BG, NWN, IWD - buying advice sought
Dot Net Developer
Baldur's Gate (4 games in 1) package
Neverwinter Nights (incl 2 expansions) package
Icewind Dale (incl 1 expansion and IWD 2)
or
Forgotten Realms (10 in 1) package.
The 10 in 1 package offers the best cost deal, but would the first
three individual packages offer anything extra/better?
(Please note I'm in the UK and its possible that North American
packages may differ in either availability or content.)
Thanks a lot, regards, Robert.
magnate
wrote:
My guess is that they will contain identical material, so you should
go for the better value option. Anything missing (e.g. the collector's
edition store owners in BG2, the Trials of the Luremaster add-on to
IWD1-HoW) can be downloaded.
The one possible variable is the presence or absence of the three NWN
"premium" modules (Witches' Wake, Kingmaker and the other one). It's
likely that neither option includes them, but if one does then that's
a bit more content.
I'm also in the UK and have all these so happy to check for you once
you get them.
CC
P.S. Please tell me you're not really a Dot Net Developer - that's
some kind of ironic handle, right?
Dot Net Developer
Hi, your reply was very useful as I didn't know anything about the BG2
& IWD1 downloadable content, or the NWN modules and I suspect you are
right - neither "option" above contains them. I'll have to hunt about
for them seperately. Incidentally, do you have to pay for the
downloadable content? (I surprises me I guess that they haven't been
included on a re-released package.)
Re the "dot net" thing - I was a .Net coder, but not any more - must
change my google groups ID I guess! (I gave up programming, not I got
tired of .Net - TBH, I'm not interested in the pros and cons of any
language.)
Thanks, regards, Robert.
NFLed
very best games ever and BG1 is very good. Neverwinter Nights with
the expansions is a good game. Icewind Dale 1 is decent (though not
nearly as good as BG1) and Icewind Dale 2 is mediocre. All are worth
having but the Baldur's Gate package is by far the best in my view.
Dot Net Developer
Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've compiled a list of all the RPGs I
want to buy -
Planescape Torment
Fallout 1 & 2
Diablo 1 & 2
Might & magic 6
Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
Space Rangers 2
Divine Divinity
Temple of elemental evil
Bard's Tale
Siege of Avalon
Titan Quest
Spellforce 1 & 2
What do you reckon?
Please note - I already have well known "1st person" RPGs like
Oblivion, etc.
Mark P. Nelson
news:1193154359.4...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> On 23 Oct, 16:17, NFLed <NF...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I strongly recommend the Baldur's Gate package as BG2 is one of the
>> very best games ever and BG1 is very good. Neverwinter Nights with
>> the expansions is a good game. Icewind Dale 1 is decent (though not
>> nearly as good as BG1) and Icewind Dale 2 is mediocre. All are worth
>> having but the Baldur's Gate package is by far the best in my view.
>
> Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've compiled a list of all the RPGs I
> want to buy -
>
I agree the BG package will give you most fun, though the NWN games are a
bit prettier and almost as good. IWD 1 is a good game if you have a good
imagination and make up all the inter-party by-play in your head as you
go, as that is sadly missing. IWD 2 is not quite so good.
> Planescape Torment
> Fallout 1 & 2
Excellent.
> Diablo 1 & 2
Not strictly RPGs for a purist, but really great games. Do get the
Hellfire expansion for Diablo and Lord of Destruction for D2. More fun
online (if you avoid the cheats) than single player, I think.
> Might & magic 6
> Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
> Space Rangers 2
I never actually finished either Dungeon Siege--got bored after a couple
of days each time. Lots of hack'n'slash, not much real role playing or
character devel0pment.
> Divine Divinity
A fun game, if you don't mind its using copy protection disk drivers it
inserts into your system.
> Temple of elemental evil
A really great game, if you use the Cricle of Eight bug fix patches.
Unfortunately even they have not been able to fix the bugged mousing
annoyances towards the end of the game, which stopped me in my tracks
both times I played.
> Bard's Tale
> Siege of Avalon
> Titan Quest
A good game, but just a Diablo clone, really, so if you've got one, why
bother?
> Spellforce 1 & 2
>
> What do you reckon?
>
That's what I reckon.
Mark.
--
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short
of deliberate.--V.
Wolfing
wrote:
I think you're missing one of the best ones... Wizardry 8 (not sure if
it's easy to find or not)
Mike S.
<dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Planescape Torment
Heavy on story. It sometimes feels more like a graphic adventure then
an RPG. With that said, it is a great game.
>Fallout 1 & 2
Great RPGs. Nice change from elves and dwarves. :)
>Diablo 1 & 2
I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
>Might & magic 6
This game is a lot of fun until you get near the end when all the
fighting gets tedious.
>Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
Forget the first game. It is a boring game engine game. That is to
say, there is no actual content. The game was just a showcase for the
engine which was impressive back then. Not to mention that leveling in
that game was so freaking boring. The sequel, however, is a much
better game. You'll probably finish the game once then put it away for
good. About 50+ hours or so with the expansion. But Titan Quest, also
on your list, is far better then Dungeon Siege II.
>Space Rangers 2
I never played this game but I do know it combines aspects from many
genres. I also remember that someone over at PCGamer gave it a very
good review score.
>Divine Divinity
I never played this one but I think the general consensus around here
is that it is a good game. Just stay away from the sequel as it wasn't
anywhere near as good if I remember correctly.
>Temple of elemental evil
Didn't play this one either but I do know you'll want the fan made
patch if you get this one as I think it is pretty buggy without it.
>Bard's Tale
I would not bother with this one. I don't recall the reviews being
very kind to it. And it isn't anything like the old Bard's Tale games
if the reviews I read were correct.
>Siege of Avalon
I only heard the name, I really no nothing about this one.
>Titan Quest
Great game. If you like Diablo games, you definitely need to get this!
Get this over Dungeon Siege 2.
>Spellforce 1 & 2
No opinion here, sorry.
>What do you reckon?
I reckon that you will be happy with most of the games on your list as
long as you like that style of RPG. Don't get Planescape Torment if
you don't want to read too much. Don't get Dungeon Siege II or Titan
Quest if you don't like action RPGs..etc.
The two best games in your two posts are BG2 and Titan Quest. But I
know others here will pick Fallout and Planescape Torment instead so I
suggest picking amongst those four.
Mike S.
<dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Which should I buy? Either these 3:
>
>Baldur's Gate (4 games in 1) package
>Neverwinter Nights (incl 2 expansions) package
>Icewind Dale (incl 1 expansion and IWD 2)
Baldur's Gate II is One Of The Greatest RPGs Of All Time.(tm) If you
get Baldur's Gate, type 'EasyTutu' in google to get a mod that will
let you play the first BG with the BG II engine.
NWN will give you more bang for the buck *IF* you take advantage of
all the user made scenarios that are out there.
As for Icewind Dale, I would not bother with it. Unless after playing
BG, you just can't get enough of the infinity engine combat engine.
But I am guessing that after playing both BG and BG II, you will have
had enough of it. :)
I can't help you with the Forgotten Realms Package, sorry.
Marcel Beaudoin
news:h6bsh3prbr871eri9...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:45:59 -0700, Dot Net Developer
> <dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>Bard's Tale
>
> I would not bother with this one. I don't recall the reviews being
> very kind to it. And it isn't anything like the old Bard's Tale games
> if the reviews I read were correct.
If you can find the old ones, they are, IMO, one of the better purely
dungeon crawl games out there.
--
Marcel
Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Mike S. <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:48:59 -0700, Dot Net Developer
><dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Which should I buy? Either these 3:
>>
>>Baldur's Gate (4 games in 1) package
>>Neverwinter Nights (incl 2 expansions) package
>>Icewind Dale (incl 1 expansion and IWD 2)
>
I can! I bought this from an online retailer (for too much money) but I
feel like it was worth it in the long run. Being able to have all those
games together in one place is convenient. However, I noticed that many of
the stand alone packages include little bonuses not strictly related to
gameplay, like the music CD in the Icewind Dale package or the nice bonus
character art for Baldur's Gate 2.
Also, it's important to note that the FR pack has some of the earlier
titles on DVD, which isn't a problem for most PC owners but will cramp
your style if you're trying to install on an older piece of hardware. It's
also worth mentioning that many of the discs will be in paper envelopes
stuck in the DVD cases where the manual would ordinarily go, in case it's
important to you for every disk to have spindle support.
Hope that helps you out. Now when you figure out how to make time for all
those games, post here again and let us know how you did it. :)
-KKC, who has no spare time for all the games he wants to play.
--
-- kendrick - Buy All Pro Football 2K8 from one of these online vendors
- @ io.com - http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7394101 -
- - http://www.gamequestdirect.com/710425391590.html -
- - http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5187946 -
noman
<dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi, your reply was very useful as I didn't know anything about the BG2
>& IWD1 downloadable content, or the NWN modules and I suspect you are
>right - neither "option" above contains them. I'll have to hunt about
>for them seperately. Incidentally, do you have to pay for the
>downloadable content? (I surprises me I guess that they haven't been
>included on a re-released package.)
The NWN premium modules are part of NWN:Diamond Pack. Initially they
were available for $5-10 online as individual modules. May be they are
still sold that way.
IWD: Trials of the Luremaster was an add-on to the IWD:Heart of Winter
expansion pack. It is a free download. Black Isle released the module
for free to appease the fans who complained that HoW expansion pack
could be breezed through in few hours.
The BG2 additions were nothing special. They were part of collector
editions and comprised of few item-sellers (or existing traders
selling few better items) You should be able to find it online.
My recommendation is that you should go with Forgotten Realms package.
It's an absolutely amazing value for money.
--
Noman
Greg Johnson
<dotnetd...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've compiled a list of all the RPGs I
>want to buy -
>
>Planescape Torment
>Fallout 1 & 2
>Diablo 1 & 2
>Might & magic 6
>Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
>Space Rangers 2
>Divine Divinity
>Temple of elemental evil
>Bard's Tale
>Siege of Avalon
>Titan Quest
>Spellforce 1 & 2
>
>What do you reckon?
Mostly good RPGs, with a few I'm unfamiliar with. If Knights of the
Old Republic isn't one of the games you already have, you should add
it to your list. Also look at Anachronox - I'm not sure if it's the
sort of game you;re looking for, but it's very good.
Nostromo
>> Fallout 1 & 2
>
> Great RPGs. Nice change from elves and dwarves. :)
>
>> Diablo 1 & 2
If he can run DS1/2 & TQ (as per below), then he probably doesn't want
to miss VTMB, if elves & dwarves aren't a prerequisite.
> I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
> RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
Ditto. Go back to 1.09d to play solo offline.
>> Might & magic 6
>
> This game is a lot of fun until you get near the end when all the
> fighting gets tedious.
Took me about 10 hrs to get there :)
<snip>
> I reckon that you will be happy with most of the games on your list as
> long as you like that style of RPG. Don't get Planescape Torment if
> you don't want to read too much. Don't get Dungeon Siege II or Titan
> Quest if you don't like action RPGs..etc.
>
> The two best games in your two posts are BG2 and Titan Quest. But I
> know others here will pick Fallout and Planescape Torment instead so I
> suggest picking amongst those four.
Other (semi)rpgs off the top of my head not mentioned:
- Star Wolves
- Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
- Alien Shooter Vengeance (well, it's a space marine/alien version of
Diablo, just with heaps more gibs! :)
- Arx Fatalis
- anything from indy dev Spiderweb Software (Avernum/Geneforge series)
- Depths of Peril (recent indy title - looks ok - try the demo)
- Kotor
- Jagged Alliance series (more squad TB strat, but with RP elements)
- Gothic 3 (3rd person really - more recent, but didn't see it
mentioned, same with Two Worlds - loved them both)
- Jade Empire (Bioware oriental style console port - not my cuppa)
- Sacred, Fable & Silverfall (not 3 of my favourites either, but some
folk didn't mind them)
- Summoner (*great* circa 2001 console-port-to-pc crpg)
--
Nostromo
MJB
"Nostromo" <nost...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:ffmbt2$vfu$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
> Other (semi)rpgs off the top of my head not mentioned:
>
Or the one I'm currently playing and enjoying quite a lot : Arcanum.
--
MJB
Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
Warewolf
news:1193154359.4...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> On 23 Oct, 16:17, NFLed <NF...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I strongly recommend the Baldur's Gate package as BG2 is one of the
>> very best games ever and BG1 is very good. Neverwinter Nights with
>> the expansions is a good game. Icewind Dale 1 is decent (though not
>> nearly as good as BG1) and Icewind Dale 2 is mediocre. All are worth
>> having but the Baldur's Gate package is by far the best in my view.
>
> Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've compiled a list of all the RPGs I
> want to buy -
>
> Planescape Torment
My first 'new school' RPG and one of the few that I actually enjoyed. 9_9
If you want to actually role-play and don't mind some some heady reading
then, by every possible means, get it.
If you happen to get the original 4 CD version, though, you may need to
patch it to 1.1 and install some 'bug fixes' from this site:
http://www.planescape-torment.org/
Still, it's well worth the 'trouble'. ^_^
> Fallout 1 & 2
It may take a little effort to get these working on a modern computer (ie
Fallout 1 will likely need to be copied from the CD to your hard drive
and patched) but, if you don't mind turn-based combat, you may enjoy it.
> Diablo 1 & 2
There is actually a 'Battle Chest' collection for this series but the
copy of Diablo it contains has been patched to 1.08 so it may not work
with the mods that are available online (if you're into that sort of
thing). ^_^;
If you're able to find a separate boxed edition of Diablo, get Hellfire
as well. It has some clever extras.
> Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
There are deluxe editions of these games available that include the
expansions but I found them to be rather shallow after a while. Still,
if you are able to enjoy Diablo (and it's semi-sequel, Darkstone, for
that matter), perhaps you'll enjoy them as well.
> Space Rangers 2
This game received rave reviews but you may want to be careful - some
retail versions of this game contain a tempermental (and, dare I say,
controversial) copy protection method called StarForce. If you haven't
had problems with this program in the past, then the choice is
yours...but there is also a DRM free version available online at a site
called Totalgaming.net (setup by Stardock, the creators of Galactic
Civilizations 2, of all businesses).
> Divine Divinity
I tried this game but couldn't get into it - the first town felt stiff
and unforgiving for some reason (hint: if a shopkeeper asks you to pick
up a particular plant from a neighbor, do NOT try to take a closer look
at his plant. The game will label it as stealing and he'll toss you out
on your rear) Still, if you're looking for a more advanced point-and-
click game, you might enjoy it. *shrug*
> Bard's Tale
Although some earlier copies came with the first three Bard's Tale
titles, this game has nothing to do with them - it's more of a top-down
action-adventure game (and not a very engaging one at that). Still, if
your dual-analog game pad has been feeling neglected, this game may
provide it with some 'exercise'.
> Siege of Avalon
I haven't played this game but some reviews labelled it as 'a poor man's
diablo'. If you don't mind switching manually between the combat and
interaction modes, you may find it tolerable (if not completely
entertaining).
> Titan Quest
As Mark Nelson mentioned, this is a clone of the Diablo series with a few
extra bells and whistles. If you get this game, it might pay get the
expansion, 'Immortal Throne', as well since it adds an extra area, some
new skill sets and some interface improvements as well. (ie a larger
inventory for your character and the ability to trade items between your
characters)
> Spellforce 1 & 2
There is actually a compilation called 'Spellforce Universe' available
(at least, in my area) that includes both games and all of their
expansions. If you see a copy in your area, it may prove itself a better
deal.
(Some may suggest 'Gothic Universe' as well since it contains all three
'chapters' and the 'Night of the Raven' expansion but I couldn't really
get into Gothic II thanks to it's flawed combat system. Your mileage, of
course, may vary) 9_9
> What do you reckon?
I think you're off to a good start with this list. Some of the regulars
may mention underdogs like 'Evil Islands' and 'Gods: Lands of Infinity'
but, as with anything else, check the reviews first. For all their
'innovative' bells and whistles, there may be some flaws waiting to drag
them, and your sense of enjoyment, into Baal's noxious realm, so to
speak.
Good luck in your search.
Signed,
Warewolf
yaugin
wrote:
> Planescape Torment
IMO, the only Infinity Engine game that is truly indispensable. BG1 is
decent but overrated, BG2 is a lot better but still not quite it, and
IWD is just Dungeon Siege with a clumsier interface.
> Fallout 1 & 2
As with BG, also decent but overrated. They might have been good for
their time, but playing these games as retro titles for the first time
might not turn out as well as you think.
> Diablo 1 & 2
Diablo 1 was great and had a truly dark atmosphere. Diablo 2 is
cartoonish by comparison, and even for its time the graphics were
terrible. It did, however, expand greatly on the "looting for
looting's sake" motivational system which is very popular for some
reason I have yet to discern.
> Might & magic 6
Didn't age well. Eyes still bleeding.
> Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
DS1 was average, but I like the fact that it didn't pretend to be
anything more than hack-and-slash. The interface does away with most
of the annoying RPG contrivances in order to let you kill and loot
with maximal efficiency. DS2 I think is actually underrated. The scope
of the game's locales and the intertwining nature of some quest-
puzzles makes it the closest thing I've played to a PC version of
Zelda. The expansion pack, on the other hand, is of clearly lesser
quality.
> Divine Divinity
Very big world that also feels very open-ended. But it's also
frustrating because you can die very quickly in a bad/gotcha
situation, and the game does not autosave, ever, and does not feature
any kind of respawn system, so if you don't remember to hit the
quicksave button every few minutes, you could end up losing hours of
real time repeating content.
> Titan Quest
Dull game IMO, very slow-paced. It's like Diablo but with fewer,
tougher mobs that take longer to kill. Graphics look aged despite it
being a newer game.
> Spellforce 1 & 2
Garbage. This is a game that tries too hard to build a gameplay core
around both RTS and RPG elements, and it ends up being pretty boring,
because the units are as nondescript as the ones you find in an RTS,
but you only have a few of them like in an RPG. So you don't get real
characters and you don't get real armies. What you actually get are
heavily pre-arranged adventure scenarios like the no-base missions in
Warcraft 3, but with the entire game built around that kind of
gameplay.
NFLed
Planescape Torment is widely regarded as one of the very best rpg's of
all time and certainly one of the most unique; it has a whole lot of
reading so if you are looking for an action-rpg then PST is not that.
Fallout 1 and 2 are widely regarded as very good, they weren't my cup
of tea in the postnuclear setting; also, they are fairly old so they
don't have some of the "modern conveniences" of more modern rpg's.
Diablo 1 and 2 are good action-rpg's if you are into that sort of
thing; I prefer a more rpg-type rpg with less action but they were
still entertaining (especially Diablo 2).
Might & Magic 6 wasn't all that good, MM7 was better. Not up to the
level of the BG series or even the okay IWD1.
Dungeon Siege 1 was *really* not my cup of tea, very much so.
Titan Quest was an okay clone of Diablo 2 but I'd recommend Diablo 2
over TQ if you want action-rpg (and neither are all that much my cup
of tea).
Siege of Avalon didn't do anything for me, I tried it but became bored
quickly. I played at least a good amount of Divine Divinity but
didn't finish it (which is a very bad sign), I otherwise don't
remember it at all (which is another bad sign).
Temple of Elemental Evil was decent until about halfway through the
game when it became repetitive and boring, I couldn't finish it.
If by Bard's Tale you mean the one from the 1980's that's probably too
old school (i.e. very much not having modern conveniences). If by a
recent somewhat comedy-based Bard's Tale that was okay but nothing
above average.
I would add here that Wizardry VI, VII, and VIII are amazing top games
(especially VIII since it's newest). The top rpg's in my view are
(not in any order): PST, BG2, Wiz8, and Knights of the Old Republic
1. You can't go wrong with any of those in my view (although PST
wouldn't be for everyone's tastes due to the volume of reading).
JAB
As Forgotten Realms can now be had so cheap I would go for that one as
it seems to include everything from the first three packages (manuals?).
That'll give you a few hours of gameplay!
magnate
On Oct 23, 6:18 pm, Mike S. <m...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:45:59 -0700, Dot Net Developer
> >Planescape Torment
>
> Heavy on story. It sometimes feels more like a graphic adventure then
> an RPG. With that said, it is a great game.
... and almost unique in the way the traditional combat 'n' stats
stuff is incidental to the storyline.
> >Diablo 1 & 2
>
> I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
> RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
The 1.11 patch, however, has more or less restored the balance. It is
once again the king of its genre (a nice call). Do get the Lord of
Destruction add-on (you can get both in a double pack for about a
tenner nowadays), it's not nearly as good without.
Diablo 1 (either with or without the Hellfire expansion) is
considerably harder, should you feel minded to try it.
> >Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
>
> Forget the first game. It is a boring game engine game. That is to
> say, there is no actual content. The game was just a showcase for the
> engine which was impressive back then. Not to mention that leveling in
> that game was so freaking boring. The sequel, however, is a much
> better game. You'll probably finish the game once then put it away for
> good. About 50+ hours or so with the expansion. But Titan Quest, also
> on your list, is far better then Dungeon Siege II.
I totally agree re DS1: I have had I think three goes at trying to
finish it, and it really just saps the will to live, it is so linear
and dull. It did look beautiful for its time (hence the temptation to
try again), but it's nothing special today. Even the Realms of Arcanna
expansion only improved the UI and added new toys, it didn't solve the
fundamental boringness of the campaign. (It did add its own separate
campaign, which I confess I never tried.)
I have yet to try DS2, it is sitting on my shelf gathering dust.
> >Space Rangers 2
>
> I never played this game but I do know it combines aspects from many
> genres. I also remember that someone over at PCGamer gave it a very
> good review score.
Another one sitting on my shelf, but likely to be tried well before
DS2. I too have heard good things about it.
> >Divine Divinity
>
> I never played this one but I think the general consensus around here
> is that it is a good game. Just stay away from the sequel as it wasn't
> anywhere near as good if I remember correctly.
Actually IMLE they are much of a muchness - the sequel doesn't really
add anything new, whereas the first one was quite an interesting take
on the genre. But both are eminently playable if you don't mind
disconnecting your hardware (you can bypass the copy protection by
physically disconnecting your CD/DVD drives - I do this as a matter of
principle, because I will not have malware installed on my system).
> >Temple of elemental evil
>
> Didn't play this one either but I do know you'll want the fan made
> patch if you get this one as I think it is pretty buggy without it.
The is a game that is totally unplayable in its official state, and
really quite good with the fan patch. I think it's at www.circleofeight.com
> >Bard's Tale
>
> I would not bother with this one. I don't recall the reviews being
> very kind to it. And it isn't anything like the old Bard's Tale games
> if the reviews I read were correct.
Rather like DS1, this was all about showing off a fancy first-person
graphics engine in a "realistic" RPG, but was actually a bit clunky to
play. Mind you, I didn't really like Morrowind/Oblivion, and it
reminded me a bit of them. If you liked them, maybe you'll like it.
> >Siege of Avalon
>
> I only heard the name, I really no nothing about this one.
Me neither.
> >Titan Quest
>
> Great game. If you like Diablo games, you definitely need to get this!
> Get this over Dungeon Siege 2.
Hmm. Not good news for DS2 then. I guess I never really gave this game
a fair try - I put it away after a couple of hours as a poor D2 clone.
But that was before the expansion (Immortal Thrones) was released,
which apparently makes a lot of improvements. Worth a look.
> >Spellforce 1 & 2
>
> No opinion here, sorry.
These are almost RTS games, not a million miles from Warcraft 3. I
actually like them both, but not enough to finish either (I have to
*really* like something to finish it, as there are always so many new
games to try!). Like the Divinity games they use quite intrusive copy
protection, so avoid if you care about such things. Personally it gave
me great satisfaction to get them both up and running without using
the CDs, just for the hell of it.
> >What do you reckon?
>
> I reckon that you will be happy with most of the games on your list as
> long as you like that style of RPG. Don't get Planescape Torment if
> you don't want to read too much. Don't get Dungeon Siege II or Titan
> Quest if you don't like action RPGs..etc.
>
> The two best games in your two posts are BG2 and Titan Quest. But I
> know others here will pick Fallout and Planescape Torment instead so I
> suggest picking amongst those four.
Hmmm. I still think Diablo2 beats Titan Quest, on the simple matter of
replayability. D2 has the same structure but randomises the maps and
monsters every game; TQ has the same maps, and even the same monsters.
It makes a big difference. So I'd recommend D2 for your actionRPG
fix.
I agree re BG2 for the classic D&D-based RPG. I was amazed when Mark
said that NWN was about as good - IMO it doesn't come anywhere close
(though to be fair there are some excellent NWN fan campaigns out
there, but we're talking about the original campaign). If you get BG2,
get BG1 as well and play them in sequence, it's really rewarding. I
personally think that BG1 is a truly excellent game in its own right,
though others disagree. Do use the "Tutu" to play BG1 in the BG2
engine, it's much nicer despite the green water.
The Fallout games are supposedly equally good for a non-D&D classic
RPG. PS:T is in a class of its own. The one game I'm surprised you
don't mention is KoToR - do you already have it?
CC
magnate
> Mike S. wrote:
> > I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
> > RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
>
> Ditto. Go back to 1.09d to play solo offline.
No, don't do that. There is a lot of new content which is not in 1.09
- go up to 1.11 instead, it's fine for solo or party play.
> Other (semi)rpgs off the top of my head not mentioned:
>
> - Star Wolves
Ooh, I'd be interested to hear views on this. It's on my radar but
don't know enough about it.
> - Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
So-so. Not too bad, but nothing special
> - Alien Shooter Vengeance (well, it's a space marine/alien version of
> Diablo, just with heaps more gibs! :)
Nos, this is just awful. How can you recommend this? It's D2 in space
with ALL the good bits taken out. It makes DS1 look like a superb
game.
> - Arx Fatalis
Yes, very dark and interesting - a good call.
> - anything from indy dev Spiderweb Software (Avernum/Geneforge series)
I am still waiting for the time to play these. Highly recommended by
many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
> - Depths of Peril (recent indy title - looks ok - try the demo)
Got some hype here, haven't really formed a view.
> - Kotor
Yeah, this was the one I would have added too. There's also a sequel
(KoToR2) which wasn't properly finished, apparently.
> - Jagged Alliance series (more squad TB strat, but with RP elements)
The first one is very old now (runs in DOSBox!), which means you can
download it from www.underdogs.info to give it a try and see if you
like it.
> - Gothic 3 (3rd person really - more recent, but didn't see it
> mentioned, same with Two Worlds - loved them both)
I assumed the OP had Gothic when he mentioned Oblivion - IMO Gothic 3
is better than Oblivion, but many disagree. Two Worlds I've not tried,
it got bad comments here and I passed on it.
> - Jade Empire (Bioware oriental style console port - not my cuppa)
Mine neither.
> - Sacred, Fable & Silverfall (not 3 of my favourites either, but some
> folk didn't mind them)
Don't know Silverfall, but I have the other two. Very different -
Sacred is a pretty straightforward D2 clone, not a million miles from
TQ. Not at all bad, but doesn't pull me back like D2. Fable is a
bright cartoony game, lots of fun for a lunch hour but not much more
than that. (Oooh bugger, I think I'm muddling it up with something
else - damn, too many games. Oh yeah - Fate is the cartoony one, Fable
is another Oblivionesque game, always got them muddled up. Fable
didn't really do it for me either.)
> - Summoner (*great* circa 2001 console-port-to-pc crpg)
Not come across this one.
CC
Paula
> "Nostromo" <nost...@nospam.org> wrote in message
> news:ffmbt2$vfu$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>>Other (semi)rpgs off the top of my head not mentioned:
>>
>
>
> Or the one I'm currently playing and enjoying quite a lot : Arcanum.
>
person that liked it. It's one of my all-time favorite games. I've
been wanting to play it lately but I'm playing LOTRO and don't have time
right now but I'll get back to it some time. :-)
Paula
Matti Kujala
>On 23 Oct, 16:17, NFLed <NF...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I strongly recommend the Baldur's Gate package as BG2 is one of the
>> very best games ever and BG1 is very good. Neverwinter Nights with
>> the expansions is a good game. Icewind Dale 1 is decent (though not
>> nearly as good as BG1) and Icewind Dale 2 is mediocre. All are worth
>> having but the Baldur's Gate package is by far the best in my view.
>Thanks for the tip. Actually, I've compiled a list of all the RPGs I
>want to buy -
>Planescape Torment
Very good game, if you don't mind a lot of reading.
>Diablo 1 & 2
I've somehow managed to never play Diablo before, and tried the first one just a few
weeks ago. The graphics wasn't very good by todays standards, and somehow the
gameplay felt so archaic I got bored before I really got the game going.
>Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
Thought it's just mi9ndless hack&slash, I actually finished the first one. However,
I didn't feel like playing the sequel anymore...
I'd like to note that there are few very interesting total conversion mods for DS1:
Ultima V remake Lazarus, Lands of Hyperborea and Mageworld, all free.
>Divine Divinity
I relly liked this game. It has some issues with mission scripting (doing thins in
wrong order can break a mission), but nothing fatal. Worst problem is that it was
rushed out so the developers didn't have time to make the end scene as they had
planned, and it's quite badly lacking content. Despite of this I would still say
it's very good game.
>Spellforce 1 & 2
Only played the first one. The story is actually quite good, if you pay proper
attention to it. I think it was the RTS game mechanics which made me miss many
subtle points in the story, which I found afterwards while reading a walkthru. The
game itself is pretty standard RTS, in most of the missions you are building you
base from the scratch and then conquering enemy etc. I would say the RPG-elements
are quite light here.
--
What sorcery, what spells, have brought thee here?
Michael Cecil
I liked it also. It did feel at the time like hardly anyone liked it but
I thought it was quite interesting. I played it through twice - once as a
tech and once as a wizard. Much easier with magic but maybe not so much
fun because you don't get to make contraptions.
--
Michael Cecil
http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
Dot Net Developer
> The one game I'm surprised you don't mention is KoToR - do you already have it?
Yep, got that one.
If it's a well known "3D style" RPG, there's a good chance I have it.
If it's an "isometric style" RPG, I don't have any. Mind you, hehe, I
just received my BG 4-in-1 game pack ... :o)
MJB
"Paula" <pd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:471f4c87$0$90268$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
I liked it when I bought it, but had problems getting it to run well on my
win98 box. But on my XP box it just flies. I really enjoy the 'steampunk'
setting and it's a welcome break from all the hacking-style fantasy games
I've already got a ton of. I also periodically delete every game on my HD
and replace them with differnet games - and this time it was Arcanum's turn.
I'll probably also pick up 'Lionheart' one day too, just to complete my
collection of fallout-style games. I fully realize Lionheart is a dog - but
I've also heard that the first half of the game is a lot of fun. And since
I very rarely actually finish any game I start, I'd probably be satisfied
just playing the first half of the game anyway.
WDS
> On Oct 23, 6:18 pm, Mike S. <m...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > >Siege of Avalon
>
> > I only heard the name, I really no nothing about this one.
>
> Me neither.
OK, I have this one and I would say don't bother. It's a heavily
scripted tactical combat game with a bit (very tiny bit) of RPing.
Now I usually like this kind of game but after playing Siege, well,
bleh. It just wasn't that good.
> > >Spellforce 1 & 2
>
> > No opinion here, sorry.
>
> These are almost RTS games, not a million miles from Warcraft 3. I
> actually like them both, but not enough to finish either (I have to
> *really* like something to finish it, as there are always so many new
> games to try!). Like the Divinity games they use quite intrusive copy
> protection, so avoid if you care about such things. Personally it gave
> me great satisfaction to get them both up and running without using
> the CDs, just for the hell of it.
For whatever reason I liked Spellforce. It had a couple of expansions/
sequels (not Spellforce 2) and I gave up partway through one of them.
The way they are structured can get really tiresome with having to
travel around between maps and the interface is clumsy. The voice
acting is absolutely horrendous for many characters.
> I agree re BG2 for the classic D&D-based RPG. I was amazed when Mark
> said that NWN was about as good - IMO it doesn't come anywhere close
> (though to be fair there are some excellent NWN fan campaigns out
> there, but we're talking about the original campaign). If you get BG2,
> get BG1 as well and play them in sequence, it's really rewarding. I
> personally think that BG1 is a truly excellent game in its own right,
> though others disagree. Do use the "Tutu" to play BG1 in the BG2
> engine, it's much nicer despite the green water.
I despised the original NWN campaign and completely set the game aside
for quite some time. I stumbled upon a review of a user module that
sounded interesting and have played scores of quite good ones since
then. The official sequels to the original campaign were much better
and the final one is really great. I even went back and replayed the
original to get some of the backstory since they are thinly linked
with some repeat characters. If you are looking for play value
nothing beats NWN and I suspect that NWN2 will play out the same way
as there are already some really excellent modules/campaigns for it.
BG2 is great but after playing it all the way through several times
now there's really nothing left there. Just doing 95% the same thing
with a different character gets boring.
WDS
> I'll probably also pick up 'Lionheart' one day too, just to complete my
> collection of fallout-style games. I fully realize Lionheart is a dog - but
> I've also heard that the first half of the game is a lot of fun. And since
> I very rarely actually finish any game I start, I'd probably be satisfied
> just playing the first half of the game anyway.
I recently tried to auction Lionheart on Ebay for $0.01 plus shipping
and got no takers. I was actually going to just toss it so if you
want my copy and are willing to pay for shipping let me know and it's
yours.
Mike S.
wrote:
>Hmmm. I still think Diablo2 beats Titan Quest, on the simple matter of
>replayability.
Actually, I should have mentioned Diablo 2 along with the other four.
I still recommend Titan Quest for single player though. For
multiplayer, he should definitely go with Diablo 2.
>D2 has the same structure but randomises the maps and
>monsters every game; TQ has the same maps, and even the same monsters.
>It makes a big difference. So I'd recommend D2 for your actionRPG
>fix.
True enough. I agree with you about the importance of randomness in
these types of games. Despite that, I STILL enjoyed Titan Quest more.
>I agree re BG2 for the classic D&D-based RPG. I was amazed when Mark
>said that NWN was about as good - IMO it doesn't come anywhere close
>(though to be fair there are some excellent NWN fan campaigns out
>there, but we're talking about the original campaign). If you get BG2,
>get BG1 as well and play them in sequence, it's really rewarding. I
>personally think that BG1 is a truly excellent game in its own right,
>though others disagree. Do use the "Tutu" to play BG1 in the BG2
>engine, it's much nicer despite the green water.
Ok, just make sure that it is EasyTutu. Tutu is a different mod that I
don't think is as up to date anymore. You can fix the green water
with the Degreenifier. Here is a link to both Easytutu and the
Degreenifier for anyone who is interested. Just scroll down a bit for
the actual downloads. --> http://usoutpost31.com/easytutu/
>The Fallout games are supposedly equally good for a non-D&D classic
>RPG. PS:T is in a class of its own. The one game I'm surprised you
>don't mention is KoToR - do you already have it?
I am not into the whole Star Wars thing. Though the guy who originally
posted this thread should definitely consider it.
Paula
I have Lionheart. I liked it really well, too, until one point it just
got really hard and I heard it went downhill from that point so I didn't
even try to go on. The first half of the game was really fun, though.
I'd recommend trying it.
Paula
MJB
"WDS" <Bi...@seurer.net> wrote in message
news:1193241878.1...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Response sent to your email address.
Thanks.
Vincenzo Beretta
>
> Forget the first game. It is a boring game engine game. That is to
> say, there is no actual content. The game was just a showcase for the
> engine which was impressive back then.
However the first DS is worth buying if only for the "Ultima V" total
conversion they did for it (called "Lazarus") - an amazing and complete RPG
game by itself.
Darin Johnson
> I liked it also. It did feel at the time like hardly anyone liked it but
> I thought it was quite interesting.
I'm playing it now. At the time it came out, it had
very high expectations that it didn't meet. It was
supposed to be the Steampunk version of Fallout.
There are some big problems with it, but there are
plenty of things it did well.
Combat early in the game is very difficult, with
just about any build. Combat is also central, and
can only rarely be avoided. Most xp comes from
combat, not from quests, so that the Fallout-style
diplomatic hero has a very tough game. Plus more
xp comes from doing damage than from the kills,
so that if NPC followers do the damage you don't
earn as much...
The story got good later on and had some very
interesting bits, but at the start it was very
bland. "Give the ring to the boy" has got to
be the second worst MacGuffin ever (next to
Daggerfall). The story doesn't really open
up until half way through.
The NPCs are pretty bland. But then, they were
in Fallout too. Only a few have anything interesting
to say (was surprised when I took the dark elf
NPC into the dwarf throne room and dialogue
broke out). None of them ever train, they won't
learn any schematics you give them, they'll
try to fight summoned helpers, etc.
> I played it through twice - once as a
> tech and once as a wizard.
First time I did it was with a melee guy with
magic buffs and assists. Mopped things up with
no trouble. Could use all the magic weapons
and armor that crop up. This is probably the
easiest character to play, and your followers
are there to carry your stuff.
Second time (a couple weeks ago) was with a
pure mage. Much harder initially, until I
restarted and gave myself the harm spell.
Even then I found myself constantly running
out of fatigue, especially in dungeons where
I couldn't rest. But this became very easy
over time. Though all the tech shops refused
me service so it was a pain trying to sell
my loot.
Now I restarted with a techie halfling who's
going to use throw mostly with a little
mild thievery. Need to find a better throwing
weapon soon since I'm relying on Malotov
cocktails too much. I'm trying to pick up
some NPCs I missed last time but I won't have
all the charisma to get the full complement.
Darin Johnson
> I have Lionheart. I liked it really well, too, until one point it just
> got really hard and I heard it went downhill from that point so I didn't
> even try to go on.
I liked it too. The first part is just so full of
quests that it can sometimes feel a bit overdone :-)
It definately changes style halfway through, and
everything becomes linear combat. That part isn't
so terrible, it's just sort of a let down. Especially
if you were building up a character that wasn't
great at combat.
--
Darin Johnson
NFLed
the setting but the combat mechanic was very unfun in my view.
Lionheart was okay although I wouldn't recommend it unless finished
with many other much better games.
Yes I agree 100%. Ultima V Lazarus was very enjoyable and one of the
games of the year last year, it uses the Dungeon Siege 1 engine so
while I disliked DS1 it became worth it just for Lazarus.
Nostromo
Cheers dude. I have DS1 somewhere - will d/l this Lazarus & give it a
go, even though it will be a big ask to raise the Ultima series from the
dead for me ;)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
> Sorry to come late to the party - who says this ng is dead!
>
> On Oct 23, 6:18 pm, Mike S. <m...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:45:59 -0700, Dot Net Developer
>>> Planescape Torment
>> Heavy on story. It sometimes feels more like a graphic adventure then
>> an RPG. With that said, it is a great game.
>
> ... and almost unique in the way the traditional combat 'n' stats
> stuff is incidental to the storyline.
>
>>> Diablo 1 & 2
>> I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
>> RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
>
> The 1.11 patch, however, has more or less restored the balance. It is
> once again the king of its genre (a nice call). Do get the Lord of
> Destruction add-on (you can get both in a double pack for about a
> tenner nowadays), it's not nearly as good without.
I'll have to take your word for it, as, alas, D2 is no longer on my HD,
after many, many years & man hours put into it *sigh*. Did they strip
out synergies in 1.11? What about that Warden filthware online? ;)
> Diablo 1 (either with or without the Hellfire expansion) is
> considerably harder, should you feel minded to try it.
>
>>> Dungeon Siege 1 & 2
>> Forget the first game. It is a boring game engine game. That is to
>> say, there is no actual content. The game was just a showcase for the
>> engine which was impressive back then. Not to mention that leveling in
>> that game was so freaking boring. The sequel, however, is a much
>> better game. You'll probably finish the game once then put it away for
>> good. About 50+ hours or so with the expansion. But Titan Quest, also
>> on your list, is far better then Dungeon Siege II.
>
> I totally agree re DS1: I have had I think three goes at trying to
> finish it, and it really just saps the will to live, it is so linear
> and dull. It did look beautiful for its time (hence the temptation to
> try again), but it's nothing special today. Even the Realms of Arcanna
> expansion only improved the UI and added new toys, it didn't solve the
> fundamental boringness of the campaign. (It did add its own separate
> campaign, which I confess I never tried.)
Not to mention badly unbalanced classes/XP, poor random loot, a game
that plays itself (except for you hitting the potion keys every now &
then), etc, etc. Let's be honest, if DS1 didn't have the graphics it
would've died a very mediocre death indeed.
> I have yet to try DS2, it is sitting on my shelf gathering dust.
>
>>> Space Rangers 2
>> I never played this game but I do know it combines aspects from many
>> genres. I also remember that someone over at PCGamer gave it a very
>> good review score.
>
> Another one sitting on my shelf, but likely to be tried well before
> DS2. I too have heard good things about it.
I've never seen it on shelves down under. Any place to buy it online
that doesn't charge an arm & a testicle for international shipping? Is
it available for direct d/l via a service like Steam perhaps?
>>> Divine Divinity
>> I never played this one but I think the general consensus around here
>> is that it is a good game. Just stay away from the sequel as it wasn't
>> anywhere near as good if I remember correctly.
>
> Actually IMLE they are much of a muchness - the sequel doesn't really
> add anything new, whereas the first one was quite an interesting take
> on the genre. But both are eminently playable if you don't mind
> disconnecting your hardware (you can bypass the copy protection by
> physically disconnecting your CD/DVD drives - I do this as a matter of
> principle, because I will not have malware installed on my system).
So, how do you install the shitware protected games in the first place? :-/
>>> Temple of elemental evil
>> Didn't play this one either but I do know you'll want the fan made
>> patch if you get this one as I think it is pretty buggy without it.
>
> The is a game that is totally unplayable in its official state, and
> really quite good with the fan patch. I think it's at www.circleofeight.com
Might have to come back to this one day, if only to honour Troika. And I
haven't tried Arcanum either, naughty me :)
>>> Bard's Tale
>> I would not bother with this one. I don't recall the reviews being
>> very kind to it. And it isn't anything like the old Bard's Tale games
>> if the reviews I read were correct.
>
> Rather like DS1, this was all about showing off a fancy first-person
> graphics engine in a "realistic" RPG, but was actually a bit clunky to
> play. Mind you, I didn't really like Morrowind/Oblivion, and it
> reminded me a bit of them. If you liked them, maybe you'll like it.
Thanks for the warning then mag ;)
>>> Siege of Avalon
>> I only heard the name, I really no nothing about this one.
>
> Me neither.
>
>>> Titan Quest
>> Great game. If you like Diablo games, you definitely need to get this!
>> Get this over Dungeon Siege 2.
>
> Hmm. Not good news for DS2 then. I guess I never really gave this game
> a fair try - I put it away after a couple of hours as a poor D2 clone.
> But that was before the expansion (Immortal Thrones) was released,
> which apparently makes a lot of improvements. Worth a look.
I keep firing this one up (with IT), but just can't gain any momentum.
Perhaps I'd enjoy a different class more (playing an earth/fire/lich all
round summoner), though pet classes are my favourites generally. I think
it's the loot - it's just not that exciting. In fact, it's crap. Random
crap mostly. Which is why I'm enjoying AO so much at the mo, because
at least you do find something useful at lower levels every now & then.
Seems in TQ I'm always buying the best stuff or having to make it with
runes/charms. I haven't had a single "Wow!" moment for dropped loot (&
only one ring that was a quest reward I think that did that to me). So,
for a D2 successor, that's not a good thing. Phat loot is key to games
like this, plus good, constant, meaty combat. TQ feels like there's
downtime after every fight & it breaks the momentum constantly. It could
just be me :-/
>>> Spellforce 1 & 2
>> No opinion here, sorry.
>
> These are almost RTS games, not a million miles from Warcraft 3. I
> actually like them both, but not enough to finish either (I have to
> *really* like something to finish it, as there are always so many new
> games to try!). Like the Divinity games they use quite intrusive copy
> protection, so avoid if you care about such things. Personally it gave
> me great satisfaction to get them both up and running without using
> the CDs, just for the hell of it.
I tried SF2 for a few missions/levels & liked it to some extent. Then
Gothic 3 came along (I think) & that was that, heh.
I think my RTS days are over - last one I enjoyed was RON:T&P a couple
years back & nothing for a looong time before that (Starcraft maybe?).
>>> What do you reckon?
>> I reckon that you will be happy with most of the games on your list as
>> long as you like that style of RPG. Don't get Planescape Torment if
>> you don't want to read too much. Don't get Dungeon Siege II or Titan
>> Quest if you don't like action RPGs..etc.
>>
>> The two best games in your two posts are BG2 and Titan Quest. But I
>> know others here will pick Fallout and Planescape Torment instead so I
>> suggest picking amongst those four.
>
> Hmmm. I still think Diablo2 beats Titan Quest, on the simple matter of
> replayability. D2 has the same structure but randomises the maps and
> monsters every game; TQ has the same maps, and even the same monsters.
> It makes a big difference. So I'd recommend D2 for your actionRPG
> fix.
Without a doubt, if you can get past the graphics whoredom of TQ ;)
> I agree re BG2 for the classic D&D-based RPG. I was amazed when Mark
> said that NWN was about as good - IMO it doesn't come anywhere close
> (though to be fair there are some excellent NWN fan campaigns out
> there, but we're talking about the original campaign). If you get BG2,
To be sure. NWN1 OC was work all the way to Chap 3 where I left it &
never looked back.
> get BG1 as well and play them in sequence, it's really rewarding. I
> personally think that BG1 is a truly excellent game in its own right,
> though others disagree. Do use the "Tutu" to play BG1 in the BG2
> engine, it's much nicer despite the green water.
I can also recommend IWD1 from the few hours I've played so far of it
recently. It's not nearly as story-less as some here would lead you to
believe & if you like a good hack & slash D&D setting, you can't go past
it. The combat is more intense & unrelenting than BG2 imo, with less
downtime.
> The Fallout games are supposedly equally good for a non-D&D classic
> RPG. PS:T is in a class of its own. The one game I'm surprised you
> don't mention is KoToR - do you already have it?
I probably had more fun with FO1/2 than any of those (& no other offline
crpg, other than maybe VTMB, since). PST is a masterpiece in some ways,
but it's fairly dated in others. The early infinity engine at 640x480
doesn't help the immersion factor & the UI is cumbersome for inv
management & combat. Kotor was probably spoiled for me by the D20 system
(even though I like D&D) - it just always felt like D&D in a SW
campaign. And, I was hoping for a bit more freedom of play in the first
SW crpg ever i.e. not just groundhogging all the way - I would've like
to be able to get into spaceships & other vehicles which are a huge part
of the SW attraction imo. Also, the ancient times Jedi theme did little
for me - I would've preferred an in-between Ep 4/5/6 game myself, with
the well known characters as NPCs/cameos. I absolutely *love* SW, but
just couldn't fall in love with Kotor, go figure. And I still haven't
tried SWG, so make of that what you will - maybe some things are best
left to the imagination :)
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
> On Oct 24, 3:51 am, Nostromo <nostr...@nospam.org> wrote:
>> Mike S. wrote:
>>> I think most would rate Diablo 2 as the king of its genre (the action
>>> RPG) but I found it to be too damn hard with the 1.10 patch.
>> Ditto. Go back to 1.09d to play solo offline.
>
> No, don't do that. There is a lot of new content which is not in 1.09
> - go up to 1.11 instead, it's fine for solo or party play.
See previous post.
>> Other (semi)rpgs off the top of my head not mentioned:
>>
>> - Star Wolves
>
> Ooh, I'd be interested to hear views on this. It's on my radar but
> don't know enough about it.
It grows on you. Voice acting can be cringeworthy, but it's otherwise a
nice little simple space crpg for the sci-fi fan. Surprisingly good
graphics even on a non-3D-accelerated laptop :)
>> - Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
>
> So-so. Not too bad, but nothing special
What I thought was special about it was that is was genre defying. This
is an action, space sim, roleplaying, adventure, strategy game all
rolled into one & it's still one of the puuurrrrtiest space games around
(other than maybe X3).
>> - Alien Shooter Vengeance (well, it's a space marine/alien version of
>> Diablo, just with heaps more gibs! :)
>
> Nos, this is just awful. How can you recommend this? It's D2 in space
> with ALL the good bits taken out. It makes DS1 look like a superb
> game.
How much did you play? I did imply good mindless fun in small doses ;-p
Hey, it's got lots of phat loot, more mobs comin at ya than Serious Sam,
a game where more is definitely MORE! :) The main thing I disliked about
it is the long levels & lack of save points (except between missions).
The rest, from mowin down bugs in shooting gallery style gun
emplacements, to mowin em down with an APC <EG>, is pretty good. Mind
you, I only got to mission 6 or 7, which was really long (for me); I had
to try it 3 or 4 times & when I finally finished it & went outside the
base, I exited just before hitting the next save point, which *really*
pissed me off. Haven't been back since :-/. Can't say whether it gets a
lot worse after that, but what I saw was ok, even _fun_. :)
>> - Arx Fatalis
>
> Yes, very dark and interesting - a good call.
I really liked the demo, but alas, never got around to finding a copy
here until much later when I had moved on. Just one I knew was liked by
many here, so thought I'd add it to the list.
>> - anything from indy dev Spiderweb Software (Avernum/Geneforge series)
>
> I am still waiting for the time to play these. Highly recommended by
> many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
Heh, they could do it in ASCII graphics & not lose too much in the
translation :)
No, that's not entirely fair, but it's more a testament to the old
school rpg gameplay goodness than a damning indictment of the visuals ;)
<snip>
>> - Gothic 3 (3rd person really - more recent, but didn't see it
>> mentioned, same with Two Worlds - loved them both)
>
> I assumed the OP had Gothic when he mentioned Oblivion - IMO Gothic 3
> is better than Oblivion, but many disagree. Two Worlds I've not tried,
> it got bad comments here and I passed on it.
Same here (on both counts). I've really enjoyed what little I've played
(probably only a dozen hours). It's actually has more similarities to
Gothic than Oblivion & some interesting/quirky/non-mainstream rpg
elements. With the latest 1.5+ patches it's bug free as far as I could
see. I'd wait for the first round of price reductions if you're in doubt
though ;). I did a mini-review of it a month ago - shouldn't be hard to
find ("Two Worlds anyone? An early mini-review" 18/9 - the article has
expired in my news client/service). The main thing to get around
initially is the relatively poor manual, especially with spells & the
mechanics of alchemy - plenty of websites to help you out though ;)
>> - Jade Empire (Bioware oriental style console port - not my cuppa)
>
> Mine neither.
>
>> - Sacred, Fable & Silverfall (not 3 of my favourites either, but some
>> folk didn't mind them)
>
> Don't know Silverfall, but I have the other two. Very different -
I just couldn't do any more of Silverfall after 4-5 hrs. It was like a
mild headache that turns into a pounding migraine & eventually makes you
throw up. I should've listened to CB, bletch.
> Sacred is a pretty straightforward D2 clone, not a million miles from
> TQ. Not at all bad, but doesn't pull me back like D2. Fable is a
> bright cartoony game, lots of fun for a lunch hour but not much more
> than that. (Oooh bugger, I think I'm muddling it up with something
> else - damn, too many games. Oh yeah - Fate is the cartoony one, Fable
> is another Oblivionesque game, always got them muddled up. Fable
> didn't really do it for me either.)
Sacred: mainly suffered from poor, unbalanced loot & repetitive gameplay
& no replay value from memory.
TQ: you could call it a D2 clone as well & with the exp it's pretty
good..but...it's just missing something(s) that made D2 great that I
don't think anyone will ever recapture. You'd think it wouldn't be hard
given there's a complete game to copy from, heh. Loki is another recent
one just came to mind - mixed reviews out there, just can't draw me in
sadly. Feels like a poor D2 clone from the moment you fire up the menu,
to creating the character to playing the first few quests. I've left it
there, bleh.
Fable: just a bit too much anime/Jap L&F for my liking. Gameplay was
slow & some of the combat interfaces poor. UI wasn't that great from
memory either. It was verging on rpg-lite, if not.
Fate: yeah, that's the one. Try the next installment from the make,
Mythos, if you've got some downtime - & it's really just a stress test
for Hellgate London from what I've been told.
>> - Summoner (*great* circa 2001 console-port-to-pc crpg)
>
> Not come across this one.
Do yourself a favour - there's a few torrents floating around if you
can't find it in an absolute bargain basement bin (it's one cd) - it's
virtually abandonware anyway. It's the best console port crpg I've
played (including Kotor imo). Even the console-style chain attacks were
well implemented on the PC & didn't detract from the enjoyment. It's
quite big too, though fairly linear. I may be biased though as I did say
I love pet/summoner classes in rpgs :)
--
Nostromo
magnate
> magnate wrote:
> >> - Star Wolves
>
> > Ooh, I'd be interested to hear views on this. It's on my radar but
> > don't know enough about it.
>
> It grows on you. Voice acting can be cringeworthy, but it's otherwise a
> nice little simple space crpg for the sci-fi fan. Surprisingly good
> graphics even on a non-3D-accelerated laptop :)
Thanks for the heads-up; it just moved a bit further up the queue.
> >> - Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
>
> > So-so. Not too bad, but nothing special
>
> What I thought was special about it was that is was genre defying. This
> is an action, space sim, roleplaying, adventure, strategy game all
> rolled into one & it's still one of the puuurrrrtiest space games around
> (other than maybe X3).
It's always interesting hearing other people's views, especially when
you think "yeah I can see how he thinks that, it just wasn't quite
like that for me". I know what you mean, but to me it ended up feeling
like "jack of all trades and master of none". To be fair I didn't give
it long, I think it arrived along with too many other games, so I'll
install it again one day and give it a second chance.
> >> - Alien Shooter Vengeance (well, it's a space marine/alien version of
> >> Diablo, just with heaps more gibs! :)
>
> > Nos, this is just awful. How can you recommend this? It's D2 in space
> > with ALL the good bits taken out. It makes DS1 look like a superb
> > game.
>
> How much did you play? I did imply good mindless fun in small doses ;-p
> Hey, it's got lots of phat loot, more mobs comin at ya than Serious Sam,
> a game where more is definitely MORE! :) The main thing I disliked about
> it is the long levels & lack of save points (except between missions).
> The rest, from mowin down bugs in shooting gallery style gun
> emplacements, to mowin em down with an APC <EG>, is pretty good. Mind
> you, I only got to mission 6 or 7, which was really long (for me); I had
> to try it 3 or 4 times & when I finally finished it & went outside the
> base, I exited just before hitting the next save point, which *really*
> pissed me off. Haven't been back since :-/. Can't say whether it gets a
> lot worse after that, but what I saw was ok, even _fun_. :)
Hmmm, I didn't play it much either, to be honest. It just looked
really bad - the graphics felt like a rehash of StarCraft. The
gameplay was ok but got tedious very quickly (I don't even think I got
as far as you did). To be honest it really suffered from being
compared in my head with D2 and SC, and it couldn't compete with
either. Granted the loot was done better than either DS1 or TQ, but
that wasn't enough to make up for the crappy look & feel or gameplay.
> >> - anything from indy dev Spiderweb Software (Avernum/Geneforge series)
>
> > I am still waiting for the time to play these. Highly recommended by
> > many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
>
> Heh, they could do it in ASCII graphics & not lose too much in the
> translation :)
> No, that's not entirely fair, but it's more a testament to the old
> school rpg gameplay goodness than a damning indictment of the visuals ;)
I'm definitely going to get these one day. I really don't care too
much about old school graphics - I'm quite happy playing FO1 or MoM or
X-Com in DosBox ...
> >> - Gothic 3 (3rd person really - more recent, but didn't see it
> >> mentioned, same with Two Worlds - loved them both)
>
> > I assumed the OP had Gothic when he mentioned Oblivion - IMO Gothic 3
> > is better than Oblivion, but many disagree. Two Worlds I've not tried,
> > it got bad comments here and I passed on it.
>
> Same here (on both counts). I've really enjoyed what little I've played
> (probably only a dozen hours). It's actually has more similarities to
> Gothic than Oblivion & some interesting/quirky/non-mainstream rpg
> elements. With the latest 1.5+ patches it's bug free as far as I could
> see. I'd wait for the first round of price reductions if you're in doubt
> though ;). I did a mini-review of it a month ago - shouldn't be hard to
> find ("Two Worlds anyone? An early mini-review" 18/9 - the article has
> expired in my news client/service). The main thing to get around
> initially is the relatively poor manual, especially with spells & the
> mechanics of alchemy - plenty of websites to help you out though ;)
Yeah, I read your mini-review and decided that you had a higher
tolerance of irritations than I do! (Bugs and lack of info and so on.)
You're right though - when I see it in a bargain bin I will certainly
pick it up, even if only to add it to the collection. My games
collection is just getting silly - it's now down to about 10% games
I've actually finished, 25% I've played a fair bit, 25% I've fired up
maybe twice for a few hours, and a whopping 40% I have yet to play at
all!! One day I will get a new hobby and stop collecting them ...
> >> - Sacred, Fable & Silverfall (not 3 of my favourites either, but some
> >> folk didn't mind them)
>
> > Don't know Silverfall, but I have the other two. Very different -
>
> I just couldn't do any more of Silverfall after 4-5 hrs. It was like a
> mild headache that turns into a pounding migraine & eventually makes you
> throw up. I should've listened to CB, bletch.
This one I won't bother to add to the collection ...
> > Sacred is a pretty straightforward D2 clone, not a million miles from
> > TQ. Not at all bad, but doesn't pull me back like D2. Fable is a
> > bright cartoony game, lots of fun for a lunch hour but not much more
> > than that. (Oooh bugger, I think I'm muddling it up with something
> > else - damn, too many games. Oh yeah - Fate is the cartoony one, Fable
> > is another Oblivionesque game, always got them muddled up. Fable
> > didn't really do it for me either.)
>
> Sacred: mainly suffered from poor, unbalanced loot & repetitive gameplay
> & no replay value from memory.
Yeah, that's why I likened it to TQ ...
> TQ: you could call it a D2 clone as well & with the exp it's pretty
> good..but...it's just missing something(s) that made D2 great that I
> don't think anyone will ever recapture. You'd think it wouldn't be hard
> given there's a complete game to copy from, heh. Loki is another recent
> one just came to mind - mixed reviews out there, just can't draw me in
> sadly. Feels like a poor D2 clone from the moment you fire up the menu,
> to creating the character to playing the first few quests. I've left it
> there, bleh.
Yep. As you say in your other post, TQ really suffers from crappy loot
(it's worse than DS1, where you at least upgraded your crappy item to
a less crappy item quite often). Another interesting observation in
your post was about downtime between combat - I actually really like
that, it gives me a chance to breathe and mess with my inventory and
check I've not done something stupid like left my RMB set to TP ... so
this was one of the best things about TQ for me - in D2 I'm constantly
falling behind!
> Fate: yeah, that's the one. Try the next installment from the make,
> Mythos, if you've got some downtime - & it's really just a stress test
> for Hellgate London from what I've been told.
Sounds good - I think I had mentally tagged Mythos as an MMO so was
ignoring it, but I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip.
> >> - Summoner (*great* circa 2001 console-port-to-pc crpg)
>
> > Not come across this one.
>
> Do yourself a favour - there's a few torrents floating around if you
> can't find it in an absolute bargain basement bin (it's one cd) - it's
> virtually abandonware anyway. It's the best console port crpg I've
> played (including Kotor imo). Even the console-style chain attacks were
> well implemented on the PC & didn't detract from the enjoyment. It's
> quite big too, though fairly linear. I may be biased though as I did say
> I love pet/summoner classes in rpgs :)
Well, I'm a pretty big scrutineer of bargain bins (though admittedly
it's been a month or two since my last scour), and I've never seen it
(nor on main shelves, for that matter). Looking for a torrent offers
me just console ROMs and Sting albums, neither of which really appeal.
If you can send me a torrent that works (I use gmail with a handle of
rantingman), I'd happily check it out.
Just to tie up a couple of loose ends in your other post:
>I'll have to take your word for it, as, alas, D2 is no longer on my HD,
>after many, many years & man hours put into it *sigh*. Did they strip
>out synergies in 1.11? What about that Warden filthware online? ;)
No, synergies are still there, but what they did was rebalance the
monsters much better. In 1.10 they beefed up the monsters for a worst-
case scenario (eveybody using cookie-cutter synergised builds), which
meant it was impossibly hard. In 1.11 they toned them back down a fair
bit, so you can use a cookie-cutter if you want, but once again a lot
of interesting builds are viable pretty much to the end of Hell -
including several that aren't viable in 1.09 (wind druid, kicksin
etc.).
The warden rubbish is still there but I'm squeaky clean so it doesn't
bother me ... (yeah I know I bang on about scouring malware off my
system but I can't live without playing D2 so I just ignore it ...)
>So, how do you install the shitware protected games in the first place? :-/
Yeah, I do have to let the sh*tware install, but then I get rid of it
after installation and before firing up the game. Let's face it, we're
only really talking about StarForce, I've not come across anything
else that is quite as offensive. So, if the game's been cracked I
remove SF completely and use the crack. If not then I unplug the CD
and DVD drives to play without the CD. The only ones I had to do that
with were the two Divinity games, which didn't last long on my HD
(though part of the reason for that was because I wanted my CD and DVD
drives back!).
I am longing to congratulate the guys who finally crack StarForce in a
way that is game-independent. That would be cool. I'd quite like to
give DD another try.
>I absolutely *love* SW, but just couldn't fall in love with Kotor, go figure. And I still
>haven't tried SWG, so make of that what you will - maybe some things are best left to the
>imagination :)
I wonder if that's because you like SW too much? I'm an SW fan too,
but had no problems with KotOR. For me it was just a pretty good D20
sci-fi RPG.
Ho hum.
CC
magnate
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 03:03:01 -0700, magnate <chr...@dbass.demon.co.uk>
> >monsters every game; TQ has the same maps, and even the same monsters.
> >It makes a big difference. So I'd recommend D2 for your actionRPG
> >fix.
>
> True enough. I agree with you about the importance of randomness in
> these types of games. Despite that, I STILL enjoyed Titan Quest more.
Did/do you have the IT expansion? If/when I get that, I will give it
another go, because it apparently makes a lot of improvements.
> >I agree re BG2 for the classic D&D-based RPG. I was amazed when Mark
> >said that NWN was about as good - IMO it doesn't come anywhere close
> >(though to be fair there are some excellent NWN fan campaigns out
> >there, but we're talking about the original campaign). If you get BG2,
> >get BG1 as well and play them in sequence, it's really rewarding. I
> >personally think that BG1 is a truly excellent game in its own right,
> >though others disagree. Do use the "Tutu" to play BG1 in the BG2
> >engine, it's much nicer despite the green water.
>
> Ok, just make sure that it is EasyTutu. Tutu is a different mod that I
> don't think is as up to date anymore. You can fix the green water
> with the Degreenifier. Here is a link to both Easytutu and the
> Degreenifier for anyone who is interested. Just scroll down a bit for
> the actual downloads. -->http://usoutpost31.com/easytutu/
This is a good catch - thanks. I spent hours wrestling with Tutu
before EasyTutu existed, and I've carefully preserved the existing
installation ever since! Yes, I understand that EasyTutu is a lot
better. I think if I reinstall I'll keep the green water though, I've
grown kind of fond of it.
> >The Fallout games are supposedly equally good for a non-D&D classic
> >RPG. PS:T is in a class of its own. The one game I'm surprised you
> >don't mention is KoToR - do you already have it?
>
> I am not into the whole Star Wars thing. Though the guy who originally
> posted this thread should definitely consider it.
Sorry, that question was replying to him, rather than to you. Turns
out he already has it, which makes sense.
CC
magnate
Good catch - this is indeed the main reason for owning DS1. There are
one or two other TCs as well, though none quite as famous as Lazarus.
CC
Dot Net Developer
> Do yourself a favour - there's a few torrents floating around if you can't find it [Summoner PC cRPG] in an absolute bargain basement bin (it's one cd) - it's virtually abandonware anyway.
I have added it to my list of PC cRPGs to buy - it can be purchased
cheaply on ebay and it appears to be a 2 CD set.
Mike S.
wrote:
>Did/do you have the IT expansion? If/when I get that, I will give it
>another go, because it apparently makes a lot of improvements.
Yes I bought both at once not too long ago so I have no idea how much
the expansion pack improves the original game.
Nostromo
-0700, Anno Domini:
Hey guys, I've just reinstalled DS1 last night & d/l Lazarus & installed it.
Yet to do more than read the intro screens (just saved at the opening
scene), but the story ain't too bad so far heh. Lots of manual to read as
well, which I like (I'm odd that way ;). Will let you know if I grow to hate
you soon for this Ultima experience <G>.
--
Nostromo
Michael Cecil
There are patches to change the font and portraits, if you want them. A
whopping 626K for them both.
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Now I restarted with a techie halfling who's
>going to use throw mostly with a little
>mild thievery. Need to find a better throwing
>weapon soon since I'm relying on Malotov
>cocktails too much. I'm trying to pick up
>some NPCs I missed last time but I won't have
>all the charisma to get the full complement.
I had good fun with a thief character - I really enjoyed finding new
towns, then spending the nigth breaking into places.
You'd find a lot of interesting stuff hidden away, iirc.
I'd love to see someone bring out a huge fan patch for Arcanum, fixing
the many problems - it was a really good game, but with a number of
large flaws.
--
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Paula
>
> I'd love to see someone bring out a huge fan patch for Arcanum, fixing
> the many problems - it was a really good game, but with a number of
> large flaws.
>
but it turned out way too far over my head. LOL
Paula
Warewolf
@registered.motzarella.org:
> magnate wrote:
>> I am still waiting for the time to play [any of Spiderweb's games].
>> Highly recommended by many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
>
> Heh, they could do it in ASCII graphics & not lose too much in the
> translation :)
Actually, after taking a hard look at the current crop of RPGs (among other
game types) I'm wondering if they could have been done 'old school' as
well. (ie Could Morrowind or Oblivion have been built using the 'engine'
of Zelda: Link's Awakening or Link to the Past?)
It's something to think about, at least. ^_^;
Signed,
Warewolf
who is just starting to get the hang of Zelda Classic, oddly enough.
*blush*
Nostromo
> On Oct 25, 7:26 am, Nostromo <nostr...@nospam.org> wrote:
>> magnate wrote:
>>>> - Star Wolves
>>> Ooh, I'd be interested to hear views on this. It's on my radar but
>>> don't know enough about it.
>> It grows on you. Voice acting can be cringeworthy, but it's otherwise a
>> nice little simple space crpg for the sci-fi fan. Surprisingly good
>> graphics even on a non-3D-accelerated laptop :)
>
> Thanks for the heads-up; it just moved a bit further up the queue.
I am here but to serve. No, wait, I'm here to kick ass & chew bubble
gum! ;) Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. I did quite a lot for a few
missions/levels (until the tyranny of time caught up with me *sigh*,
like most games these days). It's a very accessible space rpg, certainly
a no-brainer after something like X3 <rolls eyes>.
>>>> - Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
>>> So-so. Not too bad, but nothing special
>> What I thought was special about it was that is was genre defying. This
>> is an action, space sim, roleplaying, adventure, strategy game all
>> rolled into one & it's still one of the puuurrrrtiest space games around
>> (other than maybe X3).
>
> It's always interesting hearing other people's views, especially when
> you think "yeah I can see how he thinks that, it just wasn't quite
> like that for me". I know what you mean, but to me it ended up feeling
> like "jack of all trades and master of none". To be fair I didn't give
> it long, I think it arrived along with too many other games, so I'll
> install it again one day and give it a second chance.
It's got its charms...it does get a little painful with some later
stealth missions (from memory), but worth the ride imo.
>>>> - Alien Shooter Vengeance (well, it's a space marine/alien version of
>>>> Diablo, just with heaps more gibs! :)
>>> Nos, this is just awful. How can you recommend this? It's D2 in space
>>> with ALL the good bits taken out. It makes DS1 look like a superb
>>> game.
>> How much did you play? I did imply good mindless fun in small doses ;-p
>> Hey, it's got lots of phat loot, more mobs comin at ya than Serious Sam,
>> a game where more is definitely MORE! :) The main thing I disliked about
>> it is the long levels & lack of save points (except between missions).
>> The rest, from mowin down bugs in shooting gallery style gun
>> emplacements, to mowin em down with an APC <EG>, is pretty good. Mind
>> you, I only got to mission 6 or 7, which was really long (for me); I had
>> to try it 3 or 4 times & when I finally finished it & went outside the
>> base, I exited just before hitting the next save point, which *really*
>> pissed me off. Haven't been back since :-/. Can't say whether it gets a
>> lot worse after that, but what I saw was ok, even _fun_. :)
>
> Hmmm, I didn't play it much either, to be honest. It just looked
> really bad - the graphics felt like a rehash of StarCraft. The
> gameplay was ok but got tedious very quickly (I don't even think I got
> as far as you did). To be honest it really suffered from being
> compared in my head with D2 and SC, and it couldn't compete with
> either. Granted the loot was done better than either DS1 or TQ, but
> that wasn't enough to make up for the crappy look & feel or gameplay.
Horses for courses. I think I came to it completely out of left field &
had no expectations whatsoever, so I was pleasantly surprised. At the
very least I can say it's rock solid & bug free from my experience. Not
too many games can say that for their initial release, heh.
>>>> - anything from indy dev Spiderweb Software (Avernum/Geneforge series)
>>> I am still waiting for the time to play these. Highly recommended by
>>> many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
>> Heh, they could do it in ASCII graphics & not lose too much in the
>> translation :)
>> No, that's not entirely fair, but it's more a testament to the old
>> school rpg gameplay goodness than a damning indictment of the visuals ;)
>
> I'm definitely going to get these one day. I really don't care too
> much about old school graphics - I'm quite happy playing FO1 or MoM or
> X-Com in DosBox ...
Hey, jump in any time - the demos for Avernum 4, Geneforge 4 &
Nethergate Resurrection are all out & at least 1/4-1/3 of the full
playable games (not crippled in any way really until you get to later
content). What have you got to lose? ;) Just read the themes & pick the
one that sounds like you'll enjoy the most. A brief synopsis:
A4: party-based traditional fantasy isometric crpg (kinda different
setting - part underground world, part above ground world)
G4: solo (with NPCs & pets that come & go) fantasy/sci-fi-ish iso crpg
in an island realm, with 'shapers' (mages/summoners) being the
predominant power
NR: party-based 'real-world' fantasy (Romans vs Celts)
Check out the web site for a few more details & screenies:
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/
>>>> - Gothic 3 (3rd person really - more recent, but didn't see it
>>>> mentioned, same with Two Worlds - loved them both)
>>> I assumed the OP had Gothic when he mentioned Oblivion - IMO Gothic 3
>>> is better than Oblivion, but many disagree. Two Worlds I've not tried,
>>> it got bad comments here and I passed on it.
>> Same here (on both counts). I've really enjoyed what little I've played
>> (probably only a dozen hours). It's actually has more similarities to
>> Gothic than Oblivion & some interesting/quirky/non-mainstream rpg
>> elements. With the latest 1.5+ patches it's bug free as far as I could
>> see. I'd wait for the first round of price reductions if you're in doubt
>> though ;). I did a mini-review of it a month ago - shouldn't be hard to
>> find ("Two Worlds anyone? An early mini-review" 18/9 - the article has
>> expired in my news client/service). The main thing to get around
>> initially is the relatively poor manual, especially with spells & the
>> mechanics of alchemy - plenty of websites to help you out though ;)
>
> Yeah, I read your mini-review and decided that you had a higher
> tolerance of irritations than I do! (Bugs and lack of info and so on.)
> You're right though - when I see it in a bargain bin I will certainly
> pick it up, even if only to add it to the collection. My games
> collection is just getting silly - it's now down to about 10% games
> I've actually finished, 25% I've played a fair bit, 25% I've fired up
> maybe twice for a few hours, and a whopping 40% I have yet to play at
> all!! One day I will get a new hobby and stop collecting them ...
Daymn, you got more money than time - you need to find a way to buy some
more of the later! ;)
>>>> - Sacred, Fable & Silverfall (not 3 of my favourites either, but some
>>>> folk didn't mind them)
>>> Don't know Silverfall, but I have the other two. Very different -
>> I just couldn't do any more of Silverfall after 4-5 hrs. It was like a
>> mild headache that turns into a pounding migraine & eventually makes you
>> throw up. I should've listened to CB, bletch.
>
> This one I won't bother to add to the collection ...
The thing that's so annoying is that it's such a lost opportunity, as
with a few minor changes to the design, a bit more content & restructure
& a lot more QA it could've been a fairly decent (if average) rpg.
>>> Sacred is a pretty straightforward D2 clone, not a million miles from
>>> TQ. Not at all bad, but doesn't pull me back like D2. Fable is a
>>> bright cartoony game, lots of fun for a lunch hour but not much more
>>> than that. (Oooh bugger, I think I'm muddling it up with something
>>> else - damn, too many games. Oh yeah - Fate is the cartoony one, Fable
>>> is another Oblivionesque game, always got them muddled up. Fable
>>> didn't really do it for me either.)
>> Sacred: mainly suffered from poor, unbalanced loot & repetitive gameplay
>> & no replay value from memory.
>
> Yeah, that's why I likened it to TQ ...
It's still heaven on a stick compared to Silverfall ;)
>> TQ: you could call it a D2 clone as well & with the exp it's pretty
>> good..but...it's just missing something(s) that made D2 great that I
>> don't think anyone will ever recapture. You'd think it wouldn't be hard
>> given there's a complete game to copy from, heh. Loki is another recent
>> one just came to mind - mixed reviews out there, just can't draw me in
>> sadly. Feels like a poor D2 clone from the moment you fire up the menu,
>> to creating the character to playing the first few quests. I've left it
>> there, bleh.
>
> Yep. As you say in your other post, TQ really suffers from crappy loot
> (it's worse than DS1, where you at least upgraded your crappy item to
> a less crappy item quite often). Another interesting observation in
> your post was about downtime between combat - I actually really like
> that, it gives me a chance to breathe and mess with my inventory and
> check I've not done something stupid like left my RMB set to TP ... so
> this was one of the best things about TQ for me - in D2 I'm constantly
> falling behind!
He, he, & I thought I was the slowpoke! (Just ask CB, Xocyll, MVD & a
few others how much waiting they did for me, even in fast games like CoH
lol!). But yeah, I get your point, I just think some of the best gaming
in D2 was when a party frantically (though not recklessly :) charged
wave after wave after wave...until someone hit a MSLEB unknowingly
<whistles while rolling eyes at sky>. And I am talking Hardcore closed
realms play here mainly >8^D
>> Fate: yeah, that's the one. Try the next installment from the make,
>> Mythos, if you've got some downtime - & it's really just a stress test
>> for Hellgate London from what I've been told.
>
> Sounds good - I think I had mentally tagged Mythos as an MMO so was
> ignoring it, but I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip.
Let us know how you go. I played a couple hours & lost interest - it was
like a clone between D2 & Fate - I didn't know whether it was trying to
take itself seriously, or they were just subtly taking the piss out of
me :-/ I guess nothing about it was compelling to me in the end.
>>>> - Summoner (*great* circa 2001 console-port-to-pc crpg)
>>> Not come across this one.
>> Do yourself a favour - there's a few torrents floating around if you
>> can't find it in an absolute bargain basement bin (it's one cd) - it's
>> virtually abandonware anyway. It's the best console port crpg I've
>> played (including Kotor imo). Even the console-style chain attacks were
>> well implemented on the PC & didn't detract from the enjoyment. It's
>> quite big too, though fairly linear. I may be biased though as I did say
>> I love pet/summoner classes in rpgs :)
>
> Well, I'm a pretty big scrutineer of bargain bins (though admittedly
> it's been a month or two since my last scour), and I've never seen it
> (nor on main shelves, for that matter). Looking for a torrent offers
> me just console ROMs and Sting albums, neither of which really appeal.
> If you can send me a torrent that works (I use gmail with a handle of
> rantingman), I'd happily check it out.
Yeah, there's a few locked links on torrent-finder (probably just need a
throwaway account to the specific sites). Here's one looks like it's a
direct link, though I'm not getting any seeds/peers:
http://www.mininova.org/tor/219911
Worst case scenario, I can rar the image & put up a torrent, though I
have very slow upstream b/width on my crappy 512/128 (only usually allow
10-12KBytes/sec at most so I don't flood my link). That could take quite
a while for a CD d/l...
> Just to tie up a couple of loose ends in your other post:
>
>> I'll have to take your word for it, as, alas, D2 is no longer on my HD,
>> after many, many years & man hours put into it *sigh*. Did they strip
>> out synergies in 1.11? What about that Warden filthware online? ;)
>
> No, synergies are still there, but what they did was rebalance the
> monsters much better. In 1.10 they beefed up the monsters for a worst-
> case scenario (eveybody using cookie-cutter synergised builds), which
> meant it was impossibly hard. In 1.11 they toned them back down a fair
> bit, so you can use a cookie-cutter if you want, but once again a lot
> of interesting builds are viable pretty much to the end of Hell -
> including several that aren't viable in 1.09 (wind druid, kicksin
> etc.).
>
> The warden rubbish is still there but I'm squeaky clean so it doesn't
> bother me ... (yeah I know I bang on about scouring malware off my
> system but I can't live without playing D2 so I just ignore it ...)
He, he, reason I hate(d) it so much is that it did nothing to really
stop the hackers/cheaters, but it did do a LOT to increase lag & lag
deaths, especially for players outside of the US like myself. Plus I
couldn't my favourite utility (MapHack) to make my game more enjoyable
(generally only use the light & reveal monster features, mostly because
of the broken MSLEBs in 1.09+ which were insta-death normally). And no,
I don't want to have a philosophical debate about MH yet again :)
>> So, how do you install the shitware protected games in the first place? :-/
>
> Yeah, I do have to let the sh*tware install, but then I get rid of it
> after installation and before firing up the game. Let's face it, we're
> only really talking about StarForce, I've not come across anything
> else that is quite as offensive. So, if the game's been cracked I
> remove SF completely and use the crack. If not then I unplug the CD
> and DVD drives to play without the CD. The only ones I had to do that
> with were the two Divinity games, which didn't last long on my HD
> (though part of the reason for that was because I wanted my CD and DVD
> drives back!).
I generally d/l the cracked version of the game, even/especially when I
buy a SF infested game. They really do punish the customer & reward the
pirate :)
> I am longing to congratulate the guys who finally crack StarForce in a
> way that is game-independent. That would be cool. I'd quite like to
> give DD another try.
There's a v1.34 no-cd/fixed exe at gamecopyworld which no doubt removes
the filthware. Do you not use no-cds as a matter of principal...?
>> I absolutely *love* SW, but just couldn't fall in love with Kotor, go figure. And I still
>> haven't tried SWG, so make of that what you will - maybe some things are best left to the
>> imagination :)
>
> I wonder if that's because you like SW too much? I'm an SW fan too,
> but had no problems with KotOR. For me it was just a pretty good D20
> sci-fi RPG.
>
> Ho hum.
There you have it ;).
--
Nostromo
Gerry Quinn
warewol...@shaw.ca says...
> Nostromo <nost...@nospam.org> wrote in news:ffpcr3$pal$1
> @registered.motzarella.org:
>
> > magnate wrote:
> >> I am still waiting for the time to play [any of Spiderweb's games].
> >> Highly recommended by many, but don't expect fancy graphics.
> >
> > Heh, they could do it in ASCII graphics & not lose too much in the
> > translation :)
>
> Actually, after taking a hard look at the current crop of RPGs (among other
> game types) I'm wondering if they could have been done 'old school' as
> well. (ie Could Morrowind or Oblivion have been built using the 'engine'
> of Zelda: Link's Awakening or Link to the Past?)
Well, most of the same basic concepts could have been presented. The
first Elder Scrolls game, Arena, looks a bit like Dungeon Master. You
can follow the development further back by looking at the Might and
Magic series.
What people looking through rose-tinted glasses at older games forget
is that the older games almost invariably had less complexity, less
plotting, fewer and simpler quests, less dialogue, and more mindless
combat and map-making obstacles to compensate, compared to modern games
such as Oblivion.
- Gerry Quinn
yaugin
> Actually, after taking a hard look at the current crop of RPGs (among other
> game types) I'm wondering if they could have been done 'old school' as
> well. (ie Could Morrowind or Oblivion have been built using the 'engine'
> of Zelda: Link's Awakening or Link to the Past?)
I'm going to say no, and use this as an excuse to rant about a pet
peeve. This wouldn't work because Zelda isn't a dice-rolling RPG. In
Zelda, if the guy is in range and you swing, you're gonna hit him,
unless he happens to block or is invulnerable from that direction,
etc. I never really got into Elder Scrolls or M&M because they give
you direct control (1 click = 1 swing) over the characters, but the
visible actions don't match up with the results. It's completely
immersion breaking for me to swing 10 times and somehow, of my own
accord, I miss half of those swings. You don't need to be a
swordmaster to hit something with a sword. If you miss, it's because
they did something to avoid it. But few RPGs actually represent this
in a convincing manner. In Dark Messiah for example, you can actually
see your targets lean away and duck under your swings. Though that's
an action game, where such things as random misses are rather annoying
in their own right.
Rick Cortese
Clumsy interfaces and simple graphics for sure. They were done in an era
where you couldn't even count on people having a mouse. I seem to recall
nags first appearing in games like Ultima VII circa 1992 if you tried to
run it without a mouse.
IMO: The people that wrote the games were as smart as the ones writing
them now, if they aren't the same people.
Thinking back to Pools of Radiance circa 1988 anyway. At the time I was
still using a really weak system, ~$699 Epson 10 mHz XT with
CGA/Composite graphics on a mono Green monitor. I literally ran out and
bought a $140 floppy card and external 1.44 meg 3.5" drive in an
external case for another $170 or so. Whole game fit on a single 1.44
meg disk and provided a lot of bang even for the expense. Since the 396
had been out a while I managed to upgrade that same year to a 286 system
with 20 meg hard drive for less then $500 when those prices dropped.
For me the reason I enjoyed those games was the turn based tactical
combat along with an element of luck involved. Sometimes your mage would
get off a mass damage spell early and uninterupted, other times
something would tag them and interupt the spell => you would be
reloading a saved game shortly. It was anything but mindless.
Rick
Wolfing
> In article <Xns99D4CE9B0CECFwarewolfshawm...@24.64.223.211>,
> warewolfmypa...@shaw.ca says...
>
> > Nostromo <nostr...@nospam.org> wrote in news:ffpcr3$pal$1
It's not 'rose-tinted' glasses. I liked 'old school' RPGs because they
were more about strategic fights than twitch reflexes, and because
they were party based so you would spend a day just to think what
party composition you would use. I remember salivating while reading
the manuals (back when they were actually manuals, they're called
'strategy guides' now and cost extra $20, but I digress), and thinking
about my party. Creating the characters was an involved process with
lots of options, very different than today's 'pick a gender and one of
3 possible classes'.
Darin Johnson
> What people looking through rose-tinted glasses at older games forget
> is that the older games almost invariably had less complexity, less
> plotting, fewer and simpler quests, less dialogue, and more mindless
> combat and map-making obstacles to compensate, compared to modern games
> such as Oblivion.
Except that this isn't strictly true. Many complaints
about Oblivion actually are that it has very little plot,
poor dialogue, simplistic quests, etc. Ok, compared to
Wizardry 1, it's a marvel of the storytelling technique.
But not when compared to later CRPGs like Fallout,
Baldur's Gate, Planescape, etc.
--
Darin Johnson
Gerry Quinn
wolf...@gmail.com says...
> On Oct 26, 7:43 am, Gerry Quinn <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote:
> > What people looking through rose-tinted glasses at older games forget
> > is that the older games almost invariably had less complexity, less
> > plotting, fewer and simpler quests, less dialogue, and more mindless
> > combat and map-making obstacles to compensate, compared to modern games
> > such as Oblivion.
>
> It's not 'rose-tinted' glasses. I liked 'old school' RPGs because they
> were more about strategic fights than twitch reflexes, and because
> they were party based so you would spend a day just to think what
> party composition you would use. I remember salivating while reading
> the manuals (back when they were actually manuals, they're called
> 'strategy guides' now and cost extra $20, but I digress), and thinking
> about my party. Creating the characters was an involved process with
> lots of options, very different than today's 'pick a gender and one of
> 3 possible classes'.
But was it all necessary? The old-school games were often not balanced
at all, characters often became uber-powerful without needing to use
the stuff they found. The complexity was an illusion.
Anyway, games like Oblivion, for example, allow you to choose from 30
classes, or create a customised one. Most times when games don't do
that, it's a deliberate design decision to get away from all that
stuff.
- Gerry Quinn
Gerry Quinn
da...@usa.net says...
The quality of the dialoge is an aesthetic judgement. But does it have
less dialog, or more? Are the quests really more complex in the other
games? What metric are people using? All quests in computer games are
basically "go to A to get a key for lock B", sometimes iterated, along
with some flavour text. That is as true of Oblivion as it was of
Baldur's Gate, PS:T, or Wizardry 1.
- Gerry Quinn