steal and murder to advance through the game -
(Thou has lost an eighth......) but by the end he leaves Pagan in even
worse shape then he found it. The ends should not justify the means.
At least not the a person who claims to be an Avatar.
Therefore in Ultima 9 some of the character devolpment should deal
with the Avatar trying to regain the virtues he lost and becoming the
Avatar again and not in just in name only. Origin could have some
wicked fun in this. We could find out that all the actions taken on
Pagan had a equal impact on Brittianna and it's the Avatar and not the
Guardian who in fact destroys Lord British's relm. Or LB, seeing the
depths to which the Avatar has fallen, could summon a new warrior to
take the quest of the Avatar and part of the game would be spent in
competion with this computer character.
Of course my personal favorite is having a reformed Blackthorn,
maybe on the road to Avatarism himself, come in at the last min.
to save the day. He....He...He....
Jim
Adam Wiggins
>other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
>want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
>include than you?
I'd like to see a combat system similar to Ultima 6. Bring back
character portraits. Don't make so many NPCs with useless info or
that repeat what the other townspeople say, as in Ultima 7.
...Boone
Aubrey Chen
>First of all, let me say its great to see someone is listening....
Let me just point out that 'tis were the Ultima Dragons who drew the
attention of Origin to here.
If you would like to join us or need more info regarding our club, please
check out alt.games.ultima.dragons or mail Ethereal Dragon at
sbri...@netcom.com.
Thank you for your attention.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*\-\/*\-\ :( SwiftHeart Dragon
(********) ) Due to the absence of swif...@access.mbnet.mb.ca
\******/ / my faithful sidekick -==(UDIC)==-
\****/ / SwiftHeart Rabbit, I "Ultima rules!"
\/_/ shall be using this plain old heart for some time to
come...
Michael V. Pisarczyk
>NNNNOOOOO!!!!!!!!
>For the love of Virtue keep the automap!
>I would never, from choice, buy a game that didn't have one. It takes
>nothing away from exploration and allows the designers to create complex
>environments. Any fool can map a game with a pencil and squared paper.
>Do game designers want to reward people for pausing the game after each move
>and marking a square on a pice of paper?
I still disagree. I like the maps the way they are. Please no automap, it
gives away to much and it takes away from the "spookieness" of being in a
Dungeon.
Please, please, please, please, don't coddle us. The suggestions about things
like a reagent bag are great, because they make the interface more
transparent (which is the goal, right?)
A feature like automap takes away a major decision. Should I run like hell
the whole way through the dungeon, or should I take my time and map it out?
Let me make the choice as to which is more beneficial.
When I first played Doom, I didn't know there was an automap, I still haven't
played it a lot, but now that I know there's an automap, I find myself relying
on it and 'cheating' by using it to figure out stuff...
By the way there was a point made before about the U9 programmers trusting
themselves and not making "Ultima by committee." This is probably the best
suggestion so far...
_________________________ _________________________
Mike Pisarczyk |##### #####| If you choose not to
|###### ######| decide you still have
mvpi...@engprn.mobil.com ### ## ## ### made a choice.
### ### ### -Rush
My opinions are my own! |##### #####|
_________________________|##### #####|_GO BLUE!________________
David Charles Jones
A minor issue, but I still need to get my two cents worth in (so I'm pushy
:). Why not no more 1000+ frames for the Avatar? I, for one, was most
impressed with the graphics in U8. When you think about it, there are
really very very few true RPGs that have extensive animation. True, it is
not really noticeable once enthralled with the game, but it was still VERY
nice to see for a change. If you've got the graphics, why not flaunt 'em?
Use it, but I think that all will agree that it should NOT sacrifice plot
and interface and other things (if this is possible). I also have no
objection to a multi-CD game, the way I figure it, if you're gonna put it on
CD, make it a worthwhile CD game. Quite frankly, I do not want to see
another Ultima installed on my harddrive, I would much rather see a BETTER
Ultima played off my CD drive. If you've got it, USE it. Heck, I'd even
upgrade my CD-ROM drive specifically for U9 if it were really necessary. I
mean, hell, I bought a PC specifically for Ultima 7, call me a nut, but I
guess I am. Basically I guess I am trying to say that you should not drop
anything that is considered a plus if you don't have to. Just add on, and
revise a little. I agree that the jumping and dying has got to go, but I DO
like the climbing, and the jumping might make sense if done within REASON
(ie, not arcade style, not NECESSARY to the game, and NOT fatal at all). I
guess that's about all I have to say for the moment, thanks again for the
time.
--Nathan (the other guy on this account)
______________________________________________________________________________
Kinslayer Dragon | "All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one
-==(UDIC)==- | memory above all others, of him who brough the Shadow
arioch | and the Breaking of the World. And him they named
@csd.uwm.edu | Dragon." ----Eye of the World
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keith Brown
>Subject: Re: Ultima 9 - What Do >You< Want to See?
>From: v9f...@ugrad.cs.ubc.ca (Ho Kiu Lee)
>Date: 13 Nov 1994 02:12:53 GMT
>II. Game Plot
>Just my two cents.
That is a pretty good plot or something like it. I like the idea of people
turning against you, a fake avatar, having to convince first your friends and
then Brittania that you are the Avatar(by upholding the virtues). This is a
great idea for a plot. But still surprise us.
And have LOTS of subplots. Those are great!
Mike Weldon
>A few things I have on my wish list: NPC's who, like in Wizardry VII,
>took action on their own (using information you traded with them to get
>items before you, for instance). A non-linear plot, one that can
I have a comment related to this. One of my favorite moments in U7, check that, my favorite
moment in U7 and probably any adventure game I have ever played was when I borrowed
some guy's notebook to give to the Wisps. The guy told me to return and I would
be given some big reward or something. So I gave to notebook to the Wisps even though
people had warned me about them saying that they would trade info. with anyone,
implying the Guardian. When I returned to the guy's house and found him strung up
following a ritual killing by the Fellowship, with his guts spilling out on the
floor and the Guardian's ugly face laughing at me, my jaw hit the floor. I have never
been so shocked in a game as that moment. So I say there drooling on myself for about
10 minutes before I continued to play with renewed vigor.
Moments like this really make the player despise the enemy. There should be more
scenes like this in U9.
BTW, in the end of U8 the Avatar achieved demi-god status. What will it be like in
U9? Will we have to start out as wimps, getting killed by trolls and zombies again?
I hope not.
Mike
Mark S. Wyman
>On the topic of what our whimps and wishes for Ultima9, here is
>something new:
>In Ultima 7 we have a party of, what, 8 peoples? There is some limited
>ability to auto-pilot them using rudimentary command like run, charge,
>or defend. Now, it will be a revolution if you can give us ability to
>program party members action. Something like:
> Iolo:
> INIT no_init_spell = TRUE
> IF HP_critical critical /\ HAS_Heal_Potion Iolo THEN
> DO WITH PRIORITY 5 Use_Heal_Potion Iolo friend ;
>
> IF round < 1 /\ no_init_spell /\
> DO WITH PRIORITY 1
> BEGIN
> spell := pick {Prayer, Invisibility, Strengh} ;
> Cast Iolo Iolo spell ;
> no_init_spell := FALSE ;
> END ;
> DO WITH PRIORITY 2
> BEGIN
> IF no_Enemy_Spell_Casters THEN
> Use Iolo Bow (Weakest_Foe)
> ELSE Use Iolo Bow (pick Enemy_Spell_Casters) ;
>and so on....
>Hey, we can even let the users program the monsters. You know what,
>you should deliver a monster compiler with Ultima9, that way, we can
>custom the AI of your monster. Maybe you can even make a competition
>of who makes the most interesting (not the thoughest!) monster!
>You know, an interesting monster is a monster that is tough, but does
>make mistake once and a while, like we all living beings do.
>--Jade--
>
Hell, just distribute the source code :)
John Hoffman
(Jimbola) writes:
>
> Hey there. I picked up a copy of star trail, and I have only 1
>problem with it. It seems that when you are in combat, if you cast a
>spell the entire game gets really messed up. You can't see what the
>heck is going on in combat anymore. Has anyone else had this sort of
>problem? Is there going to be a patch put out somewhere so I can get
>this fixed and play my game? Arrrrggg...I'd hate to not be able to
play
>this correctly now that I've bought it.
>
I haven't seen anything like this happen. I've played for 10-15 hours
and only had one problem. This occured when I tried to go off the map
and encountered the elves and tried to retreat. The game locked up.
Besides that the game hasn't had a single problem.
I might add that the game doesn't functions correctly if you don't set
it up as the installation instructions say. You need to have about 1MB
of Expanded memory. If you have less or none at all the game will run
but it crashes and does weird things.
John
Stephane Rebibou
1) From reading these messages, it seems that most people are for a
highly complex combat/talking system. I thought that U7 & 8 got it right,
and I definetely want to use my mouse to do all of the above. U8 combat
was a bit rough, but with the reintroduction of a party, it should be
great. I do not want to have to use the keyboard to talk, and combat
should be as quick and easy as can be, since it is after all not the most
important aspect of the game.
2) Since U9 will be on a CD, it must be FULL!! By that I mean that we
want lots of interaction with people, places and objects. I want to be
able to have a job in a bakery, go sailing, fishing, flying, ie:I should
be able to spend a week in a city looking around without being killed by
a ghoul or a pack of kids (U8) while guards are hanging around and going
about their everyday buisiness. I want a huge world, with lots of places
to see (more like U7). When I started U8, I was very dissapointed to find
that I could only become a Necromencer, and when I decided to walk
around, there was nowhere for me to go as any creature would kill me in 2
moves.
3) Full speech would be great, as long as I can understand what people
are saying.
4) U8 had great graphics, and I am sure that U9 will be even better, but
please, make sure i can recover an object behind a wall or something. The
idea of a transparent wall hotkey seems like a good idea for this.
5)Locating objects like reagents in your bag MUST be made simpler and
other people have also made good sugestions to that effect.ie: when I
pick up some reagents, they should pile up in my bag and not be all over
the place.
6)The top view or angled top view from U8 was fine, and I do not want a
Doom like UW like front on view. It gives me headaches, and you cant see
enough of what I am hoping will be a huge and beautiful world.
7) The atmosphere in U8 was morbid all along, with foes at every corner,
and frankly, that sux. I want more happy people around, happy cities and
pubs wher you feel like sitting down and having a beer with your mates.
More pubs, Casinos, whorehouses, Markets and the like make a hard days
work really pleasant and were some of the great features of U7. So I want
them back!!!
In conclusion, I hope you take notice of the various comments
made by everyone and relise that we want a large world with many things
to do. We dont want to have to become a Necromencer to become an airman
to become a fireman to become a... to become a...etc... If you've played
U8 you get the picture. We want freedom (to a certain limit to complete
the given task of course) to walk around, talk to people, visit places,
in the order we decide to approach things. And please no jumpig on moving
dissapearing platforms and limit the lever puzzles as they are not
challenging and sitting for 3 hours in front of my screen saving, dying
and loading really sux. You should be able to complete the game having
died very few times (in U8 I must have died over 200 times!!!!!).
There's more I'd like to request, but I'm sure that reading all of those
messages should direct you on the right path.
Steph...
Janne Siren
> U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
> fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
I think it's great you take the time to listen to us. I have been an Ultima
fan since the days of the Commodore 64 and I was quite disappointed with the
latest Ultima, U8: Pagan.
1. No arcade sequences. If you are going to make a Super Mario clone
at least make it a good one and don't name it Ultima. Jumping around in U8
would've been quite ok if the controls were better. I think Ultima is
better without any jumping around - or if you think it's necessary, make it
computer guided so I just need to click somewhere and Avatar jumps there.
Combat was nicer in earlier Ultimas. The arcade-style combat in U8 was fun at
first but it soon got boring. It may be more realistic but 'strategic'
fighting is better suited for an Ultima. IMHO.
2. More NPC interaction. U8 had very little real discussions with NPCs. I
think you should consider moving back to the key-word method or at least
give more alternatives to make the discussions interesting!
Solo adventuring in U8 is easier than controlling the party in, say, U6,
but NPC party members make the game much more interesting. It was a lot of
fun to ask people to join your party...
3. Don't sacrifice playability and the story-line for graphics. U8 has very
nice graphics but what it doesn't have is other party members, light
sources and shadows, etc. It's nice to have a beautiful game but don't
sacrifice playability for graphics!
4. Some ideas: The idea, someone posted here, to be able to interact with
the people of Britannia after finishing the game is an excellent one!
Avatar might have a teleport waiting but before he goes through it (to home)
he/she can wander around Britannia, maybe kill some random monsters, talk to
the grateful people etc. It would be a nice way to end the game. This would
only require some extra data for the discussions 'after saving the world'
but would give the player so much more satisfaction for what he has
accomplished.
Thanks for listening us!
--
///------------------------------------------------------------\\\
/// Janne Siren / "Couldn't we just help each other \\\
\\\/// j...@krk.fi / Isn't there enough to share" - Mariah Carey \\\///
\XX/------------------------------------------------------------------\XX/
Nicholas Demetrius Athanas
There is a LOT that I could say about this, but I will try to keep it
down to the most important points.
1) ULTIMA IS AN RPG.
When I play an Ultima game, I want to play an RPG. Not an action game.
Not a Sierra-type adventure game. An RPG. That is how Ultima started and
how it gained its huge following. However, starting with Ultima 7... Maybe
even Ultima 6, Ultima has been getting away from the RPG and moving towards
an adventure game, or if Ultima 8 is any sign, and adventure-arcade hybrid.
What do I mean by this? Well, in recent Ultimas, most of what you are
doing is running around from point A to point B trying to find the right
person to give you the needed item or that necessary clue so you can get to
point D. Your characters don't improve very much over time... They gain a
few hit points and attributes, but not much. Combat is almost an afterthought
(I will get into this later). Optional side-quests are rare. Magic is of
little use except when the plot calls for a certain spell. And in U8, you
don't even have party members!!!!
In an RPG, I want to see my characters getting better with time. I want
statistics to show it, maybe even skills, like Wasteland. I want combat
to be a major part of the game. I want magic to be a major part of the game.
I don't want to be led around by the hand from point A to point B to point C.
2) REAL-TIME COMBAT SUCKS
In U7 & U7.5, combat was a farce. You press 'c' and watch all your party
members run over to the enemy and start hacking away until it dies, then they
run 6 miles south to butcher a poor little deer. You have no control over
your members, and if you give them a missile weapon you risk becoming a
pincushion.
Until computer AI advances to a much higher level, real-time combat as it
is done in U7 and U7.5 is worthless.
Tactical, turn based combat, like we had in U4-U6 is the way to go. Or
perhaps something like in Darklands, where you can stop the action whenever
you want to give orders, and then watch the battle unfold before you. But,if
it is done right, tactical combat can be really fun. If you make most combats
unique (remember the dungeons is U4 & U5?), they can each be a tactical
problem with different solutions. You can still have a few "wandering monsters"
for atmosphere, but they should be kept to a minimum, and if I KILL SOMETHING,
IT DAMN WELL BETTER STAY DEAD!!! I really hate having to kill the same things
over and over again just because the game engine is too poor to remember.
Oh, and another point... magic is an important part of combat. In U7 & U7.5,
magic was pretty much useless becomes things were happening too fast. I liked
it in U4 & U5 when combat spells were essential, and you could find mages as
NPC's to help you out.
3) THE PLOT IS PARAMOUNT
The essence of any good RPG is the plot. The plots of most Ultimas have
been reasonably good, but it is time to pull itself to a higher level and
do what has not been done before... A dynamically branching plot. Give the
player choices and have the plot accomodate them. And not just little choices,
MAJOR choices that affect the very outcome of the game and of the subplots
of the game. You want to talk about non-linearity... well, this is the very
essence of it.
Do not force me to do something I would never want to do in order to
progress the plot. This really only happened in U8, but it was inexcusable.
At least give me a choice.
I want the populace to notice what is going on around them. If I did
something for them, I want them to notice, and to thank me. If I did something
to piss them off, I want them to hate me or fear me.
The characterisation of your companions is VERY important. I want my
companions to have personality. I want them to make comments, and act according
to there natures. U7 and U7.5 made some progress here, but it could have been
better. There were times in U7.5 where I was nearly yelling at Shamino to
show some sort of reaction to the events in the northern castle. Your
companions shouldn't follow you around like dogs. Dupre would get really bored
interrogating the entire city of Britain... He should go off and spend the
afternoon at the pub. Shamino might go off to hunt for dinner. Iolo might stay
with you to help out. Or, on a long hike in the wilderness, the characters
could tell stories without any prompting, or Iolo could sing a song. Things
like that give the characters much more personality.
I could go on, but I have things to do, so I will leave it at this.
I think it is great that Origin is asking the people who play the games
their opinions. I trust that you will make U9 a masterpiece. And if so, I
can pretend that U8 never even existed...
Best of luck,
Nick
Hong Ooi
What do people think of the single-scale map Origin introduced in Ultima
6? Personally, I think it was a mistake. I _much_ preferred the original
system, where you had one map for the wilderness, another for towns, and
another for combat. This meant that objects had roughly the right scale
relative to each other: a mountain range would dwarf a town, for example.
In Ultimas 4 and 5, I always had the feeling of exploring a _large_
continent, even though in 5 I knew (or had a good idea) where most of the
locations were already.
I never got that feeling in 6, where a house would look roughly the same
size as a mountain. It was as if all of a sudden, Britannia had gone from
being a sizable land mass to a small island. It made it more difficult to
hold the suspension of disbelief, which is what's essential for a good
game.
They tweaked the graphics a bit in 7, but to me the underlying problem
remained. For example Britain takes up most of the middle of the map,
which just doesn't seem right. In Serpent Isle and Ultima 8, the problem
was "fixed" by removing the action to totally different locations. Ie,
"we can't make a big world believable, so we'll just set it in a small
world instead". But this is probably not going to be an option for Ultima
9. U9 is going to be set in Britannia, isn't it? Britannia is supposed to
be _big_, isn't it?
It's not as if using various different scales has to mean lower graphical
quality, either. Microprose (for one) had a go at it with Darklands, and
the graphics were fine.
Anyway, that's my contribution.
--
=================
Hong Ooi
ho...@magna.com.au
Sydney, Australia
cy...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
This could lead to trying to through together a lot of stuff that
doesn't fit.
Some of the suggestions for combat have been very interesting
but might be too complicated. I think you should be able to specify a
default action for party members, as well as a one time thing. For
example: as soon as combat starts, Jaana will cast fireball. From
then on, if someone falls below 1 h.p., she will heal them. Otherwise
she will attack the closest monster with whatever weapon she has
equiped. Dupre will attack the closest monster with whatever he has
equiped, unless someone falls below 1 h.p., in which case he will
protect them. And be able to pause the game in the middle of combat
to adjust strategies. So for the most part, you begin combat and
watch, as in U7, but you can change the plans at any point. I think
this could allow party members to cast spells, because you would be
telling them which spells to cast.
The alternative would be the option to choose computer
controlled or turn based combat.
But aside from all the big stuff, the little details can make
a big difference in the game. Things like clouds moving over the sun,
and the wind blowing in U7. I liked the fact that NPCs had their own
lives and scheduals. I also like the idea of auto-notes for
conversation.
I'm sure the graphics and the music will be excelent as usual.
And don't worry too much about making the release date.
Blessed Be,
Cyrf
Keith Brown
a good one. In U7 I loved the mystrey of the murders, the new Fellowship that
was trying to get rid of the virtues.
U9 needs a strong storyline. I like the idea of fighting the Guardian right
off, and beating him, or so we think. The Avatar then returns home to find
Brittania in ruin, (possibly from the guardian or like mentiond before the
Avatar straying from the virtues somehow caused this). Brittania has an
imposter as the Avatar, who could be controlled by the Guardian. This imposter
is offering, once again, a new hope, but he is not teaching or upholding the
virtues which will eventually lead to the Guardians conquest of Brittania. The
real Avatar must convince first his friends and then the world that he is
their hero, he must do this by upholding the virtues. Then the Avatar could
beat the Guardian once and for all, not in battle, by preforming some ritual
and banishing the Guardian someplace where he cannot harm others again.
Keep in mind these story ideas. I have seen many different good ideas. But
still surprise us with the story. I like to dig through these games to unfold
the story. Try to include plot twists also. U6 was great to find out that the
gargoyles were not evil. The interface is very important, but so is the story.
I love a good story. Oh, and of course good graphics and sound!
Great idea to ask for ideas for the design. Keep it up!
Stephen Humburg
I'll tell you what. With all the suggestions you made about the memorizing spells and such why don't you play SSG's Dungeon
and Dragon games and quit complaining. I personally loved U8 and was fascinated and impressed with the reagent use in magic
it makes the game feel more realistic. About the water deal and drowning, granted not all islands are surrounded by sea
cliffs which you fall off if you walk five feet, but can you swim in chain mail. NOT! Try it you'll see why the
programmers made it the way it is. Meanwhile Origin is making the transition from floppy to CD in a remarkable short time,
this means they will also have to make the transition for people, that's why U8 was installed on harddisk. Back to
SwiftHeart's posting, I don't understand why he or she is so hipocritical. SwiftHeart asks for more realism like:
16) Bring back the eating system. Make sure the characters automatically
feed themselves if there are food available. Only complain when there
aren't any food around.
(Try is and isn't instead of are and aren't.)
29) If you can climb up, you can climb down.
Then asks for inane things like:
20) Bring back "you can see it, you can use it" interface.
(Having trouble with chests Mister Long Arms? Aaahh!! TRY DETECT AND DESTROY TRAPS. DUH!)
24) Make sure there is a way for us to kill Lord British.
(TRAITOR! Admitted its fun once or twice, but you deserve the butt kicking British will give you.)
34) Perhaps let LB join the party.
(How many times have you seen Prince Charles or President Clinton in camos shooting the enemy and throwing gernades?)
Granted these strange type of logic could happen in another dimension, but not this one. Na Nu! Na Nu!
Sorry SwiftHeart, but I had an extra two cents I had to throw in. CYA.
JANG HIN LANG
Xylothan <hil...@uidaho.edu> wrote:
>ja...@ecf.toronto.edu was talking about:
>: In article <Cz3u...@cs.ruu.nl>, Wishnu Prasetya <wis...@cs.ruu.nl> wrote:
>
>: > [linear Iolo code]
>
>: [article clipped here]
>
>: ['learning' Iolo binaray tree]
>
> Good Lord! With this much from you guys on AI and programming, we
>could practicly get U9 programed for Origin! Oh... and instead of a
>biniary tree, a 2-3Btree might work better
You would lose processing of O(log n) if a 2-3B trees were used.
Simply construct two AVL trees, one for defense strategies and the
other for offense strategies. Do a simple "health check" to see
which tree should be traversed.
BTW, what I wrote was a simplification of an extensive-form strategy
tree; a representation that is used often in the branch of mathematics
called Game Theory.
.Hin.
Arthur L Wilson
I have watched this thread with a large amount of interest because, like
most of you, I have become dissatisfied with the Ultima series of late. I miss
the "Ultima Trance" which kept me going past all need of sleep, social life, or
food in order to get just "one more" mini-quest done. I think my favorite Utlima
was either 4 or 5 (can't decide which) mainly because they had such good plot
lines and becuase the game play was so much better than anything else out at the
time.
By watching this thread and doing a lot of thinking on my own, I have come
up with the following list of what I would like to see in U9. Some (many?) of
these have been said before. If so, take them as just another vote towards that
possibility.
-party
-multiple characters
-some short-term, mostly long-term
-NPC spellcasters/mages!!!
-combat
-turn based or stop-action (Darklands)
-intelligent NPC's and monsters (no more worrying about being
hit by your own guys except maybe rarely if they critically miss)
-each character should be able to be operated by the user or act independently
(i.e. computer controlled). This should be an option on each character's
stats sheet and changeable at any time.
-no more ARCADE-like sequences! We can do those on our Nintendo's.
I know this has been said many times so far. I can only reiterate
it and hope you listen. :)
-characters
-many different classes
-skills!
-let the number-crunchers among us have some fun! Provide the
tables and charts we want to make our characters "good" and
"efficient."
-Make it into something that might actually be a good paper-and-pencil
RPG.
-Characters should be "importable" from earlier Ultima's. They should be
able to start at their previous abilities, but should be able to go up
from there. This makes the game somewhat more epic and powerful, but
is there anything wrong with this?
-Stats & virtues
-I liked the idea of "popularity", but also visible stats for virtues (again,
an option?). The avatar should have to WORK to stay the avatar. If (s)he
steals, (s)he should have to repent somehow. Pay the person back later 2 or
3 times the amount stolen, visit the honesty shrine and sacrifice an equal
amount, etc.
-Magic
-LOTS of spells, though all should be useful in at least a few situations.
-reagents, etc. are great, but a reagent bag is also a necessity for them.
-different classes should have different spells available to them.
-the Avatar should have ALL spells available. He IS the Avatar, after all.
-gathering reagents can be fun, but also tedious if it has to be done too much
-look in Rolemaster, AD&D, or any other paper-and-pencil RPG for good
spell examples. Computer spells should be DIVERSE. At the very minimum,
a "fly" spell should be included. I HATE it when games don't have one.
-equipment
-better inventory system
-no more food like in U7. Characters should feed themselves automatically if
food is available. Only complain if there is none available, or maybe a
slight mention if food is "low."
-make a way to add personalized "labels" to all equipment. I want to be
able to label each key as to where it should go to.
-transportation
-more modes. Bring back the magic carpets, balloons, grappling
hooks, etc.
-bring back the moongates!! U6 had a REALLY nice system with the red
moonstone.
-plot line
-lots of side-quests for XP and enjoyment. Not boring ones either.
-non-linearity is really nice. Again, if I want totally linear plots like
U7.5, etc, I'll play my Nintendo.
-I am not a dog who fetches things for people, nor a message boy for two
lovers to send notes. Some people find these kinds of quests enjoyable, so
keep them in, but it should be pretty obvious that they are not essential
to the game. Perhaps this should be an option (see below).
-I should NOT need a hint book to solve the game. This makes for VERY
frustrating experiences and linear plots. Half the fun of the old ultimas
was being one of those to write a good walk-through or hint sheet. If you
must buy a clue book to do this, it takes the fun away, IMHO.
-land
-make it HUGE (fill the CD!)
-don't make it so empty...A huge land is nice, but travelling endlessly
without anything interesting happening is very boring.
-random encounters should happen only a moderate amount, not every step
your character takes. However, there should also be enough for some
interest and XP. The later Ultimas seemed to already have this balance
figured out fairly well (U6 was best for this, I think).
-I personally LOVED the way u5 did land in 2 scales -- outdoor, and
dungeon/city. Please bring that back. The way the maps are currently
laid out, it seems like the land is TINY because the cities take up
most of it. Very unrealistic.
-Dungeons
-first person perspective, like Ultima Underworld. Perhaps a series
of add-ons using the UW engine that could interface directly (character
transfers, etc) with U9 would be EXCELLENT.
-being able to see monsters before they attack us would be nice. U6
dungeons were good, but needed to be 1st person perspective.
-time
-scheduling is great, but can also be a pain. Make an item that can
tell you the location of any character in the game (by name) unless
purposely "hidden." (no tracing bad guy locations...:) )
-adjustable time rate would be an EXCELLENT solution to the problem of
waiting for NPC's to show up at certain times, etc.
-sleep should be a necessity, but not a terrible inconvenience. All abilities
should decrease from lack of sleep.
-interaction
-some people (like me) like typing what they want to say rather than
clicking on a sentence. Some don't. Yet another option.
-game and interface customization
-let the user customize how he wants the interface to be. If they
like full screen, let them have it. If they like only half the
screen being world-map, a quarter being an automap, and the other
quarter being character(s) status bars, text screen for
conversation, etc, let them do it. I happen to know this is
NOT that hard to do -- just takes some initial thought and
preparation in the coding.
-in Dungeon Hack, you could choose which options you liked in the
game -- i.e. whether there were undead, secret doors, etc. This
was WONDERFUL! Let the configuration screen in the beginning of
the game do things like decide whether they want food or not,
whether they want full or abbreviated conversations, etc. It would
be best if these options could also be changed in the middle of
the game.
-configurable hot keys are a necessity (with a default configuration, of
course).
-take advantage of the CD. CD's are HUGE and you should fill it up
with conversation text, soundtracks, more graphics, cinematic
sequences. The actual game engine should be quite small in
relative size to this data. However, that does NOT mean skimp on
the game engine, for in the end, the engine is FAR more important.
-Graphics
-Nice, but ultimately superfluous to a good RPG. These should
take last place compared to playability, plot, interface, etc.
-also, don't let graphics ruin speed of the game. Give users
options of which graphics they should use for their game. Those
with P5/90's want the high-end, detailed graphics, and those
with 386's want something simple and fast. I know that Origin
is focusing on high-end graphics, but don't lose the customers
who don't necessarily have the money for hardware upgrades.
-if possible, there should be an SVGA mode for 1024x720 graphics. At
the very least, a 640x480 mode.
-a choice of overhead, perspective with view rotation, etc. views should
be allowed.
-tele-playing.
-perhaps a modem version should be made that allows multiple players to
interact in the same environment. This could also be done (easier) through
networks.
--
Jacques Guy
>1. No arcade sequences. If you are going to make a Super Mario clone
>at least make it a good one and don't name it Ultima. Jumping around in U8
>would've been quite ok if the controls were better. I think Ultima is
>better without any jumping around - or if you think it's necessary, make it
>computer guided so I just need to click somewhere and Avatar jumps there.
Well said! I keep playing and re-playing Ultima 7 not for combat, but for
*tourism*, seeing the shadow of the clouds overheads, raindrops falling,
green flies buzzing in the rubbish around Lock Lake, falling asleep over
a field of poppies, discovering places totally besides the story (such
as the burnt-out house in the middle of the swamps north of Cove,
with the crucifix-shaped reeds, the spear of destiny, and the grail),
in other words, sight-seeing.
>2. More NPC interaction.
Yes, yes, yes, YES! All those irrelevant side stories, unnecessary to
the main plot, they are what made it worthwhile.
>3. Don't sacrifice playability and the story-line for graphics. U8 has very
>nice graphics but what it doesn't have is other party members, light
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
>sources and shadows, etc.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Indeed, and that made U8 worthless. I felt like playing Leisure Suit
Larry, complete with the corny jokes, and the jabbering mouths. I found
the graphics of U8 absolutely awful. Fuzzy, with characters with a smooth
blob for a head. U7 Serpent Isle had the best graphics by far. You need
comic-style (not *photographic*) graphics to make the foreground stand
out from the background, and to delineate the characters. I should say
that the graphics of Ultima 7 should ne be improved upon. As the saying
goes in my mother tongue: "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien" ("Better can
make things worse"). By all means stay with U7 graphics, and, generally,
the game engine of U7 Serpent Isle. And keep the humour British (it all
started with Lord British in Britannia, didn't it? ... coming from
someon from a country which has been at war with Britain most of its
existence, that's telling, isn't it?)
>4. Some ideas: The idea, someone posted here, to be able to interact with
>the people of Britannia after finishing the game is an excellent one!
That is a splendid idea indeed.
>Thanks for listening us!
Ditto.
Andrew Luyt
As a relative newcomer to the Ultima series, I think it would be
a wise to include a synopsis of the previous Ultima games, characters,
etc. When i bought my first Ultima (The Black Gate), I was confused
as hell -- who was this Avatar? Why do all these people know me?
Yes, there was a brief outline of previous stories in the fellowship
handbook, but it (as I only learned later) was a revisionist
history and only added to the confusion. So, for the benefit of
new players, include background information on characters, cities,
and storylines of previous games (esp Ultima 8 which I refuse to
buy merely for this purpose) Thanks.
--Andrew Luyt
Keith Brown
>Subject: Re: Ultima 9 - What Do >You< Want to See?
>Date: 14 Nov 1994 12:07:09 GMT
>3) A special container for keys and perhaps a possibility to label them
because>if
> you have 4 golden keys which look all the same it gets very bordom to try
>them
> every time you want to open a door.
I like the key ring idea. If you find a key you put it on the ring, then to
unlock a door you can use the key ring with the door and if you have the
proper key the door opens. I hated trying every key that I had on an unlocked
door in U7.
Daniel Starr
Like most others here, I miss being able to type in a topic. The
select-from-list method of U7+ is slick, but:
(a) if you replay the game you have to go through every single thread all
over again [one reason I haven't much replayed since U6];
(b) you can never be clever and figure something out ahead of time, which
is annoying and eliminates a whole class of nice puzzles;
(c) if the designers have put the make-topic-available flag somewhere else,
then even though Joe says "Bob knows about ancient books" you can't
ask him about it. Argh! [Big problem in Serpent Isle.] [Bob due to
Allen Petersen.]
Instead:
After all other conversation options, add a "..." option that lets you type
in a topic. Do a word-match on as-yet-unveiled topics and trigger if there's
a match.
That would work pretty well; it would keep the current interface 90% of
the time, but if the designers neglected to set a flag, or if you were
replaying the game, or if you had a neat idea, you'd be covered.
Combat:
I suggest that the player should be able to give the avatar (and/or NPCs)
orders that would thereafter be followed automatically, especially "chop
at the enemy I click on until he dies". Manual combat can be fun but I
don't want to be forced to it all the time.
A good compromise between real-time and turn-based is pause-for-orders: you
can stop the action at any time with (P) and change fighting orders, then
hit (P) again and resume.
--
Daniel Starr | Graphics CPU demand will peak in 1995;
starr-...@yale.edu | AI is the processor hog of the future.
| --------------------------------------------------
"Scuppers. Hosepipe." | PC with 10^10 neurons: 40-80 years. (Moore's law)
Chris
: Meanwhile Origin is making the transition from floppy to CD in a
: transition for people, that's why U8 was installed on harddisk.
That is COMPLETELY stupid. Strike Commander was released on CD BEFORE
Ultima 8 hit the stores, and it runs with only 5 MB installed to the hard
drive. So does Privateer, which requires only 1.2 MB on the hard drive.
(I'm not sure when Privateer was released on CD, but there is NO excuse
at all for releasing U8 as CD-to-HD the way they did.)
Chris Joughin
(cjou...@unixg.ubc.ca)
Xylothan
Characters would equip themselves. BAD IDEA! I *HATE* having the computer
decide to use a Glass Sword to kill Slime! They should leave the weapon
they have in there hand and use it. Either way, don't just have them
equip the best weapon they have and use it... (I lose to many glass
swords/get hit with to many fire doom blow/etc that way.)
-- Jason
#include "ultima9.suggestions.h"
--
"In another world, in a time to come" ... maybe Ultima will return;
and since Origin is listening, you bet it will!! Thanks Brian Martin!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When your enemy brings up your | Jason's Sega Page (for 32X & Saturn!)
past, remind him of his future | http://www.uidaho.edu/~hill931
Hong Ooi
says...
>
>Therefore in Ultima 9 some of the character devolpment should deal
>with the Avatar trying to regain the virtues he lost and becoming the
>Avatar again and not in just in name only. Origin could have some
>wicked fun in this. We could find out that all the actions taken on
>Pagan had a equal impact on Brittianna and it's the Avatar and not the
>Guardian who in fact destroys Lord British's relm. Or LB, seeing the
>depths to which the Avatar has fallen, could summon a new warrior to
>take the quest of the Avatar and part of the game would be spent in
>competion with this computer character.
Yes! Great idea! Who says the player should have a monopoly on Avatarhood
anyway? Another suggestion: the Guardian has his OWN "avatar", or
champion, of sorts. The game could become a struggle between these two
characters. Plus, try to flesh out the opposing side's philosophy a
little. I don't know about other people, but I get a bit jaded playing
game after game where it's taken for granted that you're playing a Good
Guy and the other side is the Bad Guy. Even if the other side is supposed
to get trashed, they should be able to come up with some sort of
rationalisation for their actions. That was one of the nice touches in
Ultima 7; how the people who joined the Fellowship genuinely thought they
were doing the right thing. Ditto with Ultima 6 and the gargoyles vs
humans.
>Of course my personal favorite is having a reformed Blackthorn,
>maybe on the road to Avatarism himself, come in at the last min.
>to save the day. He....He...He....
Hmmm... I wonder who the Guardian's avatar could be? ;-)
Sir Launcelot du Lake
The Codex of Ultimate Wisdom caught Brian Martin writing:
: My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now,
: U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the RPG
: fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
that's very good (and brave :)) of thee :) will Lord British be involved
in this? he should :)
: Let me first state that it is our goal to make U9 a much more traditional
: Ultima. That is to say that we want U9 to be more like U4 than U8, (yes, we
: learned something from U8). U9 will take place in Britannia, will be very
: interactive and non linear, and will bring the party back to the Avatar. Any
good, I'd say the best storyline of the whole series so far is Ultima V:
Warriors of Destiny.. the plot was very well conceived so that we can do
almost anything in any order and the story still falls into place towards
the end
: other suggestions concerning magic, combat, or any other aspect of game play
: would be very welcome. Please post any suggestions to this board. Myself and
: other U9 team members will be watching for your comments and suggestions. We
: want to make a game that you want to play, so who better to tell us what to
: include than you?
please do not bring things from space, pseudo-science or any other
semblance of sci-fi into the game.. most attempts at blending high
fantasy and science fiction have ended in a disastrous mudpie... keep it
purely medieval fantasy with magic and medieval elements - look at Weis
and Hickman's Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends for a superb example.
also, make sure the plot remains consistent with whatever went on in U7,
7.5, and 8... and mayhap even the Avatar trilogy. The strength of the
Ultima series has been this consistency between different episodes that
gives it a grand, epic adventure atmosphere and feeling :)
--
************************************************************************
* Sir Launcelot du Lake Internet: swk...@leonis.nus.sg __ *
* Avatar & Knight of Britannia Bitnet: swk...@nusvm.bitnet / \ *
********************************************************** | () | *
* Crom, I've never prayed to you, I have no time for it * |\_\ /_/| *
* Even you don't remember the deeds of men, why we * | _ _ | *
* fought, why we died. So if it pleases you Crom, * |/ | | \| *
* grant me one request...grant me revenge...and if you * | | *
* do not listen, then the hell with you! - Conan * /____\ *
************************************************************************
Andrew Bainbridge-Smith
Exodus.....man that was one game. But my personal fav among all the
Ultima was Ultima 5 with Ultima 4 coming in a close second.
What would I like to see in Ultima 9
For one.....I would love to get rid of the arcadish jumping ard....I mean
practically abt the only things that were a pain were the jumping ard esp
on route to visit the Mountain King via the three necromancers. I mean
its okay to have such things like jumping and hopping if the restoring
and saving didn't take so darned long......but I'd rather have something
more sensible to be the pain in my ass.
Combat,....thats a toughie....cos I liked the turn based combat...but
would really prefer not to have it now.....so I guess we should stick to
the U7 combat system with better party AI. Increase the AI of the party
members...and let me interact with them more...but for heavens sake let me
be able to tell my party members not to waste reagents with uncessary
spells when a monster can be easily killed with my sword or arrows or a
crossbow. Btw I am a sword addict...gimme a sword over any weapon
anytime. THats why I liked U5.....I could go in solo and trash away at
the monster with my sword....u can do that too with later Ultimas but its
just that wee bit difficult. Also I found the yakking during combat a
nice touch but the words on screen sorta clutters up the screen and I hate
screen clutter especially during combat.....so if U9 is a not a full
speech product....at least let the combats have full speech, so that there
will be no screen clutter....that would be awesome...noisy combat...the
way it should be. Also I liked the idea of glowing weapons representing
magic weapons ala U7....it sorta makes me feel better to actually visually
see my magic weapon hittng away at the enemy rather than the same old
boring looking sword in U8. Get rid of the Avatar's helmet, makes hime
look like a robot. Bring back the ultra colourful spell book in U7, I
really hate inventory control esp with reagents....so a spell book that
mixes evrthing for u would be really a great asset esp in crisis
situations like in Combat where u need to cast fireball quick. Also have
a pop-up menu to be able to command ur party members during combat...something
like Wing Commander....this is handy in case a party member gets too much
hits and doesn't know what to do.....at least can tell him/her to retreat.
YEap more control during combat....Wing Commander style......rather than
the old turn based system which was unrealsitic. For example when combat
begins....everybody will wait to see how the avatar reacts and what he
tells them to do b4 they proceed to doing anything....and if the avatar
happens to be sorta like taking a coffee break somewhere....the party
memebrs should be able to react after sometime....like the idiot Maniac.
Of course the prerogative is the party memebers do not have to obey the
avatar but will only listen to the avater according to his actions in
the game so far which is according to the virtues......we can forget abt
all the un-avatarish things he did in Pagan...cos the avatar was
alone....so hush hush would be the order....so he should set up to redeem
himself by going on another of those U4 quests again....just to satisfy
his own ego...and of course all this would be much more exciting because of
the threat of the Guardian is still present and imminent. This would
reduce the need for too many busy work and would have something for the
Avatar to do besides trying to kick the behind of the pain in the butt
Guardian. Heheh also it would pay a short tribute to U4 cos many pple
feel that U4 was certainly the highpoint in the series so far. Also
during combat mebbe we could control the swinging of the sword rather than
clicking on that sickenly small pixel just to hit the monster.....the
worse was U8 when I had to align myself correctly otherwise I would be
slashing at thin air while the monsters get in those damaging hits. One
final word....bring back the magic axe.....I really miss that....I may not
want to use it...but I sure would like my party members to use it its the
second best weapon already in my view.
Bring back eating and food....I mean I remember the old days of Ultima 4
and 5 where it reached a point where I could actually taste the blend
ration during an excursion and that superb rump steak tasted exquisite
at the tavern after a hard days work. Also at the tavern I enjoyed
treating everyone in my party to a proper meal as opposed to the food in
the inventory (I think that was U5)...and at other times I would have a main
food inventory where the party members could help themselves to the food
rather than the pathetic whining in Ultima 7 and where I had to hand feed
each of them like a baby. I mean the worse thing was having to scroll
through the status tryingto find out who was that idiot that was
whining...that was definitely an oversight by Origin. U7-2 may have hot
keys but the problem was still there....and U8 got rid of eating
altogether...which was a bit unreal really....thus stick to the early
Ultima system of eating...put the food all in an inventory and let the
party members help themselves when they are hungry...and the Avatar's job
is just to see that that inventory is always fully stocked. Also...please
dun make them hungry so fast......its irritating to keep on buying food
only to see the food disappearing so fast be real....mebbe let them eat
two square meals a day rather than the standard three.
Get rid of the gumps.....it may have been graphically pleasing...but
really messy.....lets have one or two windows where I could do inventory
control all in one go...including the changing of weapons and armour.
Don't have so many windows open....it gets cluttery after a while. Also
have the option like in U7 to pool all the money together and all info
should be shown in that single window. This would not make it unreal as
in real life all u needed to do if u wanted to give a spare weapon to the
party member is to pass it to him. Using the gump system, u would first
have to open two inventory gump and drag the weapon to the other
inventory...if u wanted him to use the weapon u would have to open the
status window and put the sword in the gump and take the other sword to
put it in the hands of the user. Wouldn't it be so simple to just have one
window where u could see everyone and just drag items ard....no fuss???
Retain the jumping ability....but don't gear the puzzles to make use of
it...its really irritating...my heart ached when I saw my Hard disk go
into overdrive just to save or restore a file....although with the disk
cache on the restoring was so much of a pain. Mind u I have a VLB dx2-66
with 8 megs of RAM and a 420 MEg hardisk and a 32 bit accelerator card.
Never in my whole life of plaing Ultima from 1-7 have I saved and restored
as much as I have in U8. So retain the jumping and climbing ability, I
thought the climbing of the mountains in the Underworld in U5 to get the
shard of cowardice was simply awesome...Also let the Avatar be able to
swim in shallow waters.....and roll out them ships.....whoa shooting
cannons at sea dragons in U4 was simply awesome. Fighting pirates across
ships was also sensational...sure miss it. Er talking abt tributes...how
abt having a special cameo appearance by the ORCs...or rather those that
are still alive.....wouldn't want bridge trolls now though..cos the trolls
have grown so enormous in size wouldn't want to get into another conflict
with them anymore over a few gold coins...nosireee (wonder how they got
under the bridges in the first place).
Graphics wise.....U8 beats them all.......sound wise U8 was
superb.....although I didn't get any in my GUS 8(, but I have heard the SB
sounds and its great keep it up. Also...no real actors in U9 please I am
not ready for someoneto act as the avatar instead of me. We lost the
ability to be able to name bluehair in Wing COmmander III don't one to
lose that privelege in my fav computer game series of all time. THe
reason I wanted the Avartar to take off that silly helmet was that I
wanted the Avartar to be able to scratch his head should he be standing
ard ildy for a long period of time not doing anything...I am surprised
that none of those 1200 frames that went to the avatar allowed the avatar
to scratch himself...I mean most of the time he would be standing
motionless like a robot if I don't make it do anything. Er I used the it
on purpose. NOw that we are back in Britannia in U9....bring back the
night and day and rain and snow and fog......instead of the perpetual
twilight experienced in Pagan, which the game had adequately explained.
Music wise....all Ultima musics were great.....I could still remember
stones in U5 on the pc speaker being played in full glory in U6 on my
Soundblaster 1.0 card.....score 10 for all music in Ultima...my fav is
stones closely followed by the haunting tune in the fellowship halls in
U7. Could we also have text on screen with some other fonts...they were
so difficult to read in the fonts on U8. Nothing fancy...just plain
readable fonts will do...no need the fancy stuff like in U7.
Ultima 9 has all the potential to be a legendary game in the Ultima
series....or it could sound the death knell to the series...therefore it
is of paramount importance that Origin gets it right...and I have no doubt
that they will......but till U9 comes out all guns firing......I think I have
only one thing to say to Origin...."Thou has lost an eigth", "Thou has
lost an eigth" <-----thats two eigths.
--
=========================oooo Joseph Chew ooo ===========================
email: tyj_...@kurtz.eee.utas.edu.au voice: (002)233546
=========================================================================
"My mama always said that life was like a box of cho-co-lates, you'll
never know what you're going to get" Forrest Gump
Leonard Harms
>In article <784770...@tungle.demon.co.uk> Ni...@tungle.demon.co.uk (Nick Hadlow) writes:
>>For the love of Virtue keep the automap!
>>I would never, from choice, buy a game that didn't have one. It takes
>>nothing away from exploration and allows the designers to create complex
>>environments. Any fool can map a game with a pencil and squared paper.
>>Do game designers want to reward people for pausing the game after each move
>>and marking a square on a pice of paper?
>I still disagree. I like the maps the way they are. Please no automap, it
>gives away to much and it takes away from the "spookieness" of being in a
>Dungeon.
>Please, please, please, please, don't coddle us. The suggestions about things
>like a reagent bag are great, because they make the interface more
>transparent (which is the goal, right?)
>A feature like automap takes away a major decision. Should I run like hell
>the whole way through the dungeon, or should I take my time and map it out?
>Let me make the choice as to which is more beneficial.
What I would like is a way to earn maps. Instead of going to some guy, and
he gives you a whole map. Maybe he just says something like "well ive only
been down to level 2 in dungon X". Then he might sell you the map for killing
the 2 dragons on level 2, so he can finish maping it. Then the map you do
get is only partial and looks really tattered. And maybe latter you can
find a small piece of that map to use, or add onto the map you do have. And
for gods sake make the map in the box more usefull. The map in U8 was useless.
I used the map from U7 and U6 lots more than U8's map. I could actually see
a cave on the map and say hmm thats an intersting place to go. If the map
is not going to add to game I dont even want it in the box. I dont want to
pay extra money for another map like U8's.
--
Latter..............| And the man traveling at the speed of
LEN | light turned around, and said
lha...@cse.unl.edu| "look here i come"
Matuse
bogus address, and my mail bounced...and i'm not in the mood to track down
where he's actually from, so here is my response here:
Just had to make me dig out my old maps didn't you? :)
The watcher can be found in the following places, every time you complete a
quest or request of hers, go to a place where she could be...you'll have an
advantage since you already have the cornocopia...
1:North of the right ventricle, there is a 1 shaped artery, with a little
exterior zone to the left and right...the watcher can be found on either side
in these little 4 room hallways.
2: as above....just on the opposite side you found her last time
3:Go all the way east, and then all the way north, you'll hit a dead end
right below the left atrium...the watcher can be found in the little
alcove
just south and west from here, between the left Vent and left Atr.
4: Go all the way west...in exactly the middle (vertically) of the
screen, right next to the exterior wall of the right atrium, the watcher
can be found.
5: Looking on the "area" command, you can see 2 blood vessels going north
from the bottom of the heart...if you go inside the right one, and then
go
straight north through it, you can stumble upon the watcher...beware lubs
and dubs tho, they tend to wash you from the heart. Try and get the
little gibbering maonder bit...he gives warnings of lubs and dubs so you
can seek safety...getting flush-ed out all the time gets wearying.
Note: The watcher will only appear in each place *once*...when you find
her in one place, you won't find her there again (and you'll get a
message to
that effect)
Hope that helps.
--
{-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-}
{- Disclaimer1: All opinions expressed here, no matter how seemingly strange -}
{- and evil, are not only the author's, but are totally correct as well -}
{- Disclaimer2: Any spelling/grammar errors in this post are also the author's}
{- and if you bother to flame them, he'll just laugh his ass off at you. -}
{-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-}
Bill Clinton
> between "thrill seekers" and RPG players with U8, and you know what happened
> with U8. While U8 seemed like a good idea at the time, it didn't work.
> Frankly, I fear that if we tried to make another U8, only better, RPG players
> from across the world would come to Austin and kill us.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Probably...
> The public reaction to U8 is why we're trying to make a more traditional
> Ultima with U9. I hope that a large cross section of game players will play
> and enjoy U9, but we are designing the game with hard core role players in
> mind.
Hard core role players of the world unite! :)
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Jacques Guy
>As a relative newcomer to the Ultima series, I think it would be
>a wise to include a synopsis of the previous Ultima games, characters,
>etc.
It would be even nicer to have the whole series from Ultima 1 to
Ultima 6 redone with the Ultima 7 graphics and engine. Many of us
I venture to guess, have become acquainted with the Ultima series
through U7 and Ultima Underworld, have tried to lay our hands
on earlier episodes, and have been put off by the relatively
primitive graphics and interfaces.
Robert Shannon Gregg
> I have a comment related to this. One of my favorite moments in U7, check that, my favorite
|> moment in U7 and probably any adventure game I have ever played was when I borrowed
|> some guy's notebook to give to the Wisps. The guy told me to return and I would
|> be given some big reward or something. So I gave to notebook to the Wisps even though
|> people had warned me about them saying that they would trade info. with anyone,
|> implying the Guardian. When I returned to the guy's house and found him strung up
|> following a ritual killing by the Fellowship, with his guts spilling out on the
|> floor and the Guardian's ugly face laughing at me, my jaw hit the floor. I have never
|> been so shocked in a game as that moment. So I say there drooling on myself for about
|> 10 minutes before I continued to play with renewed vigor.
|>
|> Moments like this really make the player despise the enemy. There should be more
|> scenes like this in U9.
|>
-Robert
Mr MD James
I'm using 132. ahh, that's better)
Anyway, this is my suggestion (and it's worth a lot more than 2 cents)
Have real-time combat. Have the party members react accordingly. ie, if
attacked, defend yourself, don't just sit there and take it (unless the A
doesn't want you to, but don't let them get killed just because the A is
a prick) Have the ability to pause combat, and issue orders to your guys,
if they're not doing anything, give them a list of options (AI or no?), if
they're not doing anything, have them help somebody else, or attack the
nearest guy, or heal themselves/somebody else, or run. If the fight's going
badly, they might run away, depending on how they're feeling, and how's the
A's been treating them lately. Generally, make them react like people!
Orders like,
go and hit them. (targetted)
go and hit somebody (anybody, not on our side)
go and defend a location/person (targetted) (missile or melee)
shoot them (missile/magic) (targetted)
heal people who get hurt.
go there, there, then there, and hit somebody (waypoints)
and many many more (ever actually seen this song on a recording?,
they're always advertising it)
ObRaveAboutGraphicsAndOldUltima's: I'd play U2 and U3, but they got the
crappiest (almost) graphics. (and I can't get anywhere in U2-help!)
bye
Beastiality inc. |"In death, as in life, there are those
mdj...@ccds.cc.monash.edu.au |who will try to rule, and those who
Mark James |will let them" - Me.
Bill Clinton
I actually liked the graphics/gameplay of U6 better than U7 and ALOT
better than U8 (what else is new?). Don't change the engine too much,
maybe just improve the graphics to a higher resolution...
Daniel Starr
>The public reaction to U8 is why we're trying to make a more traditional
>Ultima with U9. I hope that a large cross section of game players will play
>and enjoy U9, but we are designing the game with hard core role players in
>mind.
Yes. I think most people are introduced to RPGs by those who already play
them, or by a nifty introduction playing in the store ("Avatar! Know
that the time has finally come..."). Once a novice starts playing Ultima N
he'll enjoy it for the same reasons all the rest of us do. Is there any
reason to believe people _weren't_ enjoying Ultima 7 because it _didn't_
have arcade sections?
I can only think of two points to especially gear toward a novice. One is
a bang-up introduction to grab 'em in the stores. Particularly for Ultima
IX, some sort of recap on-screen might be in order...
A Britannian storyteller sitting round a fire with his friends, his voice
narrating scenes displayed as he tells them "The legend of ... the Avatar.
Long, long ago..." [U1-U7 animations as the story is told.] "And then,
having vanquished the Guardian, he set sail for the Serpent Isle, and was
never seen again." [clip reproducing Serpent Isle intro] "Some say he
fought the Guardian and defeated him again." [sensationalized clip for
Serpent Isle ending.] "Some say the Guardian in anger banished him to a
doomed world." [Pagan clip] [return to fireside] "And a very few say that
in our time of greatest need, he will break free of that prison to redeem
us for all time." [pause] Companion: "I'd tell him to hurry, Bard."
[cut to menu]
Heck, never mind the novices, WE would love an intro like that. Brings
back all the warm, fuzzy "I am the Avatar and I _save_ worlds" feeling.
People like to feel good about themselves, y'know?
The other important-novice-feature would be some sort of adviser
companion, and/or a notebook, to keep the novice going. Of course, that
too is nice even for veterans.
Aubrey Chen
It looks like people posting here are getting more feedback, so I guess I
will repost my list of U9-suggestions here. :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) No more stone-jumping stuff. No more 1,000+ frames for the Avatar. No
more step-into-the-water-and-die routine. No more
have-to-be-within-a-certain-distance-in-order-to-open-that-drawer
type of interface. No more click-on-specific-pixel-or-else system.
2) More plot, more NPCs, more monsters (I wouldn't mind seeing the
return of Zorn), more world, more side-quests, more specialized
weapons/armours (like the Black Sword and Slayer), more useful spells,
more transportation devices, more speed in gameplay.
3) Less linearity, less chores to handle, less bugs.
4) Return of the eight Virtues and morality.
5) Multiple party members. Return good friends Iolo, Shamino, and Dupre
to us.
6) Recreation of some old but legendary weapons like the Quicksword.
7) Intermittent cut-scenes to highlight the dramatic portion of the game.
8) No limit in the number of charges in a teleportation device.
9) Make the final battle more interesting than the one in U7.
10) An enhanced combat system. Should allow you to choose between
real-time/turn-based and auto/manual. Make it like the ones used in
Dragonslayer and Final Fantasy.
11) Implement keyboard control. Make sure there are plenty of hot-keys
otherwise.
12) faster loads and saves.
13) Make sure the Avatar is punished if he/she performs unvirtuous acts.
14) Clean up the inventory system. Make sure a keyring exists.
15) Use a simple-to-use spellbook to manage all the spells. No reagent
required would be nice, or use the system featured in UW. Perhaps
allow us to research the spells we want to learn each evening prior
to retirement. Make sleep a necessary factor with this. Make sleeping
beneficial by giving us clues in our dreams and allow us to do things
more efficiently (fight better, spellcasting success rate increases,
etc).
16) Bring back the eating system. Make sure the characters automatically
feed themselves if there are food available. Only complain when there
aren't any food around.
17) The Avatar SHOULD return to Britannia as a powerful being.
18) Bring back the Fat Man Alister Sanger for music score. Have switches
in the game which allow us to adjust the music, sound effects, and
speech volume level. The sound effects should be digitized also.
Multiple channel sounds effects like the one featured in U8.
19) Don't make it SVGA only. Do it like WC3. Have the game in both VGA
and SVGA.
20) Bring back "you can see it, you can use it" interface.
21) An adventure to the other two missing realms: Lands of the Dark
Unknown and Lands of the Feudal Lords.
21) Bring back the portrait contest, please?
22) Don't make it a multi-CD game unless you really have to.
23) Make it multiplayer?
24) Make sure there is a way for us to kill Lord British.
25) Multiple character portraits to select from.
26) Top-down view. First-person view would be too slow for overland
explorations and orthogonal view is simply too annoying.
27) NPC should talk more often, perhaps offer you hints on how to proceed
in your quest.
28) Multiple routes for solving puzzles.
29) If you can climb up, you can climb down.
30) Love interest: Nastassia for male Avatar and ? for female Avatar.
31) Make the game run smoothly by loading the most frequently used code into
memory. Use at least 8MB RAM, 16 MB for faster operations.
32) Use flags efficiently.
33) Make NPC more life-like. Respond like real people in both action and
words.
34) Perhaps let LB join the party.
That pretty much sums it up...for now anyway. :)
So what do you all think?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*\-\/*\-\ :( SwiftHeart Dragon
(********) ) Due to the absence of swif...@access.mbnet.mb.ca
\******/ / my faithful sidekick -==(UDIC)==-
\****/ / SwiftHeart Rabbit, I "Ultima rules!"
\/_/ shall be using this plain old heart for some time to
come...
Nick Hadlow
For the love of Virtue keep the automap!
I would never, from choice, buy a game that didn't have one. It takes
nothing away from exploration and allows the designers to create complex
environments. Any fool can map a game with a pencil and squared paper.
Do game designers want to reward people for pausing the game after each move
and marking a square on a pice of paper?
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||
| Nick Hadlow ||"Et semel emissum volat irrevocabile ||
| UK || verbum" ||
| Ni...@tungle.demon.co.uk || - Horace ||
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Taro Rehrl
Please get back some of your original game developers.
- Denis Loubet for artwork (especially portraits)
I liked his artwork in the manuals of Ultima 1-6 very much.
- Dana Glover for Music (The music in U8 is no match for the U7 music)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And PLEASE PLEASE allow e.g. german players to receive the ORIGINAL
english version of your game. The german translation of U8 was
HORRIBLE and I miss the Guardians ORIGINAL voice which was great in
U7 1/2.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanx,
Taro
Konstantin Boyandin
I have just found a lot of useful suggestions to be implemented (I
suppose the subject was Ultima series). I think I will use several of these
suggestions in a FRP game of my own, which I am making (sorry, terribly
slow) now. I ahve several useful ideas already, but these ones are good, too.
I wonder, could anyone compile, post and support FRP games features
lists? The ones missing in the existing games, the one you players would be
very glad to have?
If so, please let me know. I plan to start a new series of FRP
games... as soon as I finish this first one (you see, to work in background
mode draws back very much).
I would appreciate any discussion on this topic (probably it should
be transferred to another newsgroup, probably not). If you plan to email me
your opinions, PLEASE contact me first (I have limited email access and will
tell you another address to send me data to).
Thanks again, FRP players. Hope to meet you soon.
Best regards,
Konstantin.
RYAN R. GILE
>A Britannian storyteller sitting round a fire with his friends, his voice
>narrating scenes displayed as he tells them "The legend of ... the Avatar.
>Long, long ago..." [U1-U7 animations as the story is told.] "And then,
>having vanquished the Guardian, he set sail for the Serpent Isle, and was
>never seen again." [clip reproducing Serpent Isle intro] "Some say he
>fought the Guardian and defeated him again." [sensationalized clip for
>Serpent Isle ending.] "Some say the Guardian in anger banished him to a
>doomed world." [Pagan clip] [return to fireside] "And a very few say that
>in our time of greatest need, he will break free of that prison to redeem
>us for all time." [pause] Companion: "I'd tell him to hurry, Bard."
>[cut to menu]
that's a cool idea, but not for 9. RAther, it should probably be the intro
to the next trilogy (for opener of U10). With Cd-Rom technology, it could
be amazing. Plus I would love to see some fancy graphic representations of
Mondain, Minax, and Exodus (the ones in U6 were good, but could be better)
Ryan
RYAN R. GILE
>It would be even nicer to have the whole series from Ultima 1 to
>Ultima 6 redone with the Ultima 7 graphics and engine. Many of us
>I venture to guess, have become acquainted with the Ultima series
>through U7 and Ultima Underworld, have tried to lay our hands
>on earlier episodes, and have been put off by the relatively
>primitive graphics and interfaces.
I might buy that :)
Ryan
Christopher Cow
TACTICAL COMBAT, with a decent quick combat feature for those who get
tired of it. No more of this real-time stuff please... it's just too
dificult to perform complex tasks (like switching weapons, casting
spells, etc. when the bad guys are pummeling you.
Combat should be more difficult than in U7 (trivial), but less than U8
(impossible if more than one monster was attacking at a time)
It would be nice if the monsters got tougher as you increased in skill,
either by different types of monster or by a grading or ranking system.
Just my $0.02,
Chris
Jim Wolford
RUNE MAGIC. In UW and UW II the rune magic is almost open ended, there some
undocumented spells, and undocumented spells have a certain charm. Also
rune magic is eaiser to experiment with than reagent spells.
Wolford avatar junkie
ps Lets have some virtue again
Janne Siren
> What do people think of the single-scale map Origin introduced in Ultima
> 6? Personally, I think it was a mistake. I _much_ preferred the original
Agreed. Ultima V had the feeling of huge wild wilderness, in Ultima VI
everything is just next door.
--
///------------------------------------------------------------\\\
/// Janne Siren / "Couldn't we just help each other \\\
\\\/// j...@krk.fi / Isn't there enough to share" - Mariah Carey \\\///
\XX/------------------------------------------------------------------\XX/
Sir Launcelot du Lake
The Codex of Ultimate Wisdom caught Aubrey Chen writing:
: 9) Make the final battle more interesting than the one in U7.
there *need not* be a final *battle*.. remember U3-U6? :-)
: 22) Don't make it a multi-CD game unless you really have to.
I'm sure they'll really have to :)
: 23) Make it multiplayer?
difficult... we can't have too many Avatars! :)
: 24) Make sure there is a way for us to kill Lord British.
what on earth for???!!!
Kevin Meehan
I've played all the Ultimas starting from U2, but I know for a fact
that I'd be willing to spend money to replay Ultimas 2 through 5 done up
with an U7 engine. It would be worth it, just to see what they come up
with for the KGB gards in U2.
"Nil desperandum" Kevin Meehan
Horace ke...@acy1.digex.net
Emmanuel GUYOT
I'd like too that the end of the game is something that is worth
ending the game. Not an end as U8 one in which you don't know what
happend, whether you succeed or not. It makes me feel like I spent
so much time with this game end I don't know how it ends... Not really
nice...
E.G.
Sir Launcelot du Lake
hark! a few more things I disagree with :)
: 3. Evil people should be evil.
: I want motivation. I want dead bodies and crying widows
: strewn in the wake of my enemy. I want lots of HATE and MISERY
: and ANGUISH to lay at the feet of my enemy.
: 4. Evil people should be evil during the game, too.
: I want to make good friends and useful allies only to have
: them kidnapped with taunting notes left behind. I want to see
: innocents taken away screaming. I want Blackthorn and the
: Shadowlords (U5) -- enemies who make my quest difficult on a
: personal, direct and regular basis. I want personal reasons to
: be upset with the enemy.
I'm surprised thou sayest this.... what made U5 and U7 the best Ultima
episodes IMHO is exactly the lack of a clear distinction between who was
really evil and who was good. This is crucial because it makes the
relationships between characters much more realistic and believable, and
this is what seperates a *superb* story from a mediocre one.
aye, there should be personal motivations to go on the quest, there
should be suffering et al, but not at the expense of a realistic potrayal
of human relationships and motivations. Was Blackthorn evil? Dost thou
knowest him? Then how dost thou judge him? :-) hast thou not learned
humility?
thou hast sworn to bring a thief to justice, but when thou dost catch
up with him, thou dost find him to be the father of a little girl who
needs him... remember this? :)
is he evil? would not this situation be more potent in drawing the player
into the world of Ultima? such is the potency of grey areas :)
--
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* Sir Launcelot du Lake Internet: swk...@leonis.nus.sg __ *
* Avatar & Knight of Britannia Bitnet: swk...@nusvm.bitnet / \ *
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* Who's the more foolish: the fool, * | _ _ | *
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Perry Lea
I've done as much as I can, so far, and I'm asking for help. These are the
things I need :
1) Key to Darkstone Tower
2) Stone for Dungeon in forest of living dead
3) Amulet for Northern Sphinx
4) Key for Dragon Tower
5) 6th Mirror
Now, because it's the only thing I haven't done, I'm going to explore the
clouds above and find and kill Xeen.
Any suggestions? Please write me in care of my boyfriend's e-mail or reply on
this board.
Thanks,
Dawn L. Wolfgram
--
Perry Lea CSD USER -> part no. A17998 - B
boot...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu SKU: R9 Revision: 4a.1 bbUa
DT 7777 Omaha release XXXXXXXXX
Sir Launcelot du Lake
The Codex of Ultimate Wisdom caught Daniel Starr writing:
excellent suggestions deleted
I agree with almost everything thou sayest, and I can see that, like me,
thou dost think highly of Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny :) but there are
a few things I would object to:
: 20. Remake Britannia with magic.
: I don't want to see the same old Britannia; I do want to
: see some form of Britannia; I don't want to see technology and
: the Industrial Revolution. Instead, let the writers come up with
aye, this I agree with - no pseudo-scientific nonsense, let's keep the
half-baked attempts to marry sci-fi and high fantasy out of it
: some nifty ideas for a Magical Revolution. Is there a flying
: carpet taxi service? Do the rich have roofs that vanish during
: sunshine but reappear in the rain? Do debutantes apply
: costume-enhancement potions before going to the ball? (Just
a Magical Revolution? er... mayhap, if it is done right.. I feel that
magic should remain shrouded in mystery, mysticism, and remain a little
foreboding. Thy examples are, IMHO, rather tacky :-} and gives an
atmosphere reminiscent of half-baked comedies like Leisure Suit Larry,
Eric the Unready etc. They were ok then as those game set out to be
half-baked comedies in the first place, but I shudder to think of U9
degenerating to that stage :)
: don't put in a blatant environmentalist message -- moral
: questions should be subtle.)
: 21. Lots of toys.
: One of the best parts of an RPG is playing with an
: environment -- that's what distinguishes it from a straight
: adventure in the first place. We want flying carpets, floating
: glow-bulbs, self-guided butterfly nets, magic tape recorders,
as above, I say nay to these examples... magic is supposed to be a very
potent, powerful force. Whilst it can be used for everyday, mundane things,
highlighting this use too much may then overshadow the sense of awesome,
fearsome power that is inherent in magic, which I feel should be brought
forth in all the Avatar's adventures.
: anything and everything. (Just as long as they're cheap to
: program.) Cool weapons are especially appreciated. And I second
: the posters who wanted to see Smith the talking horse and the
: moon-based moongates again.
Smith is a good way of injecting some comic relief into an otherwise
serious (and rightfully so) quest. Don't put too much comedy into it
apart from this. Aye, the moongates have that sense of awe and mystery
about them, they are reminiscent of England's mysterious Stonehenge -
that is how magic should be represented. Magic tape recorders just don't
convey this atmosphere :-}
--
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* Sir Launcelot du Lake Internet: swk...@leonis.nus.sg __ *
* Avatar & Knight of Britannia Bitnet: swk...@nusvm.bitnet / \ *
********************************************************** | () | *
* * |\_\ /_/| *
* A brave man dies but once * | _ _ | *
* A coward dies a thousand times * |/ | | \| *
* Either way, thou lose * | | *
* - Minax the Enchantress * /____\ *
************************************************************************
Chan Hoong Keong
> >>My name is Brian, and I am one of the many Ultima 9 team members. Right now, > >>U9 is in the early developemental stage, and we want to know what you, the > RPG
> >>fan, would like to see in the next Ultima.
>
> >Thanks for asking us. My suggestions would be:
>
> >1) Turn-based strategic combat.
>
> Please not totally; this is not a strategic game!
What respectable RPG game doesn't have turn-based combat?? I would
prefer turn-based anytime over EOB's "clicking on mouse
frantically while monsters pounding your party away in real time"
playing style.
--
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my