MM8 Training Lowers Score Dramatically
Robert Huston
my characters only to the point that the necro had GM in the Elemental
Magics and Dark Magic and the cleric had GM in the Self Magics and Light
Magic. I reached this point when my PC was at Level 40.
Level
Without Training Level Following
Training
Joren, the Minotaur Lord (PC) 40
67
Nathaniel Roberts, the Lich 42
69
Dyson Leland, the Cleric of the Sun 42
69
Ithilgore, the Great Wyrm 39
71
Cauri Blackthorne, the Dark Elf Patriarch 59
79
With no training after Joren's level 40, I finished the game in 1 year, 4
months, and 14 days for a score of 5,096. All quests were completed except
for the "Step and Fetchit" black potion quests (too boring) and the Vault of
Time (game finished before Midsummer's Day in the second year). The game
was saved at the cell entrance to the last imprisoned elemental lord.
Starting with the last savegame, rather than finishing, I went to
Shadowspire to train to the maximum my accumulated experience would allow.
I took one break to complete the Vault of Time quest on Midsummer's Day and
another to reset my Beacons before they expired. At the end of training my
party had reached the higher levels indicated above. I then Beaconed back
to free the last elemental lord. Game time had grown to 2 years, 1 month,
and 23 days. My score plummeted to 3,257.
Can anyone explain the computations that NWC uses in their scoring formulas
to reach this disparity and what the rationale might be to penalize so
heavily the player who trains ? There is nothing in the manual concerning
scoring and it seems to me that the "training penalty" in MM8 is much higher
(percentage-wise) than it was in MM7. I much preferred the way training was
handled in MM6 (training sessions of one week regardless of the number of
levels trained).
The foregoing small gripe notwithstanding, NWC has turned out another solid
piece of entertainment!
Regards,
Bob
Zachary S Tseng
"Robert Huston" <hus...@home.com> wrote in message
news:S_CH4.145267$bm.5...@news1.alsv1.occa.home.com...
>
> With no training after Joren's level 40, I finished the game in 1 year, 4
> months, and 14 days for a score of 5,096. All quests were completed except
> for the "Step and Fetchit" black potion quests (too boring) and the Vault of
> Time (game finished before Midsummer's Day in the second year). The game
> was saved at the cell entrance to the last imprisoned elemental lord.
>
> Starting with the last savegame, rather than finishing, I went to
> Shadowspire to train to the maximum my accumulated experience would allow.
> I took one break to complete the Vault of Time quest on Midsummer's Day and
> another to reset my Beacons before they expired. At the end of training my
> party had reached the higher levels indicated above. I then Beaconed back
> to free the last elemental lord. Game time had grown to 2 years, 1 month,
> and 23 days. My score plummeted to 3,257.
>
> Can anyone explain the computations that NWC uses in their scoring formulas
> to reach this disparity and what the rationale might be to penalize so
> heavily the player who trains ? There is nothing in the manual concerning
> scoring and it seems to me that the "training penalty" in MM8 is much higher
> (percentage-wise) than it was in MM7. I much preferred the way training was
> handled in MM6 (training sessions of one week regardless of the number of
> levels trained).
Well, each level of training takes 7 days, which actually explains everything.
The games in MM series all determine the final score by the formula of dividing
the amount of total experience points by the number of days you took to complete
the game.
Since you didn't gain any more experience before the final training, the same
amount was divided by 16 months (28 days each) and 14 days = 462 days, and by 25
months and 23 days = 723 days. So your final score was reduced from 5096 to
5096*(462/723) = 3256 after the long training session. The formula works
perfectly...
Cheers,
Robert Huston
"Zachary S Tseng" <ts...@math.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:8cmv7f$v...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
>
[SNIP]
> Well, each level of training takes 7 days, which actually explains
everything.
> The games in MM series all determine the final score by the formula of
dividing
> the amount of total experience points by the number of days you took to
complete
> the game.
>
> Since you didn't gain any more experience before the final training, the
same
> amount was divided by 16 months (28 days each) and 14 days = 462 days, and
by 25
> months and 23 days = 723 days. So your final score was reduced from 5096
to
> 5096*(462/723) = 3256 after the long training session. The formula works
> perfectly...
>
Zach:
Thanks for the explanation. I guess the problem I have with the MM7/MM8
approach to training is that it unduly penalizes the player for success.
For example, Ithilgore had a maximum damage potential of 110 before my final
training session and a whopping 230 afterwards. In order to maximize my
score I had to forego gameplay at these higher ability levels that the MM6
training regimen would have allowed.
Regards,
Bob
Lost Dragon
>approach to training is that it unduly penalizes the player for success.
It makes more sense to me that if you finish the game with lower level
characters, you ought to have a higher score.
Think about it... If I can kill the foozle in 2 months at level 10 -
I ought to have a better score than somebody who couldn't do it until
he reached level 50.
/| .oo__. .-----.=- -= Lost Dragon =- -=.-----. U
{ \| ,-'' | _O_ |==- -= Forever Dead Forgotten Lie =- -==| _O_ | D
`,_/'(_)\_ | | |==- Remembered Souls, They Cannot Die -==| | | I
<...{_)_)_''`-----`===-- http://www.lostdragon.com/ --==='-----' C
Robert Huston
"Lost Dragon" <lostd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3iuueskel8f1rqqi6...@4ax.com...
> >Thanks for the explanation. I guess the problem I have with the MM7/MM8
> >approach to training is that it unduly penalizes the player for success.
>
> It makes more sense to me that if you finish the game with lower level
> characters, you ought to have a higher score.
>
> Think about it... If I can kill the foozle in 2 months at level 10 -
> I ought to have a better score than somebody who couldn't do it until
> he reached level 50.
I agree with you completely. I just think the degree of penalty is too
high. In MM6 you could train, say, ten levels and only lose a week in time.
The MM7/8 training procedure costs one week per level and encourages you to
try to finish as, say, a level 1 knight to maximize your score. Assuming
that you could do so, you might get a great score but you would miss out on
some very entertaining aspects of the game play.
Regards,
Bob
Howie
formulas
> to reach this disparity and what the rationale might be to penalize so
> heavily the player who trains ?
Who cares about the score anyway?
Howie
BrettT2466
> you finish the game with lower level
> characters, you ought to have a
> higher score.
Only if MM8 is a strategy game, where the goal is to put in the best overall
"performance."
But MM8 isn't a strategy game; it's an RPG. The purpose of an RPG is to watch
your characters grow and develop over time, and to experience the world they
live in. MM8's scoring system discourages players from watching their
characters grow stronger. It's inconsistent with the nature of an RPG.
You could argue, though, that the only people who care about the scoring system
anyway are those who approach MM8 as a strategy game. In that respect I guess
it makes a kind of sense. But still bothers me to see an RPG which discourages
character development.
--Brett Turner