Ion Storm, Deux Ex and Warren Spector ramblings...
Eric Liebl
Observer posted their article last week. On rereading it I found a link
http://www.dallasobserver.com/1999/011499/feature1-x1.html that details some
emails that floated around Ion...several of which involved Warren. If you
guys have not read the emails involved you are only getting a filtered view
of what is going on...
Anyway, I was concerned after reading the emails that involved Warren. I
have a lot of respect for the man who led the design efforts on some of the
great Ultima titles...I also thought there would be more money involved...is
$150k/year salary what a lead designer can expect in this industry? I don't
think that is a lot of cash if you consider the long work hours these guys
put in (then again there was a blurb about attendance...).
I was really amazed that the Dallas Observer was able to post the company's
expense reports (and Eidos's internal company sales numbers to
retailers)...I mean, I really must have a huge leak and I think there is
going to be a lot of legal troubles that are going to ensnare the company
from here on out. Is this what every game company goes through while they
are developing products?
Personally, I see the company failing this year. I don't think Warren is
going to have the luxury of time or resources to get Deus Ex out. I feel
sorry for the team that left OSI...Bob White in particular since I found him
to be an excellent spokesperson for Ultima:Ascension. It seems that they
have lept from the frying pan into the fire. (BTW...anyone else out there
who wasn't greatly impressed with the single game screenshot released for
Deus Ex thus far?)
Does anyone else care to make some predictions? Mine are:
1. Ion Storm will fail this year when Eidos pulls the plug after deadlines
slip again. Sure, Ion Storm is going to shop around for another
publisher...but what are they bring to the table? Inner company strife,
debt, and tiles based on two or more year old technology. Id must really be
having a filed day with this whole mess!
2. Warren and Team will move to G.O.D. Games. Where else will he go?
Raven lost the Ultima Underworld designers to Head Games, he won't go back
to EA, Interplay has its own financial woes (although a Black Isle
opportunity could be very beneficial to gamers).
3. BitchX is going to go for the jugular over the next several months.
This person is connected...I would love to find out who the leak is (or
are)...I think it might come out in court.
4. Tod Porter is going to stop using his email. :) (This story has
illustrated why some things should never be discussed using email).
This whole affair is sure to go down as one of the biggest cases of hype,
fraud, and everything wrong with the expanding computer games industry in
its short history.
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~
joelm...@geocities.com
"Eric Liebl" <eli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> BTW...anyone else out there
> who wasn't greatly impressed with the single game screenshot released for
> Deus Ex thus far?
Yeah, but in a "This shows me nothing about the gameplay" sense. Everyone
releases these early screenshots, but on a fundimental level they all look
alike...
> 1. Ion Storm will fail this year when Eidos pulls the plug after deadlines
> slip again. Sure, Ion Storm is going to shop around for another
> publisher...but what are they bring to the table? Inner company strife,
> debt, and tiles based on two or more year old technology. Id must really be
> having a filed day with this whole mess!
Eidos owns too much of them. I predict Eidos cracking down about mid-way
through the year.
> 2. Warren and Team will move to G.O.D. Games. Where else will he go?
> Raven lost the Ultima Underworld designers to Head Games, he won't go back
> to EA, Interplay has its own financial woes (although a Black Isle
> opportunity could be very beneficial to gamers).
This depends on if Deus Ex goes away. If it does, Spector's going to GoD;
if not, I suspect he will set up his own developement house to finish the
game for Eidos.
> 3. BitchX is going to go for the jugular over the next several months.
He wasn't before?
Yeah, that's right, I think BitchX is a man and one who almost definitely
worked at Ion for at least some time. May have even been one of the eight.
Notice the extremely reduced output after Bloodshot formed. Also notice
the fact that he got scoops on Ion within literally minutes...
> This whole affair is sure to go down as one of the biggest cases of hype,
> fraud, and everything wrong with the expanding computer games industry in
> its short history.
It's easily the most dramatic news story to have ever come out in computer
gaming. Other companies have hyped; other companies have defrauded the
customers and investors; other companies have had internal conflicts that
have brought them low; but rarely has a game company done all three on such
a scale and self-destructed so publicly.
Joel Mathis
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
MdmeDis
says...
> I have been following the Ion Storm soap opera a bit more since the Dallas
> Observer posted their article last week. On rereading it I found a link
> http://www.dallasobserver.com/1999/011499/feature1-x1.html that details some
> emails that floated around Ion...several of which involved Warren. If you
> guys have not read the emails involved you are only getting a filtered view
> of what is going on...
I read 'em - interesting - but one wonders if nothing is sacred. I don't
know that it was entirely necessary for the DO to publish them in their
entirety. It was the stuff about Spector's salary that really bothered
me - not really relevant to the story, other than IS was claiming it
paid its employees mightily.
>
> Anyway, I was concerned after reading the emails that involved Warren. I
> have a lot of respect for the man who led the design efforts on some of the
> great Ultima titles...
Same here - I was quite angry about it - but I could've stopped reading,
and didn't, so I'm not going to get too pious. It raises all sorts of
questions about privacy and journalism, though.
> I also thought there would be more money involved...is
> $150k/year salary what a lead designer can expect in this industry?
Well, he was trying to negotiate a cut of the take.
> I don't
> think that is a lot of cash if you consider the long work hours these guys
> put in (then again there was a blurb about attendance...).
Ack. Now you're gonna get me on my hobby horse. They spend a fortune on
actors and piddly movie bits no-one wants, and pay the creators, without
whom there would be no game, relatively little. 'Tis the nature of the
Beast, though - that's how entrepreneurial capitalism works. The people
willing to risk the money make the most - and, as Eidos is finding out,
lose the most!
However, what is the solution for a Spector? Start his own company?
Garriott and Romero did that, probably with every intention of doing it
right by the design teams - and they found in short order that money is
god - they are so far out of their realm here, they become ensnared. All
they have is their name and their egos. People as good as Spector know
their abilities and will stick to the thing they do best. As long as
they can make a living wage, they will accept that to do what they love.
And that is why I get so bent out of shape with the Garriotts and the
Romeros for hiring the Jerrys and the Castillos - a little research and
thought could prevent all this.
> I was really amazed that the Dallas Observer was able to post the company's
> expense reports (and Eidos's internal company sales numbers to
> retailers)...I mean, I really must have a huge leak and I think there is
> going to be a lot of legal troubles that are going to ensnare the company
> from here on out. Is this what every game company goes through while they
> are developing products?
The DO has been sued in a nice tricky little move by Ion Storm.
Apparently they served the reporter on Sunday with a whatsit to appear
on Tuesday, thus giving the DO lawyers no time to ask for a delay -
which apparently they managed.
>
> Personally, I see the company failing this year. I don't think Warren is
> going to have the luxury of time or resources to get Deus Ex out. I feel
> sorry for the team that left OSI...Bob White in particular since I found him
> to be an excellent spokesperson for Ultima:Ascension. It seems that they
> have lept from the frying pan into the fire. (BTW...anyone else out there
> who wasn't greatly impressed with the single game screenshot released for
> Deus Ex thus far?)
I really wish there was something that could be done to protect these
guys. Actually, there is - but they are going to have to do it
themselves. Effectively, they are going to have to get their own little
union and tell the company the way its gonna be. This has its own
dangers, and these guys are not good in social groups. <shrug>
--
Disoriented Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
D'ya ever have those days when you think
maybe its you, and not the rest of the world
that's fucked up?
Christopher Tew
this is MdmeDis:
>I read 'em - interesting - but one wonders if nothing is sacred. I don't
>know that it was entirely necessary for the DO to publish them in their
>entirety. It was the stuff about Spector's salary that really bothered
>me - not really relevant to the story, other than IS was claiming it
>paid its employees mightily.
Well, the most common rumour was that Porter called up the DO,
threatened a lawsuit, and the DO published the e-mails and
spreadsheets as a way of saying, "Fuck off."
>Same here - I was quite angry about it - but I could've stopped reading,
>and didn't, so I'm not going to get too pious. It raises all sorts of
>questions about privacy and journalism, though.
Well, companies have argued that the e-mail of employees isn't private
material in cases regarding their monitoring of employee e-mail. They
can't have it both ways.
In any case, the e-mails more than likely would have been submitted as
evidence for any lawsuit, and unless sealed by court order, they would
have become publically available.
>> I also thought there would be more money involved...is
>> $150k/year salary what a lead designer can expect in this industry?
>
>Well, he was trying to negotiate a cut of the take.
10% of royalties + a 5% pool for the rest of the development team.
>However, what is the solution for a Spector? Start his own company?
>Garriott and Romero did that, probably with every intention of doing it
>right by the design teams
I doubt that Garriott thought that he'd be dealing with teams of any
sort when he founded Origin.
>The DO has been sued in a nice tricky little move by Ion Storm.
>Apparently they served the reporter on Sunday with a whatsit to appear
>on Tuesday, thus giving the DO lawyers no time to ask for a delay -
>which apparently they managed.
The point of the subpeona is that IS wants Christine Biederman, the
reporter, to reveal her sources. Not likely to happen. And here's an
amusing quote from the DO:
"But we'll give our lawyers some money. ION Storm
will give their lawyers some of their investors' money - and while
this thing works itself out, the Observer will continue to publish.
Chances are, the same thing can't be said about ION Storm."
Can yuh feel the love?
-Cat
--
Guns don't kill people, I kill people.
________To respond, replace weeble with com_______
Thrasher
wrote:
>Same here - I was quite angry about it - but I could've stopped reading,
>and didn't, so I'm not going to get too pious. It raises all sorts of
>questions about privacy and journalism, though.
E-Mail is not private. Legally I think corporate e-mail belongs to the
company, and they have the write to monitor it and archive it at their
discretion. Private matters don't belong in e-mail. There have been
cases in the past where employees were fired because of things they
said in private e-mail, and the courts found against them.
That being said, it's still disturbing to see.
Kevin McGuire
: Can yuh feel the love?
And speaking of love...
I bookmarked the Dallas Observer web site, and while moving it to the
appropriate folder, I noticed that the bookmark was:
"Dallas Observer Online: Will work for subpoenas".
--
Kevin McGuire
University of Pennsylvania
#Remove the 2 "moo" to reply#
cheehui
who spilled the beans on Ion in that Dallas Observer report:
http://headline.gamespot.com/news/99_01/22_pc_biederman/index.html
Maybe someone should get 60 minutes to look into Ion.... ;-)
-cheehui:-)
Desslock
> In article <789q6u$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
> "Eric Liebl" <eli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > 1. Ion Storm will fail this year when Eidos pulls the plug after deadlines
> > slip again. Sure, Ion Storm is going to shop around for another
> > publisher...but what are they bring to the table? Inner company strife,
> > debt, and tiles based on two or more year old technology. Id must really be
> > having a filed day with this whole mess!
>
> Eidos owns too much of them. I predict Eidos cracking down about mid-way
> through the year.
Eidos owns nothing of them. For Eidos to walk away, however, they'd likely lose
all of the advances they gave. Perhaps not though -- bound to be contractual
breaches all over though.
> >This depends on if Deus Ex goes away. If it does, Spector's going to GoD;
> if not, I suspect he will set up his own developement house to finish the
> game for Eidos.
>
> > 3. BitchX is going to go for the jugular over the next several months.
>
> He wasn't before?
>
> Yeah, that's right, I think BitchX is a man and one who almost definitely
> worked at Ion for at least some time. May have even been one of the eight.
> Notice the extremely reduced output after Bloodshot formed. Also notice
> the fact that he got scoops on Ion within literally minutes...
I don't agree. Perhaps an ex Virgin Interactiver though.
Heh, I'd just be pleased if BitchX posted more than once a month.
> > This whole affair is sure to go down as one of the biggest cases of hype,
> > fraud, and everything wrong with the expanding computer games industry in
> > its short history.
>
> It's easily the most dramatic news story to have ever come out in computer
> gaming. Other companies have hyped; other companies have defrauded the
> customers and investors; other companies have had internal conflicts that
> have brought them low; but rarely has a game company done all three on such
> a scale and self-destructed so publicly.
Yep.
Desslock
--
Desslock's RPG News: http://desslock.gamespot.com
Desslock's Domain at
Gamespot:http://www.gamespot.com/misc/columns/desslock_981201.html
Latest Additions - Baldur's Gate Review, "Ultima Online - One Year Later"
interview, Fallout 2 Post-Release Interview, Return to Krondor Review and more.
Desslock
with RealAudio.
Hey, she's a disenchanted lawyer...gee.
Desslock
cheehui wrote:
--
Stuart Booth
[IonStorm] (obviously I don't track him too closely, but I AM aware of
this excellent past, hence his name raises my interest dramatically).
I hope he comes out of this shambles okay.
Christo...@hotmail.weeble (Christopher Tew) wrote:
>The point of the subpeona is that IS wants Christine Biederman, the
>reporter, to reveal her sources. Not likely to happen. And here's an
>amusing quote from the DO:
>
>"But we'll give our lawyers some money. ION Storm
>will give their lawyers some of their investors' money - and while
>this thing works itself out, the Observer will continue to publish.
>Chances are, the same thing can't be said about ION Storm."
>
>Can yuh feel the love?
Hehe. This is such a great story all in all. Highly interesting. The
DO is getting so much publicity from this amongst the gaming
community. I knew nothing about the DO before this 'landmark' (?) in
gaming history and hope that they, and others, keep it up.
One day I hope somebody writes a book about it all - the history of
id, from the early days, thought the seperation of Carmack/Romero,
through the implosion that seems to be IonStorm, and whatever happens
next. If they can do it for how Microsoft got the DOS contract from
IBM, and Wozniak/Jobs, why not this era?
It's not often I pass on references to this news story to my friends
with such entertainment ratings attached!
Stuart
--
Stuart Booth
Somewhere in Buckinghamshire, England, UK
stu...@garage.demon.co.uk
Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z
Stuart Park
> > I don't
> > think that is a lot of cash if you consider the long work hours these guys
> > put in (then again there was a blurb about attendance...).
>
> Ack. Now you're gonna get me on my hobby horse. They spend a fortune on
> actors and piddly movie bits no-one wants, and pay the creators, without
> whom there would be no game, relatively little. 'Tis the nature of the
> Beast, though - that's how entrepreneurial capitalism works. The people
> willing to risk the money make the most - and, as Eidos is finding out,
> lose the most!
All this talk about a spectacular failure reminds me of a film
by Mel Brooks called "The Producers".
I wonder if there will ever be a "Springtime for Hitler" computer game..
:)
--
"You are not to watch this show.. it is immature toilet humour" - South
Park
Stuart Park
E-Mail: stuar...@ozemail.com.au Melbourne, Australia
LOTcyclops
fraud, and everything wrong with the expanding computer games industry in
its short history.>>>
developers, where these sorts of problems never happen, and the customer comes
first?
-Dr. Dungeon, In The Castle of The Mach Gryphon
-----== Look out for the mother of all shareware rpg's ==---
Ultizurk IV: Lord of the Cyclops = coming soon!