Okay, so I finally bought FALLOUT...
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Well, I told myself I haven't been playing long enough to form and voice
an accurate opinion of this game yet, but I still wanted to say
something...
Beleive it or not, though I haven't heard anyone else say this, I'm
really not terribly impressed with the game so far. The engine
itself--as well as the graphics, sound, controls, etc.--are great--I'm
not arguing that. But so far, the whole post-nuclear 1930's thing has
just, well, turned me off... I love Fantasy... I like fantasy sci-fi
(the cartoon-movie Wizards comes to mind...), and I like
post-apocolyptic stories that involve aliens or the supernatural ('The
Stand' comes to mind--for Supernatural, that is...) But
post-appocolyptic 1930's... Just hasn't managed to hook me yet. (The
Intro is pretty cool, at least...) 8( I guess I'll just have to keep
playing and hope it gets better... I heard something about a military
base being involved in the plot--and I like "evil military stuff" and
government conspiracies (X-files)... But again... Gangs, guns, mutant
rats,and 'waterchips' just... Well, don't do much for me...
Oh well... This is probably (hopefully) a wasted message--the game
probably will get better... But I thought I'd go ahead and be one of the
first to complain about this game, even if it earns me a few thousand
flames... 8P I really do love the engine and depth of the game system
(skills/etc.)... I'd love to see a fantasy game with it--I hope Baldur's
Gate's engine will be very similar...
...Don't mind me... I just like to complain... ;P ...Two or three days
from now I'll probably be on here saying what a fantastic game Fallout
is... It's definately a CRPG, and a very good one... I'm just not
thrilled with the non-fantasy non-supernatural sci-fi... 8(
...The High Toadlord
Justin A. Hussel
--
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O O Justin A. Hussel
.. The High Toadlord
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NoJunkMai...@spamfree.enteract.com
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
: Well, I told myself I haven't been playing long enough to form and voice
: an accurate opinion of this game yet, but I still wanted to say
: something...
: just, well, turned me off... I love Fantasy... I like fantasy sci-fi
: (the cartoon-movie Wizards comes to mind...)
But that's just it! It's DIFFERENT! Man, those hokey swords and dragons
and wizards and "find the pelvic bone of the enchanter's cat" games are a
dime a dozen! They're everywhere. I know its a question of context and
nothing else, but I'm thankful we're not fighting more animated skeletons
and orcs. That's really boring. Fallout is different.
The blend of the 50's and the future is interesting. Try to stay with me
as I attempt to explain how I see things: it's a computer game of the
future, as would have been designed by someone in the 1950s. It's clearly
a 50's future world, with mutations and huge Dr. Strangelove underground
vaults - I give Fallout extremely high marks for design.
Making YADDG (yet another Dungeons & Dragons game) doesn't require this
level of conceptual planning. Slap together some dungeons, some castles,
a village with a blacksmith and a pub, and you've got a game. Fallout's
an extremely creative world to explore. That's what I really like.
Scott
--
"Twentieth Century American history is the story of bad white men,
soldiers of fortune, shakedown artists, extortionists, legbreakers. The
lowest level implementors of public policy. Men who are often toadies of
right wing regimes. Men who are racists. Men who are homophobes. These
are my guys. These are the guys that I embrace. These are the guys that I
empathise with. These are the guys that I love. "
-- James Ellroy
Ken Robertson
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
<344BB094...@sprintmail.com>...
>...Don't mind me... I just like to complain... ;P ...Two or three days
>from now I'll probably be on here saying what a fantastic game Fallout
>is... It's definately a CRPG, and a very good one... I'm just not
>thrilled with the non-fantasy non-supernatural sci-fi...
>
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but just one comment. You had to
know the game's genre, so why did you buy it if you know you don't like that
kind of game. Me, I HATE real-time combat. If I see the words 'real-time
combat' on the box or in a review, then I skip it. I hope you do end up
liking it. IMO it is the best CRGP in years.
-----
Floyd Code: v1.2 r+d>s TW 0/0/ FD 0- 0 P* 5 0
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Ken Robertson wrote:
>
> Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
> <344BB094...@sprintmail.com>...
> >...Don't mind me... I just like to complain... ;P ...Two or three days
> >from now I'll probably be on here saying what a fantastic game Fallout
> >is... It's definately a CRPG, and a very good one... I'm just not
> >thrilled with the non-fantasy non-supernatural sci-fi...
>
> >
> Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but just one comment. You had to
> know the game's genre, so why did you buy it if you know you don't like that
> kind of game.
Mainly because I didn't intend to just sit around and listen to everyone
talk about the 'best CRPG in years' without checking it out myself. ;P
Generally, when a new CRPG comes out, I buy it. LOL2 is one of the
first CRPG's released in the last couple of years (other than LOL1 and
UO) I
haven't run right out and bought--partly because of the negative things
I've heard, but more because of the tremendous amount of HD space it
apparently requires.
> Me, I HATE real-time combat. If I see the words 'real-time
> combat' on the box or in a review, then I skip it.
Real time doesn't bother me that much, but I know what you mean. I
can't think of anything that immediately tells me I don't want the
game... But I generally buy only CRPG's and the occasional FANTASY
war/strategy, adventure, or even action game...
> I hope you do end up
> liking it. IMO it is the best CRGP in years.
> -----
> Floyd Code: v1.2 r+d>s TW 0/0/ FD 0- 0 P* 5 0
Actually, now that I played for another few hours and finally
got Ian on my team, I'm enjoying it quite a bit more... The battles are
much 'fairer' now, and quite a bit more amusing ('I'm gonna kick your
ass!' -- [Punch], Aaah!, [splat]. ... Though the one that really took
the cake was... 'I'll try to make this quick...' [punch, miss] [gets
hit, falls on his ass for 2 combat rounds. He he...)
I just spent the last hour wiping out most of Junktown... Just about
everyone turned against me, all because Ian missed the thug in Killian's
shop and hit a guard... Oh well, at least I've got plenty of gear/stuff
and gold, now... And wiping out half a town is actually fun. 8) As I
said, I really do like the game itself--I just would be enjoying it much
more if it had a fantasy or at least fantasy sci-fi setting.
Anyway, it's still a great game... As I said, I really love the
complexity of the engine/stats/etc. If it was fantasy or fantasy
sci-fi, I might be able to call it 'one of my favorites'... The engine
reminds me [very fondly] of Darksun 1 and 2's...
I just REALLY hope there's a villain... For me to enjoy it, a story's
GOT to have a good villian (Please don't tell me if there is or isn't
one--I'll find out for myself--I don't want any spoilers... ;) ) In
Wasteland, there was Finster... I wonder who/what there is in Fallout?
(I sincerely hope something other than gangs... 8/)
John Hoffman
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
<344BB094...@sprintmail.com>...
>
>Beleive it or not, though I haven't heard anyone else say this, I'm
>really not terribly impressed with the game so far. The engine
>itself--as well as the graphics, sound, controls, etc.--are great--I'm
>not arguing that. But so far, the whole post-nuclear 1930's thing has
>just, well, turned me off... I love Fantasy... I like fantasy sci-fi
>(the cartoon-movie Wizards comes to mind...), and I like
>post-apocolyptic stories that involve aliens or the supernatural ('The
>Stand' comes to mind--for Supernatural, that is...) But
>post-appocolyptic 1930's... Just hasn't managed to hook me yet. (The
>Intro is pretty cool, at least...) 8( I guess I'll just have to keep
>playing and hope it gets better... I heard something about a military
>base being involved in the plot--and I like "evil military stuff" and
>government conspiracies (X-files)... But again... Gangs, guns, mutant
>rats,and 'waterchips' just... Well, don't do much for me...
>
I would have to agree with you here. I also wasn't really thrilled with the
Post Nuclear environment. It is different but then again there haven't been
ANY good RPG games in years and finally a game comes out that is great
but it's this post nuclear world. Main problem is that it kinda limits the
game.
In a fantasy game you have magic in addition to weapons. In this game we
have no magic :(. No trolls :( No orcs....
However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
game
appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope that they
don't
try to improve the interface over Fallout...
John
end
Mark Eubank
Bill Bohlen wrote:
>
> The real beauty of any game lies in the slow, natural progression of the plot. A
> plus with games like Fallout and Daggerfall is the way you can use your own way of
> playing to create a plot that is uniquely your own.
> There is a villain in this game, although it may be more than one. Gangs are
> definitely a problem after a nuclear war, but there is definitely something more
> sinister going on the further along you get.
Ian running right next to an enemy to shoot a gun! Or go at 10 enemies
with a knife and not use his gun? The A.I. needs a patch. Real time
works well in Daggerfall and Diablo but turn base is good too, its how
it,s done that counts. If it,s controlable and managable and fair, its
fun. Fallout pretty much suceeds in this. The Orson Wells slant is
artistically done with class. The gore is great. But haven,t been able
to get lucky with the women. Tried Tandi after I saved her from the
raiders and she wouldn,t even give me a kiss, the ungrateful bitch!
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
NoJunkMai...@spamfree.enteract.com wrote:
>
> Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> : Well, I told myself I haven't been playing long enough to form and voice
> : an accurate opinion of this game yet, but I still wanted to say
> : something...
> : just, well, turned me off... I love Fantasy... I like fantasy sci-fi
>
> But that's just it! It's DIFFERENT! Man, those hokey swords and dragons
> and wizards and "find the pelvic bone of the enchanter's cat" games are a
> dime a dozen! They're everywhere. I know its a question of context and
> nothing else, but I'm thankful we're not fighting more animated skeletons
> and orcs. That's really boring.
(Sigh) I expected this kind of response--and I can respect your opinion,
I just don't happen to agree with it. You're right--there are dozens of
fantasy CRPG out there as apposed to only a few sci-fi CRPG's... (Though
by reading your comment I wonder if you really like fantasy CRPG's at
all.) But what people like me still really 'need' is another GOOD
fantasy CRPG. There hasn't been one of those--IMHO--since Ultima 7...
Maybe Albion (Even though that was a little more 'science-fiction-ish'
than I particularly cared for.) I was going to try to agrue that just
because something is fantasy doesn't mean it's
'same-old'/'same-old'--but now that I think of it, I really can't think
of a commercial (as in non-shareware) CRPG I ever bought and thought
that... Fantasy never bores me... The choices (world, design, and
*PLOT*) are endless. You mention fighting... I really couldn't care
less about fighting. Actually, it's what annoys me the most in any
game, and what I was almost ready to complain about in Fallout after
spending a half hour in Vault 15 blowing away rat after rat after rat...
Sitting there with a gun shooting rats is what *I* personally call
boring. Give me a good sword, some nice combat options, and some orcs
or skeletons any day. I don't like modern/realistic guns. I like
mideval (and occasionally far-future) weapons, not modern or near-past.
>Fallout is different.
I never disagreed with you or anyone else there...
> The blend of the 50's and the future is interesting. Try to stay with me
> as I attempt to explain how I see things: it's a computer game of the
> future, as would have been designed by someone in the 1950s. It's clearly
> a 50's future world, with mutations and huge Dr. Strangelove underground
> vaults - I give Fallout extremely high marks for design.
Now see, this is what pisses me off. IMHO, it could have been SO GOOD
if they'd AT LEAST done MODERN Post Appocolyptic. (As in now or a few
years in the future.) The first thing I thought when I started was...
"Why the hell did they decide to do a future-setting with a
1930's/50's/whatever atmosphere???! Of course, again, its a matter of
preference... But America 1800 through 1960 means NOTHING to me... It
bores me if I have to study or read about it, and it annoys me if what
could be a great game is set in it...
> Making YADDG (yet another Dungeons & Dragons game) doesn't require this
> level of conceptual planning. Slap together some dungeons, some castles,
> a village with a blacksmith and a pub, and you've got a game.
I would agree with you if the commercial market was filled with games
like this--but IMHO, it really isn't. To make a good fantasy CRPG, you
need a hell of a lot more than that--a good detailed plot, world, etc.
Name ONE modern CRPG (released in the last 3-5 years) that fits your
description. (I personally don't consider Arena or Daggerfall to fit
that description, though of course you still might... )
> Fallout's
> an extremely creative world to explore. That's what I really like.
I wasn't denying that. But again, it just boils down to preferences and
opinion. As I've said over and over again... I just don't like 1950's
stuff... I like post-appocolyptic, but only if it: a) involves aliens
and/or the supernatural b) involves fantasy or 'magic' c) is set in
the FAR or at least moderately distant future.
(Sigh) Oh well... Again, I respect your (and everyone else's) opinions,
I just don't agree with them. I guess I'll just keep playing Fallout
and hope it gets better... If I focus on the game rather than the story
and setting I actually enjoy it more, if that makes sense... But I'd
wager I'll have to wait for Baldur's Gate (or maybe Might and Magic VI)
before I find something I'd call 'The Ultimate CRPG'...
Respectfully,
Justin A. Hussel
The High Toadlord
Gordo
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
<344BC7DD...@sprintmail.com>...
>NoJunkMai...@spamfree.enteract.com wrote:
>Now see, this is what pisses me off. IMHO, it could have been SO GOOD
>if they'd AT LEAST done MODERN Post Appocolyptic. (As in now or a few
>years in the future.) The first thing I thought when I started was...
>"Why the hell did they decide to do a future-setting with a
>1930's/50's/whatever atmosphere???! Of course, again, its a matter of
>preference... But America 1800 through 1960 means NOTHING to me... It
>bores me if I have to study or read about it, and it annoys me if what
>could be a great game is set in it...
IMHO there are only two ways to do a good post-nuclear CRPG: far in the
future, or 1950's/60's. America in the 1950's and 1960's was terrified of
nuclear war. There were "bomb shelters" everywhere - you could walk down a
street in any town and see the yellow and black nuclear shelter signs
pointing the way to a "safe" shelter. People actually built fallout
shelters in their back yards. In school we had "tornado" drills that were
actually nuclear attack drills. We got nuclear bomb propaganda that looked
almost exactly like the stuff in the Vault Dweller's Survival Guide. The
threat of a Soviet nuclear attack was real and on our minds all the time, or
at least the US government propaganda made sure it was on our minds all the
time. Fallout was clearly designed by baby-boomers who grew up during those
fearful times, and they captured the atmosphere well, at least during the
early part of the game (I'm not very far into it yet).
I don't think a "modern post apocolyptic" CRPG would be nearly so
interesting. The threat of nuclear war is much less today, so it wouldn't
have as much potential to be such an original game. I think it would have
to be based on some other kind of disaster that's more likely to occur, or
is on everyone's minds now. But then it might be too real-life to be
enjoyable, eh?
Bill Bohlen
The real beauty of any game lies in the slow, natural progression of the plot. A
plus with games like Fallout and Daggerfall is the way you can use your own way of
playing to create a plot that is uniquely your own.
There is a villain in this game, although it may be more than one. Gangs are
definitely a problem after a nuclear war, but there is definitely something more
sinister going on the further along you get.
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote:
>
>
> I just REALLY hope there's a villain... For me to enjoy it, a story's
> GOT to have a good villian (Please don't tell me if there is or isn't
> one--I'll find out for myself--I don't want any spoilers... ;) ) In
> Wasteland, there was Finster... I wonder who/what there is in Fallout?
> (I sincerely hope something other than gangs... 8/)
>
> ...The High Toadlord
> Justin A. Hussel
NoJunkMai...@spamfree.enteract.com
: like this--but IMHO, it really isn't. To make a good fantasy CRPG, you
: need a hell of a lot more than that--a good detailed plot, world, etc.
: Name ONE modern CRPG (released in the last 3-5 years) that fits your
: description. (I personally don't consider Arena or Daggerfall to fit
: that description, though of course you still might... )
"Fantasy" seems to be the ONLY major RPG that gets made, at least to me.
You're right when you surmised that I'm not a big fantasy fan - I guess I
burned out on those playing the first 5 Ultimas. Of the RPGs in recent
times I've felt compelled to buy, they were all more fantasy: Arena,
Stonekeep, Diablo (please no comments on Diablo's RPG-worthiness)...
they're all fantasy. There have been plenty I haven't played. The Lands
of Lore series, the Quest For Glory series, the Might & Magic series...
all fantasy, and all very popular games. Fallout's the first non-fantsy
RPG I can think of in recent times.
: I wasn't denying that. But again, it just boils down to preferences and
: opinion. As I've said over and over again... I just don't like 1950's
: stuff... I like post-appocolyptic, but only if it: a) involves aliens
: and/or the supernatural b) involves fantasy or 'magic' c) is set in
: the FAR or at least moderately distant future.
If you can tell me a few good futuristic or alien-themed RPGs, I'll gladly
check them out. For the life of me, I can't think of a single good
"supernatural" RPG - the only one that comes even close was BloodNet, and
that was terrible.
: (Sigh) Oh well... Again, I respect your (and everyone else's) opinions,
: I just don't agree with them. I guess I'll just keep playing Fallout
: and hope it gets better... If I focus on the game rather than the story
: and setting I actually enjoy it more, if that makes sense... But I'd
: wager I'll have to wait for Baldur's Gate (or maybe Might and Magic VI)
: before I find something I'd call 'The Ultimate CRPG'...
What you would call "ultimate" and what I would call "ultimate" are
clearly miles apart. I just hope Fallout encourages a few more companies
to experiment with RPGs that AREN'T fantasy, for those of us who like the
style but not the setting.
: Respectfully,
: Justin A. Hussel
"Respectfully" is the key word. When was the last time Usenet hosted a
good debate (like this one's shaping up to be) that didn't degenerate into
flames and name-calling? Glad to converse with you, sir.
Timothy Cain
In article <62h38o$sck$1...@newman.pcisys.net>,
"Gordo" <go...@pcisys.DELETEME.net> wrote:
>Fallout was clearly designed by baby-boomers who grew up during those
>fearful times, and they captured the atmosphere well, at least during the
>early part of the game (I'm not very far into it yet).
Hey, we're not that old! I'll have to check my picture on the web page.
Seriously, the artists just thought that 50's tech looked cool. So they set out to make a future
science that looked like what the Golden Era of science fiction thought that future science would
look like (if you can follow that sentence). Vacuum tubes, ray guns, mutants, the whole works. And
I think they succeeded quite well.
We didn't start out this way. Over the 3.5 years to make this game, things changed a lot (take a
look in /program/goodies, for example). One day I may write the story of the making of this game.
Not in my wildest dreams did I imagine what the process would be like. The high points were very
high, and the low points were very, very low. If I had to do it again...
Tim.
----------------
Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
John Hoffman
Ken Robertson wrote in message <62hcde$8g8$1...@winter.news.erols.com>...
>>However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
>>mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
>>game
>>appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope that they
>>don't
>>try to improve the interface over Fallout...
>
>I agree the engine is pretty good, but there are some things that can be
>improved. My short (and incomplete) list:
>
>1) Trading items between party members could be simplified.
Definitely! All item management could be improved. Support for page up
page down, put most recent items on top of inventory, etc. Trading with
party
members isn't too bad if you know you can steal from them. Handling
containers
is also a problem.
>
>2) Party NPCs not block doors so that you can't get out of a room.
This isn't really much of a problem. Talk to the NPC and tell them to
change
formation, then move back. They get out of your way.
>
>3) Party NPCs not acting like kamikazes. Unless they have that trait of
>course.
Again you can effect this by making sure they have weapons and ammo. Then
tell them to change formation staying close or moving back. Seems to help.
I
chalk some of this up to personality. Ian likes to go in close, but tycho
likes to hang
back.
>
>4) Being able to leave a town without having to hike all the way to the
exit
>square (Like the Hub) unless there is a very good reason for not doing so.
Probably ok, there are pros & cons to this. It's quicker, but it isn't very
realistic.
>
>5) Giving a light source for dark areas that works. I could never get
>flares to work unless I dropped them.
>
I agree here. The flare should cast illumination if lit in your hand.
John
end
Ken Robertson
John Hoffman wrote in message <62ig77$r...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>>1) Trading items between party members could be simplified.
>
>Definitely! All item management could be improved. Support for page up
>page down, put most recent items on top of inventory, etc. Trading with
>party members isn't too bad if you know you can steal from them. Handling
>containers is also a problem.
>
option you eventually wind up overloading the NPC. You get a message that
says something like 'No more room for that item' or something. If you then
go the barter route, you can give the NPC the item and many more. I can't
remember, but I think you can overload yourself that way too. I have to go
back and check that.
>>
>>2) Party NPCs not block doors so that you can't get out of a room.
>
>
>This isn't really much of a problem. Talk to the NPC and tell them to
>change formation, then move back. They get out of your way.
>
True. Eventually. It just gets really annoying to have to keep doing it.
>>
>>3) Party NPCs not acting like kamikazes. Unless they have that trait of
>>course.
>
>Again you can effect this by making sure they have weapons and ammo. Then
>tell them to change formation staying close or moving back. Seems to help.
>I chalk some of this up to personality. Ian likes to go in close, but
tycho
>likes to hang back.
>
I made the mistake of letting Tycho carry some spiked brass knuckles. He
apparently considered these his best weapon for most of the game until I
gave him a hunting rifle. Ian, even though he had a perfectly good .44
pistol, would still go up and try HtH with the bad guys.
>>
>>4) Being able to leave a town without having to hike all the way to the
>exit
>>square (Like the Hub) unless there is a very good reason for not doing so.
>
>Probably ok, there are pros & cons to this. It's quicker, but it isn't
very
>realistic.
Not realistic, but you can enter a town this way. So it would be
consistent.
>
>>
>>5) Giving a light source for dark areas that works. I could never get
>>flares to work unless I dropped them.
>>
>I agree here. The flare should cast illumination if lit in your hand.
>
I asked about this last week, and Chris gave me instructions on how to use
the flare as a light source, but I couldn't get it to work. This might be a
bug.
Jerry Morelock
Well, Tim, whatever your age and motivations you have all succeeded in
producing one helluva game! By the time my fourth or fifth hour with
Fallout had passed--which only felt like a few minutes, BTW--I had regained
a feeling that I hadn't experienced since playing Starflight and Bard's
Tale. You folks have put the awe, joy and wonder back in my computer. (And
as an added bonus, 99% bugless, as well!) I could gush on and on but I've
got a vault I gotta save. Please don't make us wait thirteen more years for
a game of Fallout's caliber!
Regards to all of you who made Fallout possible,
Jerry Morelock
P.S.--You may not have intended it, but the guide sho' nuff gave me first
grade flashbacks, also. You've caught a lot of the 1957-1962 flavor
(showing my age) better than you may realize.
ch...@icat.rmci.net
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:27:16 -0400, "Justin A. Hussel, The High
Toadlord" <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>...Don't mind me... I just like to complain... ;P ...Two or three days
>from now I'll probably be on here saying what a fantastic game Fallout
>is... It's definately a CRPG, and a very good one... I'm just not
>thrilled with the non-fantasy non-supernatural sci-fi... 8(
If, by "sci-fi" you mean "science fiction," are you saying that you
don't like science fiction that isn't fantasy and doesn't involve
supernatural occurrences?
There's not a lot of _decent_ science fiction that fits into that
category.
That's similar to saying tha you aren't a big fan of CRPG's with
character statistics, detailed stories, and characters who improve
through experience.
Bottom line: if it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. Just don't
rag on something for being in a specific genre if you don't like that
genre.
Ken Robertson
John Hoffman wrote in message <62h6g4$d...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>I would have to agree with you here. I also wasn't really thrilled with
the
>Post Nuclear environment. It is different but then again there haven't
been
>ANY good RPG games in years and finally a game comes out that is great
>but it's this post nuclear world. Main problem is that it kinda limits the
>game.
>In a fantasy game you have magic in addition to weapons. In this game we
>have no magic :(. No trolls :( No orcs....
>
decent CRPGs in a long time and when I found out this was sorta sci-fi, I
thought: "FINALLY!" To be honest I was getting tired of CRPGs being the
same sword and sorcery theme. What we can hope for is that there will be a
rebirth of CRPGs that will give us a variety of genres so that everyone will
get something they like.
>However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
>mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
>game
>appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope that they
>don't
>try to improve the interface over Fallout...
I agree the engine is pretty good, but there are some things that can be
improved. My short (and incomplete) list:
1) Trading items between party members could be simplified.
2) Party NPCs not block doors so that you can't get out of a room.
3) Party NPCs not acting like kamikazes. Unless they have that trait of
course.
4) Being able to leave a town without having to hike all the way to the exit
square (Like the Hub) unless there is a very good reason for not doing so.
5) Giving a light source for dark areas that works. I could never get
flares to work unless I dropped them.
Ken
daboltz
Personally, I am TOTALLY sick of the fantasy genre. It's like a good song
that is played to death on the radio for a year straight. You end up
hating the song, and likewise I hate any fantasy that is not Lord of the
Rings (for computer games). Big Kudos to Interplay for making something
Different! Excellent game!
John Hoffman <jhof...@nospam.com> wrote in article
<62h6g4$d...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
> <344BB094...@sprintmail.com>...
> >
> >Beleive it or not, though I haven't heard anyone else say this, I'm
> >really not terribly impressed with the game so far. The engine
> >itself--as well as the graphics, sound, controls, etc.--are great--I'm
> >not arguing that. But so far, the whole post-nuclear 1930's thing has
> >just, well, turned me off... I love Fantasy... I like fantasy sci-fi
> >(the cartoon-movie Wizards comes to mind...), and I like
> >post-apocolyptic stories that involve aliens or the supernatural ('The
> >Stand' comes to mind--for Supernatural, that is...) But
> >post-appocolyptic 1930's... Just hasn't managed to hook me yet. (The
> >Intro is pretty cool, at least...) 8( I guess I'll just have to keep
> >playing and hope it gets better... I heard something about a military
> >base being involved in the plot--and I like "evil military stuff" and
> >government conspiracies (X-files)... But again... Gangs, guns, mutant
> >rats,and 'waterchips' just... Well, don't do much for me...
> >
>
>
> I would have to agree with you here. I also wasn't really thrilled with
the
> Post Nuclear environment. It is different but then again there haven't
been
> ANY good RPG games in years and finally a game comes out that is great
> but it's this post nuclear world. Main problem is that it kinda limits
the
> game.
> In a fantasy game you have magic in addition to weapons. In this game we
> have no magic :(. No trolls :( No orcs....
>
> However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
> mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
> game
> appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope that
they
> don't
> try to improve the interface over Fallout...
>
> John
>
>
>
Matt Rollefson
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg "John Hoffman" <jhof...@nospam.com> writes:
[Comments about Fallout's setting deleted.]
>However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
>mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
>game appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope
>that they don't try to improve the interface over Fallout...
I'm afraid you're in for a disappointment here -- it looks like you
expect them to use the same engine. They're not going to -- completely
different development house. They've got their own engine -- one
that's party-oriented, among other things. It looks pretty good on
paper though, so I'd say reserve judgment until we've had a chance to
see it.
Rollie
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
ch...@icat.rmci.net wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:27:16 -0400, "Justin A. Hussel, The High
> Toadlord" <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >...Don't mind me... I just like to complain... ;P ...Two or three days
> >from now I'll probably be on here saying what a fantastic game Fallout
> >is... It's definately a CRPG, and a very good one... I'm just not
> >thrilled with the non-fantasy non-supernatural sci-fi... 8(
>
> If, by "sci-fi" you mean "science fiction," are you saying that you
> don't like science fiction that isn't fantasy and doesn't involve
> supernatural occurrences?
Maybe I should have been a little more specific. I don't like REALISTIC
or 'MODERN' sci-fi. I love fantasy sci-fi, and you're right, there
isn't a whole lot of it out there--the Deathgate Cycle (more fantasy
than sci-fi) is the only series I can think of off the top of my head...
One of my all time favorites. I like mysterious sci-fi dealing with the
supernatural and aliens and [ESPECIALLY] Conspiracies, as in X-Files.
Just because something deals with the 'supernatural' doesn't mean it's
fantasy! I also like far/moderately-far future sci-fi with an epic and
fantasy-like feel to it, even if it is rather
plausible/realistic--Babylon 5 comes to mind, my all-time favorite TV
series. What I DON'T like--again--is realstic sci-fi that deals only
with science and technology.
> There's not a lot of _decent_ science fiction that fits into that
> category.
Read what I said above. Again, there isn't a lot of really good fantasy
sci-fi, but there certainly is plenty of sci-fi that involves the
"supernatural." Unexplained things/powers/events don't make something
fantasy or otherwise 'unrealistic.' I sincerely beleive even magic is
plausible... Though I won't get into any kind of explanation here.
> That's similar to saying tha you aren't a big fan of CRPG's with
> character statistics, detailed stories, and characters who improve
> through experience.
Sorry, but I don't agree with you there... There may not be a lot of
good fantasy sci-fi, but there's still plenty of sci-fi that fits the
descrpiton of 'what I personally like.' Again, maybe I should have been
more specific originally--but I've explained better... Now.
> Bottom line: if it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. Just don't
> rag on something for being in a specific genre if you don't like that
> genre.
You apparently missed the entire point of my post. I never said
'Fallout sucks' or ragged on it in any other way. I admit it's a great
game. The engine is excellent. All I said--and ever will say--is that
I personally don't like the 'realistic non-supernatural sci-fi' feel,
that because of that I don't enjoy it as much as I would if the game was
fantasy. I'm voicing an opinion, nothing else. That's part of the
purpose of this newsgroup. If you don't agree with my opinions, either
ignore me or respond and voice your own opinions. But please don't try
to tell me I don't have a right to voice mine.
Ken Robertson
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord wrote in message
<344E3A9E...@sprintmail.com>...
>daboltz wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I am TOTALLY sick of the fantasy genre. It's like a good
song
>> that is played to death on the radio for a year straight. You end up
>> hating the song, and likewise I hate any fantasy that is not Lord of the
>> Rings (for computer games). Big Kudos to Interplay for making something
>> Different! Excellent game!
>
>Oh well--everyone's entitled to their opinions... I'm just surprised to
>see people reading the CRPG newsgroup who are "so sick of" or otherwise
>'disgusted' with fantasy.... Unless of course it's just Fallout that
>brought you and others to this newsgroup...
>
Ah, but, nowhere in CRPG is the word 'fantasy' used. A role playing game
can be any genre, any time period, anywhere. Just because the most famous
role-playing is the AD&D type fantasy doesn't mean that others don't exist.
There were two SSI games based on the Buck Rogers universe. The
MegaTraveller series was another. The Star Wars universe is PtP, but no
computer games yet. (And I really would like to see that done as well.) Now
the Wasteland/Fallout out series is here and will hopefully be around for
many more games.
I, too, am tired of the same old fantasy type games. Yet another magic
system to learn! <groan> The some old orcs and dwarves, etc. <snore> I
play those games because I like RPGs better than any other type of game.
And I play them because that is all that is generally offered. Don't
despair, there will be plenty of fantasy game for you to play. I will wait
eagerly for Fallout 2 and will snatch it up the moment it hits the shelves.
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Timothy Cain wrote:
>
> In article <62h38o$sck$1...@newman.pcisys.net>,
> "Gordo" <go...@pcisys.DELETEME.net> wrote:
> >Fallout was clearly designed by baby-boomers who grew up during those
> >fearful times, and they captured the atmosphere well, at least during the
> >early part of the game (I'm not very far into it yet).
>
>
> Seriously, the artists just thought that 50's tech looked cool. So they set out to make a future
> science that looked like what the Golden Era of science fiction thought that future science would
> look like (if you can follow that sentence). Vacuum tubes, ray guns, mutants, the whole works. And
> I think they succeeded quite well.
>
> We didn't start out this way. Over the 3.5 years to make this game, things changed a lot (take a
> look in /program/goodies, for example). One day I may write the story of the making of this game.
> Not in my wildest dreams did I imagine what the process would be like. The high points were very
> high, and the low points were very, very low. If I had to do it again...
>
> Tim.
> ----------------
> Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
Well, I definately agree you all did a fantastic job [with Fallout]--I
never denied Fallout wasn't one of the best CRPG's released in a long
time, I was just making a comment based on my personal preference for
fantasy. Again, great work (I know all those out there sick of fantasy
are even more grateful for the game than I am)--I'm still playing and
enjoying Fallout, and will most likely be doing so until I finish it...
I just personally like fantasy and fantasy sci-fi better than
non-fantasy sci-fi... And some things about the 50's tend to bug me at
times... ;P
...The High Toadlord
Justin A. Hussel
--
Ken Robertson
I decided to see how many CRPGs over the years have been fantasy as opposed
to other types. Since I keep all my games inventoried in an Excel
spreadsheet, it is pretty easy. The following list is of games that I
personally own. I have borrowed some others, Ultima 5 and Might and Magic I
being two that I remember. Some of the titles may not arguably be CRPGs,
but they have RPG attributes. Feel free to criticize my list.
The list follows. What can we learn from this list:
1) I have no life.
2) I have a lot of disposable income.
3) I have personally kept several companies in business.
4) Proportional fonts make aligning columns a real bitch.
5) 20 of 91 (or approx. 21%) of the games are not of the Fantasy genre.
Albion SF
Anvil of Dawn Fantasy
Alien Logic SF
Betrayal at Krondor Fantasy
Betrayal in Antara Fantasy
Battletech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception SF
Battletech: The Cresent Hawk's Revenge SF
Bloodstone Fantasy
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday SF
Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed SF
Champions of Krynn Fantasy
Curse of the Azure Bonds Fantasy
Dark Knights of Krynn Fantasy
Darklands Fantasy
Diablo Fantasy
Dungeon Hack Fantasy
Dungeon Master Fantasy
Escape from Hell Modern
Eye of the Beholder Fantasy
Eye of the Beholder II Fantasy
Eye of the Beholder III Fantasy
Fallout Modern/SF
Gateway to the Savage Frontier Fantasy
Hard Nova SF
Jagged Alliance - Deadly Games Modern
Keef the Thief Fantasy
Lands of Lore Fantasy
Legends of Valour Fantasy
Martian Dreams Fantasy
MegaTraveller 1 SF
MegaTraveller 2 SF
Menzoberanzan Fantasy
Might and Magic II Fantasy
Might and Magic III Fantasy
Might and Magic: Clouds of Xeen Fantasy
Might and Magic: The Darkside of Xeen Fantasy
Mines of Titan SF
Pirates of Realmspace Fantasy
Planets Edge SF
Pool of Radiance Fantasy
Pools of Darkness Fantasy
Prophecy of the Shadow Fantasy
Questron II Fantasy
Ravenloft Fantasy
Realms of Arkania Fantasy
Savage Empire Fantasy
Secret of the Silver Blades Fantasy
Sentinel Worlds SF
Shattered Lands Fantasy
Spell Craft: Aspects of Valor Fantasy
Star Command SF
Stone Prophet Fantasy
Stonekeep Fantasy
Superhero League of Hoboken SF
Swords of Xeen Fantasy
The Bard's Tale Fantasy
The Bard's Tale Construction Set Fantasy
The Bard's Tale II Fantasy
The Bard's Tale III Fantasy
The Dark Heart of Uukrul Fantasy
The Dark Queen of Krynn Fantasy
The Elder Scrolls: Arena Fantasy
The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall Fantasy
The Magic Candle Fantasy
The Magic Candle II Fantasy
The Magic Candle III Fantasy
The Red Crystal Fantasy
The Shadow of Yserbius Modern
The Summoning Fantasy
Thunderscape Fantasy
Treasures of the Savage Frontier Fantasy
Twilight: 2000 Modern
Ultima I Fantasy
Ultima II Fantasy
Ultima III Fantasy
Ultima IV Fantasy
Ultima Underworld Fantasy
Ultima Underworld II Fantasy
Ultima VI Fantasy
Ultima VII - Serpent Isle Fantasy
Ultima VII - The Black Gate Fantasy
Ultima VIII: Pagan Fantasy
Unlimited Adventures Fantasy
Wake of the Ravager Fantasy
Wasteland Modern/SF
Wizardry I: The Proving Grounds Fantasy
Wizardry II: Knight of Diamonds Fantasy
Wizardry III: Legacy of Llylgamyn Fantasy
Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom Fantasy
Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge Fantasy
Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark SavantFantasy
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
--
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Ken Robertson wrote:
> Ah, but, nowhere in CRPG is the word 'fantasy' used. A role playing game
> can be any genre, any time period, anywhere. Just because the most famous
> role-playing is the AD&D type fantasy doesn't mean that others don't exist.
> There were two SSI games based on the Buck Rogers universe. The
> MegaTraveller series was another. The Star Wars universe is PtP, but no
> computer games yet.
> (And I really would like to see that done as well.) Now
On a side-note: I'd probably enjoy a good Star Wars CRPG myself... As I
mentioned before, I like sci-fi with an 'epic' or 'fantasy-like' feel...
I consider Star Wars sci-fi fantasy rather than strict or realistic
sci-fi... I'd also love to see a Babylon 5 CRPG, whether or not you've
ever heard of or have a high or low opinion of the series... But I think
we can expect to see a Star Wars CRPG first... (I'm surprised there
hasn't been one already...)
> the Wasteland/Fallout out series is here and will hopefully be around for
> many more games.
Wasteland had Martians, didn't it? I haven't run into any aliens in
Fallout yet... Maybe I will... (Don't tell me whether I will or
not!--Leave it for me to find out. ;) ) Anyway, as I said, I like
Fallout, and wouldn't mind seeing some more games in the series... I'll
just put more 'buying precidence' on games like MM6, Baldur's Gate,
Wizardry 8, etc.
> I, too, am tired of the same old fantasy type games. Yet another magic
> system to learn! <groan> The some old orcs and dwarves, etc. <snore> I
> play those games because I like RPGs better than any other type of game.
> And I play them because that is all that is generally offered.
That makes sense. I was just curious--I'd never really heard that many
people complain about being 'tired of fantasy CRPG's' before I posted my
comment on Fallout...
> Don't
> despair, there will be plenty of fantasy game for you to play. I will wait
> eagerly for Fallout 2 and will snatch it up the moment it hits the shelves.
I know, I know... And don't let my complaints mislead you--I'm still
enjoying Fallout. But me--I'm still anxiously awaiting MM6, Baldur's
Gate, and Wizardry 8. I'd like to see a Fallout 2 and would probably
buy it eventually (or right away if there weren't any other new CRPG's
out when it came out), but not over or instead of the fantasy games I
just personally prefer...
Again: to each his own... ;)
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Gordo wrote:
>
>
> IMHO there are only two ways to do a good post-nuclear CRPG: far in the
> future, or 1950's/60's. America in the 1950's and 1960's was terrified of
> nuclear war. There were "bomb shelters" everywhere - you could walk down a
> street in any town and see the yellow and black nuclear shelter signs
> pointing the way to a "safe" shelter. People actually built fallout
> shelters in their back yards. In school we had "tornado" drills that were
> actually nuclear attack drills. We got nuclear bomb propaganda that looked
> almost exactly like the stuff in the Vault Dweller's Survival Guide. The
> threat of a Soviet nuclear attack was real and on our minds all the time, or
> at least the US government propaganda made sure it was on our minds all the
> time. Fallout was clearly designed by baby-boomers who grew up during those
> fearful times, and they captured the atmosphere well, at least during the
> early part of the game (I'm not very far into it yet).
> I don't think a "modern post apocolyptic" CRPG would be nearly so
> interesting. The threat of nuclear war is much less today, so it wouldn't
> have as much potential to be such an original game. I think it would have
> to be based on some other kind of disaster that's more likely to occur, or
> is on everyone's minds now.
I see your point, and I agree the Fallout designers did a good job with
their time-period selection, atmosphere, etc... But I don't agree a
post-nuclear CRPG set in the present or near future wouldn't work... I
certainly don't see why another world war couldn't start today and we'd
all be blown away tomorrow... (That's a terrible sentence, but it still
makes the point... ;P ) Of course, post-appocolyptic doesn't have to be
post-nuclear, either... I'd love to see a CRPG or adventure game based
on Stephen King's _The Stand_.
> But then it might be too real-life to be
> enjoyable, eh?
Not necessarily. It just depends on what they focussed on. If they
only focussed on the 'realistic' and 'scientific' stuff, sure... But
there's no reason it couldn't involve the supernatural, aliens, etc....
Even some form of magic... That's what I loved so much about 'The Death
Gate Cycle', my all-time favorite [book] series... You find out in Book
3 [STOP READING NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT A DEATH GATE SPOILER....]
...That the 4 [fantasy-style] worlds are actually the post-appocolyptic
remenants of earth... And of course, there are books and movies like
'Wizards', another of my favorite post-appocolyptic fantasy sci-fi
stories/animated movies...
Philth
In article <62mnga$f...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, Timothy Cain <cai...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a
> time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
>we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games
> too. If not, then
>after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
>
>Tim.
>-------------
>Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
I couldn't agree with you more.
I'd personally love to see something like Fallout mixed with a Starflight
game. It would be incredible. (You guys are halfway there! hint! hint!)
Phil
Rik Flor
>I decided to see how many CRPGs over the years have been fantasy as opposed
>to other types. Since I keep all my games inventoried in an Excel
>spreadsheet, it is pretty easy. The following list is of games that I
>personally own. I have borrowed some others, Ultima 5 and Might and Magic I
>being two that I remember. Some of the titles may not arguably be CRPGs,
>but they have RPG attributes. Feel free to criticize my list.
<Impressive CRPG list snipped>
Wow! Questron, even! Doesn't THAT bring back memories. I only have
two quibbles with your list:
Both Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Revenge and Jagged Alliance should
probably be better catagorized as tactical combat games with a really
good story background. However, I will agree that Crescent Hawk's
Inception should be an RPG.
Rik
--------
Rik Flor
Remove the "spamless" before you reply to me
You know the drill...anything I say is my own and does not
represent Abbott Laboratories in any way.
The Heechee
Lone_War <Lone...@fastinet.net> felt like saying:
>Timothy Cain wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
>> we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too. If not, then
>> after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
>>
>> Tim.
>> -------------
>> Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
>Oh, Please, please, please, make one of each. If the are as good as
>Fallout was (ie details of the game) then you have GUARANTEED one sale
>for each of those. And I can probably drum up 5 or 6 other sales per
>title. Just one qualification, they have to be turn based in combat,
>otherwise I cannot play them. Maybe you could get the rights for Cthulu
>by H.P.Lovecraft, for your Horror game. That would be absolutely
>fantastic.
I agree. A combat-turn-based RPG about the Cthulhu Mythos...cool. (I'd
love seeing a goldbox game in that direction!) You'd have to get the
rights from Chaosium, Inc. though...
Shouldn't be too hard since they've already gave a license to
Infogrames for Prisoner of Ice and Shadow of the Comet...also for
Alone in the Dark 1 ? Hmm...
..........................................................
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- "I em Heetsee. I fill to you no harrum." -
Ken Robertson
Rik Flor wrote in message <344f7444....@wizid.cmis.abbott.com>...
>Wow! Questron, even! Doesn't THAT bring back memories. I only have
>two quibbles with your list:
>
>Both Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Revenge and Jagged Alliance should
>probably be better catagorized as tactical combat games with a really
>good story background. However, I will agree that Crescent Hawk's
>Inception should be an RPG.
>
>Rik
You are right about Crescent Hawk. I just looked at game and am not sure
why I categorized it as RPG. Probably a mistake. Jagged Alliance is one of
those games that could be classified as just about anything. However it did
have role-playing elements in that your mercs stats would go up as they used
certain skills. To me it was more of a role-playing game than Diablo.
Twilight: 2000 is in the same boat as JA. I'm not really sure what they
are, so I included them. If you take out the questionable games (JA, B:CH,
and T:2K) then you have 78 of 90 games being in the Fantasy genre, which
further proves my point (whatever it was) that the Fantasy genre dominates
the CRPG arena. And I think that's why myself and others are tired of it.
I will buy Fallout 2, Fallout 2 Add-on Pack1, Fallout 2 Add-on Pack 2,
Fallout 3, etc.
Philth
>>Oh, Please, please, please, make one of each. If the are as good as
>>Fallout was (ie details of the game) then you have GUARANTEED one sale
>>for each of those. And I can probably drum up 5 or 6 other sales per
>>title. Just one qualification, they have to be turn based in combat,
>>otherwise I cannot play them. Maybe you could get the rights for Cthulu
>>by H.P.Lovecraft, for your Horror game. That would be absolutely
>>fantastic.
>
>I agree. A combat-turn-based RPG about the Cthulhu Mythos...cool. (I'd
>love seeing a goldbox game in that direction!) You'd have to get the
>rights from Chaosium, Inc. though...
>Shouldn't be too hard since they've already gave a license to
>Infogrames for Prisoner of Ice and Shadow of the Comet...also for
>Alone in the Dark 1 ? Hmm...
I'll also toss a vote in for a Lovecraft RPG. It would be too cool to
wander a map and end up in Innsmouth. Imagine being caught inside
a building after it gets dark. Incredible sub-plots here .. The Lovecraftian
world has soooooo much to offer. One could easily take every story
he has written and work it into an entire game. (or just base the game
around one of them, or just the theme(s).)
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> Yeah, I'd love to see a CRPG using something like the Call of Cthulhu rules.
> Unfortunately, pretty much every CRPG is combat-heavy, which doesn't suit
> Lovecraft's mythos. A well-made Lovecraft CRPG would be a fresh idea simply
> because the emphasis would be on NPC interaction rather than combat.
> (Unfortunately, this also means that the Fallout engine wouldn't be
> suitable)
>
> Dennis
> ----
> df...@erols.com (Erol's Internet)
> dfe...@gl.umbc.edu (UMBC)
As with many (maybe most) horror or fantasy book-based games... Maybe it
would work better as an Adventure game (or adventure with some
role-playing elements)... Legend is known for making great book-based
adventure games... Most 'good' fantasy, horror, and sci-fi focus on plot
and charater interaction rather than 'combat'... So again, most games
based on books end up having an 'adventure game' feel, even if they
weren't meant to...
...The High Toadlord
Justin A. Hussel
--
Brian Rauchfuss
On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 05:30:27 GMT, Timothy Cain <cai...@ix.netcom.com> spake:
>I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
>we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too. If not, then
>after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
Call up the Babylon 5 people, they might be interested in you doing a B5
CRPG. (It would be great!)
>Tim.
>-------------
>Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
Brian
Timothy Cain
In article <344E853A...@sprintmail.com>,
"Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord" <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>That makes sense. I was just curious--I'd never really heard that many
>people complain about being 'tired of fantasy CRPG's' before I posted my
>comment on Fallout...
I have. Everytime the press saw Fallout in-house for the past year, they'd ask me "Why did you
make a post-nuclear game? Everyone plays fantasy." and I'd reply that I'm sick of fantasy role
playing games. There are so many genres and all we see are dungeons and magic and zombies. And I
got a LOT of email from people who agreed with me.
I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too. If not, then
after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
Tim.
Lone_War
Oh, Please, please, please, make one of each. If the are as good as
Fallout was (ie details of the game) then you have GUARANTEED one sale
for each of those. And I can probably drum up 5 or 6 other sales per
title. Just one qualification, they have to be turn based in combat,
otherwise I cannot play them. Maybe you could get the rights for Cthulu
by H.P.Lovecraft, for your Horror game. That would be absolutely
fantastic.
BTW, even if your game suck, I would still by it because of your
commitment to the customer that I see here on the net. Please, keep it
up.
--
Billie F. Krieger III
Dragon Clan Spy/Trader
Death is a feather, Duty is a mountain.
Ken Robertson
Timothy Cain wrote in message <62mnga$f...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>...
>In article <344E853A...@sprintmail.com>,
> "Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord" <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>>That makes sense. I was just curious--I'd never really heard that many
>>people complain about being 'tired of fantasy CRPG's' before I posted my
>>comment on Fallout...
>
>I have. Everytime the press saw Fallout in-house for the past year, they'd
ask me "Why did you
>make a post-nuclear game? Everyone plays fantasy." and I'd reply that I'm
sick of fantasy role
>playing games. There are so many genres and all we see are dungeons and
magic and zombies. And I
>got a LOT of email from people who agreed with me.
>
>I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a
time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
>we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these
games too. If not, then
>after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
>
>Tim.
>-------------
>Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
>
Amen, Brother! You have one guaranteed customer. It's good to see that
someone is picking up the ball that Richard Garriott dropped.
Dennis Ferguson
Philth wrote in message <344f9...@204.120.4.15>...
>>>Maybe you could get the rights for Cthulu
>>>by H.P.Lovecraft, for your Horror game. That would be absolutely
>>>fantastic.
>>
>>I agree. A combat-turn-based RPG about the Cthulhu Mythos...cool. (I'd
>>love seeing a goldbox game in that direction!)
>
>I'll also toss a vote in for a Lovecraft RPG.
Yeah, I'd love to see a CRPG using something like the Call of Cthulhu rules.
Ray@BioWare
>On 22 Oct 1997 17:55:40 GMT, rol...@next.com (Matt Rollefson) wrote:
>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg "John Hoffman" <jhof...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>[Comments about Fallout's setting deleted.]
>
>>However that game engine is as close to perfect as I can imagine. I sent
>>mail to interplay telling them to pass this on to the balders gate. This
>>game appears to be similar to Fallout except it's fantasy. Lets hope
>>that they don't try to improve the interface over Fallout...
>
>I'm afraid you're in for a disappointment here -- it looks like you
I hope you suffer no disappointment!
>expect them to use the same engine. They're not going to -- completely
>different development house. They've got their own engine -- one
>that's party-oriented, among other things. It looks pretty good on
>paper though, so I'd say reserve judgment until we've had a chance to
>see it.
>
>Rollie
True though, we are a completely separate development team from
Interplay's - but we have the same division director (Feargus down at
the RPG division of Interplay, a genuinely fine fellow), and look at
Fallout as a game to beat - it's great in my opinion (still haven't
played the full version, but I played most of the betas thanks to
Interplay).
Our interface is fairly elegant and easy to use too (or at least I
hope it is... :)
ray
------------------------
dr ray muzyka
cfo and joint-ceo, bioware corp.
producer, baldur's gate
www.bioware.com
www.interplay.com/bgate
------------------------
Balut
In article <34504a4a...@news.v-wave.com>, r...@bioware.com says...
>
>>On 22 Oct 1997 17:55:40 GMT, rol...@next.com (Matt Rollefson) wrote:
>
>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg "John Hoffman" <jhof...@nospam.com> writes:
>>
>>[Comments about Fallout's setting deleted.]
>>
>
>Our interface is fairly elegant and easy to use too (or at least I
>hope it is... :)
>
>ray
>
Will Baldur's Gate involve real-time or turn-based combat? I ask because I
_love_ the turn-based combat of Fallout, and in general feel real-time combat
doesn't really improve RPGs. One of the worst combat systems I've played was
in Ultima 7 - as soon as combat started, all my npc's rushed off to their
deaths because it is both real-time and their AI was incredibly stupid. IIRC,
someone stated that Baldur's Gate is party-oriented, so how will the combat
system be implemented so as to prevent the loss of control that could easily
occur with real-time?
- Balut
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Led Mirage wrote:
>
> In article <slrn64vo30.3...@fri021.fm.intel.com>,
> Brian Rauchfuss <br-a...@NOSPAMpcocd2.intel.com> wrote:
> >
> >Call up the Babylon 5 people, they might be interested in you doing a B5
> >CRPG. (It would be great!)
>
> as well as an anthology of the B5 universe. The first one will be a space
> shooter. The other one would probably be an adventure game (well, its
> Sierra). However, I haven't noticed anyone doing a Travellers games. But
> really, though I think the Fallout team has tremedous creativity and not
> need to rely on licensed products or books. Let them go hog wild and do
> their thing.
UGG! Hey, all you game companies out there--someone (like Interplay)
steal the B5 liscence from Sierra!! We need some GOOD B5 games! >:P
(I don't hate Sierra, but I know a lot of people out there do, and I'm a
bit dissapointed (and disgusted with many of the technical aspects of)
BIA...
(Sigh)... I really hope Sierra's B5 games are at least playable and the
world-anthology has at least some quality... The only B5 PC products out
there now--at least the one set I bought, the B5 Collector's Set or
something or other ( screen savers & graphics) --are basically crap.
(Some nice screen-shots from the show, but not much else...)
I LOVE the Babylon 5 series, world, characters, story, etc. --it's
probably my favorite series of all time (I worship JMS as a god)... I'd
LOVE to see a GOOD Babylon 5 CRPG or Adventure game... As in one that
truly does justice to the series and B5 universe! (And preferably at
least one game set DURING the Shadow War instead of before or after
it!!)
Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord
Personally, I loved U7's combat system--largely because I hardly ever
even noticed it! I just made sure everyone was well-equipped and got
through most battles in seconds. Combat is my least favorite part of
almost any CRPG--I love games that allow the player to focus on the
story and NPC interaction rather than the combat... Personally, I hope
Baldur's Gate gives players a choice (in an options/preferences
section--hopefully easily interchangable at any time) over real-time
(with improved AI) or turn-based...
That's not to say that I don't love Fallout's combat system, but
again... I really like a game that let's me focus on exploration and NPC
interaction rather than combat... Excessive combat and a monotonous
system is partly why I'll probably never finish Wizardry 6 or 7... 8(
Led Mirage
In article <62o1c8$b...@thira.arkaden.net>,
The Heechee <hee...@mindless.com@damnspam> wrote:
>Shouldn't be too hard since they've already gave a license to
>Infogrames for Prisoner of Ice and Shadow of the Comet...also for
>Alone in the Dark 1 ? Hmm...
AITDs are not licensed Cthulhu products. Infogramme originally intended
AITD1 as their firat Cuthulhu product, but along the way, they'd decided
not to do it (sort of like Fallout and SJG). But it doesn't really matter
as AITD 1 just oozes Cthulhu, unlike the sequels.
Led Mirage
In article <344F08...@fastinet.net>,
Lone_War <Lone...@fastinet.net> wrote:
>title. Just one qualification, they have to be turn based in combat,
>by H.P.Lovecraft, for your Horror game. That would be absolutely
>fantastic.
Well, "horror" games never do anything for me. The only game where I
actually feel fear is Alone In The Dark (very Lovecraftian). However, I'd
very much like to see a far futre ultra high-tech SCI. fi. game (the
emphasis is on science. I'm sick of space operas). But I absolutely agreed
with Tim Cain. I'm bored and sick of fantasy RPGs. And yes, there are so
many sub-genre out there of RPGs. Medieval/Tolkienesque fantasy is just
done to death.
Led Mirage
Ken Robertson
From what I've been reading from the posts here I think you will do just
fine. As long as you have turn-base combat that is.
-----
Floyd Code: v1.2 r+d>s TW 0/0/ FD 0- 0 P* 5 0
Ray@BioWare wrote in message <345047c5...@news.v-wave.com>...
>Wow. I'm impressed. That's even more RPG's than I've ever played,
>and I've played a lot of these...
>
>Hope we can do ya justice in the one we're working on, Baldur's
>Gate...
>
>later,
>
>ray
>
Meghan Jenks (Interplay)
>
>I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
>we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too. If not, then
>after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
I second that! I love fantasy RPG's as well, but I'd still love to
see more RPG's in other settings. How about one based on the Alien
movies? ;) There was an adventure game, but that's about the closest.
Meghan
=====================================================================
Meghan S. Jenks mje...@interplay.com
Interplay Productions - By Gamers. For Gamers. alt.games.interplay
www.dragonplay.com www.interplay.com www.macplay.com
For online happenings, see http://www.interplay.com/events/index.html
Ray@BioWare
Wow. I'm impressed. That's even more RPG's than I've ever played,
and I've played a lot of these...
Hope we can do ya justice in the one we're working on, Baldur's
Gate...
later,
ray
Timothy Cain
In article <34504a4a...@news.v-wave.com>,
r...@bioware.com (Ray@BioWare) wrote:
>True though, we are a completely separate development team from
>Interplay's - but we have the same division director (Feargus down at
>the RPG division of Interplay, a genuinely fine fellow), and look at
>Fallout as a game to beat - it's great in my opinion (still haven't
>played the full version, but I played most of the betas thanks to
>Interplay).
And I am deliberately NOT playing any betas of Baldur's Gate because I want to enjoy the final
product from start to finish. The graphics are absolutely beautiful, especially since they are 16
bit, and I don't see anything else on the horizon that competes.
Sorry if this sound like I'm tooting Interplay's horn, but I've never even met Ray or the Bioware
team. I just want to play this game like all of you.
Tim.
----------------------
Fallout Producer and Lead Programmer
Interplay Productions
Nathan Carter (AC)
> >I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG. I'm hoping
> >we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too. If not, then
> >after Fallout 2, I'll make one, dammit! :)
>
> I second that! I love fantasy RPG's as well, but I'd still love to
> see more RPG's in other settings. How about one based on the Alien
> movies? ;) There was an adventure game, but that's about the closest.
The Fallout engine (or a derivative thereof) would probably work really
well for a CRPG in the Alien genre. Compare the ruined Vault 15 to the
ruined outposts in the Aliens movie...just substitute Newt for Tandi and
the bitch-queen for the Master .....hmmmm...
- Nathan / Mega
/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Nathan Carter Senior Student Technology Consultant|
|Academic Computing University of South Florida, Tampa|
|Voice: (813) 974-1222 email: nca...@ritchie.acomp.usf.edu|
\-------------------------------------------------------------------/
Desslock
Timothy Cain wrote:
>
> In article <344E853A...@sprintmail.com>,
> "Justin A. Hussel, The High Toadlord" <hus...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >That makes sense. I was just curious--I'd never really heard that many
> >people complain about being 'tired of fantasy CRPG's' before I posted my
> >comment on Fallout...
>
> I have. Everytime the press saw Fallout in-house for the past year, they'd ask me "Why did you
> make a post-nuclear game? Everyone plays fantasy." and I'd reply that I'm sick of fantasy role
> playing games. There are so many genres and all we see are dungeons and magic and zombies. And I
> got a LOT of email from people who agreed with me.
100% Agreed. I'm commonly asked if I know of any RPGs coming out or
currently available which involve a theme other than "D&D", "Swords &
Sorcery", etc. Until Fallout, the only good ones I could think of were
Wasteland, the two Star Flight games, Star Control 2 (a RPG imo) and
Origin's old 2400 AD, all pretty ancient. There were also a couple of
"gold box" Buck Rogers games, and Origin's Ultima 6 spinoff, Martian
Dreams, but sci-fi RPGs are pretty rare.
A lot of people, including myself, love pseudo-medieval settings, but
it's so refreshing to see a RPG in a different setting. But I was aware
that there would be fans such as yourself, Justin, which is why I
pointed out in my Fallout preview that the science fiction setting of
Fallout was going to be a "positive" attribute to certain gamers and a
"negative" attribute to others.
> I'd love to see a good horror RPG, or high-tech space RPG, or maybe a time-travel RPG.
Heh, wondered about that "TARDIS" reference...
I'm hoping
> we are seeing a revival of the CRPG market, because then I can play these games too.
Well, you're certainly doing your part, Tim <grin>
Desslock
--
RPG "Therapy" Column: http://www.gamepen.com/therapy/pc.rpg
Desslock's Guide to Upcoming Role-Playing
Games:http://www.gamepen.com/desslock/
(this week: Battlespire Coverage: Preview and Part One of an Extensive
Interview with Julian Lefay, Project Manager of Battlespire, Ken Rolston
Designer of Battlespire and Todd Howard, Project Manager of Redguard)
John Henders
>I'd personally love to see something like Fallout mixed with a Starflight
>game. It would be incredible. (You guys are halfway there! hint! hint!)
That would be something like Sundog. A Sundog successor with the Fallout
engine would be very nice.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*