EVGA gfx 275 .. low frame rate in Risen ???
johns
high with Antialiasing at 16x. Frame rate in Gothic 3
was nice. In Risen, at the start, fps was also fine. But
when I get to the Harbor City, the frame rate is in the
dirt ??? I ran AquaMark and the fps there was the
highest I've ever seen .. beating my defunct 8800 gt
by a lot ... scoring 151K.
I remember PB seems to have a problem in their
graphic engines with Shadows or Shading. G3 ran
awful until Shadows was dropped to Low ... and
looked fine. Wonder if that is not the case here
again ??
Anybody out there seeing this ?
johns
Werner Punz
framerate stayed high (30+) in the city, there was no difference
between the city and the surrounding areas in this regard.
But I have not turned on AA (since I run on 1920x1200 anyway AA is
absolutely pointless for me)
And there is not too much shading going on in the city, most of the cell
shading happens in the outsides with the grass effects.
The water effects in the city is mostly textures.
John Lewis
wrote:
>I just let Risen do an auto setup, and everything is on
>high with Antialiasing at 16x.
Er, at what screen resolution? What type of monitor do you have...
> Frame rate in Gothic 3
>was nice. In Risen, at the start, fps was also fine. But
>when I get to the Harbor City, the frame rate is in the
>dirt ???
What unit of measure is "dirt"??
Can't find it in my US Weights and Measures almanac...
> I ran AquaMark and the fps there was the
>highest I've ever seen .. beating my defunct 8800 gt
>by a lot ... scoring 151K.
>
For a bit-level problem expert, you seem to omit the elementary
"change one variable at at a time and OBSERVE/RECORD RESULTS" before
moaning at the newsgroup. How about some real analytical FACTS from
you for a change?
Know how to run FRAPS? Or much, much better, since you own a eVGA
GTX275, set up eVGA Precision (V1.8.1) in its on-screen display mode
with both FPS and GPU core temperature showing while playing Risen. A
first-class real-time performance tool. (Do not attempt to use eVGA
Precision or any other tool to tweak the GPU, Shader or Memory clock
setting away from their Factory-default values while doing these
experiments...). If the GPU core temperature is NOT greater than
75deg C during the Risen slow-down with your default Risen graphics
settings, look for the problem outside the GPU. And if the GPU
core-temp is greater than 75 deg C, ( which says that the GPU is very
fully loaded) what happens to the observed "FPS" when you selectively
turn off various graphics enhancements? Presumably most of them are
accessible via the Graphics Options settings. If not, tweak a config
file or two...
So, if you still have a pretty crappy "frame-rate" in spite of
graphical parameter adjustments..?. Lots of single-player AI and
game-physics activity can bring a CPU to its knees... Observed
"Frame-rate" is a combination of CPU and GPU activity-loading !!!!
What CPU/Speed? Memory specs? OS & rev?
One glaring example: GTA4. For a decent "frame-rate", it needs a very
fast tri-core or quad-core CPU but a pretty modest modern graphics
card 8800GTX or equivalent ATi will do just fine. Throwing more
graphics horsepower at it achieves very little additional performance.
>I remember PB seems to have a problem in their
>graphic engines with Shadows or Shading. G3 ran
>awful until Shadows was dropped to Low ... and
>looked fine. Wonder if that is not the case here
>again ??
How about not wondering and actually capturing some real DATA and
publishing it here? You have all the tools necessary.... maybe
missing some required brain-power, but, hey, I can't help you
there....
John Lewis
Trimble Bracegirdle
3.2 GHz
..I have noticed a slight 'jerkyness which I did not have when running the
Risen Demo. ??
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") mouse (Measuring framerates just upsets him)
John Lewis
<no-...@never.spam> wrote:
>RISEN on my 8800GTX @ 1280 x 1024 all High settings. Win XP. Core 2 Duo @
>3.2 GHz
At least you offer a few relevant facts...... not normally a feature
of any of our dear "johns" postings...
John Lewis
johns
> Risen Demo. ??
Strange that I did not have such "stutter" with the 8800 GT.
Of course I fried it ... and it was "super-clocked" by BFG.
I used the stock driver for the EVGA 275 .. came on the
game CD. I think I'll go for a better driver next. There's been
OS updates since the 275 came out, and EVGA might
have the new driver listed at their site. I'll give tech support
a call too ... report back.
I think John Lewis idea of running all the test is fine, but
I have 2 eyes, and this is so bad, I don't need tests.
I did lower the Shader to Medium and got an improvement
but not always. I may just have a heat problem, and
the card is smart enough to dial back ???? Will see.
johns
Mike S.
wrote:
>I used the stock driver for the EVGA 275 .. came on the
>game CD.
This was your first mistake. You probably made more but I am not
paying too much attention when reading your posts.
CoinSpin
>> I think John Lewis idea of running all the test is fine, but
>> I have 2 eyes, and this is so bad, I don't need tests.
>> I did lower the Shader to Medium and got an improvement
>> but not always. I may just have a heat problem, and
>> the card is smart enough to dial back ???? Will see
Err, you DO realize that those tests are intended to let you know what
is causing the issue, not just proving that the issue exists, right? I
mean, yes you can obviously see the issue, nobody doubts you there.
But, you would think that it might be obvious to do some testing to find
out if the culprit is some perfect convergence of settings or maybe the
card itself. Tweaking some items and using the excellent EVGA tools
that John Lewis suggested will get you farther than calling tech
support, cause guess what? That's probably the first thing they will
tell you to do, so THEY can know what the hell is happening.
A little knowledge and some elbow grease goes a long way to finding
solutions.
--
~ CoinSpin
johns
and yet the jerky screen is still there. I think the next
logical test is to run ntune which claims to optimize
GPU performance for my system ... takes about 3 hours.
I wonder if that means that the "stock" performance is
all settings minimum. Anyway, here we go. Later.
johns
johns
> solutions.
OK. I ran ntune for 20 minutes. Then, the system was rebooted
and I started Risen and went to the performance settings and
returned all settings to HIGH with Anisotropic 16x.
Risen is now performing as it should. No screen stutter to
speak of, and I can tell that my fps is good. I played the
game for about 20 minutes, and then I exited and noted
that the GPU temp was at 67 C ... up from previous 59 C
I measured the other day with all the screen stutter.
Ntune said it was playing with the PCI bus timing ???
but it did not report anything when done. It just rebooted,
and I tried the game. I still don't notice the fan noise.
And I am on the factory-shipped default settings.
OK, John Lewis. What the heck did ntune mess with ??
I'm betting that the analog adjustments of the 275 can
slip somehow ... or the manufacturer .. or EVGA ... is
being sloppy about fine tuning these new cards before
they ship them. They are just throwing them out the
door as fast as they can sell them.
I also notice that I can actually speed this card up
with the Optimize Test, rather than stick with the
factory settings. They warn that it might require better
cooling than what is supplied with the stock fan.
At any rate, I now know that the card-tuning can
slip, and I call that "burn in". It must mean that
I will be running Ntune to keep the 275 working
as it should.
Trimble. Try that on your 8800 GT. See if it works
there. My 8800 GT ran smooth in Risen, and never
went out of the 60s with the Zalman fan working
very quiet.
johns
johns
the problem, and the tech wanted $14 for an answer.
Fine. They send me a card that has not been properly
setup, and want more money to do the job they should
be doing in the first place. All I wanted to know is why
did ntune work, and should I run the 3 hour version to
"tune" the card even better ? I just ran the 20 minute
version for a course tune-up.
johns
John Lewis
wrote:
>> A little knowledge and some elbow grease goes a long way to finding
What motherboard do you have?
nVidia's NTUNE is a MOTHERBOARD tuning tool, NOT a graphics card tool!
NTUNE is intended for a (now) very old series of motherboards.
The last update to this tool was September 2007.
Here is the URL. Look at the supported products:-
http://www.nvidia.com/object/ntune_5.05.54.00.html
Is your motherboard's chipset on the list? If so, then the tool has
done some good for your motherboard settings. Nothing to do with the
GTX275 itself.
If not, who knows what it did to your motherboard settings?
Don't complain about sporadic crashes and hangs if you have used this
tool on a motherboard/chip-set not listed at the above URL.
Hopefully you created a System Restore point before messing with
nTune. A very wise precaution when playing with any new (to you)
hardware-manipulation tool.
John Lewis
johns
It's a Gigabyte Core2 Duo E6750
> nVidia's NTUNE is a MOTHERBOARD tuning tool, NOT a graphics card tool!
The process claimed to tune the PCI-e bus. What else,
I don't know. Can't help but wonder if the damaged 8800
did something to the mobo which ntune was able to fix
... or possibly the mobo is damaged, and that looked
like a bad 8800. Still, replacing the 8800 with the 275
immediately fixed the graphics and allowed the system
to boot normally. I saw no further problems with graphics
in Gothic 3 ... or Aquamark. I don't remember problems
at the start of Risen, but after about an hour, the fps
slowed a lot. Maybe I just had not noticed it yet.
Now, Risen is smooth, just like it was with the 8800
before it went. ??? Be interesting to see if it holds.
Hmm. One possibility is ntune actually adjusts the
system BIOS .. which might have been slightly
scrambled when the 8800 blew. After the 8800 blew
the OS would not boot at all, and I could see problems
on the screen right at BIOS boot up. I bet that is it.
Ntune fixed the mobo BIOS setting for the pci-e bus.
johns
johns
the nVidia graphics driver is used for Overclocking
the video card .... which I did not do. I am staying
with the stock factory GPU and video memory
speeds. If ntune also adjusts pci-e bus speeds
fine, but I wonder here just exactly what was
adjusted. I notice ntune also adjusts Front side
bus settings. Maybe I should run the 3 hour
ntune ... I only ran the 20 minute one.
Aquamark tested fine, and it measures a
great deal of graphics funtions. I had frame
rates way up there during the tests. Also
the test before ntune gave 151K .. and after
ntune 153K with higher test temps of 8 degrees
C.
johns
Trimble Bracegirdle
System' feature
which does indeed refer to itself as Ntune .
I ran this way back & believe I have my overall settings set OK.
Don't want it resetting things I have.
NTUNE integrates itself into the Control Panes AND installs a separate
Monitoring feature that's mainly about Nforce Motherboard features.
Petso
wrote:
>Also, I just tried to ask EVGA Tech Support online about
Well understand on a daily basis they deal with douchbag hacks that
tweak their machine way beyond their own understanding, then instead
of admitting to themselves they are a fucktard, they blame the vendor,
in some cases already having fucked the hardware up. So $14 is a
small price to pay if they will pull your head out of your ass for ya.
John Lewis
Indeed, they must deal with a lot of people like our "johns"......
John Lewis
John Lewis
wrote:
>> What motherboard do you have?
As requested in my previous reply-posting, please list the model
number of the motherboard used with the GTX275. Also the model number
of your CPU.
John Lewis
johns
> number of the motherboard used with the GTX275. Also the model number
> of your CPU.
I would have to read it on boot up, and I'm too lazy
for that. It is one of the nicer Gigabyte D35 series
from about 2 years ago.
I've read at a couple of chat groups that ntune does
BIOS level work. I strongly suggest that is the
problem I saw. Obviously the next step is to overclock,
and there is an option to do just that in the 275 driver
.... but, for now, I'm satisfied with the results. I really
don't want to go to max overclock and have to listen
to a noisy fan.
Also, I have to conclude that the 275 is not a big
step up from the 8800 .. except for the quiet stock
fan.
johns
johns
> Monitoring feature that's mainly about Nforce Motherboard features.
My mobo is a Gigabyte P35-DS3R S-series. I think it is an Intel
chipset ... very high quality by the looks of it. I wonder if Ntune
is the same thing as Easy Tune 5, which is included as part of
the BIOS. Also, there's a mobo tweaker called M.I.T. ... wonder
what it tweaks ? Makes sense, although it never occured to
me that a digital device could use a "tune-up" to optimize its
features.
Does that mean you can go out and buy a big toy, and it
won't run worth a crap until you send it back to the shop
for a BIOS level "tune up" ?
Have you run Aquamark 3 on your box ? Be interested in
the final number .. like 151K. I swear I think my 8800 GTO
could also hit that mark.
johns
CoinSpin
You probably didn't actually blow anything up when the previous card
melted down, you just had good fortune with nTune and it adjusted your
PCI-e settings to better match your new graphics card. I've had the
same thing happen on a few different motherboards with nVidia chipsets,
provided the BIOS is truly tweakable - if it's an overclock-friendly
mobo, odds are nTune just tweaked your bus to get the best throughput
performance with that new card. Used to be we had to tweak all those
settings manually, doing some digging to find the optimum settings for
both mobo and GPU. And then pray alot to the pagan gods of
overclocking, sacrifice goats, etc.
I've never really played with nTune to see if it tuned Intel chipset
mobos or not, I always tend to have nVidia integrated graphics boards
(great for offloading the PhysX process onto the integrated core)...
And the last PC I built with an Intel set was using an ATi card, so I
sorta missed out on being able to test that.
In any case, glad you got things tweaked out so that Risen plays
smooth. Thinking about grabbing that title myself, been hearing enough
decent things about it lately.
--
~ CoinSpin
Trimble Bracegirdle
The results always seem to low or not right enough in some way
& I find my obsessive self tweaking n fretting n fiddling & finding fault
in things that seem OK when I just run them.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
johns
> smooth. Thinking about grabbing that title myself, been hearing enough
> decent things about it lately.
Thanks. Risen is definately worth having. It is a very
respectable part of the Gothic series. My personal test
of a good game is if I can play it more than an hour
and not want to quit. All of the Gothic series .. including
Risen ... can hold me for hours. Example of a game
I just can't stay in is Oblivion. I have never been able
to play that game for more than 15 minutes at a time.
johns
HRM
wrote:
>> As requested in my previous reply-posting, please list the model
>> number of the motherboard used with the GTX275. Also the model number
>> of your CPU.
>
>I would have to read it on boot up, and I'm too lazy
>for that. It is one of the nicer Gigabyte D35 series
>from about 2 years ago.
>
>I've read at a couple of chat groups that ntune does
>BIOS level work. I strongly suggest that is the
>problem I saw. Obviously the next step is to overclock,
Absolutely. When things aren't working to your satisfaction,
overclock it so that it fucks things up at a faster rate. This is
probably what happened to your first video card... overclocking which
lead to shortened life and instability, which gave you a short-term
feeling that you were getting good value by clocking it higher than it
was intended. I don't suppose you've figured out that overclocking is
a marketing gimmick for the retarded?
Justisaur
I upgraded to a 275 from a 8800 a few months ago when my 8800 died.
It's a huge difference in most things I've tried.
- Justisaur
Trimble Bracegirdle
wondering
wether 275 would be an improvement @@@
johns
> It's a huge difference in most things I've tried.
Well, now that mine is properly "n"tuned, it is clearly
about 20% better than my 8800. I'm back in Gothic3
looking at the screen stutter that was bad with the
8800, and it is GONE ! I can't help but wonder if
ntune would have fixed the 8800 also ?? I guess
these video cards are like any "tuned" circuit, and
have individual characteristics that need to be
matched due to slight variations in parts .. having
more than slight effects. I remember from the good
old days that ram was very flakey regards the
access window.
johns