Ultima Underworld III?
K.L. Pittman
to link Ultima VIII with the upcoming Ultima IX?
--
K.L. Pittman - Sophomore CS Major, and proud of it!
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ccastkp
Internet: cca...@prism.gatech.edu
Jim Vieira
: Anyone know if there will be an Ultima Underworld III? Perhaps something
I don't know about Ultima Underworlds III (there have been rumors of this
forever). But, I read an article with Richard Garriot of Origin about a
year ago in which he said that Ultima 9 would be the LAST Ultima game.
Hence this is why the Avatar becomes so insanely powerful in Ultima 8,
and also this explains the destruction of Britannia at the end of Ultima
8. Ultima 9 is supposed to be called Ascension, and deals with the
Avatar learning to be a god or something.
Garriot also said that the next level of RPG from them would be a mixture
of the Ultima games and the Ultima Underworlds game. A real 3d first
person perspective quest (shades of TOS:The Arena?). But he did say that
the Avatar, Lord British and all of Britannia will be no more.
Does anyone know if this is still the case? I read this article in an
Electronic Gaming monthly about a year ago.
--
Jim Vieira
jay...@earth.execpc.com
Robert Shannon Gregg
place in Britannia. Whether the destroyed world seen at the end of
U8 is Britannia or something else is still unclear.
U9 is titled "Ascension". I've read articles claiming that Ultima 10
will be the last one, and that it would be first-person perspective,
like the Underworlds. Perhaps it would no longer be called Ultima.
Nevertheless, it's all speculation and subject to change, especially
considering that even U9 probably won't be out until at least early '96.
-Robert
The Hermit
>
> K.L. Pittman (cca...@prism.gatech.edu) wrote:
> : Anyone know if there will be an Ultima Underworld III? Perhaps something
> : to link Ultima VIII with the upcoming Ultima IX?
> : --
> : K.L. Pittman - Sophomore CS Major, and proud of it!
> : Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
> : uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!ccastkp
> : Internet: cca...@prism.gatech.edu
>
> I don't know about Ultima Underworlds III (there have been rumors of this
> forever). But, I read an article with Richard Garriot of Origin about a
> year ago in which he said that Ultima 9 would be the LAST Ultima game.
> Hence this is why the Avatar becomes so insanely powerful in Ultima 8,
> and also this explains the destruction of Britannia at the end of Ultima
> 8. Ultima 9 is supposed to be called Ascension, and deals with the
> Avatar learning to be a god or something.
Ideas:
The avatar is really powerful at the end of U8, but still not on the
Guardian's level. (Would he really put the avatar in a spot where the
avatar could gain that kind of power?) This idea of "becoming a god"
would make ordinary mortals utterly useless as help, but U9 is supposed
to give you party members. (Unless party members in U9 aren't ordinary
mortals, but that would make it about as traditional as U8.) On a more
practical note, how would you make an interface for godlike powers? One
possible reason that you never become a Tempest in U8 is that there's no
good way to allow players to manipulate that type of innate power.
The Guardian laughs at you at the end of U8. He obviously doesn't feel
threatened. It would be interesting if, after all the trouble you've
gone to to become powerful, he just strips away all that you gained in U8.
The real question is, why does the Guardian want the avatar left alive?
There must be some reason why, when he has the avatar in the palm of his
hand, he doesn't just squeeze.
the views and opinions expressed by The Hermit are not necessarily those of
The Hermit
"who needs truth if it's dull?" mason williams the exciting accident
Alistair Brown
>The real question is, why does the Guardian want the avatar left alive?
>There must be some reason why, when he has the avatar in the palm of his
>hand, he doesn't just squeeze.
Perhaps because that would be no fun at all? Wouldn't the guardian really
enjoy putting the avatar in a position where they think they're able to
defeat the guardian... before bringing on his mother?
Alistair
--
Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
Jim Vieira
I agree. It seemed to me that the Guardian didn't want to kill the
Avatar, he just wanted to dump him off somewhere while he destroyed
Britannia. I also think the Guardian knew that the Avatar would achieve
ultimate power on Pagan, and WANTED him to do so. This way the Avatar
could return to Britannia (endgame U8) and see the destruction. It also
would then allow for a more evenly matched final battle in U9. This
is the type of logic I see in villians in stories and movies now and
then. The bad guy is so confident that he is willing to risk it all just
to gloat over his victim. But in the end, the victim outdoes him and wins.
--
Jim Vieira
jay...@earth.execpc.com
Martin 'Efchen' Friedrich
>> I don't know about Ultima Underworlds III (there have been rumors of this
>> forever). But, I read an article with Richard Garriot of Origin about a
>> year ago in which he said that Ultima 9 would be the LAST Ultima game.
>> 8. Ultima 9 is supposed to be called Ascension, and deals with the
>> Avatar learning to be a god or something.
Oh well, they said many things. Let me collect all rumors I heard.
- After Ultima IV LB pronounced this was the last Ultima.
- About the time of Ultima VI Origin was thinking about Ultima X which
should support virtual reality.
- There will be no Ultima III, as the contract with Looking Glass is ended
after System Shock.
- Ultima IX was named Ascension (this is from the times of Ultima VII-1)
and is supposed to play on the world of the guardian.
- Newest rumors say, Ultima IX is taking place back on Britannia.
Have fun, spreading more rumors:)
-Efchen
--
/~\ | Martin Friedrich IRC/MUD: Efchen
C oo | Postfach 1602 TAPPMud: m...@surprise.pro.ufz.de
_( ^) | 91006 Erlangen
~\ | GERMANY email: efc...@mises.uni-paderborn.de
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bugs crawl in the bugs crawl out, the bugs crawl up and down my snout!
Matthew Duncan
Jim Vieira <jay...@earth.execpc.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
>would then allow for a more evenly matched final battle in U9. This
>is the type of logic I see in villians in stories and movies now and
>then. The bad guy is so confident that he is willing to risk it all just
>to gloat over his victim. But in the end, the victim outdoes him and wins.
Exactly. This is a common way to depict evil characters. It's the old
manipulate-and-create-false-hope-then-rip-it-all-away-showing-the-hero-
they-never-had-a-chance-and-laugh-in-their-face trick. Apperantly killing
and maiming is not enough. Torment is also very satisfying.
Matt.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Duncan, Department of Psychology "Everything I know about
University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario. cleaning poop off the carpet
M5S 1A1. Email: dun...@psych.toronto.edu I learned from my cat"
Christopher Meem Johnson
scheme (Including Killing the Avatar).
--Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cjoh...@uceng.uc.edu | My God can beat up your God
University of Cincinnati | Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
x93b...@wmich.edu
To the middle part about the ending of ULTIMA 8. That isn't a
destroyed Brittania. It is the Guardian's homeworld.
STEFAN M. THIEME
hnson) writes:
>In article <3bl8i9$2...@homer.alpha.net> jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira) wr
ites:
>>Alistair Brown (A.D....@bradford.ac.uk) wrote:
>>
>>: The Hermit <s010...@cc.ysu.edu> writes:
>>: >The real question is, why does the Guardian want the avatar left alive?
>>: >There must be some reason why, when he has the avatar in the palm of his
>>: >hand, he doesn't just squeeze.
Assuming that IS his hand, and not just some inter-dimensional gate spell
disguised to LOOK like a hand (remember, we saw Big REd at the end of U7;
he was big, but not that huge).
>>
>>: Perhaps because that would be no fun at all? Wouldn't the guardian really
>>: enjoy putting the avatar in a position where they think they're able to
>>: defeat the guardian... before bringing on his mother?
>>
>>I agree. It seemed to me that the Guardian didn't want to kill the
>>Avatar, he just wanted to dump him off somewhere while he destroyed
>>Britannia. I also think the Guardian knew that the Avatar would achieve
>>ultimate power on Pagan, and WANTED him to do so. This way the Avatar
>>could return to Britannia (endgame U8) and see the destruction. It also
>>would then allow for a more evenly matched final battle in U9. This
>>is the type of logic I see in villians in stories and movies now and
>>then. The bad guy is so confident that he is willing to risk it all just
>>to gloat over his victim. But in the end, the victim outdoes him and wins.
>>
I agree that the Guardian wanted the Avatar to escape, but not for those
reasons. Remember, he was unable to enter Britannia without someone elses help.
(i.e. the Fellowship had to make him a black gate in u7, Batlin was supposed
to open the wall of lights for him in u7.5. There is no evidence that he
truely entered Britannia in Uw2 or during u8 -except at the end of the latter,
of course).
So he gets the Avatar to do it for him (nice evil twist there; make the HERO
do your dirty work for you). Since the Avatar is in limbo at the
end of u7.5, there's no problem capturing him. Big Red dumps him down into
Pagan, taunts the Avatar about how he is "destroying Britannia" and the
Avatar, the heroic little fool he is, opens a black(rock) gate to Britannia.
The Avatar gets through, but so does the Guardian.
(what about Uw2, you ask...when the Guardian fought his war on Britannian soil?
No one opened the gate then! Of course, in UW2's endgame, Britannia looks
fine, and no mention of the destruction in u7.5. The Guardian lied.)
(okay, fine, you say...But Britannia WAS destroyed by the end of U8!
Yeah, but we don't know how long the Avatar wandered about in the Hall of
Pillars; possibly enough time for the Guardian to get through and destroy the
Britannia. Besides, Britannia had already suffered cataclysm during U7.5)
(Finally, What about Pagan? Perhaps that world was worthless, drained to the
Guardian; no loss to him if the few survivors no longer worship him).
Comments?
>>--
>> Jim Vieira
>> jay...@earth.execpc.com
>>
>It's called meglomania (spelling?) absolutely everything has to be a grand
>scheme (Including Killing the Avatar).
>
>--Chris
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>cjoh...@uceng.uc.edu | My God can beat up your God
>University of Cincinnati | Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
bye.
--------- Then when the Dragon, put to second rout -------------------
| The | Came furious down to be reveng'd on Men | sm...@lehigh.edu |
| AVATAR | Woe to the inhabitants on Earth... |take a step in time|
|_________| - Paradise Lost book IV, l.3-5 |___________________|
Alistair Brown
>In article <D0B81...@uceng.uc.edu>, cjoh...@uceng.uc.edu (Christopher Meem Jo
>hnson) writes:
>>In article <3bl8i9$2...@homer.alpha.net> jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira) wr
>ites:
>>>Alistair Brown (A.D....@bradford.ac.uk) wrote:
>>>
>>>: The Hermit <s010...@cc.ysu.edu> writes:
>>>: >The real question is, why does the Guardian want the avatar left alive?
>>>: >There must be some reason why, when he has the avatar in the palm of his
>>>: >hand, he doesn't just squeeze.
>Assuming that IS his hand, and not just some inter-dimensional gate spell
>disguised to LOOK like a hand (remember, we saw Big REd at the end of U7;
>he was big, but not that huge).
He's put on weight since then.
>I agree that the Guardian wanted the Avatar to escape, but not for those
>reasons. Remember, he was unable to enter Britannia without someone elses help.
>(i.e. the Fellowship had to make him a black gate in u7, Batlin was supposed
>to open the wall of lights for him in u7.5. There is no evidence that he
>truely entered Britannia in Uw2 or during u8 -except at the end of the latter,
>of course).
Did anyone else find the moongate in the etherial void in UW2 that takes
you directly to the throne room?
>(what about Uw2, you ask...when the Guardian fought his war on Britannian soil?
> No one opened the gate then! Of course, in UW2's endgame, Britannia looks
> fine, and no mention of the destruction in u7.5. The Guardian lied.)
Ummm... U7.5 was _after_ UW2 AFAIK.
>(okay, fine, you say...But Britannia WAS destroyed by the end of U8!
>Yeah, but we don't know how long the Avatar wandered about in the Hall of
>Pillars; possibly enough time for the Guardian to get through and destroy the
>Britannia. Besides, Britannia had already suffered cataclysm during U7.5)
>(Finally, What about Pagan? Perhaps that world was worthless, drained to the
>Guardian; no loss to him if the few survivors no longer worship him).
I would be surprised if the guardian actually destroys somewhere
physically. Perhaps he will go so far as to eliminate all those who
oppose him (such as those you saw in the ice world and in Praector
Loth's tomb in UW2).
Wouldn't it be more satisfying for the guardian to subvert the
principles of a world and bring the Avatar into a Britannia that
despises him? Hmmm... this actually could tie in quite well with the
fellowship in U7.
Alistair
--
Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
Jim Vieira
: >(what about Uw2, you ask...when the Guardian fought his war on Britannian
: > No one opened the gate then! Of course, in UW2's endgame, Britannia looks
: > fine, and no mention of the destruction in u7.5. The Guardian lied.)
: Ummm... U7.5 was _after_ UW2 AFAIK.
I agree. If I remember correctly UW2 said something about 6 months after
the destruction of the black gate, but U7.5 said something like 18months
after, etc. I don't belive that UW2 is considered 'fodder' for the Ultima
storyline anymore anyway.
: >(okay, fine, you say...But Britannia WAS destroyed by the end of U8!
This is my opinion also. Some have said the endgame of U8 was the Avatar
in the Guardian's homeworld. I don't buy it (unless someone from Origin
says I'm flat wrong). All thru Pagan the Guardian is saying 'I can hear
Lord British crying out for you now' and other taunts. I took the endgame
of U8 to mean: Avatar gets ultimate power. Goes to the 'Etheral Plane'
or Hall of Pillars as refered to below. Realizes his power and decides to
finally return to Britannia. Remember: The storyline said that the only
way home was to get the power of the Titans and to become yourself a
Titan. So he goes home in his nice new Avatar outfit!
I'm also basing this on the fact that an article I read last year with
Richard Garriot said that Pagan would take place on the Guardian's
homeworld, and that Ultima 9 would be kinda like Ultima 4 again, with
the Avatar learning to handle his new powers, and to actually become
some kinda god (hence the name Ultima 9 - Ascension). I think therefore
that the endgame of U8 was showing destroyed Britannia. Of course, this
could all be old news that has been changed 1000 times already.
: >Yeah, but we don't know how long the Avatar wandered about in the Hall of
: >Pillars; possibly enough time for the Guardian to get through and destroy
: >Britannia. Besides, Britannia had already suffered cataclysm during U7.5)
: >(Finally, What about Pagan? Perhaps that world was worthless, drained to
: >the Guardian; no loss to him if the few survivors no longer worship him).
: I would be surprised if the guardian actually destroys somewhere
: physically. Perhaps he will go so far as to eliminate all those who
: oppose him (such as those you saw in the ice world and in Praector
: Loth's tomb in UW2).
: Wouldn't it be more satisfying for the guardian to subvert the
: principles of a world and bring the Avatar into a Britannia that
: despises him? Hmmm... this actually could tie in quite well with the
: fellowship in U7.
An interesting note! He never actually did destroy all of Pagan either.
Just decided to subjugate the people to his will and his rule. But I
feel that Britannia was different. The Guradian originally wanted to
control Britannia thru the Fellowship. He got his ass kicked out by
the Avatar, and decided the best way to get back at the Avatar was to
temporarily put him 'out of the way' (Serpent Isle/Pagan) while he
wreaks complete havoc. I also think the Guardian KNEW that the Avatar
would become all powerful, and would return to Britannia of his own
power. So, he wastes it all ahead of time to get his revenge.
: Alistair
: --
: Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
--
Jim Vieira
jay...@earth.execpc.com
x93b...@wmich.edu
Skipping past most of the note.
Well first off the end of U8 is in all truth the Homeworld of the
Guardian and his race of peop...things. I chatted with Origin about this and
they confirmed that it was the Guardian's homeworld. Also you are correct
about the mastering of the new powers. With the new world thrusted in the
avatar's face he must learn the new laws and maintain virtue in a literal
hell. So it looks like Origin has brought back the virtues of U4....about
time!
According to the design team they as we speak writing the script for
U9(good luck..what a JOB)... It is supposed to be released at the end of 95.
Seems too long to wait for U9 but in the tradition of Ultima they spend 2
years to construct a successful Ultima.
BTW what does everyone think of the Avatar's new outfit. Looks kinda
cheesy! But who knows may look better!
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
W.M.U.
John Sabean
In article <1994Dec7.012539.25007@wmichgw>, x93b...@wmich.edu writes:
>In article <3c2ioi$h...@homer.alpha.net>, jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira) writes:
[A whole lotta stuff deleted]
> Well first off the end of U8 is in all truth the Homeworld of the
>Guardian and his race of peop...things. I chatted with Origin about this and
>they confirmed that it was the Guardian's homeworld. Also you are correct
>about the mastering of the new powers. With the new world thrusted in the
>avatar's face he must learn the new laws and maintain virtue in a literal
>hell. So it looks like Origin has brought back the virtues of U4....about
>time!
>
Then why does this guy, Brian Martin keep saying that U9 takes place in
Britannia???? I think Origin's plans keep changing every 5 minutes.
I have a feeling that placing the Avatar in the Guardian's homeworld would
be too much like Ultima 8, something Origin is deperately trying to avoid!
>
> According to the design team they as we speak writing the script for
>U9(good luck..what a JOB)... It is supposed to be released at the end of 95.
>Seems too long to wait for U9 but in the tradition of Ultima they spend 2
>years to construct a successful Ultima.
>
>
> BTW what does everyone think of the Avatar's new outfit. Looks kinda
>cheesy! But who knows may look better!
You mean, super 3-D ray-traced man? He looks like he's wearing some sort of
hoop skirt! Gotta love "I've got an SGI and no imagination" graphics!
Such a let down compared to that big red hand at the end of U7.5!
Barry A. Ramirez
In a previous article, doc...@eng.umd.edu (John Sabean) says:
>
>In article <1994Dec7.012539.25007@wmichgw>, x93b...@wmich.edu writes:
>>In article <3c2ioi$h...@homer.alpha.net>, jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira) writes:
>
>
>[A whole lotta stuff deleted]
>
>> Well first off the end of U8 is in all truth the Homeworld of the
>>Guardian and his race of peop...things. I chatted with Origin about this and
>>they confirmed that it was the Guardian's homeworld. Also you are correct
>>about the mastering of the new powers. With the new world thrusted in the
>>avatar's face he must learn the new laws and maintain virtue in a literal
>>hell. So it looks like Origin has brought back the virtues of U4....about
>>time!
>>
>Then why does this guy, Brian Martin keep saying that U9 takes place in
>Britannia???? I think Origin's plans keep changing every 5 minutes.
>I have a feeling that placing the Avatar in the Guardian's homeworld would
>be too much like Ultima 8, something Origin is deperately trying to avoid!
Very desperately. One of the Dragons had a chance to talk to Richard
Garriot at GenCon a few months ago, and one of the other Origin high-ups,
and both were rather apologetic about Pagan. Personally, I tend to believe
Brian Martin, as he has had a lot of interaction with us in recent weeks
trying to gather creative feedback on the U9 storyline. He keeps saying
that it takes place in Britannia because he's on the design team, and would
know. :) <grin>
Monomolecular Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
>> According to the design team they as we speak writing the script for
>>U9(good luck..what a JOB)... It is supposed to be released at the end of 95.
>>Seems too long to wait for U9 but in the tradition of Ultima they spend 2
>>years to construct a successful Ultima.
PS... FWIW, even though I'm really replying to the wrong person, this last
paragraph is true... Brian said that the actual plot creation of U9 was in
the preliminary stages now: where it will take place, main events, the
overall theme, and that sort of thing. That's why he is asking us (the
Dragons and gamers on c.s.i.p.g.r in general) for feedback, to see what
elements made a good Ultima in the past in hopes that they can do it again.
Incidentally, Ultima VI, if I recall, was released on time... <shrug>
--
_ .-=======/|--/| | Barry Ramirez Monomolecular Dragon -==(UDIC)==- |
/V------//@_/ //\~~~~ | bram...@cap.gwu.edu fq...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
/_--------\ \_|.-/ \__ | Ultima Dragons - Internet Chapter |
\--/\-------\/ /\|_/|| Disclaimer: My opinions change. Live with it. |
John Sabean
: PS... FWIW, even though I'm really replying to the wrong person, this last
: paragraph is true... Brian said that the actual plot creation of U9 was in
: the preliminary stages now: where it will take place, main events, the
: overall theme, and that sort of thing. That's why he is asking us (the
: Dragons and gamers on c.s.i.p.g.r in general) for feedback, to see what
: elements made a good Ultima in the past in hopes that they can do it again.
: Incidentally, Ultima VI, if I recall, was released on time... <shrug>
Couldn't let that last statement slide. I ordered U6 direct from the
company with next day mail. Its release date was delayed a week because
a bug existed that would not let one play it off the floppy. I even have
the 2 floppies for that particluar disk. One that was in the box, the
other was the good floppy.... Sorry, even U6 was late.....
(By a week, but it was late.....)
STEFAN M. THIEME
r Brown) writes:
>sm...@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (STEFAN M. THIEME) writes:
>>In article <D0B81...@uceng.uc.edu>, cjoh...@uceng.uc.edu (Christopher Meem
Jo
>>hnson) writes:
>>>In article <3bl8i9$2...@homer.alpha.net> jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira)
wr
>>ites:
>>>>Alistair Brown (A.D....@bradford.ac.uk) wrote:
>>>>
>>Assuming that IS his hand, and not just some inter-dimensional gate spell
>>disguised to LOOK like a hand (remember, we saw Big REd at the end of U7;
>>he was big, but not that huge).
>
>He's put on weight since then.
:)
>
?
>> No one opened the gate then! Of course, in UW2's endgame, Britannia looks
>> fine, and no mention of the destruction in u7.5. The Guardian lied.)
>
>Ummm... U7.5 was _after_ UW2 AFAIK.
Actally, I meant that in 7.5 there was no mention of any destruction of
Britannia that would have occurred in UW2. Now realistically, this is probably
because both games were under construction at the same time (more or less) and
by different people, but there wasn't even a throwaway line (like say, having
LB say in the dreamworld of u7.5 that Britannia was REALLY going to hell with
two major cataclysms in less than a year).
>
>>(okay, fine, you say...But Britannia WAS destroyed by the end of U8!
>>Yeah, but we don't know how long the Avatar wandered about in the Hall of
>>Pillars; possibly enough time for the Guardian to get through and destroy the
>>Britannia. Besides, Britannia had already suffered cataclysm during U7.5)
>>(Finally, What about Pagan? Perhaps that world was worthless, drained to the
>>Guardian; no loss to him if the few survivors no longer worship him).
>
>I would be surprised if the guardian actually destroys somewhere
>physically. Perhaps he will go so far as to eliminate all those who
>oppose him (such as those you saw in the ice world and in Praector
>Loth's tomb in UW2).
>
>Wouldn't it be more satisfying for the guardian to subvert the
>principles of a world and bring the Avatar into a Britannia that
>despises him? Hmmm... this actually could tie in quite well with the
>fellowship in U7.
I think by 9 Big Red is going to be tired of fooling around with the Avatar
and will start getting down to some serious combat. I mean, she/he/we/me
thwarted his plans in three adventures and then reached nigh-god stats in the
forth. If the Guardian doesn't get personally involved soon, the Avatar will
soon outclass Big Red.
>
>Alistair
>--
>Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
STEFAN M. THIEME
ites:
>
>: >(what about Uw2, you ask...when the Guardian fought his war on Britannian
>: > soil?
>: > fine, and no mention of the destruction in u7.5. The Guardian lied.)
>
>: Ummm... U7.5 was _after_ UW2 AFAIK.
See my previos post on this...
>
>I agree. If I remember correctly UW2 said something about 6 months after
>the destruction of the black gate, but U7.5 said something like 18months
>after, etc. I don't belive that UW2 is considered 'fodder' for the Ultima
>storyline anymore anyway.
>
>: >(okay, fine, you say...But Britannia WAS destroyed by the end of U8!
>
>This is my opinion also. Some have said the endgame of U8 was the Avatar
>in the Guardian's homeworld. I don't buy it (unless someone from Origin
>says I'm flat wrong).
According to the hint book (don't need 'em, just like to read it) it IS the
Guardian's homeworld. Of course, despite this, I still think it is Britannia.
> All thru Pagan the Guardian is saying 'I can hear
>Lord British crying out for you now' and other taunts. I took the endgame
>of U8 to mean: Avatar gets ultimate power. Goes to the 'Etheral Plane'
>or Hall of Pillars as refered to below. Realizes his power and decides to
>finally return to Britannia. Remember: The storyline said that the only
>way home was to get the power of the Titans and to become yourself a
>Titan. So he goes home in his nice new Avatar outfit!
>
>I'm also basing this on the fact that an article I read last year with
>Richard Garriot said that Pagan would take place on the Guardian's
>homeworld, and that Ultima 9 would be kinda like Ultima 4 again, with
>the Avatar learning to handle his new powers, and to actually become
>some kinda god (hence the name Ultima 9 - Ascension). I think therefore
>that the endgame of U8 was showing destroyed Britannia. Of course, this
>could all be old news that has been changed 1000 times already.
>
>: >Yeah, but we don't know how long the Avatar wandered about in the Hall of
>: >Pillars; possibly enough time for the Guardian to get through and destroy
>: >Britannia. Besides, Britannia had already suffered cataclysm during U7.5)
>: >(Finally, What about Pagan? Perhaps that world was worthless, drained to
>: >the Guardian; no loss to him if the few survivors no longer worship him).
>
>: I would be surprised if the guardian actually destroys somewhere
>: physically. Perhaps he will go so far as to eliminate all those who
>: oppose him (such as those you saw in the ice world and in Praector
>: Loth's tomb in UW2).
>
>: Wouldn't it be more satisfying for the guardian to subvert the
>: principles of a world and bring the Avatar into a Britannia that
>: despises him? Hmmm... this actually could tie in quite well with the
>: fellowship in U7.
>
>An interesting note! He never actually did destroy all of Pagan either.
>Just decided to subjugate the people to his will and his rule. But I
>feel that Britannia was different. The Guradian originally wanted to
>control Britannia thru the Fellowship. He got his ass kicked out by
>the Avatar, and decided the best way to get back at the Avatar was to
>temporarily put him 'out of the way' (Serpent Isle/Pagan) while he
>wreaks complete havoc. I also think the Guardian KNEW that the Avatar
>would become all powerful, and would return to Britannia of his own
>power. So, he wastes it all ahead of time to get his revenge.
>
>: Alistair
>: --
>: Email A.D....@bradford.ac.uk
>
>--
> Jim Vieira
> jay...@earth.execpc.com
>
>
Lehtinen Jussi
> >I would be surprised if the guardian actually destroys somewhere
> >physically. Perhaps he will go so far as to eliminate all those who
> >oppose him (such as those you saw in the ice world and in Praector
> >Loth's tomb in UW2).
> >
> >Wouldn't it be more satisfying for the guardian to subvert the
> >principles of a world and bring the Avatar into a Britannia that
> >despises him? Hmmm... this actually could tie in quite well with the
> >fellowship in U7.
I am sure the Avatar will not have a friendly welcome. It was he who left
Britannia at her hour of need for the Serpent Isle... He was not there when
the Guardian destroyed it. He has been lost for months, possibly years, in
adventures on Pagan (remember the timeline differences).
That is what the Guardian wanted to achieve, IMHO.
I can possibly see an U5-type of plot emerging from that... Yum.
--
Stonegate Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
**************************************************************
* J.H.L - Jussi H. Lehtinen (leht...@atki.helbp.fi) *
**************************************************************
* Of these things, I know nothing, and, if asked, will *
* not admit to any of it. *
**************************************************************
x93b...@wmich.edu
I would appreciate you respecting my facts I stated. I don't think
you should quickly judge it as false because of one person. What I wrote was
from the mouths of two Origin Representatives. They said that the ending
scene of U8 was the Guardian's homeworld. However like you stated Brian is
on the writing crew and says they change their minds every 5 minutes(joking).
I sure hope that it returns to Brittania. Mainly because there is a lot of
unsettled business there. Examples are ... Natasha ("girl" of the
Avatar)...a possible rebuilt Skara Brae by Horance, and also the so-called
destruction of the land boasted by the Guardian and Lord British while you
were in the dream realm in Serpent Isle. And of course what of your friends?
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
Barry A. Ramirez
In a previous article, x93b...@wmich.edu () says:
> I would appreciate you respecting my facts I stated. I don't think
>you should quickly judge it as false because of one person. What I wrote was
>from the mouths of two Origin Representatives. They said that the ending
>scene of U8 was the Guardian's homeworld.
<shrug> And Brian told us that U9 would most likely take place in
Britannia, that that was what they had been planning... I never meant to
imply that you were incorrect. I was just stating what I had personally
heard. For all I know you could be right, and Brian be telling us wrong...
(sorry, Brian, if you read this... can you clear this up?)
> However like you stated Brian is
>on the writing crew and says they change their minds every 5 minutes(joking).
No, that was the other person who said that.
>I sure hope that it returns to Brittania. Mainly because there is a lot of
>unsettled business there. Examples are ... Natasha ("girl" of the
>Avatar)...a possible rebuilt Skara Brae by Horance, and also the so-called
>destruction of the land boasted by the Guardian and Lord British while you
>were in the dream realm in Serpent Isle. And of course what of your friends?
Yes, exactly. I, for one, would like to see some sort of conclusion to the
Avatar / Nastassia story. Something that would give the Avatar real
emotional conflict: break Nastassia's heart (and his own) and fight to
rebuilt/defend/whatever Britannia, as he knows it is his duty to do, or
show ultimate Love / Compassion for her? That might make an interesting
storyline in itself... solely IMO, of course. That's the kind of thing
that I, as the player, would think long and hard about. Not some sort of
jump the platform and flip these levers in this order to get past the
Treacherous Machene O Doom and Death puzzle... one where I would have to
make a choice with my heart between two things that are equally moral. A
puzzle of the spirit and heart (a la U4) and not of things and places.
I digress horrendously.
If you interpreted my statement as saying that you were wrong, I sincerely
apologize. For all we know, we could be both wrong (tho if we are, I will
have completely lost faith in the Ultimas)...
Monomolecular Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
x93b...@wmich.edu
> In a previous article, x93b...@wmich.edu () says:
>
>> I would appreciate you respecting my facts I stated. I don't think
>>you should quickly judge it as false because of one person. What I wrote was
>>from the mouths of two Origin Representatives. They said that the ending
>>scene of U8 was the Guardian's homeworld.
>
> <shrug> And Brian told us that U9 would most likely take place in
> Britannia, that that was what they had been planning... I never meant to
> imply that you were incorrect. I was just stating what I had personally
> heard. For all I know you could be right, and Brian be telling us wrong...
> (sorry, Brian, if you read this... can you clear this up?)
Actually I hope Brian has the actual facts. I really don't want to
travel to some unknown land again. Pagan stunk and The Guardian's world
doesn't look like a joy also. The one thing I keep telling myself is that
the people I talked to are REPRESENTATIVES not the writing crew. Since U9 is
being wrote as we speak they can alter the story any way they please.
>
>> However like you stated Brian is
>>on the writing crew and says they change their minds every 5 minutes(joking).
>
> No, that was the other person who said that.
whoops.
>
>>I sure hope that it returns to Brittania. Mainly because there is a lot of
>>unsettled business there. Examples are ... Natasha ("girl" of the
>>Avatar)...a possible rebuilt Skara Brae by Horance, and also the so-called
>>destruction of the land boasted by the Guardian and Lord British while you
>>were in the dream realm in Serpent Isle. And of course what of your friends?
>
> Yes, exactly. I, for one, would like to see some sort of conclusion to the
> Avatar / Nastassia story. Something that would give the Avatar real
> emotional conflict: break Nastassia's heart (and his own) and fight to
> rebuilt/defend/whatever Britannia, as he knows it is his duty to do, or
> show ultimate Love / Compassion for her? That might make an interesting
> storyline in itself... solely IMO, of course. That's the kind of thing
> that I, as the player, would think long and hard about. Not some sort of
> jump the platform and flip these levers in this order to get past the
> Treacherous Machene O Doom and Death puzzle... one where I would have to
> make a choice with my heart between two things that are equally moral. A
> puzzle of the spirit and heart (a la U4) and not of things and places.
>
> I digress horrendously.
>
> If you interpreted my statement as saying that you were wrong, I sincerely
> apologize. For all we know, we could be both wrong (tho if we are, I will
> have completely lost faith in the Ultimas)...
>
Don't think anything of it. I think finals right now are giving me
pressure. This Avatar needs a trip to Spas on Buc Den for relaxation!
If Garriott keeps the idea of the engine for U8 I think he will lose
many Ultima fans. ME especially...though I will still play it, it would just
be to continue the story and nothing more. I sure hope Origin has people
reading all these suggestions here on the net. If not, well then, The
Guardian can have Brittania(like he would have any fun there!)
> Monomolecular Dragon
> -==(UDIC)==-
> --
> _ .-=======/|--/| | Barry Ramirez Monomolecular Dragon -==(UDIC)==- |
> /V------//@_/ //\~~~~ | bram...@cap.gwu.edu fq...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
> /_--------\ \_|.-/ \__ | Ultima Dragons - Internet Chapter |
> \--/\-------\/ /\|_/|| Disclaimer: My opinions change. Live with it. |
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
Brian Martin
>From: cjoh...@uceng.uc.edu (Christopher Meem Johnson)
>In article <3bl8i9$2...@homer.alpha.net> jay...@earth.execpc.com (Jim Vieira) writes:
>>Alistair Brown (A.D....@bradford.ac.uk) wrote:
>>
>>: The Hermit <s010...@cc.ysu.edu> writes:
>>: >The real question is, why does the Guardian want the avatar left alive?
>>: >There must be some reason why, when he has the avatar in the palm of his
>>: >hand, he doesn't just squeeze.
Play Ultima 9 and all will be revealed!
-Brian
(Now, was that a shameless hook in order to entice people to buy our games, or
what?)
x93b...@wmich.edu
Hey Brian can you give any hints on what is to come. What is
happening with the engine for the game. Anything you can tell us Ultima Fans
would be greatly appreciated!!!
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
Nightfox
: Britannia???? I think Origin's plans keep changing every 5 minutes.
: I have a feeling that placing the Avatar in the Guardian's homeworld would
: be too much like Ultima 8, something Origin is deperately trying to avoid!
Is it not possible that the Guardians homeworld is actually Britannia? After
playing and winning U8, it was obvious to me that the Avatar was back in
Britannia. I will rule out Blackthorn as the Guardian, because I think he
died somewhere in the Serpent Isle, but what about Sutek, remember him? It's
been a while since I've played U6, but I don't recall him dieing, and he was
a magic user, maybe he (or whoever the Guardian is) got hold of one of those
moonstones, and opened a gate to some other world. Built up his/her power
and is looking to get revbeenge on Brittania, or the Avatat, or both for
some wrong, either real or imagined. I remember reading that this was going
to tie in all the Ultimas and bring the series to a close. Ultima X, might
not even be called that according to LB.
Anyway whatever the answer is, we'll find out soon enough, and in the
meantime, it's fun to speculate:)
--
.__________________________________________________________________________.
|Internet: pfle...@scu.edu.au |
| One hour from now WING COMMANDER 3 will be one hour closer to release |
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Lehtinen Jussi
> If Garriott keeps the idea of the engine for U8 I think he will lose
> many Ultima fans. ME especially...though I will still play it, it would just
> be to continue the story and nothing more. I sure hope Origin has people
> reading all these suggestions here on the net. If not, well then, The
> Guardian can have Brittania(like he would have any fun there!)
The main trend seems to be among the dragons that the older the engine, the
better. With U8 and U7(.5) I do agree - an isometric viewpoint is a travesty.
But, considering Origin's recent infatuation with high-end heavy systems,
a downgrade to a simpler engine is not likely. :-(
I wonder how large a % of development time is spent on storyline and how much
on graphics nowadays.
--
Stonegate Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
**************************************************************
* J.H.L - Jussi H. Lehtinen (leht...@atki.helbp.fi) *
**************************************************************
* Mieti ennen kuin mailaat - ISOVELI VALVOO ! *
John Sabean
In article <D0LF...@scu.edu.au>, pfle...@scu.edu.au (Nightfox) writes:
>: Then why does this guy, Brian Martin keep saying that U9 takes place in
>: Britannia???? I think Origin's plans keep changing every 5 minutes.
>: I have a feeling that placing the Avatar in the Guardian's homeworld would
>: be too much like Ultima 8, something Origin is deperately trying to avoid!
>
>Is it not possible that the Guardians homeworld is actually Britannia? After
>playing and winning U8, it was obvious to me that the Avatar was back in
>Britannia. I will rule out Blackthorn as the Guardian, because I think he
>died somewhere in the Serpent Isle, but what about Sutek, remember him? It's
>been a while since I've played U6, but I don't recall him dieing, and he was
>a magic user, maybe he (or whoever the Guardian is) got hold of one of those
>moonstones, and opened a gate to some other world. Built up his/her power
>and is looking to get revbeenge on Brittania, or the Avatat, or both for
>some wrong, either real or imagined. I remember reading that this was going
>to tie in all the Ultimas and bring the series to a close. Ultima X, might
>not even be called that according to LB.
>Anyway whatever the answer is, we'll find out soon enough, and in the
>meantime, it's fun to speculate:)
Actually, I doubt it is Sutek. The Guardian is unable to enter Britannia
at the beginning of U7.... Sutek should have already been there.
As for Blackthorn being the Guardian, that is actually more plausable.
Someone who was both banished from Britannia AND would have a personal
vendetta against the Avatar.....
Not to mention he would have had over 100 years to amass the amount of power
that the Guardian has as well as destroy the worlds he has already destroyed.
(I doubt the Blackthorn is the Guardian.... its just a thought....)
x93b...@wmich.edu
You know I can't remember where I heard this but I recently heard
that the end of the entire Ultima series is supposed to have a shocking
ending. I can't seem to image what it could be. Some thoughts I have
considered is Lord British actually possessing a warped mind after so much
time in Brittania. Afterall he would be a formidible foe. He is nearly
immortal...(thanks to Richard). Any ideas?
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
Harry Sung
>As for Blackthorn being the Guardian, that is actually more plausable.
>Someone who was both banished from Britannia AND would have a personal
>vendetta against the Avatar.....
>Not to mention he would have had over 100 years to amass the amount of power
>that the Guardian has as well as destroy the worlds he has already destroyed.
>(I doubt the Blackthorn is the Guardian.... its just a thought....)
I didn't manage to finish Ultima 5 due to some reason I cannot remember. Can
anyone give me a summary of what happened in the end?
Many thanks.
--
"The only way for knowledge workers to maintain their skills & knowledge, and
be effective human capital is to engage in lifelong learning" -- R. Crawford
* * *
Where on Earth provides more for such opportunities than in Academia ......?
x93b...@wmich.edu
> In article <3ch1nm$d...@pobox.csc.fi> leht...@atki.helbp.fi (Lehtinen Jussi) writes:
>>From: leht...@atki.helbp.fi (Lehtinen Jussi)
>>Subject: Re: The guardians hand strength (was Re: Ultima Underworld III?)
>>Date: 12 Dec 1994 08:30:46 GMT
>
>>x93b...@wmich.edu wrote:
>>> If Garriott keeps the idea of the engine for U8 I think he will lose
>>> many Ultima fans. ME especially...though I will still play it, it would just
>>> be to continue the story and nothing more. I sure hope Origin has people
>>> reading all these suggestions here on the net. If not, well then, The
>>> Guardian can have Brittania(like he would have any fun there!)
>
> arcade action that appeared in U8 to be in U9. What was it about the U8 engine
> that you didn't like? You say that if we keep the same engine, we will loose
> Ultima fans, but we're trying to make U9 the best Ultima ever by returning to
> the traditions that made Ultima such a popular series. So, what do you feel is
> more important, the engine, or the story and the principles of the game?
> Personally, I don't care if the graphics are great: If the story isn't any
> good, then the game isn't any good.
>
Well first off I think I better explain my complaint. I personally
liked the 45 degree tilt on the "Z" plane. It gave Ultima a new look and
feel. I believe many will agree this gave the game more zest. I enjoyed the
ability to finally jump and especially the ability to climb! It opened more
possibilities for adventure. However the thing that made the perspective a
pain was the combat. Almost all that played the game will probably agree
with me on this. It was hard to hit the enemy. Most of the time the player
would be perfectely lined up with the monster and he just, how do you say,
MISS! Now don't get me wrong. I loved the combat style in Ultima 8. I
liked the ability to finally be ON MY OWN for combat...not just pressing the
"C" button and having the Avatar run after the monster and slay him/her.
Finally having to time your shot and use combos such as a kick/slash was
impressive.
Finally the other thing that annoyed me was if you dropped say a
shirt on the ground. The thing would block the Avatar from moving. Now
realistically speaking a shirt would not stop a person. A wall or big piece
of furniture would stop a human. So goes with the always annonying
overstepping doorways. It seemed that if you were not carefull the avatar
seemed to 90% of the time walk past the doorway you wanted him to go through.
Either that or he would do an annoying mini step all the way through the
doorway.
However even with these complaints I agree totally with you about how
story is the fundamental piece of the game. Without it I think Ultima would
have been lost years ago. Let's face it you guys at Origin have a great
imagination. I tip my hat off to you and anxiously await your genious in
Ultima 9!
>>better. With U8 and U7(.5) I do agree - an isometric viewpoint is a travesty.
>>But, considering Origin's recent infatuation with high-end heavy systems,
>>a downgrade to a simpler engine is not likely. :-(
>
> I think that most people will agree that the most loved games in the Ultima
> series are Ultima 4 and Ultima 5. However, I personally don't think that these
> games are considered to be the best because of their respective engines. I
> think that they're the best because of the story lines, the level of
> complexity, and their playability. U4 and U5 grabbed players, pulled them into
> a rich and inviting world and didn't let them go until they had finished the
> game. If, in my opinion, recent Ultimas haven't been as appealing as the
> classics, its because they have gradually slipped away from the foundations
> that were built in Ultima 4, not because the point of view, or because the
> player has to use a mouse.
>
Speaking of which. Has Origin an plan to release a updated version
of the Classic I-V Ultimas? With the new graphics and new input ability?
> While story and playability are, again, in my opinion, of the utmost
> importance, we can't simply disregard aspects of the game like graphics. If we
> were to release a game in 1996 that featured the best story ever produced in
> an RPG, but had tiled landscapes and stick figures, the game would greatly
> suffer. Therefore, we must make sure that the graphics of the game are as good
> as we can make them without hindering the playability of the game.
>
> Something that the player does not seems to be aware of is the fact that
> asking which aspect gets more consideration, art or story, is a moot question.
> We have artists doing art, and designers doing story. The issues of art and
> stroy do not interfere with one another.
>
> The real problem as I see it at Origin is not that we spend too much time
> working on, or worrying about art; its that we spend too much time woprrying
> about what is cool. We should not be concerned with what is cool. We should
> worry about what is fun. Let me give you an example: I have seen programmers
> and designers work on a set scene for a week or two, tweaking it over and over
> to make sure that its just right. They'll spend all of this time and attention
> on one scene that is very impressive, but that the player will see only once.
> Then, when its all over, everybody says "Wow, that's so cool!",but the problem
> is that you only see it once. After that, you go on and probably never think
> much about that set scene. You, the player, are probably dealing with trying
> jump on that damned platform and cursing me and everybody else that works at
> Origin. Instead of worrying about "cool", we need to concentrate on fun.
> Gripping stories, challenging puzzles, interesting characters, and moral
> delimmas; that's what Ultimas need, and that's what we're striving for in
> Ultima 9.
>
> Any comments or questions are, as usual, welcome.
>
>>I wonder how large a % of development time is spent on storyline and how much
>>on graphics nowadays.
>
> Like I said above, these two processes run similtaneously and do not interfere
> with one another.
>
>>--
>>Stonegate Dragon
>> -==(UDIC)==-
>
>
>
> -Brian, a guy from Origin
Do you plan to have any interesting famed Easter Eggs in Ultima 9
like you did in previous Ultimas?
- Greg, a guy from Internet (and anxiously awaiting U9 <G>)
Greg Basso
x93b...@wmich.edu
Nightfox
: Actually, I doubt it is Sutek. The Guardian is unable to enter Britannia
: at the beginning of U7.... Sutek should have already been there.
: As for Blackthorn being the Guardian, that is actually more plausable.
: Someone who was both banished from Britannia AND would have a personal
: vendetta against the Avatar.....
You're right, but I think that book found in Serepnt Isle was just to say:
"Here's what happened to Blackthorn, this is one loose end tied up"
: Not to mention he would have had over 100 years to amass the amount of power
: that the Guardian has as well as destroy the worlds he has already destroyed.
: (I doubt the Blackthorn is the Guardian.... its just a thought....)
One other thought that occured to me on the theme of the Guardian being from
Brittania is that maybe the Guardian also went on the Quest of The Avatar,
and succeeded, but was snubbed by Lord British, in favor of the Avatar
who got the job. Brian did mention that they wanted to make the game like
Ultima 4, or at least in the tradition of Ultima 4, maybe this is a clue to
who the Guardian is?
One other thing about the Guardian coming from Brittania is the missing
Moonstone. At the start of U6 LB has a moonstone, as does the Avatar, in U7,
only LB has one which he gives to the Avatar at the start of U7, where is
the missing moonstone?
--
.__________________________________________________________________________.
|Internet: pfle...@scu.edu.au |
| Whether it's God or the bomb, it's just the same and it's only fear |
| under another name - MAX Q |
David M. Behr
: I didn't manage to finish Ultima 5 due to some reason I cannot remember. Can
: anyone give me a summary of what happened in the end?
: Many thanks.
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!
ok....here goes....
In u5, the codex tells the avatar that "beyond shades egress, in the
center of the underworld, lies the gate to the core of the world (or
something like this.) When thou art ready, thou should go there, and call
forth teh word "veramocor" to unlock the gate. That which the world hath
lost awaits thy coming."
So the avatar treks there, and there is an area of darkness in the
center. That's why you need the...amulet? Yes I think so. So that you
can find you're way thru the darkness. Bascially, you find another
dungeon. All the way in the bottom of this dungeon, the Avatar enters a
room that looks like a bedroom, with a mirror in it. The mirror draws
the Avatar and his party inside of it, where they find LB! He has been
waiting them, and he asks "Did you bring my sandalwood box?" (The avatar
better have it!!!) When the Avatar gives LB the box, LB opens it and
inside is a red moonstone. He uses the moonstone to create a red
moongate and the avatar, his party, and LB all leave and return to Britannia.
When they get back, LB confronts Balckthorn about what a tyrant he had
become. But he offers Blackthorn an option--instead of having to be
looked down upon by everyone in the country, and constantly ridiculed and
blacklisted (well maybe that's stretchin it a bit but you get the idea)
LB offers Blackthorn a way to get to another world. He throws down the
red moonstone and causes a red moongate to appear. Blackthorn walks
through it, and that's it.
___________
/ ^ \
_ /\ / \ /\ _
( ) /__\__/___\__/__\ ( )
--+-- / \(_) (_)/ \ --+--
Rainbow Dragon | | /\ o /\ | | 'Name, Job, Health.'
-==[UDIC]==- | \ / \(_)/ \ / |
| \/____\_/____\/ |
\ \ /
\ / \ /
---------
Robert Shannon Gregg
important! I personally think the orthogonal engine is fine, tho' it did
run a bit slow on my machine, but that's fine too, as I think Origin's
focus on "great" new gaming technology (like WC3) is terrific. You guys are
pushing the envelope, as it were. (Gratuitous plug: I'm on the 2nd CD of WC3,
and it is *fabulous*! If you see anyone on that team, thank 'em for me!
Wowwowwow. Too bad I'm traveling home for Christmas - it's either family or
3 more CDs of kitty kicking. Hm... nah, I already bought the tickets <g>).
The only problem I have is one of scale. Each successive Ultima has narrowed
the amount of the world you can see at one time, it seems. I personally
thought that Ultima VI had about the right scope - you could see a fair
distance, but not too far - about what you might actually see. The further I
can see, the more I get the sense of vastness of the world. Plus, I can
actually see where I'm going :). U7 and U7.5's engine was okay, but I thought
U8's scope was too small. When I was exploring, I always felt like it would
be very easy to miss things just on the edge of the screen, and wound up
walking baaaack and fooooorth just to find the places I needed. Even in the
towns, it was tough to place landmarks if you were lost. I wish there was
some way to, say, scale in or out. I know some people have suggested using
two different scales for town and country like U4; that's probably outdated.
I dunno, I just wish there was a way to realistically see what the Avatar
would see, or some approximation thereof. Zoom would probably be hard to do,
and I don't see that it would add that much extra value. Dunno. Tough call.
-Robert,
Underworld Dragon
--=(UDIC)=--
(have a Merry Christmas!)
Thomas Speck
: One other thing about the Guardian coming from Brittania is the missing
: Moonstone. At the start of U6 LB has a moonstone, as does the Avatar, in U7,
: only LB has one which he gives to the Avatar at the start of U7, where is
: the missing moonstone?
The moonstone is back on Earth, lying on the table beneath the Avatar`s
Computer (You see it there in the beginning of U7). I think Avatar was
a little fast, as he ran to the appearing moongate and forgot it home.
Multicolored Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Speck, CS-Student | Life is very difficult for a little
| subatomic particle in the great
tspe...@rz.uni-hildesheim.de | big universe (T. Pratchett)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ji...@teleport.com
[...]
>One other thing about the Guardian coming from Brittania is the missing
>Moonstone. At the start of U6 LB has a moonstone, as does the Avatar, in U7,
>only LB has one which he gives to the Avatar at the start of U7, where is
>the missing moonstone?
It's destroyed in the prologue of Savage Empire. (Worlds of Ultima I --
comes between U6 and U7.)
-Jim Little (ji...@teleport.com)
Brian Martin
>From: leht...@atki.helbp.fi (Lehtinen Jussi)
>Subject: Re: The guardians hand strength (was Re: Ultima Underworld III?)
>Date: 12 Dec 1994 08:30:46 GMT
>x93b...@wmich.edu wrote:
>> If Garriott keeps the idea of the engine for U8 I think he will lose
>> many Ultima fans. ME especially...though I will still play it, it would just
>> be to continue the story and nothing more. I sure hope Origin has people
>> reading all these suggestions here on the net. If not, well then, The
>> Guardian can have Brittania(like he would have any fun there!)
The U9 engine is based on the U8 engine. However, don't look for all of the
arcade action that appeared in U8 to be in U9. What was it about the U8 engine
that you didn't like? You say that if we keep the same engine, we will loose
Ultima fans, but we're trying to make U9 the best Ultima ever by returning to
the traditions that made Ultima such a popular series. So, what do you feel is
more important, the engine, or the story and the principles of the game?
Personally, I don't care if the graphics are great: If the story isn't any
good, then the game isn't any good.
>The main trend seems to be among the dragons that the older the engine, the
>better. With U8 and U7(.5) I do agree - an isometric viewpoint is a travesty.
>But, considering Origin's recent infatuation with high-end heavy systems,
>a downgrade to a simpler engine is not likely. :-(
I think that most people will agree that the most loved games in the Ultima
series are Ultima 4 and Ultima 5. However, I personally don't think that these
games are considered to be the best because of their respective engines. I
think that they're the best because of the story lines, the level of
complexity, and their playability. U4 and U5 grabbed players, pulled them into
a rich and inviting world and didn't let them go until they had finished the
game. If, in my opinion, recent Ultimas haven't been as appealing as the
classics, its because they have gradually slipped away from the foundations
that were built in Ultima 4, not because the point of view, or because the
player has to use a mouse.
While story and playability are, again, in my opinion, of the utmost
>I wonder how large a % of development time is spent on storyline and how much
>on graphics nowadays.
Like I said above, these two processes run similtaneously and do not interfere
Nightfox
: Computer (You see it there in the beginning of U7). I think Avatar was
: a little fast, as he ran to the appearing moongate and forgot it home.
: Multicolored Dragon
: -==(UDIC)==-
: --------------------------------------------------------------------
: Thomas Speck, CS-Student | Life is very difficult for a little
: | subatomic particle in the great
: tspe...@rz.uni-hildesheim.de | big universe (T. Pratchett)
: --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Krait Philippe SDC p8277
> arcade action that appeared in U8 to be in U9. What was it about the U8 engine
> that you didn't like? You say that if we keep the same engine, we will loose
> Ultima fans, but we're trying to make U9 the best Ultima ever by returning to
> the traditions that made Ultima such a popular series.
I don't have the time to respond to your long (and interesting) post, but basically, beside the arcade aspects (quite bad, especially coupled with
the very long save and restore game times), I didn't like the very limited
field of vision. How can you explain that the Avatar can only see 5 meters
ahead, and manipulate objects that the player (not himself) can see.
I rather liked the twisting corridors and the scenery (very nice graphics and
colours, why did those storm mess all that with a fade to gray?), but I can't
put myself in the role of the Avatar if I am blind as a mole.
You should, at least:
- Implement a rotating view (4 angles would be enough, SE as before,
SW, NE and NW).
- Allow the viewpoint to shift (looking ahead), as long as you
show what is in the Avatar's point of view.
- Add an automapper, or at least maps that you can buy. Personnaly,
I like automapping. Mapping by hand was very nice when all you had
were tiles and orthogonal walls. If the automapper is well done (for
example, not showing secret passages before they have been found),
limiting mapping to the Avatar's (not the player's) point of view,
it would, IMHO, really improve the game.
SVGA would also be nice. I don't mind having the scenery on only part of the
screen, but bags and backpacks just took too much screen space. Open one
and you couldn't see anything else, much less do something really
interesting.
That's all for this time. By the way, this is just about the engine (if it
truly stays on the same basis). Of course I would like to have epic (and
moral) adventures like in Ultima IV and V.
--
__________________
/___ _______ ___/\ **********************************************
\__/ /\_____/ /\__\/ * Le Chant des Cendres nous reunit, *
/ /_/_ / / / * Forgeons les Armes de la Vie, *
/___ /\ / / / * Boutons le Dragon hors d'Ici... *
\__/ / //_/ / * *
___/ / / \_\/ * Clepsydre Dragon *
/____/ / * -==(UDIC)==- *
\____\/ **********************************************
Brian Martin
>From: x93b...@wmich.edu
>Subject: Re: The guardians hand strength (was Re: Ultima Underworld III?)
> Well first off I think I better explain my complaint. I personally
>liked the 45 degree tilt on the "Z" plane. It gave Ultima a new look and
>feel. I believe many will agree this gave the game more zest. I enjoyed the
>ability to finally jump and especially the ability to climb! It opened more
>possibilities for adventure. However the thing that made the perspective a
>pain was the combat. Almost all that played the game will probably agree
>with me on this. It was hard to hit the enemy. Most of the time the player
>would be perfectely lined up with the monster and he just, how do you say,
>MISS! Now don't get me wrong. I loved the combat style in Ultima 8. I
>liked the ability to finally be ON MY OWN for combat...not just pressing the
>"C" button and having the Avatar run after the monster and slay him/her.
>Finally having to time your shot and use combos such as a kick/slash was
>impressive.
The problems that you mentioned with combat in U8, missing the eney too much,
had nothing to do with the perspective. The ability to hit the enemy was based
on the Avatar's dexterity. Since the release of U8, it was become obvious that
the problem of missing too much was something that needed to be addressed in
U9. Hopefully, we'll get it right this time.
> Finally the other thing that annoyed me was if you dropped say a
>shirt on the ground. The thing would block the Avatar from moving. Now
>realistically speaking a shirt would not stop a person. A wall or big piece
>of furniture would stop a human. So goes with the always annonying
>overstepping doorways. It seemed that if you were not carefull the avatar
>seemed to 90% of the time walk past the doorway you wanted him to go through.
>Either that or he would do an annoying mini step all the way through the
>doorway.
Yeah, dropping anything inside of a buidling would stop the Avatar. This is
due to the fact that nearly everything is at least one cell thick, and the
walls were the same hieght as the Avatar. Therefore, if the Avatar tried to
step up onto something inside of a house, he'd bump his head on the roof and
not be able to step onto the object, and would then be stopped. Solution: In
U9, the walls will be higher. Duh. (Boy, we're geniuses, huh?)
The problem of dropping an item behind a wall, never to be retrieved will also
be solved in U9. I don't yet know how we're going to handle that, but we can't
have that problem in U9 like we did in U8.
>However even with these complaints I agree totally with you about how
>story is the fundamental piece of the game. Without it I think Ultima would
>have been lost years ago. Let's face it you guys at Origin have a great
>imagination. I tip my hat off to you and anxiously await your genious in
>Ultima 9!
Thanks
> Speaking of which. Has Origin an plan to release a updated version
>of the Classic I-V Ultimas? With the new graphics and new input ability?
Not that I'm aware of.
> Do you plan to have any interesting famed Easter Eggs in Ultima 9
>like you did in previous Ultimas?
Of course!
>
>- Greg, a guy from Internet (and anxiously awaiting U9 <G>)
Y'all take care,
-Brian
Brian Martin
>From: rgr...@GS201.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (Robert Shannon Gregg)
>Subject: Re: The guardians hand strength (was Re: Ultima Underworld III?)
>Brian, I agree with most of your points - the story is definitely very
>important! I personally think the orthogonal engine is fine, tho' it did
>run a bit slow on my machine, but that's fine too, as I think Origin's
>focus on "great" new gaming technology (like WC3) is terrific. You guys are
>pushing the envelope, as it were. (Gratuitous plug: I'm on the 2nd CD of WC3,
>and it is *fabulous*! If you see anyone on that team, thank 'em for me!
>Wowwowwow. Too bad I'm traveling home for Christmas - it's either family or
>3 more CDs of kitty kicking. Hm... nah, I already bought the tickets <g>).
WC3 is an amazing game. As impressive as the movie sequences are, the combat
is what has me stuck to the game. Don't worry though, WC3 isn't keeping the U9
team from working. No, really.
>The only problem I have is one of scale.
-clipped-
. I wish there was
>some way to, say, scale in or out. I know some people have suggested using
>two different scales for town and country like U4; that's probably outdated.
>I dunno, I just wish there was a way to realistically see what the Avatar
>would see, or some approximation thereof. Zoom would probably be hard to do,
>and I don't see that it would add that much extra value. Dunno. Tough call.
>-Robert,
>Underworld Dragon
> --=(UDIC)=--
>(have a Merry Christmas!)
You wish that we could scale in and out? Well, your wishes have been, or will
be, granted! U9 will employ a system much like the ones from U4 and U5 where
you see the Avatar moving about in the world on foot, horseback, or ship, in
one scale, and then drop down into a close up view for towns, castles, and
combat. Of course, all of this will be done in stunning, U9 graphics. Also,
the U9 world will be far bigger in SVGA than u7 - U8.
Wishing everyone happy holidays,
-Brian
Alexx Kay
screen will be rotatable (like Sim City 2000)? That would remove most of
the annoyances that I've heard about.
Alexx
Al...@netcom.com
Ignorance is bliss, but it'll never replace sex.
[Seen on a Nancy Button, na...@genie.slhs.udel.edu]
Rick K. Wong
>
>
> You know I can't remember where I heard this but I recently heard
>that the end of the entire Ultima series is supposed to have a shocking
>ending. I can't seem to image what it could be. Some thoughts I have
>considered is Lord British actually possessing a warped mind after so much
>time in Brittania. Afterall he would be a formidible foe. He is nearly
>immortal...(thanks to Richard). Any ideas?
>
>
> Greg Basso
> x93b...@wmich.edu
>
is from another world and should be as least as powerful as the avatar.
The fact that he keeps calling the avatar for help may be a hoax that he
created himself for his entertainment. If this hypophysis is true then
the Guardian has always been in Britainia since day 1 and the scene at the
end of U7.5 that the Guardian was blocked from entering Britainina was
merely another trick.
Just a wild thought.
Rick
--
Rick K. Wong
'93 CBR 600F2