Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Top 5 Underrated games?

1,319 views
Skip to first unread message

Silverlock

unread,
Mar 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/29/97
to

On 2 Apr 1997 01:21:04 GMT, sle...@chat.carleton.ca (Steven Leigh)
wrote:

>> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
>
> I played the demo, and couldn't figure out how to control my sub
>really, then I meandered around for a bit. Then I fired some silly Wing
>Commandereque lasers around and that was about it. Maybe I was missing
>something?
>

thats the one thing AD lacks is user defined key setting. It sucks
having to use the T rrows instead of the numeric keypad. other then
that I am finding it alot of fun. And that intro movie is IMO one of
the best ive ever seen.

>
> > 3. The Summoning
> Is this the game that was very similar to Diablo ( except it came
>out years before of course )
>
>> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
>
> Never heard of it
>> 5. Relentless
>
> And excellent game, but I eventually got stuck in an arcade
>sequence ( and I am good at arcade stuff ) where I kept dying and it took
>too long to get back to that point again and again.
>
>
> Steve
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>"He drank ice crystals laced with midnight and watched their world burn"
>-Harlan Ellison
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Silverlock, UIN 474725

Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.


KeyzerSoze

unread,
Mar 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/31/97
to

I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
worth these are my top 5.

1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
2. Archimidean Dynasty
3. The Summoning

4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic

5. Relentless

I know there are probably a lot of games that should be on this list,
but I haven't heard of them since they're underrated. So please post
your opinions, so I know what to look for when I go to the computer
store.


John McGrath

unread,
Mar 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/31/97
to

KeyzerSoze wrote:
>
> I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
> this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
> there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
> underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
> games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
> worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>
>

Add to this BURN:CYCLE . few people talk about it and it can be picked
up
cheaply but it's a great, stylish (if you liked "trainspotting" the
movie)adventure and the game runs on windows AND mac from the one cd.


Alan Jay Dion

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it
came out. Same with Relentless. My list for truely underrated
games would be, not in any special order.

Planet's Edge
Darklands
Legacy (Microprose)
Ishar 3
Dusk of the Gods (precursor to The Summoning)

Alan

KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<3340B9...@pacbell.net>...


> I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
> this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
> there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
> underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
> games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
> worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>

Stuart Southerland

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

Well, it might be premature, but I've just gotten started on a game called
"I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" I am playing it on a Macintosh. I
traded for the game, and it's a good thing that I did, 'cause I don't
think that any of the usual channels had it in stock. Even the
manufacturer didn't respond to my email.

So far, so good. It's a very serious game, real science fiction, not Star
Wars stuff. The voices are great. I love the computer's voice. The art
is good, it's that guy who did the alien interior stuff. I'm not sure
about the puzzles, but the story is great. Those who think that the story
is the most important thing, a la Gabriel Knight, should love this.

I would call it underrated for the PC platform as well, but especially the Mac.

--
stus...@ionet.net

Jeff Pack

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

In article <01bc3e95$1e1d09c0$6d01b8cd@default>, "Alan Jay Dion" <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
><3340B9...@pacbell.net>...
>> I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
>> this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
>> there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
>> underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
>> games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
>> worth these are my top 5.
>>
>> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
>> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
>> 3. The Summoning
>> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
>> 5. Relentless

My obligatory five:

1. Dragon Wars
Great game. Arguably better than Wasteland. Its main fault is that
it was designed for the Apple II when that machine was on its way out.
2. Wizardry IV: Return of Werdna
Originally for the Apple, and with early Wizardry graphics, but you
got to be the bad guy and go around killing characters--a great twist, and one
I haven't seen since (since I've yet to see Dungeon Keeper).
3. Sentinel Worlds 1: Future Magic
Played this at a friend's house who had an EGA adapter, and was wowed.
And to think, it had a plot to go with pretty pictures and gameplay! Unheard
of these days.
4. Tangled Tales
Comic RPGs never really get taken seriously, but Tangled Tales took up
a lot of my time. More an adventure game, actually, but still closer to an
RPG than what passes for one these days.
5. Keef the Thief
Originally designed for the IIGS (I think). I played the port to IBM
with a VGA card and a Game Blaster sound card. Graphics were pretty good,
sound was great, interface was mediocre, but the game was just *funny*. (Of
course, I was about 13 at the time... maybe it'd seem silly now.)
5. Keef the Thief

Louie landale

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

KeyzerSoze wrote:
>
> I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
> this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
> there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
> underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
> games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
> worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless

6. Command HQ. For its time a great game.
7. Eye of Beholder (EOB) trilogy.
8. Sword of Aragon.

Kyle Haight

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

In article <stusouth-010...@tsip1-44.ionet.net>,

Agreed. This is a serious, maturely written game. Plus, the voice of
the computer is done by Harlan Ellison. What more could anyone ask?

--
Kyle Haight
kha...@netcom.com

"We are mice, posting to Usenet in the first stages of a complex plan
to Take Over The WORLD!"

Susan

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

>I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
>this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
>there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
>underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
>games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
>worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock -- the greatest game ever made in my opinion

Games now comprise a number of huge categories on the computer.
I am interested in Adventure games and not just any adventure game but
ones that weave a story of exploration of some sort with puzzles that
appear seamless. Action, puzzle, shooter or arcade, and RPG
adventures usually do not hold my interest and usually do cause
moments of great frustration that I do not enjoy at all. System Shock
may be an exception? I loved exploring the two Ultima Underworld RPG
adventures.

Tell me if there are any difficult frustrating impossible to
manage moments in System Shock please? Is there a good review
remaining somewhere for the game? Thanks.

For recent underrated adventures of the "purer" type that I would
include in The Adventure List, I would nominate "Amber: Journeys
Beyond".

I get very upset at Egghead and CompUSA. They will listen to
your recommendations for carrying a game but I cannot talk to their
buyers. If the buyers don't buy games like "Amber" then guess what?
"Amber" becomes history and is termed underrated in this sense at
least. Guess what else? The games that sell are the games that show
up in the Top 10 Lists and the Internet PC Games Chart.

The top selling adventures do not necessarily represent the best
adventures. There are underrated adventures too that might strike
someone's fancy as much as a top selling one.

I don't work for the folks that wrote "Amber" but I am missing
their AMBERegg1.jpg. :)

* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>

Bridget Farace

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

Steven Leigh wrote:
>
> > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
>
> I played the demo, and couldn't figure out how to control my sub
> really, then I meandered around for a bit. Then I fired some silly Wing
> Commandereque lasers around and that was about it. Maybe I was missing
> something?
>
> > 3. The Summoning
> Is this the game that was very similar to Diablo ( except it came
> out years before of course )
Yeah. Except it wasn't random. But it had characters you could create
yourself,
instead of just three that you could choose from. It was nice. The
magic
system was interesting, but it was a pain sometimes. I had to start
over
once because I broke my only bottle, and I couldn't make anymore healing
potions,
and I had no saved games from before it broke. :P It had very nice
graphics
though. It was more puzzly than Diablo too.
I still have it somewhere, but it wouldn't work when I got a new
computer
and tried to install it. I think the data on one of my installation
disks is
corrupted. Pity. It was a neat game.

>
> > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
>

> Never heard of it
> > 5. Relentless
>
> And excellent game, but I eventually got stuck in an arcade
> sequence ( and I am good at arcade stuff ) where I kept dying and it took
> too long to get back to that point again and again.
>
> Steve
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "He drank ice crystals laced with midnight and watched their world burn"
> -Harlan Ellison
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bridget


Rob "Xemu" Fermier

unread,
Apr 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/1/97
to

Alan Jay Dion <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<01bc3e95$1e1d09c0$6d01b8cd@default>...

> I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
> game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it

<snip>

Well, as a programmer on the game I wasn't particularly privy to the sales
numbers, especially since the chain of information involved two separate
companies, but we (the Shock team) were told several times that Shock's
sales numbers were disappointing, and insufficient to justify a sequel.
Don't know whether or not LG broke even with the game, I believe so but not
by a whole lot. I think it basically just got a bit under-marketed and
overshadowed by the DOOM craze which was hitting at the same time. Which I
can understand, Shock is a game with a pretty steep learning curve and
whose real value comes as you get into the game while DOOM is a fun game
which is instantly accessible.

It did get quite good reviews though, but as LG has learned quite
empirically, good reviews do not necessarily translate to good sales (for
example, Terra Nova, and to a lesser extent Shock).

-- Rob "Xemu" Fermier
xe...@earthlink.net

Steven Leigh

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

> 2. Archimidean Dynasty

I played the demo, and couldn't figure out how to control my sub
really, then I meandered around for a bit. Then I fired some silly Wing
Commandereque lasers around and that was about it. Maybe I was missing
something?


> 3. The Summoning
Is this the game that was very similar to Diablo ( except it came
out years before of course )

Chris Butcher

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Susan wrote:

> > 1. System Shock -- the greatest game ever made in my opinion
>
> Games now comprise a number of huge categories on the computer.
> I am interested in Adventure games and not just any adventure game but
> ones that weave a story of exploration of some sort with puzzles that
> appear seamless. Action, puzzle, shooter or arcade, and RPG
> adventures usually do not hold my interest and usually do cause
> moments of great frustration that I do not enjoy at all. System Shock
> may be an exception? I loved exploring the two Ultima Underworld RPG
> adventures.
>
> Tell me if there are any difficult frustrating impossible to
> manage moments in System Shock please? Is there a good review
> remaining somewhere for the game? Thanks.
>

[snip]

I think you'll find that the settable difficulty levels in System Shock
will be a great help for you ... you can set combat to 0 and the action
elements will all disappear. Exploration was the best element of this
game for me as well.

Unfortunately some of the puzzles are a little artificial (having to
rewire a circuit panel to open a door gets a little tedious by the fifth
time) but this isn't really a big problem. It's a wonderfully atmospheric
game.

Chris Butcher
cbut...@atlas.otago.ac.nz


Kahlil Thomas (SM 1996)

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

: KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
: <3340B9...@pacbell.net>...
: > I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for


: > this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
: > there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
: > underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
: > games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
: > worth these are my top 5.
: >

: > 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
: > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
: > 3. The Summoning
: > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
: > 5. Relentless


: >
: > I know there are probably a lot of games that should be on this list,
: > but I haven't heard of them since they're underrated. So please post
: > your opinions, so I know what to look for when I go to the computer
: > store.


I think Starflight 2 was the number one underrated game of all time.

KVT

Namae

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:28:15 -0800, KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
>this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
>there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
>underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
>games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
>worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>
> I know there are probably a lot of games that should be on this list,
>but I haven't heard of them since they're underrated. So please post
>your opinions, so I know what to look for when I go to the computer
>store.
>

I say Terra Nova is the number one.

Saam Tariverdi

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

If you want to see some cool stuff, please check out my System Shock
Unofficial Page at the URL below. It's got a lot of stuff, and It will be
updated very often.

BTW, I DESPERATELY need more petition signings. So far, since it started
on 2/28/97, I've gotten about 35 petition signings. Not bad, but could be
better. I need MANY people to sign it. Thanks

Don't forget to sign!

--
Saam Tariverdi - sa...@icode.com
http://www.icode.com/shock
(My Unofficial System Shock Page)
Salt the Fries...

Chris Butcher <cbut...@tigger.otago.ac.nz> wrote in article
<Pine.OSF.3.91.97040...@tigger.otago.ac.nz>...

Bill Anderson

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote:

In the adventure/RPG category, I would add two games.

First, Betrayal at Krondor. Great adventure game from Sierra, and now
available FREE from their website.

Orpheo's Curse (Are You Afraid of the Dark) I've seen very little
comment on this game, possibly because it ends up in the kid's
section. Adventure game set in a theatre in Chicago. Myst-type
scenes, but based on a real theatre - I liked just walking around the
building.

Bill A.

Susan

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

>Saam Tariverdi - sa...@icode.com
>http://www.icode.com/shock
>(My Unofficial System Shock Page)

No DNS for icode.com. Did you spell it right or is it down
sometimes? Thanks.

* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>

Matthew Duncan

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

In article <01bc3e95$1e1d09c0$6d01b8cd@default>,

Alan Jay Dion <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
>game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it
>came out. Same with Relentless. My list for truely underrated
>games would be, not in any special order.
>
> Planet's Edge
> Darklands
> Legacy (Microprose)
> Ishar 3
> Dusk of the Gods (precursor to The Summoning)
>
>Alan
>

Whoo Hoo!! Someone else who's played Planet's Edge. You know, I had a guy
who E-mailed me come by my office to get hints from my hint book. Hehehe,
that game was tough but cool. Darklands is another gem.

Matt.

Matthew Duncan

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

In article <3340B9...@pacbell.net>,

KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
>this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
>there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
>underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
>games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
>worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>
> I know there are probably a lot of games that should be on this list,
>but I haven't heard of them since they're underrated. So please post
>your opinions, so I know what to look for when I go to the computer
>store.
>


Archimidean Dynasty got 4.5 out 5 stars in CGW. I agree about System
Shock.

Matt.

nihil

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

Bing wrote:
>
> > > : >
> > > : > 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion

> > > : > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> > > : > 3. The Summoning
> > > : > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> > > : > 5. Relentless
> > > : >
> >
>
> Here are my choices:
>
> 1. Sentinel Worlds 1 (What happened to 2?)
> 2. Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Inception
> 3. Kings of the Beach
> 4. XOR Football Challenge
> 5. Double Dragon

This is what I choose:

1. Air Hockey
2. Secret of Mana (It was always compared to more popular games like
Chrono Trigger and FFIII which are completely different style games).
3. Assault Rigs
4. Sky Roads
5. Wacky Wheels

I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.
My top 5 are:

1. Secret of Mana
2. StoneKeep
3. Mechwarrior 2
4. Air Hockey
5. Zelda games

List more than 5 if you want to.

#4 is supposed to say Return to Zork. (The person who made the error
has been sacked)

Brian Ekberg

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

> : KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
> : <3340B9...@pacbell.net>...

> : >

> : > 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> : > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> : > 3. The Summoning
> : > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> : > 5. Relentless
> : >

Well I would place EA's Sentinel World's much further up that list (like
right around number 1 or higher) but it's just nice to see it on the list.
As everyone here knows, that's my favorite game of all time!

Brian

Bing

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

> > : >
> > : > 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> > : > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> > : > 3. The Summoning
> > : > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> > : > 5. Relentless
> > : >
>

Here are my choices:

Quin Ryu

unread,
Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
to

Andy Kromkamp wrote:
> >
> >
> >5. Ultima 7 (many think 4 and 6 are better, but I disagree)
> >
>
> U5 is the clearly winner of the series IMO.
>

U7. The best of the series. Even Lord British himself said so.

$.02

Chris Butcher

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Jeff Pack wrote:

> My obligatory five:
>
> 1. Dragon Wars
> Great game. Arguably better than Wasteland. Its main fault is that
> it was designed for the Apple II when that machine was on its way out.
> 2. Wizardry IV: Return of Werdna
> Originally for the Apple, and with early Wizardry graphics, but you
> got to be the bad guy and go around killing characters--a great twist, and one
> I haven't seen since (since I've yet to see Dungeon Keeper).

[snip]

Funny that ... Bullfrog haven't released Dungeon Keeper yet, and I
believe there was some ruckus over Peter Molyneux possibly leaving. I
hope we get to see Dungeon Keeper, but this may prove to be a false hope.

Chris Butcher
cbut...@atlas.otago.ac.nz

James Battista

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

: > I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for


: > this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
: > there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
: > underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
: > games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
: > worth these are my top 5.

: >
: > 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
: > 2. Archimidean Dynasty
: > 3. The Summoning
: > 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
: > 5. Relentless
: >

Disney's _Stunt Island_ clearly belongs here. I still play this from time to time.
How I'd love to see a high-res, 3d-accelerator version with an object editor...

Jim Battista
PhD candidate, Dept of Political Science, Duke Univ.
jim...@mail.duke.edu
king of the impossible

Veteran

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Underrated huh? My list would be:

1. Terra Nova
2. You Don't Know Jack series (incredible games!)
3. Pirates
4. F15 Strike Eagle 3
5. Missionforce Cyberstorm

Veteran

>I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
>this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
>there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
>underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
>games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
>worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>

John Kumiko & Jennifer Ewing

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

My top under-rated games are:
1. System Shock
2. System Shock
3. System Shock
4. System Shock, and (drum roll)
5. System Shock !!!

Sorry 'bout that, but I absolutely LOVED this little gem,
and I'm STILL not even HALF done yet.

Michael J. Solomon

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

>I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.
>My top 5 are:
>
>1. Secret of Mana
>2. StoneKeep
>3. Mechwarrior 2
>4. Air Hockey
>5. Zelda games

I always answer this question with these two games -->

1. Dune. NOT Dune II by WestWood Studios but the original Dune by Cryo.
Unbelievable what they did with an FM Synthesizer.

2. Ultima VIII: Pagan - The game wasn't that great, but the music was very
realistic on a SCC-1.

Stephen Robertson

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Rob "Xemu" Fermier <xe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It did get quite good reviews though, but as LG has learned quite
> empirically, good reviews do not necessarily translate to good sales (for
> example, Terra Nova, and to a lesser extent Shock).
>

As someone who also works in the games industry I have to agree. In my
experience it doesn't really matter how good a game is - it's marketing and
hype that cause a game to sell.

I know that's a sad state of affairs, but that's the way it is. I've worked
on a few games that got really good reviews which just didn't sell due to
poor marketing, while really bad games sold by the bucket load because they
were hyped.

The best combination is a good game and great marketing. Pity we don't see
that too often.

Message for Rob Firmier:
I still think that System Shock CD is one of the best PC games ever - very
well designed, well programmed, incredible sound FX and voice acting. The
most atmospheric and downright _scary_ game I've ever played. Thank you,
and the rest of the Shock team for giving me hours of gaming pleasure. I
also really like Terra Nova - I don't know if you were involved in that
one. Again one of the best ever PC games and it's an injustice it didn't
sell well.

By the way both System Shock and Terra Nova are available in the UK on
Budget at around £10. At that price they are the bargains of the year. I
strongly urge any gamer who's not played them to buy them - at that price
they're a must have.

Steve R.
robe...@ppi.philips.co.uk

Susan

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

>overshadowed by the DOOM craze which was hitting at the same time. Which I
>can understand, Shock is a game with a pretty steep learning curve and
>whose real value comes as you get into the game while DOOM is a fun game
>which is instantly accessible.

This is a very interesting point about learning curves.
Daggerfall has what I think is a very steep learning curve. In fact
it was to steep for me and the built in tutorial was awful. I wonder
if you can compare "System Shock's" learning curve to "Daggerfall's"
or to "Ultima Underworld's". I got through learning "Ultima
Underworld's" curve but "Daggerfall" failed miserably. Does "Shock"
require a whole bunch of keyboard commands or is it largely mouse
driven like most "normal" adventures are? I don't remember
"Underworld" enough to recall its keyboard but whatever it was I
adapted to it without any stress.

* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>

Todd A Carter

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

In article <01bc3eda$5777e880$c70a...@shadow.multitude>,

Rob \"Xemu\" Fermier <xe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Alan Jay Dion <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
><01bc3e95$1e1d09c0$6d01b8cd@default>...

>> I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
>> game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it
>
><snip>
>
>Well, as a programmer on the game I wasn't particularly privy to the sales
>numbers, especially since the chain of information involved two separate
>companies, but we (the Shock team) were told several times that Shock's
>sales numbers were disappointing, and insufficient to justify a sequel.
>Don't know whether or not LG broke even with the game, I believe so but not
>by a whole lot. I think it basically just got a bit under-marketed and

snip

That's too bad. I also really loved System Shock. I wouldn't hesitate to
buy a sequel; I can't think of a more immersive game. The whole ambience
of the game, wandering through the different gardens... It FELT like a
space station should feel (like I'd know :)! It was one of the few
science fiction genre games that captured the feel of it all.

And the different settings for each part of the game made for the ability
to adjust the game completely to a persons liking.

Sigh.

I've got $60 bucks for a sequel. Anyone wanna make one?

--Todd Carter


Ajaipal Tanwar

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

In article <33432D...@lightspeed.net>, nihil <ni...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.
>My top 5 are:
>
>1. Secret of Mana
>2. StoneKeep
>3. Mechwarrior 2
>4. Air Hockey
>5. Zelda games

The best music in any game using the plain ole SB was Star Control 2. The
Spathi theme still runs through my head.

And I still play the MW2 cd at work in the background.


--
Hungry Dragon | Ajaipal Tanwar(joe...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
-==(UDIC)==- | University of Texas @ Austin

Peter

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Azeael's Tear definately belongs on this list. It's got a great story (the
best) and graphics to match!!

KeyzerSoze <bale...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<3340B9...@pacbell.net>...

John M Clancy

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

KeyzerSoze wrote:
>
> I know, horror of horror's another stupid list. There is a reason for
> this though. I've come to realize through reading the newsgroups that
> there are many games which I have never heard of because they are
> underrated. And I figure the only way I'm going to hear about these
> games is if people post a list of them. Hence this list. For what it's
> worth these are my top 5.
>
> 1. System Shock-the greatest game ever made in my opinion
> 2. Archimidean Dynasty
> 3. The Summoning
> 4. Sentinel Worlds 1 Future Magic
> 5. Relentless
>
> I know there are probably a lot of games that should be on this list,
> but I haven't heard of them since they're underrated. So please post
> your opinions, so I know what to look for when I go to the computer
> store.

Here's mine:

1. Empire Deluxe (New World Computing) Still on my HD.
2. Conquered Kingdoms (QQP) Lots of replay.
3. ShadowCaster (Looking Glass) Good, but too short.
4. Chaos Overlords (New World Computing) I liked it, just needed a
little more.
5. Ultima Underworld (Origin) Was popular but not enough acclaim IMO.
This
was the greatest game I ever played.


I wish they would make updated sequels for all of these.
I would buy them in a heartbeat!

--
John M Clancy
"Those that give up freedom for safety deserve neither"
-Benjamin Franklin
Descent Win95 Desktop Themes: http://members.aol.com/mefent/descent

B. Kidd

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

You are 105% correct, my friend. Star Control 2 definitely had it all.

--
B. Kidd

Chris West

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Michael J. Solomon wrote:
>
> >I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.
> >My top 5 are:
> >
> >1. Secret of Mana
> >2. StoneKeep
> >3. Mechwarrior 2
> >4. Air Hockey
> >5. Zelda games
>
> I always answer this question with these two games -->
>
> 1. Dune. NOT Dune II by WestWood Studios but the original Dune by Cryo.
> Unbelievable what they did with an FM Synthesizer.
>
> 2. Ultima VIII: Pagan - The game wasn't that great, but the music was very
> realistic on a SCC-1.

My favorite games, as far as music goes ->

1. Star Control II - Sometimes I would play this just to listen to the
music. Better yet, the sound and music can play out of a PC Speaker. =)

2. Dune II - I don't remember the Original Dune's music, but I loved
Dune II's.

3. Mechwarrior II - Sets the mood for the game perfectly.

4. The Killing Game Show - I actually only had the demo for the Amiga,
but I still have a .mod file of the in-game music on a disk at home.

As far as underrated games go ->

1. Dungeon Master (and its true sequel Chaos Strikes Back) - Certainly
not underrated by the Amiga community, but it took a few years to reach
the PC and didn't get much recognition there, due mainly to the DM clone
EOB and its sequels. I still prefer it to most CRPGs out today. I have
yet to try Interplay's "sequel".

2. Reach for the Stars - My favorite game of all time (I could probably
win it wearing a blindfold), at least until I bought a little game
called MOO.

3. Turbo - (O.K. So my list is bit heavy on Amiga games, but I'm having
a bit of trouble thinking of underrated PC games I have played. Maybe if
we did a list of OVERRATED games....) A fun and violent racing game.
Single player wasn't too great but it was a blast in split screen mode.
It was a sad day a few years back when the disk was corrupted. (If
anyone out there has it for the Amiga and would like to part with it,
e-mail me =) ).

4. One Must Fall - (Token PC game) My favorite fighter until SSF2T-CD.

5. Magic Carpet I/II - (Okay, so I'm finally starting to think of a
few...) Sure they enjoyed a certain degree of success, but Magic Carpet
was a far better game than similar, more popular games of its era (for
example - DOOM). Maybe if the monsters turned into blood and guts
instead of golden balls.....

6. Outpost - Hehe, just kidding. =)

Todd Howard

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Easy , and i don't agree with System Shock, and Mech 2...they have
received plenty of kudos and awards:

5. Ultima 7 (many think 4 and 6 are better, but I disagree)

4. Times of Lore (Chris Robert's first game for Origin and the original
parserless interface that sierra stole)
3. Future Shock (full 3D, mouselook, etc...a year before Quake)
2. Karateka (first game to have cutscenes and cinematic features, on the
Apple 2 none the less!!)
1. The Horde (great game by the makes of SC2, that got no credit)

- todd

Adam Atkinson

unread,
Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
to

Hired Guns (at least in the PC community)
Captive (cos it was too hard to get into, but IS worth the effort)

um. that's all I can think of right now :-)

Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
"That's the biggest shark I've ever seen" he said, superficially.


Franc Kaos

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

On 1 Apr 97 20:23:23 GMT, "Rob \"Xemu\" Fermier" <xe...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
<System Shock>

>Well, as a programmer on the game I wasn't particularly privy to the sales
>numbers, especially since the chain of information involved two separate
>companies, but we (the Shock team) were told several times that Shock's
>sales numbers were disappointing, and insufficient to justify a sequel.
Well, I bought it twice, once new in 3.5 floppy, and cheap CDROM to
play the enhanced SVGA version, definitely an underrated but excellent
game, one of a very few I bothered finishing... and surely it's still
making money, it's one of the few games that still gets spoken of
highly and still looks good... and is always on store shelves.

>It did get quite good reviews though, but as LG has learned quite
>empirically, good reviews do not necessarily translate to good sales (for
>example, Terra Nova, and to a lesser extent Shock).
Must admit fighting games in general don't hold me, played the demo of
TN, loved the landscape, loathed the game(play).
Franc Kaos ~ Delete asterisk from beginning and end
of email address ~ Too much spamming! ~ Cheers

Gamma

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

Ajaipal Tanwar <joe...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:

>nihil <ni...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.
>>My top 5 are:
>>
>>1. Secret of Mana
>>2. StoneKeep
>>3. Mechwarrior 2
>>4. Air Hockey
>>5. Zelda games
>
>The best music in any game using the plain ole SB was Star Control 2. The
>Spathi theme still runs through my head.
>

Indeed. In fact, did you try it without the SB? Like, with the
plain ol' PC speaker??? Gadzooks, they were playin' it through
the speaker and -still- sounded good... I even yanked out the
MODs to play from time to time. :)

Other good music:

Eric the Unready - I still wish I could have pulled out the
MIDIs for this. And in fact, I would pick EtU for the previous
list, of the most underrated games...

Ultima Underworld II - I loved the ice world theme...

DOOM - HA HA HA!! Okay, just kidding... maybe a couple of those
tunes were good.

Leisure Suit Larry 7: Love for Sail - great jazz.

King's Quest IV: Perils of Rosella - when it came out, sound
cards were still uncommon. Still, it did wonderful things
with that tinny lil' PC speaker.


Again, as far as underrated games - definitely Eric the Unready.
In fact, I got to try Spellcasting 101 and liked it as well
(same format, also underrated). Add to that Darklands (despite
all the bugs) and Lost Treasures of Infocom (I and II).


Paul Brinkley
ga...@clark.net

Panache

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:50:39 GMT, Chris West <dr...@wsunix.wsu.edu>
uttered these pearls of wisdom:

>As far as underrated games go ->
>
>1. Dungeon Master (and its true sequel Chaos Strikes Back) - Certainly
>not underrated by the Amiga community, but it took a few years to reach
>the PC and didn't get much recognition there, due mainly to the DM clone
>EOB and its sequels. I still prefer it to most CRPGs out today. I have
>yet to try Interplay's "sequel".

Ya beat me too it! Dungeon Master was a blast to play... I had FUN
with that game.. as well as Chaos Strikes Back. I remember the
beginning of Chaos Strikes Back.. when my party got dropped into a pit
of purple worms. My first words: "Oh, shit."

2. Sundog - Frozen Legency.
3. System Shock - 'Nuff Said.
4. The Phantasie series. (Not "Phantasie Star".) It was a CRPG back
in the early mid 80's.
5. Bacchus (Or something like that. It was released for the Atari ST
by Psygnosis in the mid 80's)

--------
"Only the crazies hang around nursery."

Remove the "X" in front of my name if you want to send me email.
Hopefully, this will kill some of the damn spam.

Yevgeny Glazamitsky

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

Dinosaurs still ruled the Earth when ta...@namaste.cc.columbia.edu (Todd
A Carter) wrote thusly:

>In article <01bc3eda$5777e880$c70a...@shadow.multitude>,


>Rob \"Xemu\" Fermier <xe...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Alan Jay Dion <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
>><01bc3e95$1e1d09c0$6d01b8cd@default>...
>>> I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
>>> game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it
>>
>><snip>
>>

>>Well, as a programmer on the game I wasn't particularly privy to the sales
>>numbers, especially since the chain of information involved two separate
>>companies, but we (the Shock team) were told several times that Shock's
>>sales numbers were disappointing, and insufficient to justify a sequel.

>>Don't know whether or not LG broke even with the game, I believe so but not
>>by a whole lot. I think it basically just got a bit under-marketed and
>
>snip
>
>That's too bad. I also really loved System Shock. I wouldn't hesitate to
>buy a sequel; I can't think of a more immersive game. The whole ambience
>of the game, wandering through the different gardens... It FELT like a
>space station should feel (like I'd know :)! It was one of the few
>science fiction genre games that captured the feel of it all.

The problem with Looking Glass is that a list of top 5 underrated games
can be made from their games alone. Ultima Underworld and UU2 were not
major sellers according to Origin, System Shock appears to have just broken
even, Terra Nova lost money and AFAIK Flight Unlimited was not a hit
either. I loved UUs and System Shock, and while I haven't played either
TN or FU, they appear to be well-liked by people whose opinion I respect.
But none of these sold well.

Maybe if LG appealed to lowest common denominator and released a superficial
real-time action-strategy game with bad AI or if they made a bad roguelike
ripoff, they would be more successful. But they seem to be under mistaken
impression that if they make a well-designed game, it will sell well.

I would love to see a sequel to SS myself, but I can understand it if LG
is apprehensive about making a sequel for a game that wasn't a financial
hit. Hopefully, their upcoming game "The Dark Project" (see URL
http://www.lglass.com/p_info/dark/index.html for early details on a very
promising RPG) will turn things around and earn LG enough money to allow
them to take some risks. They deserve some success...


Andy Kromkamp

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

In article <33446E...@erols.com>, Todd Howard <tho...@erols.com> wrote:
>Easy , and i don't agree with System Shock, and Mech 2...they have
>received plenty of kudos and awards:
>
>5. Ultima 7 (many think 4 and 6 are better, but I disagree)
>

U5 is the clearly winner of the series IMO.

4. Times of Lore (Chris Robert's first game for Origin and the original


>parserless interface that sierra stole)
>

This was a fantastic game indeed.

3. Future Shock (full 3D, mouselook, etc...a year before Quake)
>2. Karateka (first game to have cutscenes and cinematic features, on the
>Apple 2 none the less!!)
>1. The Horde (great game by the makes of SC2, that got no credit)
>

As was this, although in both cases (TOL and Horde), the game was simply
too short.

Andy K.

>
- todd

Jeff Dallacqua

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

On Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:51:05 GMT, Xpan...@juno.com (Panache) wrote:

>2. Sundog - Frozen Legency.

That game was such a blast.

>4. The Phantasie series. (Not "Phantasie Star".) It was a CRPG back

Yup. I liked one the best. Two was alright, but three wasn't that
great IMHO.

-
Jeff Dallacqua
"Life is 10% of what happens to you
and 90% of how you react to it"
-

Andrew See

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

On Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:11:36 -0800, nihil <ni...@lightspeed.net>
wrote:

>I'm interested in knowing what game everyone think has the best music.

Good topic :)

My choices would be:

MW2 + Add-ons
Time Commando
Underworld 1
X-Wing (+add ons)
Gabriel Knight


Todd Kerpelman

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

The one game that always tops my list is Infocom's "Nord and Bert
Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It" -- by far one of the most innovative
adventure games I've seen. It involved solving puzzles with wordplay.
For instance, at one point you're trying to save a farm from two
vultures that are attacking the crops. You have a stone in your
inventory. Typing in...

>Throw stone at birds

would be ineffective. You had to type:

>Kill two birds with one stone

(Get it?) You also had to power to transform things by homophones (You
can't open a door protected by "locks", but you can easily open a door
protected by "lox") and by spoonerisms (That annoying "Head louse" can
be transformed into a "Lead house").

Unfortunately, when it came out, Adventure Games with kick-ass 16 color
graphics on the Apple II were all the rage, and it didn't do as well as
it deserved. Sigh.

--Todd

Chris West

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

Panache wrote:
>
> On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:50:39 GMT, Chris West <dr...@wsunix.wsu.edu>
> uttered these pearls of wisdom:
>
> >As far as underrated games go ->
> >
> >1. Dungeon Master (and its true sequel Chaos Strikes Back) - Certainly
> >not underrated by the Amiga community, but it took a few years to reach
> >the PC and didn't get much recognition there, due mainly to the DM clone
> >EOB and its sequels. I still prefer it to most CRPGs out today. I have
> >yet to try Interplay's "sequel".
>
> Ya beat me too it! Dungeon Master was a blast to play... I had FUN
> with that game.. as well as Chaos Strikes Back. I remember the
> beginning of Chaos Strikes Back.. when my party got dropped into a pit
> of purple worms. My first words: "Oh, shit."

A pit of regenerating worms, none the less (I don't think they were
purple in Chaos, but I could be wrong...) Not too tough if you remember
how to cast fireball.. Good for training. I remember having my
characters kill worms bare-handed for hours at a time... I hated lev 3
on DM more than any other cuz of the worms.

Eric Fesler

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97
to

"Alan Jay Dion" <alan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>I don't think System Shock was "underrated. I agree it's a great
>game but I think it sold well and got good reviews when it

>came out. Same with Relentless. My list for truely underrated
>games would be, not in any special order.

> Planet's Edge
> Darklands
> Legacy (Microprose)
> Ishar 3
> Dusk of the Gods (precursor to The Summoning)

I gotta agree on Legacy. What a great game. Almost an adventure game
but if so it is by far the ONLY adventure game I have ever enjoyed.
Truely a great game (except for the ending)

Eric


Todd Howard

unread,
Apr 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/4/97