What makes a 'Universe', game-wise?

[Warewolf]

Yesterday, I was thinking about games with the word 'Universe' in the title
- Bust-A-Move Universe, Dance Dance Revolution Universe - the term tends to
inspire concepts that go beyond the scope of the classic title and this has
lead to lofty expectations that, if the reviews are any indication, the
final products, all-too-often, failed to live up to.

So, again, what would make a franchise game a 'Universe', in your eyes?

For that matter, how should the next 'Universe' be built?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Signed,
Warewolf
Who is sure a 'Kunio Universe' would be more than 'River City Ransom' in
space. ^_^

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

The most used is 'World Of" as in the World of Bioshock.
Meaning self contained & complete but still only part of some
greater reality.
I guess 'Universe' means includes absolutely every thing, self contained.
get a game that is 'World of' u need to buy others.
With a 'Universe of' you don't any others...ever.


(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") mouse (Its What The Marketing Peeps Can Get Away With)

[Xocyll]

Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Yesterday, I was thinking about games with the word 'Universe' in the title
>- Bust-A-Move Universe, Dance Dance Revolution Universe - the term tends to
>inspire concepts that go beyond the scope of the classic title and this has
>lead to lofty expectations that, if the reviews are any indication, the
>final products, all-too-often, failed to live up to.
>
>So, again, what would make a franchise game a 'Universe', in your eyes?

Detailed rich backstory and mythos, and presumably something that makes
it unique compared to similar games.

IE all the Elder scrolls games are set in the same universe.

All the star wars games are set in the star wars universe etc.

Your above two examples sound like general game company douchebaggery
bolting on buzzwords where they don't belong.

What pray tell is the unique, rich mythos behind DDR or BAM?

Although the first thing that popped to mind after reading DDRU was
George Lucas finally going completely and utterly insane and revising
the original Star Wars trilogy into a semi-musical full of dance
numbers.

Han not only didn't shoot first, he did a Tap number before shooting
back.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:34:46 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> looked up from reading the entrails
>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Yesterday, I was thinking about games with the word 'Universe' in the title
>>- Bust-A-Move Universe, Dance Dance Revolution Universe - the term tends to
>>inspire concepts that go beyond the scope of the classic title and this has
>>lead to lofty expectations that, if the reviews are any indication, the
>>final products, all-too-often, failed to live up to.
>>
>>So, again, what would make a franchise game a 'Universe', in your eyes?
>
>Detailed rich backstory and mythos, and presumably something that makes
>it unique compared to similar games.
>
>IE all the Elder scrolls games are set in the same universe.
>
>All the star wars games are set in the star wars universe etc.
>
>Your above two examples sound like general game company douchebaggery
>bolting on buzzwords where they don't belong.

When I read the question, the first thing that came to my mind is that
marketing was just tacking on the word 'universe' to make it unique to
their product (i.e. avoid getting sued by YoungMC for the term
Bust-A-Move for example?). Then I realized this whole discussion is
probably outside the scope of something I could contribute to, since I
don't think I currently own any games with the word universe in the
title.

When I see it (or I should say notice it, since thats rare) in game
titles, it's usually something like DC Universe Online, and in that
case I just assumed it meant any character from DC comics might appear
and/or comingle with each other, regardless of whether same
combination of characters would make sense comingling in any existing
DC comic. In other words sort of a free pass to include all the
elements of a certain category together in an all-emcompassing way
even if purists might have otherwise objected, yet defining some
boundary (i.e. calling it DC Universe precludes them from including
Marvel characters, so there are limits to the universe in that
context).

But then again I don't think I've read a DC or Marvel comic book past
the age of 8 or so, and have almost zero knowledge there, so I'll
throw my random guess out there and leave the serious discussion (and
likely better guesses) to the experts.

[David Lamb]

On 24/03/2013 11:34 PM, Xocyll wrote:
> Han not only didn't shoot first, he did a Tap number before shooting
> back.

This would for sure happen if he'd sold the rights to Bollywood instead
of Disney.

[Xocyll]

Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:34:46 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> looked up from reading the entrails
>>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Yesterday, I was thinking about games with the word 'Universe' in the title
>>>- Bust-A-Move Universe, Dance Dance Revolution Universe - the term tends to
>>>inspire concepts that go beyond the scope of the classic title and this has
>>>lead to lofty expectations that, if the reviews are any indication, the
>>>final products, all-too-often, failed to live up to.
>>>
>>>So, again, what would make a franchise game a 'Universe', in your eyes?
>>
>>Detailed rich backstory and mythos, and presumably something that makes
>>it unique compared to similar games.
>>
>>IE all the Elder scrolls games are set in the same universe.
>>
>>All the star wars games are set in the star wars universe etc.
>>
>>Your above two examples sound like general game company douchebaggery
>>bolting on buzzwords where they don't belong.
>
>When I read the question, the first thing that came to my mind is that
>marketing was just tacking on the word 'universe' to make it unique to
>their product (i.e. avoid getting sued by YoungMC for the term
>Bust-A-Move for example?). Then I realized this whole discussion is
>probably outside the scope of something I could contribute to, since I
>don't think I currently own any games with the word universe in the
>title.

I don't either, but the term has been in use for a particular meaning in
both the comic, RPG, Book and movie industries, so it really shouldn't
mean anything else in video game land.

>When I see it (or I should say notice it, since thats rare) in game
>titles, it's usually something like DC Universe Online, and in that
>case I just assumed it meant any character from DC comics might appear
>and/or comingle with each other, regardless of whether same
>combination of characters would make sense comingling in any existing
>DC comic. In other words sort of a free pass to include all the
>elements of a certain category together in an all-emcompassing way
>even if purists might have otherwise objected, yet defining some
>boundary (i.e. calling it DC Universe precludes them from including
>Marvel characters, so there are limits to the universe in that
>context).

Bingo, it's a self contained world (which may include other planets,
thus the "universe" term.

Star Trek is distinct from Star Wars is distinct from Babylon 5 is
distinct from, to jump genres, the universe described in E.E.Smiths
Lensmen books.

Each has a particular way things are done, "powers," space vessels,
space drive systems, etc that are unique (or mostly so) to their
universe - certainly the combination of things in each is unique.

Say warp drive, phasers and transporters and EVERYONE knows you're
talking about Star Trek, even the people who have never seen an episode.

Lightsabers ... enough said.

These guys are just bolting universe onto games which have no real story
at all to make it seem more exciting.

What's next, Solitaire Universe, Tic Tac Toe Universe, Tiddlywinks
Universe?

[Xocyll]

David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Well it wouldn't have been Tap in that case. :)

I now have a perverse desire to see a Bollywood Star Wars.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:46:50 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On 24/03/2013 11:34 PM, Xocyll wrote:
>>> Han not only didn't shoot first, he did a Tap number before shooting
>>> back.
>>
>>This would for sure happen if he'd sold the rights to Bollywood instead
>>of Disney.
>
>Well it wouldn't have been Tap in that case. :)
>
>I now have a perverse desire to see a Bollywood Star Wars.

Plot : Han Solo's work as a freelancer becomes more difficult as he
finds himself underbid by offshore scrub labor :)

[David Lamb]

On 26/03/2013 6:46 AM, Xocyll wrote:
> David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> looked up from reading the entrails of
> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>> On 24/03/2013 11:34 PM, Xocyll wrote:
>>> Han not only didn't shoot first, he did a Tap number before shooting
>>> back.
>>
>> This would for sure happen if he'd sold the rights to Bollywood instead
>> of Disney.
>
> Well it wouldn't have been Tap in that case. :)

Oh, you're right -- the whole cantina would have joined in a big dance
number.

[Xocyll]

Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:46:50 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>David Lamb <dal...@cs.queensu.ca> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On 24/03/2013 11:34 PM, Xocyll wrote:
>>>> Han not only didn't shoot first, he did a Tap number before shooting
>>>> back.
>>>
>>>This would for sure happen if he'd sold the rights to Bollywood instead
>>>of Disney.
>>
>>Well it wouldn't have been Tap in that case. :)
>>
>>I now have a perverse desire to see a Bollywood Star Wars.
>
>Plot : Han Solo's work as a freelancer becomes more difficult as he
>finds himself underbid by offshore scrub labor :)

Doesn't work so much.
In the Star Wars universe he was primarily a smuggler who did some other
work to cover bills and even that was dependant on him having a very
fast ship.

The cheap "offshore labor" probably has shit unreliable ships and
typical third world maintenance levels - not who I would be hiring to
deliver something that had to get there much less ride on the damn thing
myself.

Bollywood:
Somehow I don't think Bollywood would view offshore the same way
Hollywood would. And Han in a Bollywood production would be Indian too
- what exactly would be cheap offshore scrub labor in India?

Somehow being Bollywood I'd think it more likely the plot would revolve
around some runaway princess who hires Han to fly her away to avoid an
arranged marriage and who then falls in love with him - the remainder of
the movie would be the trials and tribulations of them trying to stay
together - the princess and the commoner in the face of opposition from
both sides.

[Xocyll]

I'm now trying to imagine what the alien cantina bands' "sitar" would
look and sound like.

This sounds like an neat project for some amateur animation group to
take on - even if it was just the cantina portion of the movie.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:38:14 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

I was thinking when you said Bollywood Star Wars, it meant what it
meant as written, staying true to the Star Wars universe (meaning
nobody but Harrison Ford plays Han Solo on film).

It sounds like you were thinking more along the lines of "This Being
Bollywood Space Conflict Universe", which would be a non-Lucas
approved cheap knock-off of Star Wars Universe, with lots of music,
colorful costumes and traditional dance and AT-AT Walkers replaced by
actual camels. In this case, resemblence to the actual Star Wars
franchise might start to become difficult to spot. Like maybe Space
Balls would seem spiritually closer.

In the second case, the film production itself got offshored as
opposed to offshoring as a concept being worked into the plot :)

[Xocyll]

He's a bit long in the tooth these days.

>It sounds like you were thinking more along the lines of "This Being
>Bollywood Space Conflict Universe", which would be a non-Lucas
>approved cheap knock-off of Star Wars Universe, with lots of music,
>colorful costumes and traditional dance and AT-AT Walkers replaced by
>actual camels. In this case, resemblence to the actual Star Wars
>franchise might start to become difficult to spot. Like maybe Space
>Balls would seem spiritually closer.

I was thinking more a sort of Star Wars prequel (right before the events
of the original movie,) with the Bollywood singing and dancing, but
otherwise canon. It could end with him landing on Tatooine, broken,
alone and looking for work to pay off Greedo.
They'd have to recast simply because Harrison is a bit ancient to play
the dashing young leading man these days.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 05:05:40 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>

Well it did all happen a long time ago in a galaxy far away :)

>>It sounds like you were thinking more along the lines of "This Being
>>Bollywood Space Conflict Universe", which would be a non-Lucas
>>approved cheap knock-off of Star Wars Universe, with lots of music,
>>colorful costumes and traditional dance and AT-AT Walkers replaced by
>>actual camels. In this case, resemblence to the actual Star Wars
>>franchise might start to become difficult to spot. Like maybe Space
>>Balls would seem spiritually closer.
>
>I was thinking more a sort of Star Wars prequel (right before the events
>of the original movie,) with the Bollywood singing and dancing, but
>otherwise canon. It could end with him landing on Tatooine, broken,
>alone and looking for work to pay off Greedo.
>They'd have to recast simply because Harrison is a bit ancient to play
>the dashing young leading man these days.

If Bruce Willis can keep the Die Hard thing going I don't see why Han
Solo has to be young or dashing :)

[Xocyll]

Well cause if this is happening _before_ he shot Greedo, having a 70
year old Harrison playing the part would just be laughable.

Could he even do the singing and dancing routines a Bollywood production
would require? Methinks not.

Now they could still have him in the film maybe, having him recollecting
the time before he ran into Luke and Leia, and then the new guy would do
the singing/dancing prequel.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 21:26:19 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>

Don't be so sure. The confidence he has in his own shake-that-ass
ability portrayed herein is not something that fades with time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DcWeCE9yaYQ#t=10s

[Xocyll]

Uh dude, he barely moves at all in that clip - he sways a little and
watches as _she_ moves, he could have been replaced with a pole.

Confidence? He looked wooden and uncomfortable. Or are you being
sarcastic again?

And that was 25 years ago. Big difference in what you're capable of
doing at 45 and at 70.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 05:13:45 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>

You crack me up. Yes, it was sarcasm. We gotta get you out of that
house more often.