Thief - how good?
nobody
it? How much like a RPG is it? I was thinking it was more of a 3d shooter
with a bow instead of a gun- am I way off about that?
.
Simutron10
than your dexterity, and you have to think like a thief to win. If you think
like a space marine, you're toast.
It has some good RPG elements. There's a storyline, the setting is immersive,
there are multiple ways to solve many of the problems you encounter, and you
definitely feel like you're a thief in a medieval fantasy world. On the other
hand, there is no character development, stats or skills do not exist, and you
make no significant decisions about the character. You just complete missions,
buy equipment and keep repeat.
It probably feels like an RPG to me because Garret, the lead character, is
similar to a character I often play in real RPG's ;) He's a thief's thief, a
professional burglar who only resorts to more direct means when his back is
against a well-lit wall.
The best description I've heard of this game is that it is a "Medieval Thief
Simulator," including elements from FPS shooters, adventure games and RPG's.
It is most definitely a lot of fun, though, and quite a different experience
from any other FPS game I've seen.
-Mike B
John Hoffman
action game by far than an RPG. It is a simulation that lets you play a
thief and complete missions. The graphics are pretty good and the sound is
great.
John
nobody wrote in message ...
John Reynolds
definitions, as most Looking Glass games do. I think simulation is the
closest I can come up with off the top of my head.
John
Dan Bongard
: I keep seeing posts here about Thief, and I was wondering, how
: good is it? How much like a RPG is it?
It has no RPG-like elements, beyond being personally involving. :)
: I was thinking it was more of a 3d shooter with a bow instead
: of a gun- am I way off about that?
You are "way off" inasmuch as the game emphasizes planning and
sneaking, not shooting. Some missions you can do without harming
a soul. Hell, if you are patient enough you could probably do
ALL the missions without harming a soul, but sometimes it is just
easier to thump somebody over the head with a sword.
Really, 'Thief' is less of a 'shooter' than Ultima Underworld
and System Shock were. I'd have to agree with other posters that
Thief should be considered a 'simulation' -- a simulation with
an interesting setting and a plot, anyway. :)
-- Dan
Sean T Barrett
>Really, 'Thief' is less of a 'shooter' than Ultima Underworld
>and System Shock were. I'd have to agree with other posters that
>Thief should be considered a 'simulation' -- a simulation with
>an interesting setting and a plot, anyway. :)
I really think this is an unfair and way to categorize Thief,
which will only hurt it. The RPG group thinks it's not an RPG;
the action group things it's not an action game. Clearly it's
not a shooter, and clearly it lacks RPG elements that many
people think are important for considering a game a CRPG.
Calling it an 'action game' is still probably fair, insofar as almost
any hand-eye-coordination game is an 'action game'--but as you note
above, Ultima Underworld had just as much 'action'.
Anyhow, the problem with calling it a 'simulation' is that
that's essentially devoid of content. Ultima N is an 'avatar
simulator'; Baldur's Gate is a fantasy-combat-and-adventure
simlulation. Tetris is a 'falling block simulator'.
I think what people are trying to get at by using the
word 'simulation' is simply the idea that Thief is trying
to *immerse* the player into a situation where s/he *feels
like* a Thief. (This identification between player-and-avatar
is not inherent to 'simulation'--e.g. football simulators,
or any number of simulators where there's no 'avatar'.)
Thief is a game that tries to deliver to the player a fun
experience of what it would be like to be a D&D-style thief--
hiding in shadows, moving silently, backstabbing, etc.,
in the context of a larger narrative. For many members of
the team, they see this experience as much like the experience
had when playing pen-and-paper RPGs; however, it's clearly
lacking much relation to today's 'CRPG's (i.e. what I could
stereotypically refer to as "Stat Commander Hack'n'Slash").
"Simulation" is a really bad word to mean "role-play"; it's
unfortunate that CRPG's have coopted the phrase "role-play"
such that people are unwilling to apply it to games like Thief.
Perhaps a new term needs to be invented. We may have trouble
getting the pen-and-paper and live-action "role-players" to
switch to the new word, though.
Sean (ex-Thief team, opinions my own)
Olaf
and no real character development.
The game is top-nothc fun though. The atmosphere is, without a doubt, the
best ever created for a PC game. Everything in the game sets the mood for
the world the designers tried to create, from the mood music, to the
cutscenes, to your characters cynical comments, everything.
It is definitely NOT a 3D shooter. I mean, you kill people to be sure, but
the emphasis is on plot and gameplay. You are rewarded for doing things in
a thiefly manner (for example, if you hit somebody in the back with your
sword and they dont know you are there, they die.)
Great game, download the demo, and if you like it, get the game.
olaf
nobody wrote in message ...
>I keep seeing posts here about Thief, and I was wondering, how good is
>it? How much like a RPG is it? I was thinking it was more of a 3d shooter
>with a bow instead of a gun- am I way off about that?
>
>.
Mark Asher
>It's not a shooter, it's a... skulker? It relies a lot more on your ingenuity
>than your dexterity, and you have to think like a thief to win. If you think
>like a space marine, you're toast.
snip
>The best description I've heard of this game is that it is a "Medieval Thief
>Simulator," including elements from FPS shooters, adventure games and RPG's.
>It is most definitely a lot of fun, though, and quite a different experience
>from any other FPS game I've seen.
Good writeup. I've only played the demo, but it looks great. My only
complaint is that I had rather hoped for smaller missions in greater
quantity than 12 long ones.
I'd rather break into a house and work my way through 4 or 5 rooms and
leave than go into a house that is essentially a dungeon maze. But
beyond that, it seems very cool.
Mark Asher
Sneak
Simutron10 wrote:
> It's not a shooter, it's a... skulker? It relies a lot more on your ingenuity
> than your dexterity, and you have to think like a thief to win. If you think
> like a space marine, you're toast.
>
> It has some good RPG elements. There's a storyline, the setting is immersive,
> there are multiple ways to solve many of the problems you encounter, and you
> definitely feel like you're a thief in a medieval fantasy world. On the other
> hand, there is no character development, stats or skills do not exist, and you
> make no significant decisions about the character. You just complete missions,
> buy equipment and keep repeat.
>
> It probably feels like an RPG to me because Garret, the lead character, is
> similar to a character I often play in real RPG's ;) He's a thief's thief, a
> professional burglar who only resorts to more direct means when his back is
> against a well-lit wall.
>
> The best description I've heard of this game is that it is a "Medieval Thief
> Simulator," including elements from FPS shooters, adventure games and RPG's.
> It is most definitely a lot of fun, though, and quite a different experience
> from any other FPS game I've seen.
>
> -Mike B
This is the game that everyone that ever wanted to play a thief in other RPG's has
been waiting for! I just got through with the 4th mission and it is the best so
far! I like the fact that there are multiple ways to get in and out of each
"dungeon". I got into Ramirez's grounds by going under the wall in the river. I
went in upstairs and got lucky by picking the balcony of Ramirez's bedroom. Luckily
the alarm didn't go off when I went out into the hall and I worked the mansion from
top down. The hardest part was getting back to my neighborhood.
I've been playing at the Hard difficulty level but I try not to kill anyone. Do you
fail a mission if you play Extreme difficulty and have to kill someone?