Re: So, EA/BioWare have renamed it to "Dragon Age: Origins"
Nostromo
07:38:46 +0200 (CEST), Anno Domini:
>The first game in the series now has a title worthy of an expansion pack.
>
></indefensible peeve>
Bioware have pretty much relegated themselves to the "large corporate
franchise-milking consolitis has-beens" bucket, with nothing creative or
innovative since the BG series (& even that wasn't so shining new, just came
at the right time after a long crpg drought).
</carefactor0>
--
Nostromo
Memnoch
I played and finished Mass Effect last week. Not a bad game but I found it to
similar to the KOTOR games to be considered some kind of evolution in gaming.
JAB
I'm on my second run through already - 22 hours first time ... certainly
not a new genre but worth a play anyway. A good blend of action/RPG but
can be a bit heavy on the action side and probably not enough
interesting side quests to do.
Ted H.
I liked Neverwinter Nights. The actual game/official campaign was
garbage, but my friends and I had a lot of fun with the multiplayer
and toolset. (YMMV, clearly)
JAB
... but when was the last time something truly different came along it
just not that easy to do :-)
It's easy to say companies should be innovative, different etc. etc. but
someone has to pay the bills! I agree that companies should be trying
something different so I suppose what I would like to see is developers
still producing their bread-and-butter safe releases but also being
given the chance to either royally screw-up or come out with something
genuinely good that may even sell.
Warewolf
news:j7oek.148741$Kb....@newsfe29.ams2:
> Nostromo wrote:
>
>> Bioware have pretty much relegated themselves to the "large corporate
>> franchise-milking consolitis has-beens" bucket, with nothing creative
>> or innovative since the BG series (& even that wasn't so shining new,
>> just came at the right time after a long crpg drought).
>
> ... but when was the last time something truly different came along?
> It's just not that easy to do :-)
Actually, I think you'll find that some of us have the *imagination* to
succeed but not all of the resources or time to bring these 'innovative
ideas' to fruition.
(I could post a description for a non-child-safe virtual pet to prove my
point, if you'd like) ^_^;
> It's easy to say companies should be innovative, different etc. etc.
> but someone has to pay the bills! I agree that companies should be
> trying something different so I suppose what I would like to see is
> developers still producing their bread-and-butter safe releases but
> also being given the chance to either royally screw-up or come out
> with something genuinely good that may even sell.
Part of the problem, in my eyes, is oversaturation - there are a lot of
FPSs and RTSs and MMOs all providing pretty much the same goals with
different obstacles. (Which isn't a bad thing...necessarily)
In fact, what is enticing me at the moment on my 2.8 GHz P4 with 2GB of RAM
is a simple DOS game called 'Lollypop'. It's not an easy game by any
stretch (and, I'm sure that guiding a pig-tailed wind-up doll would garner
its share of mockery) but I'm having more fun with this game than I've had
with most modern retail titles. The controls are tight, the animation is
liquidsmooth and the music...mmmmmmarvelous.
Then again, what helps this title (aside from its *ahem* availability) is
the amount of detail and variety the designers put into each level - the
toys and paint cans in the first level, the rain in the forest area...you
could probably write a story or two on the origin(s) of 'Spooksville'
alone.
And it is this sort of ingenuity that is causing me to feel sorry for the
retailers in my area, if not more than a little peeved at the makers of bad
games and other software. 9_9
*glares at the makers of GameGuard*
We could all provide suggestions that could 'save the industry at large'
but, chances are, that 'virtual universe to explore', that 'hyper-moddable
racing game', that 'cool platform game with a sexy chick' has already been
made.
*wonders why Duckman and Jazz 2: the Secret Files never made it to North
America* 9_9
Oh well, 'corporate logic' and all that. ^_^;
Signed,
Warewolf
who has been enjoying some Boulder Dash and Sokoban clones, as well. ^_^
(Shame about Sokomind) T_T
JAB
> JAB <noch...@nohope.com> wrote in
> news:j7oek.148741$Kb....@newsfe29.ams2:
>
>> Nostromo wrote:
>>
>>> Bioware have pretty much relegated themselves to the "large corporate
>>> franchise-milking consolitis has-beens" bucket, with nothing creative
>>> or innovative since the BG series (& even that wasn't so shining new,
>>> just came at the right time after a long crpg drought).
>> ... but when was the last time something truly different came along?
>> It's just not that easy to do :-)
>
> Actually, I think you'll find that some of us have the *imagination* to
> succeed but not all of the resources or time to bring these 'innovative
> ideas' to fruition.
>
> (I could post a description for a non-child-safe virtual pet to prove my
> point, if you'd like) ^_^;
>
Have you tried Spore creator creator?
Greg Johnson
>Have you tried Spore creator creator?
Is that a God sim?
Warewolf
news:2Hrek.149517$Kb.1...@newsfe29.ams2:
> Have you tried Spore creature creator?
Actually, no, I haven't and the Securom copy protection scheme is making me
a little itchy about trying it. ^_^;
(It's probably not as bad as Starforce but still...)
And although the final game's tools *look* versatile enough, I'd have to
see how it handles certain 'handicaps' and 'builds' in the animation and AI
departments before I 'bask in its unadulterated brilliance'. ^-^
If the game universe can be inhabited/conquered by 50' fembots or latex-
clad vixens with foot-hands, I may give it a look.
Then again, I'm sure that there are a lot of other interests that can be
catered to, including the nostalgia of certain animated series. ~_^
Signed,
Warewolf
who can see Irken, Rulon and Glorft forces contesting a planet already. ~_^
Warewolf
news:q99l749dq9oudfirm...@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:19:30 +0100, JAB <noch...@nohope.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you tried Spore creator creator?
>
> Is that a God sim?
Actually it's a sample of an upcoming one. ^_^
The program allows you to make your own lifeforms from a variety of parts
and, once assembled, the program animates your creature, causing it to
dance, show emotions and bear children.
The final product is also supposed to allow you to guide your creature(s),
make your own cities and items and conquer/terraform other planets in its
virtual universe.
You can even share the creatures and objects you create with other users.
(although there has been some contraversy raised about the copy protection
scheme that EA is planning to use on it.) 9_9
You can find out more about the program via Google or Wikipedia and see
some of the creatures people have come up with via YouTube.
(I'd have to see if lobster-clawed supermodels are a lifeform option before
I buy it, though) ^_^;
Signed,
Warewolf
who, needless to say, has particular taste(s) in fantasy women.
(TMI, I know) ~_^
JAB
LOL!
Nostromo
I probably should have included the NWN (sans OC of course), but does
giving us a framework (albeit a great one) to write our own games a
great game make...? :-/
ME is a dubious success which just shows that if you throw enough money
& eye candy into a title, you can get by with average 'nothing new'
gameplay & keep most people happy. That's not to say all large
productions have been shit, but most are just formulaic now.
Me, I'd rather play Jeff Vogel's next game with 16 bit sprites or a 5-yr
old mmo like SWG than put up with more of the same shit from the big boys.
--
Nostromo
JAB
I was more thinking for your "non-child-safe virtual pet" ... see for
example www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMjWIkobuA8 :-)
Nostromo
Well...yes! If only 1 in 10 titles was 'out there' & took a chance, I
suspect we'd all be much happier campers as a result. As it stands,
we're lucky to see something really _new_ out of every 1000+ titles once
every couple years I reckon. The last crpg to grab me that had something
new or at least packaged it all up in a new-ish manner was The Witcher
(not saying it's without its flaws of course); before that LOTRO
breathed a bit of fresh air into mmos just for demanding some basic
literacy :); before that maybe VTMB or Guild Wars did something
different succesfully; OpFlash or Nexus:TJI, successful or not, stood
out for me. Personally, I'd rather have innovative surprises or at least
attempts at something different/fresh once in a while, which turns out
to be an average game, than same old same old that all turn out to be
average games (at best).
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Sounds great in theory...but so did Black & White, lest we forget ;-p
--
Nostromo
Briarroot
Right. Given the huge cost of development, which can run to tens of
millions these days, it only makes sense that game developers aim their
creations at the lowest common *successful* denominator. The higher the
production costs the greater the economic risk of failure, and that
naturally tends to skew the target demographic towards the broader end
of the spectrum; meaning retreads, sequels and clones of games that have
sold well in the past. For MMOGs, development costs can run ten times
greater, which tends to make them even *worse* when it comes to innovation.
Years ago, when game developments costs were but a fraction of what they
are now, we witnessed an explosion of innovation in PC game design.
Hundreds of innovative games were released in the 1980s and 90s, and
those whose success stood head and shoulders above all the others, like
games from designers such as Richard Garriott, Jon Van Caneghem, Sid
Meier, Will Wright, John Carmack and John Romero, are now the models
which Big Business Game Development 2008 hopes to duplicate.
If you're looking for innovation, and innovation in and of itself isn't
*always* a Good Thing, then look to small independent developers, not
the major publishers.
--
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or
the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to
their own interest." - Adam Smith
Wolfing
> Warewolf wrote:
> > JAB <nocha...@nohope.com> wrote in
I haven't tried it, nor am really interested in the creator. It's like
City of Heroes, for many people half the game was just creating
charactes... I could care less. That's why I'm thinking, intrigued as
I am about it, that I won't really see the 'point' of the game. I'll
probably make some random walking blob and play the game through once
(I think I read that a full playthrough would last like 8 hours or
so). But once I go through it once, I don't think I'll be playing it
again with another random walking blob. I also really don't care that
the other random walking blobs in my game were made by dudes all over
the world instead of the developers... what difference will that make?
Mark Morrison
wrote:
<snip>
>
>ME is a dubious success which just shows that if you throw enough money
>& eye candy into a title, you can get by with average 'nothing new'
>gameplay & keep most people happy. That's not to say all large
>productions have been shit, but most are just formulaic now.
>
>Me, I'd rather play Jeff Vogel's next game with 16 bit sprites or a 5-yr
>old mmo like SWG than put up with more of the same shit from the big boys.
I don't demand innovation from games - I just want them to be fun.
Same as books - I like reading series containing a main character, or
cast of characters. As long as the books remain good entertainment,
I'll keep buying them.
I think the 3DFX revolution harmed PC gaming in someways - sequels (of
any type of game) had to be grander and flashier than the previous
game. It seemed to me after a few years, that if a game did well, but
the company couldn't afford to develop a whole new engine, they gave
up.
I can't remember the last time I played a game and it's sequel that
used the same gfx engine.
Wolfing
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:05:00 +1000, Nostromo <nostr...@nospam.org>
Agree 100% with you and I was thinking just that same thing a day or 2
ago. I remember Pools of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, and a
whole bunch of other games using pretty much the same engine, yet were
different games which I enjoyed them all.
I guess you could argue that NWN user-created modules are like that,
but I don't think so. I'm talking full games using the same engine,
just different rules, stories, characters, NPC interaction, etc.
Although I do require some graphic update. I started Wiz 8 a couple of
weeks ago and it showed its age. But, couldn't that same engine be
used today with higher-polygon characters? I would be happy with just
that!
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Agree 100% with you and I was thinking just that same thing a day or 2
>ago. I remember Pools of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, and a
>whole bunch of other games using pretty much the same engine, yet were
>different games which I enjoyed them all.
>I guess you could argue that NWN user-created modules are like that,
>but I don't think so. I'm talking full games using the same engine,
>just different rules, stories, characters, NPC interaction, etc.
>Although I do require some graphic update. I started Wiz 8 a couple of
>weeks ago and it showed its age. But, couldn't that same engine be
>used today with higher-polygon characters? I would be happy with just
>that!
I'd have loved Wiz 9 and 10 right after 8 :)
Ross Ridge
>I can't remember the last time I played a game and it's sequel that
>used the same gfx engine.
Hmm... Knights of the Old Republic II uses essentially the same engine
as the original game. I can't really think of any other games.
Neverwinter Nights 2 engine was updated a fair bit from Neverwinter
Nights 2.
It's too bad more games didn't do this. A Deus Ex sequel released a
year or so after the first game with essentially the same engine would've
been amazing.
Thinking about it more, I guess all those sports games released every
year reuse the same game engine.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
Dauphin de Viennois
news:6num741rkr02k9n2d...@4ax.com:
> I don't demand innovation from games - I just want them to be fun.
>
> Same as books - I like reading series containing a main character, or
> cast of characters. As long as the books remain good entertainment,
> I'll keep buying them.
>
> I think the 3DFX revolution harmed PC gaming in someways - sequels (of
> any type of game) had to be grander and flashier than the previous
> game. It seemed to me after a few years, that if a game did well, but
> the company couldn't afford to develop a whole new engine, they gave
> up.
>
> I can't remember the last time I played a game and it's sequel that
> used the same gfx engine.
Well, they always have the option of licensing a graphics engine from a
company like ID or Valve. Lots of games would be better if they did just
that. Gothic3 would have been a much better game if they licensed someone
elses graphics engine and concentrated on the game content instead.
TheSmokingGnu
> Sounds great in theory...but so did Black & White, lest we forget ;-p
Wait, what was wrong with Black & White? I thought it was a pretty
decent game, all considered.
TheSmokingGnu
Raymond Martineau
The most important issue with Black & White is emotional (i.e. the
game is boring, etc.) This is a strongly subjective opinion that
can't really be argued away.
With my experience with the game, I was wondering how you are supposed
to complete the campaign without resorting to "working the game
mechanics". While I can understand that an enemy god can easily
reinforce faith, the amount of time required to claim villages was
quite massive even if I was significantly faster than the computer. I
had to take a certain tactic to the extreme - evacuate an entire
village, and place one disciple in that village.
I haven't played it in a long time, but adjusting some of the game
mechanics would have made it a bit more interesting.
Nostromo
>> Have you tried Spore creator creator?
>
> I haven't tried it, nor am really interested in the creator. It's like
> City of Heroes, for many people half the game was just creating
> charactes... I could care less. That's why I'm thinking, intrigued as
> I am about it, that I won't really see the 'point' of the game. I'll
> probably make some random walking blob and play the game through once
> (I think I read that a full playthrough would last like 8 hours or
> so). But once I go through it once, I don't think I'll be playing it
> again with another random walking blob. I also really don't care that
> the other random walking blobs in my game were made by dudes all over
> the world instead of the developers... what difference will that make?
Dude, you do know what the "R" in csipgr stands for, right? ;-p
Hey, if you like roleplaying walking blobs, more power to ya, but if you
don't like associating with your character at all, where's the RP value
I ask? :-/
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Yes & no. I'm yet to see an outdoor engine that renders as beautifully &
'realistically' at great distances as G3 does, warts & all.
--
Nostromo
Wolfing
Spore as an RPG it didn't occur to me, but it is! It's the ultimate
RPG you're so right!
I mean, 99% RPGs let you roleplay a dude or a girl, but how many RPGs
let you roleplay an amoeba? I can only imagine using my +3 pseudopod
of fire now, the uberness!
When is Spore coming out? I need it!
Warewolf
b5d989...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> I mean, 99% RPGs let you roleplay a dude or a girl, but how many RPGs
> let you roleplay an amoeba?
I think there's an RRRRRPG out there that will let you play a group of
triangles fighting other shapes. ^_^;
http://www.tigsource.com/articles/2006/09/25/vertical-rrrrrpg
But I'll stick with the 'traditional' elf-chicks vs mind-flayers with
roboticizing ray-guns storyline, thank you. ^-^
Signed,
Warewolf
The shows in my mind are almost always better. -- The Maxx
...but the games in my mind are no slouch either. ~_^
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Wolfing <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I mean, 99% RPGs let you roleplay a dude or a girl, but how many RPGs
>let you roleplay an amoeba? I can only imagine using my +3 pseudopod
>of fire now, the uberness!
Not to pile on, but Seventh Cross on the Dreamcast started you off as a
single-celled organism. You had to consume other lifeforms and absorb
their traits and abilities in a graphical exercise of applied genetics. I
found it interesting, but the general gaming public didn't seem to dig it.
>When is Spore coming out? I need it!
I don't. Electronic Arts can go hang. I'm still waiting for them to
apologize in public to Richard Garriott, or at least to release a copy of
the Ultima Collection that isn't missing hundreds of data files.
-KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
can run on this thing?
--
-- Home of the amphibious hybrids! Buy your next car from | kendrick
Innsmouth Auto, on Highway 128 just before the old pier. | @ io.com
Where our goal is to sell you a 'Dagon' good automobile! |
Warewolf
news:i3Cek.32292$xs1....@newsfe28.ams2:
> I was more thinking for your "non-child-safe virtual pet"
It was just something I posted in a forum once... ^_^;;
(Someone wanted to make a video game and was looking for strange ideas)
Basically, the player would be given a female template, be able to alter
it as he/she saw fit (ie by adding and removing body parts, using
'spells' to turn her into things and using items like glue or a needle
and thread to bind her in some ways...) and take the character through a
variety of randomly generated scenarios.
(One area could be a platform game with taffy floors and candy cane
ladders that she could get stuck on; another could have her smashing
buildings as a giant)
Over time, the character would get used to the player's idea(s) and
possibly enjoy them. And the more satisfied she became, the more she
rewarded the player. ~_^
Not everyone on the forum liked the idea (the regulars of another forum
*LOVED* it) but I think that there is a (niche) market for this type of
game. ^_^
I mean, stomping on goombas and blasting aliens *is* fun but
oversaturation has started to make it 'old-hat'. Allowing your audience
to forget their troubles and fulfill their greatest fantasies - *THERE'S*
a challenge and one that, *appropriately rated* can be completed, so to
speak.
*glares at Hillary Clinton and Jack Thompson*
Anyway, I'll let you judge this idea for yourself.
While I have no doubt that Spore will be a success, there will also be
players who will be disappointed that they can't make their own 'Mushroom
Kingdom' or 'Supermodel Paradise'.
Signed,
Warewolf
and just for the record, the fan-game I mentioned, 'A Boy and his
Howitzer', was never completed 9_9
(It was for fun, anyway) ~_^
Memnoch
I think Age of Conan does this and better too, although by the devs own
admission they are working to make this more accessible to people with lower
spec machines. But if you have the hardware, it is a truly stunning game at
times.
Justisaur
> JAB <nocha...@nohope.com> wrote innews:i3Cek.32292$xs1....@newsfe28.ams2:
>
> While I have no doubt that Spore will be a success, there will also be
> players who will be disappointed that they can't make their own 'Mushroom
> Kingdom' or 'Supermodel Paradise'.
I played a little bit with the creature creator. I was disappointed
there were no invertebrates. I hope there will be in the full game,
but I doubt it. I was hoping to make a squibbon or something. It
looks very limited, and extremely cutesy. Probably something a child
would enjoy, but I have doubts it will be enjoyable for adults,
especially jaded ones like me.
- Justisaur
Nostromo
Ok, ok, eaaaaasy does it there big fella! ;)
No need to be sar-cas-tic - you wouldn't catch me resorting to one of
the 2 lowest forms of humour! ;-p <EG>
I mis-read & thought you were talking about crpgs in general, though you
did say you couldn't care less about costume/char design in CoH, so I
presumed you meant that for all rpgs.
Spore may not be a crpg per se, but _most_ games these days with a
protagonist have some elements of roleplaying I'd venture to suggest,
whether fps, 3rd-person-action or hybrids. Even RTS/God games have you
playing the overlord, so if you can customise the persona/attributes
even to some degree, you're roleplaying I guess (e.g. Dominions3 is a TB
strategy, but you're still playing the avatar of an incarnate being
trying to rise to deity status; you may never leave your starting city,
but still plenty of room for rping imo)...my 5c worth.
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
And this is why the adjective 'recreational' should never have been
allowed to come into common use with a word like 'drugs' boyz n girlz ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
> In article <5e10f951-b2ed-444f...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> Wolfing <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I mean, 99% RPGs let you roleplay a dude or a girl, but how many RPGs
>> let you roleplay an amoeba? I can only imagine using my +3 pseudopod
>> of fire now, the uberness!
>
> Not to pile on, but Seventh Cross on the Dreamcast started you off as a
> single-celled organism. You had to consume other lifeforms and absorb
> their traits and abilities in a graphical exercise of applied genetics. I
> found it interesting, but the general gaming public didn't seem to dig it.
>
>> When is Spore coming out? I need it!
>
> I don't. Electronic Arts can go hang. I'm still waiting for them to
> apologize in public to Richard Garriott, or at least to release a copy of
> the Ultima Collection that isn't missing hundreds of data files.
Hey, kinda how I feel about Blizzard really! ;)
(though RG is a narcissistic one-man dev house (or so he thinks), who
needs to stop giving himself titles he never earned nor could he aspire
to deserve :)
> -KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
> can run on this thing?
LOL - how old is that thing? Hey, if you get a more recent HP notebook
or a Thinkpad you can run almost anything on them (even w/o a dedicated
graphics card). I can run the likes of Guild Wars, HGL, LOTRO & SWG
quite acceptably on my Z61t.
386-compatible...hmmm...BG1/2, IWD series, Summoner is a great console
port (one of the very few I can stomach), PST & Fallout of course. Have
you ever played Zanzarah, a cute fairy rpg/combat game? I really liked
it myself *blush*.
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
> I think Age of Conan does this and better too, although by the devs own
> admission they are working to make this more accessible to people with lower
> spec machines. But if you have the hardware, it is a truly stunning game at
> times.
ATI 4870s out next month :) Time to start specing up a new rig for
myself for Christmas methinks, which the company can pay for. Current
AMD3400/X1950Pro/2GbDDR400 is 3.5 yrs old (albeit with a mem & vidcard
upgrade last year). I just haven't heard anything _compelling_ about AoC
as a mmo...convince me - why should I play it, apart from "it's real
puurrtttyyy!"?
--
Nostromo
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
>
>> -KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
>> can run on this thing?
>
>LOL - how old is that thing? Hey, if you get a more recent HP notebook
>or a Thinkpad you can run almost anything on them (even w/o a dedicated
>graphics card). I can run the likes of Guild Wars, HGL, LOTRO & SWG
>quite acceptably on my Z61t.
I think it's from 1994 or so? The appeal is that it runs on four AA
batteries and a CF card in place of a hard drive. The thing cost like
$3,000 when it was released originally.
>386-compatible...hmmm...BG1/2, IWD series, Summoner is a great console
>port (one of the very few I can stomach), PST & Fallout of course. Have
>you ever played Zanzarah, a cute fairy rpg/combat game? I really liked
>it myself *blush*.
I neglected to mention that the thing only runs 16-color VGA and doesn't
see more than 40 MB of drive space. I'm thinking that maybe Ultima VI is
the newest thing I can run on it. Really, if Moraff's World runs halfway
decently I'll be happy.
-KKC, who goes to check out the spec requirements on his Interplay CDs.
Ross Ridge
> -KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
> can run on this thing?
Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>386-compatible...hmmm...BG1/2, IWD series, Summoner is a great console
>port (one of the very few I can stomach), PST & Fallout of course.
Unfortunately a '386 won't handle any of those games. Fallout is the
oldest of those games and it requires a Pentium 90 and 32MB of RAM.
Hmm... if this is an HP Omnibook 300 then it has a 386SX CPU and only
2MB of RAM. Wizardry VII is about the most modern RPG game I'd try to
run on it. It'll run very slow, but it should be playable. The original
Pool of Radiance should be ok. Wasteland is another option. Starflight
should run well on it. So would Might and Magic I. Hmm... Dungeon
Master would probably be pushing it.
That is, assuming any of these games can handle the Omnibook's
16-greyscale display.
Nostromo
04:00:53 -0400, Anno Domini:
>Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
>> -KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
>> can run on this thing?
>
>Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>386-compatible...hmmm...BG1/2, IWD series, Summoner is a great console
>>port (one of the very few I can stomach), PST & Fallout of course.
>
>Unfortunately a '386 won't handle any of those games. Fallout is the
>oldest of those games and it requires a Pentium 90 and 32MB of RAM.
>
>Hmm... if this is an HP Omnibook 300 then it has a 386SX CPU and only
>2MB of RAM. Wizardry VII is about the most modern RPG game I'd try to
>run on it. It'll run very slow, but it should be playable. The original
>Pool of Radiance should be ok. Wasteland is another option. Starflight
>should run well on it. So would Might and Magic I. Hmm... Dungeon
>Master would probably be pushing it.
>
>That is, assuming any of these games can handle the Omnibook's
>16-greyscale display.
Oh dear, I didn't know what I was getting into he, he. Really KKC, why would
you bother? You can probably get a year old 12" 1280x800 truecolour notebook
for a grand if you look hard enough & you can play almost any modern rpg or
other game on it that doesn't require a hardcore 3D vidcard...even some that
do. I know, I'm doin it & finding it *very* hard to get back to the desktop
PC (which is now in the spare room *sniff* until we move).
--
Nostromo
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Nostromo <nos...@forme.org> wrote:
>Thus spake Ross Ridge <rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>, Wed, 16 Jul 2008
>04:00:53 -0400, Anno Domini:
>
>>2MB of RAM. Wizardry VII is about the most modern RPG game I'd try to
>>run on it. It'll run very slow, but it should be playable. The original
>>Pool of Radiance should be ok. Wasteland is another option. Starflight
>>should run well on it. So would Might and Magic I. Hmm... Dungeon
>>Master would probably be pushing it.
That's the very unit I'm getting. I did used to have a working Omnibook
530, which is a 486 that supports a whole 20 MB of RAM. But I set it on
fire accidentally trying to fix one of the on-board memory chips. I can
laugh about that *now*. :)
>>That is, assuming any of these games can handle the Omnibook's
>>16-greyscale display.
>
>Oh dear, I didn't know what I was getting into he, he. Really KKC, why would
>you bother? You can probably get a year old 12" 1280x800 truecolour notebook
>for a grand if you look hard enough & you can play almost any modern rpg or
>other game on it that doesn't require a hardcore 3D vidcard...
Do any of those year-old laptops run off of four AA batteries and boot to
DOS in three seconds? I do have a modern laptop I take places, but the
newest game I have running on it is Diablo 2. I don't have to have the
latest and greatest stuff all the time, and I'm very fond of these old
sub-notebook machines.
Oh, hey! I can run Airborne Ranger on this thing. Rock.
-KKC, trying to find drivers for his old parallel-port 5 1/4" floppy drive.
Wolfing
No, you definitely got me wrong there. My post was about how it seems
to me that all the excitement about Spore is because you can create
creatures, and when you play a game, your game will be populated by
creatures made by other people around the world. Cool... except for,
what does it add to my gameplay? What difference does it make to the
player that the 3 legged 4 eyed creature he sees was made by some dude
in Zimbabwe, or by a dev, or just randomly generated?
That's why I mentioned City of Heroes, I loved the game, but the
*game* part of it. But for many people all they talk about is the
character generator and how they could make so many different
costumes ... that don't affect gameplay in any way! I don't blame
them for it, I just don't see the point of it, just like I don't think
I'll see the 'point' with Spore.
Leo
blabbed:
>
>No, you definitely got me wrong there. My post was about how it seems
>to me that all the excitement about Spore is because you can create
>creatures, and when you play a game, your game will be populated by
>creatures made by other people around the world. Cool... except for,
>what does it add to my gameplay? What difference does it make to the
>player that the 3 legged 4 eyed creature he sees was made by some dude
>in Zimbabwe, or by a dev, or just randomly generated?
>That's why I mentioned City of Heroes, I loved the game, but the
>*game* part of it. But for many people all they talk about is the
>character generator and how they could make so many different
>costumes ... that don't affect gameplay in any way! I don't blame
>them for it, I just don't see the point of it, just like I don't think
>I'll see the 'point' with Spore.
There was an old strategy game few seem to remember made by
the discovery channel. It was an rts, kinda. It was called
evolution. You start off w/a lifeform, evolve it how you like, make
key decisions, end up w/a sentient species (if you can survive that
long). Of course, you have opponents doing the same thing. Your
lifeform needs resources, resources are limited, and changing, the
earth itself changes, because each minute is like a million years or
something. The changing earth can suddenly starve your lifeform if
you built it poorly.
The game was also meant to be educational. I think I even
have the bestiary it came w/still buried in a box somewhere, it was
very nice. A separate booklet w/pictures and descriptions of various
real world species.
The game wasn't terribly popular, I've rarely talked w/people
who ever even heard of it, it didn't get great reviews, but for some
reason I liked it at the time (though I barely remember it now, maybe
I wouldn't feel the same way now). This talk of spore lately just
gives me the urge to dig out my old Evolution disc, though I despair
of the idea of trying to put up w/win95 era graphics..
Anyone else remember it?
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/evolution/index.html?tag=result;title;5
patch doesn't seem to be up anymore though, at least not when
I tried just now (below), I don't even think they realize they still
have this page up, hehe:
http://multimedia.discovery.com/mms/evolution/evolution.html
be careful of the steep system requirements:
Minimum System:
Pentium 60MHz
2x CD-ROM drive
16 MB RAM
Windows® 95
SVGA graphics (8-bit color)
Mouse
Windows compatible sound card
15 MB uncompressed hard drive space
Recommended System:
Pentium 166 MHz with MMX TM
8x CD-ROM drive
32 MB RAM
Windows® 95
SVGA graphics (32-bit color)
Mouse
Windows compatible sound card
50 MB uncompressed hard drive space
oh, and this is particularly interesting to us, check out this
question and answer in the FAQ:
Q: Where can I find other Evolution players so that I can
discuss the game and find people who want to play networked games?
A: There is a great place to meet other Evolution players and
fans of Strategy games. If you have access to Usenet, subscribe to
COMP.SYS.IBM.PC.GAMES.STRATEGIC. Check with your Internet provider to
learn how to access Usenet. If you have access to America Online, you
can access Usenet and this group (along with AOL's own strategy game
message boards). There are many discussions about Evolution going on
as you read this. Also, if you would like to see Evolution supported
by Mutliplayer gaming services such as Kali, WON, Engage and MPlayer,
go to their websites and send them an email! We have done what we can
to get us supported, but now it will take players' requests to make it
happen.
Not that I'm in the habit of reading FAQ's, so I could just be
ignorant, but I doubt its very common for official game sites to point
people to the c.s.i.p.g.* groups in their FAQ's. Pretty cool. I
especially wish the game had done better now.
Leo
Wolfing
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Wolfing <wolfi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I started Wiz 8 a couple of
> >weeks ago and it showed its age. But, couldn't that same engine be
> >used today with higher-polygon characters? I would be happy with just
> >that!
>
> Would you have been completely happy if Wiz8 had used Wiz7 graphics
> engine?
only if it came a year after Wiz 7 :)
What I'm saying is, for RPGs, you can make the engine once, and easily
make 2 sequels with the same engine, like Might & Magic 3, 4, 5 were
very similar if I remember correctly, The pool of radiance series, the
eye of the beholders, the Arkania games, etc. There were improvements
over the previous games, but they didn't have to remake the engine,
and as such, they could pump out new games once a year or so (again,
not expansions, full games with new stories, characters, etc. but
using the same engine).
Wolfing
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:25:34 -0700 (PDT), Wolfing <wolfi...@gmail.com>
Maybe it was ahead of its time :) the precursor to Spore (hell, who
knows, give it a few months and some obscure company with the rights
to it might sue Spore).
That game to me would work better as a 'god' game like Populous,
instead of an RTS. Instead of directly controlling the units, you'd
just 'suggest' what they should do.
Memnoch
Combat is more involved. Instead of just sitting there tapping a few buttons
over and over you can "aim" your attacks, causing more or less than standard
damage depending on where you strike. You have combos that you can complete as
well to do extra damage and to enable certain effects.
Mounted combat, although this will cost a fortune. 1G to buy a book enabling
you to ride a horse, 2G for the horse and then I think 100G for an advanced
riding book that actually allows the combat moves.
Crafting is fun, although it could be argued it is not as involved as some but
there is a small but growing player driven economy now. that is starting to
settle down regarding pricing.
Siege warfare! Haven't actually taken part in this yet but you can have plans
to build siege engines like catapults to attack rival guilds keeps and
fortifications. You can also use a mammoth to smash walls down.
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>In article <g5k59f$h4b$2...@registered.motzarella.org>,
>Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
>>
>>> -KKC, who just bought an HP Omnibook. What are good 386-compatible RPGs I
>>> can run on this thing?
>>
>>LOL - how old is that thing? Hey, if you get a more recent HP notebook
>>or a Thinkpad you can run almost anything on them (even w/o a dedicated
>>graphics card). I can run the likes of Guild Wars, HGL, LOTRO & SWG
>>quite acceptably on my Z61t.
>
>I think it's from 1994 or so? The appeal is that it runs on four AA
>batteries and a CF card in place of a hard drive. The thing cost like
>$3,000 when it was released originally.
>
>>386-compatible...hmmm...BG1/2, IWD series, Summoner is a great console
>>port (one of the very few I can stomach), PST & Fallout of course. Have
>>you ever played Zanzarah, a cute fairy rpg/combat game? I really liked
>>it myself *blush*.
>
>I neglected to mention that the thing only runs 16-color VGA and doesn't
>see more than 40 MB of drive space. I'm thinking that maybe Ultima VI is
>the newest thing I can run on it. Really, if Moraff's World runs halfway
>decently I'll be happy.
Eye of the Beholder may run since the reqs were:
For original version: IBM PC compatible computer with 640KB system
memory (565,000 bytes free); either a hard drive with 2.1MB free space
or two floppy drives (5?-inch or 3?-inch, depending on game version
purchased) ; VGA, MCGA, EGA, Tandy 16 Color , or CGA graphics
capabilities; for optional sound support an AdLib or SoundBlaster board,
or built-in speaker; mouse optional.
Maybe eob2 would run as well, doubt eob3 would though.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Chuk Goodin
>Oh dear, I didn't know what I was getting into he, he. Really KKC, why would
>you bother? You can probably get a year old 12" 1280x800 truecolour notebook
>for a grand if you look hard enough & you can play almost any modern rpg or
>other game on it that doesn't require a hardcore 3D vidcard...even some that
>do. I know, I'm doin it & finding it *very* hard to get back to the desktop
>PC (which is now in the spare room *sniff* until we move).
A grand? I got a 17" 1440x900 one for ~$450 last month, plus they threw in
a free printer. (No 3d vidcard of course, but my kids can run The Sims 2
on it, and that thing is a pig.)
--
chuk
Nostromo
(UTC), Anno Domini:
Yeah, but I was talking 12" specifically as being the smallest common,
full-size PC notebook with full Windows XP/Vista running on it. Size does
matter with laptops it seems, & the smaller the more expensive *sigh*.
--
Nostromo
NFLed
> Thus spake Alice Charasz <achar...@mungedHotmail.spam>, Sun, 13 Jul 2008
> 07:38:46 +0200 (CEST), Anno Domini:
>
> >The first game in the series now has a title worthy of an expansion pack.
>
> ></indefensible peeve>
>
> Bioware have pretty much relegated themselves to the "large corporate
> franchise-milking consolitis has-beens" bucket, with nothing creative or
> innovative since the BG series (& even that wasn't so shining new, just came
> at the right time after a long crpg drought).
>
> </carefactor0>
>
> --
> Nostromo
I disagree 100%, everything by Bioware since BG1 has been either very
good or great.
Mark Morrison
>Are there many console games where the sequel uses the same gfx engine
>as the previous one, with no optimizations and fixes to the engine?
Bear in mind for consoles, the console ITSELF is often replaced
between games, thus forcing a new engine, by necessity.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>No, you definitely got me wrong there. My post was about how it seems
>to me that all the excitement about Spore is because you can create
>creatures, and when you play a game, your game will be populated by
>creatures made by other people around the world. Cool... except for,
>what does it add to my gameplay? What difference does it make to the
>player that the 3 legged 4 eyed creature he sees was made by some dude
>in Zimbabwe, or by a dev, or just randomly generated?
>That's why I mentioned City of Heroes, I loved the game, but the
>*game* part of it. But for many people all they talk about is the
>character generator and how they could make so many different
>costumes ... that don't affect gameplay in any way! I don't blame
>them for it, I just don't see the point of it, just like I don't think
>I'll see the 'point' with Spore.
I don't think a lot of info about the larger game has been released,
ie the civilisation-building part, or the space exploration.
Also, you don't HAVE to populate your galaxy with other people's
creatures. I think you can play offline, as it were, without creating
the online presence that is a pre-req for creature sharing.
Personally, I'm waiting for reviews. Although a Civ-a-like with
custom made aliens sounds fun, I'm not rushing out buy it blind.
Matt v3.3
> Mark Morrison wrote:
>> I can't remember the last time I played a game and it's sequel that
>> used the same gfx engine.
>
> year or so after the first game with essentially the same engine
> would've been amazing.
Hell yes, I'm only now playing Deus Ex for the first time, and having a
blast, I must say. What a brilliantly executed game.
Thief 1,2 used the same engine and quite successfully (I thought T2 was
better). Then even further back in time, Tomb Raider 2,3,4,5. They sure
milked that one! ;D Though there were lots of complaints about "same
old, same old", I was happy enough to get more. On the other hand, I've
yet to play TR6 or the newer ones.
(Ok, so these are not RPGs, but still...)
--
};> Matt v3.3 <:{
Matt v3.3
> Renamed what? What was the original name?
"Dragon Age", I think. They added ": Origins" because every
successful franchise needs a colon in the title. ;)
--
};> Matt v3.3 <:{
Ross Ridge
> It's too bad more games didn't do this. A Deus Ex sequel released a
> year or so after the first game with essentially the same engine
> would've been amazing.
Matt v3.3 <ask.for.m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hell yes, I'm only now playing Deus Ex for the first time, and having a
>blast, I must say. What a brilliantly executed game.
I was thinking today of those quiet moments in Deus Ex we're you're
outside some place and it's dark. There's some quiet ambient noise in
background, and everything looks deserted. It's just like you'd would
expect many of the locations in the game to be like in the middle of
the night. Those "normal" moments really brought me into the game,
making it feel like I'm in real place.
>Thief 1,2 used the same engine and quite successfully (I thought T2 was
>better).
Yah, that's pretty much I wished they did with Deus Ex. The great thing
about Deus Ex, Thief 2 and to lesser extent Thief 1, were the huge levels.
My only real complaint about Deus Ex: Invisible War was the comparably
small levels.
Nostromo
2008 18:46:31 GMT, Anno Domini:
>On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:44:35 +1000, Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>>Memnoch wrote:
>>
>>> I think Age of Conan does this and better too, although by the devs own
>>> admission they are working to make this more accessible to people with lower
>>> spec machines. But if you have the hardware, it is a truly stunning game at
>>> times.
>>
>>ATI 4870s out next month :) Time to start specing up a new rig for
>>myself for Christmas methinks, which the company can pay for. Current
>>AMD3400/X1950Pro/2GbDDR400 is 3.5 yrs old (albeit with a mem & vidcard
>>upgrade last year). I just haven't heard anything _compelling_ about AoC
>>as a mmo...convince me - why should I play it, apart from "it's real
>>puurrtttyyy!"?
>
>Combat is more involved. Instead of just sitting there tapping a few buttons
>over and over you can "aim" your attacks, causing more or less than standard
>damage depending on where you strike. You have combos that you can complete as
>well to do extra damage and to enable certain effects.
Ok, but for us old fart slow pokes, even a 'mmo' like GW gives us the
feeling of RT combat & combos via stacking & timing spells/skills in hurry.
>Mounted combat, although this will cost a fortune. 1G to buy a book enabling
>you to ride a horse, 2G for the horse and then I think 100G for an advanced
>riding book that actually allows the combat moves.
What the conversion rate roughly, compared to say LOTRO or WoW? 100g would
want to be a helluva lot easier to amass than in LOTRO!
>Crafting is fun, although it could be argued it is not as involved as some but
>there is a small but growing player driven economy now. that is starting to
>settle down regarding pricing.
K.
>Siege warfare! Haven't actually taken part in this yet but you can have plans
>to build siege engines like catapults to attack rival guilds keeps and
>fortifications. You can also use a mammoth to smash walls down.
So what yer tellin me, in all honesty, is that if you don't particularly
need cutting edge eye candy, don't like PvP & are looking for something,
anything really 'new' in a mmo, then keep moving...? I think once I move
house I'll definitely revisit SWG & maybe LOTRO. There just isn't a mmo out
there that can tempt me like D3 is :).
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
>Eye of the Beholder may run since the reqs were:
>
>For original version: IBM PC compatible computer with 640KB system
>memory (565,000 bytes free); either a hard drive with 2.1MB free space
>or two floppy drives (5?-inch or 3?-inch, depending on game version
>purchased) ; VGA, MCGA, EGA, Tandy 16 Color , or CGA graphics
>capabilities; for optional sound support an AdLib or SoundBlaster board,
>or built-in speaker; mouse optional.
>
>Maybe eob2 would run as well, doubt eob3 would though.
I'd like to see KKC use mapping paper while playing on it lol! ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
(PDT), Anno Domini:
>No, you definitely got me wrong there. My post was about how it seems
>to me that all the excitement about Spore is because you can create
>creatures, and when you play a game, your game will be populated by
>creatures made by other people around the world. Cool... except for,
>what does it add to my gameplay? What difference does it make to the
>player that the 3 legged 4 eyed creature he sees was made by some dude
>in Zimbabwe, or by a dev, or just randomly generated?
>That's why I mentioned City of Heroes, I loved the game, but the
>*game* part of it. But for many people all they talk about is the
>character generator and how they could make so many different
>costumes ... that don't affect gameplay in any way! I don't blame
>them for it, I just don't see the point of it, just like I don't think
>I'll see the 'point' with Spore.
Well, in that case Wolfing, with all due respect, I think your idea of
roleplaying may be very different to most people's. ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
> Not that I'm in the habit of reading FAQ's, so I could just be
>ignorant, but I doubt its very common for official game sites to point
>people to the c.s.i.p.g.* groups in their FAQ's. Pretty cool. I
>especially wish the game had done better now.
That is cool. Almost makes me want to d/l it & try it. Almost. ;-p
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
>Personally, I'm waiting for reviews. Although a Civ-a-like with
>custom made aliens sounds fun, I'm not rushing out buy it blind.
Bleh. Someone has to explain to me just what the fascination is with the Civ
franchise (that's rhetorical - many have tried & several attempts at
Civ1/2/Alpha/4 just left me with a big fat 'Meh' - turn-based shouldn't be
like watching slow-drying paint lol!). Same for MOO & HOMM - all left me
decidedly soft.
Now, gimme some MoM or Stars! or UFO/XCOM or Dominions or SoaSE for my TB
fix, no probs! I guess there really is no accounting for taste, ey? ;)
Actually, I know this is OT here, but can anyone recommend a decent TB
fantasy/sci-fi/space 4X or squad-based game in recent years? I'd prefer
something that would run ok on a 1.66GHz C2D notebook with 1Gb RAM & onboard
video at 1280x800. I also prefer the base building aspects of these games to
the combat (except in squad games like UFO), though I can't stomach one w/o
the other. I also don't like historical wargames - too propeller-head for my
liking. An RPG hybrid would be great too of it's a good game. Any/all
suggestions much appreciated!
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
Good-ish at best. Did you play the NWN OC or Jade Empire lol? Kotor was
average at best, once you got past the blatant pandering to SW fans (which I
am, so I got as far as Tatooine before I realised I was just playing D20 3rd
Ed D&D with a SW skin lol!). NWN2 was ok up until NW itself, but nothing new
or inspiring in the least. ME I haven't played, but then again I don't play
consolitis crap :). That about cover it? Good.
--
Nostromo
Wolfing
> Thus spake Wolfing <wolfi...@gmail.com>, Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:25:34 -0700
Why do you say that? what does your character attire have to do with
your roleplaying, acting like you're in the game's world, talking
about the world's events, etc. What I mean is that for many people,
the most important thing about CoH was the costume generator...
where's the roleplaying in that?
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Wolfing <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 17, 5:11?am, Nostromo <nos...@forme.org> wrote:
>>
>> Well, in that case Wolfing, with all due respect, I think your idea of
>> roleplaying may be very different to most people's. ;)
>
>your roleplaying, acting like you're in the game's world, talking
>about the world's events, etc. What I mean is that for many people,
>the most important thing about CoH was the costume generator...
>where's the roleplaying in that?
As much as it pains me to come down on Nostromo's side, consider this:
Would you be able to swear a samurai's loyalty oath to a new daimyo while
wearing a soccer jersey and a fedora? For a lot of players, the costume
and appearance is the very first (and most important) step in creating the
sense of immersion and escapism.
But in the spirit of seeing both sides of the argument, the costume
shouldn't be the end-all of that act either. Also, most games don't change
the response of NPCs or the series of linear story events based on what
you're wearing. The best example I can think of is Morrowind, where you
got a minor disposition bonus for wearing expensive clothes (and horrified
reactions if you went anywhere naked.)
Outside of structured games (computerized or otherwise) wearing unusual
clothes is the very first bit of role playing that we do as children at
play. You're not a doctor until you're wearing the reflector and the white
coat. You're not a fireman without the big red hat and the heavy fireproof
jacket. I remember that one sociologist observed video games being good
for gender understanding, in that it provides heterosexual American men a
socially acceptable way of exploring femininity without threatening their
own sex identity. I won't wear a ball gown, but thanks to Fable 2 I might
be able to see what it would be like.
-KKC, doing fun things with Windows 3.1.
Wolfing
> In article <a48d3a61-def9-4256-861c-f7e012baf...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
through randomized costumes, then I would imagine a superhero with
that costume, the reasons for it, etc. And then roleplay that
character. But that would take me some 2 minutes, the roleplaying
part comes after. (As opposed to many people who would just spend 90%
of the time making a costume and then never playing the game)
In any case, I was talking about Spore, and in that game there is no
roleplaying at all, which is why I don't see the big fuss about the
creature editor and the whole 'social networking' thing (which I
believe just turned into this year's marketing buzzword).
I mean, if other people could affect my gameplay somehow, by adding
scenarios, abilities, structures, etc., I'd understand, but as far as
I've read, it's just creatures. Which is why I say... what difference
does it make to me if the organisms I see in my game are created by
someone in Zimbabwe, by the devs, or just randomly generated?
Mark Morrison
>Now, gimme some MoM or Stars! or UFO/XCOM or Dominions or SoaSE for my TB
>fix, no probs! I guess there really is no accounting for taste, ey? ;)
>
>Actually, I know this is OT here, but can anyone recommend a decent TB
>fantasy/sci-fi/space 4X or squad-based game in recent years? I'd prefer
>something that would run ok on a 1.66GHz C2D notebook with 1Gb RAM & onboard
>video at 1280x800. I also prefer the base building aspects of these games to
>the combat (except in squad games like UFO), though I can't stomach one w/o
>the other. I also don't like historical wargames - too propeller-head for my
>liking. An RPG hybrid would be great too of it's a good game. Any/all
>suggestions much appreciated!
I've not played a UFO/XCOM beater since, well, the XCOM games.
I bought UFO - Aftershock, but it's not the same. Apart from the
combat, I didn't like the worldmap.
If I could find a turn-based squad game whe you smush aliens, I'd
happily buy it.
Memnoch
You don't have to play PvP if you don't want to. There are many servers for
different play styles:
PvP and PvE plus RP versions of the same.
PvP where you cannot attack your own race, can't remember the type off the top
of my head.
I don't think there is anything "new" out there to be honest. I tried Tabula
Rasa a few months ago and got levelled into the 20's and stopped playing.
Other things came along that drew my attention away and it never came back.
However with AoC I am into my 70's now, with a cap at 80, and am still having
a blast. Hopefully they will allow some limited trial in the future so you can
give it a go.
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Wolfing <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 17, 9:42?am, Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendr...@nospam.io> wrote:
>> In article <a48d3a61-def9-4256-861c-f7e012baf...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >Why do you say that? ?what does your character attire have to do with
>> >your roleplaying, acting like you're in the game's world, talking
>> >the most important thing about CoH was the costume generator...
>> >where's the roleplaying in that?
>>
>> As much as it pains me to come down on Nostromo's side, consider this:
>> Would you be able to swear a samurai's loyalty oath to a new daimyo while
>> wearing a soccer jersey and a fedora? For a lot of players, the costume
>> and appearance is the very first (and most important) step in creating the
>> sense of immersion and escapism.
>Well yes, but I looked at it the other way around. I would click
>through randomized costumes, then I would imagine a superhero with
>that costume, the reasons for it, etc. And then roleplay that
>character. But that would take me some 2 minutes, the roleplaying
>part comes after. (As opposed to many people who would just spend 90%
>of the time making a costume and then never playing the game)
You're the type of gamer that would make a good actor. You're given a
situation and you get enjoyment out of role playing to that specific
circumstance. But many gamers want and require more control over that
situation, and having a pre-generated character with a predetermined
appearance doesn't fill that need. I can accept a scenario where a
particular player gets no pleasure out of any part of the game except for
the rich, detailed character generator.
>In any case, I was talking about Spore, and in that game there is no
>roleplaying at all, which is why I don't see the big fuss about the
>creature editor and the whole 'social networking' thing (which I
>believe just turned into this year's marketing buzzword).
>I mean, if other people could affect my gameplay somehow, by adding
>scenarios, abilities, structures, etc., I'd understand, but as far as
>I've read, it's just creatures. Which is why I say... what difference
>does it make to me if the organisms I see in my game are created by
>someone in Zimbabwe, by the devs, or just randomly generated?
Taking an ad absurdum viewpoint, you could say this about any player
interaction at all. What's the real difference between computer-controlled
teammates with AI and human-controlled party members? With limited input
options and play scenarios, there should be no numerical difference. But
obviously there is some benefit to having that random, human element in
the interaction. Character generation is, to me, a legitimate form of that
type of contribution. Also, we don't know for a fact that the displayed
appearance of the Spore creatures don't affect gameplay in statistical
ways. Being that it's Electronic Arts, I don't think they're that clever.
-KKC, influencing game purchasing decisions from across the Atlantic.
Darin Johnson
> What the conversion rate roughly, compared to say LOTRO or WoW? 100g would
> want to be a helluva lot easier to amass than in LOTRO!
Agreed. I've got 30g at max level in LOTRO, and a lot of
kin have said that's a lot of money, and I've never had
money troubles there. But that's not a lot at all WoW;
I had 300g before I quit at level 60, after buying the
level 60 mount.
> There just isn't a mmo out
> there that can tempt me like D3 is :).
Never played D1 or D2. I tried a demo of D1 and was
bored with it. Just a mad click fest. D2 added more
stats but as I understood it, it was also just a click
fest too. I don't mind mindless games, but there's
a limit...
Leo
blabbed:
The consoles have many such a game, though usually a little
more cartoony graphics wise. Final Fantasy tactics the original, the
remake on psp, disgea, makai kingdom, jeane d'arc, etc... I guess for
the pc you could include jagged alliance. There's the newer, very
x-com like, ufo-extra terrestials as well. The older Silent Storm.
http://www.ufo-extraterrestrials.com/
Leo
Kyle Haight
Matt v3.3 <ask.for.m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Thief 1,2 used the same engine and quite successfully (I thought T2 was
>better).
System Shock II also used the Thief engine, FYI.
--
Kyle Haight
Matt v3.3
>> Maybe eob2 would run as well, doubt eob3 would though.
>
> I'd like to see KKC use mapping paper while playing on it lol! ;)
That depends, do maps need signatures? ;P
(Hey, I still have my hand drawn EoB1 maps. Later when the 'net came
along, I downloaded the clue book maps to finish playing it, because
by then I was too lazy to draw them ;) )
--
};> Matt v3.3 <:{
Darin Johnson
> System Shock II also used the Thief engine, FYI.
Sort of. Thief 2 and System Shock 2 were developed around
the same time with parallel development. The SS2 team
weren't even sure how the engine would work in practice
and were very conservative with their polygon counts.
So it wasn't "reuse" of an engine, per se.
Also Thief 2 engine was modified quite a lot from Thief 1.
Normally when I think that a game "reused" an engine,
I'm imagining just adding a whole new set of data files
and maybe a few extra scripting functions or graphics
improvements. But these engines were a lot more
different than that.
Ross Ridge
>(Hey, I still have my hand drawn EoB1 maps. Later when the 'net came
>along, I downloaded the clue book maps to finish playing it, because
>by then I was too lazy to draw them ;) )
The last time I played the original Eye of the Beholder, I didn't bother
making any maps or use any maps I had drawn earlier or downloaded.
The levels are actually fairly simple, and I remembered a fair bit of
the dungeon layout from the last time I played a couple years earlier.
It was pretty fun way to play, although I think I missed a couple secrets
that way.
Ross Ridge
>Also Thief 2 engine was modified quite a lot from Thief 1.
>Normally when I think that a game "reused" an engine,
>I'm imagining just adding a whole new set of data files
>and maybe a few extra scripting functions or graphics
>improvements. But these engines were a lot more
>different than that.
No, I don't think there really is that much difference between two games.
The gameplay is pretty much exactly the same, and the graphics engine
really hasn't changed much at all. Most of the difference is in the data
files: new missions, new monsters, new graphics. The graphic data files
are more detailed so the game looks better and has steeper requirements,
but they're pushing them through essentially the same engine.
The important thing here however, regardless of how the engine changed,
is that Thief II came out less than a year and a half after Thief:
The Dark Project was released. We didn't have wait 3 1/2 years for a
somewhat inferior game like we did with Deus Ex.
Matt v3.3
> No, I don't think there really is that much difference between two
> games. The gameplay is pretty much exactly the same, and the graphics
> engine really hasn't changed much at all. Most of the difference is
> in the data files: new missions, new monsters, new graphics. The
> graphic data files are more detailed so the game looks better and has
> steeper requirements, but they're pushing them through essentially
> the same engine.
Well, also considering there is a texture patch for T1 that brings it
closer to the graphic level of T2, if not the same, using T2 textures.
And a mesh/skin patch that updates the NPCs. Both of which ran fine with
the T1 engine (in hardware mode) last I tried, although they also upped
the requirements. I could immediately notice the better graphics.
> The important thing here however, regardless of how the engine
> changed, is that Thief II came out less than a year and a half after
> Thief: The Dark Project was released.
Yep, the old saying: "they don't make 'em like that anymore!" ;)
> We didn't have wait 3 1/2 years for a somewhat inferior game like
> we did with Deus Ex.
And just recently, Deus Ex 3 is confirmed to be in the making, with
rumors of a co-engine/development of Thief 4. :) So some 4-5 years
later (by the time it gets released).
Admittedly, I have yet to play DE2 *or* T3 - I'm catching up. :)
--
};> Matt v3.3 <:{
Darin Johnson
> Admittedly, I have yet to play DE2 *or* T3 - I'm catching up. :)
They're alright. DE2 has a different feel though. The world is
cleaner and less gritty and more futuristic, and gameplay is a
lot different (one type of ammo for everything). There is still
freedom in how to accomplish your goals.
T3 I kind of liked. It had some very good missions. Yes, most
of them are split into two maps, but it's not that jarring to make
the transitions. No rope arrows, since they couldn't get it to
work, but the climbing gloves are a decent substitute. I used a
tweak to make the usable objects less flashy. I liked the use of
the city between missions, but some players hated it (if you get
yourself captured, you get an extra bonus mission to escape).
It did feel like a real thief game, and the story fit in with the
other games.
--
Darin Johnson
Nostromo
2008 18:30:45 GMT, Anno Domini:
>>So what yer tellin me, in all honesty, is that if you don't particularly
>>need cutting edge eye candy, don't like PvP & are looking for something,
>>anything really 'new' in a mmo, then keep moving...? I think once I move
>>house I'll definitely revisit SWG & maybe LOTRO. There just isn't a mmo out
>>there that can tempt me like D3 is :).
>
>You don't have to play PvP if you don't want to. There are many servers for
>different play styles:
>
>PvP and PvE plus RP versions of the same.
>PvP where you cannot attack your own race, can't remember the type off the top
>of my head.
That was more to dismiss your plug that siege warfare was something 'new' -
not to a non-PvPer it ain't! ;)
>I don't think there is anything "new" out there to be honest. I tried Tabula
>Rasa a few months ago and got levelled into the 20's and stopped playing.
>Other things came along that drew my attention away and it never came back.
>However with AoC I am into my 70's now, with a cap at 80, and am still having
>a blast. Hopefully they will allow some limited trial in the future so you can
>give it a go.
I got an early 3(5?) day buddy key trial for TR from my guy at work - just
couldn't reel me in. The 'real-time' elements seemed very clunky & lag was a
far greater factor than most other mmos, Meh.
How many active subs has AoC got out of interest? The way I see it, until we
get the next true 'WoW beater', it's just a whole lot of yappy little dog
devs riding its coattails & biting each other for a peanut slice of the
market share. More's the pity.
I'm now only really looking fwd to SG Worlds in the mmo space, though it
looks to be same shit different bucket *sigh*. I just can't believe that
with tens of millions of players & huge dollars at stake, the sum total
creativity of the human race is only capable of producing more EQ/WoW clones
with a prettier face <boggle>.
Anyone seen this Kotor mmo announcement yet?
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/the-tech-observer/2008/07/17/ea-to-play-in-knights-of-the-old-republic
"And the one that people are dying for us to talk to them about -- in
partnership with Lucas, coming out of BioWare, which is, I think, quite
possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry at the point
when we get closer to telling you about it."
ROFLMFAO - these guys never heard of Diablo? >8^D
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
14:36:23 +1200, Anno Domini:
He, he, I spent weeks (on & off) playing 1 & 2 with a mate, taking turns
driving/mapping (swap every wipe/reload :). Happeeee tiiimeeeesss!!!
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
(PDT), Anno Domini:
It's like explaining colour to a blind man, sex to an 8 yr old or spiritual
awakening to an atheist - I could try, but if you didn't put the time in in
its heyday, make the leap of faith & surrender to the wonderful creation of
mankind that is D2 (especially closed BNet hardcore with regular peeps),
then I'm afraid you've missed the blessed lucky boat that took all of us
faithful to gaming nirvana for a few too-short years earlier this decade. So
sorry for your loss Daz... ;-p
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
00:09:54 -0400, Anno Domini:
>Matt v3.3 <ask.for.m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>(Hey, I still have my hand drawn EoB1 maps. Later when the 'net came
>>along, I downloaded the clue book maps to finish playing it, because
>>by then I was too lazy to draw them ;) )
>
>The last time I played the original Eye of the Beholder, I didn't bother
>making any maps or use any maps I had drawn earlier or downloaded.
>The levels are actually fairly simple, and I remembered a fair bit of
>the dungeon layout from the last time I played a couple years earlier.
>It was pretty fun way to play, although I think I missed a couple secrets
>that way.
EOB2 was much more of a beyatch w/o paper - heaps of spin & teleport traps &
mazes. Good luck with just using your memory/sense of direction with that
one! ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
UFO:Afterlight was much more a true spiritual successor to the series, as I
& a lot of fans would agree. Give it a go - should be bargain bin now.
>If I could find a turn-based squad game whe you smush aliens, I'd
>happily buy it.
Heh, let's start a petition! ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
(PDT), Anno Domini:
>> Well, in that case Wolfing, with all due respect, I think your idea of
>> roleplaying may be very different to most people's. ;)
>
>Why do you say that? what does your character attire have to do with
>your roleplaying, acting like you're in the game's world, talking
>about the world's events, etc. What I mean is that for many people,
>the most important thing about CoH was the costume generator...
>where's the roleplaying in that?
Well, for a lot of peeps the outfit (as well as the Bio) formed an integral
part of the character build & even what powersets they planned to choose. If
I have to explain it...;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
08:42:18 -0500, Anno Domini:
>In article <a48d3a61-def9-4256...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>Wolfing <wolf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Jul 17, 5:11?am, Nostromo <nos...@forme.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, in that case Wolfing, with all due respect, I think your idea of
>>> roleplaying may be very different to most people's. ;)
>>
>>Why do you say that? what does your character attire have to do with
>>your roleplaying, acting like you're in the game's world, talking
>>about the world's events, etc. What I mean is that for many people,
>>the most important thing about CoH was the costume generator...
>>where's the roleplaying in that?
>
>As much as it pains me to come down on Nostromo's side, consider this:
>Would you be able to swear a samurai's loyalty oath to a new daimyo while
>wearing a soccer jersey and a fedora? For a lot of players, the costume
>and appearance is the very first (and most important) step in creating the
>sense of immersion and escapism.
>
>But in the spirit of seeing both sides of the argument, the costume
>shouldn't be the end-all of that act either. Also, most games don't change
>the response of NPCs or the series of linear story events based on what
>you're wearing. The best example I can think of is Morrowind, where you
>got a minor disposition bonus for wearing expensive clothes (and horrified
>reactions if you went anywhere naked.)
Wot he said. :)
>Outside of structured games (computerized or otherwise) wearing unusual
>clothes is the very first bit of role playing that we do as children at
>play. You're not a doctor until you're wearing the reflector and the white
>coat. You're not a fireman without the big red hat and the heavy fireproof
>jacket. I remember that one sociologist observed video games being good
>for gender understanding, in that it provides heterosexual American men a
>socially acceptable way of exploring femininity without threatening their
>own sex identity. I won't wear a ball gown, but thanks to Fable 2 I might
>be able to see what it would be like.
Hey, I pick a female char most of the time - I know I'd rather watch a
female butt (assuming 3rd person over the shoulder) or form for 50+ hrs than
fantasize about being that muscley meathead warrior all that time lol!
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
>>Well yes, but I looked at it the other way around. I would click
>>through randomized costumes, then I would imagine a superhero with
>>that costume, the reasons for it, etc. And then roleplay that
>>character. But that would take me some 2 minutes, the roleplaying
>>part comes after. (As opposed to many people who would just spend 90%
>>of the time making a costume and then never playing the game)
I doubt there are many players are of the opposite extreme you describe
there. Then again, how would we know if they hardly spend any time in-game
lol? ;)
>You're the type of gamer that would make a good actor. You're given a
>situation and you get enjoyment out of role playing to that specific
>circumstance. But many gamers want and require more control over that
>situation, and having a pre-generated character with a predetermined
>appearance doesn't fill that need. I can accept a scenario where a
>particular player gets no pleasure out of any part of the game except for
>the rich, detailed character generator.
The problem with that analogy is that good actors are rarely given, or
accept, a random character someone just whipped up in 2 mins & threw a
script at them. Most are a product of many hours/days/months of writing &
design, or years/centuries of cultural history (if based on real ppl).
>>In any case, I was talking about Spore, and in that game there is no
>>roleplaying at all, which is why I don't see the big fuss about the
>>creature editor and the whole 'social networking' thing (which I
>>believe just turned into this year's marketing buzzword).
>>I mean, if other people could affect my gameplay somehow, by adding
>>scenarios, abilities, structures, etc., I'd understand, but as far as
>>I've read, it's just creatures. Which is why I say... what difference
>>does it make to me if the organisms I see in my game are created by
>>someone in Zimbabwe, by the devs, or just randomly generated?
>
>Taking an ad absurdum viewpoint, you could say this about any player
>interaction at all. What's the real difference between computer-controlled
>teammates with AI and human-controlled party members? With limited input
>options and play scenarios, there should be no numerical difference. But
>obviously there is some benefit to having that random, human element in
>the interaction. Character generation is, to me, a legitimate form of that
Humans can form complex tactics & strategies, but yeah, in the end you
either kill the mob/beat the quest or you don't - same difference. Of
course, if you're a control freak like me, online games like GW where you
can control the entire party, usually far better than most PUGs or real
player parties, almost proves the opposite point.
>type of contribution. Also, we don't know for a fact that the displayed
>appearance of the Spore creatures don't affect gameplay in statistical
>ways. Being that it's Electronic Arts, I don't think they're that clever.
Yeah, & they're the proposed Kotor mmo publisher God help us!
>-KKC, influencing game purchasing decisions from across the Atlantic.
--
Nostromo, pissing on game design across the Pacific AND Indian oceans! :)
Ross Ridge
>How many active subs has AoC got out of interest?
Apparently they've got over 700,000 accounts created so far. Thought
actual suscriptions might be lower if people haven't staying past their
first month.
> The way I see it, until we get the next true 'WoW beater', it's just
>a whole lot of yappy little dog devs riding its coattails & biting each
>other for a peanut slice of the market share. More's the pity.
I don't think anyone is really aiming to be a World of Warcraft beater
anymore. Even Age of Conan didn't expect the numbers it got. If you can
sustain 200,000 subscribers you can have a pretty sucessful MMO. There
are two upcomming superhero MMOs hoping to be City of Heroes beaters.
>Anyone seen this Kotor mmo announcement yet?
>http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/the-tech-observer/2008/07/17/ea-to-play-in-knights-of-the-old-republic
>
>"And the one that people are dying for us to talk to them about -- in
>partnership with Lucas, coming out of BioWare, which is, I think, quite
>possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry at the point
>when we get closer to telling you about it."
>
>ROFLMFAO - these guys never heard of Diablo? >8^D
Since it wasd more or less enivitable and not likely to be very ground
breaking, I don't think Diablo III had quite that amount anticpation
from inside the industry. A Bioware MMO could, on the other hand,
really shake up the landscape.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
> The consoles have many such a game, though usually a little
>more cartoony graphics wise. Final Fantasy tactics the original, the
>remake on psp, disgea, makai kingdom, jeane d'arc, etc... I guess for
>the pc you could include jagged alliance. There's the newer, very
>x-com like, ufo-extra terrestials as well. The older Silent Storm.
Talking of Silent Storm (which I loved, with the sequels) I just
ordered Night Watch, which was made with the same engine. I tried the
demo ages ago, but never got the game, for some reason.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>
>http://www.ufo-extraterrestrials.com/
I tihnk I tried it a while back - got my arse handed to me in some of
the fights. My guys had a massive mortality rate, iirc.
Mark Morrison
>UFO:Afterlight was much more a true spiritual successor to the series, as I
>& a lot of fans would agree. Give it a go - should be bargain bin now.
Is that the one where you start as 1 guy on the moon or somewhere ?
Then it explodes and you all travel to earth or something ?
Mark Morrison
>"And the one that people are dying for us to talk to them about -- in
>partnership with Lucas, coming out of BioWare, which is, I think, quite
>possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry at the point
>when we get closer to telling you about it."
Yeah - because the LAST Star Wars MMORPG was such a fantasic game...
Darin Johnson
> Yeah - because the LAST Star Wars MMORPG was such a fantasic game...
But the KOTOR world isn't "Star Wars" really. And I didn't
think it was that great a game anyway.
Nostromo
Anno Domini:
No it's the most recent one from a different dev to the rest of the UFO:A?
series (I think). Pausable real-time & a strategic/base game that's far more
true to the originals methinks.
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
(PDT), Anno Domini:
Hey, the current incarnation of SWG, from a newbie's perspective who's never
played it before, is that there's a great mmo in there, older graphics &
some UI annoyances aside. Shit, you get ground combat, vehicles AND
spaceship combat, all for a pretty cheap price (all exps included), if
you're a new customer. Pre-NGE crap aside, taken on face value on its own
merits right now, it's as good a mmo as any & better in a lot of ways. A
must for any SW fan who hasn't tried it yet imo. With a free 14-day trial
you can't go wrong.
--
Nostromo
Leo
blabbed:
>On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:36:11 -0700, Leo <Anon...@anonymous.com>
I think I remember someone making a mod that got around that,
made new guys available much more often or somethin' like that. If
you ever fire it up again, look for mods.
Leo
Kyle Haight
Darin Johnson <da...@usa.net> wrote:
>On Jul 17, 3:58 pm, khai...@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle Haight) wrote:
>> System Shock II also used the Thief engine, FYI.
>
>Sort of. Thief 2 and System Shock 2 were developed around
>the same time with parallel development. The SS2 team
>weren't even sure how the engine would work in practice
>and were very conservative with their polygon counts.
>So it wasn't "reuse" of an engine, per se.
There was a point in the development process in which you could run
both Thief 2 and System Shock 2 from the same binary executable, with
nothing different but the data files being fed to the engine. Sounds
like reuse to me, even though the binaries diverged before ship.
Going back much farther in time, there's the famous "Worlds of Ultima"
games, which were new games shipped by Origin using the U6 engine. They
did so under economic duress -- U6 came within a week of bankrupting
the company and they couldn't afford to write a new engine for their
next game.
--
Kyle Haight
Darin Johnson
> Hey, the current incarnation of SWG,
I meant I didn't think KOTOR was that great...
Nostromo
(PDT), Anno Domini:
>On Jul 18, 2:31 pm, Nostromo <nos...@forme.org> wrote:
>> Hey, the current incarnation of SWG,
>
>I meant I didn't think KOTOR was that great...
No, I understood & agree. Just giving SWG a free plug for any SW fan out
there who by some chance hasn't tried it yet (like I hadn't up until
recently). Ignore the diehard fanboy BS & have a go I say. Play a Jedi right
off the bat if you want <G>.
--
Nostromo
Warewolf
news:s6q084hq7e1k6mpvh...@4ax.com:
> Hey, I pick a female char most of the time - I know I'd rather watch a
> female butt (assuming 3rd person over the shoulder) or form for 50+
> hrs than fantasize about being that muscley meathead warrior all that
> time lol!
Why they don't say, 'Take a screenshot. It'll last longer' I will never
understand. 9_9
Signed,
Warewolf
who can only guess what the girls of Oppai Slider think (especially after a
certain 'patch' is applied). ~_^