Wizardry 8: Monsters match your level?
Loopy
characters?
If so, I think that makes the game less fun. It seems completely
unrealistic.
deluxe
news:5fiK7.6920$QC5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Wiz 7 was like that, I never finished it because of it. I've never played
Wiz 8 so I'm not sure if it's like that.
deluxe
Wiz 7 was like that, I never finished it because of it. I've never played
Christopher Tong
Wiz 7 was not like that. Wiz 7 just used monster levels to guide your
party to where they should be going, plotwise. F'rex, if you imported
your game from Wiz 6, after a number of reloads, you would have noticed
that all roads really do lead to New City...
Chris
Adam West
>Are the monsters you face in the game matched to the level of your
>characters?
No. I've been slaughtered by monsters that were way too high (I was clearly
going the wrong way) and had groups that were way too low. The game tells you
how the monster compares to your party if you have the skill to do so. In
general, I find it pretty well balanced.
deluxe
news:3BF9CFBD...@polbox.com...
> > Wiz 7 was like that, I never finished it because of it. I've never
played
> > Wiz 8 so I'm not sure if it's like that.
>
> Wiz 7 was not like that. Wiz 7 just used monster levels to guide your
> party to where they should be going, plotwise. F'rex, if you imported
> your game from Wiz 6, after a number of reloads, you would have noticed
> that all roads really do lead to New City...
Are you sure about that? I remember using an editor to hack up my
character's level just to test this theory. The monsters got powerful as
the level of my party went up.
Jason McCullough
wrote:
It adjusts the enemies somewhat to match your level, but it never
increases/decreases the level beyond the minimum or maximum for the
area. You're never going to see a level 10 enemy in the Monastery,
and you'll never see a level 2 enemy in Arnika, for example.
Jason McCullough
blortkar...@yahoo.com
Remove "blort" from the front of my email address to contact me.
jfine
> area. You're never going to see a level 10 enemy in the Monastery,
> and you'll never see a level 2 enemy in Arnika, for example.
I'm sure this is an RTFM, but I don't have the manual handy: How do I see
the monsters' levels? Thanks.
Tom Tweedy
<ct...@polbox.com> writes
>
>
>deluxe wrote:
>
>> Wiz 7 was like that, I never finished it because of it. I've never played
>> Wiz 8 so I'm not sure if it's like that.
>
>Wiz 7 was not like that. Wiz 7 just used monster levels to guide your
>party to where they should be going, plotwise. F'rex, if you imported
>your game from Wiz 6, after a number of reloads, you would have noticed
>that all roads really do lead to New City...
>
>Chris
In a way you're right Chris, but when you transferred your characters
over from 6 to 7 your party started the OTHER side of the sleeping poppy
field near the priestly tower [forgot the right word], and the road went
north ALL the way around the map to New Town. Not a very comfortable
road to new starters, even WITH the Marasama Blade.
Tom
Gav
wrote:
>Are the monsters you face in the game matched to the level of your
Unrealistic?
I suppose magic and monsters _are_ realistic...? ;-)
Gav
--
Real email is gavan(hyphen)martin(dot)moran(at)ubs(dot)com
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my own, not my employers
"Du musst Amboss oder Hammer sein"
Adam Russell
"Tom Tweedy" <t...@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T2rPrgB0...@lancedal.demon.co.uk...
Mine started to the north of the Umpani town. That coming from the friends
with Bela ending.
Michael W. Daniels
news:ehtK7.6056$b7.1...@news.itd.umich.edu:
Right click on them. As long as someone has a few points in mythology,
you can see their level and hitpoints. More skill in mythology adds more
info.
--
Michael W. Daniels | "The thunder was ominous-sounding, much
dan...@ling.ohio-state.edu | like the sound of a thin sheet of metal
Department of Linguistics | being shaken backstage during the storm
218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play."
Jeff Beardwell
Jeff
Lizard
wrote:
Right-click on the monster. (Hold down 'ctrl' to stop their animation
if you can't quite get it). The amount of data you receive depends on
the highest Mythology score in the party. Unlike older games,
mythology is a vital skill in Wiz 8.
Mythology saves lives and spell points. Knowing the Flurping Wallowers
are immune to insanity and fear is very valuable. Knowing whether
you're facing Lesser Spotted Snorklewhackers or Greater Overlord
Snorklewhackers alters your strategy considerably.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
Lizard
gavan-martin...@remove.ubs.this.com.invalid (Gav) wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:24:11 -0500, "Loopy" <salted...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Are the monsters you face in the game matched to the level of your
>>characters?
>>
>>If so, I think that makes the game less fun. It seems completely
>>unrealistic.
>
> Unrealistic?
>
> I suppose magic and monsters _are_ realistic...? ;-)
>
Actually, it occurs to me that this just reflects the way paper&pencil
games are run. When the PCs in my game started out, they met orcs and
kobolds and so on. Now that they're higher level, they're fighting
gnolls and ogres and the like;eventually, they'll move on to dragons
and demons. In city adventures, at low levels, they scuffle with
street thugs and city guards;at high levels, they meet powerful
assassins and members of the King's Elite Defensive Force.
It would be no fun at all if the green dragon I've established lives
in the campaign area were to just show up and kill them now;likewise,
they would be bored if tonight's adventure consisted solely of killing
eight 1 hit die goblins, even if goblins ARE common in the area.
Lizard
<blortkar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It adjusts the enemies somewhat to match your level, but it never
>increases/decreases the level beyond the minimum or maximum for the
>area. You're never going to see a level 10 enemy in the Monastery,
>and you'll never see a level 2 enemy in Arnika, for example.
>
That's good to know. So what is the maximum level for Arnika? I sort
of left it early for Trynton, where the encounters seem to be quite
bit a easier, except for certain sprites...grrr...
Ykalon Dragon
wrote:
Sorry but you are wrong. The monsters were matched to the area in 7. I
fought the same critters in New City at level 50 that I fought at
level 3.
jfine
> Mythology saves lives and spell points. Knowing the Flurping Wallowers
> are immune to insanity and fear is very valuable. Knowing whether
> you're facing Lesser Spotted Snorklewhackers or Greater Overlord
> Snorklewhackers alters your strategy considerably.
Very cool, thank you! Whenever I've cast a spell and it had no effect,
I've been wondering is it because I didn't use a high enough power level,
did the monster resist that particular cast, or is the monster entirely
immune? Sounds like mythology could have answered those questions. :)
Incidentally, I find it kind of odd that you can put slimes to sleep and
drive robot androids mentally insane. But then again, ants are carrying
around sacks of gold, so anything is possible. :)
Thanks again.
Erik Seligman
My Arnika Road experience seems to indicate the opposite-- 400hp
monsters (which can kill any PC but my lead fighter in one bite) are
blocking my movement! And when I run away from them, groups of 80hp
bandits slaughter me instead. I lowered the game difficulty to 'Easy'
and am still barely surviving.
My party is around 7th lvl... was I supposed to have levelled up
more before exiting the initial monastery? Or is there some other area
I was supposed to find before heading out on the road? Or did I just
set up the party badly? (I have a Lord, a Ranger, a Gadgeteer, a
Cleric, a Psion, and a Mage...)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Seligman, esel...@aracnet.com / esel...@ichips.intel.com
Speaking for myself, not Intel or Aracnet.
who...@wherever.com
:> If so, I think that makes the game less fun. It seems completely
:> unrealistic.
:>
: My Arnika Road experience seems to indicate the opposite-- 400hp
: monsters (which can kill any PC but my lead fighter in one bite) are
: blocking my movement! And when I run away from them, groups of 80hp
: bandits slaughter me instead. I lowered the game difficulty to 'Easy'
: and am still barely surviving.
: My party is around 7th lvl... was I supposed to have levelled up
: more before exiting the initial monastery? Or is there some other area
: I was supposed to find before heading out on the road? Or did I just
: set up the party badly? (I have a Lord, a Ranger, a Gadgeteer, a
: Cleric, a Psion, and a Mage...)
I've only played the demo so far.. but if the monastery is the same
as in the demo, then yes you shoulda levelled at least to level 8-9.
Tip: cast your buffs - Armorplate, Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield etc
_before_ venturing into battle. Remember to Web, Terrorize and Sleep
your opponents. Gotta say, I really hadn't bothered with such "crowd
control" spells in pretty much any other RPG..
Jason McCullough
Yeah, there doesn't appear to be any really useless spells in this one
so far. Fear, of all things, the most useless spell ever in most
RPGs, actually has some use here.
deluxe
> in the campaign area were to just show up and kill them now;likewise,
> they would be bored if tonight's adventure consisted solely of killing
> eight 1 hit die goblins, even if goblins ARE common in the area.
It would also be no fun when you find an uber two-handed sword + 10 and they
in turn give every monsters in the game that same sword. I'm not saying
Wiz8 does that, it's just an extreme example why I don't like level-matching
monsters. If your boss gives you 50% pay raise and then you find out
minimum wage and standard of living also went up by 50%.
You need to be able to tell if your party is getting powerful and it's not
going to be fun if every creature you face becomes a "fight for your life"
situation.
Jason McCullough
wrote:
It's not that way, though. The battles aren't impossible, but they're
challenging until you reach the maximum level for an area. This tends
to get rid of boring battles, also; you get a decent amount of xp for
most combats.
lizard
> My party is around 7th lvl... was I supposed to have levelled up
> more before exiting the initial monastery? Or is there some other area
> I was supposed to find before heading out on the road? Or did I just
> set up the party badly? (I have a Lord, a Ranger, a Gadgeteer, a
> Cleric, a Psion, and a Mage...)
>
I left the Monastery at about seventh level, and my party is identical
to yours except that I have a fighter instead of a ranger. I made it to
Arnika relatively simply.
a)Look for creatures ahead of you, and run.
b)Use mind affecting spells, esp. insanity, on large mobs of bandits.
c)Don't be afraid to run.
d)Use tactics -- try to keep your back to a wall if you can't get away.
e)Run a lot.
f)Make sure you've found every useful goodie and bonus in the monastery.
Clean it out before taking the door.
g)After each fight -- save. Rest. If you're awakened, reload and rest
again.
h)Be sure to run.
I basically ran (shift key down) all the way to Arnika, and only got
caught by one relatively small bandit horde and some plants. I ended up
being able to flee the plants even after they initiated combat. Three
full moves is usually enough to get the monsters to leave you alone.
Mythology is your friend! Knowing what the monsters can't be hurt by is
VITAL!
Don't forget to check the tactical display and compare it to the radar.
You may not be facing the way you think you're facing.
USE those potions.
Never travel without Enchanted Blade or Armorplate if you can help it.
Bless at the beginnng of each combat.
Toxic Fumes, Terror, and Insanity can be a lot more useful than
Fireball. Keep them from attacking you, while your fighter wear them
down.
This ain't "F,F,F,P,P,P" any more. This is the most tactically intensive
first-person RPG I've ever encountered.
Eric Harding
>I've only played the demo so far.. but if the monastery is the same
>as in the demo, then yes you shoulda levelled at least to level 8-9.
>Tip: cast your buffs - Armorplate, Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield etc
>_before_ venturing into battle. Remember to Web, Terrorize and Sleep
>your opponents. Gotta say, I really hadn't bothered with such "crowd
>control" spells in pretty much any other RPG..
Yeah, crowd control is the key to this game. My poor fairie mage is
beginning to wonder how she became an enchanter from EQ, lol.
Eric
Christopher Tong
Tom Tweedy wrote:
> >deluxe wrote:
> >Chris
Well, you had to pass through the field to get to New City, which was
fairly easy. OTOH, slaughtering your way to the top of the Dane Tower
didn't work very well, because of the fireball traps from Hell.
However, with a point or two in Mind Control (which you got in the
Tower) you could walk straight through the field.
As for the other two beginnings, you either started out just outside
Nyctalinth or outside Ukpyr, both of which led to quests that sucked you
into New City anyway.
Chris
Amarok
Well, lets look at any kind of sport. You play at the lowest league
and become better and better in your league. After a while you will
advance. In the new league most teams are way better than you and you
lose many matches. Some years later you beat all teams in the new
league also, once again you advance and again you will have problems
in the next league and so on.
I wonder how boring it would be if you would stay all the time in the
same league beating the hell out of your opponents...
Actually, I don't get the point why to complain about monsters, which
keep challenging. I wouldn't bother to buy a game which is only in the
beginning challenging and later as simple as most RPGs which came out
the last years.
About the boss example: Of course I would prefer to get only more
money, but its not a game, no challenge I want to have. I'm quite
satisfied with having more money. However, I'm not really saitisfied,
except for a few moments, to have the best party on the university.
Amarok
deluxe
> and become better and better in your league. After a while you will
> advance. In the new league most teams are way better than you and you
> lose many matches. Some years later you beat all teams in the new
> league also, once again you advance and again you will have problems
> in the next league and so on.
Nope. How many players out there can stand toe to toe with Shaq? Kobe?
The talent gap between Lakers and Wizards is huge. Take a look at Kobe when
he was a rookie, and take a look at him right now.... a big difference.
Adam Russell
just like you do. It also makes sense that the monsters in a certain area
would only grow stronger to a limit because after that they might want to
move on, just like you do. The monsters that stay in that area are the ones
that just don't have the ambition to move on.
Raldor
news:vcukvtgpg5ck8v1nh...@4ax.com...
I don't know the maximum, but I ran into a group of 6 level 12 or 13s last
night. Most of the stuff spawning was the same as my first trip there, so
I'd guess these were pretty close to the high end.
Cabel Blacke
> This ain't "F,F,F,P,P,P" any more. This is the most tactically intensive
> first-person RPG I've ever encountered.
Agreed. I can't think of a more tactical first-person CRPG. Great tips by
the way, especially the one about running away ;))
--CB
Lord Gwynz
wrote:
<snip>
> My Arnika Road experience seems to indicate the opposite-- 400hp
>monsters (which can kill any PC but my lead fighter in one bite) are
>blocking my movement! And when I run away from them, groups of 80hp
>bandits slaughter me instead. I lowered the game difficulty to 'Easy'
>and am still barely surviving.
> My party is around 7th lvl... was I supposed to have levelled up
>more before exiting the initial monastery? Or is there some other area
>I was supposed to find before heading out on the road? Or did I just
>set up the party badly? (I have a Lord, a Ranger, a Gadgeteer, a
>Cleric, a Psion, and a Mage...)
I was feeling quite overconfident with my 4 member, level 7 party
since they pretty much bitch slapped everything quite easily in the
monastery, so I thought they were more than ready to head out to town.
Man was I so wrong, they literally had to run for their lives down
Arnika Road. I ran from plants, a pack of 15+ bandits/rogues, and a
pair of sorceresses that kept summoning +300hp elemental pets and
throwing fireballs. And that chameleon spell didn't seem to help at
all, my party got spotted easily from a distance every time, and I
tried ducking in the woods behind trees and whatnot too. That was
insane, but I finally did make it through to town, so there's still
some hope for my mageless, fairy fighter for a tank party, plus an elf
ranger, a human Alchemist, and a hobbit Priest.
Grim Reaper
have leveled up a few times on the upper levels! I was still battling oozes
and sneekers but a complete new hybrid with a lot more hit points.
"Loopy" <salted...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5fiK7.6920$QC5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Are the monsters you face in the game matched to the level of your
> characters?
>
cutterjohn
news:5fiK7.6920$QC5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Are the monsters you face in the game matched to the level of your
> characters?
>
> If so, I think that makes the game less fun. It seems completely
> unrealistic.
>
>
...in a way, I sort of like an amount of level matching in RPGs. However, I
have also found that sometimes monster
groups could, pretty effectively, kick my but at unusual points in an area
that I had been previously fairing ok in.
I have found out 2 things about Arnika for decent xps:
1. it seems that if the guard/other good NPC kill dark savant's minions
you get xps. (a ~level 6 party of
mine got ~5500xps from 5 gunner savants waxed by the HLL (mostly.)
2. get the stupid savant's minions in a doorway where only one at a time
can come at you, and you probably
could clean up with a relatively low level party. (seems to work with
troopers & gunners.)
exception to observation #2: firt time in Arnika, went to bank, then left
to find, 5 savant troopers, 5 savant gunners,
5 of some annoying savant underlings doing ~20pts/hit with the half moon
shaped polearms, and 5 higardi bandits.
Other NPC help consisted of 2 lay brothers(useless.) Needless to say my
party was wiped out in short order.
Also, I LOVE the combat system. Wizard & Warriors' was annoying. If I
wanted a firt person shooters, I'd
be playing half-life. (HINT: I also miss turn based strategy games. RTS
suck. Diablo's annoying, etc. Even
Baldur's Gate combat system is annoying.)
Grim Reaper
instead of walking was the only way to get around a battle or 2. Although
there a few time this had no effect on the out come because you ended up
running into a larger group of baddies (running from 6 Higardi Roustabouts
and a mage to run smack into a total of 32 various Ants and crabs!!!)
The problem is if you run by them too often you don't get the experience
necessary to beat things later. I found that I was always looking for a
corner,doorway,wall that I could back into if I had to fight, thus
protecting at least 1 or more sides.
BTW: How do the bandits... who seem to be only poised with a dagger actually
get to tag my middle and sometimes my back row characters?? I have double
checked and my party was facing the right way at the time.
"Cabel Blacke" <nu...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:zNTK7.2664$fm5.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Mark Blunden
news:Q5gL7.63983$6b.31...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
> It finally took me a few attempts before I realized that repeatedly
running
> instead of walking was the only way to get around a battle or 2. Although
> there a few time this had no effect on the out come because you ended up
> running into a larger group of baddies (running from 6 Higardi Roustabouts
> and a mage to run smack into a total of 32 various Ants and crabs!!!)
I remember the mage - the difficulty with him was to run *towards* him fast
enough that I could hit him with disabling magic before his ranged magic
attacks paralysed more than half my group.
> The problem is if you run by them too often you don't get the experience
> necessary to beat things later. I found that I was always looking for a
> corner,doorway,wall that I could back into if I had to fight, thus
> protecting at least 1 or more sides.
Absolutely essential. Just after the bandits and mage, I had to rest to
recover mana. I was ambushed by a large group of bats, who surrounded my
party and wiped out my mages and bishop. After quickloading, I backed into a
tight corner in hopes of going unnoticed and rested again. The same bats
ambushed me, but by keeping them to the front I could defeat them easily.
> BTW: How do the bandits... who seem to be only poised with a dagger
> actually get to tag my middle and sometimes my back row characters?? I
> have double checked and my party was facing the right way at the time.
Are you sure they weren't using throwing daggers? They seem to favour them.
--
Mark.
mar...@btinternet.com
* Right now, I need aphorisms like I need holes in my heads
Ed Bruce
news:l1ukvtcqcdngug8mu...@4ax.com:
> Actually, it occurs to me that this just reflects the way paper&pencil
> games are run. When the PCs in my game started out, they met orcs and
> kobolds and so on. Now that they're higher level, they're fighting
> gnolls and ogres and the like;eventually, they'll move on to dragons
> and demons. In city adventures, at low levels, they scuffle with
> street thugs and city guards;at high levels, they meet powerful
> assassins and members of the King's Elite Defensive Force.
Not in my games. You generally had to go out of your way to meet high level
monsters. Unless of course you had a reputation or pissed off a daemon or
two. High level monsters where always rare and it made it a challenge to
level. They couldn't just stay in town to level up, they had to look for a
challenge. Thats what I liked and Wiz8 doesn't have to do that for me to
enjoy it, but I would like a more open system passed on Wiz8 that allowed
me to adventure and play for fun. I don't like games that end.
Ed Bruce
news:ehtK7.6056$b7.1...@news.itd.umich.edu:
> Jason McCullough <blortkar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> area. You're never going to see a level 10 enemy in the Monastery,
>> and you'll never see a level 2 enemy in Arnika, for example.
>
> I'm sure this is an RTFM, but I don't have the manual handy: How do I
> see the monsters' levels? Thanks.
Along these lines. A quick glance through the Manual didn't explain the
three numbers I see when encountering monsters. What would 5/0/1 mean or
3/0/0? Thanks.
Adam West
I think it means Total Number/Number in Range/Number in View (that last two
may be switched). Watch the numbers as the monsters take their turns. You'll
see what I mean.
Papa Geno
mean.