MM8 Final Thoughts -- SPOILERS
Jeff Dai
loved the game overall but after a certain point (after my lich got GM
Water) the game took about 7 hours to finish. Let me put a caveat on
that. In the end I didn't fight most of the monster since (Plane of Fire,
Plane of Water, Plane between Plane) you can just fly over most of them
and since most don't fly, or fly really slow, you just avoid everything.
Some more specifics:
1) I really liked the story. It was linear but that's what I've come to
expect from MM. As someone else mentioned I was hoping that Escaton would
lead to other worlds but the egg/prison quests were neat too.
2) I loved some of the dungeons. Abandoned Temple, Escaton's Palace,
Earth Egg, Balthazar's Lair, Castle of Fire, and the Plane of Air.
Abandoned Temple - The puzzle rooms. They weren't hard but they
were neat.
Escaton's Palace - Didn't like the running all around pulling
switches but I liked the riddles at the end. It's nice to
see MM going back to their roots (Remember the riddles in
MM1?)
Earth Egg - Liked the design of this prison. Nice thought on how
to unnerve an Earth Elemental
Plane of Air - Nothing special other than I really liked the
floating buildings!
Balthazar's Lair - This puzzle would have been even better if
there hadn't been the scroll telling you which order to
pull the levers
Castle of Fire - Loved the design and had fun with Fire Elemental
ambush
3) Here's a big gripe. Finding levers! The one in the Ogre Raiding Fort I
found by accident. Zog's Fortress (Ravage Roaming) and Cyclop's Larder
(Ironsand) were a pain to find. I ended up wall hunting pushing the space
bar like mad. If you're going to make a lever either put the in another
color or make sure they show up on a GM Wizrd Eye. GM Wizard Eye is
supposed to show you points of interest. I would have thought a lever
would be a point of interest! Another palce this was annoying was in
Murmurwood trying to find the five statues. Took me half an hour to find
Cauri. Then I found out that you have to have a SCROLL of stone to
Flesh. I had already used one but had a necromancer who could cast
it. Did the game allow me? NO! I ended up saving and reloading outside a
magic shop to buy one. Annoying to say the least.
4) I liked the NPC's I ended up using only one of the 50th level
characters. By the time I got them I was already happier with the skill
mix on my characters. I also didn't take a Dragon along. I ended up with
myself (Dark Elf), the lvl 5 vampire, Nathaniel Roberts (necromancer),
Blazen Stormlance (Knight), and the lvl 5 cleric.
5) I found in the end that might is better than magic. I generally used
magic for transport, protection and healing. My basic strategy was to
avoid monsters. Barring that I would just run up to the monster and kill
him with one or two strikes with the Stormlance :)
6) I liked the artifacts and relics (though they don't say that
anymore). I found a ton of them. The most amusing thing I did was but
the Light and Dark swords in the hand of my Dark Elf. I was hoping for
something cataclysmic to happen but.......
7) I was kind of disappointed that the NWC office wasn't more of an easter
egg. In 6 you either had to kill all the dragons or find the magic portal
and then there was all sorts of neat stuff in the office to pillage. In 7
you had to find the office which wasn't the easiest of things since it was
it a tiny bottle. Now it just sits there on the Plane between Planes.
8) Tiny gripe. I wish Town Portal would portal to all the towns. This
has been a gripe for a long time though. It's annoying in the end game
when you have to rest for a couple of days just to get the coach to the
Ironsand desert.
9) Something I liked this time is you didn't have to fight
everything. For example, in the Temple of the Sun I turned myself
invisible, stole the brazier and then just town portaled out.
Things that I didn't finish
1) Where is Eclipse?
2) How do you get the key to the Time Vault
3) How do you open the locked door above the Inn behind the Gynasium (in
Ravenshore by the Crystal)?
If you know please email me or follow up the post.
Overall another great Might and Magic game. Let's see what they can do
with a new engine and I can't wait for HoMM IV
Jeff
Peter Seebach
Jeff Dai <d...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>8) Tiny gripe. I wish Town Portal would portal to all the towns. This
>has been a gripe for a long time though. It's annoying in the end game
>when you have to rest for a couple of days just to get the coach to the
>Ironsand desert.
I was really confused by this; I can portal to Dagger Wound and Shadowspire,
but nowhere else. Are they back to the "drink from the fountain" thing? If
so, where's the !@#*! fountain for Rust?
-s
--
Copyright 2000, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / se...@plethora.net
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting & Computers: http://www.plethora.net/
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Rich Robinson
>loved the game overall but after a certain point (after my lich got GM
>Water) the game took about 7 hours to finish. Let me put a caveat on
>that. In the end I didn't fight most of the monster since (Plane of Fire,
>Plane of Water, Plane between Plane) you can just fly over most of them
>and since most don't fly, or fly really slow, you just avoid everything.
Too bad, those were these best battles in the game. Especially the
ambush at the plane of fire. I usually fly around enough to activate
all the monsters then go to turn-based mode; that makes it a fun
challenge. But boy are you right on it being too short.
The story was ok, it was the world I didn't like, it felt too small
and unimportant.
>5) I found in the end that might is better than magic. I generally used
>magic for transport, protection and healing. My basic strategy was to
>avoid monsters. Barring that I would just run up to the monster and kill
>him with one or two strikes with the Stormlance :)
I definitely agree. Spell points run out quick. I think most people
underestimate the knight in melee. My basic strategy was to charge
right up in their faces (late in the game that is). Once your knight
reaches level 25 or so, 100-150 damage and swinging twice as
fast as anyone else, that is great. It makes it easy to kill a bunch
of monsters quickly, just hit 'A' all the time (oh yeah, and throw a
Souldrinker if the enemy wears away enough of your hps.) About the
only thing he can't kill quickly are the Fear/Terror/Nightmare guys
(they seem resistant to physical attacks except from a dragon.)
>6) I liked the artifacts and relics (though they don't say that
>anymore). I found a ton of them. The most amusing thing I did was but
>the Light and Dark swords in the hand of my Dark Elf. I was hoping for
>something cataclysmic to happen but.......
There seemed a lot more artifacts and relics, in set locations. That
was good. On the flip side, dragons and other high-level monsters had
disappointing treasure on their corpses.
>7) I was kind of disappointed that the NWC office wasn't more of an easter
>egg. In 6 you either had to kill all the dragons or find the magic portal
>and then there was all sorts of neat stuff in the office to pillage. In 7
>you had to find the office which wasn't the easiest of things since it was
>it a tiny bottle. Now it just sits there on the Plane between Planes.
Maybe because a lot of people missed it? I can see them wanting to
make sure people could get to it. This was a bit too obvious, though,
me thinks.
>8) Tiny gripe. I wish Town Portal would portal to all the towns. This
>has been a gripe for a long time though. It's annoying in the end game
>when you have to rest for a couple of days just to get the coach to the
>Ironsand desert.
You bet. Generally, you spend the early levels learning the lay of the
land. Once you get to Town Portal, I think the tedium of figuring out
how to get from place to place should end. Plus, I hate having to see
a bunch of days pass all at once (5 to get to Murmurwoods). You can't
finish the game quickly like in M&M6 since each level trained is a
week (you could train a bunch of levels for 1 week in the old days),
but I still just have an aversion to seeing a bunch of days pass.
>1) Where is Eclipse?
Its in the Necromancer's Guild.
>2) How do you get the key to the Time Vault
Follow the obelisk puzzle. Unfortunately, its one of those right
place/right time puzzles. My end game save is July 21 (if you find all
the pieces, you'll see its a month too late), so I'd have to
waste 11 months to do it (and my past saves late enough in the game
all happened to be in the July-Novemberish region, go figure.)
>Overall another great Might and Magic game. Let's see what they can do
>with a new engine and I can't wait for HoMM IV
I though M&M7 was excellent, this one just didn't do it for me. I'm
just worried the new engine will mean lots less monsters on the screen
at once, which is what I really like.
--
------------------------------------------------------
Richard Robinson ri...@nombas.com
"There is no right. There is only power."
------------------------------------------------------
Shawn Gumbleton
Peter Seebach wrote:
>
> I was really confused by this; I can portal to Dagger Wound and Shadowspire,
> but nowhere else. Are they back to the "drink from the fountain" thing? If
> so, where's the !@#*! fountain for Rust?
Yep. There isn't one for Rust. Only Alvar, Ravenshore, Dagger Wound,
Balthazar's Lair, and Shadowspire. No Garrote Gorge, Murmurwoods, or
Rust available.
--Shawn
Shawn Gumbleton
--Shawn
Vij ABJ (ZipBreak)
> egg. In 6 you either had to kill all the dragons or find the magic portal
> and then there was all sorts of neat stuff in the office to pillage. In 7
> you had to find the office which wasn't the easiest of things since it was
> it a tiny bottle. Now it just sits there on the Plane between Planes.
What tiny bottle? I didn't find anything of that sort in MM7. Could you
spoil me with the details? I haven't finished it yet. I love the hack and
slash fun after the other games that I try not to finish an MM game until
the next version comes along. And since MM8 is here, I can go finish MM7.
:)
Vij
Peter Seebach
Shawn Gumbleton <gu...@DELETETHIS.ak.net> wrote:
>Yep. There isn't one for Rust. Only Alvar, Ravenshore, Dagger Wound,
>Balthazar's Lair, and Shadowspire. No Garrote Gorge, Murmurwoods, or
>Rust available.
I haven't been able to get Alvar to show up on my list. What am I missing?
I guess maybe I haven't been there *SINCE* I got TP in my spell book...
I've gotten pretty far without ever using overland travel, but I think I have
to try it now to go to Murmurwoods.
George Ruof
>In article <38C853AF...@ak.net>,
>Shawn Gumbleton <gu...@DELETETHIS.ak.net> wrote:
>>Yep. There isn't one for Rust. Only Alvar, Ravenshore, Dagger Wound,
>>Balthazar's Lair, and Shadowspire. No Garrote Gorge, Murmurwoods, or
>>Rust available.
>
>I haven't been able to get Alvar to show up on my list. What am I missing?
>I guess maybe I haven't been there *SINCE* I got TP in my spell book...
You must drink from the fountain once you get there to be able to go
back.
--
George Ruof
gr...@pacificnet.net
Sheitan
You won't find it until the very end.....
*spoiler*
*spoiler*
Its near a sunken ship on the underwater map east of Avlee that you have to
go to to find the Lincoln. Its called the City in a Bottle.
- Sheitan
Ken Rice
>
>
>> > 7) I was kind of disappointed that the NWC office wasn't more of an
>> > easter egg. In 6 you either had to kill all the dragons or find the magic
>> > portal and then there was all sorts of neat stuff in the office to
>> > pillage. In 7 you had to find the office which wasn't the easiest of
>> > things since it was it a tiny bottle. Now it just sits there on the Plane
>> > between Planes.
>> What tiny bottle? I didn't find anything of that sort in MM7. Could you
>> spoil me with the details? I haven't finished it yet. I love the hack
>> and slash fun after the other games that I try not to finish an MM game
>> until the next version comes along. And since MM8 is here, I can go finish
>> MM7.
>You won't find it until the very end.....
>*spoiler*
>*spoiler*
>Its near a sunken ship on the underwater map east of Avlee that you have to
>go to to find the Lincoln. Its called the City in a Bottle.
It is called the Temple in a Bottle.
--
Ken Rice -=:=- kennrice (AT) erols (DOT) com
http://www.erols.com/kennrice = Concentration Camp made of LEGO bricks
http://members.tripod.com/~kennrice = Maps of Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2,
= Prophecy of the Shadow, Savage Empire &
= Crusaders of Dark Savant.
http://members.xoom.com/CWRTDC = Civil War Round Table of DC
Novocaine
Rich Robinson <ri...@joust.nombas.com> wrote in message
news:8a975j$f2a$1...@joust.nombas.com...
> In article <8a8vb1$4ve$1...@news2.isis.unc.edu>,
> Jeff Dai <d...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
> >1) Where is Eclipse?
>
> Its in the Necromancer's Guild.
>
cant find it can u spoil me please (maybe i have low perception? master at
8 )
> >2) How do you get the key to the Time Vault
>
> Follow the obelisk puzzle. Unfortunately, its one of those right
> place/right time puzzles. My end game save is July 21 (if you find all
> the pieces, you'll see its a month too late), so I'd have to
> waste 11 months to do it (and my past saves late enough in the game
> all happened to be in the July-Novemberish region, go figure.)
>
I read the obelisk puzzle and I cant understand , something with unicorn I m
totaly confused I must ask u to tell me bout this, pretty please with sugar
on top
Sheitan
> >> What tiny bottle? I didn't find anything of that sort in MM7. Could
you
> >> spoil me with the details? I haven't finished it yet. I love the hack
> >> and slash fun after the other games that I try not to finish an MM game
> >> until the next version comes along. And since MM8 is here, I can go
finish
> >> MM7.
>
> >You won't find it until the very end.....
>
>
> >*spoiler*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >*spoiler*
>
>
> >Its near a sunken ship on the underwater map east of Avlee that you have
to
> >go to to find the Lincoln. Its called the City in a Bottle.
>
> It is called the Temple in a Bottle.
<shrug> close enough, its been a while.
- Sheitan
Ykalon Dragon
>
> > 7) I was kind of disappointed that the NWC office wasn't more of an easter
> > egg. In 6 you either had to kill all the dragons or find the magic portal
> > and then there was all sorts of neat stuff in the office to pillage. In 7
> > you had to find the office which wasn't the easiest of things since it was
> > it a tiny bottle. Now it just sits there on the Plane between Planes.
>
> spoil me with the details? I haven't finished it yet. I love the hack and
> slash fun after the other games that I try not to finish an MM game until
> the next version comes along. And since MM8 is here, I can go finish MM7.
>
> Vij
You can't find the bottle until near the end. It's near the shipwreck
(which is in the same map you'll find the Lincoln).
--
My games for trade http://ugtz.com/users/Patrik.html
ICQ # 45086408
Peter Seebach
George Ruof <gr...@pacificnet.net> wrote:
>You must drink from the fountain once you get there to be able to go
>back.
It looks like you have to do this after learning the spell, but maybe I just
never drank in Alvar. :)
ARGH! Where's the !#*!@ Nosferatu quest?
Catalyst
Peter Seebach wrote:
> In article <40AD4F24933FDF6B.EF44A6F3...@lp.airnews.net>,
> George Ruof <gr...@pacificnet.net> wrote:
> >You must drink from the fountain once you get there to be able to go
> >back.
>
> It looks like you have to do this after learning the spell, but maybe I just
> never drank in Alvar. :)
>
> ARGH! Where's the !#*!@ Nosferatu quest?
>
It's in Twilight. He (the vampire) is in a house near the temple. Not the block
above the temple, but the next one over. He is also the guy to go to for necro
promotions after the first one.
Rich Robinson
Novocaine <frano.p...@zg.tel.hr> wrote:
>> >1) Where is Eclipse?
>>
>> Its in the Necromancer's Guild.
>>
>
>cant find it can u spoil me please (maybe i have low perception? master at
>8 )
Its in one of the chests, just hack up all the Necromancers and search
them.
>> >2) How do you get the key to the Time Vault
>>
>> Follow the obelisk puzzle. Unfortunately, its one of those right
>> place/right time puzzles. My end game save is July 21 (if you find all
>> the pieces, you'll see its a month too late), so I'd have to
>> waste 11 months to do it (and my past saves late enough in the game
>> all happened to be in the July-Novemberish region, go figure.)
>>
>
>I read the obelisk puzzle and I cant understand , something with unicorn I m
>totaly confused I must ask u to tell me bout this, pretty please with sugar
>on top
I don't know where it is. The obelisk puzzle (which you just read once
you get the clues, it just leaves out the spaces) says that the
Unicorn King has old Thorn's key among his subjects, and that it
appears while the sun is shining on midsummer day. (That's from
memory, so it isn't word for word.) The only Unicorns (i.e. a Unicorn
King's subjects) in the game are in Murmurwoods, midsummer's day is
June 21st. But it doesn't give you an _exact_ location or time, or if
you have to do anything in particular. If you do find it, make sure to post
for everyone else. Having finished the game, I don't feel like taking
my ending party and doing nothing for 11 months to get June 21st to
roll back around...
BTW, make sure you click on all the obelisks, the puzzles usually
can't be solved if you don't, even if you know where you are
supposed to look.
Catalyst
Rich Robinson wrote:
> >
> >I read the obelisk puzzle and I cant understand , something with unicorn I m
> >totaly confused I must ask u to tell me bout this, pretty please with sugar
> >on top
>
> I don't know where it is. The obelisk puzzle (which you just read once
> you get the clues, it just leaves out the spaces) says that the
> Unicorn King has old Thorn's key among his subjects, and that it
> appears while the sun is shining on midsummer day. (That's from
> memory, so it isn't word for word.) The only Unicorns (i.e. a Unicorn
> King's subjects) in the game are in Murmurwoods, midsummer's day is
> June 21st. But it doesn't give you an _exact_ location or time, or if
> you have to do anything in particular. If you do find it, make sure to post
> for everyone else. Having finished the game, I don't feel like taking
> my ending party and doing nothing for 11 months to get June 21st to
> roll back around...
>
> BTW, make sure you click on all the obelisks, the puzzles usually
> can't be solved if you don't, even if you know where you are
> supposed to look.
June 24 is midsummer's day. The unicorn king does indeed show in Murmurwoods. I
found him at about 11 am. You get an artifact mace, dagger, and ax out of the
deal. In addition, there are eight or so pieces of stalt ore in the vault.
George Ruof
>In article <40AD4F24933FDF6B.EF44A6F3...@lp.airnews.net>,
>George Ruof <gr...@pacificnet.net> wrote:
>>You must drink from the fountain once you get there to be able to go
>>back.
>
>It looks like you have to do this after learning the spell, but maybe I just
>never drank in Alvar. :)
Nope, it has nothing to do with knowing the spell.
--
George Ruof
gr...@pacificnet.net
Peter Seebach
Rich Robinson <ri...@joust.nombas.com> wrote:
>Its in one of the chests, just hack up all the Necromancers and search
>them.
I was never able to open the doors, except for the one going to the
transformer.
RWGibson13
>I definitely agree. Spell points run out quick. I think most people
>underestimate the knight in melee.<
I think most people understimate melee in general. In this particular game,
both trolls and knights can do a LOT of damage once you get them to high
levels. Just like the knight can wield two weapons, so can a troll (GM
mace/master sword). Put two or more of them in the same party and just whoop up
on everything. I can't imagine fighting those hordes of crystal dragons any
other way. The ruby ones have almost 2000 hit points and are resistant to
*everything*. Oh, yeah, and some of them can paralyze :-)
> My basic strategy was to charge
>right up in their faces (late in the game that is). Once your knight
>reaches level 25 or so, 100-150 damage and swinging twice as
>fast as anyone else, that is great. It makes it easy to kill a bunch
>of monsters quickly, just hit 'A' all the time (oh yeah, and throw a
>Souldrinker if the enemy wears away enough of your hps.) About the
>only thing he can't kill quickly are the Fear/Terror/Nightmare guys
>(they seem resistant to physical attacks except from a dragon.)<
They're not just resistant to physical attacks, they're *immune*. Whatever
damage your melee did it was with the magical effects of the weapons <g>
I ran through the game with a vampire just to have GM ID Monster (I'm curious
of this type of thing) and that levitation (lava just plain pisses me off :-).
If you have a cleric or sorc in the party, vampires are pretty much redundant
otherwise :-(
The various elementals are resistant to everything *except* their opposing
elements, melee weapons and spirit magic. That makes swords, maces and the
like the best things to use (and spirit lash from your cleric - the only time
I've ever found a use for that spell - kind of like ring of fire in M&M 6, but
even more effective ;-)
I'm not sure, but I think the dragon attacks are buggy. They shouldn't be able
to affect
the nightmares/terrors in melee unless the game considers dragons magical in
and of themselves (a possiblity). But I've heard reports from at least one
other person that there might be problems with the dragons. It'll be
interesting to see what (if anything) gets altered on any patches from
NWC...this is the first game I've managed to play all the way through *without*
even one crash.
My overall impression of the game is that it was fun up until the endgame (the
crystal and beyond). Once you get used to casting GM invisibilty and flight
(as well as Souldrinker), the rest of the game is no challenge at all...
If I replay it, I'll do it without a necro, maybe using a vampire instead. The
most fun I had playing M&M6 was with no sorcerer or cleric, just one lonely
druid doing both jobs <g>
But I still gotta have a troll - I like that paralyzation attack too much <g>
RWG (plus, I'll try that unicorn thing)
To all you young ladies, who dream of tomorrrows
While you are listening, these words will I say:
Cling to today, with its joy and its sorrows
You'll need all your memories when youth melts away.
The Late, Great Townes Van Zandt
Jason McCullough
>Novocaine <frano.p...@zg.tel.hr> wrote:
>
>>> >1) Where is Eclipse?
>>>
>>> Its in the Necromancer's Guild.
>>>
>>
>>cant find it can u spoil me please (maybe i have low perception? master at
>>8 )
>
>
>them.
>
>
>>>
>>> Follow the obelisk puzzle. Unfortunately, its one of those right
>>> place/right time puzzles. My end game save is July 21 (if you find all
>>> the pieces, you'll see its a month too late), so I'd have to
>>> waste 11 months to do it (and my past saves late enough in the game
>>> all happened to be in the July-Novemberish region, go figure.)
>>>
>>
>>totaly confused I must ask u to tell me bout this, pretty please with sugar
>>on top
>
>
>I don't know where it is. The obelisk puzzle (which you just read once
>you get the clues, it just leaves out the spaces) says that the
>Unicorn King has old Thorn's key among his subjects, and that it
>appears while the sun is shining on midsummer day. (That's from
>memory, so it isn't word for word.) The only Unicorns (i.e. a Unicorn
>King's subjects) in the game are in Murmurwoods, midsummer's day is
>June 21st. But it doesn't give you an _exact_ location or time, or if
>you have to do anything in particular. If you do find it, make sure to post
>for everyone else. Having finished the game, I don't feel like taking
>my ending party and doing nothing for 11 months to get June 21st to
>roll back around...
>
>BTW, make sure you click on all the obelisks, the puzzles usually
>can't be solved if you don't, even if you know where you are
>supposed to look.
The Unicorn King appears around 10:00 a.m. on the 24th of June, in
Murmurwoods. If you explore the map, a little north of the center is
a giant arrow, next to a well. Kill everything nearby that well on
the 23rd, and then wait until the next day. The Unicorn King should
appear (he's pretty difficult) and with everything else dead and
wizard eye, you should have no difficulty finding him.
However, to trigger his appearance, I'm pretty sure you have to do the
following:
1. Have all 10 obelisk notes appear in your journal.2
2. Talk to the pirate in Regna who gives you some sort of "quest" to
find the treasure. I think. He's on the northwest island, if I
remember correctly, but he could be talking about something else.
To respond by email, remove "blort" from the front of my email
address.
blort...@ou.edu
Jason McCullough
".....to identify Flavor Flav as a clown with a clock is to lose sight
of Public Enemy's goal to inspire, entertain and educate."
(from www.public-enemy.com)
Jason McCullough
>>them.
>
>transformer.
It's picky about them. Just hit escape and keep pressing forward and
space to open them.
Alternatively, you might try butchering a necromancer or two and try
it then.
Peter Seebach
Jason McCullough <blort...@ou.edu> wrote:
>>I was never able to open the doors, except for the one going to the
>>transformer.
>It's picky about them. Just hit escape and keep pressing forward and
>space to open them.
Weird. I killed all the necromancers, and it still kept showing me the guard
saying members-only.
>Alternatively, you might try butchering a necromancer or two and try
>it then.
ROFL.
Rich Robinson
RWGibson13 <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>I definitely agree. Spell points run out quick. I think most people
>>underestimate the knight in melee.<
>
>I think most people understimate melee in general. In this particular game,
>both trolls and knights can do a LOT of damage once you get them to high
>levels. Just like the knight can wield two weapons, so can a troll (GM
>mace/master sword). Put two or more of them in the same party and just whoop up
>on everything. I can't imagine fighting those hordes of crystal dragons any
>other way. The ruby ones have almost 2000 hit points and are resistant to
>*everything*. Oh, yeah, and some of them can paralyze :-)
I don't like the Troll - it isn't the two weapons, it is the GM
armsmaster, especially that 'second' bonus of lowered recovery time.
The knight just swings *so* quickly.
BTW, going right up in the face of the crystal critters and
shrapmetalling them is quite effective. Well, actually, its quite
effective against anything except Necromancers.
>The various elementals are resistant to everything *except* their opposing
>elements, melee weapons and spirit magic. That makes swords, maces and the
>like the best things to use (and spirit lash from your cleric - the only time
>I've ever found a use for that spell - kind of like ring of fire in M&M 6, but
>even more effective ;-)
Those elementals have way too many hps to bother with weak spells like
spirit lash. I never noticed their resistance, because by the time I
got to them, archery, melee, and dark magic (+ summoning wisps) was
the only thing I bothered with.
>I'm not sure, but I think the dragon attacks are buggy. They shouldn't be able
>to affect
>the nightmares/terrors in melee unless the game considers dragons magical in
>and of themselves (a possiblity). But I've heard reports from at least one
>other person that there might be problems with the dragons. It'll be
>interesting to see what (if anything) gets altered on any patches from
>NWC...this is the first game I've managed to play all the way through *without*
>even one crash.
I think they are more powerful than intended. From my experience, the
dragon always hits (in turn-based mode), and always hits for full
damage against anything.
>My overall impression of the game is that it was fun up until the endgame (the
>crystal and beyond). Once you get used to casting GM invisibilty and flight
>(as well as Souldrinker), the rest of the game is no challenge at all...
I never used invisibility, on principle - I *want* to fight
things. However, by late game the monsters are pushovers. For fun,
at the end, I fought the plane between planes real time (I do
everything turn-based normally), just flying around from pocket of
monsters to pocket of monsters and jamming the 'A' key constantly.
One of my characters commented "Too easy..." and I couldn't help
but agree. Sigh.
RWGibson13
>Just like the knight can wield two weapons, so can a troll (GM
>>mace/master sword). Put two or more of them in the same party and just whoop
>up on everything. I can't imagine fighting those hordes of crystal dragons any
>>other way. The ruby ones have almost 2000 hit points and are resistant to
>>*everything*. Oh, yeah, and some of them can paralyze :-)
>I don't like the Troll - it isn't the two weapons, it is the GM
>armsmaster, especially that 'second' bonus of lowered recovery time.
>The knight just swings *so* quickly.<
Heh, and two or three trolls with GM mace kill or paralyze every round or two.
Even Old Loeb was paralyzed after the second round of combat... I dunno if it's
a bug or not, but I found even magically resistant (or immune) critters
paralyzed after every round or two (this with only a 20-30 percent chance).
>BTW, going right up in the face of the crystal critters and
>shrapmetalling them is quite effective. Well, actually, its quite
>effective against anything except Necromancers.<
I tried that but I just don't like casting spells in real-time combat. I find
setting and changing the quickspells to be more hassle than it's worth. By
that time, I was only dropping out of real-time to heal for a round or two,
then back to the fray...
>>The various elementals are resistant to everything *except* their opposing
>>elements, melee weapons and spirit magic. That makes swords, maces and the
like the best things to use (and spirit lash from your cleric - the only
>time I've ever found a use for that spell - kind of like ring of fire in M&M
6,
>but even more effective ;-)
>
>Those elementals have way too many hps to bother with weak spells like
>spirit lash.<
Spirit lash isn't exactly weak anymore. They've made it kind of like prismatic
light, only it affects everything on all sides of the caster. It was doing a
good 50-80 points to *every* elemental around in every round. A lot more
damage than my cleric could have done in melee (even with that mace of the
sun). Unfortunately, I only used it a few times because, as I mention above, I
fiind setting and changing quickspells to be a hassle.
> I never noticed their resistance, because by the time I
>got to them, archery, melee, and dark magic (+ summoning wisps) was
>the only thing I bothered with.<
Different strokes, I suppose. I still find archery in M&M games to be the
biggest crutch in CRPG gaming. Now if they came up with an arrow limit or
something...
Some find doing things like playing four knights in M&M6 or 7 to be the
ultimate challenge. I think it's to get through any of the three *without*
ever touching a bow <g>
>>My overall impression of the game is that it was fun up until the endgame
>(the
>>crystal and beyond). Once you get used to casting GM invisibilty and flight
>>(as well as Souldrinker), the rest of the game is no challenge at all...
>
>I never used invisibility, on principle - I *want* to fight
>things.<
Good for you. I'm going to try that in my next replay, and not using a necro or
cleric (no dark or light magic) past Ravensport. The game is short enough for
me to try it without getting bored...
> However, by late game the monsters are pushovers. For fun,
>at the end, I fought the plane between planes real time (I do
>everything turn-based normally), just flying around from pocket of
>monsters to pocket of monsters and jamming the 'A' key constantly.
>One of my characters commented "Too easy..." and I couldn't help
>but agree. Sigh.<
Yep. Unfortunately, I forgot to save at that point. I was already bored and
in a hurry to see the endgame animation. Maybe on the next replay...
RWG (who thinks the submarine animation is the highlight of the game :-)
Panda on Skates
Ykalon Dragon <yka...@SoftHome.net> wrote:
> "Vij ABJ (ZipBreak)" wrote:
> >
>
> You can't find the bottle until near the end. It's near the shipwreck
> (which is in the same map you'll find the Lincoln).
Interesting! Looks like it's time to dig up my old saved game :)
BTW, I was trying to figure out how to enter the ship... and I thought
it looked like Battlestar Galactica (I love that series), and perhaps
I go in like one of those Vipers... :) Got me feeling really nostalgic
> --
> My games for trade http://ugtz.com/users/Patrik.html
> ICQ # 45086408
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rich Robinson
RWGibson13 <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote:
>>BTW, going right up in the face of the crystal critters and
>>shrapmetalling them is quite effective. Well, actually, its quite
>>effective against anything except Necromancers.<
>
>I tried that but I just don't like casting spells in real-time combat. I find
>setting and changing the quickspells to be more hassle than it's worth. By
>that time, I was only dropping out of real-time to heal for a round or two,
>then back to the fray...
Yeah, I play entirely turn-based, to each his own. I like to plan
my strategy, cast whatever spell I like at my leisure, plot my
movements. You can actually have some real decisions. Like, do I
move close to let my Shrapmetal and Knights have a shot, or do
I move away so my wisps/reanimated enemies are the closest target,
thus the enemy attacks them and takes heat off me for a while.
>>Those elementals have way too many hps to bother with weak spells like
>>spirit lash.<
>
>Spirit lash isn't exactly weak anymore. They've made it kind of like prismatic
>light, only it affects everything on all sides of the caster. It was doing a
>good 50-80 points to *every* elemental around in every round. A lot more
>damage than my cleric could have done in melee (even with that mace of the
>sun). Unfortunately, I only used it a few times because, as I mention above, I
>fiind setting and changing quickspells to be a hassle.
Yeah, but 50-80 points is child's play. My knight usually swings 3
times per round in the endgame (a round being the time between your
little chances to move in turn-based), doing about 150 damage per
stroke (and hitting most of the time). I guess I have a different
'scale'. When even a toxic cloud will be doing 150-200 damage (i.e
your cheap spell), shrapmetal can easily do 500 or 600 in one hellish
blast, dragon breath can do 200 or 300 to a bunch of monsters close
togethor, and Souldrinker doesn't do a heck of a lot of damage but it
does it to every monster in sight (oh yeah, and gives those hps to
you.) With that kind of damage potential, 50-80 seems like a drop in
the bucket. Besides, my Cleric's job is to cast Heal on the weakest
character each round. If I don't need him to cast the Heal, then the
combat is not challenging, so I probably don't need spells at all,
just 'A', 'A', 'A', and soon the knight cut all enemies to pieces with
a little help from everyone else.
>Different strokes, I suppose. I still find archery in M&M games to be the
>biggest crutch in CRPG gaming. Now if they came up with an arrow limit or
>something...
Archery really is broken in M&M, but really so in realtime, since you
can just bob and weave, dodging most of the enemy fire. I prefer to
get in the monster's face and show them "who's boss." I find that more
fun. Its the same reason I like to run through an area until I've
activated a bunch of monsters, then hit enter for turn-based mode, its
more challenging and fun.
>Some find doing things like playing four knights in M&M6 or 7 to be the
>ultimate challenge. I think it's to get through any of the three *without*
>ever touching a bow <g>
Heh, not having Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon wouldn't cut it for me,
after I've explored the world, I don't want to be bothered with taking
forever moving between areas (and referring to my chart to determine
what route to take.) In M&M8, I'd say a party of knights
would actually be quite strong, lots of HPs, damage potential through
the roof, and very few monsters have any special attacks. 4 Knights
plus a Necromancer (for movement/Souldrinker/Alchemy), heck that
probably would work well! I could almost do 5 knights, but lack of
healing would mean retreating to inn/temples a lot, and combined with
lack of movement spells, I don't think I have the patience.
>>I never used invisibility, on principle - I *want* to fight
>>things.<
>
>Good for you. I'm going to try that in my next replay, and not using a necro or
>cleric (no dark or light magic) past Ravensport. The game is short enough for
>me to try it without getting bored...
I could do without the Cleric, though I'd really miss Day of the
Gods/Day of Protection/Hour of Power. I couldn't do without the
Necro. No movement spells and no GM alchemy (Divine Power potions),
that would make the game a bit too tedious for my tastes.
>Yep. Unfortunately, I forgot to save at that point. I was already bored and
>in a hurry to see the endgame animation. Maybe on the next replay...
>
>RWG (who thinks the submarine animation is the highlight of the game :-)
I absolutely _loved_ the 'join the dragons' cut scene. That rocked.
William
(snip)
> Balthazar's Lair - This puzzle would have been even better if
> there hadn't been the scroll telling you which order to
> pull the levers
I agree. I would have liked to have seen some way to figure it out
logically, rather than by trial and error, because all that would have
led to was save, load, save, load... But instead there was the scroll
that plainly said how to do it. Where's the fun in that?
It seems like it's been forever since there was a CRPG that had puzzles
that were actually tough to solve. I remember Wizardry 7 - now that had
some difficult puzzles. I actually got stumped in a couple of places in
that game and had to wait until my friends could help me out.
I miss games like that. It seems that these days, the CRPG developers
definition of "puzzle" is "make them hunt all over for the button
that's the same color and texture as the wall". (Yes, I know MM8 had
the riddles, but they were easy.)
Peter Seebach
>Even Old Loeb was paralyzed after the second round of combat... I dunno if it's
>a bug or not, but I found even magically resistant (or immune) critters
>paralyzed after every round or two (this with only a 20-30 percent chance).
Not bad.
>Spirit lash isn't exactly weak anymore. They've made it kind of like prismatic
>light, only it affects everything on all sides of the caster. It was doing a
>good 50-80 points to *every* elemental around in every round.
Wow! What's the range like?
Peter Seebach
William <willi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <8a8vb1$4ve$1...@news2.isis.unc.edu>,
> Jeff Dai <d...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>> Balthazar's Lair - This puzzle would have been even better if
>> there hadn't been the scroll telling you which order to
>> pull the levers
>I agree. I would have liked to have seen some way to figure it out
>logically, rather than by trial and error, because all that would have
>led to was save, load, save, load... But instead there was the scroll
>that plainly said how to do it. Where's the fun in that?
Mostly agreed. I'd have been a little happier if the scroll had given
instructions for figuring it out ("move 3 to 10, 10 to 9, ...")
Joel Mathis
>I miss games like that. It seems that these days, the CRPG developers
>definition of "puzzle" is "make them hunt all over for the button
>that's the same color and texture as the wall". (Yes, I know MM8 had
>the riddles, but they were easy.)
That's a tough one to call for me. A good puzzle is a joy to
encounter and makes you proud when you can figure it out. On the
other hand, a bad puzzle (or sometimes just any puzzle thrown in for
no good reason) can derail a game awfully fast. Put me down in the
"more puzzles" catagory, but I don't want to see them overwelming
games (unless you're role-playing a crossword enthusist).
Joel Mathis
See the Hot Sheet at Gone Gold for my take on the day's news
http://www.gonegold.com/hot
Gerry Quinn
>Rumor has it that William <willi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>I miss games like that. It seems that these days, the CRPG developers
>>definition of "puzzle" is "make them hunt all over for the button
>>that's the same color and texture as the wall". (Yes, I know MM8 had
>>the riddles, but they were easy.)
>
>That's a tough one to call for me. A good puzzle is a joy to
>encounter and makes you proud when you can figure it out. On the
>other hand, a bad puzzle (or sometimes just any puzzle thrown in for
>no good reason) can derail a game awfully fast. Put me down in the
>"more puzzles" catagory, but I don't want to see them overwelming
>games (unless you're role-playing a crossword enthusist).
>
Puzzles should be for presents - not to get through key parts of the
game. In other words, you should get a cool sword or something for
solving a puzzle, but it shouldn't usually be on the main path.
Dungeon Master and its sequels did puzzles really well, IMO.
- Gerry Quinn
William
joelm...@gonegold.com (Joel Mathis) wrote:
> Rumor has it that William <willi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >I miss games like that. It seems that these days, the CRPG developers
> >definition of "puzzle" is "make them hunt all over for the button
> >that's the same color and texture as the wall". (Yes, I know MM8 had
> >the riddles, but they were easy.)
>
> That's a tough one to call for me. A good puzzle is a joy to
> encounter and makes you proud when you can figure it out. On the
> other hand, a bad puzzle (or sometimes just any puzzle thrown in for
> no good reason) can derail a game awfully fast.
Well, yeah. There is that. But times have changed for gaming. Getting
stumped used to mean that you might not be able to continue with the
game. These days, if you get stumped, you can just look up the answer on
the net.
> Put me down in the
> "more puzzles" catagory, but I don't want to see them overwelming
> games (unless you're role-playing a crossword enthusist).
I agree that they shouldn't overwhelm games. I mean, if I wanted to play
a puzzle game I wouldn't be playing a CRPG. Like I said, I felt that
Wizardry 7 had about the right number of puzzles relative to the rest of
its gameplay.
Peacedog1
>That's a tough one to call for me. A good puzzle is a joy to
>encounter and makes you proud when you can figure it out. On the
>other hand, a bad puzzle (or sometimes just any puzzle thrown in for
>no good reason) can derail a game awfully fast. Put me down in the
>"more puzzles" catagory, but I don't want to see them overwelming
>games (unless you're role-playing a crossword enthusist).
>
I'd have to agree with you Joel. While more puzzles wouldn't bother me, I
don't like "bad puzzles" as you catagorized them. Lever pulling can be lame,
and riddles can be dangerous. I also hate being prevented from progessing
along the story line by some bizzare puzzle I can't figure out. A game should
flow. Perhaps tough/obscure puzzles should be reserved for bonus quests and
hidden stuff.
RWGibson13
>Yeah, I play entirely turn-based, to each his own<
I generally go turn based in the early parts of the M&M games, when there is a
very real chance that characters could be killed or disabled. In this one (in
particular) there are very few of those times, I found. Certainly by the
elemental planes, your characters are so tough that real-time seemed the way to
go. I get bored easily and turn-based combats can take a loooong time :-)
In a magic-rich party, I'd probably use it much more often. This party had two
trolls with each over 900 hit points and GM regeneration (and ressurection
scrolls everywhere), so even if characters accidently died in real-time, it
didn't take but a few rounds to heal them back up.
Don't get me wrong, I *loved* the turn-based combat of the old Wizardry games
and you won't find me playing a 3-d shooter anytime soon, but this particular
M&M game seemed particularly suited to real-time. I hope it's not TOO much a
trend...
> I like to plan
>my strategy, cast whatever spell I like at my leisure, plot my
>movements. You can actually have some real decisions. Like, do I
>move close to let my Shrapmetal and Knights have a shot, or do
>I move away so my wisps/reanimated enemies are the closest target,<
The latter is something I've not tried yet in #8. I did both in #7 playing
both light and dark parties, but niether spell seemed terribly effective. I
recall summoning light elementals in the arena in #7 only to have them last two
rounds *at the most* before being destroyed. Didn't seem to be worth
bothering with. Have they improved them? As for reanimate, it never seemed to
work at all the few times I tried it in #7, but I might've been doing it wrong.
>>Spirit lash isn't exactly weak anymore. They've made it kind of like
>prismatic
>>light, only it affects everything on all sides of the caster. It was doing a
>>good 50-80 points to *every* elemental around in every round. <
>
>Yeah, but 50-80 points is child's play.<
heh, it isn't for a cleric who isn't going to heal anyone who isn't hurt.
Otherwise he wastes his turn twiddling his thumbs waiting for someone to get
hurt <g> It at least gives him something to do while everyone else is
squashing things...and again, that can be 50-80 points to 9 or 10 elementals
all at the same time, whether they're facing your party or behind your party.
Just like the old "ring of fire" spell in #6. Unfortunately, I'm not sure of
the range... I know it affected (killed) retreating monsters who were almost
out of hit points
but I'm not the best judge of perspective.
> Besides, my Cleric's job is to cast Heal on the weakest
>character each round. If I don't need him to cast the Heal, then the
>combat is not challenging, so I probably don't need spells at all,
>just 'A', 'A', 'A', and soon the knight cut all enemies to pieces with
>a little help from everyone else.<
That's pretty much the stage I was at at the time. But I get carried away and
tend to jump into swarms of elementals, so even a combat that shouldn't be
challenging ends up that way <g>
>>Good for you. I'm going to try that in my next replay, and not using a necro
>or cleric (no dark or light magic) past Ravensport. The game is short enough
>for me to try it without getting bored...
>
>I could do without the Cleric, though I'd really miss Day of the
>Gods/Day of Protection/Hour of Power. I couldn't do without the
>Necro. No movement spells and no GM alchemy (Divine Power potions),
>that would make the game a bit too tedious for my tastes.<
Not quite. The Dark Elf can master elemental magic, which means town portal,
but no beacon. Just enough to be challenging, but not a crutch (like Lloyd's
is often used for) to get out of tight jams. I played through #7 without either
a cleric OR sorcerer (just a lone druid doing double duty). It was certainly a
test. The Vampire can master clerical spells, which gives you protection from
magic (just not from death) and raise dead (but not ressurection). And it only
takes a master in alchemy to make Divine Power and Divine Healing potions (and
both vampires and dragons can do it).
Just looking over the skills list by character class shows how overpowering the
sorcer...err...necro STILL is compared to all the other classes. It can GM 8
skills, the only other that comes close is the knight at 6 skills. Finishing
without a knight, lich, cleric or dragon - now THAT would be a challenge.
>>RWG (who thinks the submarine animation is the highlight of the game :-)
>
>I absolutely _loved_ the 'join the dragons' cut scene. That rocked.<
Yeah, it was cool, but meaningless. The knight town was still there in the
morning <g>
RWG (but the dragon looked cooler at the council table :-)
Sheitan
When confronted with these I am either overcome with boredom or go look for
a spoiler.
- Sheitan
William <willi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8amdom$d1p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8a8vb1$4ve$1...@news2.isis.unc.edu>,
> Jeff Dai <d...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> > Balthazar's Lair - This puzzle would have been even better if
> > there hadn't been the scroll telling you which order to
> > pull the levers
>
> I agree. I would have liked to have seen some way to figure it out
> logically, rather than by trial and error, because all that would have
> led to was save, load, save, load... But instead there was the scroll
> that plainly said how to do it. Where's the fun in that?
>
> It seems like it's been forever since there was a CRPG that had puzzles
> that were actually tough to solve. I remember Wizardry 7 - now that had
> some difficult puzzles. I actually got stumped in a couple of places in
> that game and had to wait until my friends could help me out.
>
> I miss games like that. It seems that these days, the CRPG developers
> definition of "puzzle" is "make them hunt all over for the button
> that's the same color and texture as the wall". (Yes, I know MM8 had
> the riddles, but they were easy.)
>
>