Bethesda/Sir-Tech-What a joke

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Rollo the Talking Dragon

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them are
RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a joke.
They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to Daggerfall,
they go adventure/action on us!
Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games coming
out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really laughable as
well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter of 1998.
Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it would be a
higher priority.

<=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>

<<UDIC>>
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http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

Matthew W Buckley

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg: 23-Jul-97
Bethesda/Sir-Tech-What a joke by Rollo t. T. Dragon@voice
>
> I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
> releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them are
> RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a joke.
> They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to Daggerfall,
> they go adventure/action on us!

It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."

_ _ __
/ \/ \ | | | | |__| | | /__ Read it upside <*>
| | | \__|___|__ | |__ | | \ down!
| | | __ | __|___|__ | | |
| | __| | | | \ | | | ###################################
| | |__| | | | | \_/\_/ # Matthew Buckley: sau...@cmu.edu #
###################################
Homepage URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr/sauron/www/

Rollo the Talking Dragon

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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If you are talking about D.W. Bradley, that was YEARS ago.
--
<=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>

<<UDIC>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine

^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn

http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

Dragon Master <antiju...@cyberpromo.spam.sux> wrote in article
<33dc29c1...@news.zippo.com>...
> Hey gumby don't blame Sirtech Wiz 8 hit a major major snag here in Oz
> when the principal storyman dissapeared and the project was abandoned.
>
>
> On 23 Jul 1997 12:58:59 GMT, "Rollo the Talking Dragon"


> <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:
>
> "I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
> "releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them
> are
> "RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a
> joke.
> "They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to
> Daggerfall,
> "they go adventure/action on us!

> "Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games
> coming
> "out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really
> laughable as
> "well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter of
> 1998.
> "Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it would
> be a
> "higher priority.
> "
> " <=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>
> "
> " <<UDIC>>
>
"---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> "----------
> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine
> "
> "^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
> " CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> "
> "http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm
> "
>
"---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> "-----------------------
> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn
> "
> "http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview
>

> Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will
> almost certainly be able to breathe something nasty,
> either acid, fire, poison, or something equally
> unpleasant.
>

Jeff Pack

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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In article <01bc9766$f963fff0$797c67cf@ntw_quattrof>, "Rollo the Talking Dragon" <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:
>I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
>releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them are
>RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a joke.
>They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to Daggerfall,
>they go adventure/action on us!
>Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games coming
>out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really laughable as
>well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter of 1998.
>Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it would be a
>higher priority.

How dare they diversify their product line!

--
Jeff Pack (cu...@brown.edu) Brown University, Class of 1999
St. Anthony Hall, K'96 English and American Literature

Pithy quotes suck.

Dragon Master

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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Do you really want another Pathesda user pays beta test.

On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:22:05 -0400, Matthew W Buckley
<sau...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

"Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg: 23-Jul-97
"Bethesda/Sir-Tech-What a joke by Rollo t. T. Dragon@voice
">

"> I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
"> releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them
are
"> RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a
joke.
"> They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to
Daggerfall,
"> they go adventure/action on us!
"

"It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."
"
" _ _ __
"/ \/ \ | | | | |__| | | /__ Read it upside <*>
"| | | \__|___|__ | |__ | | \ down!
"| | | __ | __|___|__ | | |
"| | __| | | | \ | | | ###################################
"| | |__| | | | | \_/\_/ # Matthew Buckley: sau...@cmu.edu #
" ###################################
"Homepage URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr/sauron/www/

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Dragon Master

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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Hey gumby don't blame Sirtech Wiz 8 hit a major major snag here in Oz
when the principal storyman dissapeared and the project was abandoned.


On 23 Jul 1997 12:58:59 GMT, "Rollo the Talking Dragon"
<Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:

"I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
"releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them
are
"RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a
joke.
"They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to
Daggerfall,
"they go adventure/action on us!

"Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games
coming
"out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really
laughable as
"well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter of
1998.
"Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it would
be a
"higher priority.
"

" <=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>
"
" <<UDIC>>
"----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"----------
"Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine
"
"^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
" CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"
"http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm
"
"----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"-----------------------
"Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn
"
"http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Todd Howard

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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If you think we're abonding RPGs you're as dumb as you think we are. (I
wonder if that sounds right? g)

Bethesda is not abdonding RPGs. TES3 is coming..it's just a long way
off. REDGUARD may not be an RPG, but I garuantee it will have loads of
features that you'll want to see in future TES'. Full 3D characters,
with real personalities and things they do. Hand crafted landscapes with
real things to go out and find. No random, wish you were really doing
something important, wish people would say "hi" world in REDGUARD. And
it's not a pure "adventure". It is a complete hybrid. It's actually
structured a lot like an Ultima and is very very open. What does a real
fantasy town feel like and what is it like to run right out of it and
climb into the mountains and stumble upon some dwarven ruins? You'll see
in REDGUARD. This is one experience that Daggerfall (imho) was missing.

Todd Howard
Project Leader REDGUARD
Bethesda

Shdwbld

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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mark wrote:
>
> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:

>
> >On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
> >
> >>How dare they diversify their product line!
> >
> >LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
> >until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
> >and they were doing well. Look at them now.
> >
> >Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it diversification
> >if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out
> >losers? That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they
> >had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
> >it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
> >experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like
> >wizardry die on the vine was not too smart. I bet you work for a game
> >company don't you? In marketting? Advice like that has really done a
> >lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the
> >first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
> >idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
> >wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...
> >
> >So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
> >Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Oh god stop your damn whinning you babies and be happy they are still
> putting out any types of games to you constant bitching adolecent
> geeks. These are games people they are not meant to fight over they
> are meant to enjoy and if someone puts out a game you don't like don't
> fucking buy it but someone else might just like that game. If you
> don't like those full mo games then the best thing you can do is not
> buy those type of games and get on with your life. The time people
> spend on the net just bitching about crap makes you think the majority
> here need to get alife or even better a damn job.
And also, GET A JOB!
You should try to take your own advice.
This is the LAST time you will hear from me, I don's have time for this
crap.
CYA
--
LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone who sends me unsolicited/commercial e-mail will be
charged a $500 proofreading fee. Consider this official notification.
Failure to abide by this will result in legal action.

"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets
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Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable
by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is
greater,
for each violation."

Shdwbld

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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Okay PAL,
I have a few comments to make,
1. At least HIS message was properly spelt(whining not whinning)
2. Most RESPONSIBLE people have more to do than flame others
I just do this on my days off.
3. For games, To each their own. That is the only thing you were right
about.
4. If you think people should stop whining, look at your message and
tell me what the hell that is called. Can you say
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E?
CYA
ShadowBlade

Critical Bill

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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On 23 Jul 1997 12:58:59 GMT, "Rollo the Talking Dragon"
<Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:

>I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
>releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them are
>RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a joke.
>They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to Daggerfall,
>they go adventure/action on us!

Good luck to them. I hope they experience all the success that has
befallen Sir Tech with their immortal Wizardry: Nemesis adventure.

Diversifying isn't necessarily a bad thing, but neither is producing
games from your strength and for your core audience.


-
New "Gary Maguire" Movie Page

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mark

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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Craig Boulton

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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Nirnaeth

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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>On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:

>"lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the
>"first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
>"idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
>"wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...

How true. Don't support crappy companies, and they
will vanish. The fault of false ideas of this society
and civilasation.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
nirn...@deathsdoor.com UIN#1581292

Reach for the tears... they're raining from the sky...
so sad... unnumbered... so many... nothing just cry...
take my hand and walk with me... into the everblack...

Dale Beaver

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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"Rollo the Talking Dragon" <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:

>I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
>releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of them are
>RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is a joke.
>They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to Daggerfall,
>they go adventure/action on us!

The games you are talking about are Redguard and Battlespire,
and are seperate product lines based on the Elder Scrolls universe,
not replacements for their CRPG title. They have only started work on
Elder Scrolls 3, tentatively titled Morrowind. In fact, I wouldn't be
surprised if R. & B. aren't going to be testbeds for concepts they
want to go into Morrowind. Considering the lead time CRPG's need for
development, a few successful games that are 'kinda' RPG's in the
interim would help keep people interested, and may make up a bit for
the goofs in Daggerfall. Not to mention that it will blunt (slightly;
gamers have -good- memories about such things) the bad press that DF
got in some quarters.

>Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games coming
>out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really laughable as
>well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter of 1998.
>Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it would be a
>higher priority.

Hopefully in Sir-tech's case, experience won't be too costly a
teacher.

> <=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>
>

Dragon Master

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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How much will it cost to beta test it??

On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:34:28 -0400, Todd Howard <tho...@erols.com>
wrote:

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Jeff Pack

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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In article <33d6a0e0.2366354@news>, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
>>How dare they diversify their product line!
>
>LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
>until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
>and they were doing well. Look at them now.

Sir-Tech was not always doing well relying on Wizardry. Wizardry 4,
though a great game, didn't sell very well. Sir-Tech was rarely heard from
for a long time; it took Bane of the Cosmic Forge to put them back in the
spotlight. With the relative flop of Wizardry Gold, it's not surprising
that they want to hedge their bets.

>Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it diversification
>if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out
>losers?

I'll grant that. I don't know that that's what they're doing; they are
best part of Bane was the plot, and then in Crusaders it's turns into this
stupid Dark Savant storyline).

>That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they
>had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
>it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
>experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like
>wizardry die on the vine was not too smart.

I hadn't gotten the impression that they were.

>I bet you work for a game
>company don't you? In marketting?

Read the part of my address after the "@". Or read my sig.

>Advice like that has really done a

>lot of damage to a once healthy industry.

No, what has done damage to a healthy industry is the tendency to produce
knock-offs of successful games instead of original designs.

>We all got to spend the
>first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
>idiotware

Thanks to the success of "The Seventh Guest", which IMHO was more about
showcasing a computer's multimedia capabilities than about playing a game.

>and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
>wars.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean that there are a lot of
clones out there, then I lament it as much as anyone, probably more since I
don't care for the games being cloned.

>Thanks dude. I love diversification...

Don't blame me. I only refuse to buy 'em.

>So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
>Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?

Personally, I won't. I was disappointed by Crusaders of the Dark Savant; I
was looking for a continuation of the Bane of the Cosmic Forge plotline with
better graphics, not a quick tie-in and hokey sci-fi plot.

I'm more concerned about Ultima 9 being bumped back by Ultima Online. Ultima
is the only series I believe still has potential (although it's in danger of
collapsing on itself after so many installments). Might and Magic has become
outrageously munchkinized, and has done the Corak/Sheltem thing to death.
Wizardry has gotten stuck in a bad sci-fi plot while retaining fantasy
trappings. I never liked the Elder Scrolls series to begin with.

In short, I believe CRPGs in their pure form will die out (and are already in
the process of doing so) because companies want to produce "fast"--in terms of

both play and design--games. I don't believe companies can rely on the CRPG
as their "cash cow"--not without fundamentally changing the genre.

Rollo the Talking Dragon

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an online
spelling and grammer checker! It is comfoting to know that there are people
who pay money for internet services just to point out the errors of serious
usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not everyone on
Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write english.

What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just my
error! Will the human race ever change??


--
<=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>

<<UDIC>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine

^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn

http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

> It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."

Neil Fradkin

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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> Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an online
> spelling and grammer checker! It is comfoting to know that there are people
> who pay money for internet services just to point out the errors of serious
> usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not everyone on
> Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write english.
>
> What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just my
> error! Will the human race ever change??

Re-read your post. He was not correcting a grammar error. He is
correcting misinformation in your post.
They are not making the action games instead of the sequal to
daggerfall (implying that they are not doing the sequal), they are doing
it in addition to the sequal to daggerfall (meaning they are working on
it).
Nothing to do with microsoft, americans, or grammar. He was commenting
on your post by correcting the information that you gave. Of couse you
instantly take his post personally and write up this misinformed and
rude reply, will the human race ever change?

As to your point, it is not suprising that the follow up to daggerfall
is not on the top of the priority list. It did not exactly recieve
glowing reviews and it wasn't initally accepted by the gaming public.
Also there is more than one project going on at a time, they are making
a number of games at once. The games shown at E3 were those who were
playable enough to show.

Neil Fradkin

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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> >How dare they diversify their product line!
>
> LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
> until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
> and they were doing well. Look at them now.

Oh yeah, those Jagged alliance games just sucked, what a waste of time
writing that sequal. (btw, that's sarcasm)

-snipped a bit-

> So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
> Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?

Only those who think the name makes a game.

mark

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:59:05 GMT, antiju...@cyberpromo.spam.sux
(Dragon Master) wrote:

>Do you really want another Pathesda user pays beta test.
>

More than we want another repeated post from you.

Jeff Pack

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

In article <01bc9851$23af1160$678a67cf@ntw_quattrof>, "Rollo the Talking Dragon" <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:
>> It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."

>Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an online
>spelling and grammar checker!

That's not spelling or grammar; that's content. Computer game companies don't
have to choose between exclusively producing CRPGs and not producing them at
all, as "instead of" would imply.

>It is comforting to know that there are people
>who pay money for Internet services just to point out the errors of serious
>Usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not everyone on
>Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write English.

>What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just my
>error! Will the human race ever change??

He did comment on your post. Grow up.

mark

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Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:33:46 -0400, Shdwbld
<palad...@geocitiesNOSPAM.com> wrote:

>mark wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:
>>

>> >On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
>> >

>> >>How dare they diversify their product line!
>> >
>> >LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
>> >until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
>> >and they were doing well. Look at them now.
>> >

>> >Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it diversification
>> >if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out

>> >losers? That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they


>> >had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
>> >it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
>> >experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like

>> >wizardry die on the vine was not too smart. I bet you work for a game
>> >company don't you? In marketting? Advice like that has really done a
>> >lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the


>> >first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive

>> >idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
>> >wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...


>> >
>> >So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
>> >Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>

>> Oh god stop your damn whinning you babies and be happy they are still
>> putting out any types of games to you constant bitching adolecent
>> geeks. These are games people they are not meant to fight over they
>> are meant to enjoy and if someone puts out a game you don't like don't
>> fucking buy it but someone else might just like that game. If you
>> don't like those full mo games then the best thing you can do is not
>> buy those type of games and get on with your life. The time people
>> spend on the net just bitching about crap makes you think the majority
>> here need to get alife or even better a damn job.

>And also, GET A JOB!
>You should try to take your own advice.
>This is the LAST time you will hear from me, I don's have time for this
>crap.
>CYA
>--

Uh loser I actually have a job which is why I don't spend hrs on the
net whining about game companies putting out games that may not meet
my preferred genre.

johnmay

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

Dragon Master wrote:
>
> Hey gumby don't blame Sirtech Wiz 8 hit a major major snag here in Oz
> when the principal storyman dissapeared and the project was abandoned.
>

Did David even start this dragon or had he left by then ? I find it hard
to believe he would leave after starting wiz 8. Why did sir-tech ALLOW
him to leave, it would have been a better move to make him director of
the company than to let him leave, he had(has) more talent then Sir-Tech
are ever likley to see again.


John May.

Dragon Master

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

What losers?? I thought that Daggerfraud was the only loser (or is it
the people who bought it)


On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:

"On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
"
">How dare they diversify their product line!
"
"LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
"until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
"and they were doing well. Look at them now.
"
"Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it
diversification
"if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out
"losers? That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they
"had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
"it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
"experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like
"wizardry die on the vine was not too smart. I bet you work for a game
"company don't you? In marketting? Advice like that has really done a
"lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the
"first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
"idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
"wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...
"
"So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
"Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?
"
"
"

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Sean Tudor

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:

>So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
>Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?

The simple fact is that CRPG's just don't make the kind of money they
used to in the Ultima days. Games companies need to diversify to fund
production of a CRPG.

------------------------
Sean Tudor
Sydney, Australia
------------------------
Say No To Junk Email

Shdwbld

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

mark wrote:
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:33:46 -0400, Shdwbld
> <palad...@geocitiesNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
> >mark wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>How dare they diversify their product line!
> >> >
> >> >LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
> >> >until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
> >> >and they were doing well. Look at them now.
> >> >
> >> >Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it diversification
> >> >if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out
> >> >losers? That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they
> >> >had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
> >> >it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
> >> >experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like
> >> >wizardry die on the vine was not too smart. I bet you work for a game
> >> >company don't you? In marketting? Advice like that has really done a
> >> >lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the
> >> >first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
> >> >idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
> >> >wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...
> >> >
> >> >So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
> >> >Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh god stop your damn whinning you babies and be happy they are still
> >> putting out any types of games to you constant bitching adolecent
> >> geeks. These are games people they are not meant to fight over they
> >> are meant to enjoy and if someone puts out a game you don't like don't
> >> fucking buy it but someone else might just like that game. If you
> >> don't like those full mo games then the best thing you can do is not
> >> buy those type of games and get on with your life. The time people
> >> spend on the net just bitching about crap makes you think the majority
> >> here need to get alife or even better a damn job.
> >And also, GET A JOB!
> >You should try to take your own advice.
> >This is the LAST time you will hear from me, I don's have time for this
> >crap.
> >CYA
> >--
>
> Uh loser I actually have a job which is why I don't spend hrs on the
> net whining about game companies putting out games that may not meet
> my preferred genre.
Okay so I lied, but, I don't think you want to start this. I have a one
month holiday(office closed for Renov.). I have all the time in the
world to sit here and flame you. So, Down to a point, dont call me a
loser. Again, This is the last time you hear from me. Unless you
respond in some childish way like Loser, Moron etc.
CYA

Shdwbld

unread,
Jul 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/24/97
to

Dragon Master wrote:
>
> These pedants are always playing Daggerfraud/Yawn hence there
> whingeing
>
> On 24 Jul 1997 16:55:15 GMT, "Rollo the Talking Dragon"

> <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:
>
> "Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an
> online
> "spelling and grammer checker! It is comfoting to know that there are
> people
> "who pay money for internet services just to point out the errors of
> serious
> "usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not

> everyone on
> "Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write
> english.

> "
> "What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just my
> "error! Will the human race ever change??
> "
> "
> "--
> " <=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>
> "
> " <<UDIC>>
> "----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "----------
> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine
> "
> "^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
> " CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> "
> "http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm
> "
> "----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "-----------------------
> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn
> "
> "http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview
> "
> "> It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."
> ">
> "> _ _ __
> "> / \/ \ | | | | |__| | | /__ Read it upside
> <*>
> "> | | | \__|___|__ | |__ | | \ down!
> "> | | | __ | __|___|__ | | |
> "> | | __| | | | \ | | |
> ###################################
> "> | | |__| | | | | \_/\_/ # Matthew Buckley: sau...@cmu.edu
> #
> ">
> ###################################
> "> Homepage URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr/sauron/www/
> "
>
> Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will
> almost certainly be able to breathe something nasty,
> either acid, fire, poison, or something equally
> unpleasant.
You never learn do you dragon MASTER!(Master.....)
Maybe you should not go on the net, I mean I guess that you are
about.......................Oh
Maybe............................Nah..........................
..............................Yeah, Thats IT! About 10 years Old.
So go play with whatever the hell you do play with(Dragons it looks like
from your Name), and stop insulting DaggerFALL, It is a GOOD game.
CYA
ShadowBlade

Dragon Master

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

Dragon Master

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

He got a better offer from Origin maybe??


On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:07:40 +0100, johnmay <joh...@claranet.co.uk>
wrote:

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Led Mirage

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

In article <33D7D2...@claranet.co.uk>,

johnmay <joh...@claranet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Did David even start this dragon or had he left by then ? I find it hard
>to believe he would leave after starting wiz 8. Why did sir-tech ALLOW
>him to leave, it would have been a better move to make him director of
>the company than to let him leave, he had(has) more talent then Sir-Tech
>are ever likley to see again.

D.W.Bradley left long time ago. He'd even made a game. If you still want
to worship his "greatness", go check out the bargain bin, look for a "EA
Classic" called Cybermage. Then draw your conclusion on how much more
talented he is than Sir-tech.

Peteroo

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

>Did David even start this dragon or had he left by then ? I find it hard
>to believe he would leave after starting wiz 8. Why did sir-tech ALLOW
>him to leave, it would have been a better move to make him director of
>the company than to let him leave, he had(has) more talent then Sir-Tech
>are ever likley to see again.

As I recall, DWB was just tired of Wiz after writing three huge games (as
well as the unreleased original original Mac and Amiga ports), and moved
on after Wiz 7 to try other things.

:D.W.Bradley left long time ago. He'd even made a game. If you still want


:to worship his "greatness", go check out the bargain bin, look for a "EA
:Classic" called Cybermage. Then draw your conclusion on how much more
:talented he is than Sir-tech.

Actually, that's better advice than you may have known. CyberMage (which
was originally released by Origin) didn't get much respect in its day, but
it's a respectable Doom-style action/adventure and the first game of its
type to meld storytelling to shoot-em-up. Worth a look.

Peter

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

In article <33D7A2...@secant.com>,

nfra...@secant.com wrote:
> Oh yeah, those Jagged alliance games just sucked, what a waste of time
> writing that sequal. (btw, that's sarcasm)
>

Giving fair credit where it is due, Jagged Alliance (and Deadly Games)
was the ONLY good idea from Sir-Tech in the past 7 years. JA was not a
half-bad game, although it did not sell very well. Poetic justice,
because they did manage to foist off some of the other stuff onto
unsuspecting customers.

I played JA when it first came out (borrowed a friend's copy, would not
send these people a dime if I found it on the sidewalk) and I had to
admit it was a neat shoot-em-up strategy idea for a game. Kind of quirky
and with a lot of detail that made it interesting.

Unfortunately, it kept crashing on me and also had a lot of internal
problems, or so it seemed.

Although JA would make it under the tape of my cut-off score as a "real"
game, I doubt if the same person who wrote this game has a snowball in
hell's chance of writing a good Wizardry adventure. His is not exactly an
"examined life," if you get my drift.

If D.W. Bradley had decided to write fantasy fiction instead of computer
RPG's, I have to tell you, I think he could pull it off. He had some neat
ideas, kind of like Orson Scott Card in some ways. There was some breadth
there that encompassed some pretty adult ideas about the world that
nobody had ever thought to try to put into a computer game ... a bit of
prose poetry, maybe a bit hammy at times, but sincere, some reflection on
what your whole purpose in the universe/game scenario was and a lot of
other cool stuff that gives the whole thing basically infinite "replay"
value like no other game before (or after) it.

The guy who wrote JA can try, but ... I don't think this guy or all the
fond wishes and wannabes at Sir-Dreck can follow an act like that. If you
played WIZARDRY NEMESIS, you know that the "storyline" was strictly
sophomoric "find the Gobbledegook crystals to defeat the evil
Rama-Lama-Ding-Dong" like ten million games before it and afterwards.
These are not people who would be writing fantasy fiction if they were
not doing this ... frankly, they couldn't get any stuff published, 'cause
it would be piss-weak gibberish if they could not wrap a "game" around it
to draw attention away from how sub-par it is.

Of course, I am sure it all seems neither here nor there to the people in
Ogdensberg. I don't think they appreciated something good when they had
it, and what's worse I don't even think they appreciated it when it was
gone. They are probably thinking, "What does it matter? You gotcher
swords, you gotcher magic treasures, you gotcher dwarf-type characters
... what's everybody going on about, are ya gonna shovel out that meal
ticket we're so used to er not? I gotta extension to my house I'm making
payments on, coff it up, now! If D.W. Bradley was so damn smart, how come
he ain't rich and we are?"

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Craig Boulton

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Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:44:31 -0400, Neil Fradkin <nfra...@secant.com>
wrote:

> Oh yeah, those Jagged alliance games just sucked, what a waste of time
>writing that sequal. (btw, that's sarcasm)

I liked Jagged Alliance but Deadly Games was really a let down. My
understanding was that Sir Tech was just the publisher of JA though,
not the developer? I will go on the record as saying Jagged Alliance
is the ONLY game they have published since Wizardry VII that was worth
playing.

Dragon Master

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

Go play with Pokie, Gumby or maybe the squareheads are more you level
of intelligence.


On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:51:53 -0400, Shdwbld <palad...@geocities.com>
wrote:

"> Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will
"> almost certainly be able to breathe something nasty,
"> either acid, fire, poison, or something equally
"> unpleasant.

"You never learn do you dragon MASTER!(Master.....)
"Maybe you should not go on the net, I mean I guess that you are
"about.......................Oh
"Maybe............................Nah..........................
"..............................Yeah, Thats IT! About 10 years Old.
"So go play with whatever the hell you do play with(Dragons it looks
like
"from your Name), and stop insulting DaggerFALL, It is a GOOD game.
"CYA
"ShadowBlade

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Matthew W Buckley

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg: 24-Jul-97 Re:
Bethesda/Sir-Tech-What .. by Rollo t. T. Dragon@voice
>
> Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an online
> spelling and grammer checker! It is comfoting to know that there are people
> who pay money for internet services just to point out the errors of serious
> usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not everyone on
> Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write english.
>
> What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just my
> error! Will the human race ever change??
>

I WAS commenting on your post. I suppose your misinterpretation may have
been due to your not being raised to read and write English, or possibly
your "tiny brain," but the meaning of my post was that Bethesda is not
abandoning the CRPG. They are still making "Morrowind," the sequel to
"Daggerfall." IN ADDITION, they are making other, more action/adventure
oriented games, such as "Redguard" and "Battlespire." Did you complain
when they made other action games, like the Terminator games?

BTW, the experiences of a friend of mine working at Microsoft have convinced
me that I never want to work there, no matter how much stock they give me.

And I don't pay money for internet services, unless you count tuition. ;)

Seeya.

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

In article <5r7sf3$h...@cocoa.brown.edu>,
cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
> [snip]

>
> In short, I believe CRPGs in their pure form will die out (and are already in
> the process of doing so) because companies want to produce "fast"--in terms of
>
> both play and design--games. I don't believe companies can rely on the CRPG
> as their "cash cow"--not without fundamentally changing the genre.
>
> --
> Jeff Pack (cu...@brown.edu) Brown University, Class of 1999
> St. Anthony Hall, K'96 English and American Literature

I didn't agree with everything in this post, but you basically drove a
stake into the real deal here.

CRPGs are hard to write. They require intelligent, dedicated craftmen and
a development cycle that is 3 times that of a bog-standard 3D physics
multiplayer game where you have a shell and it is the players who
(supposedly) create the fun and interest through interaction.

If you are a moron who has only one goal in life - to make money and make
it fast, then you simply can't be bothered to pursue any quality product
lines, even IF the money would come eventually and the consumer loyalty
would be exceptionally high in the long run.

Look at all the factors you have to handle to make real computer games:
You have to retain good programmers, manage a software team of
decentralized professionals, pay competitive wages and handle them with
respect. You have to use the same attitude for all the support personnel
and keep them in your company by making them feel welcome and seeing to
it they enjoy their jobs.

Now look at the alternative ... hire a bunch of keyboard monkeys, put 'em
in a cardboard box feeding 'em rice and beans, do a safe formulaic twist
on some currently popular genre and concentrate on easily optimized stuff
like graphics.

The large corporate games company wants cash and they want it now. They
want simple management logistics ... warm bodies and concepts so easily
grasped that there is little question of how to approach the task.

Crank 'em in 'n out on autopilot, BS the players with slick ads campaigns
and laugh all the way to the bank. Leave eccentric nerds like me to
belabor the death of everything true and beautiful in the world while
they retire to Puerto Rico with their own resort and laugh at how many
people can be swindled with nothing but hot air and hype.

It is like the lamprey that attaches itself to fish - it might be a
disgusting and vile organism, but the fact is it survives with minimal
effort on it's own part and gets somebody else to bleed all the food it
can eat. Whatever you think of it, it seems to get the upper hand on
everything it comes into contact with. In terms of natural selection, it
excels at survival and has a coping strategy that keeps more of it's kind
in the world.

There is one ray of hope in the world, however ... the lamprey survives
when there is a plentiful supply of victims - fish who for whatever
reason are sick, slow or have weak reflexes. When the host is healthy and
fast, the lampreys perish or are reduced in numbers.

As consumers become a bit smarter and more discerning (and they
definitely are) and the PC market approaches saturation in the cash
economies (it is) you will find a lot of these blood suckers starving to
death. Like the lamprey, they are one-trick ponies and will not adapt to
changed conditions, they will die off.

Dragon Master

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Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

Go play with Pokie, Gumby or maybe the squareheads are more your level
of intelligence.


On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:51:53 -0400, Shdwbld <palad...@geocities.com>
wrote:

"Dragon Master wrote:
">
"> These pedants are always playing Daggerfraud/Yawn hence there
"> whingeing
">
"> On 24 Jul 1997 16:55:15 GMT, "Rollo the Talking Dragon"
"> <Fr...@voicenet.com> wrote:
">

"> "Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe Microsoft can hire you as an
"> online
"> "spelling and grammer checker! It is comfoting to know that there
are
"> people
"> "who pay money for internet services just to point out the errors
of
"> serious
"> "usenet posters. Did it ever occur to your tiny brain that not
"> everyone on
"> "Usenet is American? Not everyone was raised to read and write
"> english.
"> "
"> "What amazes me is that you could not even comment on my post, just
my
"> "error! Will the human race ever change??
"> "
"> "

"> "--
"> " <=========Rollo the Talking Dragon=========>
"> "
"> " <<UDIC>>
">
"----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"> "----------
"> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for The Koffin Online E-Zine
"> "
"> "^^^^For the Best in METAL,GRIND-CORE,DEATH,BLACK METAL^^^^
"> " CHECK OUT THE KOFFIN ONLINE
ZINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"> "
"> "http://members.aol.com/thekoffin/home/koffin.htm
"> "
">
"----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"> "-----------------------
"> "Fred Quattrone, Reviewer for Games Domain Review, Travellers Inn
"> "
"> "http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview
"> "
"> "> It's not "instead of." It's "in addition to."
"> ">

"> "> _ _ __
"> "> / \/ \ | | | | |__| | | /__ Read it upside
"> <*>
"> "> | | | \__|___|__ | |__ | | \ down!
"> "> | | | __ | __|___|__ | | |
"> "> | | __| | | | \ | | |
"> ###################################
"> "> | | |__| | | | | \_/\_/ # Matthew Buckley:
sau...@cmu.edu
"> #
"> ">
"> ###################################
"> "> Homepage URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/usr/sauron/www/
"> "
">

Douglas Rener

unread,
Jul 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/25/97
to

What total Bullshit:
I'm saving this message and sending it back to Todd Howard after
RedGuard is released.
Bethesda time and again makes grand claims about what the product
will be.
When the game is released- those features will be left out.
I will never buy a Bethesda product until they deliver what they
promise.

On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:34:28 -0400, Todd Howard <tho...@erols.com>
wrote:

>If you think we're abonding RPGs you're as dumb as you think we are. (I
>wonder if that sounds right? g)
>
>Bethesda is not abdonding RPGs. TES3 is coming..it's just a long way
>off. REDGUARD may not be an RPG, but I garuantee it will have loads of
>features that you'll want to see in future TES'. Full 3D characters,
>with real personalities and things they do. Hand crafted landscapes with
>real things to go out and find. No random, wish you were really doing
>something important, wish people would say "hi" world in REDGUARD. And
>it's not a pure "adventure". It is a complete hybrid. It's actually
>structured a lot like an Ultima and is very very open. What does a real
>fantasy town feel like and what is it like to run right out of it and
>climb into the mountains and stumble upon some dwarven ruins? You'll see
>in REDGUARD. This is one experience that Daggerfall (imho) was missing.
>
>Todd Howard
>Project Leader REDGUARD
>Bethesda

****************************************************
Spam Notice:
Remove the 'F#' from my email address to reach me...
****************************************************
For all you automated Spam-Progs out there, here are
some really good addresses for ya...
Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rch...@fcc.gov

And let's help you send some spam to the USPS, too:
cust...@email.usps.gov
***************************************************

Dragon Master

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
to

More like Morrowindup (wind like you wind a watch)


On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:53:07 +0200, "Peter K. Pichler"
<p_pi...@mail.styria.co.at> wrote:

"> >I just saw a list of games that Bethesda previewed at E3. They are
"> >releasing two games set in the Elder Scrolls world. Neither of
them
"> are
"> >RPGs. One is an adventure and the other is an Action/Rpg. This is
a
"> joke.
"> >They hit big with a CRPG, so instead of working on a sequel to
"> Daggerfall,
"> >they go adventure/action on us!

"> >Sir-tech is even a bigger joke. They have a huge line up of games
"> coming
"> >out and none of the are CRPGS. Some of these titles are really
"> laughable as
"> >well.They claim that WIZ 8 wont be ready till the fourth quarter
of
"> 1998.
"> >Considering that Wizardry built that company, you think that it
would
"> be a
"> >higher priority.
"

"Bethesda IS working on a Elder Scrolls RPG. 's called Morrowind.

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
to

In article <5r98c1$5...@shell1.interlog.com>,

lmi...@interlog.com (Led Mirage) wrote:
>
> In article <33D7D2...@claranet.co.uk>,
> johnmay <joh...@claranet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Did David even start this dragon or had he left by then ? I find it hard
> >to believe he would leave after starting wiz 8. Why did sir-tech ALLOW
> >him to leave, it would have been a better move to make him director of
> >the company than to let him leave, he had(has) more talent then Sir-Tech
> >are ever likley to see again.
>
> D.W.Bradley left long time ago. He'd even made a game. If you still want
> to worship his "greatness", go check out the bargain bin, look for a "EA
> Classic" called Cybermage. Then draw your conclusion on how much more
> talented he is than Sir-tech.

Yeah, hey, how 'bout that Michelangelo and the Sistine Chapel! Big
phoney, I'd say! The Vatican should have got themselves a big committee
and done the job right on those murals! They were a big organization like
Sir-Tech, so I guess they would have more "talent", 'natch.

Does a person who compares an individual's "talent" with that of an
abstract "organization" really even know what the word means?

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
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In article <33dcb239...@snews.zippo.com>,
gd...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Good luck to them. I hope they experience all the success that has
> befallen Sir Tech with their immortal Wizardry: Nemesis adventure.
>
> Diversifying isn't necessarily a bad thing, but neither is producing
> games from your strength and for your core audience.
>

In this instance, "diversifying" means "blind panicking terror that you
are unable to support your core product or produce a sequel, so pretend
like you are trying to branch out into other genres before the
repossession agents show up to get the office furniture."

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
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In article <33d8f12d...@news.zippo.com>,

dra...@cyberprom.sux (Dragon Master) wrote:
>
> He got a better offer from Origin maybe??
>
>

Maybe. But why did the ENTIRE team that worked on Crusaders defect to
Origin? They ALL got a better offer?

Look on the box of Cybermage then look in the manual of Crusaders.

The ENTIRE team left Sir-tech, not just David Bradley.

HMMMM ... what could make an entire team of people leave a company? I
wonder what could happen to cause that?

Todd Howard

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
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Hey, if REDGUARD is not what I say it is going to be then you have every
right to blame me/flame me whatever...I'll deserve it. But I'm not
handing you a line of bullshit. The game feels like a real place with
real people and real drama. This was the goal of the design. None of the
game is random. period. None. It is all designed already and over half
of the world has been built.

I'll take it on the chin, if I mislead you. But I'm always honest about
our games and I want these things in REDGUARD, because I think
Daggerfall didn't pull (these elements at least) together.

Todd Howard
Project Leader REDGUARD
Bethesda

mark

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Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97
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On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:35:06 -0600, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:

>In article <33dcb239...@snews.zippo.com>,
> gd...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Good luck to them. I hope they experience all the success that has
>> befallen Sir Tech with their immortal Wizardry: Nemesis adventure.
>>
>> Diversifying isn't necessarily a bad thing, but neither is producing
>> games from your strength and for your core audience.
>>
>
>In this instance, "diversifying" means "blind panicking terror that you
>are unable to support your core product or produce a sequel, so pretend
>like you are trying to branch out into other genres before the
>repossession agents show up to get the office furniture."

Daggerfall is less than a year old they have time to do some other
things before a sequel would be due. Most of you people here are
losers. Im sorry but a company puts out games and all you people do is
pick and pick at the type of game even before the game is out. Just
because they may not be true rpg's does not mean that people won't
like it. All the games I play are not always rpg's and maybe id like
to play a few adventure or heaven forbid action type games based on a
world I was familiar with.You all take these games to personally alot
of you actually get offended if they put out a non rpg. That is truely
sad.

Dragon Master

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Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97
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Bradley eccentricities, he may have fallen out with the brothers. I
think (OZ) Bruce made a better offer and then they were let down by
good old Max hence the huge delay in Wiz 8.

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

spectre911

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
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On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:25:38 GMT, swa...@avana.net (mark) wrote:

>Daggerfall is less than a year old they have time to do some other
>things before a sequel would be due.

I despised Daggerfall. They could come out with a sequel right now and
I wouldn't buy it. But if I DID like it I'd want the next game in the
series to be coming pretty soon now. Why is it that you think it's OK
for sequels to come out 3 or 4 years after? Thats a LONG fricking time
in this industry.

>Most of you people here are losers.

Kind of a gratuitous insult don't ya think? Most of the people here
seem to be working in the computer industry from what I can tell.
Maybe you should go buy a Nintendo and talk to the 10 year olds in the
cartridge newsgroups.

>Im sorry but a company puts out games and all you people do is
>pick and pick at the type of game even before the game is out. Just
>because they may not be true rpg's does not mean that people won't
>like it. All the games I play are not always rpg's and maybe id like
>to play a few adventure or heaven forbid action type games based on a
>world I was familiar with.You all take these games to personally alot
>of you actually get offended if they put out a non rpg. That is truely
>sad.

My favorite genre now is wargames since the RPG market has dried up. I
also like strategy games(NOT Warcraft and C&C) and, yes, I do like
action games too! My problem with a lot of the games coming out is
they are SHALLOW and TRIVIAL and they lack anything resembling GOOD
GAMEPLAY. But far be it from me to complain about an industry that is
catering to people with the attention span of a gnat...

Oh, and it is Adventure games that are the ones that are almost
completely without value, not action games. The world needs action
games. The world doesn't need RPG lites. Land o' Wonder games really
make me want to puke.

Brian C Robinson

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
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Craig Boulton (c...@earth.net) wrote:

: On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:

: >How dare they diversify their product line!

: LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
: until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
: and they were doing well. Look at them now.

:
Well, the truth is that the Wizardy's were decent RPGs, a little
too combat oriented for RPGs, but fun. Then Sir-Tech came out with Jagged
Alliance, one of the best computer games ever made. If they had stuck to
all Wizardries or other RPGs, the gaming community would have lost and
excellent peice of software.


--
'Take me with you..." - Trent

Dale Beaver

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
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dra...@cyberpromo.sux (Dragon Master) wrote:

>More like Morrowindup (wind like you wind a watch)

Oh. You mean that Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind, will have the
beauty of design and internal precision of a quality Swiss time
piece? That's good to know.

Marcus, the damned game isn't even off of the drawing board
yet, so why don't you put a cork in your obsession? YOU do not know
what it will be like, neither do I. Unlike you, however, I will wait
and see. This strategy tends to keep one from looking like an ass ( as
in jackass).

Did I use too many words that were more than one syllable?

Rollo the Talking Dragon

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Jul 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/29/97
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You all take these games to personally alot
> of you actually get offended if they put out a non rpg. That is truely
> sad.

One of the reasons for this newsgroup is to discuss these games! What else
should we do besides discuss CRPGs???

Rollo
>

Max Weber

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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How did you escape my kill file?

--Diomedes (Reconfiguring kill file...)


dra...@cyberpromo.sux (Dragon Master) wrote:

>How did strategy games enter into this group??

Max Weber

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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cl...@ans.com.au wrote:

>There is one ray of hope in the world, however ... the lamprey survives
>when there is a plentiful supply of victims - fish who for whatever
>reason are sick, slow or have weak reflexes. When the host is healthy and
>fast, the lampreys perish or are reduced in numbers.


You know how they're poisoning deer ticks with stuff that's non-toxic
for the deer right now, in an effort to reduce Lyme Disease? Do you
think there's a way to kill off those 'software lamprey' by making
their code explode?

--Diomedes

Max Weber

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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Hey, I'm curious now. What kind of jobs do you guys have?

--Diomedes

Shdwbld <palad...@geocities.com> wrote:

>mark wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:33:46 -0400, Shdwbld
>> <palad...@geocitiesNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>>
>> >mark wrote:


>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:40:09 GMT, c...@earth.net (Craig Boulton) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:07 GMT, cu...@brown.edu (Jeff Pack) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>How dare they diversify their product line!
>> >> >
>> >> >LOL! Diversifying was probably the DUMBEST thing Sirtech ever did! Up
>> >> >until about 1990 or so the Wizardry series was Sirtech's only product
>> >> >and they were doing well. Look at them now.
>> >> >

>> >> >Besides, diversify means broaden doesn't it? How is it diversification
>> >> >if you drop your successful product line and start cranking out
>> >> >losers? That's not diversification, that's stupidity. Maybe if they
>> >> >had followed conventional wisdom like "if it ain't broke, don't fix
>> >> >it" and "stick with the winners" they'd be in better shape. Its OK to
>> >> >experiment with new products but to let a big ticket item like
>> >> >wizardry die on the vine was not too smart. I bet you work for a game
>> >> >company don't you? In marketting? Advice like that has really done a
>> >> >lot of damage to a once healthy industry. We all got to spend the
>> >> >first half of the 1990's watching full motion video interactive
>> >> >idiotware and we get to spend the rest of the 1990's playing clone
>> >> >wars. Thanks dude. I love diversification...
>> >> >
>> >> >So Wizardry 8 will come out in Q4 1998, only seven years after
>> >> >Wizardry 7. Will anybody care?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Oh god stop your damn whinning you babies and be happy they are still
>> >> putting out any types of games to you constant bitching adolecent
>> >> geeks. These are games people they are not meant to fight over they
>> >> are meant to enjoy and if someone puts out a game you don't like don't
>> >> fucking buy it but someone else might just like that game. If you
>> >> don't like those full mo games then the best thing you can do is not
>> >> buy those type of games and get on with your life. The time people
>> >> spend on the net just bitching about crap makes you think the majority
>> >> here need to get alife or even better a damn job.
>> >And also, GET A JOB!
>> >You should try to take your own advice.
>> >This is the LAST time you will hear from me, I don's have time for this
>> >crap.
>> >CYA
>> >--
>>
>> Uh loser I actually have a job which is why I don't spend hrs on the
>> net whining about game companies putting out games that may not meet
>> my preferred genre.
>Okay so I lied, but, I don't think you want to start this. I have a one
>month holiday(office closed for Renov.). I have all the time in the
>world to sit here and flame you. So, Down to a point, dont call me a
>loser. Again, This is the last time you hear from me. Unless you
>respond in some childish way like Loser, Moron etc.
>CYA

Dragon Master

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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Got you again!! stay on your toes Weber

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

cl...@ans.com.au

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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In article <5rn4bp$m...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,

The next best thing is to be a smart consumer - don't be fooled by the
hype. If the average buyer was just a tad more discerning and less
impulsive, 90% of these companies would be out of business after this
Christmas. Which would be fine by me.

mark

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
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On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:21:26 -0600, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:

>In article <5rn4bp$m...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
> ~*!-$*~id...@maxweber.com (Max Weber) wrote:
>>
>> cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
>>
>> >There is one ray of hope in the world, however ... the lamprey survives
>> >when there is a plentiful supply of victims - fish who for whatever
>> >reason are sick, slow or have weak reflexes. When the host is healthy and
>> >fast, the lampreys perish or are reduced in numbers.
>>
>> You know how they're poisoning deer ticks with stuff that's non-toxic
>> for the deer right now, in an effort to reduce Lyme Disease? Do you
>> think there's a way to kill off those 'software lamprey' by making
>> their code explode?
>>
>> --Diomedes
>
>The next best thing is to be a smart consumer - don't be fooled by the
>hype. If the average buyer was just a tad more discerning and less
>impulsive, 90% of these companies would be out of business after this
>Christmas. Which would be fine by me.

Yea then the only game we could buy would be your piece of crap right?

Dragon Master

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Jul 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/31/97
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What piece of junk are we referring to. Even at its worst Wiz Gold is
miles better than the user pays beta Daggerfraud/Yawn

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Dragon Master

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Jul 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/31/97
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That is my argument, don't except junk and all these junk game makers
will fold, take Daggerfraud/Yawn for instance the most patched RPG in
history and the a user pays beta testing game which has now set the
standard for other junk games to follow.

On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:21:26 -0600, cl...@ans.com.au wrote:

"In article <5rn4bp$m...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
" ~*!-$*~id...@maxweber.com (Max Weber) wrote:
">
"> cl...@ans.com.au wrote:
">
"> >There is one ray of hope in the world, however ... the lamprey
survives
"> >when there is a plentiful supply of victims - fish who for
whatever
"> >reason are sick, slow or have weak reflexes. When the host is
healthy and
"> >fast, the lampreys perish or are reduced in numbers.
">
"> You know how they're poisoning deer ticks with stuff that's
non-toxic
"> for the deer right now, in an effort to reduce Lyme Disease? Do
you
"> think there's a way to kill off those 'software lamprey' by making
"> their code explode?
">
"> --Diomedes
"
"The next best thing is to be a smart consumer - don't be fooled by
the
"hype. If the average buyer was just a tad more discerning and less
"impulsive, 90% of these companies would be out of business after this
"Christmas. Which would be fine by me.
"

"-------------------==== Posted via Deja News
====-----------------------
" http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Because of their draconian heritage, a dracon will

Tim and Mary

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Jul 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/31/97
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Dragon Master wrote:
>
> What piece of junk are we referring to. Even at its worst Wiz Gold is
> miles better than the user pays beta Daggerfraud/Yawn

Dream on! Wizardry Gold SUCKS. It was fun for the first 5 minutes or so,
but got boring real quick. It did provide some challenge, but the
boring-factor was just way too high for me.

Tim

--
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."

Tim and Mary

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Jul 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/31/97