Arcanum: Found schmatics and how to use (specifically bullets)...
David L. Pinkus
So I'm a gun technologist. I gots the firearms skills and I gots the
firearm smithing skills. I got a schematic to create bullets and learned
it... and it won't let me create them. It says I don't have the required
expertise. *WHAT* required expertise does it mean? Typically you can check
on the character screen what is needed for each schmatic, both in terms of
levels/attributes and equipment required... with found schematics how do
you determine this?
I don't like having spent good gold to learn a schematic I can't use.
Grrrrr...
On the other hand, despite numerous problems with the game, I find it quite
enjoyable to play.
Thanks,
David
Jason McCullough
It shows up under chemistry on the "construct items" screen, so you
need chemistry to build it.
It's highly annoying that they don't display the number prerequisite
anywhere, though.
Jason McCullough
blortkar...@yahoo.com
Remove "blort" from the front of my email address to contact me.
Artur Biesiadowski
> It shows up under chemistry on the "construct items" screen, so you
> need chemistry to build it.
>
> It's highly annoying that they don't display the number prerequisite
> anywhere, though.
Isn't the small numbers in right lower part of item box the required
expertise ?
Artur
Gavin Wheeler
Normally those numbers do show up on the schematic. If the schematic
is a cross-disciplinary one, at least... I don't have any
single-discipline found schematics at the moment, so I can't check
that.
From what others are saying here, they don't appear on the bullets
schematic. Maybe because it is a 'pure' chemistry schematic?
cmoore
When you look at the schematic, you will see icons for the two objects
necessary to create the desired item. In those icons there is a small
picture which shows the technological characteristics of that item (ie, a
picture of a lightning bolt for a light bulb, or the electricity
discipline), and a number, which represents the technological complexity of
that item. Your expertise in a particular discipline (which you can find on
the Disciplines Window on your character sheet -- the small blue number),
must be equal to or greater than the number shown for that item. If not,
you won't be able to make that item.
In less words, what this means is that often you will need to purchase
degress in multiple disciplines in order to make the cross-disciplinary
items. The important thing is your expertise vs. its technological
complexity.
cmoore.2001
Troika Games
"Jason McCullough" <blortkar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iv1rotg5jpehb1e2n...@4ax.com...
David L. Pinkus
care enough to have employees trolling around on the newsgroups waiting to
post helpful hints like this one (Black Isle was another noteworthy bunch).
Second, there is actually a section in the manual (which is huge, though
without an index it was almost impossible to find) and it details this but
doesn't do as good a job as the post below. Also, AFAIK your expertise only
has to be higher than the HIGHEST SINGLE number for one of the items, not
the combined total.
Thanks,
David
"cmoore" <cmo...@troikagames.com> wrote in message
news:tosv312...@corp.supernews.com...
cmoore
40, then your expertise in the Electreicity Discipline need only be 40 or
above...
Sorry if that was unclear...
As far as trolling...we're trolling away out here...:) Also, if you want to
check out a cool board, go the Arcanum Inn at Vaultnetwork
http://vnboards.ign.com/default.asp?cat=5003
We have a general message board, as well as a board for Spoilers and Mod
Questions...a lot of the guys over there have been around for a long time,
and know what they're talking about.
thanks
cmoore.2001
Troika Games
Sorry
"David L. Pinkus" <dp...@nospam.bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:1yvj7.25$DE4....@typhoon2.gnilink.net...
Jason McCullough
Yeah, I noticed this last night. Oops.
Brian C Robinson
: To answer any questions concerning found/cross disciplinary schematics...
Since we've got your attention, how can you tell what intelligence is
required to learn a given tech skill? I got up to skill 3 in guns in the
demo and when I finally gained another level (leveling with technologists
is a bitch) it said I needed more int. It so happened that the level I
gained was five so I had two points to spend. I tried putting one into
int raising it to 12 but then I still couldn't buy the next gun. It seems
all the other skills list the minimum ability needed to purchase them but
I couldn't find the listing for this one.
--
"If you choose ambition, then choose it honestly, with cruelty... if you
would make a mountain of the dead, then pile it to the sky; if you would
shed blood, then let it run as a river." - the Witch, Throne of Blood
| JA2 FAQ: come.to/ja2faq | JADG Mailing List: www.onelist.com/group/jadg |
TwinIon
news:9mmvbj$s9c$2...@news.cc.ucf.edu:
> cmoore (cmo...@troikagames.com) spewed forth:
>: To answer any questions concerning found/cross disciplinary
>: schematics...
>
> Since we've got your attention, how can you tell what intelligence is
> required to learn a given tech skill? I got up to skill 3 in guns in
> the demo and when I finally gained another level (leveling with
> technologists is a bitch) it said I needed more int. It so happened
> that the level I gained was five so I had two points to spend. I tried
> putting one into int raising it to 12 but then I still couldn't buy the
> next gun. It seems all the other skills list the minimum ability
> needed to purchase them but I couldn't find the listing for this one.
>
For skills, it is multiple of 3 starting from 6 of the cor skills. Firearms
needs Perception so you need PE of 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 for every rank (5 ranks
max)
For degrees, it's based on Int. I think it is in multiple of 2 (7, 9, 11,
13, 15, 17, 19). You can always check from the character sheet and it will
tell you how much stats you need to raise a rank or get a degree.
Clogar
>
> All -
>
> So I'm a gun technologist. I gots the firearms skills and I gots the
> firearm smithing skills. I got a schematic to create bullets and
> learned it... and it won't let me create them. It says I don't have
> the required expertise. *WHAT* required expertise does it mean?
I decided to try this out earlier this morning. I got the proper
schematic, put a point in explosives (NOT FIREARMS. I know others have
mentioned this, but it STILL ticks me off that training in firearms
doesn't cover making bullets), got the two ingredients, and went to
work. I ended up being able to make 20 bullets a pop. But when you
consider that the saltpeter I need to MAKE the bullets cost me 40
coins, the basic cost per bullet came out to be 2 coins per bullet.
But, if we figure in the 200+ coins I had to spend initially to purchase
the schematic, as well as the invaluable character point I had to spend
(how many coins would YOU pay for a character point? 1000? 2000?), the
price went up considerably.
Since I can normally get bullets for 4 coins each, investing CPs in
explosives and buying a schematic is NOT a good deal for my character.
Maybe if they increased the number of bullets made to 40 it would be
worth it, but right now? Not even close.
Kostoff
They do, but you have no way of knowing that until you buy it. The game
should allow you to browse the bloody things before you plunk down your hard
earned cash, only to realize that you are several character points away from
being able to build whatever it lets you build.
Caveat Emptor!
Balut
You're thinking short-term here. You can also find the ingredients to make
bullets in trash bins and treasure chests, and I do so at any opportunity. The
average bullet costs 4 gold per, so 20 bullets == 80 coins.
Say you spent 250 coins on the schematic. You make bullets 4 times, you've
already recouped the cost to buy the equivalent. If you spend 40 coins per for
the necessary ingredients, you've recouped the cost after making bullets 7
times.
My gunslinger is level 32, and I figure I've made bullets from the schematic at
_least_ 40 or 50 times now. That's a HUGE savings in money. Remember, 50 times
used == 1000 bullets, which would've cost 4000 gold purchased. Even if I had to
buy the materials every time, which I only need to do about half the time, it
would cost 250 gold for the schematic + (50 x 40) == 2250. You're still saving
1750 gold. You can buy a really good gun or piece of armor for that money.
- Balut
Clogar
>
[snip]
> You're thinking short-term here. You can also find the ingredients to
> make bullets in trash bins and treasure chests, and I do so at any
> opportunity.
You can find the charcoal in trash bins - I have yet to see the
salt there. Unless there's some mine later in the game that I've missed,
the stuff is pretty rare. There are those two you find right away, and
then that seems to be it for a long time.
> The average bullet costs 4 gold per, so 20 bullets == 80 coins.
>
> Say you spent 250 coins on the schematic. You make bullets 4 times,
> you've already recouped the cost to buy the equivalent. If you spend
> 40 coins per for the necessary ingredients, you've recouped the cost
> after making bullets 7 times.
You've recouped the coin cost, not the CP cost. The question is:
how much is that CP worth to you? If it is only worth a couple hundred
coins, it is worth the cost. If you'd pay thousands of coins for a
CP, though.. then you're getting the short end of the stick.
> My gunslinger is level 32, and I figure I've made bullets from the
> schematic at _least_ 40 or 50 times now. That's a HUGE savings in
> money. Remember, 50 times used == 1000 bullets, which would've cost
> 4000 gold purchased.
But that's saying that you got ALL your saltpeter free, which I'm
pretty sure you didn't (unless you're game is very, very different than
mine). In fact, I have trouble seeing how you got that amount free
before you switched ammo types (but then, I don't know your weapon).
> Even if I had to buy the materials every time, which I only need to do
> about half the time, it would cost 250 gold for the schematic + (50 x
> 40) == 2250. You're still saving 1750 gold. You can buy a really good
> gun or piece of armor for that money.
So you traded one Character Point for 1750 coins basicly.
Personally, I'd rather have the Character Point. :/
Balut
Or you can get a free tech book at Tarant University (known exploit) or pay
money for the tech book. Either way, long term it pays off.
- Balut
cmoore
cmoore.2001
Troika Games
"Clogar" <clog...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3B8F84...@nospam.com...
Grifman
You don't need to spend a character point. Just buy a technical
manual.
Grifman
Eric VanHeest
> Since I can normally get bullets for 4 coins each, investing CPs in
> explosives and buying a schematic is NOT a good deal for my character.
> Maybe if they increased the number of bullets made to 40 it would be
> worth it, but right now? Not even close.
Can't one of the dwarf NPCs make bullets for you? I forget. I like
magic :)
TwinIon
> Since I can normally get bullets for 4 coins each, investing CPs in
> explosives and buying a schematic is NOT a good deal for my character.
> Maybe if they increased the number of bullets made to 40 it would be
> worth it, but right now? Not even close.
>
You could buy a book in explosives. That whay I did. But then it raised the
invest cost to 700 + 240. However, you do get to make a lot of bullets so
the it quickly recovers the costs. Bullets and Fuel are the two most useful
bought schematics. The rest are mostly one use items or requires you to
have high investment in a certain discipline.
David T. Bilek
I've found the Pyrotechnic Axe to be the most valuable bought
schematic. Magnus has been using one of those babies for the entire
game so far (Got him at level 12, am level 41 now).
With the new info provided by the patch, I'm wondering if the Iron
Clan Hammer isn't a touch better though. Without the patch they
looked the same speed, but when Magnus uses them, the IC Hammer is
twice as fast and does 2/3 the damage. So average damage should be
higher.
Too bad I dropped the IC Hammer pre-patch and dont remember where.
-David
Clogar
>
[snip]
> > So you traded one Character Point for 1750 coins basicly.
> >Personally, I'd rather have the Character Point. :/
>
> Or you can get a free tech book at Tarant University (known exploit)
If I want to use an exploit, I'll just use the editor and give
myself bullets. ;)
> or pay money for the tech book. Either way, long term it pays off.
The book costs 750 coins and weighs 200 stones, I believe. Applying
it to your previous scenario, you have to spend 1000+ coins early in
the game (when coins are the hardest to come by and you need them the
most) AND lug around around a 200 stone book (or move it from city to
city in your storage area) so that, after making 1000 bullets, you'll
save 1000 coins later in the game (when you need them the least).
The few cans of free saltpeter will help favorably alter the equation,
but it is still pretty bleak (especially since you can only buy one can
of salt peter from any given merchant once a day in most cases).
I just don't see it. You'd be better off dumpster-diving for shoes
and other items you can sell if you need the cash. I suppose you could
do both, but I'm not that much of a scrooge... ;)
The books does work better than the invested point, though. :)
-= Clogar
Brian C Robinson
: The book costs 750 coins and weighs 200 stones, I believe. Applying
: it to your previous scenario, you have to spend 1000+ coins early in
: the game (when coins are the hardest to come by and you need them the
: most)
Did they change things so you rarely find gingko and kadura in the forests
in the full game? In the demo about half of the stops you make on the
overland map give you some of these herbs and with one point in herbology
you can make the healing salve which sells for about 20 without any points
in haggle. Each time you make it you get five so that's 100 coins. It
typically took me about half an hour of wandering the forest and fighting
random encounters to get enough herbs to have 1000 coins.
Clogar
>
[snip]
> The rest are mostly one use items or requires you to
> have high investment in a certain discipline.
Speaking of useful schematics and ammo: Anyone found a good supply
of lemons and potatoes yet?
Clogar
>
[snip]
> Did they change things so you rarely find gingko and kadura in the
> forests in the full game? In the demo about half of the stops you
> make on the overland map give you some of these herbs and with one
> point in herbology you can make the healing salve which sells for
> about 20 without any points in haggle.
This is still in the game (I can't tell you if is exactly like the
demo because I never played it, but they are pretty common). I hired
a girl to make the potions for me so that I didn't have to spend the
CP, though. Of course, I also tend to use a lot of potions, so I don't
sell them for coin as much as drink them for survival... ;)