CoH: Does it have "staying power"?
Bob Perez
funny, because it's like complaining "Well, yeah, this game may be fun NOW,
but how long will THAT last"? LOL people will complain about anything on
usenet. This game has its share of bugs and design flaws (Mapserver
disconnect, anyone?) but I don't count against it the fact that people keep
asking if there's "staying power".
But it is a fair question. You'd like to think that an MMOG into which you
pour significant investment will have some long term play value as a quid
pro quo for the ongoing investment (both in time and dollars). But the
"question" is beginning to sound like a complaint and the buzz I keep
hearing on the street is starting to sound like damning with feint praise.
"Yeah, great launch, fun game, but will it keep my interest?" Boggle.
I don't really know how to evaluate the "complaint". What I do know is that
I find myself compelled to log in every night and play, play, play, because
my wife and I are having a great time. We are both level 17 with our current
Heroes (we re-rolled after taking previous Heroes to 20) and mostly duo
together, roaming the streets in seach of bad guys to kill and missions for
our contacts. We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep, three-story
office complex, taking elevators to three separate fighting areas, twisting
and turning around corners and ambushes that kept us white-knuckled
throughout. We had to save 7 hostages and free them, and this required
locating them hidden away in all kinds of odd places and taking out the
guards (some of whom were wired with self-explosives). It was outrageously
fun and required all of our best tactics to stay alive. As a Controller and
Defender, we don't have a lot of damage dealing to our credit, and we were
fighting the Tsoo, probably the most difficult mobs to fight at our level,
and the battles were furious and fun. We failed the mission with 1 hostage
to go :( but wow, what a fun experience. In the end, we didn't feel cheated,
we felt disappointed! We let our contact down. :( Tonight we go back and
take on the next mission from this contact and hopefully will redeem
ourselves.
I haven't heard anyone yet discuss the Task Force missions (mostly because
they are still bugged and being fixed), and no discussion whatsoever of the
Trials. Trials involve 50 or more players and seem like pretty extraordinary
raid-like events. These are in game now and yet no one is talking about
them, probably because no one posting here has experienced them. But the
descriptions I've heard of these Trial events make them seem like they're
going to be very challenging and require the cooperation of many
Supergrouped heroes. Sounds like raiding to me.
Seems to me that there's a lot of information still to come in on this
question and the jury remains out. I've heard comments from people
suggesting that now that someone has already hit level 40 and HE didn't have
anything to add about endgame content, that's the end of story. Well, that
would be comparable in my mind to concluding that EverQuest has no endgame
either because a Rogue hit level 50 in just a few months after release and
he didn't have anything to say about an endgame either. You can race to the
highest level without hitting any endgame content if that's your goal. It
doesn't mean it isn't there.
I'll look forward to hearing more about this as time goes on and more of the
game is exposed to players. Until then, I don't know how anyone can come to
any meaningful conclusion and in any case, I'm not going to get too
concerned about it until I stop having fun. ;-)
--
The Daring Hypnotist
"Things are not what they seem".
17th Level Controller (Illusion/Storm)
Citizen of the Protector Server - Paragon City
The Legendary Doc Justice
"Justice Heals All!"
20th Level Defender (Empathy/Radiation Blast)
Citizen of the Justice Server - Paragon City
Alexander Mars
>Date: 5/17/2004 2:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <10aid36...@news.supernews.com>
I think the game is a lot of fun, but I don't think it will keep me playing as
long as I did UO or EQ. The game is shallow and lacks all the side diversions
of the usual MMOG.
-Well, God was my co-pilot....but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat
Him.
www.atar.com/alexmars (yet another useless web site)
Nostromo
'fanboy'...>;-)
--
Replace 'spamfree' with ('k__umcgl_' + ascii 123456789) to reply via email.
Reg LeCrisp
"Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10aid36...@news.supernews.com...
> We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
> I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep, three-story
> office complex, taking elevators to three separate fighting areas,
twisting
> and turning around corners and ambushes that kept us white-knuckled
> throughout. We had to save 7 hostages and free them, and this required
> locating them hidden away in all kinds of odd places and taking out the
> guards (some of whom were wired with self-explosives).
Is this a joke?
Come on, even the wannabe fanboys can attest that this particular mission
layout, save the hostages, 3 elevator floors are quite prevalent in this
game. I have done this type of missions at Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row, Steel,
and Boomtown. All the interior instanced Cells up to Boomtown have looked
exactly alike. The only difference was the level of mobs.
You said you had a level 20? I don't believe you.
chainbreaker
> This is the one question that keeps surfacing about this game. I find
> it funny, because it's like complaining "Well, yeah, this game may be
> fun NOW, but how long will THAT last"? LOL people will complain about
> anything on usenet. This game has its share of bugs and design flaws
> (Mapserver disconnect, anyone?) but I don't count against it the fact
> that people keep asking if there's "staying power".
I didn't think it would when I bought it, and after more than a week of
playing it extensively I haven't changed my mind about that yet. I'm just
enjoying it for what it is at the moment, and when I stop enjoying it I'll
simply quit playing.
I just wish that 3d engine had an honest-to-god RPG with "stuff" hooked up
to it . . . . <sigh>
--
chainbreaker
If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
Sean Kennedy
news:20040518031031...@mb-m03.aol.com:
I'll be interested to see if that remains the case. EQ started out with
very little - Vox and Naggy were supposed to be nigh to unbeatable, they
hadn't planned on having 50 people or more in one place, there was very
little selection in items, only a couple of tradeskills had anything in the
way of worthwhile items, the list goes on. Look at it now :-P
All the good things (and bad) that have gone in since have been in response
to player demand. Given what I've read, it looks like Cryptic have the
intent to continue adding and making the game experience deeper.
As always, time will tell. I'm the eternal optimist :)
--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Vacationing in the south of Faydwer
for the forseeable future.
The Orang, 6th Level Tanker
An Laoch, 5th Level Tanker
Rob Berryhill
I'm starting to think YOU are the one that doesn't play the game. Just
because it is in an office building with elevators does NOT mean it has
the same layout. In fact, I have played in MANY missions with unique to
rare layouts. Despite the few people whining about this, there are in
fact a great many different buildings, caves and layouts for missions.
If you want generic, crappy missions, look no further than AO.
--
Rob Berryhill
Clogar
>
[snip]
> If you want generic, crappy missions, look no further than AO.
No, I have to go with Reg LeCrisp on this - that's a pretty
standard layout. Further, I'm calling you on your "MANY missions with
unique to rare layouts comment" - I just don't buy it. The tilesets
and layouts have been relatively standard.
As to generic, crappy missions - CoH missions are a lot more
generic than those in AO. AO, however, had a lot more play options -
and a heck of a lot more "theme rooms" to play in.
While my enjoyment of AO only lasted a few months, I will say
this: AO is the game who's features are most copied by "new" releases
and the games that came after it. In terms of originality, CoH doesn't
come close (Although I did have more fun in CoHs).
Bob Perez
"Nostromo" <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
news:0jqja0t8d3mtg0nue...@4ax.com...
> Good, insightful post Bob. Get ready now for the inevitable cries of
> 'fanboy'...>;-)
Nah, nothing fanboyish about that. Looking up the definition of "Fanboy" in
Sisson's Abridged, I see that it requires -- among other things -- an
inability to recognize flaws in the game. That definitely ain't me.
--
The Daring Hypnotist
"Things are not what they seem".
18th Level Controller (Illusion/Storm)
Nostromo
-0400, Anno Domini:
>Bob Perez wrote:
>> This is the one question that keeps surfacing about this game. I find
>> it funny, because it's like complaining "Well, yeah, this game may be
>> fun NOW, but how long will THAT last"? LOL people will complain about
>> anything on usenet. This game has its share of bugs and design flaws
>> (Mapserver disconnect, anyone?) but I don't count against it the fact
>> that people keep asking if there's "staying power".
>
>I didn't think it would when I bought it, and after more than a week of
>playing it extensively I haven't changed my mind about that yet. I'm just
>enjoying it for what it is at the moment, and when I stop enjoying it I'll
>simply quit playing.
>
>I just wish that 3d engine had an honest-to-god RPG with "stuff" hooked up
>to it . . . . <sigh>
You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people & the
pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for the life of
me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the time...:-/
Bob Perez
"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> wrote in message
news:zBmqc.73541$xw3.4080347@attbi_s04...
> Is this a joke?
No, it was an honest and serious account. If you've got some problem with
something I've said, drop the sarcasm and chirp up with it, lol.
> Come on, even the wannabe fanboys can attest that this particular mission
> layout, save the hostages, 3 elevator floors are quite prevalent in this
> game.
Yes, office layouts with 3 elevator floors are common at this level. Nothing
unique about that. However, if you are the more observant type, you will
notice that they have the kind of variability that was present in the
original dungeon layouts of Diablo for example. Same tilesets re-arranged in
a number of different ways so that it's never completely predictable what
you'll get. The layout we experienced in this mission was wayyy different
than anything I'd seen previously, with a third floor layout that included a
central, up-stairway office floating above everything on the floor. It was
quite fun weaving our way through the map, very long and full of odd
passageways .
> I have done this type of missions at Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row, Steel,
> and Boomtown. All the interior instanced Cells up to Boomtown have looked
> exactly alike. The only difference was the level of mobs.
There you go. Anyone who has played this game extensively through the teens
or 20's will immediately recognize from this comment that you are dead wrong
here, and obviously inexperienced. Either that or pretty inobservant.
> You said you had a level 20? I don't believe you.
LOL, that's ok. I believe I can live with your embarassment. ;-)
--
(The Daring) Hypnotist
"Things are not what they seem".
18th Level Controller (Illusion/Storm)
Citizen of the Protector Server - Paragon City
(The Legendary) Doc Justice
Gandalf Parker
news:rhvka0dv9qlnh2sbe...@4ax.com:
> You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people
> & the pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for
> the life of me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the
> time...:-/
>
Spoken like a "heart".
There is a famous psych paper from the early days (when mmogs were
called muds :) that semi-classified players. It has ben the basis for
alot of psyche papers since on the subject of online communitys and
online personalities. It also had great info on how to alter the game in
order to raise or lower the percentages of each type of player to fit
that particular mud community.
> The four things that people typically enjoyed personally about MUDs
> were:
>
> i) Achievement within the game context.
>
> Players give themselves game-related goals, and vigorously set out to
> achieve them. This usually means accumulating and disposing of large
> quantities of high-value treasure, or cutting a swathe through hordes
> of mobiles (ie. monsters built in to the virtual world).
>
> ii) Exploration of the game.
>
> Players try to find out as much as they can about the virtual world.
> Although initially this means mapping its topology (ie. exploring the
> MUD's breadth), later it advances to experimentation with its physics
> (ie. exploring the MUD's depth).
>
> iii) Socialising with others.
>
> Players use the game's communicative facilities, and apply the
> role-playing that these engender, as a context in which to converse
> (and otherwise interact) with their fellow players.
>
> iv) Imposition upon others.
>
> Players use the tools provided by the game to cause distress to (or,
> in rare circumstances, to help) other players. Where permitted, this
> usually involves acquiring some weapon and applying it
> enthusiastically to the persona of another player in the game world.
>
> So, labelling the four player types abstracted, we get: achievers,
> explorers, socialisers and killers. An easy way to remember these is
> to consider suits in a conventional pack of cards: achievers are
> Diamonds (they're always seeking treasure); explorers are Spades (they
> dig around for information); socialisers are Hearts (they empathise
> with other players); killers are Clubs (they hit people with them).
Bob Perez
"Clogar" <clog...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40AA75...@nospam.com...
> No, I have to go with Reg LeCrisp on this - that's a pretty
> standard layout.
No, you and Reg are focusing on the generic "three floor elevator" general
layout as a common theme and you're right, they are. That was not the
intended focus of my comment. The actual allocation of tilesets is randomly
distributed so that there are indeed unique and rare layouts. It's very much
like the original Diablo in this sense. You could go to Hell levels 15 and
16 and they would be mostly the same, with Laz in the same spot on 15 and 16
always identical in every respect but mobs, but 1-14 were infinitely
variable in that the tilesets were layed out during game creation time to
create some unique and in some cases rare combinations that provided just a
little variability and unpredictability. Same kind of thing is done here,
and the office layouts with 3 elevator floors provide the opportunity for
that same kind of variability. The map I played in the mission described was
completely unique (and I'm guessing fairly rare, since I'd never seen it
after playing to level 20, and taking two alts to 18).
> Further, I'm calling you on your "MANY missions with
> unique to rare layouts comment" - I just don't buy it. The tilesets
> and layouts have been relatively standard.
See above.
> As to generic, crappy missions - CoH missions are a lot more
> generic than those in AO. AO, however, had a lot more play options -
> and a heck of a lot more "theme rooms" to play in.
I think your'e probably right since I've heard that AO has been radically
transformed in the years since it's been out. But if you want to compare AO
1.0 release with CoH 1.0 release, it's not even close, as you no doubt
recall. AO 1.0 release missions were horribly consistent, when they worked
lol. My biggest complaint about CoH when I first started playing it was this
repetitive mission problem, I especially get tired of that old abandoned
warehouse tileset and couldn't wait to get through the 8-16 range where it
was prevalent to start getting the new office layouts. I don't think they're
completely there yet, they need a LOT more variability in map layouts, and
I'm hoping they add them. I think the new features update mentions some new
mission variability themes, I hope they've got the message.
> While my enjoyment of AO only lasted a few months, I will say
> this: AO is the game who's features are most copied by "new" releases
Yep, AO popularized the notion of instanced dungeons, which just about every
MMOG now has or will have. Offhand I can't think of anything else that AO
pioneered, but that's a big one and was one of my favorite features.
> In terms of originality, CoH doesn't
> come close (Although I did have more fun in CoHs).
Agreed on both counts. CoH isn't a ground breaker, nor was Diablo. Both,
however, succeeded in doing the thing that counts most in my book: polishing
it up real nice and making it all FUN. That's the message of my original
post, the notion that this small little detail appears to get lost in many
of the discussions about this game. For this I get called "an uber fanboy",
but then I knew that that was coming lol.
--
(The Daring) Hypnotist
"Things are not what they seem".
18th Level Controller (Illusion/Storm)
Citizen of the Protector Server - Paragon City
(The Legendary) Doc Justice
Samy Merchi
> In article <zBmqc.73541$xw3.4080347@attbi_s04>, x@x.x says...
>> "Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
>> > We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
>> > I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep,
>> > three-story office complex
>> Come on, even the wannabe fanboys can attest that this particular
>> mission layout, save the hostages, 3 elevator floors are quite
>> prevalent in this game.
> I'm starting to think YOU are the one that doesn't play the game. Just
> because it is in an office building with elevators does NOT mean it
> has the same layout.
True, but pretty much all office building layouts are incredibly similar,
and are obviously constructed of similar elements, and there is only one
or two different texture maps for office buildings too. They all pretty
much look the same.
Same with any other map type. Any sewer map is the same as any other, for
practical purposes. Any cave map is the same as any other, for practical
purposes.
> In fact, I have played in MANY missions with
> unique to rare layouts. Despite the few people whining about this,
> there are in fact a great many different buildings, caves and layouts
> for missions.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that there is an infinite amount of
different layouts available, as I'm sure the maps are somehow dynamically
generated with a tile-like mechanism.
'Infinite different layouts', does not, however, equate to 'infinite
*interesting* layouts'.
--
Samy Merchi | sa...@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/samy | #152235689
Reader of superhero comic books, writer of superhero fanfiction
"*Astrolabe*...whirls...*twirls*!"
Samy Merchi
> You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people
> & the pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for
> the life of me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the
> time...:-/
What I'd like best is having this engine, and a non-MMO, story-based RPG
around it.
To hell with the other players, I want a cool story.
Samy Merchi
> "Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> wrote in message
>> I have done this type of missions at Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row, Steel,
>> and Boomtown. All the interior instanced Cells up to Boomtown have
>> looked exactly alike. The only difference was the level of mobs.
>
> There you go. Anyone who has played this game extensively through the
> teens or 20's will immediately recognize from this comment that you
> are dead wrong here, and obviously inexperienced.
I'm at level 15 now, and I pretty much agree with Reg. I would agree that
the usage of the word 'exactly' verges into the hyperbole, but the intent
behind his statement is clear enough, and I agree with that intent.
Door missions are all incredibly similar. (Not 'exactly' the same, though,
I'll concede that.)
Reg LeCrisp
"Rob Berryhill" <Rob_Be...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b14282a2...@news.cox-
> In fact, I have played in MANY missions with unique to
> rare layouts.
Name them off please.
Playing a support class I have grouped throughout my career at COH. I have
been a part of many people's missions that took us to Boomtown, Steel,
Skyway, Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row, ....
After you do a few you will realize that the save the hostages, sewers, etc
instanced missions look all the SAME in terms of layouts and tilesets. The
only thing that is changed are mob levels.
Bob Perez
"Samy Merchi" <sa...@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:Xns94EEC2A93...@130.232.1.14...
> I'm at level 15 now, and I pretty much agree with Reg. I would agree that
> the usage of the word 'exactly' verges into the hyperbole, but the intent
> behind his statement is clear enough, and I agree with that intent.
>
> Door missions are all incredibly similar. (Not 'exactly' the same, though,
> I'll concede that.)
Yep, that's my biggest issue still with the game. I keep yearning for more
variability in missions, both in objectives and layout. If I see another
abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll scream.
For some reason, the office layout building is much more interesting to me
and the variability I'm encountering in these is pretty satisfying.
chainbreaker
> Nostromo <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in
>
>> You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people
>> & the pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for
>> the life of me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the
>> time...:-/
>
> What I'd like best is having this engine, and a non-MMO, story-based
> RPG around it.
>
> To hell with the other players, I want a cool story.
That'd work. :-)
--
chainbreaker
Julie d'Aubigny
I haven't played the game yet, so I really don't know either way...but
it strikes me that rare layouts would be, well, rare. So your lack of
experience with them doesn't really prove anything.
--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.ma...@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Samy Merchi
>> Door missions are all incredibly similar. (Not 'exactly' the same,
>> though, I'll concede that.)
> Yep, that's my biggest issue still with the game. I keep yearning for
> more variability in missions, both in objectives and layout. If I see
> another abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll
> scream.
I know *exactly* what you mean.
> For some reason, the office layout building is much more interesting
> to me and the variability I'm encountering in these is pretty
> satisfying.
I find the caves the most horrifying in similarity; likely because they're
so twisting and turning that all the maps very easily blur together in my
mind. I find it incredibly difficult to know where I'm going even just on
one map, let alone distinguish between different cave maps.
I have less trouble with offices and warehouses -- their big open rooms
help a lot with clarity.
shadows
> I haven't played the game yet, so I really don't know either way...but
> it strikes me that rare layouts would be, well, rare. So your lack of
> experience with them doesn't really prove anything.
The indoor mission maps seem to be different as you get to higher
levels but I think the maps are bigger as you gain levels.
Things do look mostely the same unless you're doing a mission in
a cave which looks pretty spectacular.
--
Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/
Bob Perez
> I find the caves the most horrifying in similarity; likely because they're
> so twisting and turning that all the maps very easily blur together in my
> mind. I find it incredibly difficult to know where I'm going even just on
> one map, let alone distinguish between different cave maps.
Yeah, I always dread doing the "Rescue the Fortune Teller" mission, or
whatever it's called. I've done it a couple of times and both times it was
deep in a cave within Perez Park, fighting CoT. I don't mind CoT, they're
not that tough, but the combination of those cave maps (whose levels are
NUTS to decipher using the map tool) and the inpenetrable, non-intuitive
layout of Perez Park always leaves me feeling frustrated. One of the misison
choices I try and avoid as long as I can. I think it's part of the
unraveling story arc tho so I always wind up facing it eventually.
This game is so good in so many other respects, with some work adding to the
variability of mission objectives and map layouts (and fixing that Mapserver
disconnect issue, please!), a monster could be in the works.
Bob Perez
> I'm at level 15 now, and I pretty much agree with Reg. I would agree that
> the usage of the word 'exactly' verges into the hyperbole, but the intent
> behind his statement is clear enough, and I agree with that intent.
Come back and tell me how you feel once you hit 17 or 18, I suspect you will
see a difference. The game changes in a few ways at 17. For one, you start
getting DO drops (woot!), but I bet the map variability increases too
because I'm feeling very much like I'm past that "all missions look the
same" stage that plagues 8-16. The office layouts I've seen this week are
quite a bit more varied than the ones I had just a couple of levels ago.
Not to put too fine a point on it because I understand your agreement with
Reg's *intent*, that's fine. But to say that using the phrase "exactly the
same" verges on hyperbole is a bit understated don't you think? ;-)
Samy Merchi
> Come back and tell me how you feel once you hit 17 or 18, I suspect
> you will see a difference. The game changes in a few ways at 17. For
> one, you start getting DO drops (woot!), but I bet the map variability
> increases too because I'm feeling very much like I'm past that "all
> missions look the same" stage that plagues 8-16. The office layouts
> I've seen this week are quite a bit more varied than the ones I had
> just a couple of levels ago.
I hope very much that you're right and my experience will reflect yours.
I'm pretty tired of the standard maps already.
> Not to put too fine a point on it because I understand your agreement
> with Reg's *intent*, that's fine. But to say that using the phrase
> "exactly the same" verges on hyperbole is a bit understated don't you
> think? ;-)
What can I say, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. :)
Reg LeCrisp
"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:40AA9869...@comcast.net...
>
> I haven't played the game yet, so I really don't know either way...but
> it strikes me that rare layouts would be, well, rare. So your lack of
> experience with them doesn't really prove anything.
That's Great. But if you have played the game and then come here to read
about Bob Perez's UNIQUE and RARE experience. Frankly I am still confused.
I mean he detailed this mission like it was some WOW Factor.
Okay everyone who has at least gone up to level 15 or so, please with a
clear thought read the below passage and anyone who has played the game can
please explain to me what was so rare and unique about this? I have rescued
hostages, seen 3 story office buildings, took the elevators to each one,
turned corners only to get ambushed. I just about covered every detail of
Bob's Rare and unique experience. Did the Walls speak or something? Was
there some unique Boss mob at the end who told the players, WELL DONE and
gave them a gift?
What is unique about this? anyone know? Seriously..Let's break it down..
"Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10aid36...@news.supernews.com...
> We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
> I'd never seen.
Okay!, Drool got me foaming at the mouth. Bob soon follows this up by...
> We were winding our way through this deep, three-story office complex,
Uhh okay. Considering I have seen this mission office building with 3
stories now for several levels ... hmm, let us go on!
> taking elevators to three separate fighting areas, twisting and turning
around corners and ambushes that kept us white-knuckled
> throughout.
Uh huh.. okay still waiting......for the rare and unique experience....
> We had to save 7 hostages and free them, and this required locating them
hidden away in all kinds of odd places and taking out
> the guards (some of whom were wired with self-explosives).
That's IT ??? After 20 levels and another toon to 17 THE ONLY RARE MISSION
THAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH WAS THIS? How could you look at yourself in the
mirror and even fathom to share this experience with us and assume the
majority of non fanboys would buy into this?
Nice try Bob, but I think you are still a noob. I doubt you got past Atlas
park yet.
Reg LeCrisp
"Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10ale2n...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it because I understand your agreement with
> Reg's *intent*, that's fine. But to say that using the phrase "exactly the
> same" verges on hyperbole is a bit understated don't you think? ;-)
Bob you know exactly what I meant. The tiles and overall layout are alike.
Okay so the hostage spawned in a different room insead of this other
location in a prior mission....
Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
Nostromo
Domini:
And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
Nostromo
-0400, Anno Domini:
It would if he would just stop to talk to ppl! >;-)
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
>
> And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
to be attacked for it.
Nostromo
08:45:00 GMT, Anno Domini:
>Nostromo wrote:
>>
>> >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
>>
>> And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
>
>I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>to be attacked for it.
I blame our western so-called-'civilized' Godless culture, the decline of
family/community values, misapplied individualism ("I'm the centre of the
Universe!"), children under 18 thinking they're adults (when they're still
not able to wash their own clothes or cook a meal for themselves), & gross
apathy in general. Or, it could just be a whole lot of fuckwits with nothing
better to do. Take yer pick Jules...
Samy Merchi
> It would if he would just stop to talk to ppl! >;-)
Hey I would, but I'm busy trying to fix my 'not knowing how to play the
game' by running around and killing as much as I can in as brief a period
of time as possible. ;)
Bob Perez
"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> wrote in message news:2Szqc.3919$zw.458@attbi_s01...
alike.
> Okay so the hostage spawned in a different room insead of this other
> location in a prior mission....
>
> Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
Well, you are obviously an inexperienced player at this game and on top of
that not very observant. My suggestion to you is that you consider something
a little more appropriate for your age and concentration level. Have you
considered Counterstrike? That really sounds more up your alley. That way
you can just shoot things on the same exact maps time after time and not
have to worry about paying attention to subtle changes in the environment. I
know that's a challenge for you.
Hope I didn't embarass you too much in front of all these readers, my
sincere condolences for you rather poor showing. ;-)
--
Bob Perez
"Stupidness is not the opposite of smartness, but rather the opposite of
wisdom"
- Robert Sternberg, "Why Smart People can be so Stupid"
Bob Perez
> Nostromo wrote:
> >
> > >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
> >
> > And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
>
> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
> to be attacked for it.
There is no need to attack, it's a conscious choice that's therapeutic for a
guy like Reg. All is chosen, and we define ourselves in life by the choices
that we make. Presented with an infinitely variable set of choices, the
unfortunate Reggie Crispy chose the path of personal attack because, well
because he could. My sincere condolences to him for winding up with a life
that requires that kind of occaisional kick.
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>"Samy Merchi" <sa...@iki.fi> wrote in message
>news:Xns94EEC2A93...@130.232.1.14...
>
>> I'm at level 15 now, and I pretty much agree with Reg. I would agree that
>> the usage of the word 'exactly' verges into the hyperbole, but the intent
>> behind his statement is clear enough, and I agree with that intent.
>>
>> Door missions are all incredibly similar. (Not 'exactly' the same, though,
>> I'll concede that.)
>
>Yep, that's my biggest issue still with the game. I keep yearning for more
>variability in missions, both in objectives and layout. If I see another
>abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll scream.
I ran into an awful variant of this last night. Got a mission from
Carla something in Skyway. Seems one of the hottest nightclubs in town
had a problem with gangmembers causing trouble and fighting, so I ws to
head over and bust em all.
Only the nightclub was a ruined factory/warehouse and the only lightshow
came from my targeting drone.
Not having an actual nightclub type tileset was a big letdown.
>For some reason, the office layout building is much more interesting to me
>and the variability I'm encountering in these is pretty satisfying.
I've seen quite a bit of variability in the office buildings, including
some that almost seem like they're bigger on the inside than the outside
with HUGE interior areas of almost mall proportions.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Nostromo <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in
>
>> You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people
>> & the pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for
>> the life of me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the
>> time...:-/
>
>What I'd like best is having this engine, and a non-MMO, story-based RPG
>around it.
>
>To hell with the other players, I want a cool story.
That works too, plus there's be no more mapserver disconnects.
I just miss the destructible terrain and using cars/mailboxes/signposts
etc as weapons from Freedom Force.
Of course in an MMORPG setting it's no wonder there's no destructible
terrain or there wouldn't BE a city anymore. :)
Where's my contact? Under that pile of rubble over there.
Where's the Trainer? Under that large pile of rubble over there.
I do kind of miss the _EXTREME_ knockback you could get in Freedom Force
too. At one point i'd made a character whose main attack did almost no
damage but had max knockback force and would send man size critters
bouncing off buildings and landing blocks away.
Of course it didn't work at all on the larger and heavier things. :(
Reg LeCrisp
> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
> to be attacked for it.
Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
chime in on this thread.
Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
know the truth as well.
"Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10aid36...@news.supernews.com...
> We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
> I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep, three-story
> office complex, taking elevators to three separate fighting areas,
twisting
> and turning around corners and ambushes that kept us white-knuckled
> throughout. We had to save 7 hostages and free them, and this required
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>"Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in
>> "Samy Merchi" <sa...@iki.fi> wrote in message
>
>>> Door missions are all incredibly similar. (Not 'exactly' the same,
>>> though, I'll concede that.)
>
>> Yep, that's my biggest issue still with the game. I keep yearning for
>> more variability in missions, both in objectives and layout. If I see
>> another abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll
>> scream.
>
>I know *exactly* what you mean.
>
>> For some reason, the office layout building is much more interesting
>> to me and the variability I'm encountering in these is pretty
>> satisfying.
>
>I find the caves the most horrifying in similarity; likely because they're
>so twisting and turning that all the maps very easily blur together in my
>mind. I find it incredibly difficult to know where I'm going even just on
>one map, let alone distinguish between different cave maps.
*cough*
The first, oh 2-3 times I had the "defeat the jewel thief" CoT Mission
with the entrance under Prometheus Park I, for some odd reason, though
maps didn't work in missions so I was navigating by trial and error.
Although I did work out that taking the first left, then right, then all
lefts got you down to the bottom and ran you past most of the CoTs.
>I have less trouble with offices and warehouses -- their big open rooms
>help a lot with clarity.
Oh yeah, but the warehouses are just so _dreary_.
I really hope they splice in more tilesets so the (semi)random mission
generators have more to work with.
Rescue the movie star from the CoT that have invaded his palatial
mansion.
Clear the thugs from the Paragon Art Museum.
Save the kiddies from the Vahz who've raided their elementary school.
and so on.
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>Nostromo wrote:
>>
>> >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
>>
>> And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
>
>I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>to be attacked for it.
Maybe "Reg" is a frustrated griefer who hasn't been able to actually
ruin anyones fun in-game, so he's venting on people here.
After all, it's not like behaving like an asshole could get him banned
from usenet as it might from a MMORPG.
Simon Nejmann
>
>"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:40AB1E9D...@comcast.net...
>
>> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>> to be attacked for it.
>
>Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
>chime in on this thread.
So if somebody, who actually played the game, asked you to be nice and
stop the personal assaults, you would comply?
Sorry if I chalk your reply up as "Umm, I can't come up with an actual
argument, so I will just disregard you on some pseudo-reason"
>Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
>false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
>a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
>know the truth as well.
There is a difference between disagreeing with and correcting somebody
and launching personal attacks at them. For one the former is actually
informative and helps the community.
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> I blame our western so-called-'civilized' Godless culture, the decline of
> family/community values, misapplied individualism ("I'm the centre of the
> Universe!"), children under 18 thinking they're adults (when they're still
> not able to wash their own clothes or cook a meal for themselves), & gross
> apathy in general. Or, it could just be a whole lot of fuckwits with nothing
> better to do. Take yer pick Jules...
Can I blame you for you calling me "Jules" all the time? ;)
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> "Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:40AB1E9D...@comcast.net...
>
> > I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
> > to be attacked for it.
>
> Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
> chime in on this thread.
You weren't paying attention. I said that I haven't *played* the game. I
hope I've purchased it, as I have the disks right next to my monitor.
I'm waiting on my housemate to fix the firewall so I can actually play
it.
As far as posting, I was reading the thread to see reactions about the
game. I saw Bob's post, and then I saw your post. My comments do not
require me to have played the game - that's an appeal to false
authority. If I had made an authoritative comment about game content
despite not having seen that content, then, sure, get pissy and
defensive. But I did not - I pointed out that if the layout in question
is indeed rare, then you're not likely to have seen it.
But that's beside the point - what this is *really* about is you trying
to stomp on Bob because Bob had a surprising to him amount of fun with
what looks like a milk run mission in the game and said so here. You're
screaming at him because you have what to prove, exactly?
> Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
> false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
> a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
> know the truth as well.
What truth? The completely subjective point of view that Bob found that
iteration of the mission fun? How can you determine a truth external to
his experience?
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.ma...@comcast.net> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
>
> >Nostromo wrote:
> >>
> >> >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
> >>
> >> And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
> >
> >I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
> >to be attacked for it.
>
> Maybe "Reg" is a frustrated griefer who hasn't been able to actually
> ruin anyones fun in-game, so he's venting on people here.
>
> After all, it's not like behaving like an asshole could get him banned
> from usenet as it might from a MMORPG.
True. It's not easy to get ISPs to TOS their users. Even if you do, half
of usenet treats you like you're some kind of Nazi.
Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
chainbreaker
>> just be a whole lot of fuckwits with nothing better to do. Take yer
>> pick Jules...
>
> Can I blame you for you calling me "Jules" all the time? ;)
It's a damsight nicer than what I've seen him call a lot of people. Just
accept it and be glad. :-)
--
chainbreaker
If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
chainbreaker
> True. It's not easy to get ISPs to TOS their users. Even if you do,
> half of usenet treats you like you're some kind of Nazi.
>
> Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the early game
at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have who've had missions
against them or run into any for that matter, are the "natural" heroes I've
built.
chainbreaker
> 'Infinite different layouts', does not, however, equate to 'infinite
> *interesting* layouts'.
Now *that's* a perfectly sensible observation. I'm almost positive I
haven't seen "identical" layouts--well, office layouts anyway--but that's
not quite the same thing as saying that they've all been different enough to
really matter. It's plenty enough to break up the monotony, though, and
some of the layouts I've seen could be really demanding if the right
kind/numbers of baddies were present, as I suspect they will be at higher
levels.
At any rate, there's at least as much variation in the door missions layouts
as what D2 has, so give credit for that.
Neil Cerutti
> Rob Berryhill <Rob_Be...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> In article <zBmqc.73541$xw3.4080347@attbi_s04>, x@x.x says...
>>> "Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
>
>>> > We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
>>> > I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep,
>>> > three-story office complex
>
>>> mission layout, save the hostages, 3 elevator floors are quite
>>> prevalent in this game.
>
>> I'm starting to think YOU are the one that doesn't play the game. Just
>> because it is in an office building with elevators does NOT mean it
>> has the same layout.
>
> True, but pretty much all office building layouts are
> incredibly similar, and are obviously constructed of similar
> elements, and there is only one or two different texture maps
> for office buildings too. They all pretty much look the same.
OK, so, the office buildings are quite realistic, then. ;)
> Same with any other map type. Any sewer map is the same as any
> other, for practical purposes. Any cave map is the same as any
> other, for practical purposes.
Er, right. I haven't seen too many unique-looking sewers either.
For a random, instanced location, an office building need only be
believable, and navigable, and tolerable.
Now, caves, that's something else. I haven't seen one, but I've
heard their pretty spectacular, at first.
>> In fact, I have played in MANY missions with unique to rare
>> layouts. Despite the few people whining about this, there are
>> in fact a great many different buildings, caves and layouts
>> for missions.
>
> In fact, I would go so far as to say that there is an infinite
> amount of different layouts available, as I'm sure the maps are
> somehow dynamically generated with a tile-like mechanism.
>
> 'Infinite different layouts', does not, however, equate to
> 'infinite *interesting* layouts'.
E.g., "Daggerfall." The worst case of random dungeons I've ever
seen; they made Nethack dungeons look small and mimetic.
--
Neil Cerutti
"The barbarian seated himself upon a stool at the wenches side, exposing
his body, naked save for a loin cloth brandishing a long steel broad
sword..." --The Eye of Argon
Xocyll
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:40AB1E9D...@comcast.net...
>
>> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>> to be attacked for it.
>
>Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
>chime in on this thread.
>
>Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
>false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
>a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
>know the truth as well.
Well I see your math skills art on par with the rest of your
comprehension.
What color is the sky on your planet where 20+17 = 47?
Ross Ridge
> Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
chainbreaker <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the early game
>at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have who've had missions
>against them or run into any for that matter, are the "natural" heroes I've
>built.
You can get 5th Column missions with any character origin at level
9 when you start getting contacts in Skyway City and Steel Canyon.
You also can find them spreading propaganda on the street in Steel Canyon.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>Xocyll wrote:
>>
>> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.ma...@comcast.net> looked up from reading the
>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
>> say:
>>
>> >Nostromo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Seriously Bob, did you buy your COH character off Ebay??
>> >>
>> >> And there goes another thread...*huge Shrek sigh*...
>> >
>> >I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>> >to be attacked for it.
>>
>> Maybe "Reg" is a frustrated griefer who hasn't been able to actually
>> ruin anyones fun in-game, so he's venting on people here.
>>
>> After all, it's not like behaving like an asshole could get him banned
>> from usenet as it might from a MMORPG.
>
>True. It's not easy to get ISPs to TOS their users. Even if you do, half
>of usenet treats you like you're some kind of Nazi.
>
>Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
They're a (pardon the language) fucking pain in the ass.
With the last iteration of Konnichiha (on Champion) I gave her a Natural
origin (even though it didn't fit the character) just so I could finally
meet up with these guys.
Sheesh, they are all kinds of mean even on the basic "clear out the
warehouse" type missions, with cold firing riflemen, melee types that do
insane levels of damage and there always seem to be an unterofficer or
two around with what seem to be auto-hit shotguns with very long range,
that did 20 points per hit on me - not good when you're an under level 5
blaster.
I'm staying well away from the natural origin for the foreseeable
future.
Gandalf Parker
berlin.de:
>> 'Infinite different layouts', does not, however, equate to
>> 'infinite *interesting* layouts'.
>
> E.g., "Daggerfall." The worst case of random dungeons I've ever
> seen; they made Nethack dungeons look small and mimetic.
>
But it does increase "staying power" which was the original topic. I
enjoyed Daggerfall alot longer than I did Morrowind. I would rather have
seen Daggerfall upgrade with some randomizer than Morrowinds designed
caves.
Gandalf Parker
chainbreaker
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>> Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
>
> chainbreaker <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the
>> early game at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have
>> who've had missions against them or run into any for that matter,
>> are the "natural" heroes I've built.
>
> You can get 5th Column missions with any character origin at level
> 9 when you start getting contacts in Skyway City and Steel Canyon.
> You also can find them spreading propaganda on the street in Steel
> Canyon.
>
> Ross Ridge
That explains a lot, then. I have an entire stable of level 6-8 characters,
but only a couple over 9, neither of which has spent much time in Steel
Canyon. One of these days I'm going to have to quit fooling around with the
basic characters sets and decide on one to level up a bit. :-)
Sean Kennedy
>
> "Samy Merchi" <sa...@iki.fi> wrote in message
> news:Xns94EE18D81...@130.232.1.14...
>
>> I find the caves the most horrifying in similarity; likely because
>> they're so twisting and turning that all the maps very easily blur
>> together in my mind. I find it incredibly difficult to know where I'm
>> going even just on one map, let alone distinguish between different
>> cave maps.
>
> Yeah, I always dread doing the "Rescue the Fortune Teller" mission, or
> whatever it's called. I've done it a couple of times and both times it
> was deep in a cave within Perez Park, fighting CoT. I don't mind CoT,
> they're not that tough, but the combination of those cave maps (whose
> levels are NUTS to decipher using the map tool) and the inpenetrable,
> non-intuitive layout of Perez Park always leaves me feeling
> frustrated. One of the misison choices I try and avoid as long as I
> can. I think it's part of the unraveling story arc tho so I always
> wind up facing it eventually.
>
> This game is so good in so many other respects, with some work adding
> to the variability of mission objectives and map layouts (and fixing
> that Mapserver disconnect issue, please!), a monster could be in the
> works.
>
Quick question (since you've seen the CoT cave missions) I have one now
that I can't complete because I can't find the named guy.
It's the one where you retrieve the "Hero Jewel". Your mission is to
"Defeat Jewel Thief and his gang and retrieve the Hero Jewel"
The cave layout starts with a large cave that has 2 levels. It has
3 corridors branching out from it, left, right and down. The left
and right ones go out, turn down, then turn back in again and meet
the down corridor in a 4-way junction. The Down corridor from there
goes into a long, narrow 2 level cavern with one exit (down) and
from there to a 3 way junction (back up, down and left). The left
corridor goes to a 3 way split that dead ends in 3 small caverns
(one or 2 with lava vents). The down goes to a 2 way split, down
and left, down is a small cavern with lava vents. Left is the really
big end cavern with 3 levels. The hero jewel is in a crate on the
middle level.
I have been over this thing top to bottom, front to back and not found
the named guy and finished the mission (and one or 2 more times they are
going to be green to me).
Is there a place where you click to move to a different level? Like in
buildings where you click elevators?
--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Vacationing in the south of Faydwer
for the forseeable future.
The Orang, 6th Level Tanker
an Laoch, 6th Level Tanker
Ben Sisson
name "Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov>:
>
>"Nostromo" <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
>news:0jqja0t8d3mtg0nue...@4ax.com...
>> Good, insightful post Bob. Get ready now for the inevitable cries of
>> 'fanboy'...>;-)
>
>Nah, nothing fanboyish about that. Looking up the definition of "Fanboy" in
>Sisson's Abridged, I see that it requires -- among other things -- an
>inability to recognize flaws in the game. That definitely ain't me.
You should get the unabridged version. Section 4, subsection C,
paragraph 6: Exception: A fanboy can be forced to recognize flaws in
their game - when cornered or when they are glaringly obvious - but in
doing so they must attempt to trivialize them ("oh, that bug only
affects one in a thousand people!"), marginalize the people bringing
it up ("besides, only 31337 d3wDz run into that bug."), and pump up
the company's efforts to remedy the situation ("You think the devs
don't know about the bug? It'll be fixed in a patch next week, wait
and see!").
Just clearing that up, not saying anything about this thread in
particular or anyone in it. :-p
--
"Bad enough when the dead come walking," he said to Jon as they crossed
the village, "now the Old Bear wants them talking as well? No good will
come of *that*, I'll warrant. And who's to say the bones wouldn't lie?
Why should death make a man truthful, or even clever? The dead are likely
dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my
gravestone should be larger, why does *he* get more worms than I do....'"
- Dolorous Edd Tollett, "Clash of Kings" (George R R Martin)
chainbreaker
> Is there a place where you click to move to a different level? Like
> in buildings where you click elevators?
What I've done to help me locate all the bad guys in multi-leveled areas
like some of the caves and office buildings have, is get in a mid-mid
location and continually click your TAB key to "auto-target" enemies while
slowly rotating your character as he/she looks up and down.
Reg LeCrisp
"Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10ale2n...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Come back and tell me how you feel once you hit 17 or 18, I suspect you
will
> see a difference.
No clue Bob...the only key changes you mentioned in your original post on
this thread was, triple layered office buildings, elevators, ambushes around
corners and save the hostages. Did I leave anything out?
So are you saying the walls are a different color now?
I don't know Bob. But from tallying this thread, it doesn't say much for
you when your main supporter in this thread is someone who hasn't even
bought the game.
It's okay to be an Ebay player Bob....
I am still awaiting for an answer to what is so unique about, Elevators,
triple floor office buildings, and save the hostages??
Thanks Bob, I await your answer......
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Ross Ridge wrote:
>> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>>> Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
>>
>> chainbreaker <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the
>>> early game at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have
>>> who've had missions against them or run into any for that matter,
>>> are the "natural" heroes I've built.
>>
>> You can get 5th Column missions with any character origin at level
>> 9 when you start getting contacts in Skyway City and Steel Canyon.
>> You also can find them spreading propaganda on the street in Steel
>> Canyon.
>>
>> Ross Ridge
>
>
>That explains a lot, then. I have an entire stable of level 6-8 characters,
>but only a couple over 9, neither of which has spent much time in Steel
>Canyon. One of these days I'm going to have to quit fooling around with the
>basic characters sets and decide on one to level up a bit. :-)
Hmm, how many possible different characters could you play?
Where's that manual.
OK
6 Primary Blaster powers and 5 secondary.
6/5 Controller
6/5 Defender
6/4 Scrapper
4/7 Tanker
So 30+30+30+24+28
142 different combinations, not counting the particular choices within
the skill sets or the power pool choices.
Ok, I figure you can probably screw around trying combinations for a few
months yet before you buckle down and get to work on leveling up one of
them.
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Neil Cerutti <hor...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2h19vuF7vd6qU1@uni-
I did as well.
But now that I think about it, I wonder how much of that was due to the
lack of any other game with randomization of any kind, and pretty much
no other games that let you make your own character class and items.
Xocyll
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>"Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in
There is no named Jewel Thief, you have to get the gem and nail all of
them.
>The cave layout starts with a large cave that has 2 levels. It has
>3 corridors branching out from it, left, right and down. The left
>and right ones go out, turn down, then turn back in again and meet
>the down corridor in a 4-way junction. The Down corridor from there
>goes into a long, narrow 2 level cavern with one exit (down) and
>from there to a 3 way junction (back up, down and left). The left
>corridor goes to a 3 way split that dead ends in 3 small caverns
>(one or 2 with lava vents). The down goes to a 2 way split, down
>and left, down is a small cavern with lava vents. Left is the really
>big end cavern with 3 levels. The hero jewel is in a crate on the
>middle level.
>
>I have been over this thing top to bottom, front to back and not found
>the named guy and finished the mission (and one or 2 more times they are
>going to be green to me).
>
>Is there a place where you click to move to a different level? Like in
>buildings where you click elevators?
Not in the caves no.
Check for little niches, and places in the ceiling in the big
multi-level open areas where there may be more critters.
I had one that I *thought* i'd searched top to bottom, but i'd missed
one tiny little niche at the bottom of one of the large rooms, that you
could only see from a certain angle, and sure enough a guard was in
there.
The caves are mighty pretty, but can be a real pain in the ass when you
have to kill (er arrest) everything in them.
chainbreaker
> Hmm, how many possible different characters could you play?
>
> Where's that manual.
> OK
> 6 Primary Blaster powers and 5 secondary.
> 6/5 Controller
> 6/5 Defender
> 6/4 Scrapper
> 4/7 Tanker
> So 30+30+30+24+28
> 142 different combinations, not counting the particular choices within
> the skill sets or the power pool choices.
>
> Ok, I figure you can probably screw around trying combinations for a
> few months yet before you buckle down and get to work on leveling up
> one of them.
>
> Xocyll
I better start playing faster then!
Neil Cerutti
> Gandalf Parker <gan...@most.of.my.favorite.sites> looked up from
> reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
> the signs say:
>
>>Neil Cerutti <hor...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2h19vuF7vd6qU1@uni-
>>berlin.de:
>>
>>>> 'Infinite different layouts', does not, however, equate to
>>>> 'infinite *interesting* layouts'.
>>>
>>> E.g., "Daggerfall." The worst case of random dungeons I've ever
>>> seen; they made Nethack dungeons look small and mimetic.
>>>
>>
>>But it does increase "staying power" which was the original
>>topic. I enjoyed Daggerfall alot longer than I did Morrowind. I
>>would rather have seen Daggerfall upgrade with some randomizer
>>than Morrowinds designed caves.
>
> I did as well.
Yes. I was sucked into Daggerfall like a virus into Windows XP.
But eventually the horrible random dungeons, random towns, and
dull story line drove me away.
The scores of newd wimmim everywhere even got boring, eventually.
After all, most of them were just sprites; ya couldna' lookit
their backsides! ;-)
> But now that I think about it, I wonder how much of that was
> due to the lack of any other game with randomization of any
> kind, and pretty much no other games that let you make your own
> character class and items.
No, there were already dozens of open source Hack clones they
could have based their dungeon randomizer on.
I'm not sure what to blame their mistake on, but I don't think
you can't chalk it up to pioneering.
If I had to guess, I think some programmer hot-shot wrote
something that was *cool*. The dungeons were large, 3D mazes;
the algorithm that made them must have been clever. But they
weren't playable. A more pedestrian design based on random 2D
levels connected by stairs, a la Hack, would have been boring to
code, but usable.
CJ
> This is the one question that keeps surfacing about this game. I find it
> funny, because it's like complaining "Well, yeah, this game may be fun NOW,
> but how long will THAT last"? LOL people will complain about anything on
> usenet. This game has its share of bugs and design flaws (Mapserver
> disconnect, anyone?) but I don't count against it the fact that people keep
> asking if there's "staying power".
>
> But it is a fair question. You'd like to think that an MMOG into which you
> pour significant investment will have some long term play value as a quid
> pro quo for the ongoing investment (both in time and dollars). But the
> "question" is beginning to sound like a complaint and the buzz I keep
> hearing on the street is starting to sound like damning with feint praise.
> "Yeah, great launch, fun game, but will it keep my interest?" Boggle.
>
> I don't really know how to evaluate the "complaint". What I do know is that
> I find myself compelled to log in every night and play, play, play, because
> my wife and I are having a great time. We are both level 17 with our current
> Heroes (we re-rolled after taking previous Heroes to 20) and mostly duo
> together, roaming the streets in seach of bad guys to kill and missions for
> our contacts. We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
> I'd never seen. We were winding our way through this deep, three-story
> and turning around corners and ambushes that kept us white-knuckled
> throughout. We had to save 7 hostages and free them, and this required
> locating them hidden away in all kinds of odd places and taking out the
> fun and required all of our best tactics to stay alive. As a Controller and
> Defender, we don't have a lot of damage dealing to our credit, and we were
> fighting the Tsoo, probably the most difficult mobs to fight at our level,
> and the battles were furious and fun. We failed the mission with 1 hostage
> to go :( but wow, what a fun experience. In the end, we didn't feel cheated,
> we felt disappointed! We let our contact down. :( Tonight we go back and
> take on the next mission from this contact and hopefully will redeem
> ourselves.
>
> I haven't heard anyone yet discuss the Task Force missions (mostly because
> they are still bugged and being fixed), and no discussion whatsoever of the
> Trials. Trials involve 50 or more players and seem like pretty extraordinary
> raid-like events. These are in game now and yet no one is talking about
> them, probably because no one posting here has experienced them. But the
> descriptions I've heard of these Trial events make them seem like they're
> going to be very challenging and require the cooperation of many
> Supergrouped heroes. Sounds like raiding to me.
>
> Seems to me that there's a lot of information still to come in on this
> question and the jury remains out. I've heard comments from people
> suggesting that now that someone has already hit level 40 and HE didn't have
> anything to add about endgame content, that's the end of story. Well, that
> would be comparable in my mind to concluding that EverQuest has no endgame
> either because a Rogue hit level 50 in just a few months after release and
I wanted so much to really like this game, but after playing in the
beta, I opted not to buy the real thing.
To me the game got real old real fast. Everything in the game boiled
down to the same thing: 1) Fight Mobs 2) Power up 3) Fight boss.
Reg LeCrisp
"CJ" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b1579359...@news-central.giganews.com...
>
> To me the game got real old real fast. Everything in the game boiled
> down to the same thing: 1) Fight Mobs 2) Power up 3) Fight boss.
Yes !
But you see wait til you get to level 18. That is when things <Really>
change. You see, that is when you will run into instanced missions where
you will come across 3 level office buildings (Not unlike the ones you see
at level 5 at Atlas Park)!!, Elevators even (Not unlike the same elevators
you see at level 4 in Galaxy City)!! and ambushes lurking around each
corner!! (wow!, ambushes? Usually when I goto the sewers or other missions
I have never gotten ambushed! *grins* Instead of 5 hostages you need to
save pre 18 levels, the missions gets ramped up to 7 !!
"Bob Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10ale2n...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Come back and tell me how you feel once you hit 17 or 18, I suspect you
> will see a difference.
"Bob 'I am a uber Fanboy' Perez" <ab...@fcc.gov> wrote in message
news:10aid36...@news.supernews.com...
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
> To me the game got real old real fast. Everything in the game boiled
> down to the same thing: 1) Fight Mobs 2) Power up 3) Fight boss.
Welcome to the wonderful and repetitive world of MMORPGs.
chainbreaker
> "CJ" <C...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1b1579359...@news-central.giganews.com...
>>
>> To me the game got real old real fast. Everything in the game boiled
>> down to the same thing: 1) Fight Mobs 2) Power up 3) Fight boss.
>
> Yes !
>
> But you see wait til you get to level 18. That is when things
> <Really> change. You see, that is when you will run into instanced
> missions where you will come across 3 level office buildings (Not
> unlike the ones you see at level 5 at Atlas Park)!!, Elevators even
> (Not unlike the same elevators you see at level 4 in Galaxy City)!!
> and ambushes lurking around each corner!! (wow!, ambushes? Usually
> when I goto the sewers or other missions I have never gotten
> ambushed! *grins* Instead of 5 hostages you need to save pre 18
> levels, the missions gets ramped up to 7 !!
I think you've made your point by now. You don't like it--we all understand
that.
Reg LeCrisp
"chainbreaker" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c8gbt...@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> I think you've made your point by now. You don't like it--we all
understand
> that.
Actually I like the game. It's fun.
If you come across my past threads regarding COH, I have praised it as well.
Unlike the blind fanboys I will discuss the games negative sides as well.
There are many lurkers here who rely on consumer reports like usenet boards
to get good honest feedback on games.
So far, no one has yet to refute my tarnished image towards that one area of
Bob's post regarding missions that he somehow miraculously have come upon at
level 18 composing of the unique elevators, amazing triple story office
buildings and yes RARE Ambushes!! Instead the fanboys and a consumer who
has not even purchased the game has decided to defend Bob because I trashed
that particular part of his post and called him a Fanboy.
You notice none of them have yet to refute my comments regarding the COH
game itself in terms of mission layouts? In their hearts they know it's
true, but the fanboyism in them just can't stand to fathom to openly say
that part of the game needs work.
Fanboys are usually blind to those things.
Samy Merchi
>>another abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll
>>scream.
> I ran into an awful variant of this last night. Got a mission from
> Carla something in Skyway. Seems one of the hottest nightclubs in
> town had a problem with gangmembers causing trouble and fighting, so I
> ws to head over and bust em all.
> Only the nightclub was a ruined factory/warehouse and the only
> lightshow came from my targeting drone.
Sigh. This is basically why I've more or less stopped reading the mission
descriptions. It's like they don't matter at all. Whatever it says in the
mission desc, you just end up going to a door, entering an awfully
familiar-looking map, and beating on baddies and clicking on glowy things.
It's always the same.
> I've seen quite a bit of variability in the office buildings,
> including some that almost seem like they're bigger on the inside than
> the outside with HUGE interior areas of almost mall proportions.
I think 95% of the maps are bigger on the inside than on the outside.
--
Samy Merchi | sa...@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/samy | #152235689
Reader of superhero comic books, writer of superhero fanfiction
"*Astrolabe*...whirls...*twirls*!"
Samy Merchi
> I really hope they splice in more tilesets so the (semi)random mission
> generators have more to work with.
> Rescue the movie star from the CoT that have invaded his palatial
> mansion.
> Clear the thugs from the Paragon Art Museum.
> Save the kiddies from the Vahz who've raided their elementary school.
> and so on.
This would help the game SO MUCH.
I'm not sure if they have the resources for something this big though. To
do something like this right, I imagine it'd have to be pretty work-
intensive.
Alexander Mars
>Date: 5/19/2004 12:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <wSOqc.78472$536.12942262@attbi_s03>
No, I have to agree that Bobs description of the missions was a bit breathless
and fawning. I like the missions and I prefer them to AO missions (AO mission
layouts have been improved, btw) but the warehouse/office mission locations do
get a bit old after playing through a few of them. I hope that in amidst of
the new content we get some new interiors.
As to ambushes, alas, that is bullshit. The range of perception on the NPCs
has been shortened up to the point that one can walk up on them without them
reacting. Unfortunately the devs wanted X number of badguys but did not want
to exceed Y amount of distance and area in a mission (in other words they
wanted a lot of badguys but did not want to make the mission areas too big),
this resulted in having to turn down the range of perception on the NPCs to the
point that they are pretty fucking blind and don't notice you slapping their
buddy 50 feet away (the alternative would be that any hero would be swarmed by
all badguys in visual range, making missions a bit difficult).
-Well, God was my co-pilot....but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat
Him.
www.atar.com/alexmars (yet another useless web site)
Alexander Mars
>Date: 5/19/2004 12:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <uwu38r...@broadpark.no>
I too find the complaint a bit fucking brainless, unless the poster has never
played any sort of MMORPG before.
Coby
> What is unique about this? anyone know? Seriously..Let's break it
> down..
FWIW, here's my single experience (at level 15, no less) with a unique layout:
It was the Wasting Disease mission and the interior looked nothing like a
standard office. It was a hi tech lab with ramps and rooms without ceilings
(some interesting tactical setups with those). There were many "wow" moments
due to the amazing variety of cool-looking gadgets and monitors and whatnot.
Less-than-wow moments accompanied my figuring out new tactics due to the
unique geography. However, the mission itself was exactly like every other
mission (i.e. kill a bunch of bad guys and/or click on shiny things).
IMO, it confirmed for me both everything that Bob likes about the game and
everything that you do not. As for me, I am definitely looking forward to
more of these things. I suspect they are a kind of reward for finishing
certain storylines, assuming the Wasting Disease mission is the last in this
series. The boss is too tough for me solo so I don't know yet!
--
Coby
"Every year civilization is invaded by millions of tiny barbarians-
they are called children." Hannah Arendt
Alexander Mars
>Date: 5/19/2004 1:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Xns94EEEBBAB...@130.232.1.14>
>
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
>
>> I really hope they splice in more tilesets so the (semi)random mission
>> generators have more to work with.
>> Rescue the movie star from the CoT that have invaded his palatial
>> mansion.
>> Clear the thugs from the Paragon Art Museum.
>> Save the kiddies from the Vahz who've raided their elementary school.
>> and so on.
>
>This would help the game SO MUCH.
>
>I'm not sure if they have the resources for something this big though. To
>do something like this right, I imagine it'd have to be pretty work-
>intensive.
>
New tileset pieces are not that hard to produce, they are just static art.
Adding new costume bits and matching animations is hard.
chainbreaker
> "chainbreaker" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:c8gbt...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> I think you've made your point by now. You don't like it--we all
>> understand that.
>
> Actually I like the game. It's fun.
Of course! I don't see how I could have missed it.
--
chainbreaker
Bob Perez
"Sean Kennedy" <x@y.z> wrote in message
news:Xns94EE5D...@207.225.159.8...
> Quick question (since you've seen the CoT cave missions) I have one now
> that I can't complete because I can't find the named guy.
>
> It's the one where you retrieve the "Hero Jewel". Your mission is to
> "Defeat Jewel Thief and his gang and retrieve the Hero Jewel"
I don't recall specifically, but Xocyll's comment about there being no named
Jewel Thief rings familiar. I generally kill every boss and Lieutenant I can
find and am occasionally surprised to learn that I've killed my target, I
think this was one of those.
I think one of the reasons I dread those cave maps is because they are
indeed difficult to navigate at the lower levels when you don't have travel
powers and those memories still haven't left me. ;-) I remember that I was
struggling with one of them (maybe yours) before I had hover or teleport and
spent a lot of time jumping up on rocks to access upper levels. Frustrating,
and at one point I fortuitously discovered some access point I'd previously
missed and shortly thereafter the mission was completed. It's a lot easier
now that I know this, and I haven't really had any trouble with cave maps
since, but we are creatures of habit and the bad memories linger ...
I'll second the suggestion that you very carefully explore these maps
because unlike the more geometric shapes found on other maps, these
amorphous cave maps often contain branches that can be easily missed if
you're moving too fast. Make a point to hug the walls to map out the
perimeters.
If you're still having trouble completing it and you see me in game, send me
a tell and an invite and I'll be happy to come check it out. It'd be fun to
hook up in game!
--
(The Daring) Hypnotist
"Things are not what they seem".
18th Level Controller (Illusion/Storm)
Citizen of the Protector Server - Paragon City
(The Legendary) Doc Justice
"Justice Heals All!"
20th Level Defender (Empathy/Radiation Blast)
Citizen of the Justice Server - Paragon City
Simon Nejmann
>"chainbreaker" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:c8gbt...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> I think you've made your point by now. You don't like it--we all
>understand
>> that.
>Actually I like the game. It's fun.
>
>If you come across my past threads regarding COH, I have praised it as well.
Great, good for you.
>Unlike the blind fanboys I will discuss the games negative sides as well.
>There are many lurkers here who rely on consumer reports like usenet boards
>to get good honest feedback on games.
And by this I take that you consider Bob Perez a fanboy?
>So far, no one has yet to refute my tarnished image towards that one area of
>Bob's post regarding missions that he somehow miraculously have come upon at
>level 18 composing of the unique elevators, amazing triple story office
>buildings and yes RARE Ambushes!!
From Bob:
**
We played a mission last night that introduced us to a new map
I'd never seen.
**
No, you and Reg are focusing on the generic "three floor elevator"
general layout as a common theme and you're right, they are. That was
not the intended focus of my comment. The actual allocation of
tilesets is randomly distributed so that there are indeed unique and
rare layouts.
**
The map I played in the mission described was completely unique (and
I'm guessing fairly rare, since I'd never seen it after playing to
level 20, and taking two alts to 18).
**
Yes, office layouts with 3 elevator floors are common at this level.
Nothing unique about that. However, if you are the more observant
type, you will notice that they have the kind of variability that was
present in the original dungeon layouts of Diablo for example.
**
The layout we experienced in this mission was wayyy different
than anything I'd seen previously
**
<answer to>: Door missions are all incredibly similar.
Yep, that's my biggest issue still with the game. I keep yearning for
more variability in missions, both in objectives and layout. If I see
another abandoned warehous map to search 4 artifacts, I think I'll
scream.
**
<sarcasm>
Oh yes, you have thoroughly shown that Bob is a fanboy that in no way
recognizes that tha missions in CoH are repetitive.
</sarcasm>
>Instead the fanboys and a consumer who
>has not even purchased the game has decided to defend Bob because I trashed
>that particular part of his post and called him a Fanboy.
Bob claims he ran into one (1) mission that had a so different layout
that he felt justified in calling it unique - you don't believe him.
You both, along with most others in this thread, agree that most/all
missions in CoH have very similar map layouts.
That is the length of it!
All us non-CoH players and "fanboys" are saying is:
Get over it - you disagree and so what! Stop the personal attacks -
they are boring, trite, annoying, and detracts from the thread.
>You notice none of them have yet to refute my comments regarding the COH
>game itself in terms of mission layouts? In their hearts they know it's
>true, but the fanboyism in them just can't stand to fathom to openly say
>that part of the game needs work.
>
>Fanboys are usually blind to those things.
Again: You have not in any way shown Bob to be a fanboy, and even if
you did, then he has shown enough openness towards the flaws of the
game to dispell the notion.
Also: Please stop the insults, they got boring long time ago and they
really kill any credibility you and your points have.
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Bob Perez
> Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
> This would help the game SO MUCH.
>
> I'm not sure if they have the resources for something this big though. To
> do something like this right, I imagine it'd have to be pretty work-
> intensive.
This game seems very well architected. The stability, the polish, it all
feels very solid. This suggests to me that there's probably a good
architectural foundation for the game and if so, one could imagine that the
scripting system they've created is extensible enough to make new mission
creation easy. That certainly would have been one of my required design
goals in speccing out the game, a solid set of mission creation tools that
could be used by the development team and later released to the public as a
mission editor. Let's hope this is the case and they put it to work.
Opportunity is knocking.
Simon Nejmann
wrote:
>"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>
>>"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:40AB1E9D...@comcast.net...
>>
>>> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>>> to be attacked for it.
>>
>>Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
>>chime in on this thread.
>>
>>Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
>>false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
>>a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
>>know the truth as well.
>
>Well I see your math skills art on par with the rest of your
>comprehension.
>
>What color is the sky on your planet where 20+17 = 47?
To be fair:
<quote from Bob>
The map I played in the mission described was completely unique (and
I'm guessing fairly rare, since I'd never seen it after playing to
level 20, and taking two alts to 18).
</quote from Bob>
20 + 2*18 = 46.
Ok, its not 47, but maybe he leveled up... :)
--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Nostromo
Domini:
>Yes. I was sucked into Daggerfall like a virus into Windows XP.
*Guffaw*! (nearly spat cereal all over monitor - tx! ;-)
--
Replace 'spamfree' with ('k__umcgl_' + ascii 123456789) to reply via email.
Bob Perez
"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> wrote in message
news:5XMqc.80133$xw3.4462551@attbi_s04...
> Thanks Bob, I await your answer......
<laughter>
I'm curious. Just exactly how often are you checking usenet an hour to see
when I've posted?
<still laughing>
Nostromo
-0400, Anno Domini:
>Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>>> just be a whole lot of fuckwits with nothing better to do. Take yer
>>> pick Jules...
>>
>> Can I blame you for you calling me "Jules" all the time? ;)
>
>It's a damsight nicer than what I've seen him call a lot of people. Just
>accept it and be glad. :-)
What he said Jules ;-)
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
>"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
>spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>
>>"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:40AB1E9D...@comcast.net...
>>
>>> I have to wonder why, when someone says "I had fun with this," he needs
>>> to be attacked for it.
>>
>>Probably the same reason someone who has never even bought the game needs to
>>chime in on this thread.
>>
>>Look at it this way. If some rpg game review came up with this kind of
>>false mission information that Bob the fanboy decided to share with us after
>>a combined 47 levels of play, I think many in the community would want to
>>know the truth as well.
>
>Well I see your math skills art on par with the rest of your
>comprehension.
>
>What color is the sky on your planet where 20+17 = 47?
>
>Xocyll
And here endeth the lesson...>8^D
Nostromo
-0400, Anno Domini:
>Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
>> True. It's not easy to get ISPs to TOS their users. Even if you do,
>> half of usenet treats you like you're some kind of Nazi.
>>
>> Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
>
>I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the early game
>at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have who've had missions
>against them or run into any for that matter, are the "natural" heroes I've
>built.
Best thing about teaming with people - I've seen missions from all 5(?) diff
villain archetypes, with only really a couple chars.
Nostromo
-0400, Anno Domini:
>Xocyll wrote:
>> Hmm, how many possible different characters could you play?
>>
>> Where's that manual.
>> OK
>> 6 Primary Blaster powers and 5 secondary.
>> 6/5 Controller
>> 6/5 Defender
>> 6/4 Scrapper
>> 4/7 Tanker
>> So 30+30+30+24+28
>> 142 different combinations, not counting the particular choices within
>> the skill sets or the power pool choices.
>>
>> Ok, I figure you can probably screw around trying combinations for a
>> few months yet before you buckle down and get to work on leveling up
>> one of them.
>>
>> Xocyll
>
>I better start playing faster then!
My sentiments exactly gents!
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
>Samy Merchi <sa...@iki.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Nostromo <nost...@spamfree.net.au> wrote in
>>
>>> You gotta get past the rpg-materialistic "stuff" CB...it's the people
>>> & the pure fun that should be first & foremost in a mmog. I still for
>>> the life of me don't understand ppl who play mmogs & solo most of the
>>> time...:-/
>>
>>What I'd like best is having this engine, and a non-MMO, story-based RPG
>>around it.
>>
>>To hell with the other players, I want a cool story.
>
>That works too, plus there's be no more mapserver disconnects.
>
>I just miss the destructible terrain and using cars/mailboxes/signposts
>etc as weapons from Freedom Force.
>
>Of course in an MMORPG setting it's no wonder there's no destructible
>terrain or there wouldn't BE a city anymore. :)
>
>Where's my contact? Under that pile of rubble over there.
>Where's the Trainer? Under that large pile of rubble over there.
>
>I do kind of miss the _EXTREME_ knockback you could get in Freedom Force
>too. At one point i'd made a character whose main attack did almost no
>damage but had max knockback force and would send man size critters
>bouncing off buildings and landing blocks away.
>Of course it didn't work at all on the larger and heavier things. :(
>
>Xocyll
Must...get...FF...back...from...that...kid...arggghhhhh!!@#@%$#^%$^%$$
Nostromo
Domini:
And narcissists are usually sexually impotent.
Is that you Cleve?
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> >> just be a whole lot of fuckwits with nothing better to do. Take yer
> >> pick Jules...
> >
> > Can I blame you for you calling me "Jules" all the time? ;)
>
> It's a damsight nicer than what I've seen him call a lot of people. Just
> accept it and be glad. :-)
Well, I had to come up with some reason to blame him, y'know?
--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.ma...@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> > half of usenet treats you like you're some kind of Nazi.
> >
> > Speaking of Nazis, how about those 5th Column?
>
> I think they're the most entertaining foes in the game--well, the early game
> at least. Only problem is, the only characters I have who've had missions
> against them or run into any for that matter, are the "natural" heroes I've
> built.
See, I'm looking at designing a mutant scrapper (a tabletop character),
a magic blaster (another tabletop character), and who knows what else. I
need to fit a natural into that.
If my housemate would fix the damned firewall, I'd be able to find out!
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> E.g., "Daggerfall." The worst case of random dungeons I've ever
> seen; they made Nethack dungeons look small and mimetic.
I started using [ and ] to cycle through quest locations in the random
dungeons, simply because it became very boring to explore them.
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> You can get 5th Column missions with any character origin at level
> 9 when you start getting contacts in Skyway City and Steel Canyon.
> You also can find them spreading propaganda on the street in Steel Canyon.
Yay! :) I like punching Nazis.
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> They're a (pardon the language) fucking pain in the ass.
>
> With the last iteration of Konnichiha (on Champion) I gave her a Natural
> origin (even though it didn't fit the character) just so I could finally
> meet up with these guys.
>
> Sheesh, they are all kinds of mean even on the basic "clear out the
> warehouse" type missions, with cold firing riflemen, melee types that do
> insane levels of damage and there always seem to be an unterofficer or
> two around with what seem to be auto-hit shotguns with very long range,
> that did 20 points per hit on me - not good when you're an under level 5
> blaster.
>
> I'm staying well away from the natural origin for the foreseeable
> future.
Okay, that doesn't sound fun.
Incidentally, I'll probably be on Champion myself, as I have friends
there. :)
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> But it does increase "staying power" which was the original topic. I
> enjoyed Daggerfall alot longer than I did Morrowind. I would rather have
> seen Daggerfall upgrade with some randomizer than Morrowinds designed
> caves.
I'm completely the opposite. I much preferred Morrowind for the lack of
sprawling dungeons.
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> I don't know Bob. But from tallying this thread, it doesn't say much for
> you when your main supporter in this thread is someone who hasn't even
> bought the game.
As opposed to the main critic, who's both innumerate and illiterate
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Unlike the blind fanboys I will discuss the games negative sides as well.
> There are many lurkers here who rely on consumer reports like usenet boards
> to get good honest feedback on games.
There aren't any blind fanboys in this thread, although there is a guy
who's angry at Bob Perez for having fun.
> So far, no one has yet to refute my tarnished image towards that one area of
> Bob's post regarding missions that he somehow miraculously have come upon at
> level 18 composing of the unique elevators, amazing triple story office
> buildings and yes RARE Ambushes!! Instead the fanboys and a consumer who
> has not even purchased the game has decided to defend Bob because I trashed
> that particular part of his post and called him a Fanboy.
I bought the game, I told you that already. However, since you are an
idiot, you seem to be unable to catch that.
Incidentally, pointing out that you're acting like a socially
maladjusted bottom-feeder isn't quite the same as defending Bob. It's
simply pointing out that you're acting like a socially maladjusted
bottom feeder.
> You notice none of them have yet to refute my comments regarding the COH
> game itself in terms of mission layouts? In their hearts they know it's
> true, but the fanboyism in them just can't stand to fathom to openly say
> that part of the game needs work.
How could I comment on that part? I haven't seen it. I'm commenting on
your lack of social skills. You know, those things you don't use.
Nostromo
22:07:24 GMT, Anno Domini:
>If my housemate would fix the damned firewall, I'd be able to find out!
See? There are things girls can't do for themselves - NOOCH! >8^p~~~ *duck*
Ross Ridge
> You can get 5th Column missions with any character origin at level
> 9 when you start getting contacts in Skyway City and Steel Canyon.
> You also can find them spreading propaganda on the street in Steel Canyon.
Julie d'Aubigny <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Yay! :) I like punching Nazis.
Be careful, they punch back.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Bob Perez
"Alexander Mars" <alex...@aol.comspamnerf> wrote in message
news:20040519161022.12689.00001073@mb- like the >
> As to ambushes, alas, that is bullshit. The range of perception on the
NPCs
> has been shortened up to the point that one can walk up on them without
them
> reacting.
Looks like another example of something that some of you have yet to
experience. See what I mean about the variability? ;-)
I recall one office mission, for example, where there was a lower level
accessible via two staircases on opposite sides of the floor. I peered down
into the lower level to scope out what was below and saw where the stairway
opposite me across the room emerged on the floor below. The image registered
on my mind and I took the stairway next to me, in order to set up to hit the
mobs in the center of the room below. I walked down the stairway (which took
a 180 degree turn) and turned around the final corner about to emerge into
the center. Even though I had been easily near enough to trigger proximity
aggro, the mobs there (a yellow lieutenant and a white minion) sprang on me
as soon as I rounded the corner and I was forced to engage off guard. That's
the ambush I was talking about.
Now, what *probably* happened is that the mobs simply didn't notice me
because their backs were turned from my direction and they were patrolling
in a pattern that resulted in spotting me once I got right on them. Another
possibility is that they scan for aggro periodically and do a check that
either passes or fails and suddenly I triggered a pass while close.
Something similar happens if I'm stealthed in a Steamy Mist and I get too
close a mob, there's a chance that aggro will trigger.
Whatever the cause, the effect is that I was suprised by mobs that were
strategically located in a place likely to surprise me, and the result was
an ambush and it worked to great effect. Anytime I see a layout similar to
this, I'm careful now to look across the room below and attempt to go down a
side that is visibly clear from inspection.
Bob Perez
"Reg LeCrisp" <x@x.x> wrote in message
> So far, no one has yet to refute my tarnished image
Actually, I did refute most of your non-observations and I could disassemble
the rest, but .. /shrug, why bother? It's pretty evident from your messages
that you're not really interested in a discussion. You're on a futile
Crusade. ;-)
Looking over the replies from others to your message, it's pretty clear that
you've done a far better job of discrediting yourself than I could manage,
if I even bothered to. So, I'll leave it at that and thank you for saving me
the effort.
Again, my condolences for your situation. I really didn't intend to tarnish
your image (lol) or embarass you so publicly, but this is what sometimes
happens when you fall over yourself looking to jump on a bandwagon. In your
sycophantic rush to nail a "fanboy" you just picked the wrong horse and now
have to run off and lick your wounds because you're not getting the support
you expected. :( Next time, consider waiting for a more appropriate target.
That, or work on your flaming/trolling skills. I don't think I'd award more
than D+ on this effort.
Ross Ridge
>a magic blaster (another tabletop character), and who knows what else. I
>need to fit a natural into that.
Well, natural can encompasses a lot of things if you want. An alien
from a different planet or dimension (parallel universes are standard
part of the games background) could be consider natural if his abilities
are normal for a (highly trained) member of his species.
The origins don't mean much in the game so there's plenty of room for
handwaving. One of my characters is a natural scrapper. She happens
to have the Teleport Foe power, so how does she do it? She happened
to find a magic device thats gives here the power. Does that make her
really a magic origin character? No, all her other powers are the result
intense training, totally natural, just extraordinary.
>If my housemate would fix the damned firewall, I'd be able to find out!
Try fixing it yourself. Worse case your housemate will have an incentive
to resolve your problem more quickly.
Ross Ridge
> Sheesh, they are all kinds of mean even on the basic "clear out the
> warehouse" type missions, with cold firing riflemen, melee types that do
> insane levels of damage and there always seem to be an unterofficer or
> two around with what seem to be auto-hit shotguns with very long range,
> that did 20 points per hit on me - not good when you're an under level 5
> blaster.
Julie d'Aubigny <kali.ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Okay, that doesn't sound fun.
They're really not a problem. They're one of my favourite enemies to
fight, and really when you're under level 5 all enemies are easy to
fight regarless of your archetype.