Darklands - Next generation?
The Court Jester
people's opinions on a sequel. I remember, in the designer's notes, that
they had planned multiple games (hence the saints from Norway), yet these
have not, and apparently will never materialize. Personally, I think
this is a tragedy. For all of Darkland's bug patches, I loved the game.
It incorporated more useful RPG systems than I care to count, as well as
having a generally intuitive interface. Of course, there was the
extensive documentation and reserch, as well. Every few months, I'll
play the game again, that's how fanatical I am. I am sadden by the trend
towards more action oriented RPGs, that concentrate more on killing more
beasties from level to level. I want -more- open plotlines. This last
time, I discovered a subplot in the game that I had never seen before,
involving pamphleting a town. Microprose seems to be abandoning a
classic RPG.
Brendan Power
fo...@io.com
Dave Tawatao
> Brendan Power
> fo...@io.com
I agree with you wholeheartedly Brendan. With a lot of the game
companies moving towards the CD-ROM medium, MicroProse could update the
Darklands engine to include more artwork, menu choices, and land area.
Anyway, for the past couple of years, players have been beggin them to
release a sequel. Unfortunately, the responses have always ranged from
"I'll forward your request" to "Sorry, no sequel has been planned."
Anyway, let me know other sub-plots you find. Thanks in advance.
FUDE...@husc.harvard.edu
>From: a...@u.washington.edu (Dave Tawatao)
>Subject: Re: Darklands - Next generation?
>Date: 6 Dec 1994 05:30:42 GMT
>fo...@pentagon.io.com (The Court Jester) writes:
>>I just want to bring up a favorite game of mine, Darklands, and get
>>people's opinions on a sequel. I remember, in the designer's notes, that
>>they had planned multiple games (hence the saints from Norway), yet these
>>have not, and apparently will never materialize. Personally, I think
>>this is a tragedy. For all of Darkland's bug patches, I loved the game.
>>
>> Brendan Power
>> fo...@io.com
>I agree with you wholeheartedly Brendan.
I agree too. I particularly liked the character generation system, which
was almost a game in itself.
It's much more fun plotting a "childhood" for the
characters than rolling die and then trading off attributes.
Also, the combat map was just as good as anything else I'd seen.
Finally, it was nice to have a different game world- I like Tolkien as much
as anyone but there are other mythologies available.
Piemax
Gilbert L. Brahms
: I just want to bring up a favorite game of mine, Darklands, and get
: Brendan Power
: fo...@io.com
I was rather fond of Darklands myself, for quite awhile, at least, but
eventually I became tired of choosing selections from a text menu. I
don't know whether you ever read Computer Gaming World, but their RPG
reviewer, Scorpia, gave it the worst rating I have ever seen her give a
game, saying it had
redeeming features. Her opinion carries much weight; moreover, Darklands
never received very high ratings in the magazine's poll. I suspect
Microprose was very sensitive to this. If memory should serve me well, I
do not believe MicroProse had hitherto published any RPG, and I think
they were scared off. I am sure you know that their concentration had
been (and still very much is) on military simulations and on strategy
games. So unless you should be able to release a groundswell of
eagerness for a sequel, I do not believe that further Darklands lie in
the future.
--
-- Gilbert L. Brahms
SI FALLOR, SUM.
David Sachs
>: Brendan Power
>: fo...@io.com
Reportedly, Micrprose took such a big loss on Darklands, that its
stock proce fell drasticly. The concept of the game was excellent,
but the code was extremely buggy.
Many of the problems were due to bad memory management, It might be
worthwhile for someone to redo the code to use a DOS extender.
John Sabean
Darklands before it was ready to be released. Because of this, it was
filled with all sorts of bugs. People got tired of dealing with it and
the game became very unpopular and Microprose lost quite a bit of money
on it. From what I understand, the CRPG department became a scapegoat for
the financial troubles Microprose was having at the time and most of the
department was let go....
This is all rumor, however... (and rumors are treason....)
Matthew Duncan
I think Darklands had one of the best story lines and non-linear
play I've ever seen. Two things I didn't like are:
1) slow going at the start if you make your own characters
2) real time fighting great but I could never figure out why I could use
some potions in battle at one time, but not another. And why only
a select number. Is this a bug? Is it me? What gives? This really
bummed me out.
I doubt a sequel is in the works, but if they did I would love to see
magic spells, and make-your-own-magic.
Matt.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Duncan, Department of Psychology "Everything I know about
University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario. cleaning poop off the carpet
M5S 1A1. Email: dun...@psych.toronto.edu I learned from my cat"
Carl B Parker
: [snip, stuff about Darklands being a great game etc...]
Konstantin Boyandin
>I just want to bring up a favorite game of mine, Darklands, and get
> [...clipped...]
>involving pamphleting a town. Microprose seems to be abandoning a
>classic RPG.
Even if MicroProse fails to make sequels for Darklands, whatever the
reasins would be, the way out is simple. Many a person write RPGs nowadays,
my team included. If you state which features of Darklands were most
impressive, it would not be hard to allow a game be adjustable to them.
The same comment about all the other RPGs. A good game should be
highly adjustable, in my firm opinion.
Best regards,
Konstantin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Konstantin Yu. Boyandin, aka Master Bo m...@ccphys.nsu.nsk.su
------------------------------------------------ Hint: use Finger --
Kenneth Katsma
Organization: Illinois State University
Distribution:
Dennis Ahr (da...@fred.net) wrote:
: gbr...@netcom.com (Gilbert L. Brahms) wrote:
: >
: > The Court Jester (fo...@pentagon.io.com) wrote:
: > : I just want to bring up a favorite game of mine, Darklands, and get
: > : people's opinions on a sequel. I remember, in the designer's notes, tha
: > : they had planned multiple games (hence the saints from Norway), yet thes
: > : have not, and apparently will never materialize.
: >
: > I was rather fond of Darklands myself I
: > don't know whether you ever read Computer Gaming World, but their RPG
: > reviewer, Scorpia, gave it the worst rating I have ever seen her give a
: > game
: >
: I'll add my kudos to this thread on behalf of Darklands. I had not
: heard of the bad review in Gamers, but I guess Microprose read it. I
: have beaten the game several times, each time trying with a younger
: party on a more difficult level. It remains one of my favorite games.
: I see a copy on occasion at computer shows being sold at bargain prices.
: I would heartily recommend picking up a copy if you see one.
: Basically, you control a party of up to four individuals, male and/or
: female whose task it is to prevent the devil from taking over Medieval
: Germany. Many of the towns that you visit on your quest are real towns
: in modern Germany, Holland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, etc. University
: and cathedral names will be familiar,too. It's just a great game!
: All kinds of sound cards are supported, and the winning animation with
: sound is awesome.
: Are you reading this, Microprose? 8-)
: Cheers,
Hey Microprose! We loved this game! Give us more!
--
Kenneth Katsma
Dennis Ahr
> : I just want to bring up a favorite game of mine, Darklands, and get
> : people's opinions on a sequel. I remember, in the designer's notes, that
> : they had planned multiple games (hence the saints from Norway), yet these
> : have not, and apparently will never materialize.
>
> reviewer, Scorpia, gave it the worst rating I have ever seen her give a
Mark Krischer
of the best all time RPG's ever seen on the PC. despite
it's many bugs, it was way ahead of its time in many
respects. it incorporated many things which i periodically
see people here saying they'd like to see in RPGs. i just
recently reaquired it, and with the last patch, i haven't
had any problems yet. it was a definite loss to the crpg
community that this game died the death it did.
my AUS$0.02
mark
Steve Fleischaker (ICDApps)
. I believe they announced a while back that they were not intending to publish any
more after they pushed Dragonsphere <name?> out the door.. that was just finishing
what was on their plate.
Darklands had enormous potential, I'll agree.. I'm not convinced that the mindset was
appropriate, however. Microprose had features in the initial release of the game such
as not being able to save a dungeon crawl that might take 2 hours.. *not* because it
was not technically feasible <they added this feature later on>, but because they felt
it was inappropriate. If they'd studied their target market, they'd have realized that
kind of mindset went out with Proving Grounds of the mad Overlord, where characters
were aged 10 years if you hit the off-switch during play <to keep players from
stopping the machien before it recorded the slaughter of the party by poison giants or
goblins or whatnot>.
They made a number of design decisions which destroyed the playability of the game,
irrespective of the bugs. Another one of my favorites was the end-sequence where you
had the option of having a few pints of blood <and a corresponding number of strength
points> removed, as you "won." This turned a heroic victory into a pyrrhic one, since
at the same time they offered no means of increasing stats, since your viability as
a character was highly dependent on your strength, and on and on..
That Microprose released the game a full year before they put out enough patches to
keep players' hair from turning blue is a telling point, really.
I'm not thrashing Microprose. I believe they did an amazing job with Masters of Orion.
I simply do not believe that their lead designers have hte proper mindset for these
types of games. Same goes with SSI. I think their heart lies in wargame development.
There are just some levels of realism or certain design decisions which are inappropriate in an RPG. I would be surprised if the top people at Microprose
regularly play RPGs. I would be much less surprised if those top people were playing
games like Masters of Orion, Empire, Avalon Hill Games, etc.
sdf
Enrico.Horn
with you .Darkland is wonderful game although I am not very far in the game
(I just play for 2 game years and have about 300 fame points)but perhabs
one of you can tell me if I found a bug in V7:I was in Bamberg
and mayor told I should kill a robber knight but when I did and came back
they didn't want to give me money they want to give me a new task!
Enrico Horn
enric...@rz.tu-ilmenau.de
Hartmut Schmider
> I actually thought I am the only living Darklands fan .I absolutely agree
> with you .Darkland is wonderful game although I am not very far in the game
> (I just play for 2 game years and have about 300 fame points)but perhabs
> one of you can tell me if I found a bug in V7:I was in Bamberg
> and mayor told I should kill a robber knight but when I did and came back
> they didn't want to give me money they want to give me a new task!
This is just one of the aspects of the game where it shows that a great concept
wasn't carried all the way through. You will never get your money, i.e. you
waited too long to kill the guy or you went too far away or something, your
"task" was cancelled somewhere along the way.
Darklands could, as far as game play goes, be the best role-playing computer
game of all time, if Microprose would have stuffed another year of development
and another 10 meg of AI in there. Its basic concept is the only way to go for
RPG's, if we don't want to end up in the dead ends of manipulative plot devices
of the "interactive fiction" type, or graphics-and-sound smoke screens.
But it has to be done well if it's done at all. The mayor has to give you the money
or tell you why you don't get it. The god-damned robber knight has to remember
the second time you meet him, that you tried to kick his ass the first time 'round.
The golden key for the fountain of youth cannot be found under a vase in
Mr. Dumbhead's bedroom; it has to be in the pocket of the guy who stole it, and
the latter ought to put up a fight to prevent you from getting it. Remember
Ultima 8 ? - I steal the key from the Queen out of her personal chamber (yessir,
I did that), she stands by and comments: "Can't I get anything decent to eat
around here". Folks, that's role-playing.
My idea of a perfect RPG is: An artificial world, where people live
some sort of independent live, and you walk around and interfere. Depending
on your actions, things develop. You make mistakes, you die and they don't even care;
you figure it out, and you become the hero of these "folks". If that is guaranteed,
I don't even care if I have to read off the screen what happens, or if the only
sound I hear is the beep of the PC-speaker when I hit the wrong button.
My wet dream is Nethack-type ASCII graphics and Infocom-like text on 4 CD's,
one of which is taken up by a parser that is smarter than Dan Quayle;
the other three are filled with a world that is so big that I have to use my
annual holidays to travel on the other side of it, and so dense that the travel
is worth it. Most newer RPG's have gone down the wrong road: they look nice,
but even if they are difficult to figure out, they are predictable and shallow.
Darklands was different. If not some company has mercy and develops that type
of game to make it playable, we'll all end up playing "King Quest MMXDIV" and
won't know it because it has changed its name.
Hartmut "Who was that Maud person anyway..." Schmider
--
Hartmut Schmider, Kemisk Lab. B | Nein, der Seele bleibt keine Narbe
DTU - 301, 2800 Lyngby, Denmark | zurueck. Der Menschheit wird die Kugel
| beim einen Ohr hinein und beim andern
e-mail ha...@tkemi.klb.dth.dk | herausgegangen sein. K. Kraus
Mark Krischer
> with you .Darkland is wonderful game although I am not very far in the game
> (I just play for 2 game years and have about 300 fame points)but perhabs
> one of you can tell me if I found a bug in V7:I was in Bamberg
> and mayor told I should kill a robber knight but when I did and came back
> they didn't want to give me money they want to give me a new task!
>
> Enrico Horn
> enric...@rz.tu-ilmenau.de
there's a possibility its a screw up in the game logic, but
more likely you might have killed the wrong robber knight.
also, i seem to recall that if you take a long to come back
and reclaim your reward, they sometimes "forget"
mark
Jacques Archambault
Mark Krischer <mkr...@mpce.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>> (snip) perhaps
>> one of you can tell me if I found a bug in V7:I was in Bamberg
>> and mayor told I should kill a robber knight but when I did and came back
>> they didn't want to give me money they want to give me a new task!
>>
>> Enrico Horn
>> enric...@rz.tu-ilmenau.de
>
>there's a possibility its a screw up in the game logic, but
>more likely you might have killed the wrong robber knight.
>also, i seem to recall that if you take a long to come back
>and reclaim your reward, they sometimes "forget"
>
>mark
I don't belive you ever get money when the "mayor" of a town asks you to
get rid of a robber knight. Your reward is fame and an increase
reputation in the town. If you want a big monetary reward for ridding the
countryside of a robber knight, get a Goods Merchant to hire you for the
job (15-40 Florins).
I also think this was one of the best RPG's ever released. I liked the
fact that it could take quite some time to build up your characters.
My 2 cents.
Jacques.
--
Jacques G. Archambault Email: g932...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "You better
Department of Chemical Engineering, McMaster University believe it
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada baby!"
**The above opinions are strictly my own**
Warren 'Mjollnir' Ransom
traded for newer games and i play darklands still. it's really too bad
there is no planned sequel, i guess like Wasteland, this is another
classic that has no follow up, a bold error IMHO.
--
W...@cloud9.net | There should be a science of discontent.
-an amazing feat| People need hard times and oppression to develop psychic
of creation. | muscles. -from "Collected Sayings Of Muad'Dib" by the
| Princess Irulan
Dennis Ahr
Merry Christmas!
Dennis
Legendary Hero 8-)
Suraj Anthony Peiris
I am also a darklands fan, and usually play it every few months. A few
months ago I thought I'd follow up on that hint of a sequel. I found
microprose's email address and asked about future plans for darklands.
To my utter dismay, I was told that they had no future plans for the
game. So I guess they decided to chicken out. A sequel, properly done,
or even a new game using the same engine might have won over those who
weren't converted the first time around.
--
Suraj Peiris, | WATCH THIS SPACE FOR FURTHER
1st Year Engineering | DEVELOPMENTS!
RMIT,Melbourne,Australia | I'm restricted to 4 lines !
Email: s940...@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au| Why oh why oh why ???!!!
Tyler Bannister
> John Sabean (doc...@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
>
> I am also a darklands fan, and usually play it every few months. A few
> months ago I thought I'd follow up on that hint of a sequel. I found
> microprose's email address and asked about future plans for darklands.
> To my utter dismay, I was told that they had no future plans for the
> game. So I guess they decided to chicken out. A sequel, properly done,
> or even a new game using the same engine might have won over those who
> weren't converted the first time around.
Perhaps too many people have been upset by the poor performance... While
it is true that I have not yet acquired to patch to version 7, I had the original version 4.1 and after patching through 2 major revisions and 3 or 4 minor ones, I am still quite upset with the game...
--
Tyler Bannister
tban...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
Dan Walker
SAP> I am also a darklands fan, and usually play it every few months. A
SAP> few months ago I thought I'd follow up on that hint of a sequel. I
SAP> found microprose's email address and asked about future plans for
SAP> darklands. To my utter dismay, I was told that they had no future
SAP> plans for the game. So I guess they decided to chicken out. A
Last time I talked to somebody at Microprose, the decision to
not do a sequel is due in part to their merger with
Spectrum-Holobyte, and corporate decision to stick with
Simulations and Stategy games, rather than role-playing games.
It was a neat game, and with the patches, I have had no problems
with it at all(except occassionally the colors of my characters
hair changing to some really weird combos) :-)
dan
... If at first you don't succeed, call it Version 1.0...
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