what is the buggiest game that you ever played?!
freestone wilson
I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
I agree with one of the first resondents....."that there are the usual bugs and
then there are buggy games!
so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have played...any
system and any time?!
---not bugs caused by your computer, itself, but bugs that were inherient within
the game itself, no matter what system it ran on!
Too......there are bugs and then there are bugs!!
many of mine, especially in some dos games and some win games, i just go back to
desktop or the game hangs, but some games deliver bugs that bite real good!
-----in "chetchecuman"[spell!?], that "christian" software game where ya send
the enimies to be saved....i bought it at a bargin bin and soon, even with the
patch installed, there was a bug that looped my computer through every window
and even tried to access the internet, ala, explorer: i was afeared that every
file i had would be corrupted! fortunately not!
----i read about the infamious "myth soulblighter bug" where at the uninstall,
the hard drive would be reformatted!! they recalled the game immediately, [good
for them: there ARE a few software companies that Care!!].
HOWEVER!!.......at EB, a few months ago, i noted a $9.99 myth without the red
sticker on the box....a unrecalled version!!
the clerk pitched it into the trash can, horrified! [ i realized later, that
maybe the janitor could have spied it and taken it home...ugh!]
i see, now, at Best Buy, a jewelcase version of myth without the red sticker for
$9.99----IS it Patched?!
what i am saying, here, is that maybe even with the attention of the software
company, some copies of the uncorrected Myth may still be out there!
----I read that ANY verion of DARKLANDS earlier than version 7 will overwrite
critical system files on some systems...one of those old very very buggy dos
games.
then there are the games that run TECHNICALLY OK....but there are bugs where the
game itself is ruined! the "temple is not there", or in, like of Hexxen II,
where if some action is done before another action, the game can not continue!
or maybe that bag in one's inventory "loses" some "axe of goodness' where that
axe is needed on level 6 to complete a critical mission/quest!
....freestone
freestone wilson
----AND THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YA LAUGH
Paula Reaume
Paula
"freestone wilson" <freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:jWCB6.5228$FY5.3...@www.newsranger.com...
SirKel
SirKel
"Paula Reaume" <prea...@spamciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:98716826...@arakis.wincom.net...
Hong Ooi
<freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote:
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
>I agree with one of the first resondents....."that there are the usual bugs and
>then there are buggy games!
MOM is, so far, the only game I've played that screwed my hard disk so
completely as to require a reformat. Nothing else really compares....
--
Hong Ooi | "I used to use my real name many years ago. I
hong...@maths.anu.edu.au | got just as much disrespect then as I do now."
http://www.zip.com.au/~hong | -- T.
Sydney, Australia |
Eric VanHeest
> so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have played...any
> system and any time?!
I dunno; would a single showstopper bug be "buggier" than a hundred
rather insignificant bugs? Or a thousand spelling errors?
freestone wilson
-0400
>
>Simple two tie for top spot Daggerfall and Ultima 9.
>Paula
>"freestone wilson" <freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
>news:jWCB6.5228$FY5.3...@www.newsranger.com...
>> hello everyone.
>>
>> I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>> PLAYED?",
ah yes.....DAGGERFALL!
BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT!
yes i loved the game, i even patched and patched and then some. got to the very
very end and had to quit as the end quest had me in that other-demensional space
where i had to fly around that space to rooms, to eventually open the top of the
big pyrimid. there were two doors to open, in that pyrimid but i only could get
the first door to open! even the two walkthroughs did not help me at all.
end of my game: wonderfull while it lasted, though! musta been something I Did
Not Do, back in the game, or else a BUG!
I would tend to agree with Ultima 9 too, but i READ that someone with a pentium
266 got it to run SMOOTHLY!
SMOOTHY, he wrote.....
---he musta applied patches like of tiling a floor! someday it will appear in
the bargin bins and i really oughta try it!
freestone
freestone wilson
>Paula
>"freestone wilson" <freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
>news:jWCB6.5228$FY5.3...@www.newsranger.com...
>> hello everyone.
>>
>> I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>> PLAYED?",
ah yes.....DAGGERFALL!
BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT!
yes i loved the game, i even patched and patched and then some. got to the very
very end and had to quit as the end quest had me in that other-demensional space
where i had to fly around that space to rooms, to eventually open the top of the
big pyrimid. there were two doors to open, in that pyrimid but i only could get
the first door to open! even the two walkthroughs did not help me at all.
end of my game: wonderfull while it lasted, though! musta been something I Did
Not Do, back in the game, or else a BUG!
I would tend to agree with Ultima 9 too, but i READ that someone with a pentium
266 got it to run SMOOTHLY!
SMOOTHY, he wrote.....
---he musta applied patches like of tiling a floor! someday it will appear in
the bargin bins and i really oughta try it!
freestone
freestone
freestone wilson
freestone wilson
(UTC)
for me, perhaps, it would be just how the bugs detract from my Experience of the
game! bugs of clipping of polygons or bugs of
tectures and sticking to walls......they are just annoying.
but: if i am jerked back to "this world" via constant interruptions of the game
program throwing my system back to desktop, my immersiveness is ruined! tis
jolting. for me, to enter, say, a door into a house only to suddenly see my
desktop!!
THIS ruins the game more for me than the other type of bugs where i go partways
through a game only to be stopped by a program bug that stops me from going
further in the game, like of a bug where a mainline quest can not go on because
i did or did not do something way way back in the game and i am not permitted to
return!
i liked the might and magic 5 ond 6, in this regard, as these two games had a
"seerer" on a mountaintop that will replace any quest items that are
"lost"....either accidently tossed out or bug-corrupted!!
[ i always end up fearing to throw away anything in my inventory even when i run
out of room: oh the FEAR of throwing out the "scroll of blessing" only to find
that Count Vicar needs to actually READ it on level ten and i can not go back,
and maybe WORSE... i CAN go back but where oh where oh where did i pitch this
scroll?
---in some nameless dungeon passege on level three where spegitti-on-a-plate
looks neater than this mess of passeges!
---or did i drop it back in level six, where ALL the monsters regenerate?!
---or did i drop it into the lake of fire on level four: unrecoverable.
I am playing ULTIMA UNDERWORLD now......I am discovering that there are Needs
for seemingly innocent items, at the deeper levels, and i can not carry much
weight, so i have to pick and choose very very carefully. i end up stashing
everywhere, fortunately, only the meat spoils. i find that the "troll" needs
ten gems and the oother troll needs ten fish, on level 6....I may end up
pitching all of my armor as these keys, jewels, dead fish, plants.....are
needed...OR i FEAR they will be needed, further onwards!!]
I got to the Very end of Daggerfall and was stopped by an apparent bug where a
door just would not open!
but, hey, this games was, and is, one of my favorite games: the immersiveness of
the game, while it lasted, was so wonderfull!
of course there are the bugs that git ya even before you play: installation
bugs! may never play. or if you DO really really want to play,
you gotta reinstall directX6, from your now currant directx7. AND back reinstall
your old vid drivers!
never get off of first base: i let the tech people try to play that kind of show
stopping bug game!
same with the just one bug that corrupts my hard drive JUST ONCE!
or that Chechemen game that gave just one bug, a bug so "scary" that i did
quickly REMOVE this game from my hard drive, afraid to ever to try to play it
again! a bug where my computer went into a LOOP endless, of programs opening
willy-nilly, and desktop windows appearing appearing, then disappearing: Demons
controling my computer!
Han
Ultima Online. Come on folks, that one was out of control!
--
-Han
Edward Cowling 'Games - Addict'
<freeston...@newsranger.com> writes
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
Daggerfall was one of the worst because it ate your save games.
Outcast & Nomad Soul just won't install, let alone run.
Ultima IX Had lots of annoying bugs in it.
Hidden & Dangerous falls over in the most exciting bits.
But top of the list has to be Dungeon Keeper II, which was virtually
unplayable out of the box, and each of the patches seemed to add more
problems. In the end I gave up and chucked it.
--
Edward Cowling 'Games - Addict'
-=Matt=-
I got Daggerfall ages before I got the internet so I thought I was the only
one with problems with this shit game! As soon as I first played it bugs
became apparent, it would crash, glitch, screw up savegames you name it, -I
found it heartbreaking because it was a birthday present and I just ended up
really hating to play it. Which was a shame because when it worked I really
quite enjoyed it. Well, apart from the f-ing huge dungeons where all you had
to do was find a piece of paper or something. It could have been good but
each patch added more problems and I lost patience after a while too.
Ultima 9 was buggy obviously but at least with the latest patch it runs
perfectly. Well, there are still bugs and its not exactly an amazing game
but it's smooth on my PIII500 TNT2 and the bugs that are still there
actually add to the enjoyment believe it or not. I like it when bodies of
people you just killed start spinning or slide across the floor pinball
style. LOL!!!!!
Ultima 7 was bugged as hell when it first came out, but after a patch it
became IMHO the best rpg ever (behind part 2 though)!
--
-=Matt=-
-------------------------------------------------------------
{AGUT}-=Matt=-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Jed1kn1ght:
-=Matt=-s Portrait and Star Wars Page
www.jed1kn1ght.fsnet.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Paula Reaume" <prea...@spamciaccess.com> wrote in message
news:98716826...@arakis.wincom.net...
Kevin
Hong Ooi wrote:
I without a doubt absolutely refute that if when you say MOM you are referring to
master of magic that it casued you to have to reformat. Most likely it was the virus
you were running at the same time.
MOM is probably one of the most played games that is 5+ years old. Most the people
that write in the newsgroup have probably played it at least a bit. Now most
definatly MOM has some show-stopping bugs in the game. Even with the last patch they
made for it, later in the game there were certain things that would automatically
crash it. But never heard of it ever being responsible for any sort of file
corruptions
On a side note, I'd have to say for a game I loved and finished Ultima Underworld 1,
was the buggiest game ever. I remember having to run and turn backwards and jump
into some of the staircases to stop it from crashing, and all sorts of other wierd
'things'. I've played a few games that had more bugs in them, and some with worse.
But never have I actually finished another game with as many bugs as that one had.
portia_EH
Some of the obvious bugs included:
- save games occassionally corrupted without warning
- some quests were actually incompletable (monsters in locations that
required a 'noclipping' cheat to reach)
- often you'd fall through the polygonal floor and into the 'void', which
meant you either had feathfall on to save you from the drop and could cast
'teleport' to return to a safe position ... or you died in a red screen
splatter.
- some higher quests (at least at the knight's guild in the desert-scape
main town) had missing dialogue keys. The text would read, "We need you to
get the [blank] from the Caves of Daggoroth and return it to us."
- ... many, many others.
But here's the kicker! The one that REALLY takes the cake.
I really liked the desert-scaped country (of which, I forget it's name ...
started with an 'S' I believe) and did lots and lots of quests there to
further my rank in the magic and knight guilds. A quest I was sent on by
the mage's guild wanted me to fetch an item from said person, and deliver it
to another. When I got to the town that supposedly had the person I was
looking for (to pickup the item), I talked to people in the town and they
marked the location on the map. When I went to the location on the map,
however, there was no accessibly building where the name was pointing to.
So I pick the closest one, and viola! A giant red demon monster is standing
in the middle of this single-room building ... I thought this was odd
because there hadn't been any npc's I could talk to that looked even
remotely like this before, so I talk to him, hoping it was the person picked
up my quest item from -- since obviously the person didn't exist where the
townspeople though he did.
When the character portrait came up for the red-demon-man in the
conversation screen, there was a giant placeholder 'gray' slate image that
had scribbled on it in slopply cursive mouse writing, "Call Stan Now!" ...
Like it was really bad programmer art that accidentally stayed in the game.
Needless to say, the red-demon-man knew nothing about the item I was
supposed to pickup for the quest, so I was forced to reload the game prior
to accepting the quest in the first place -- since the man I was searching
for didn't really exist.
Daggerfall is the greatest rpg of all time. And the buggiest game I've ever
played.
--
=================================================
"When virtue sleeps, [x] awakes refreshed!" -FN
-EH (remove "no2spam~" for reply address)
Ykalon Dragon
>
> Simple two tie for top spot Daggerfall and Ultima 9.
> Paula
Tied for second place maybe because no game can be buggier than BC 3000.
Gabriele Neukam
world in this way:
>---not bugs caused by your computer, itself, but bugs that were inherient within
>the game itself, no matter what system it ran on!
About ten years ago, we acquired a game, written for the Amiga and
ported to the PC - my, this was _really_ buggy.
The vendor was Thalion, and we contacted them for some real
plot-stoppers within Dragonflight (this was the name of this game),
which made some certain multipart device useless (the Eltam staff).
You couldn't assemble it, as the icons to denote the identity of the
four parts were merely invisible.
But after this was fixed, we detected another bug, even more a plot
stopper. The dungeons weren't always fully walkable, but had some
one-way passages like falling through the floor, or being teleported
in, and there's not teleport going out.
This wouldn't be the problem, as my party could obtain and learn the
teleport spell - but when opening the spell window, i could only
scroll until spell number fifteen, making all further spells
unreachable!
Guess what number the teleport spell had - it was Number 17. And it
was never fixed, as soon afterwards the company stopped working and
was dissolved.
--
"Mom, there is a spider in the bathroom!"
"Are you sure?" - "Yes!"
"How many legs has it got?"
"I can't tell - but they are all dangling from a thread!" (c): RL
chainbreaker
> Paula
Yep, no doubt these two deserve to be at the top of the list. Damn shame
about Daggerfall, because I kept trying to play that one way longer than I
should have. There was a good game there if it'd ever worked properly.
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Descent to Undermountain. I never
played it because the reports scared me away from it. Hmm, maybe that's why
it's not being mentioned--everyone else was scared away, too. :-)
Jerry Morelock
Mark Morrison
I bought DtU and got stuck half way through. There was a certain
point, after talking to a NPC, where the game would lock up, despite
patching.
Pity. I liked it - it played like a cross between Doom and Eye of the
Beholder.
John Marwick
"freestone wilson" <freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:jWCB6.5228$FY5.3...@www.newsranger.com...
Sandra Linkletter
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
>I agree with one of the first resondents....."that there are the usual bugs and
>then there are buggy games!
>
>so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have played...any
>system and any time?!
>---not bugs caused by your computer, itself, but bugs that were inherient within
>the game itself, no matter what system it ran on!
RPG: Descent to Undermountain
I liked it, but I could only play it through once (as a warrior)
before the bugs got to me too much. It was unplayable as a mage.
STRATEGY: Birthright
I've played it off and on for years because my husband and I both like
it, but the bugs in the endgame still make me furious every time.
Most of the bugs I have encountered in the games that I play are
apparently due to poor list handling. In all honesty I'm not sure
what I would do if I had to program lists in games, but surely people
who write games for a living should have figured something out by now.
Note that I'm not counting games that are highly hardware dependant
and games that show evidence of poor design as "buggy", although those
deficiences are both called "bugs" by many users.
Sandra Linkletter
Slink's Burrow Online
http://www.drislink.com/slink/index.htm
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Eric VanHeest
> I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Descent to Undermountain. I never
> played it because the reports scared me away from it. Hmm, maybe that's why
> it's not being mentioned--everyone else was scared away, too. :-)
One of the "Magic 8-Ball" responses in Fallout 2 was "Yes, we know
Descent to Undermountain was crap." :)
Adam
'nuf said
"freestone wilson" <freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:jWCB6.5228$FY5.3...@www.newsranger.com...
portia_EH
news:cv2fdtcf5j9c42u45...@4ax.com...
<snickety snak!>
> Most of the bugs I have encountered in the games that I play are
> apparently due to poor list handling. In all honesty I'm not sure
> what I would do if I had to program lists in games, but surely people
> who write games for a living should have figured something out by now.
>
I'm not sure if I follow you here -- could you explain what 'list handling'
is? Maybe even provide an example to represent a bug that it was
responsible for. I ask because honestly, I do believe you're talking out of
your ass. :)
troy wickard
Grifman
<troy@*nospam*src-tech.com> wrote:
>Not a RPG but OUTPOST really really sucked.
>
Yeah, but it wasn't really buggy - it was just poorly designed, and
there were many promised features that were never implemented. I
still laugh when I remember the back of the manual promising future
expansion packs of new planets. What potential and what wasted. The
only game I actually wrote a letter to a game company about - at least
Sierra refunded my money upon request.
Grifman
k a
MOM warez with a virus payload in the executable.
GSV Three Minds in a Can
person freestone wilson <freeston...@newsranger.com> said
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
>I agree with one of the first resondents....."that there are the usual bugs and
>then there are buggy games!
>
>so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have played...any
>system and any time?!
Daggerfall, by miles. And that is =after= they had patched it.
Fallout2 is fairly poor too (I was playing the mutilated UK version).
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
chainbreaker
> >
>
>
> Yeah, but it wasn't really buggy - it was just poorly designed, and
> there were many promised features that were never implemented. I
> still laugh when I remember the back of the manual promising future
> expansion packs of new planets. What potential and what wasted. The
> only game I actually wrote a letter to a game company about - at least
> Sierra refunded my money upon request.
>
> Grifman
>
Outpost was pretty bad, no doubt, but I didn't bother to send it back to
Sierra--I just returned it to the local EB.
The only one I ever mailed back to Sierra was Phantasmagoria--not because it
was buggy, but just because it was-so-damned-bad! If it'd been marketed as
a comedy, though, I might just have kept it . . . nah!
Jerry Morelock
Gabriele Neukam
<no2spam~ehou...@zipperint.com> decided to change the shape of the
world in this way:
>I'm not sure if I follow you here -- could you explain what 'list handling'
>is? Maybe even provide an example to represent a bug that it was
>responsible for.
Did you hear of the Lich jar bug of Might and Magic 7? Woe, if you
delivered the _Soul_ Jars _before_ you take on obtaining the _Lich_
jars.
Problem: It is a good deal easier to get the soul jars than the lichs
jars, which require a really hard fight.
Paula Reaume
certain point of bugginess (?sp) it just doesn't matter. For example the 2 I
mention, DF out of the box it constantly crashed, some quests were unable to
be completed, falling into the 'void and the biggest problem it was
impossible to finish the game until several patches later. Ultima 9, memory
leak, system requirements were a joke (system out now are just starting to
be able to handle it proper), crashing just for the heck of it and show
stopping bugs. I actual enjoyed the both games after they were patched but
they drove me nuts before that, especially U9 (I bought it the day it came
out so I kept trying to get it to run right before I realized it wasn't my
machine and that it was the game).
Paula
"Michael J. Solomon" <mike...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:f1lfdt8e5lni362ke...@4ax.com...
> I am pretty sure that the original release of BattleCruiser 3K was the
> buggiest game ever released. Ever.
chainbreaker
> You could be right I never played it. But you know I think once you get to
a
> certain point of bugginess (?sp) it just doesn't matter. For example the 2
I
> mention, DF out of the box it constantly crashed, some quests were unable
to
> be completed, falling into the 'void and the biggest problem it was
> impossible to finish the game until several patches later.
I wasn't aware that Daggerfall was *ever* patched to a truly playable
condition. I stayed with it through several patches--falling into the void
could still happen at almost any time.
Jerry Morelock
Paula Reaume
fall through the void but then that's what saved games are for.
Paula
"chainbreaker" <chainb...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9baoa...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Markku Herd
Paula Reaume kirjoitti viestissä <98729745...@arakis.wincom.net>...
>I found Daggerfall to be playable after the last patch. Yes you still could
>fall through the void but then that's what saved games are for.
Or pressing Alt+F11 (IIRC), which takes you one step back. You can
use it for backtracking out of the dungeon, too, after you've found
what you came for.
Wonderful game. (Honest!)
- MJH
Eric VanHeest
>>I'm not sure if I follow you here -- could you explain what 'list handling'
>>is? Maybe even provide an example to represent a bug that it was
>>responsible for.
> Did you hear of the Lich jar bug of Might and Magic 7? Woe, if you
> delivered the _Soul_ Jars _before_ you take on obtaining the _Lich_
> jars.
I'm trying, but not successfully, to understand how this is an explanation
for what "list handling" is.
Hong Ooi
>
>
>Hong Ooi wrote:
>
>> MOM is, so far, the only game I've played that screwed my hard disk so
>> completely as to require a reformat. Nothing else really compares....
>
>I without a doubt absolutely refute that if when you say MOM you are referring to
>master of magic that it casued you to have to reformat. Most likely it was the virus
>you were running at the same time.
Well, admittedly the fact that I ignored the bit in the readme about
turning off your disk cache first might have something to do with it.
Slash
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
[snippy snip]
If we're talking about initial releases...
Grand Prize: Frontier Elite 3 - First Encounters. End of story. :)
1st Prize: Daggerfall
2nd Prize: Battlecruiser AD 3000 (the proper way of writing it! ;)
3rd Prize: Ultima 9
4th Prize: Fallout 2
5th Prize: Privateer 2
If we're talking total number of tweaks and bugfixes in total, despite
general non-bugginess...
Well, it's a multi-way tie between games such as Quake, Q2, Q3,
EverQuest, ad nauseum.
-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious" - The Onion
Sandra Linkletter
<freeston...@newsranger.com> wrote:
>hello everyone.
>
>I Intended to ask you all...."WHAT IS THE BUGGIEST GAME THAT YOU HAVE EVER
>PLAYED?", but i came across the thread about interplay and their "buggy" games!
>I agree with one of the first resondents....."that there are the usual bugs and
>then there are buggy games!
>
>so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have played...any
>system and any time?!
>---not bugs caused by your computer, itself, but bugs that were inherient within
>the game itself, no matter what system it ran on!
RPG: Descent to Undermountain
I liked it, but I could only play it through once (as a warrior)
before the bugs got to me too much. It was unplayable as a mage.
STRATEGY: Birthright
I've played it off and on for years because my husband and I both like
it, but the bugs in the endgame still make me furious every time.
Most of the bugs I have encountered in the games that I play are
apparently due to poor list handling. In all honesty I'm not sure
what I would do if I had to program lists in games, but surely people
who write games for a living should have figured something out by now.
Note that I'm not counting games that are highly hardware dependant
chainbreaker
"Draconian Dragon" <lordm...@dracon.com> wrote in message
news:is4jdtg492njcct3l...@4ax.com...
> I agree about Daggerfall but had no probz with Ultima 9
>
People running Glide-capable cards didn't have nearly the problems with U9
as those without. Those without Glide had the technical problems to contend
with, plus a poorly-done mishmash of a game that was "Ultima" in name only.
U9 was probably much better received by newcomers to the series running
Glide machines than most others--at least that's part of my explanation for
the wide spread of opinion concerning it. The patches and faster machines
available since its release at least make it playable now in D3D, which was
not the case to begin. I was able to experience both worlds since I was
running a TNT2 machine with SLI Voodoo 2's at the time. U9 was unplayable
on the TNT2. Frame rates weren't a whole lot better with the V2's but at
least it didn't crash so much.
Jerry Morelock
Knight37
about:
>so i wonder....just what IS the buggiest game that you all have
>played...any system and any time?!
Descent to Undermountain
Daggerfall is another contender.
--
Knight37
"You can never underestimate the intelligence of
the American public." -- P.T. Barnum
portia_EH
circular linked-list explanation; and then a horribly constructed tie-in as
to how the player would know that the programmer's list handling was at
fault for the bugs they see.
--
=================================================
"When virtue sleeps, [x] awakes refreshed!" -FN
-EH (remove "no2spam~" for reply address)
Eric VanHeest <e...@og1.olagrande.net> wrote in message
news:9bb8cl$6oq$3...@og1.olagrande.net...
Knight37
>Amen to that, VanHeest. I was hoping more for a single, double, and
>circular linked-list explanation; and then a horribly constructed tie-in
>as to how the player would know that the programmer's list handling was
>at fault for the bugs they see.
The person who responded with the jars bug is not the same person who made
the list comment.
>=================================================
>"When virtue sleeps, [x] awakes refreshed!" -FN
>
> -EH (remove "no2spam~" for reply address)
>
>
>Eric VanHeest <e...@og1.olagrande.net> wrote in message
>news:9bb8cl$6oq$3...@og1.olagrande.net...
>> Gabriele Neukam <Gabriel...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> >>I'm not sure if I follow you here -- could you explain what 'list
>handling'
>> >>is? Maybe even provide an example to represent a bug that it was
>> >>responsible for.
>>
>> > Did you hear of the Lich jar bug of Might and Magic 7? Woe, if you
>> > delivered the _Soul_ Jars _before_ you take on obtaining the _Lich_
>> > jars.
>>
>> I'm trying, but not successfully, to understand how this is an
>> explanation for what "list handling" is.
--
Knight37
"Usenet is the place where the world's gamers come
to fart after consuming their games."
-- Polonius on csipg.rpg
Eric VanHeest
> The person who responded with the jars bug is not the same person who made
> the list comment.
No, but they responded directly to the query, "Could you explain what
'list handling' is?" with something that wasn't exactly an answer. It
might have been an example of a bug involving list handling, but why
that kind of a bug would involve lists is not obvious.
portia_EH
news:Xns908590DA3knig...@209.155.56.81...
> The person who responded with the jars bug is not the same person who made
> the list comment.
>
You are correct, sir!
But, it was indeed a reply to the message requested 'list bug' examples.
That in itself is reason enough to consider it a 'response' to the post.
And he seemed to give a bug example, no?
--
Led Mirage
<chainb...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>Yep, no doubt these two deserve to be at the top of the list. Damn shame
>about Daggerfall, because I kept trying to play that one way longer than I
>should have. There was a good game there if it'd ever worked properly.
Ugh. That game really was boring as hell. Nothing ever changes
regardless of what you do. And then there are the random quests that
are just awful. Yeah, I joined that dragon order or what have you and
those lameasses couldn't even get rid of a bear that somehow gotten
into their base. Like, say what? That's when I decided to give it a
erase treatment. That and the void, and the spaghetti dungeons. It's
just a shit game. Looks good on the outside, but all shit on the
inside.
Led Mirage
<chainb...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>I wasn't aware that Daggerfall was *ever* patched to a truly playable
>condition. I stayed with it through several patches--falling into the void
>could still happen at almost any time.
The void thing was never fixed and Pathesda said it would never be
fixed several patches in. It's obvious there was a major problem with
the engine's collision detection routine. So I guess they couldn't fix
that problem without a complete overhaul of the engine.
Knight37
>Knight37 <knig...@gamespotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns908590DA3knig...@209.155.56.81...
>
>> The person who responded with the jars bug is not the same person who
>> made the list comment.
>>
>
>You are correct, sir!
>
>But, it was indeed a reply to the message requested 'list bug' examples.
>That in itself is reason enough to consider it a 'response' to the post.
>And he seemed to give a bug example, no?
It might be an example of a bug, but it's not an explanation of what the
hell the original poster meant by "lists" (which I assume is some reference
to screwed up linked lists or something; it was too vague to follow what
they really meant). So basically.... we're still waiting.
--
Knight37
"Dear Mother! Dear Father!
Time has frozen still what's left to be!
Hear nothing! Say nothing!
Cannot face the fact I think for me!
No guarantee, it's life 'as is',
But damn you for not giving me my chance!"
-- Metallica "Dyers Eve"
FlashFlood
> Did you hear of the Lich jar bug of Might and Magic 7? Woe, if you
> delivered the _Soul_ Jars _before_ you take on obtaining the _Lich_
> jars.
Perhaps they are referring to a 'list' of certain quest objects.
Programmers usually start creating rooms, then populate them with
manipulative objects. They give these objects names, and put them in a
list.
This bug in MM7 for example (above) maybe he's referring to a list bug
where normal objects like "jars" are given qualitative names like "soul"
jars or "lich" jars. Two different jars, but due to some list bug where
both objects have conflicting names, delivering the "soul" jars before
the "lich" jars, the quest is then broken.
All this because the programmer couldn't code a proper list code or list
creater.
Just 'perhaps,' I'm not too sure this is what they mean. I just remember
playing some old-school adventure games where each room had a textfile
associated to it, containing all the objects you could manipulate. (it
was a great way to cheat.)
--
FlashFlood
Joke:
When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet, and when toast is
dropped, it always lands with the buttered side facing down. I propose
to strap buttered toast to the back of a cat; the two will hover,
spinning inches above the ground. With a giant buttered cat array, a
high-speed monorail could easily link New York with Chicago.
David Sibley
http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/krondor/stackbug.html
for details. It's a bug in Betrayal at Krondor that allows you to
duplicate stackable items using a buggy property of certain kinds of
containers. Contents of containers are implemented in the code as
lists, of course. It's very clear (to a programmer) that the bug
involved is the mishandling of inserting an item in a list (container)
under very specific conditions.
Inventory and container bugs of this sort used to be very common in
CRPGs. All such bugs are mishandling of lists one way or another.
The above is just one that's nicely documented on the Web. Most of
the others I know of got fixed in patches (so you don't find them
documented) but this particular bug wasn't discovered until years
after the game was published, long after anyone cared about patching
it.
Whether similar list problems exist in more modern games in less
obvious forms, I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised.
Programmers didn't suddenly get a lot smarter.
(I think I remember vaguely that there was a container bug of some
sort patched in BG2. Something having to do with gem bags maybe? I
don't remember the details, nor am I sure the readme with the patch
gave many details.)
portia_EH
news:3ADE8391...@videotron.ca...
> Perhaps they are referring to a 'list' of certain quest objects.
> Programmers usually start creating rooms, then populate them with
> manipulative objects. They give these objects names, and put them in a
> list.
>
Nice description. :)
As a side note, the programmers probably had very little to do with setting
up the text file that contained item descriptions. I'd lean towards blaming
the designers (level or game), and/or the artists that helped create the
source file.
And if that's the case, then the 'list' filled text file you're refering to
might indeed be responsible.
Then again, this is all under the assumption that NWC has a fully able
bodied group of programmers that develop the engine and supporting tools;
and don't actually sidestep into game design during the coding process.
Kudos to you, FlashFlood -- but, mind you ... I do beleive you're answering
a question that has no real answer. None of us (outside of NWC) have
knowledge of the full scope of MM7, it's creation, or the tools behind its
development.
portia_EH
news:3adedc9a...@news.cac.psu.edu...
> Here's an example of a bug that's very obviously a list problem. See
>
> http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/krondor/stackbug.html
>
Nice one! :)
Although as a minor retort ... although they call it a 'stack' bug, and a
stack is indeed close to a 'list' (but not quite, as it's continguous in
memory and requires different maintenance to remove/add from the data
structure), the stack that the website refers to doesn't sound even remotely
like a data structure ...
Instead, it sounds like some joe-schmoe just decided 'StackBug' would be a
good name because itemA is stacked onto itemB and the incorrect count of
items manifests itself. (see the referring website in Daveid Sibley's
post). Appearantly, the player's action of 'stacking' their equipment is
the reason the name 'stackbug' even occurs.
Best effort I've seen to try to explain something that no one has an answer
for. :)
Gabriele Neukam
had the will and imagination to describe the world as such:
>Inventory and container bugs of this sort used to be very common in
>CRPGs. All such bugs are mishandling of lists one way or another.
Hmm, there's something like this in Ultima7 (floppy edition?)
where keys were prone to disappearing from the backpack while sleeping
at night. The solution was to take them out and spread them on the
ground, and collect them in the morning.
And the castle is so full of items, if you bring in even more of them,
parts of the wall and roof tiles might disappear (the objects are all
tiles placed on the ground or a planar level above or below, and some
calculation of higher/before and lower/behind was made to make objects
lie on top of each other or vanish beneath something else).
This looks like it is a problem of objet list handling, but no one can
tell it for sure, as the source code is lost, and there are people
trying to re-construct the game, but still are stuck in certain
places.
Gabriele Neukam
--
"Mom, there is a spider in the bathroom!"
"Are you sure?" - "Yes!"
"How many legs has it got?"
"I can't tell - but they are all dangling from a thread!" (C): RL
David Sibley
>Nice one! :)
Here's another one. No documentation, though. And I expect it got
patched, so you probably won't find it in a modern version.
Eye of the Beholder. IIRC, if your inventory was full and you removed
any item but the last one, the last inventory item would be
duplicated (and your inventory remained full). This is pretty
obviously a static list problem. When an item is removed the items
following it have to be shifted up to cover the resulting blank space.
But someone forgot to null out the duplicated last entry that the
shifting causes when the list is full.
This bug used to be pretty common. I don't know why I remember it
specifically from EoB. That's not even the first place I saw it.
Knight37
Sweet. Now that's a bug I don't mind in a game. :)
--
Knight37
"When a man with a pistol meets a man with a rifle, the man with the pistol
is a dead man."
-- Ramone Rojo, "A Fist Full of Dollars"
Jarno Kaarinen
>>Eye of the Beholder. IIRC, if your inventory was full and you removed
>>any item but the last one, the last inventory item would be
>>duplicated (and your inventory remained full). This is pretty
>
>Sweet. Now that's a bug I don't mind in a game. :)
I think both Final Fantasy 3 and Final Fantasy 7 (both PSX and PC
version) had a bug which let you duplicate many of the items. You
could easily have e.g. 99 MegaElixirs which would heal your whole
party to full health.
The Fifth Llama
during the install program has to be #1 in the piece of shit category.
"Jarno Kaarinen" <ja...@remotel.com> wrote in message
news:L6rhOvznSuiM7e...@131.228.6.99...
Anonymous
Apple 2....
As a member of any guild, you could only know x spells at a time. If you
asked to be taught another spell from the guild, you needed to "unlearn" a
different one. Unfortunately, if you "unlearned" a spell that was currently
cast and active (say "raise strength") the game would forget to turn off the
spell when its duration was up. By repeating the cycle -- learn spell, cast
spell, unlearn spell, you could raise any statistic or protection to the
maximum of 255. :D
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