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mm6 Found alamos, Saintly?HOW???

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dstephen

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May 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/22/98
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Possible small spoiler:


Okay, I found alamos from what people said. I cant believe
that it said "south island" I must have went there TONS
of times and figured that boat just went to the island south
(maybe that it took two days???) it should definately have
said NORTH then I would have said OH SOMEPLACE ELSE ON A NEW MAP.

Looked ALL over the map finally found old LI no kee that some
npc mentioned as being there BEHIND THE STUPID INN, Got some xp
though I guess, and fun to kill some sea monsters. I'd like to
get stupid light magic master since I was level 53 or so yesterday
and am levels 63 or so after a play session (master learn on all
and those xp are racking up in alamos castle with the seemingly
unending foes. ) But I'm stuck at FREAKING HONORABLE.
I got to glorious after completing each council quest, but it
would NOT LAST LONG. I DID NOTHING WRONG and suddenly I was honorable
again. Going to a temple and giving a few k, I am still just honorable.
I manage to lead bad npcs totally away from a town they infest
to trash them without hurting folks, still honorable.
WHERE IS SAINTLY??? I dont think I'll ever get that. DARN!
Notorious was easy "I am tired of you npcs getting in my way
in the city square of freehaven.. archer, its starburst time"
then to get back up just gave some gold and was respectable again.
Then glorious after finishing a council quest, then honorable after
a short time for no reason. Now I have that Baa superior temple
thing to go do.. from what I've read here briefly so as not to
spoil it, things i have to touch will bring down my rep more.

Argh,

12 in all magics on my chars, and cant master light.


dave

--

dste...@gohome.com
(remove the "go" for email)

Christoph Nahr

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May 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/23/98
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Getting my reputation to "Saintly" was tough... really.
First, the order of reputations so that you know where you're standing
(hope I'll get it right):

Average -> Respectable -> Honorable -> Glorious -> Angelic -> Saintly

I was stuck at Angelic forever when I tried to get Light Master... I
went through a few cities searching for a bard to raise my reputation
(no spoiler, they tell you they'll do that :-)) and as I finally had
found one, my rep had dropped to Glorious!!!

Anyway I hired that insanely expensive bard (in White Cap IIRC, he
took TEN PERCENT for just a measly one-category boost in rep!) who got
my rep back to Angelic and went off to Castle Alamos once more,
butchering more mages and magyars.

Finished Castle Alamos. STILL ANGELIC!!! Either slaying humanoids
isn't good for your rep, or it's simply that you have to finish a
quest to boost your rep. Now I went off to the Frozen Highlands and
did a few jobs for Eric von Stromgard, and lo and behold, I had a
saintly reputation and could get my Master. Needless to say, I
immediately dumped that bard and got a duper instead.

Now comes the funny thing: Even without the bard and with the duper
(lowers your rep), I'm back at Saintly right now! What have I done in
the meantime? Finished a few quests (promotion, council, otherwise)
and killed non-human monsters (undeads, werewolves, minotaurs). So I
guess you should stroll around Kriegspire and Blackshire and butcher
some monsters, maybe do the Devil Outpost and the Wolf's Lair if you
haven't done them already.
--
Chris Nahr (chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com, remove NOSPAM to e-mail)
Please don't e-mail me if you post, or with a spam-trapped address

Peter Seebach

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May 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/23/98
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In article <3569465d...@news.supernews.com>,

Christoph Nahr <chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com> wrote:
>Average -> Respectable -> Honorable -> Glorious -> Angelic -> Saintly

>I was stuck at Angelic forever when I tried to get Light Master... I
>went through a few cities searching for a bard to raise my reputation
>(no spoiler, they tell you they'll do that :-)) and as I finally had
>found one, my rep had dropped to Glorious!!!

I finally got my rep to Saintly, but I'd forgotten to beacon the isle,
so I had to go rush through another two quests to get it back.

This game, we got there to set a beacon, and I found we were only Angelic.
So, I dismissed the duper, and got my light mastery.

I'm going to try to get "notorious" without killing anyone. Here's my
plan:

1. Heal at temples of baa until it stops hurting.
2. Sell every bone in the game.

If that doesn't work, well, I'll be sad.

>Now comes the funny thing: Even without the bard and with the duper
>(lowers your rep), I'm back at Saintly right now! What have I done in
>the meantime? Finished a few quests (promotion, council, otherwise)
>and killed non-human monsters (undeads, werewolves, minotaurs). So I
>guess you should stroll around Kriegspire and Blackshire and butcher
>some monsters, maybe do the Devil Outpost and the Wolf's Lair if you
>haven't done them already.

Monsters seem to have no effect, but quests are great.

-s
--
Copyright '98, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / se...@plethora.net
C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Not speaking for my employer. Questions on C/Unix? Send mail for help.
Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!

George Ruof

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May 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/23/98
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Quests raise your reputation. The main game quests give you a bigger
boost than the lesser quests.

Time lowers your reputation. If you do nothing but rest for a while
your reputation will go down.


--
George Ruof gr...@pacificnet.net
Senior Programmer New World Computing
I speak for myself, not my employer.
Please do not repost this message without prior permission.

Christoph Nahr

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May 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/23/98
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On Sat, 23 May 1998 18:12:52 GMT, se...@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
wrote:

>I'm going to try to get "notorious" without killing anyone. Here's my
>plan:
>
>1. Heal at temples of baa until it stops hurting.
>2. Sell every bone in the game.
>
>If that doesn't work, well, I'll be sad.

Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you
want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!
<eg>


--
Chris Nahr (chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com, remove NOSPAM to e-mail)

Download my Might & Magic VI Quick Reference Spreadsheet at
http://home.t-online.de/home/Christoph.Nahr/main.htm

lyman

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May 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/23/98
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dstephen wrote:

> Possible small spoiler:
>
>

> Dave said:

> "Looked ALL over the map finally found old LI no kee that some
> npc mentioned as being there BEHIND THE STUPID INN"
>

> Well, I've looked ALL over Alamos and there is no light master for
> me. There's a house behind the tavern, but nobody in it. It's
> completely empty. Does old Li No Kee go on extended vacations or am I
> missing something? I even went back and talked to the light expert to
> make sure I wasn't missing some quirk about the master being around
> sometime.

HELP!! I'm dying to master in light (I'm Saintly and everything) so
I can go nuke some towns -- starting with Free Haven.

Thanks,
Joe


>

>
>


Peter Seebach

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May 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/24/98
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In article <35692af8...@news.supernews.com>,

Christoph Nahr <chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com> wrote:
>Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you
>want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!

Well, it is a *role playing* game, by intent. I want to play the role
of good, honest, loving people.

Dave Rhodes

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May 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/24/98
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He's on the island with a dock (not the main island with the castle),
southern middle of the map, behind the inn.


J.A.Scott

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May 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/24/98
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In article <35679917...@uiuc.edu>, ly...@uiuc.edu says...

> dstephen wrote:
>
> > Possible small spoiler:
> >
> >
>
>
>
> > Dave said:
>
> > "Looked ALL over the map finally found old LI no kee that some
> > npc mentioned as being there BEHIND THE STUPID INN"
> >
> > Well, I've looked ALL over Alamos and there is no light master for
> > me. There's a house behind the tavern, but nobody in it. It's
> > completely empty. Does old Li No Kee go on extended vacations or am I
> > missing something? I even went back and talked to the light expert to
> > make sure I wasn't missing some quirk about the master being around
> > sometime.
>
> HELP!! I'm dying to master in light (I'm Saintly and everything) so
> I can go nuke some towns -- starting with Free Haven.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
IIRC, there are TWO inns on the Alamos map. Look for the inn on one of
the southern islands. The master should be there, opposite the inn
entrance.

J.A.Scott - Remove mapson to respond.

Lizard

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May 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/24/98
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On Sat, 23 May 1998 04:09:31 GMT, chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com
(Christoph Nahr) wrote:

>Getting my reputation to "Saintly" was tough... really.

Why? I wasn't even trying to raise rep, and my rep kept going up. Near
as I can tell, the only thing which lowers rep is selling bones and
killing NPCs, so don't do that. :)

*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice;
Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue:AuH20
http://www.mrlizard.com

Christoph Nahr

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May 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/25/98
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On Sun, 24 May 1998 23:38:03 GMT, liz...@mrlizard.com (Lizard) wrote:

>Why? I wasn't even trying to raise rep, and my rep kept going up. Near
>as I can tell, the only thing which lowers rep is selling bones and
>killing NPCs, so don't do that. :)

Well, I had done a few reputation-trashing things in the game (such as
selling bones, yes...) and although my rep kept going up as well it
just didn't reach "saintly" until I hired that bard and finished a
couple of quests. Naturally, once I didn't need it anymore it stayed
saintly forever! Getting my rep down to notorious for the dark master
was much more fun, anyway. I wonder why the people in Free Haven are
just lying there in the streets? <eg>


--
Chris Nahr (chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com, remove NOSPAM to e-mail)

MM6 Quick Reference at http://home.t-online.de/home/Christoph.Nahr

K. Laisathit

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May 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/25/98
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In article <3568af19...@enews.newsguy.com>,

Lizard <liz...@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>
>>Getting my reputation to "Saintly" was tough... really.
>
>Why? I wasn't even trying to raise rep, and my rep kept going up. Near
>as I can tell, the only thing which lowers rep is selling bones and
>killing NPCs, so don't do that. :)

Actually, completing Loretta Fleise's council quest (fixing
the stable price) also drops your reputation by one category.
So, if you're working on getting to saintly, you might wanna
wait on that quest a bit.

Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu

Jim Lindsey

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
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K. Laisathit wrote in message <6kcq0s$1dc2$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...


>In article <3568af19...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>Lizard <liz...@mrlizard.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Getting my reputation to "Saintly" was tough... really.
>>
>>Why? I wasn't even trying to raise rep, and my rep kept going up. Near
>>as I can tell, the only thing which lowers rep is selling bones and
>>killing NPCs, so don't do that. :)
>
>Actually, completing Loretta Fleise's council quest (fixing
>the stable price) also drops your reputation by one category.
>So, if you're working on getting to saintly, you might wanna
>wait on that quest a bit.


I've built my rep a lot and when it has fallen (I sold the bones
and did Loretta's quest). I was able to make it climb again
by donateing to temples (not the temple of baa of course).
I've made it a practice of having each character donate 3X
in a temple at least once a month. This helps your rep get
to and stay at saintly (at least it seems to for me) and gets
you ocational bonuses of protection spells cast on your
party by the temple.

Be Good,
Jim

David Ong Tat-Wee

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
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George Ruof <gr...@pacificnet.net> wrote:

: Quests raise your reputation. The main game quests give you a bigger


: boost than the lesser quests.

: Time lowers your reputation. If you do nothing but rest for a while
: your reputation will go down.


Great, this leaves a loophole:

If I've completed all the major quests that raise my reputation, but
decided to massacre a town to get Dark mastery first, then there is
_no_ way I can get back to saintly reputation, so no Light mastery.
(assuming all other minor quests have negligible impact on rep)

Similarly, if at saintly rep, I decided to hold off getting Light
mastery, then I may not get it again since my rep drops with time.


I'm not sure if this is a good design..... kind of forces you to work
all the way up to saintly first, then go round mass murdering. And it's
Light master now or never. :(


--
| Regards, --> David Ong Tat-Wee
| email: on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg
| - dotw - home page: http://www.iscs.nus.edu.sg/~ongtw
| tel: 772-2973 DISCS, National Univ of Singapore

David Paoletti

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
to

Actually this isn't entirely true. I "saved up" a few completed quests,
not finishing them until after I got dark mastery, and I'm back up to
saintly after finishing like 6 big quests. One of them was the 9 stables
quest, which actually drops your rep, and one was the Superior Temple of
Baa, which also drops your rep if you want the bonus 50k xp.

The quests that I can recall are: 9 stables, Superior Baa, Devil's Outpost,
Snergle's Axe, Castle Kriegspire (just the egg part), Hourglass of Time.
Tada, back up to saintly rep, after donating my way to respectable, of
course. The council quests seem to be biggies for raising reputation.
You could probably get pretty close to notorious just by doing the 9 stables
quest and selling a bunch of bones from the cannibals and the named dragon,
just the bones got me from saintly down to like bad.

Dave Paoletti

David Ong Tat-Wee (on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg) wrote:

K. Laisathit

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
to

In article <6kelnh$rl...@id4.nus.edu.sg>,

David Ong Tat-Wee <on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg> wrote:
>
> Similarly, if at saintly rep, I decided to hold off getting Light
> mastery, then I may not get it again since my rep drops with time.
>
>
>I'm not sure if this is a good design..... kind of forces you to work
>all the way up to saintly first, then go round mass murdering. And it's
>Light master now or never. :(

It's not big a deal. The only way it's gonna be a problem is if you
don't master it till the very end. As someone points out, major
quests add .75 to the reputation. You can donate to get to
respectable. A bard adds 1 to reputation. So, you only need to
get from respectable to angelic, which is only 3 categories
apart. That's 4 major quests.

Chris Woods

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
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Peter Seebach wrote:
>
> In article <35692af8...@news.supernews.com>,
> Christoph Nahr <chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com> wrote:
> >Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you
> >want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!
>
> Well, it is a *role playing* game, by intent. I want to play the role
> of good, honest, loving people.
>
> -s

Are you saying that good, honest, loving people can't occasionally go on
a psychopathic spree and nuke townes?!? I mean... talk about
restrictive!

Chris Woods who Armegeddoned every towne in the land when he was going
to master dark.

Chris Woods

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May 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/26/98
to

David Ong Tat-Wee wrote:
>
> George Ruof <gr...@pacificnet.net> wrote:
>
> : Quests raise your reputation. The main game quests give you a bigger
> : boost than the lesser quests.
>
> : Time lowers your reputation. If you do nothing but rest for a while
> : your reputation will go down.
>
> Great, this leaves a loophole:
>
> If I've completed all the major quests that raise my reputation, but
> decided to massacre a town to get Dark mastery first, then there is
> _no_ way I can get back to saintly reputation, so no Light mastery.
> (assuming all other minor quests have negligible impact on rep)
>
> Similarly, if at saintly rep, I decided to hold off getting Light
> mastery, then I may not get it again since my rep drops with time.
>
> I'm not sure if this is a good design..... kind of forces you to work
> all the way up to saintly first, then go round mass murdering. And it's
> Light master now or never. :(
>
> --
>David Ong Tat-Wee

Well... since getting mastery of Light and/or Dark magic isn't necessary
to complete the game, this "loophole" isn't a big deal. (Heck, it isn't
even a loophole.) You can still go on, you just won't be a light
master.

Chris Woods who mastered light first.

Alan A. Hobson

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May 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/27/98
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Christoph Nahr (chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com) wrote: : On Sat, 23 May 1998

18:12:52 GMT, se...@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) : wrote:

: >I'm going to try to get "notorious" without killing anyone. Here's my
: >plan:
: >
: >1. Heal at temples of baa until it stops hurting.
: >2. Sell every bone in the game.
: >
: >If that doesn't work, well, I'll be sad.

: Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you


: want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!

: <eg>: --

I managed to become notorious without killing anyone this afternoon.
I added a gypsy and a duper to my party (-1 rating for each), healed and
donated at the temples of Baa, and threatened a bunch of townsfolk until
my reputation was totally trashed (it was angelic before I started). I
know that I could have just nuked a town with apocalypse, but that just
didn't appeal to me. Now, I just have to build my rep back up. (I've got
it back to respectable at the moment.

-Alan


David Ong Tat-Wee

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May 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/27/98
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K. Laisathit <kir...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
: In article <6kelnh$rl...@id4.nus.edu.sg>,

: David Ong Tat-Wee <on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg> wrote:
:>
:> Similarly, if at saintly rep, I decided to hold off getting Light

:> mastery, then I may not get it again since my rep drops with time.
:>
:>
:>I'm not sure if this is a good design..... kind of forces you to work
:>all the way up to saintly first, then go round mass murdering. And it's
:>Light master now or never. :(

: It's not big a deal. The only way it's gonna be a problem is if you


: don't master it till the very end. As someone points out, major


Yes, I understand that this problem only exists if one delays mastering
Light till the very end, and also Light mastery isn't necessary for
completing the game, but IMHO, the game should not impose such
restrictions. By restrictions, I do not mean requiring a saintly rep to
master Light, but rather, the game should allow other _inexhaustible_
means to get your rep back to saintly. To get notorious rep is so easy,
just kill innocent peons, and one can do it again and again. But the
only way to get sainly rep is to do quests. This implicitly imposes a
"linear" structure to the game: ie. better get Light master, then get
Dark.

The bottom line is: allow more than one way to the goal. Ok, this is a
design issue and a moot point, but I thought I'll just bring it up for
discussion. Perhaps NWC can consider it for MM7.

ps. On the extreme, once I'm notorious and high-level enough, why can't
I threaten old man Ni Kok Lee to teach me Light mastery..... hmmm :)
(nah.... he'll just fry me with his prismatic light anyway :))

K. Laisathit

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May 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/27/98
to

In article <6kgd5e$34...@id4.nus.edu.sg>,

David Ong Tat-Wee <on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg> wrote:
>
>The bottom line is: allow more than one way to the goal. Ok, this is a
>design issue and a moot point, but I thought I'll just bring it up for
>discussion. Perhaps NWC can consider it for MM7.

Aye, that's true. May be another NPC that add +2 to rep? That way,
with a bard and the +2 rep NPC, you only need one more step from
respectable.

>ps. On the extreme, once I'm notorious and high-level enough, why can't
> I threaten old man Ni Kok Lee to teach me Light mastery..... hmmm :)
> (nah.... he'll just fry me with his prismatic light anyway :))

Woohoo... prismatic light. Yeah, it'll take the old man about 20
casting to down one char. Unless, of course, he has rank 100 light.

Warren A. Smith Jr.

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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On Sun, 24 May 1998 00:17:15 GMT, se...@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
wrote:

>In article <35692af8...@news.supernews.com>,


>Christoph Nahr <chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com> wrote:
>>Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you
>>want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!
>

>Well, it is a *role playing* game, by intent. I want to play the role
>of good, honest, loving people.

Yeah, me too, and that is the basis for my one real complaint about
the game. I'm not saying the game's perfect and can't be improved in
a lot of areas, but only this one thing really bothers me: reputation.
If you *want* to play a good guy, you can't 100%. Some quests you are
forced to do will lower your reputation. I believe it was George Rouf
who said that some quest or task automatically dropped your
reptutation to vile but it couldn't be helped as it had to be done.
(Yes, I know what quest but I'm not mentioning it due to possible
spoiler content.) I don't think this is right. I have no problem
with quests that drag down your reputation. But, you should never be
required to do those quests to complete the game. You should be able
to complete the game choosing your own path. So, if you decide to
play a good party, you can't get Dark magic, and vice-versa.

I would really like to see MM7 fix this "problem". Make us choose a
path, via our actions and choices, and then restrict our future
options based on that choice. If we decide we don't want to perform
an evil deed for some quest, we should be able to find some other
method which will get us to the same goal. Even if the path is a lot
harder, that is acceptable because it will have been by my choice.
Right now, the reputation is just a mechanism that you have to
manipulate to achieve your need at the time, ie., light or dark
mastery. But once you get Light mastery, for instance, there is
absolutely no effect if you go and trash the entire world. (While
NPCs say neither light nor dark are good/evil, the guilds say they
are.) I would like to see Light and Dark be exclusive of one another
and would even go so far to suggest that if you are a Light master and
your rep drops below a certain level, none of the Light spells should
work anymore, and similarly with Dark magic. That would make things
much more interesting.

--
Live Long & Prosper!

Warren A. Smith Jr.
Pearl River, NY

Warren A. Smith Jr.

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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On 27 May 1998 03:38:00 GMT, aho...@indy.net (Alan A. Hobson) wrote:

>I managed to become notorious without killing anyone this afternoon.
>I added a gypsy and a duper to my party (-1 rating for each), healed and
>donated at the temples of Baa, and threatened a bunch of townsfolk until
>my reputation was totally trashed (it was angelic before I started). I
>know that I could have just nuked a town with apocalypse, but that just
>didn't appeal to me. Now, I just have to build my rep back up. (I've got
>it back to respectable at the moment.

At first, I wasn't going to do this. I wanted to play a "good" party
even if it meant I couldn't master in Dark magic. However, I've
decided that it isn't worth it. The game doesn't take reputation
seriously so why should I? What I mean is that, it is just another
game function to manipulate to your own end, it doesn't mean anything
in the long term, which is too bad. Since the game actually forces
you to become "bad" via certain quests, what's the point? You have no
choice but to be both good and bad to complete the game. I really
hope they make the reputation more meaningful in 7. Give us a choice,
and make us stick with it. None of this wishy-washy up-down moment by
moment depending on what we are doing.

So, I will eventually master Dark magic and grudgingly accept the
notorious reputation to do it. I still won't nuke a town, though.

Warren A. Smith Jr.

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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On 27 May 1998 06:51:26 GMT, David Ong Tat-Wee <on...@iscs.nus.edu.sg>
wrote:

>Yes, I understand that this problem only exists if one delays mastering


>Light till the very end, and also Light mastery isn't necessary for
>completing the game, but IMHO, the game should not impose such
>restrictions. By restrictions, I do not mean requiring a saintly rep to
>master Light, but rather, the game should allow other _inexhaustible_
>means to get your rep back to saintly. To get notorious rep is so easy,
>just kill innocent peons, and one can do it again and again. But the
>only way to get sainly rep is to do quests. This implicitly imposes a
>"linear" structure to the game: ie. better get Light master, then get
>Dark.

Totally agree. It also almost forces you to save "cashing" in on
various quests to guarantee that you can get the rep you need. I
think it is very bad design. I like the game as a whole, but this
really bugs me.

Robert Olesen

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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Warren A. Smith Jr. wrote:

> On Sun, 24 May 1998 00:17:15 GMT, se...@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <35692af8...@news.supernews.com>,
> >Christoph Nahr <chn...@emailNOSPAM.msn.com> wrote:
> >>Getting notorious without killing anyone? <gasp> But why would you
> >>want to do that? I mean, that's exactly the FUN in getting notorious!
> >
> >Well, it is a *role playing* game, by intent. I want to play the role
> >of good, honest, loving people.
>
> Yeah, me too, and that is the basis for my one real complaint about
> the game. I'm not saying the game's perfect and can't be improved in
> a lot of areas, but only this one thing really bothers me: reputation.
> If you *want* to play a good guy, you can't 100%. Some quests you are
> forced to do will lower your reputation. I believe it was George Rouf
> who said that some quest or task automatically dropped your
> reptutation to vile but it couldn't be helped as it had to be done.
> (Yes, I know what quest but I'm not mentioning it due to possible
> spoiler content.) I don't think this is right. I have no problem
> with quests that drag down your reputation. But, you should never be
> required to do those quests to complete the game. You should be able
> to complete the game choosing your own path. So, if you decide to
> play a good party, you can't get Dark magic, and vice-versa.
>

> <snip>


> --
> Live Long & Prosper!
>
> Warren A. Smith Jr.
> Pearl River, NY

I completely agree. In Daggerfall, my main character never got to complete
the main quest because he detested the King of Worms so much that he would
not go back to pick up the Lich quest. It is a Role Playing Game after all,
and role playing is at least half the fun.

Robert Olesen.


J. Rinehart

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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Warren A. Smith Jr. wrote:
>
I'm not saying the game's perfect and can't be improved in
> a lot of areas, but only this one thing really bothers me: reputation.
> If you *want* to play a good guy, you can't 100%. Some quests you are
> forced to do will lower your reputation.
> Live Long & Prosper!
>
> Warren A. Smith Jr.
> Pearl River, NY

Agree 100%. If you are role-playing with a paladin, that paladin under
the strictest definition would not do some of the quests (unless you
want to consider the anti-paladin, which is despicably evil); and would
a paladin stay with a party using death magic to armageddon whole towns?
Of course not (unless it was an anti-paladin, then he/she would laugh).
On the flip side, would an anti-paladin stay with a party using light
magic? No, he/she would cut their hearts out and feed them to the dark
gods (or whatever).

And NO self-respecting papaldin would consent to use an alacorn wand,
EVER (I think).

Rinehart (Heliodor Dragon)

David Ong Tat-Wee

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May 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/28/98
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Warren A. Smith Jr. <WSmi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
: I would really like to see MM7 fix this "problem". Make us choose a

: path, via our actions and choices, and then restrict our future
: options based on that choice. If we decide we don't want to perform
: an evil deed for some quest, we should be able to find some other
: method which will get us to the same goal. Even if the path is a lot
: harder, that is acceptable because it will have been by my choice.

You know, if they implement this in MM7, we may see a multi-ending RPG.
That'll be cool and it will have lots of replay value.

: Right now, the reputation is just a mechanism that you have to


: manipulate to achieve your need at the time, ie., light or dark
: mastery. But once you get Light mastery, for instance, there is
: absolutely no effect if you go and trash the entire world. (While

Right, this I-don't-care attitude towards the swings in reputation bugs
me too. What's more, the "resources" for getting evil rep are
inexhaustible (kill, kill and kill :) while those for getting good are
(once all quests done, what to do next to become good??).

Ok, I know I've been bitching a lot about this, but I hope NWC gets the
point. Would be great if they could redesign this in MM7.

: are.) I would like to see Light and Dark be exclusive of one another


: and would even go so far to suggest that if you are a Light master and
: your rep drops below a certain level, none of the Light spells should
: work anymore, and similarly with Dark magic. That would make things
: much more interesting.

Yes! This would be really interesting. Then one would be forced to
select either Light or Dark exclusive. Just to point out also that the
spells should be well-balanced so as not to tip the scales towards
either side. Is it just me or do others also find the current MM6 Dark
spells are better than Light?

BTW though, MM6 is a great game. :)

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