KOTOR : Melee or Range ??
Law
is there any reason to favour melee weapons over range weapons ?
thx
Jonah Falcon
"Law" <la...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3FC42D3E...@yahoo.com...
> just a beginner question
>
> is there any reason to favour melee weapons over range weapons ?
Yeah, you're going to be weilding a lightsaber most of the time later in the
game. Let your non-Jedi companions have range abilities.
Law
when use melee weapon you need to get shot at for a few times before get into
attack range ??
on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound silly)
Jonah Falcon
"Law" <la...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3FC43096...@yahoo.com...
> but i haven't play that far yet, so for non Jedi character why not all use
gun .
>
> when use melee weapon you need to get shot at for a few times before get
into
> attack range ??
>
> on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound
silly)
Because the sword is still powerful. Even as a non-Jedi, most of the time,
swords and grenades are enough.
Andreas Baus
> but i haven't play that far yet, so for non Jedi character why not all use gun .
But later, you will curse yourself for every ranged-weapon oriented feat
that you took and that will remain unused, while you could have taken a
powerful melee feat (critical strike, flurry, power attack) instead that
would serve greatly to support your lightsaber fighting.
> when use melee weapon you need to get shot at for a few times before get into
> attack range ??
For one thing, Jedi can deflect blaster bolts with their sabers, so this is
less of a problem for them. Furthermore, Jedi Guardians get a special
ability that lets them force jump at their enemies, bringing them into
melee range almost instantly. But even before that, there are shield
generators quite readily available, that protect even non-jedi from blaster
fire very effectively.
> on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound silly)
On the other hand, I see not reason not to try something like that, except
for the fact that there seems to be no ranged weapon that can equal the
damage output of a decently upgraded lightsaber... the only thing you
really lose is the blaster bolt deflection ability.
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
GungHo
> just a beginner question
>
> is there any reason to favour melee weapons over range weapons ?
If you have a decent strength stat, you (and NPCs like Big Z) may get more
milage out of melee, both early and late game. Some of the late game
blasters are good, but for whatever reason, blasters have been nerfed in
this game, whereas blades have not been.
And, with the way the game is written, you can get inside on someone
without taking too many hits. Once you become/start using Jedi, this
becomes even more prevalent, as they can 1. deflect blaster shots and 2. if
you are/work with a Jedi Guardian, they can Super Mario from enemy to enemy
(sometimes it works that way litteraly Jump-Kill, Jump-Kill).
Moreover, if you set your main character up to use blasters, unless you
want to be one of those "Jedi Gunslingers" people like to bandy about, you
will be pretty disappointed. Moreover, there is no blaster, even upgraded,
that matches a single, upgraded lightsaber, much less a saberstaff or dual-
wielded sabers.
CCF
Melee, the rnaged weapons you will find are really underpowered for the
entire game and, since you beocme a Jedi, the lightsabre is the
uber-weapon. Don't waste your skill points in something you will not use
after you become a jedi. Dump everything into melee weapons and flurry
or power attack.
Andreas Baus
> Dump everything into melee weapons and flurry or power attack.
Don't forget critical strike. Put one of those crystals in the saber that
make it 'keen' and you have a critical range of 17-20. With master
critical, that (theoretically) gets quadrupled to 5-20, which means that 4
out of 5 hits become criticals. AND it has a certain chance to stun the
opponent (which appears to be independent on whether you actually make a
critical or not, an ordinary hit seems to be enough, as far as I understand
it).
Christopher Tong
>>on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound silly)
> On the other hand, I see not reason not to try something like that, except
> for the fact that there seems to be no ranged weapon that can equal the
> damage output of a decently upgraded lightsaber... the only thing you
> really lose is the blaster bolt deflection ability.
And the fact that the numerous Jedi you have to fight in the game will
just obliterate you.
Problem 1: you can't hit them at range and sometimes, they will bounce
your shots back at you.
Problem 2: you can hit them at close range, but so can they and they do
much more damage.
Chris
Christopher Tong
> CCF <c...@xsprintmailx.com> wrote:
>>Dump everything into melee weapons and flurry or power attack.
> Don't forget critical strike. Put one of those crystals in the saber that
> make it 'keen' and you have a critical range of 17-20. With master
> critical, that (theoretically) gets quadrupled to 5-20, which means that 4
> out of 5 hits become criticals. AND it has a certain chance to stun the
> opponent (which appears to be independent on whether you actually make a
> critical or not, an ordinary hit seems to be enough, as far as I understand
> it).
'Keen' is not affected by critical strike. So you "only" get crits on
11-20 if you have a keen lightsabre and master critical strike. It's
definitely a sneak attack scoundrel skill.
Chris
Law
Andreas Baus wrote:
> For one thing, Jedi can deflect blaster bolts with their sabers, so this is
> less of a problem for them. Furthermore, Jedi Guardians get a special
> ability that lets them force jump at their enemies, bringing them into
> melee range almost instantly. But even before that, there are shield
> generators quite readily available, that protect even non-jedi from blaster
> fire very effectively.
only Jedi Guardians get force jump ?? damn i already choose to be jedi sentinel.
> On the other hand, I see not reason not to try something like that, except
> for the fact that there seems to be no ranged weapon that can equal the
> damage output of a decently upgraded lightsaber... the only thing you
> really lose is the blaster bolt deflection ability.
so range weapon is only for beginner, got it,
thx
--
Law
> Melee, the rnaged weapons you will find are really underpowered for the
> entire game and, since you beocme a Jedi, the lightsabre is the
> uber-weapon. Don't waste your skill points in something you will not use
> after you become a jedi. Dump everything into melee weapons and flurry
> or power attack.
OK melee is the only way for my character, but what about other NPC ?? will
there be more powerful range weapon for those weaker NPC ?
Law
> Don't forget critical strike. Put one of those crystals in the saber that
> make it 'keen' and you have a critical range of 17-20. With master
> critical, that (theoretically) gets quadrupled to 5-20, which means that 4
> out of 5 hits become criticals. AND it has a certain chance to stun the
> opponent (which appears to be independent on whether you actually make a
> critical or not, an ordinary hit seems to be enough, as far as I understand
> it).
Woo sound so powerful, it will be stupid not to do as you say
thx
Andreas Baus
> Andreas Baus wrote:
>> On the other hand, I see not reason not to try something like that, except
>> for the fact that there seems to be no ranged weapon that can equal the
>> damage output of a decently upgraded lightsaber... the only thing you
>> really lose is the blaster bolt deflection ability.
> And the fact that the numerous Jedi you have to fight in the game will
> just obliterate you.
> Problem 1: you can't hit them at range and sometimes, they will bounce
> your shots back at you.
> Problem 2: you can hit them at close range, but so can they and they do
> much more damage.
They can't deflect shots or hit you back if they are stunned or paralyzed
or panicked - and there are plenty of force powers that can put them into
such a state. For a Consular with high wisdom and/or charisma, these work
on a regular basis even against tougher opponents, because of the high
spell save DC
And then there's still your party members, who, once properly trained, can
serve as tanks for you...
CCF
There are better ranged weapons- they are the "named" ranged weapons
that are upgradable. They're better but still not in the same league as
the lightsabres.
Johnny Bravo
>but i haven't play that far yet, so for non Jedi character why not all use gun .
Energy shields.
>when use melee weapon you need to get shot at for a few times before get into
>attack range ??
That few is deceptive, each "round" a few shots are fired, but
normally only one of those shots has a chance to hit you. I've never
taken more than one round of fire while closing in on my opponents,
and since I'm using an energy shield as well I just ignore their puny
attempts to hurt me. :)
>on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound silly)
Blaster rifle 1-8 damage and needing lots of energy shields.
Mid game lightsabre 6-26 damage and the ability to pretty much
ignore blaster fire.
Late game: Your opponents will be cutting you to ribbons with
lightsabres. :)
--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
Lynley James
But that pretty much is how the SW universe is setup. The sabre is
the most powerful handheld weapon in the universe.
Lynley
Stephen Mackey
>But that pretty much is how the SW universe is setup. The sabre is
>the most powerful handheld weapon in the universe.
Pardon me while I gag.
--
Stephen Mackey
James Garvin
>
> Lynley James said:
>
> >But that pretty much is how the SW universe is setup. The sabre is
> >the most powerful handheld weapon in the universe.
>
> Pardon me while I gag.
Why?
Stephen Mackey
>> >But that pretty much is how the SW universe is setup. The sabre is
>> >the most powerful handheld weapon in the universe.
>>
>> Pardon me while I gag.
>
>Why?
Because I don't see any proof in the SW universe that causes the light sabre to
be as load-blowingly good as all that. Sure, it can cut through stuff good.
And if you're good with it you can use it to deflect blaster bolts. So? I can
think of plenty of REAL WORLD weapons that would kick the light saber's ass,
let alone scientifically impossible weaponry from a sci-fi universe. The only
reason a blaster doesn't work good against a light saber in the game is because
the game designers made it so. In the movies any immunity to blastboltdom was
due to the skill of the character (AKA, his or her importance to the Plot), not
the weapon involved.
--
Stephen Mackey
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Because I don't see any proof in the SW universe that causes the light sabre to
> be as load-blowingly good as all that. Sure, it can cut through stuff good.
> And if you're good with it you can use it to deflect blaster bolts. So? I can
> think of plenty of REAL WORLD weapons that would kick the light saber's ass,
> let alone scientifically impossible weaponry from a sci-fi universe. The only
> reason a blaster doesn't work good against a light saber in the game is because
> the game designers made it so. In the movies any immunity to blastboltdom was
> due to the skill of the character (AKA, his or her importance to the Plot), not
> the weapon involved.
When you were invited to play cops and robbers as a child, you refused
because a pointed finger is obviously not a gun, right?
--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.ma...@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Courageous
>I can think of plenty of REAL WORLD weapons that would kick the light saber's ass,
A sawed-off shot gun?
In one corner, Annakin Skywalker. In the other, Jed.
Jed exclaims, "Let's make him squeal like a pig!"
The music begins, an foot-stomping country banjo tune.
% twang-ta-ta-twang-twang %
And now you know what made Annakin so bitter, all those years.
*grin*
C//
James Garvin
First of all we are talking about "The Star Wars Universe" (tm). The
meat world has no impact on that universe and the same goes for other
sci fi univeres.
The light saber is only effective is wielded by a jedi...is that not
true in KOTOR? And I must say your chacter is pretty damn important to
the plot...
Stephen Mackey
>The light saber is only effective is wielded by a jedi...is that not
>true in KOTOR? And I must say your chacter is pretty damn important to
>the plot...
>
Yeah, so there's no real reason for him not to be equally effective in the game
with a blaster as he is with a light saber, except for light sabers having the
"coolness factor." It's just bad game design.
--
Stephen Mackey
Courageous
>Yeah, so there's no real reason for him not to be equally effective in the game
>with a blaster as he is with a light saber, except for light sabers having the
>"coolness factor." It's just bad game design.
*laugh*
Why does having "coolness factor" constitute "bad game design"? As a general
hint "bad game design" is not a valid phrase substitute for "I don't like it."
C//
James Garvin
Huh? How is a blaster the same as a light saber?
Stephen Mackey
>*laugh*
>
>Why does having "coolness factor" constitute "bad game design"?
There's nothing wrong with a weapon being cool. But when you have it
mechanically better than other weapons simply BECAUSE it is cool, and have
feats devoted to those other weapons that players will never use because the
cool weapon is better, then you might as well have not put in those inferior
weapons and feats to start with, for all the good they do. It's like crossbows
in Baldur's Gate... no one uses them when they can use a bow instead because
bows are just better, so there's no point in having crossbows in the game in
the first place. It's a waste.
--
Stephen Mackey
Courageous
>>Why does having "coolness factor" constitute "bad game design"?
>There's nothing wrong with a weapon being cool. But when you have it
>mechanically better than other weapons simply BECAUSE it is cool, ...
But in fact, that actually *is* what Star Wars is about in some
respect, as any objective analysis of the whole "light sabre effect"
by someone unwilling to suspend disbelief would quickly reveal that
any "light sabre wielding idiot" would quickly be dead meat when
faced down by someone using weapons designed specifically for the
task. Shotguns? Hand Grenades. And so on.
Star Wars is not science fiction. It's science *fantasy*.
Enjoy the fantasy. Stop thinking.
C//
Stephen Mackey
>Huh? How is a blaster the same as a light saber?
>
It's not "the same," but there's no serious reason for it not to have
advantages to counterbalance it properly against a LS in the game.
--
Stephen Mackey
James Garvin
You are one of those people who talks through movies saying:
"THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!"
"HE REALLY COULDN'T DO THAT!"
"HAHAHAHA...NOBODY CAN JUMP LIKE THAT!"
Man...take a chill and enjoy the game for what it is.
Stephen Mackey
>You are one of those people who talks through movies saying:
Please don't speculate on my behavior in public places based on my opinion on
game design. It hurts my feelings.
And in any case, I'm perfectly willing to suspend my disbelief. But if a guy
plays KOTOR without knowing that LSs are better, and decides on the ranged
attack feat route because he feels like it, and only realizes it days later
when he simply can't get past Darth Bob, wouldn't you say there's a problem
somewhere? And since making LSs the best doesn't enhance the gameplay,
wouldn't it be better to make the LS route equal rather than utterly superior?
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Star Wars is not science fiction. It's science *fantasy*.
>
>Enjoy the fantasy. Stop thinking.
Why should I turn my brain off when the game designers could turn their brains
on? That's what they're paid for, after all.
"Hey, maybe these three feats and these umpteen weapons shouldn't be completely
useless to the main character in the last part of the game... ya think?"
--
Stephen Mackey
Hong Ooi
wrote:
>Courageous said:
>
>>Star Wars is not science fiction. It's science *fantasy*.
>>
>>Enjoy the fantasy. Stop thinking.
>
>Why should I turn my brain off when the game designers could turn their brains
>on? That's what they're paid for, after all.
D00d, it's Star Wars. If you can't hack lightsabers being the uberweapon,
you shouldn't be playing Star Wars. Play D&D or something, and argue about
katanae instead.
>"Hey, maybe these three feats and these umpteen weapons shouldn't be completely
>useless to the main character in the last part of the game... ya think?"
Yes.
--
Hong Ooi | "Does *anyone* at WOTC bother to
ho...@zipworld.com.au | _think_ when making housecat stats?"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- MSB
Sydney, Australia |
Hong Ooi
wrote:
>James Garvin said:
>
>>You are one of those people who talks through movies saying:
>
>Please don't speculate on my behavior in public places based on my opinion on
>game design. It hurts my feelings.
DOGPILE THE NEWBIE!
CCF
> There's nothing wrong with a weapon being cool. But when you have it
> mechanically better than other weapons simply BECAUSE it is cool, and have
> feats devoted to those other weapons that players will never use because the
> cool weapon is better, then you might as well have not put in those inferior
> weapons and feats to start with, for all the good they do. It's like crossbows
> in Baldur's Gate... no one uses them when they can use a bow instead because
> bows are just better, so there's no point in having crossbows in the game in
> the first place. It's a waste.
Why have pistols or SMG's in JA2? They have less range and do less
damage than assault rifles and functionally serve do useful purpose in
the game. Daggers have no point in BG2 (and they really don't). Bows are
better becuase, well in real life, they are better weapons than the
crossbow. A Crossbow's only edge is that any schlep can use one while
bows require tons of skill. Every game has better and worse weapons.
The lightsabre in the SW world does more damage, look at how it burned
through blast doors in Ep1 whereas we've seen blasters not go through
relatively simple walls in other flicks. Now, is this real per physics?
Who the fuck knows and/or cares? In this world the LS is the king of the
hill and what balances the LS is that your foes will use them too.
CCF
> Why should I turn my brain off when the game designers could turn their brains
> on? That's what they're paid for, after all.
> "Hey, maybe these three feats and these umpteen weapons shouldn't be completely
> useless to the main character in the last part of the game... ya think?"
Again, dump all your skill points in BG2 into dagger or club or scimitar
and see how far you go at game's end. You'll learn a ton of useless
spells -chromatic orb- that rock early on but do didly vs the foes you
face later on (yes, CO is nice if at end game you were fighting simple
goblins or something but not Irencicus) or simply have nomial effect
(Cure Light Wounds).
The effect here is far better than, say FO@, where energy weapons was
really vital to finishing the game, or at least made it scads easier,
but putting points into EW for 95% of the game was useless. At least in
KOTR you switch over to Jedi early enough to recover any mistakes you
made (I didn my first time through) into missle weapons.
James Garvin
Ug. This is spurious logic at best. The Star Wars Universe is popular
enough where most people will realize:
1) Light Sabers are better then any other weapon as it is mentioned
upteen times i nthe movies
2) The main character will be better with a Light Saber then any other
weapon due to 1
Julie d'Aubigny
Er, the character can be effective with a blaster, it's just that the
enemies-who-are-dark-jedi-or-sith can deflect blaster shots. This makes
the lightsaber a preferable choice.
It also simulates the Star Wars universe as seen on film. This makes it
the opposite of bad game design.
Julie d'Aubigny
Wouldn't you have to be raised in a cave by mute hydrocephalic babboons
to not know what a lightsaber is before you play KOTOR?
Lynley James
Mackey) wrote:
Go ahead and read the WestEnd games rule books and the Dark Horse
comics. The SW Universe uses the light sabre as the ultimate weapon
that is extremely dangerous to anyone except a Force adept user.
Lynley
Stephen Mackey
>D00d, it's Star Wars. If you can't hack lightsabers being the uberweapon,
>you shouldn't be playing Star Wars. Play D&D or something, and argue about
>katanae instead.
I have and shall continue to do so.
::grin::
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>DOGPILE THE NEWBIE!
Eep. You're giving me Boy Scouts flashbacks, man....
::twitches nervously::
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Why have pistols or SMG's in JA2? They have less range and do less
>damage than assault rifles and functionally serve do useful purpose in
>the game.
Haven't played JA2 to be able to comment on it accurately.
>Daggers have no point in BG2 (and they really don't).
Played LOTS of BG2, and the neglect of certain weapon categories is something I
truly dislike, as the residents of AGBG know. Which is why I truly enjoy a
certain mod that lets you create magic items from various neglected categories,
such as spears, daggers, and short swords.
>Every game has better and worse weapons.
Danger Will Robinson, generalization alert! :) Planescape Torment seemed to
have weapon categories that were roughly equal in power.
>The lightsabre in the SW world does more damage, look at how it burned
>through blast doors in Ep1 whereas we've seen blasters not go through
>relatively simple walls in other flicks. Now, is this real per physics?
>Who the fuck knows and/or cares? In this world the LS is the king of the
>hill and what balances the LS is that your foes will use them too.
Hm, I don't remember much about Ep1. I think my mind is trying to blank out
the pain. ;) But just because a LS has great damage doesn't mean it
necessarily has to rule the weapon hilltop. Even if a gun had worse damage
there could have been other ways of balancing it out. The distance at which
battles start could potentially give long rangers extra attacks to balance out
the lower damage, for instance. And for that matter, what's with thse shield
thingies I'm hearing about anyway? In the SW movies that I've seen, every time
someone got hit by a laser, he went straight down. No shielding stuff that
only an LS can cut through.
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Again, dump all your skill points in BG2 into dagger or club or scimitar
>and see how far you go at game's end.
I never play BG2 without the Item Upgrade Mod these days for just that reason.
:)
>You'll learn a ton of useless
>spells -chromatic orb- that rock early on but do didly vs the foes you
>face later on (yes, CO is nice if at end game you were fighting simple
>goblins or something but not Irencicus) or simply have nomial effect
>(Cure Light Wounds).
Lower level spells are weaker, but you get more of them. And they still come
in handy near the end game, if you use them right. Chromatic Orb really rocks
if you have a way of lowering the saves of your foes, and memorizing a few Cure
Light Wounds to save your higher slots for non-healing spells is generally a
good idea. And certain low level buffs like Chant, Bless, etc, are always
useful.
But in any case, spells ain't weapons. You don't spend points on them that
become useless and can't be unspent near the middle or end of the game. Either
you learn them or you don't, and at worst if you learn some useless spells all
you've lost is some gold, of which there's way too much in the BG games anyway.
>The effect here is far better than, say FO@, where energy weapons was
>really vital to finishing the game,
They were? Funny, I beat the game just fine with a sniper rifle, and also with
a boxer. Didn't have much trouble with it, either. Maybe an energy weapon
would have been easier, but the small arms and unarmed routes were certainly
viable.
>but putting points into EW for 95% of the game was useless.
That was an attempt to balance things out by rarity. It's not a mistake to put
points into EW, you just wait longer to use those points. And in the meantime
you can rely on books for SA skill and a pet savage with a spear to help you in
combat.
>At least in
>KOTR you switch over to Jedi early enough to recover any mistakes you
>made (I didn my first time through) into missle weapons.
But it shouldn't have to be a mistake, if it's an option at all. In any game.
More examples of games that do this will just get me saying I think it was a
problem with them, too. ;) Yeah, I'm a nitpicky.
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>
>Ug. This is spurious logic at best. The Star Wars Universe is popular
>enough where most people will realize:
>1) Light Sabers are better then any other weapon as it is mentioned
>upteen times i nthe movies
Quotes? I don't remember any, but it HAS been a while since I've seen the SW
flicks, after all.
And if this is so, why did they include the ranged combat feat route at all?
They should have just let you start out with a lightsaber and only allowed
non-Jedi to take the missile weapon feats, and saved a few people the pain of
trying to be "different."
--
Stephen Mackey
CCF
> Played LOTS of BG2, and the neglect of certain weapon categories is something I
> truly dislike, as the residents of AGBG know. Which is why I truly enjoy a
> certain mod that lets you create magic items from various neglected categories,
> such as spears, daggers, and short swords.
Its one thing to want magic spear and daggers, it is wholly another
issue of wanting them to be the "same" as each other. You logic would be
like saying longswords and short swords should be the same so one isn't
just better than another- and as far as that goes daggers, short swords
and long swords can all land killing blows (ask the Romans if a short
sword can kill well) but in the game longswords are clearly at the top
of the heap.
>>Every game has better and worse weapons.
>
>
> Danger Will Robinson, generalization alert! :) Planescape Torment seemed to
> have weapon categories that were roughly equal in power.
No waepaons in that game had varying dmage levels as well. Not all
weapons were the same and it wasn't like reach meant diddly in that game.
>
> Hm, I don't remember much about Ep1. I think my mind is trying to blank out
> the pain. ;)
It won't work, god knows I've tried too.
> But just because a LS has great damage doesn't mean it
> necessarily has to rule the weapon hilltop. Even if a gun had worse damage
> there could have been other ways of balancing it out. The distance at which
> battles start could potentially give long rangers extra attacks to balance out
> the lower damage, for instance.
Well a lot of the fights are indoors so not much you can do about that
range thing. In the few outside encounters ranged weapns are more useful.
>And for that matter, what's with thse shield
> thingies I'm hearing about anyway? In the SW movies that I've seen, every time
> someone got hit by a laser, he went straight down. No shielding stuff that
> only an LS can cut through.
There are different types of shields, some are melee and some are energy.
Stephen Mackey
>Er, the character can be effective with a blaster, it's just that the
>enemies-who-are-dark-jedi-or-sith can deflect blaster shots.
So he can be effective except against what sounds like the most dangerous
enemies in the game. Hmm. ;)
Oh, wait, you can be dark, right? So the blaster route would be viable if you
were fighting AGAINST the Lighters, perhaps.
In the end, I've just been going on posts here for info, not having played the
game yet. It sounded like blasters were useless compared to the LS. If
they're viable, just a bit more of a challenge, then my mind will be happily
changed. I suspect I'll have to wait until I play it for that.
>It also simulates the Star Wars universe as seen on film. This makes it
>the opposite of bad game design.
This seems uncharacteristically silly of you to say. Using the same logic, if
the Sims masturbated occasionally in the bathroom, then that would be
simulating real life as experienced by people, and thus be the opposite of bad
game design. Sometimes what you choose to leave out is just as important as
what you choose to put in.
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Wouldn't you have to be raised in a cave by mute hydrocephalic babboons
>to not know what a lightsaber is before you play KOTOR?
There's a difference between knowing what a lightsaber is and knowing that it
renders blasters pointless. I know that the LS is this lightweight beam of
energy shaped like a sword, that it glows, that it can potentially deflect the
occasional blaster shot if you're skilled with it, and that it cuts through
stuff real good. None of these things, even together, automatically = better
than every other handheld weapon in the SW universe.
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Go ahead and read the WestEnd games rule books and the Dark Horse
>comics. The SW Universe uses the light sabre as the ultimate weapon
>that is extremely dangerous to anyone except a Force adept user.
Can you point me to specific titles? I've no interest in buying SW literature,
but I might go to the library check a few tomes out for "research." ;)
--
Stephen Mackey
James Garvin
>
> They were? Funny, I beat the game just fine with a sniper rifle, and also with
> a boxer. Didn't have much trouble with it, either. Maybe an energy weapon
> would have been easier, but the small arms and unarmed routes were certainly
> viable.
Even with the Power Fist I couldn't hurt the end boss...How did you do
it?
James Garvin
But to a Jedi it does. There is no reason for a Jedi to use a blaster
because only Jedi can be truly skilled with a lightsaber and can do all
the cool tricks with the help of the Force.
Blasters don't require the same kind of skill. Anyone can pickup a
blaster and shoot it, but not everyone can use a lightsaber without
chopping off their foot.
James Garvin
Any of the rule books for SW from West End Games. Also you can read the
trilogy by Zahn for why lightsabers are the uber weapons.
Stephen Mackey
>Even with the Power Fist I couldn't hurt the end boss...How did you do
>it?
Memories are hazy, it's been a while... but I was something of a min-maxer
statwise (maxxed out Agility), and relied on getting a lot of Crits. Did you
have that perk that lets you do a crit on a successful Luck roll with every hit
you get? Slayer, I think it's called. It makes life soooo much easier as a
unarmed fighter. Oh, and I pickpocketed a fair amount of drugs to use, too,
which compensated for my less than stellar Toughness and Strength nicely.
(Even used the drugs to cheat and get some perks I couldn't otherwise.
::coughcough::) And the other npcs in my party were pretty combat-oriented,
too, so they probably helped. Didn't see much use in Vic, the scientist, or
the ghoul doc compared to Sulu and the shotgun-wieldin' bartender.
And since it IS the last battle, after all, you can use those super stim packs
all you want. Not like you're gonna worry about permanent health damage much
after the fight's over.
--
Stephen Mackey
Stephen Mackey
>Its one thing to want magic spear and daggers, it is wholly another
>issue of wanting them to be the "same" as each other.
Well, I don't want them to be completely identical. If that's what I said
earlier on, I apologize for the careless words.
I just think they should all be roughly equally viable... if that means by
having different advantages and disadvantages, then that's fine. So long as
one group doesn't overpower the rest.
>> Hm, I don't remember much about Ep1. I think my mind is trying to blank
>out
>> the pain. ;)
>
>It won't work, god knows I've tried too.
>
::snerk::
Maybe with the help of a little alcohol?
>Well a lot of the fights are indoors
But they don't HAVE to be. It's just the way the game was designed. Nothin'
wrong with a mostly outdoors game... Morrowind seemed to manage it pretty well.
>In the few outside encounters ranged weapns are more useful.
Good. :)
>There are different types of shields, some are melee and some are energy.
Ah, that's nice then. Don't recall them in the movies, but so long as they're
not just singling out blasters to protect against....
--
Stephen Mackey
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:20031129140039...@mb-m27.aol.com:
Lightsabers have an inbuilt Lucas Weenie Factor that overwhelms all other
considerations.
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Except that without extensive training he won't be.
A lightsaber isn't an iherently better weapon, it's a better weapon when
wielded by a highly trained Jedi.
The first movie showed that with Luke getting zapped by the drone.
The second showed it when he lost his hand to the better trained Vader.
What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and kill
them.
Wouldn't it make far more sense for them to snipe down the Jedi with
some heavy caliber (Like the .50 browning) from far range so he doesn't
know you're there.
Maybe having the bullet enhanced/plated so that it's going to punch
through the beam of the LS even if the Jedi tries to block it?
Or explosive projectiles that would detonate when hit by the energy of
the sword and thus stun him.
I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
LS wielding super guys.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
James Garvin
YES!
James Garvin
>
> Except that without extensive training he won't be.
> A lightsaber isn't an iherently better weapon, it's a better weapon when
> wielded by a highly trained Jedi.
> The first movie showed that with Luke getting zapped by the drone.
> The second showed it when he lost his hand to the better trained Vader.
True. But even with minimal force powers after a few minutes of
practice he was able to deflect the training blaster bolts.
> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and kill
> them.
'Cause...uh....cause...uh....Just like the storm troopers being crack
shots, but not being able to hit the broad side of a barn in a real fire
fight...
> Wouldn't it make far more sense for them to snipe down the Jedi with
> some heavy caliber (Like the .50 browning) from far range so he doesn't
> know you're there.
I would. Maybe a Gauss Rifle (ala Fallout 2).
> Maybe having the bullet enhanced/plated so that it's going to punch
> through the beam of the LS even if the Jedi tries to block it?
> Or explosive projectiles that would detonate when hit by the energy of
> the sword and thus stun him.
Maybe they did pre-Empire??? Perhaps 4000 before they didn't know about
explosives? ;-)
> I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
> jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
> LS wielding super guys.
Ya...I think the implication was they were hunted down by Darth Vader
though....
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and
> kill them.
Why do mooks in Fu movies never use sensible tactics? They are
lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of the
"hero".
> I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
> jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
> LS wielding super guys.
We also get the impression that Vader did the job personally.
James Garvin
>
> Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
> thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
>
> lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of the
> "hero".
ARRGGG...the "one at a time" rule has always bothered me. At least
Jackie Chan is trying to take it to the next level. The thing that
really bugs me is that total lack of attention to detail in action/kung
fu flicks. Underworld did some cool things, but it still left something
missing (and was only an "OK" movie as far as everything went).
> > I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
> > jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
> > LS wielding super guys.
>
> We also get the impression that Vader did the job personally.
On that note the reason nobody could find Yoda is because of the Dark
Side Tree (that Luke went into) canceled out Yoda. Also I would imagine
Yoda would be powerful enough by that point to hide himself anyway.
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll wrote:
>>
>> Except that without extensive training he won't be.
>> A lightsaber isn't an iherently better weapon, it's a better weapon when
>> wielded by a highly trained Jedi.
>> The first movie showed that with Luke getting zapped by the drone.
>> The second showed it when he lost his hand to the better trained Vader.
>
>True. But even with minimal force powers after a few minutes of
>practice he was able to deflect the training blaster bolts.
>> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
>> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and kill
>> them.
>
>'Cause...uh....cause...uh....Just like the storm troopers being crack
>shots, but not being able to hit the broad side of a barn in a real fire
>fight...
Having played Jedi Outcast, i'm surprised anyone could hit a target more
than 1 in 10 with the standard stormtrooper weapon.
The only way to guarantee hitting the side(s) of a barn are to shoot it
point blank or from inside the barn.
Frankly I used the pistol instead, it was _WAY_ more accurate.
Until about 65% or so through the game (or through as much as I got) I
didn't use the lightsaber except in those cases when nothing else would
do (like cutting the locks off doors).
Those crystal powered pseudo jedi lasted all of about 15 seconds each
using the alt-fire on the heavy imperial blaster.
It's only when they started reflecting every shot from every weapon that
I actually started using the lightsaber.
>> Wouldn't it make far more sense for them to snipe down the Jedi with
>> some heavy caliber (Like the .50 browning) from far range so he doesn't
>> know you're there.
>
>I would. Maybe a Gauss Rifle (ala Fallout 2).
That would be my thought, or some kind of plasma weapon, or just plain
old bullets. Mr jedi, meet Mr shotgun.
I'm sure there must be some kind of substance that's resistant to force
powers.
Hey, come to think of it, didn't Jedi Outcast have the baddies mining
some kind of strange mineral that was highly resistant to the energies
in a Lightsaber and have armor made of it?
>> Maybe having the bullet enhanced/plated so that it's going to punch
>> through the beam of the LS even if the Jedi tries to block it?
>> Or explosive projectiles that would detonate when hit by the energy of
>> the sword and thus stun him.
>
>Maybe they did pre-Empire??? Perhaps 4000 before they didn't know about
>explosives? ;-)
But they have those thermal detonators.
>> I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
>> jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
>> LS wielding super guys.
>
>Ya...I think the implication was they were hunted down by Darth Vader
>though....
I have trouble imagining Darth Vader single handedly hunting down
several thousand jedi.
That requires a suspension of disbelief level equivalent to believing
Rosie O'Donnel could wear Calista Flockhart's clothing, (without
alterations or use of industrial strength lycra).
James Garvin
>
> >Maybe they did pre-Empire??? Perhaps 4000 before they didn't know about
> >explosives? ;-)
>
> But they have those thermal detonators.
That have an explosive radius of about 2'...meh. I'll take a pineapple
grenade over a therma det!
> I have trouble imagining Darth Vader single handedly hunting down
> several thousand jedi.
> That requires a suspension of disbelief level equivalent to believing
> Rosie O'Donnel could wear Calista Flockhart's clothing, (without
> alterations or use of industrial strength lycra).
From the scuttle butt: The Jedi were killed in some sort of terrorist
attack going from point A to point B. Their ship exploded and most of
them died that way...The few that were left died at the hands of Vader
(save for a few that could escape his grasp).
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:qmtisvsetldgnao1k...@4ax.com:
> I have trouble imagining Darth Vader single handedly hunting down
> several thousand jedi.
> That requires a suspension of disbelief level equivalent to believing
> Rosie O'Donnel could wear Calista Flockhart's clothing, (without
> alterations or use of industrial strength lycra).
You forget the Lucas Weenie Factor.
Christopher Tong
> Because I don't see any proof in the SW universe that causes the light sabre to
> be as load-blowingly good as all that. Sure, it can cut through stuff good.
> And if you're good with it you can use it to deflect blaster bolts. So? I can
> think of plenty of REAL WORLD weapons that would kick the light saber's ass,
> let alone scientifically impossible weaponry from a sci-fi universe. The only
> reason a blaster doesn't work good against a light saber in the game is because
> the game designers made it so. In the movies any immunity to blastboltdom was
> due to the skill of the character (AKA, his or her importance to the Plot), not
> the weapon involved.
Wasn't the range weapon damage in KotOR greatly reduced because of the
one-hit kill factor that would affect your average low-low level
character? Also, remember that the game involves Jedi and Jedi usually
use lightsabres... hey it's Star Wars and if you want to go ranged, you
might as well zap them with hurricane or lightning. Not like you can
hang on to ordinary weapons if you're fighting Jedi... they should be
able to just yank it right out of your hands.
Although I do wonder what happened to those beautifully effective
Stauker B Concussion Rifles from Jedi Knight and Dark Forces...
Chris
Hong Ooi
<cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote:
>You forget the Lucas WANGER Factor.
Hmmm.
--
Hong Ooi | "Does *anyone* at WOTC bother to
ho...@zipworld.com.au | _think_ when making housecat stats?"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- MSB
Sydney, Australia |
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Having played Jedi Outcast, i'm surprised anyone could hit a target more
>than 1 in 10 with the standard stormtrooper weapon.
>The only way to guarantee hitting the side(s) of a barn are to shoot it
>point blank or from inside the barn.
There was a point in Outcast (I think) where you can sneak up on 2
Stormtroopers (I think it's the level when you board a spaceship in
flight). If you refrain from killing them, and they don't notice you,
you overhear them talking. They something like -
ST 1 - "I hear we're getting a new shipment of rifles in soon - the
new Mark 2's"
ST 2 - "I can't wait - I can't hit a thing with these..."
--
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:fpcjsvcrustaoh7n2...@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 06:16:20 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> <cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote:
>
>>You forget the Lucas WANGER Factor.
>
>
> Hmmm.
>
>
It's only a Wanger if your monitor is 21 inches or more.
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll wrote:
>>
>> >Maybe they did pre-Empire??? Perhaps 4000 before they didn't know about
>> >explosives? ;-)
>>
>> But they have those thermal detonators.
>
>That have an explosive radius of about 2'...meh. I'll take a pineapple
>grenade over a therma det!
That wasn't my impression when they were being thrown at me in outcast.
Still, it shows that they do know explosives and could make bigger ones
if they chose.
>> I have trouble imagining Darth Vader single handedly hunting down
>> several thousand jedi.
>> That requires a suspension of disbelief level equivalent to believing
>> Rosie O'Donnel could wear Calista Flockhart's clothing, (without
>> alterations or use of industrial strength lycra).
>
>From the scuttle butt: The Jedi were killed in some sort of terrorist
>attack going from point A to point B. Their ship exploded and most of
>them died that way...The few that were left died at the hands of Vader
>(save for a few that could escape his grasp).
Now that makes a lot more sense, though it fairly boggles the mind how
you'd get most of the galaxy's "police force" on one ship at once.
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
My suspension of disbelief doesn't have a Lucas Weenie Factor setting.
Star Wars is just a nice set of 3 films to me, nothing more.
Xocyll
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 00:03:44 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Having played Jedi Outcast, i'm surprised anyone could hit a target more
>>than 1 in 10 with the standard stormtrooper weapon.
>>The only way to guarantee hitting the side(s) of a barn are to shoot it
>>point blank or from inside the barn.
>
>There was a point in Outcast (I think) where you can sneak up on 2
>Stormtroopers (I think it's the level when you board a spaceship in
>flight). If you refrain from killing them, and they don't notice you,
>you overhear them talking. They something like -
>
>ST 1 - "I hear we're getting a new shipment of rifles in soon - the
>new Mark 2's"
>
>ST 2 - "I can't wait - I can't hit a thing with these..."
Heh, well someone's got a sense of humour.
I don't think I heard that, but I tended to be a bit more "pro-active"
when it came to dealing with Empire troops.
Slow, steady, sniping, is my preferred path through most FPS type games
Xocyll
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
>thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
>
>> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
>> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and
>> kill them.
>
>Why do mooks in Fu movies never use sensible tactics? They are
>lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of the
>"hero".
Well in the martial arts type movies it's all about the "honorable way",
the warriors way.
Warriors fight one on one, since it's the "honorable" thing to do and a
test of their skill vs the enemy's skill.
Personally, I just love how Harrison Ford neatly skewered that in
Raiders of the lost Ark.
Swish, swish, swish goes the sword in the enemy warrior's hand; Bang
goes the gun in HF's hand - fight over.
That strange sense of honor also appears in the mechwarrior universe as
part of the clan honor system.
One on one fights unless someone engages two enemies, then it's a
freeforall.
It's the warrior vs soldier thing.
Warriors fight to test themselves, soldiers fight to achieve an
objective.
One warrior vs one soldier, the warrior likely wins, since he's far more
skillful.
A group of warriors vs a group of soldiers, the soldiers likely win,
since they work together and the warriors don't.
>> I'll just note here that the original movie does mention that all the
>> jedi were hunted down and killed, even though they were highly trained
>> LS wielding super guys.
>
>We also get the impression that Vader did the job personally.
I have trouble envisioning Darth personally hunting down thousands of
Jedi.
Darin Johnson
> Swish, swish, swish goes the sword in the enemy warrior's hand; Bang
> goes the gun in HF's hand - fight over.
As I heard it, the reason this happened is because Harrison Ford got
tired of all the reshooting of the scene and just shot the gun as a
joke.
--
Darin Johnson
Where am I? In the village... What do you want? Information...
Bertil Jonell
Jonah Falcon <jonah...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>"Law" <la...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3FC42D3E...@yahoo.com...
>> just a beginner question
>>
>> is there any reason to favour melee weapons over range weapons ?
>
>Yeah, you're going to be weilding a lightsaber most of the time later in the
>game. Let your non-Jedi companions have range abilities.
But remember that specializing in melee weapons (the +1 to hit, +2 to damage
feats) doesn't give you any bonus with lightsabers. The latter use their own
three feats (one to use, second to get +1 to hit, third to get +2 to damage).
-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
exercise for your kill-file."
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:1q7nsvooq4tf4jdjq...@4ax.com:
> "Bryan J. Maloney" <cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> looked up from
> reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
> the signs say:
>
>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
>>thusnews:qmtisvsetldgnao1k...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> I have trouble imagining Darth Vader single handedly hunting down
>>> several thousand jedi.
>>> That requires a suspension of disbelief level equivalent to believing
>>> Rosie O'Donnel could wear Calista Flockhart's clothing, (without
>>> alterations or use of industrial strength lycra).
>>
>>You forget the Lucas Weenie Factor.
>
> My suspension of disbelief doesn't have a Lucas Weenie Factor setting.
> Star Wars is just a nice set of 3 films to me, nothing more.
In that case, you shouldn't be dealing with any of the computer games,
which all have extra Lucase Weenie Factor--or are you some sort of
delusional idiot?
Michael Wyatt
> Stephen Mackey wrote:
> > There's nothing wrong with a weapon being cool. But when you have it
> > mechanically better than other weapons simply BECAUSE it is cool, and have
> > feats devoted to those other weapons that players will never use because the
> > cool weapon is better, then you might as well have not put in those inferior
> > weapons and feats to start with, for all the good they do. It's like crossbows
> > in Baldur's Gate... no one uses them when they can use a bow instead because
> > bows are just better, so there's no point in having crossbows in the game in
> > the first place. It's a waste.
>
> Why have pistols or SMG's in JA2? They have less range and do less
> damage than assault rifles and functionally serve do useful purpose in
> the game.
I had to jump in here, not to derail the thread but just because JA2
is one of my favorite games.
Pistols and SMGs played a crucial role in JA2 and were useful
throughout the game, depending on the skills of your main character
and your playstyle.
For instance, trying to be a stealthy infiltrator with an assault
rifle that alerted every enemy on the map every time it fires is an
approach doomed to failure, where being able to sneak up, pop round a
corner and level some poor trooper with a burst of silenced SMG fire
to the head worked considerably better 8)
CCF
> For instance, trying to be a stealthy infiltrator with an assault
> rifle that alerted every enemy on the map every time it fires is an
> approach doomed to failure, where being able to sneak up, pop round a
> corner and level some poor trooper with a burst of silenced SMG fire
> to the head worked considerably better 8)
Execpt that it took 20 bullets to the head to kill guys and forget
killing anything with a silenced pistol. My biggest frustration and why
I dumped all my silnced weapons- no one shot kills when you surprise
guys. Frankly, in the dark, I'd rather have them all come running to me
than having to ferett them out.
James Garvin
>
> Personally, I just love how Harrison Ford neatly skewered that in
> Raiders of the lost Ark.
He did that 'cause he had the runs and had to end the fight scene fast
;-)
Hong Ooi
<cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> wrote:
>
>In that WANGER, you shouldn't be WANGERING with any of the WANGER games,
>which all WANGER extra WANGER WANGER WANGER--or are you some sort of
>WANGERIAL WANGER?
Hong "21-inch WANGER" Ooi
Hong Ooi
>"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> looked up from
>reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
>the signs say:
>
>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
>>thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
>>> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and
>>> kill them.
>>
>>Why do mooks in Fu movies never use sensible tactics? They are
>>lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of the
>>"hero".
>
>Well in the martial arts type movies it's all about the "honorable way",
>the warriors way.
Don't worry, Bryan "PQQTRZEBIE" Malony is just obsessing over Lucas' WANGER
again.
Bryan J. Maloney
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:20:51 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
> wrote:
>
>>"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> looked up from
>>reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is
>>good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
>>>thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
>>>> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and
>>>> kill them.
>>>
>>>Why do mooks in Fu movies never use sensible tactics? They are
>>>lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of
>>>the "hero".
>>
>>Well in the martial arts type movies it's all about the "honorable
>>way", the warriors way.
>
> Don't worry, Bryan "PQQTRZEBIE" Malony is just obsessing over Lucas'
> WANGER again.
>
>
Why do you stalk me? I'm not interested, and you can probably find
several boyfriends where you live.
Xocyll
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>
>> Swish, swish, swish goes the sword in the enemy warrior's hand; Bang
>> goes the gun in HF's hand - fight over.
>
>As I heard it, the reason this happened is because Harrison Ford got
>tired of all the reshooting of the scene and just shot the gun as a
>joke.
What i'd heard was he was sick with the flu or something similar.
Aches, pains, fever, nausea, etc and could barely see the other guy,
much less do the scripted "whip the sword out of his hand" move and just
drew and shot instead.
Luckily the director/producer were smart enough to use it.
Hong Ooi
I'm not stalking you. I'm WANGERING you. There's a difference.
>I'm not WANGERED, and you can probably WANGER several WANGERS where you live.
See?
--
Hong Ooi | "Why do you stalk me?"
ho...@zipworld.com.au | -- BJM
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ |
Sydney, Australia |
Andreas Baus
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:48:22 +0800, Law <la...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>but i haven't play that far yet, so for non Jedi character why not all use gun .
> Energy shields.
Disruptors. Ion blasters/grenades.
Besides, energy shields can ruin a Jedi's day, too, since lightsabers do
energy damage...
>>on the other hand why not get a gun wielding Jedi ? ( i know it sound silly)
> Blaster rifle 1-8 damage and needing lots of energy shields.
> Mid game lightsabre 6-26 damage and the ability to pretty much
> ignore blaster fire.
> Late game: Your opponents will be cutting you to ribbons with
> lightsabres. :)
Get the Baragwin heavy repeater from Yavin. Fully decked out, that thing
*hurts*. Big time. Let me check my notes... 3-22 energy + 4-24 thermal
--
----
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[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
Andreas Baus
> Now that makes a lot more sense, though it fairly boggles the mind how
> you'd get most of the galaxy's "police force" on one ship at once.
/me fights to suppress the urge to give the "throw in a donut" answer
oops, guess I lost :)
Andreas Baus
> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>There was a point in Outcast (I think) where you can sneak up on 2
>>Stormtroopers (I think it's the level when you board a spaceship in
>>flight). If you refrain from killing them, and they don't notice you,
>>you overhear them talking. They something like -
>>
>>ST 1 - "I hear we're getting a new shipment of rifles in soon - the
>>new Mark 2's"
>>
>>ST 2 - "I can't wait - I can't hit a thing with these..."
> Heh, well someone's got a sense of humour.
> I don't think I heard that, but I tended to be a bit more "pro-active"
> when it came to dealing with Empire troops.
> Slow, steady, sniping, is my preferred path through most FPS type games
Ever since NOLF (which was one of the first games to have frequent, often
humorous conversations between idle opponents) I like to try to sneak up and
overhear what they are saying, for the humor value - at least on the first
time through...
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> Now that makes a lot more sense, though it fairly boggles the mind how
>> you'd get most of the galaxy's "police force" on one ship at once.
>
>/me fights to suppress the urge to give the "throw in a donut" answer
>
>oops, guess I lost :)
/me ponders the possibility that the creation of the lightsaber had
something to do with making the holes in donuts.
Xocyll
A game is a game.
It gets treated on it's own merits, not seen through some kind of
special fanboy filter. (Having jedi, being Star Wars or Star Trek or
whatever doesn't get a game bonus points or get it forgiven bad design
[like Jedi Outcast - comm level].)
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> Mark Morrison <drdp...@aol.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>>There was a point in Outcast (I think) where you can sneak up on 2
>>>Stormtroopers (I think it's the level when you board a spaceship in
>>>flight). If you refrain from killing them, and they don't notice you,
>>>you overhear them talking. They something like -
>>>
>>>ST 1 - "I hear we're getting a new shipment of rifles in soon - the
>>>new Mark 2's"
>>>
>>>ST 2 - "I can't wait - I can't hit a thing with these..."
>
>> Heh, well someone's got a sense of humour.
>
>> I don't think I heard that, but I tended to be a bit more "pro-active"
>> when it came to dealing with Empire troops.
>> Slow, steady, sniping, is my preferred path through most FPS type games
>
>Ever since NOLF (which was one of the first games to have frequent, often
>humorous conversations between idle opponents) I like to try to sneak up and
>overhear what they are saying, for the humor value - at least on the first
>time through...
I used to do that, but so often the enemies just magically know i'm
there or extra enemies just appear from nowhere.
It got frustrating enough that I just said to hell with it and shoot
from range in any game that has accurate long range weapons.
Nothing tops the time I shot 3 guys with one bullet in Red Faction
though. :) A max vision range shot at one and took down two others down
the tunnel behind him. .50 caliber is nasty that way.
Xocyll
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:20:51 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>
>>"Bryan J. Maloney" <cavag...@sbcglobal.nmungemungt> looked up from
>>reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
>>the signs say:
>>
>>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> nattered on
>>>thusnews:d75isvsofnjlnen4g...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> What I really don't get is that when you have Jedi able to deflect
>>>> energy bolts, the bad guys still use energy bolt weapons to try and
>>>> kill them.
>>>
>>>Why do mooks in Fu movies never use sensible tactics? They are
>>>lebensunwertes Leben, who only exist to die for the greater glory of the
>>>"hero".
>>
>>Well in the martial arts type movies it's all about the "honorable way",
>>the warriors way.
>
>Don't worry, Bryan "PQQTRZEBIE" Malony is just obsessing over Lucas' WANGER
>again.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Gabe and Tycho have taken control of
your brain.
Hermann Hesse
> meat world has no impact on that universe and the same goes for other
> sci fi univeres.
Except that the Star Wars Universe (tm) is _our_ universe, just a long time
ago, in a galaxy far, far away, so the same physical laws should apply. And
the same goes for other sci fi universes. ;)
// Hermann
Courageous
>> First of all we are talking about "The Star Wars Universe" (tm). The
>> meat world has no impact on that universe and the same goes for other
>> sci fi univeres.
>
>Except that the Star Wars Universe (tm) is _our_ universe, just a long time
>ago, in a galaxy far, far away, so the same physical laws should apply.
Fallacy of Unwarranted Assumptions. Who's to say that the physical laws
of the universe remain the same from Galaxy to Galaxy? What? Your sample
size so far: 1. Slow down, Cowboy, that's a big extrapolation.
C//
Hong Ooi
>Hong Ooi <ho...@zipworld.com.au> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Don't worry, Bryan "PQQTRZEBIE" Malony is just obsessing over Lucas' WANGER
>>again.
>
>Sometimes I get the feeling that Gabe and Tycho have taken control of
>your brain.
It's heavy metal poisoning from my TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS.
Hong "with extra bass" Ooi
Courageous
>It's heavy metal poisoning from my TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS.
I bet your testicles are the size of soft balls.
C//
Hermann Hesse
> of the universe remain the same from Galaxy to Galaxy? What?
You just did. "Physical laws of the universe". Universe > Galaxy.
> Your sample size so far: 1. Slow down, Cowboy, that's a big extrapolation.
The fallacies of presumtion do not apply, since physical laws are not built
from observations. They are defined, and _then_ verified by empirical
observations (which, admittedly, is not much of a verification). But if they
are wrong, they are wrong everywhere and everywhen, as part of their
definition.
My sample size of existing individuals, as per thinking -> existing, is 1.
Now go away, you sinister figment of my imagination.
// Hermann
Andreas Baus
> Elizabeth D. Brooks said:
>>Er, the character can be effective with a blaster, it's just that the
>>enemies-who-are-dark-jedi-or-sith can deflect blaster shots.
> So he can be effective except against what sounds like the most dangerous
> enemies in the game. Hmm. ;)
The Protagonist is a Jedi (or becomes one at a certain point, at least).
Jedi can learn force powers that allow them to paralyze opponents. And
paralyzed opponents can't deflect blaster shots, lightsaber or not...
Though that won't help much against the final boss who, while (thankfully)
not totally immune, is still highly resistant to offensive force powers,
and is very good with a lightsaber...
> Oh, wait, you can be dark, right? So the blaster route would be viable if you
> were fighting AGAINST the Lighters, perhaps.
Deflecting blaster shots is not an ability reserved for the dark side...
Andreas Baus
> Also you can read the trilogy by Zahn for why lightsabers are the uber
> weapons.
I read those (though I can't say I really enjoyed them) but I can't
remember anything specific that would support that... care to elaborate?
Julie d'Aubigny
>
> Elizabeth D. Brooks said:
>
> >Er, the character can be effective with a blaster, it's just that the
> >enemies-who-are-dark-jedi-or-sith can deflect blaster shots.
>
> So he can be effective except against what sounds like the most dangerous
> enemies in the game. Hmm. ;)
Well, yes. As Andreas points out, you do have options (Force Push tree,
Force Stun tree, etc) that make it easier to live with it.
There are also some good dark side powers that will also help.
> Oh, wait, you can be dark, right? So the blaster route would be viable if you
> were fighting AGAINST the Lighters, perhaps.
Well, dark or light you're still going to fight evil sith guys.
> In the end, I've just been going on posts here for info, not having played the
> game yet. It sounded like blasters were useless compared to the LS. If
> they're viable, just a bit more of a challenge, then my mind will be happily
> changed. I suspect I'll have to wait until I play it for that.
I believe that would be the case. You really need to build up your force
powers to support it.
> >It also simulates the Star Wars universe as seen on film. This makes it
> >the opposite of bad game design.
>
> This seems uncharacteristically silly of you to say. Using the same logic, if
> the Sims masturbated occasionally in the bathroom, then that would be
> simulating real life as experienced by people, and thus be the opposite of bad
> game design. Sometimes what you choose to leave out is just as important as
> what you choose to put in.
This analogy is so false it makes the Baby Jesus cry.
--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.ma...@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
Bryan J. Maloney
thusnews:cTCzb.36623$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net:
>> Fallacy of Unwarranted Assumptions. Who's to say that the physical
>> laws of the universe remain the same from Galaxy to Galaxy? What?
>
> You just did. "Physical laws of the universe". Universe > Galaxy.
Demonstrate that a given instantiation of these "physical laws" is
immutable and not a mean value.
Hermann Hesse
> immutable and not a mean value.
Surely you're not asking me to prove a negative, are you? =)
// Hermann
Courageous
>> Fallacy of Unwarranted Assumptions. Who's to say that the physical laws
>> of the universe remain the same from Galaxy to Galaxy? What?
>
>You just did. "Physical laws of the universe". Universe > Galaxy.
Fallacy of Decomposition.
>> Your sample size so far: 1. Slow down, Cowboy, that's a big extrapolation.
>
>The fallacies of presumtion do not apply, since physical laws are not built
>from observations. They are defined, and _then_ verified by empirical
>observations...
They are constructed from observations that, if are noted to differ
under different context, cause the theory to be revised.
While Sir Occam's razor may suggest that it is simple and unneedful
to currently construct a theory that would have the physical laws of
the universe varying by locale, we have insufficient observational
evidence of other locales to rule this out.
C//