Aces Over Europe: Review wanted
Adrian Hurt
I'm considering buying Aces Over Europe, but before I hand over any money
I'd like to know if the game is any good. Could some of you who have this
game please comment on it?
. How realistic is the flight model?
. How does it generate missions? Are there a few fixed missions, randomly
generated missions, campaigns? Can you edit your own missions?
. Is the artificial intelligence any good? How smart are enemy pilots?
How smart are friendly pilots?
Compare it to Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe if possible. SWOTL's
flight model isn't bad but it isn't great. There are a few fixed
missions, tours of duty with consecutive generated missions, and
campaigns where you have some strategic control as well. Friendly
pilots are smart enough to be able to do some harm, and scores are
rated as a team effort - in one of my early games, I didn't shoot down
anything, but still got a small score because I had kept some enemy
fighters occupied long enough to prevent them from doing any harm, and
eventually some of my comrades came and finished them off.
--
"Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott
Adrian Hurt | JANET: adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk
UUCP: ..!uknet!cee.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk
David A. Masten
>
>I'm considering buying Aces Over Europe, but before I hand over any money
>I'd like to know if the game is any good. Could some of you who have this
>game please comment on it?
Quickest way to review it is to say it is Aces of the Pacific, but in
Europe, with the planes that theater entails, a higher res 320x400 mode
that gets rid of the jaggies, enemy AI (well, at least ability to kill
you) that has been souped up to unbelievable levels, and a somewhat
better flight model. But it appears you probably haven't played AotP,
so...
>. How realistic is the flight model?
Way better than SWotL's. Quickly on SWotL: the vertical performance of
the planes is almost nil, the horizontal is incredibly overoptimistic.
So you have to fly in the horizontal. Totally unrealistic. Frankly
SWotL's flight models are horrible. But you asked about AOE :-) Still
optimistic, presumably for better gameplay. Angle of Attack almost
doesn't exist. For instance, you can't land with a nose up attitude.
Some planes perform way too well (the Spits and the best of the
FW190's). But if gameplay is the consideration, not bad. Vertical
performance is decent, about the right loop speeds and stall speeds
(though it doesn't seem to model accelerated stalls). Each plane is
unique, so you'll want to boom&zoom (energy fight) in the Me262 or P47
and use angles (stall fighting) with the Spit.
>. How does it generate missions? Are there a few fixed missions, randomly
> generated missions, campaigns? Can you edit your own missions?
>. Is the artificial intelligence any good? How smart are enemy pilots?
> How smart are friendly pilots?
Alas, nothing like the SWOTL campaign. You have the choice of about 10
different mission types where the enemies are randomly placed. Usually
you can choose your plane, number in flight, enemies, etc. There are
also some number (30,40?) "historic" missions that I think are pre-set
to mimic some real action. Last, is the "career" mode, where you sign
up with some squadron and get the missions in seqential order. *IF* you
survive, which I found near-impossible. In career mode, you get moved
around with time, and get access to newer planes. Or at least you did
with AotP, I didn't get that far in AOE! As it only covers April '44 to
war's end, that may not be the case in AOE. Also, your insignificant
flight has no impact on the big picture. As long as you survive, your
next mission doesn't depend on your last.
You can't edit missions, except if you are a flight leader (promotion
comes with time) you can choose formation, and loadout. You can also
set up temporary waypoints whilst in flight, but from a large scale map
that makes it hard to be accurate. So I guess it has *some* editing
capability. But you can't change your targets.
AI:
Better than AOE, probably better than SWOTL. The main thing is, these
guys are *crack* shots. They do unbelievable things. They'll hit you
nose on from a distance where he is a pixel. And from replays, I've
seen them pull hi negative-G's and hit me with 90 degree deflection
shots as I whizzed by in what was a head-on pass. Simply unrealistic.
I always set games to highest difficulty. I backed it down in AOE.
Other than that, they do have some intelligence. They'll energy fight
if in an energy fighter, angles fight in an angles fighter. Get target
fixation on one guy, and the other will get on your tail. This game was
just abuot impossible for me to win at!
That's about it. Basically, I'd wait for 1942 Pacific Air War, which
*should* be the best WWII sim ever. If you really want the Europe
theater, I suppose AOE is it. You can probably get it off the net at a
decent price.
Dave
Ismo Antero K{rkk{inen
>In article <CpJD7...@cee.hw.ac.uk> adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes:
>>
>>I'm considering buying Aces Over Europe, but before I hand over any money
>>I'd like to know if the game is any good. Could some of you who have this
>>game please comment on it?
>>. How does it generate missions? Are there a few fixed missions, randomly
>> generated missions, campaigns? Can you edit your own missions?
>>. Is the artificial intelligence any good? How smart are enemy pilots?
>> How smart are friendly pilots?
>Alas, nothing like the SWOTL campaign. You have the choice of about 10
>different mission types where the enemies are randomly placed. Usually
>you can choose your plane, number in flight, enemies, etc. There are
>also some number (30,40?) "historic" missions that I think are pre-set
>to mimic some real action.
In historic missions you usually have just one or two more waypoints
and possibly a nasty situation compared to normal mission of the same
type.
Most of the mission types are quite similar. I'd divide them to three
categories: escort, ground attack and normal combat.
By normal combat I mean that you don't have to worry about others. Just
get the enemies down (they may be fighters and/or bombers). In escort
missions you have to see that friendlies don't get shot down (bombers,
usually) and with ground attack I mean attacking anything that doesn't
fly. Ships, trains, convoys, airbases, radar sites, V1 launch sites and
harbours.
In practice, the lack of ground texture makes ground attack missions
hard, since you can't tell how high you are. Note that careers contain
lots of ground attack missions, especially in allied side. When you are
under 1000ft, those silly dots appear, but they aren't of much use. After
I had flown enough ground attack missions, I had developed few simple
rules that enabled me to survive without crashing to the ground because
of flying too low, but this makes the missions repetitive and boring.
> Last, is the "career" mode, where you sign
>up with some squadron and get the missions in seqential order. *IF* you
>survive, which I found near-impossible.
Surviving requires plenty of practice and preferably a good plane. I'm
speaking from experience.
> In career mode, you get moved
>around with time, and get access to newer planes. Or at least you did
>with AotP, I didn't get that far in AOE! As it only covers April '44 to
>war's end, that may not be the case in AOE.
You don't get access to new planes. You may be transferred, but I don't
recall having to switch planes in the middle of the campaign. At least
it doesn't happen often. You stick with the plane the squadron has at
the beginning of the career. (Your plane may change if you get transferred
to a squadron that uses different plane than the previous one.)
> Also, your insignificant
>flight has no impact on the big picture. As long as you survive, your
>next mission doesn't depend on your last.
I have a faint notion that a failed mission would be given to you again,
but I cannot be sure. I used the unofficial patch (aoerea12.zip) which
changed the armloads etc. and also made the planes behave better (more
realistic, IMHO), so I had some long range strikes where I didn't have
any rockets or bombs (this was caused by the patch) and thus I had the
same mission few times in a row. Though even if you were succesful, you
still might have the same mission type n times in a row with only minor
changes.
>You can't edit missions, except if you are a flight leader (promotion
>comes with time) you can choose formation, and loadout. You can also
>set up temporary waypoints whilst in flight, but from a large scale map
>that makes it hard to be accurate. So I guess it has *some* editing
>capability. But you can't change your targets.
You can start a career with rank that makes you the flight leader, but it
is true that the editing capabilities are inadequate. Also you can't
choose to bypass any preset waypoints. The only use of setting waypoint
lies in the fact that you can avoid the enemy fighters that lie along
the route and get to the target with bombs and rockets. And if the flak
damages your plane, you can use the waypoint again to avoid the fighters
if you don't want to fight in a damaged plane.
>AI:
>Better than AOE, probably better than SWOTL. The main thing is, these
>guys are *crack* shots. They do unbelievable things. They'll hit you
>nose on from a distance where he is a pixel.
The aoerea12.zip mentioned above fixes this by making the enemies fire
with less probability of hitting. Thus you get warned.
> And from replays, I've
>seen them pull hi negative-G's and hit me with 90 degree deflection
>shots as I whizzed by in what was a head-on pass. Simply unrealistic.
>I always set games to highest difficulty. I backed it down in AOE.
As has been mentioned before, Dynamix admitted they made the computer
pilots stretch the limits of the model a bit and they stretched it too
much. Unrealistic, but it means you have to stay alert all the time
and think where you are flying. Just keep on turning your head. Note
that the visibility from the cockpit is poor and there are areas you
cannot see without switching to external view.
>Other than that, they do have some intelligence. They'll energy fight
>if in an energy fighter, angles fight in an angles fighter.
Usually, yes. In Dogfight an Ace -missions it is easy to fool the german
aces flying Me-262 to go into angles tactics and the rest is routine.
> Get target
>fixation on one guy, and the other will get on your tail. This game was
>just abuot impossible for me to win at!
If you can't hit your target quickly, go for the guy that't coming after
you. If you're alone, it can be frustrating, but it can be made.
>That's about it. Basically, I'd wait for 1942 Pacific Air War, which
>*should* be the best WWII sim ever. If you really want the Europe
>theater, I suppose AOE is it. You can probably get it off the net at a
>decent price.
I'd say unless you want the Europe theater really bad, wait for 1942PAW.
Personally, I won't touch AOE even with a 10 ft pole anymore.
>Dave
Ron Vutpakdi
|> mas...@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) writes:
|> > In career mode, you get moved
|> >around with time, and get access to newer planes. Or at least you did
|> >with AotP, I didn't get that far in AOE! As it only covers April '44 to
|> >war's end, that may not be the case in AOE.
|>
|> You don't get access to new planes. You may be transferred, but I don't
|> recall having to switch planes in the middle of the campaign. At least
|> it doesn't happen often. You stick with the plane the squadron has at
|> the beginning of the career. (Your plane may change if you get transferred
|> to a squadron that uses different plane than the previous one.)
|>
Actually, in career mode in AOE, you can get switched to newer planes in
the middle of a campaign. Happened to me twice (I've played 1 British and
1 German campaign). Towards the middle of the last British campaign, the
squadron my pilot was in got switched from Spitfire XIV's to Typhoons (or
was it Tempests? Whatever is the newer one). In the German career, at some
point the squadron got switched (again, in mid campaign) from FW190A's to
FW190D's. In the first case, I wasn't terribly pleased (I love Spits), but
in the second, it was great.
Ron
--
******************************************************************************
Ron Vutpakdi * Schlumberger Well Services
vutp...@houston.wireline.slb.com *
Jason Fawcett
>The main thing is, these
>guys are *crack* shots. They do unbelievable things. They'll hit you
>nose on from a distance where he is a pixel. And from replays, I've
>seen them pull hi negative-G's and hit me with 90 degree deflection
>shots as I whizzed by in what was a head-on pass. Simply unrealistic.
>I always set games to highest difficulty. I backed it down in AOE.
I 2nd the *crack* shots. When you fly head to head against the Aces, you
die. I like AOE. The only thing that makes me mad is they make the
bad guys plane better. If I fly against a ACE and I pick the Me-262
and give him the flying brick (P-47 ) I still can't catch him. How
can a P-47 out run a twin engine jet. When they get the Me-262, I
can't even stay in their zip code.
Tero P. Mustalahti
>In article <1994May10.1...@cs.joensuu.fi>, i...@cs.joensuu.fi (Ismo Antero K{rkk{inen) writes:
>|> mas...@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) writes:
>|> > In career mode, you get moved
>|> >around with time, and get access to newer planes. Or at least you did
>|> >with AotP, I didn't get that far in AOE! As it only covers April '44 to
>|> >war's end, that may not be the case in AOE.
>|>
>|> You don't get access to new planes. You may be transferred, but I don't
>|> recall having to switch planes in the middle of the campaign. At least
>|> it doesn't happen often. You stick with the plane the squadron has at
>|> the beginning of the career. (Your plane may change if you get transferred
>|> to a squadron that uses different plane than the previous one.)
>|>
> Actually, in career mode in AOE, you can get switched to newer planes in
>the middle of a campaign. Happened to me twice (I've played 1 British and
>1 German campaign). Towards the middle of the last British campaign, the
>squadron my pilot was in got switched from Spitfire XIV's to Typhoons (or
>was it Tempests? Whatever is the newer one). In the German career, at some
>point the squadron got switched (again, in mid campaign) from FW190A's to
>FW190D's. In the first case, I wasn't terribly pleased (I love Spits), but
>in the second, it was great.
I can confirm this too. I was in a squadron which had Bf-109G and it was
switched to model K in the middle of the campagn. The same thing happened
with Mosquitos, the anti-shipping model was switched to regular (I don't
remember the model names). And the thing above with the Spit happened to
me also. I just wonder why? Maybe towards the end of the war the allies
didn't have so much use for an air superiority fighter, and therefore
the plane was switched to more efficient ground attack plane Tempest.
Tempest certainly isn't better dogfighter than Spit XIV, at least not in the
AOE.
One thing I hate in AOE (and AoP) is that when the enemy shoots you down,
all the other planes and also the bombers you may be escorting get shot
down too, even if there was only ONE enemy plane against three friendly
planes. That is HIGHLY unrealistic, there should be some kind of system
to quickly evaluate what happens after you're down.
But when your actions don't effect the larger scale in any way, it doesn't
really matter... I wiped off Amsterdam road bridge three times in a week...
God those Germans are FAST builders!
How to survive the missions: cheat, play the same mission several times.
Sometimes even this doesn't help, e.g. when you're trying to survive with
a Mosquito against F-190's...Mosquito is really a fighter-BOMBER.
>Ron
>--
>******************************************************************************
>Ron Vutpakdi * Schlumberger Well Services
>vutp...@houston.wireline.slb.com *
Tero P. Mustalahti
Tero P. Mustalahti
It can't. Are you sure you had full throttle?
Against an ace you generally need a better aircraft. With a Spit or a
Mustang against a Bf-109G you won't have any problems, no matter what kind
of ace the opponent is.
P-47 isn't that bad really. In Aces of Pacific I used to shoot down Zeros
with it. Well, I used intermediate settings.
Tero P. Mustalahti
Peter Trott
: >
: >I'm considering buying Aces Over Europe, but before I hand over any money
: >I'd like to know if the game is any good. Could some of you who have this
: >game please comment on it?
: That's about it. Basically, I'd wait for 1942 Pacific Air War, which
: *should* be the best WWII sim ever. If you really want the Europe
: theater, I suppose AOE is it. You can probably get it off the net at a
: decent price.
Nah. Stick with SWotL until something better comes along. Unless your
ability to deal with the AOE frustration factor is high. SWotL is the
best ETO flight sim, if fun and relaxation are your goals. AOE is too
much like work, and, for me at least, computer sims are a way of
relaxing from work.
I am surprised that all of the upcoming whiz-bang WWII flight sims seem
to be oriented (pun) to the PTO. The best planes were over Europe, on
both sides. (Fire Control, stand by!) If I had my wishes, LucasArts
would update SWotL with a better graphics engine, flight models, new
planes, better ground targets (a la AOE), etc. But, if wishes were
horses, I'd have a P-51D.
Peter Trott (pe...@pdx.ncube.com)
thompson@.onramp.net
Just out of curiosity, why DID lucasarts drop SWOTL?
A few cheesy add-ons, and the game is history.
It has a lot of potential, esp. w/ the advances in hardware that has come
out since it's release....................
David A. Masten
>
> Just out of curiosity, why DID lucasarts drop SWOTL?
>out since it's release....................
The same designer was responsible for X-Wing (Larry Holland), so he was busy!
Don't know if he also did Tie Fighter. Maybe he's free to move on to
another flight sim. No clue as to what's in the works at LucasArts.
Me, I'd like to see an X-WIng with a SWOTL dynamic campaign, and the
Millenium Falcon (sort of X-Wings equivalent of the B17 in SWOTL in
that you can man the guns).
Dave
Jason Fawcett
>Nah. Stick with SWotL until something better comes along. Unless your
>ability to deal with the AOE frustration factor is high. SWotL is the
>best ETO flight sim, if fun and relaxation are your goals. AOE is too
>much like work, and, for me at least, computer sims are a way of
>relaxing from work.
AOE is easy to fly, and is very adjustable from beginner to expert ACE.
I was able to fly and shoot down planes in less than a hour. I have
Mig-29 if you want work get it. With Mig-29 I have had over 30 hours
just in flight school, and still can't qualify from Red Flag training.
AOE has problems, but it doesn't stop it from being my best game. Most
of my problems with AOE, is they give the bad guys super-charged planes
that can take a lot of damage. They also make the bad guys crack shots
when you go head-to-head. If I can get on their 6, they are toast.
>I am surprised that all of the upcoming whiz-bang WWII flight sims seem
>to be oriented (pun) to the PTO. The best planes were over Europe, on
>both sides.
That is true, but I take a P-38 over a P-51 any day. In AOE a P-38 can
take a licking and keep on ticking. With a P-51 one sucker punch and
you are down and out.
Carlos Lourenco
>of my problems with AOE, is they give the bad guys super-charged planes
>that can take a lot of damage. They also make the bad guys crack shots
>when you go head-to-head. If I can get on their 6, they are toast.
Actually, according to Dynamix, what they did to make the pilots
crack shots is make sure they don't fire at you unless they have a
greater than 90% chance of hitting. This also makes their ammo
last a lot longer. Plus that AI is lethal on head ons! Actaully I
already ditched it from my system.
I spend all my time playing AirWarrior against real opponents--lot
more fun (and expensive <g>).
Incidently, Delphi will be picking up Air Warrior so it won't be
exclusive to Genie. It should be cheaper through them 20 hrs fer
20 bucks, and they have 9600 baud access. How's there service, any
experiences from Delphi users? Kesmai's getting a lot of money
poured into them to expand the product.
Anyone know if another Art of The Kill video is coming out from SH?
Los
Mark Batchelor
: >AOE has problems, but it doesn't stop it from being my best game. Most
: >of my problems with AOE, is they give the bad guys super-charged planes
: >that can take a lot of damage. They also make the bad guys crack shots
: >when you go head-to-head. If I can get on their 6, they are toast.
The AOE hacks fix some of the disadvantages, ftp to wuarchive i think.
: Incidently, Delphi will be picking up Air Warrior so it won't be
: exclusive to Genie. It should be cheaper through them 20 hrs fer
: 20 bucks, and they have 9600 baud access. How's there service, any
: experiences from Delphi users? Kesmai's getting a lot of money
: poured into them to expand the product.
damn straight Kesmai is pard', when will Delphi offer AW hook-up?
: Anyone know if another Art of The Kill video is coming out from SH?
its been out for months already.
Comet Comes eternal
--
Mark Batchelor
Colorado Springs, Colorado U.S.A.
Freelance Technical writer/designer/researcher
Internet: "mbat...@cscns.com"
Compuserve: 73642,734
Carlos Lourenco
Mark,
>damn straight Kesmai is pard', when will Delphi offer AW hook-up?
Perhaps as soon as June 1993.
>
>: Anyone know if another Art of The Kill video is coming out from SH?
>
>its been out for months already.
What's the topic on this one? I liked the first one which came ou I
think before christmas.
Los
gary cooper
>>damn straight Kesmai is pard', when will Delphi offer AW hook-up?
>Perhaps as soon as June 1993.
D'oh! you mean I've been on GEnie for a year and didn't have
to be? :> :>
>>: Anyone know if another Art of The Kill video is coming out from SH?
>>
>>its been out for months already.
>What's the topic on this one? I liked the first one which came ou I
>think before christmas.
I've only seen the one release - and it IS pretty good (if you
can get it for $20 like I did)
--
gary cooper (not the dead one) coo...@digex.com
"A Spit on yer six is better than dyin' of cancer"
666th Fighter Squadron; #1225 - "Moggy"
Internet Daemons !2!
Tero P. Mustalahti
>In article <Cq0GC...@utu.fi> term...@utu.fi (Tero P. Mustalahti) writes:
>>>That is true, but I take a P-38 over a P-51 any day. In AOE a P-38 can
>>>take a licking and keep on ticking. With a P-51 one sucker punch and
>>>you are down and out.
>>The durability of a P-38 won't help you against those agile & heavily armed
>>Fw-190's. Or at least that's what I have experienced.
>>Tero P. Mustalahti
>I'd rather have a P-47 over a P-38 or a P-51 anyday. Those things were
>HEAVILY armed and could take a beating like you would not believe. A
>fitting predecessor to the A-10, eh?
You're right, it was an incredible ground assault plane and probably
also a very good bomber interceptor, but for dogfighting it maybe is not
agile enough and on the other hand not so fast it could use hit-and-run
tactics. But I don't have any first hand information... just what I've read
and learned by playing the simulators, which don't always simulate the reality
that well.
By the way, are there many P-47's still in flying condition?
> Quan Truong
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Quan Truong \\ Sometimes I think the surest sign //
>A.K.A. Fishbone \\ that intelligent life exists //
>A.K.A. Fish \\ elsewhere in the universe is that //
>TRUONGQ97%CS...@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil \\ none of it has tried to contact //
>United States Air Force Academy \\ us. -Calvin & Hobbes //
> \\=====================================
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tero P. Mustalahti
Tero P. Mustalahti
>peter@pubs1 (Peter Trott) writes:
>>I am surprised that all of the upcoming whiz-bang WWII flight sims seem
>>to be oriented (pun) to the PTO. The best planes were over Europe, on
>>both sides.
Towards the end of the war there were some pretty good planes in the Pacific
too, like Ki-84 and Ki-100. In real life the Japanese just didn't have any
fuel for them. And most of their factories were also just ruins.
The American planes were essentially the same as in Europe.
>That is true, but I take a P-38 over a P-51 any day. In AOE a P-38 can
>take a licking and keep on ticking. With a P-51 one sucker punch and
>you are down and out.
The durability of a P-38 won't help you against those agile & heavily armed
Fishbone
>>take a licking and keep on ticking. With a P-51 one sucker punch and
>>you are down and out.
>The durability of a P-38 won't help you against those agile & heavily armed
>Fw-190's. Or at least that's what I have experienced.
>Tero P. Mustalahti
I'd rather have a P-47 over a P-38 or a P-51 anyday. Those things were
HEAVILY armed and could take a beating like you would not believe. A
fitting predecessor to the A-10, eh?
Quan Truong
Michael Walker
>mas...@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) writes:
>: In article <CpJD7...@cee.hw.ac.uk> adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt)
>(stuff deleted)
>
>Nah. Stick with SWotL until something better comes along. Unless your
>ability to deal with the AOE frustration factor is high. SWotL is the
>best ETO flight sim, if fun and relaxation are your goals. AOE is too
>much like work, and, for me at least, computer sims are a way of
>relaxing from work.
>
its like freight-trains in the sky! It has nice features, but once you've
played a game like Red Baron or AOTP it seems really primitive.
>I am surprised that all of the upcoming whiz-bang WWII flight sims seem
>to be oriented (pun) to the PTO. The best planes were over Europe, on
>both sides. (Fire Control, stand by!) If I had my wishes, LucasArts
>would update SWotL with a better graphics engine, flight models, new
>planes, better ground targets (a la AOE), etc. But, if wishes were
>horses, I'd have a P-51
>Peter Trott (pe...@pdx.ncube.com)
>
Aren't people tired of flying P-51's yet! Wow, every game every made for
the European theater has at least 3 or 4 of the same aircraft, and the P-51
is probably the most prevelant. I've already got several flight sims with
Mustangs, and I couldn't get excited about yet another, with only a marginally
better flight sim. As long as I'm on my soap box...why are there only sims
which deal with the middle and the end of the war? Did someone sit down and
take a survey that said the beginning of the war isn't interesting? And how
come the combat is only against Germany? I think one of the biggest reasons
AOE was a flop, was that there were a lot of people like me who weren't
willing to shell out 40-50 bucks for an upgrade of SWOTL. Let's clear the
whole slate. Why aren't there any games on the eastern front? I'd love to
see I-16's, Lagg-3's and Mig-1's dueling with Me-109's and 110's. Better yet
throw in the Finn's and use Fiat G-50's, Buffalo's and MS-406's. How about
and early war Western Front scenario, Polish P-11c's and 24's vs the Luftwaffe,
Norwegian Gladiators and Hawk's, and the Armee de l'Air. That would generate
a lot more interest than yet another tired old mustang and b-17 vs 109 and
Focke-wulf game. If you have to include the American's then why not the 5th
Airforce over Italy and Romania, through in MC 202's and 205's (the 205's would
give the Mustangs a tougher time than 109's) The Italians had some great designs late in the war. And the Rumanian's even had their own designs IAR -80?
Ploesti would be great! I hope someone at a game company reads this, cause
I'm tired the same scenarios and the same planes in a shiny new wrapper!
Mike
robin.kim
>Aren't people tired of flying P-51's yet!
Not me. :^)
>Wow, every game every made for
>the European theater has at least 3 or 4 of the same aircraft, and the P-51
>is probably the most prevelant. I've already got several flight sims with
>Mustangs, and I couldn't get excited about yet another, with only a marginally
>better flight sim.
Me neither. Are you saying the successive sims covering the same period
in this theatre have not been steadily improving in meaningful ways? You
yourself admitted that SWOTL was really primitive compared to AOTP, and I
assume AOE.
>As long as I'm on my soap box...why are there only sims
>which deal with the middle and the end of the war? Did someone sit down and
>take a survey that said the beginning of the war isn't interesting?
"Their Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain" by LucasArts.
>And how
>come the combat is only against Germany? I think one of the biggest reasons
>AOE was a flop, was that there were a lot of people like me who weren't
>willing to shell out 40-50 bucks for an upgrade of SWOTL.
Was it a flop? It's basically impossible for most people to get sales
statistics on games. The volume and stridency of complaints about AOE on
the net does not automatically lead me to conclude that the game did not
make Dynamix a lot of money.
>Let's clear the
>whole slate. Why aren't there any games on the eastern front? I'd love to
>see I-16's, Lagg-3's and Mig-1's dueling with Me-109's and 110's. Better yet
>throw in the Finn's and use Fiat G-50's, Buffalo's and MS-406's. How about
>and early war Western Front scenario, Polish P-11c's and 24's vs the Luftwaffe,
>Norwegian Gladiators and Hawk's, and the Armee de l'Air.
You're serious, aren't you? I think the number of people who would get
really excited about such a setting would be tiny compared to the number that
would prefer yet another rehash of SWOTL. IMHO, people like to fly planes
they've at least HEARD OF before, and I'll wager the vast majority of flight
sim players in the US only know about the parts of the air war that the US was
directly involved in, with some notable exceptions like the Battle of Britain.
And even then, the fighting against the Germans is what most people think of
when the subject of WWII air combat in Europe comes up.
>That would generate
>a lot more interest than yet another tired old mustang and b-17 vs 109 and
>Focke-wulf game.
A lot more interest for you, maybe. A game company has to worry about what
will sell, unfortunately, and cannot always cater to niche markets.
Hey, maybe I'm wrong and the sim you suggest would sell like hotcakes if
it were produced. I still think game manufacturers would see it as too big
a risk and shy away from it.
My two cents.
Michael Walker
too much if you think you have to include the mainstream U.S. forces in every
game made, and it would be great to see not only some new aircraft, but some
new players in the mix as well!!!
As for the minor power, or in the case of the USSR, France, Italy etc., major
power spin off's, I read a lot of different posts on the net, and people out
here are maniacs. Sure the Nintendo players wouldn't get it right away, but
the serious aviation buffs would love it. If you don't want to make it the
whole game, how about dusting off such projects as the RAF expansion kit
for AOTP. How many people bitched about that to no end. How many Oscars and
Zekes can you skewer with your Mustang before you want more of a challenge, something new.
And as for the games made, how many people know what a Hawker Tempest was, or
a Gotha 209, DO-335, He-162, Shiden, Tigercat, etc. I think given the success
of Red Baron, a sim with squirly underpowered junk heaps would be fun. I
mean anyone can flame a 109 with a Mustang, but how many could with a Pzl-11
or a MS-406? That would take more than just outrunning him and using your
advantages. BOB was great, but it's a dinosaur now, couldn't play it for a
minute. What if they upgraded that, and include an expansion kit for the
Italians, or the Frogs. That'd be awesome! Mustangs are for pansies!
Mike
lah...@castlebbs.com
Better yet, why weren't there any Eastern Front add-ons for AOE, or one
that would have backed up the time line a few years? I personally like
the game a great deal, but I was also troubled by the narrow scope of
the game.
Mad Dog Hoek
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Dave Chaloux
I would really love to see you online in Airwarrior on either side of the
M109 vs. P51 question. I also have to tell you that in Airwarrior, the
P-51 is generally NOT considered one of the better planes. It does happen
to be my ride most of the time. The P-51 certainly has its strengths
(speed, holds energy well) but it has real weaknesses as well (turns like
a pig, guns are pretty average). Anyway, I would love to see you support
your "anyone can flame a 109 with a Mustang" in a flightsim that is
generally considered near the top for its flight model. I also remind you
that certain aces of fair repute have said that it isn't so much the
ride as the pilot. If Airwarrior models anything well, it certainly shows
the truth of that.
I do have to agree, I would like to see more variety of planes available
in the sims but NOT at the expense of accuracy in modeling. Part of the
reason we don't see some of the less common airplanes is the lack of
good information on which to base a flightmodel. The people doing airwarrior
have stated such on numerous occasions.
-----
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\ /______o____/_|
<[____====----= Dave Chaloux #6323 - "French" Genie Mail: D.CHALOUX
|
Greg Cisko
In article 1...@owl.nstn.ns.ca, go...@basmod.bio.ns.ca (Chris Goucher) writes:
>Now, how come when dog-fighting I just end up being forced to turn turn turn
>and more TURN back and forth trying to FIND an enemy let alone get on his
>six? The VC would be somewhat of a help, but alas until after this weekend
>when I upgrade, the frames are to choppy. Even still, I think I'd end up
Finding the enemy... Sounds pretty important alright :-) I generaly use VC
(with the hat) to find him. Then I padlock him. I have my FCS/WCS set up so
that I can padlock and enemy, then go to forward cockpit view at a flick of
the hat. Then when I was to check him again in padlock, I just put the ROCKER
in the UP position. The enemy stayed padlocked and I can see how good I am doing
at getting on his 6. When I want to check my bearings or gauges (forward cockpit
view), I put the rocker in the middle position & flick the hat UP. When I want to
re-padlock I just move the ROCKER -UP. I think this is about the equivelant to
what Rob does with the mouse. Only difference, is that you don't need 3 or 4
hands :-)
>turning and turning. (btw, the "LI" refers to my Limited Intelligence ;-) )
>This is why I posted a while back about finding PAW somewhat like SWotL in
>this respect. I found/find it's just a mass of fying objects all over the
>place and not being able to pinpoint any targets. Obviously the AI-planes
>really aren't keen on having someone on their tails I bet, but I find combat
>much harder than say AOE/AOtP. You start doing any fancy manuevers and the
>airspeed drops badly or blackout/redouts occur. (This is all with realistic
>flight OFF, btw, anyone know if "spins" are more prominent with "real" flight
>ON? I can't even deliberately force my plane to enter a spin, unlike AOE
As far as I can tell spins are quite impossible. Just try stalling. One
wing should loose lift before the other, and you should start spinning.
I tried & couldn't. About the only thing the REALISTIC flightmodel gives
you is torque and buffeting at high speeds. THen again I never took notes
on the PAW flightmodel. (hi Dave!)
>where they were quite frequent comparitively) My guess this sim is more
>accurate in combat than AOE/AOtP, this correct, hence my problems?
>
>Seems in all flight sims I play, I inevitably get into a turning dog-fight
>whether I should or shouldn't be doing it (luckilly I'm in a Zeke while
>getting the feel of the game :) ). I find as well, in order to "lead" the
>enemy you end up for the most part having to have him out of your view (out
>over the cockpoit view), but by the time you shoot he's going into a "scissors"
>type manuever or something and you just waste precious bullets. Also, the
>nose of the plane 'jolts' out of position just as you begin to fire. This
I never really noticed this. I've never flown the zeke either. Are you sure
you are not stalling, at just the point where you need to start shooting?
>may be a realistic action do to the force of the firing guns, but it's still
>frustrating. (and yes... I have the key card and know about the cockpit view
>adjustments ;-) ). I guess do the actual bullets follow the same tragectory
>as the tracers do? This answer may be a starting point to clarify.
>
>So, any tips on how to keep an enemy in ones sights for more than a "fraction
>of a second" fly them on this way :)
Practice...
>
>Also, another neat touch I noticed last night while using the Film Room.
>(Actually I thought my machine was 'letting go' :) ) When you seek forward
>the indicating lights above the KeyPad depict the forward scan (the CAP Lock,
>NUM Lock etc.), neat-o. Still wish you didn't have to wait 10 minutes or
>more to scan to a certain point in the replays though, that's a drag.
>
>Help!
>--
> Christopher Goucher
> E-Mail [go...@basmod.bio.ns.ca]
> This be the end
> My opinions are MY opinions (so be gentle! :) )
Subject: Re: PAW's AI better than my "LI" ;)
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