CH vs Thrustmaster?
Simon Holderness
Hello all
I was wondering if anyone has experience with the top of the range products
from both CH Products and Thrustmaster. I used to use a Thrustmaster Mk I
FCS (Falcon 3 days), but now use a CH Pro Throttle, Pro pedals, and (soon)
an F16 Fighterstick. I was wondering how Thrustmaster products shape up to
these, in terms of ease of programming, reliability, toughness, lifespan
etc? I'm very happy with what I've got - they have proved to be very tough
and easy to use, but I'd like to get some other opinions.
Simon Holderness
P.S. To those of you thinking about being a serious sim-nut without pedals
etc.. forget it - once you've used pedals, throttle etc, it just isn't the
same without them!
Greg Cisko
Simon Holderness wrote in message <689244$i8k$1...@news01.iafrica.com>...
>Hello all
>
>I was wondering if anyone has experience with the top of the range products
>from both CH Products and Thrustmaster. I used to use a Thrustmaster Mk I
>FCS (Falcon 3 days), but now use a CH Pro Throttle, Pro pedals, and (soon)
>an F16 Fighterstick. I was wondering how Thrustmaster products shape up to
>these, in terms of ease of programming, reliability, toughness, lifespan
I really hope this doesn't degrade into a CH vs TM flame war... However, in
terms of programability, I think the TM blows everything else completely
away.
But CH is certainly known for it's ruggedness. I had a FCS Mk I and WCS II
for about 3-4 years. Not one single problem with breakdowns or anything
else.
Now I have a shiny brand new F22-Pro & TQS. I have had none of the bad pot
problems (knock on wood please :-0) that have been mentioned here. The
whole rig works flawlessly. So people may say bad things about the F22-Pro
but so far I cannot as I have had no problems. TM customer support did
tell me that the issues with the F22 have been fixed. I think this may only
be in regards to the bad pots. I did read here that people with 300Mhz
PII's could not download the files to the F22 because the CPU was too
fast. I know nothing about that though. To sum up...
1) Programming? Forget about it! The TM gear is unsurpassed. In fact it
may have so much capability that you can easily reach overload trying
to remember what you programmed where :-)
2) Ruggedness, reliability & lifespan? I'm taking my chances with TM.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
gci...@concentric.net
Brett I. Holcomb
That can be fixed with a firmware upgrade and the latest version of the f22
utilities from TM. I'm running a PII/300 and can download. That's one of
the first things I checked <G>.
Greg Cisko wrote in message <6897h0$c...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>Simon Holderness wrote in message <689244$i8k$1...@news01.iafrica.com>...
Buckaroo
Greg Cisko <gci...@nOsPaMconcentric.net> wrote in article
> I really hope this doesn't degrade into a CH vs TM flame war... However,
in
> terms of programability, I think the TM blows everything else completely
> away.
> But CH is certainly known for it's ruggedness. I had a FCS Mk I and WCS
II
> for about 3-4 years. Not one single problem with breakdowns or anything
> else.
> Now I have a shiny brand new F22-Pro & TQS. I have had none of the bad
pot
> problems (knock on wood please :-0) that have been mentioned here. The
> whole rig works flawlessly. So people may say bad things about the
F22-Pro
> but so far I cannot as I have had no problems. TM customer support did
> tell me that the issues with the F22 have been fixed. I think this may
only
> be in regards to the bad pots. I did read here that people with 300Mhz
> PII's could not download the files to the F22 because the CPU was too
> fast. I know nothing about that though. To sum up...
>
> 1) Programming? Forget about it! The TM gear is unsurpassed. In fact it
> may have so much capability that you can easily reach overload
trying
> to remember what you programmed where :-)
> 2) Ruggedness, reliability & lifespan? I'm taking my chances with TM.
Now Im not anti TM, lets get that out up front ; ). Now maybe you can
tell me what you can do with TM that we cant do with CH. Multiple button
pushes like a double click on a mouse?
I can progam multilple keyboard pushes on any button on stick or
throttle. (including key pad and arrows) About the only thing I cant do is
double push a button on stick or throttle. May be TM stuff has more
buttons and hats, I dont know. But the CH prothrot/fighter stick has
something like 8 4 way hats and 8 regular buttons, (I use the combat stick
myself). Just curious.
--
Eric
"A person is, usually, intelligent, but people are stupid"
Scorpio
The TM F-22 enables you to use 'logical flags' like bool vars in 'normal'
programming languages. You can manipulate these flags with all the standard
boolean logic statements (AND, OR, etc.).In addition to that you can use
the delay and pulse commands to achieve a certain timing in your program.
See http://scorpio.uhde.com/An0002.txt for details.
--
Sierk 'Scorpio' Melzer
Sierk....@post.rwth-aachen.de
http://scorpio.uhde.com
Buckaroo <ekr...@prairieweb.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<01bd14df$d10b8ea0$d7a8f8cc@eric>...
>
[snip]
Aaron & Lia Liebling
A perfect example where CH seems to fail in this: I wanted one button to be a
toggle for whell brake in su-27. The problem is: in the game you have to hold
the key down. so what I ideally need is a way to tell my button on the
throttle (which I love!) to act as the "b" button going in if it's not already
"down", and if it is already "down" then to activate "button_up" on the "b"
key.
I think that's clear and an area where the programming for the CH throttle
(don't have the pro :-( ) fails compared to TM. It's not the biggest deal in
the worl, but it's annoying enough to consider.
Regards,
Aaron Liebling
P.S. Someone please yell at me that I'm wrong and show me the trick for
getting this to work :-)
Buckaroo
Heheh, now maybe someone can translate this to english ; )
Scorpio <Sierk....@post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in article
<01bd1524$c6dcb180$3baa...@a2721732.smail.rrz.uni-koeln.de>...
Buckaroo
Well I dont have a clue what your talking about, heheh. What kind of
Progamming interface does the F22pro have? How long to set it up for a
game? Sounds like you can emulate, just about any button push then,
including a double click from the mouse, correct?
Eric
Robin G. Kim
I normally make it a point to avoid these discussions, but since this
one has somehow avoided turning into a holy war (so far :^), I'll throw
my two cents in.
Buckaroo <ekr...@prairieweb.com> wrote:
>Greg Cisko <gci...@nOsPaMconcentric.net> wrote in article
>> I really hope this doesn't degrade into a CH vs TM flame war... However,
>> in terms of programability, I think the TM blows everything else
>> completely away.
This is a fact.
> Now Im not anti TM, lets get that out up front ; ).
Neither am I, though all my gear is made by CH.
>Now maybe you can
>tell me what you can do with TM that we cant do with CH. Multiple button
>pushes like a double click on a mouse?
Others have talked about the more sophisticated programming you can do
with TM stuff. I'll just touch on two simple capabilities I think are
really useful.
First, I believe TM hardware can send a single keypress-and-release
when you press a button and another when you release it. It is
impossible to do even the first part with a CH stick or throttle, much
less both together.
Second, TM supports "shift" buttons that, when held, remap all the
other hats and buttons arbitrarily. This would be an incredibly useful
thing to have with my Combat Stick and Pro Throttle; as it is, I can
only sort of do this if the key mappings for a game support the concept
by using actual key modifiers like Shift, Ctrl, and Alt (Hornet 3.0 and
F/A-18 Korea are both in this camp, thankfully). I don't know about
you, but I'm constantly running buttons and hat positions to program
with in today's sims. With TM (or Saitek) gear, my memory would be the
effective limit, not the hardware.
Don Hancock
I have the CH Pro and have had it for about 2 years or so. LOVE IT!!!! Paid
under $100 for it and I thought it would be more realistic (sliding rather
than "arcing"). I used with a Logitech Wingman Extreme until I finally wore
out it's fire button. Didn't like the tiny buttons and while ergonomic, it
wasn't realistic. Now I have a TM Top Gun (hey, $30 for TM is nothing to
sneeze at!!!) but I can't get the POV hat to work. (That's another posting
:().
Since I have the Pro I can program any button to work differently when it's
pressed from when it's released, make it a continuous press, or program an
entire macro to it. With the Win95 program for it, all I gotta do is the
press the button I want to program and hit the key I want programmed to it!!
Can't get simpler than that! You're supposed to be able to program ANY
joystick plugged into it (unlike the TM throttle), but with the Win95
program I haven't had to do that yet.
Anyway, for price you couldn't beat it, but now TM has a bundle deal for
about $179 (yeah, like I could ever talk my ol' lady out of more than $100
at any one time!) that has throttle, pedals AND joystick.
Ah well.....
--
Don Hancock
Sales Manager
Business Computer Management, Inc.
Aaron & Lia Liebling wrote in message <34A92D4A...@best.com>...
Jhart13
>
>First, I believe TM hardware can send a single keypress-and-release
>when you press a button and another when you release it. It is
>impossible to do even the first part with a CH stick or throttle, much >less
both together.
Actually, you can do exactly that. I use the "Press" for the 45 degree view in
some games, and the "Release" for the full 90 degree view. Works great.
Jhart
Larry Steere
Robin G. Kim wrote in message <68bijr$7...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>...
>I normally make it a point to avoid these discussions, but since this
>one has somehow avoided turning into a holy war (so far :^), I'll throw
>my two cents in.
Ditto.
Snip
>First, I believe TM hardware can send a single keypress-and-release
>when you press a button and another when you release it. It is
>impossible to do even the first part with a CH stick or throttle, much
>less both together.
>Second, TM supports "shift" buttons that, when held, remap all the
>other hats and buttons arbitrarily. This would be an incredibly useful
>thing to have with my Combat Stick and Pro Throttle; as it is, I can
>only sort of do this if the key mappings for a game support the concept
>by using actual key modifiers like Shift, Ctrl, and Alt (Hornet 3.0 and
>F/A-18 Korea are both in this camp, thankfully). I don't know about
>you, but I'm constantly running buttons and hat positions to program
>with in today's sims. With TM (or Saitek) gear, my memory would be the
>effective limit, not the hardware.
You've hit the nail right on the head on both the single key press and
release limitation and the lack of shift feature on the CH gear. Those
two points are the biggest weaknesses with CH Combat stick and Pro
throttle when compared with other high end flight gear. I just bought the
Saitek x36 combo - yes I am having problems - and they have addressed
both of those issues very nicely. I was able to simulate a glance key in
LB2 using the KP* key, the one that shifts between cockpit and head
up views in the virtual cockpit. I have it programmed for a press and
release when pressed and a second press and release when released,
so that it stays "heads down" until I release it. I love it. I remember
experiancing great frustration in EF2000 trying to get a button on the Pro
Throttle to activate the wheel brake when pressed and deactivate them
when released it was impossible. With the Saitek - and I'm sure TM
gear - it would be a breeze. From a programming perspective the CH
gear is very limiting.
Also the X36 has a shift key that doubles the functionality of each
and every button and hat on both the stick and throttle. And as an
added bonus there are 3 separate modes to choose from, so multiply
the above functionality by 3, I mean YIKES. You need a pretty good
memery just to remember all the possible functions.
Now if I could just get it to work properly with my system ~~ Welcome
to the twilight zone = ^ ( > )
Larry
>
>Rob
>opu...@lucent.com
Scorpio
Sorry, if I wasn't very clear. For a full explanation of everything you
really should have a look at http://scorpio.uhde.com/An0002.txt
How long to set it up for a game? Mmmh, it depends... If you want to create
a very comlex program using every button in more than one way it may take
up to several hours (including testing). OTOH if you just want to make a
short file which covers only the basic functions in a sim you'll be in the
air in less than 5 mins.
Emulate mouse double click? Definately not with the F-22 alone. Using the
F-16TQS - I'm not sure about that. You can, however, emulate the mouse with
the TQS - and map the left and right mouse buttons to two buttons (T1 and
T6) on the TQS. The real mouse is connected to the TQS and may be used at
any time instead of the TQS (no manual switching required).
--
Sierk 'Scorpio' Melzer
Sierk....@post.rwth-aachen.de
http://scorpio.uhde.com
Buckaroo <ekr...@prairieweb.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<01bd155a$425134a0$a4a8f8cc@eric>...
Greg Cisko
Buckaroo wrote in message <01bd14df$d10b8ea0$d7a8f8cc@eric>...
> Now Im not anti TM, lets get that out up front ; ). Now maybe you can
>tell me what you can do with TM that we cant do with CH. Multiple button
>pushes like a double click on a mouse?
Does the CD throttle do a mouse? The TM gear can work as a logitech
3 button mouse (haven't tried yet). The TQS also has 2 rotary switches
just like the X36 gear. However the top (RANGE) rotary switch is also
a push button which can be used as a regular button or mouse button #2.
Does the CH do this? Another point of note I believe is that with the
F22-Pro
(not sure about the FLCS) all the analog channels (including rudders) can
be programmed as digital controls. I haven't worked with this yet as I have
no desire to do this type of thing, but the capability is there.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
gci...@concentric.net
Greg Cisko
Robin G. Kim wrote in message <68bijr$7...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>...
>I normally make it a point to avoid these discussions, but since this
>one has somehow avoided turning into a holy war (so far :^), I'll throw
>my two cents in.
I was trying to be civil. I think it worked for once :-)
There is one last thing about the TM gear I like. I heard (I think from
Rob) that you need to be in DOS to download your config to the CH.
Is this true? With the TM F22 I just run the Command&ControlCenter
as a DOS window in WIndows95 and download my config. No rebooting
no full MS-DOS window, it just works in Win95.
The one poor thing about the TM gear, is the non windows programming
GUI interface. None of them really work worth a darn the last I checked.
And not that I have a F22-Pro/TQS I could really use one. Even the CS
Commander has problems and that is the product with the longest history.
Whoops, maybe it degraded to a flame-war now.
Sorry folks I tried :-)
Buzz Hoffman
Scorpio,
Yes, just make the TQS mouse pointer the mouse and the button
will work just like a real mouse button.
Or you can program the mouse and buttons to emit digital commands
or macros, or whatever.
Buzz
Scorpio <Sierk....@post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in article
<01bd1577$ab3c7700$39aa...@a2721732.smail.rrz.uni-koeln.de>...
Aaron & Lia Liebling
FWIW, I bought a CH Throttle and have been d/ling to it from windows..no
problems at all. Someone let me know if there's the potential of hardware
damage, though they don't mewntion that..only that it won't always work. So
as I said, for what it's worth, I've had no difficulties d/ling to the
throttle from win95..haven't tried nt.
Regards,
Aaron Liebling
Larry Steere
>You can get different keystrokes on press and release by using the "Press
Definition and Release Definition" fields.
This is true, however it is somewhat limited in the ways that
it can be used. Here's why:
As long as the button is held down it will repeatedly send the same
keystroke/s until you release it, the net affect being multiple of the
push keystroke/s and then a single of the release keystroke/s.
For example in EF2000 if you want to program the wheel
brake -the W key- to activate when a button is push and then
deactivate when released you cannot do it with the Pro
Throttle, I know because I tried. What you will get is the wheel
brake toggling on and off repeatedly as long as the button is
held, then depending on your timing it will be left either on or
off when the button is released.
Also, suppose you want to create your own snap view in the LB2
virtual cockpit mode. Lets say you want to program hat 1 right
to scroll 5 units to the right and 2 units down and then stay in
that position until you release the button at which point you want
it to return to center. If you program a macro with 5 KP6 strokes
and 2 KP2 strokes into the Pro Throttle for the press function, and
then program KP5 for the release function to recenter your view
heres what you will get. If you quickly press and release the button
it will probably work, however you would have only gotten a glimps
at the view. If you try to hold the button it will scroll 5 units right and
2 units down and then repeat those same strokes until you release
the button. So, it is impossible to correctly program that kind of
functionality into the CH Pro Throttle.
With the Saitek X36 and I'm sure the TM F22 this function is
simple to pull off. You can easily progam a button to kick out
5 keystrokes and nothing more even if the button is held
then program the return to center keystroke for the button up
function.
I don't want to start a debate or flame war, I have been pretty
happy with the CH gear it has alot going for it. What it does it
does very well and I've had no real problems with it. I just think
that before people run out and buy it they need to be aware
that the CH Pro Throttle does have so major limitations
when it comes to programming it.
Happy Holidays,
Larry
Dennis Newberry
Aaron & Lia Liebling <lieb...@best.com> wrote in article
<34A92D4A...@best.com>...
> A perfect example where CH seems to fail in this: I wanted one button to
be a
> toggle for whell brake in su-27. The problem is: in the game you have to
hold
> the key down. so what I ideally need is a way to tell my button on the
To get the Pro Throttle to act that way just click the "Hold Until Release"
box in Speedkeys.
> throttle (which I love!) to act as the "b" button going in if it's not
already
> "down", and if it is already "down" then to activate "button_up" on the
"b"
> key.
>
You can get different keystrokes on press and release by using the "Press
Definition and Release Definition" fields.
> I think that's clear and an area where the programming for the CH
throttle
> (don't have the pro :-( ) fails compared to TM. It's not the biggest
deal in
> the worl, but it's annoying enough to consider.
>
A toggle and a different press/release is easy to setup with the CH Pro
Throttle. Sounds like you might want to give the CH Pro Throttle a try?
later,
DLN
--
Anti-Spam sites:
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Kenneth Duckett
In article <68c0cp$5...@examiner.concentric.net>,
gci...@nOsPaMconcentric.net says...
<snip>
>There is one last thing about the TM gear I like. I heard (I think from
>Rob) that you need to be in DOS to download your config to the CH.
>Is this true? With the TM F22 I just run the Command&ControlCenter
It used to be true but not anymore. I admit that it was a huge pain in
the ass dropping to DOS to change configs but thankfully it's not
necessary anymore. The SpeedKeys program for Win95 fixed this. It
took quite a while for CH to finally get it released but it works like a
charm (for me anyway). IMO SpeedKeys is a well designed GUI
programming tool for CH gear.
Kenneth "Genocide" Duckett
--
*Send any email replies to: kd...@concentric.net
Robin G. Kim
Jhart13 <jha...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>First, I believe TM hardware can send a single keypress-and-release
>>when you press a button and another when you release it. It is
>>impossible to do even the first part with a CH stick or throttle, much
>>less both together.
>
>some games, and the "Release" for the full 90 degree view. Works great.
Unless I'm mistaken, you're talking about something else. While you hold
down the button (or lean on a hat), the "Press" key is sent repeatedly based
on the key repeat parameters you have set. Then when you release, the
"Release" key is set. I want the "Press" key to be pressed and
released exactly once.
Actually, I hope I'm wrong about this, as it would make some operations a
lot easier to program.
Robin G. Kim
Kenneth Duckett <kduck@*NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>gci...@nOsPaMconcentric.net says...
>>There is one last thing about the TM gear I like. I heard (I think from
>>Rob)
There's that selective hearing at work again! ;^)
>>that you need to be in DOS to download your config to the CH.
>>Is this true? With the TM F22 I just run the Command&ControlCenter
>
>It used to be true but not anymore. I admit that it was a huge pain in
>the ass dropping to DOS to change configs but thankfully it's not
>necessary anymore. The SpeedKeys program for Win95 fixed this.
Yes, thank God.
>It took quite a while for CH to finally get it released but it works like a
>charm (for me anyway). IMO SpeedKeys is a well designed GUI
>programming tool for CH gear.
I agree, but with one addition (which I'm sure we'll never see) I think
it could be even better. When I switch between configs, I like to
practice with all the buttons and hats until I have them all memorized
again. I currently do this by activating a function, checking out the
descriptive name that appears, then hitting the ESC key or clicking on
the Cancel button to move onto the next function. If SpeedKeys had a
"rehearse" mode that would show what a button does (not the key it
sends--I want to see the _label_ I gave it) when pressed without having
to press a key or hit a button afterwards, I'd be a happy camper.
Oh well, I know it'll never happen.
Larry Steere
Robin G. Kim wrote in message <68dmvr$a...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>...
You are right, it is not possible to get a single press and release while
holding down a button - at least I've never found a way to do it.
Larry
Espen Sortland
For Thrustmasters (F-16 FLCS and F-22's) you can map a button to
generate a single character for as long as you hold the button down
with the /H switch.
--cut'n'paste outta the FLCS manual start--
|For example:
|
|BTN S2 /H Guns
|
|The above would result in the following: a single press code will be
|sent for the keyboard character that defines the Guns macro (e.g. G),
|and the release will be sent when the key is actually released. It
|will not be interupted by another button or switch press
|
--cut'n'paste outta the FLCS manual end--
Hope this clears things up :)
--
|Espen 'WildEye' Sortland -*- esp...@online.no -*- Phone +47 92442211
|"Echo 88 this is Echo 91, be adviced, we have enemy fast movers in
|your area, over!" - *Run away!!!*
--
Larry Steere
Espen Sortland wrote in message ...
Snip..
>
>Hope this clears things up :)
Actually we referring to the CH gear being unable to do this. Both TM
and Saitek can easily do it.
Larry
Espen Sortland
"Larry Steere" <l@l.l> writes:
> >For Thrustmasters (F-16 FLCS and F-22's) you can map a button to
> >generate a single character for as long as you hold the button down
> >with the /H switch.
> >
>
> Snip..
> >
> >Hope this clears things up :)
>
>
> Actually we referring to the CH gear being unable to do this. Both TM
> and Saitek can easily do it.
>
> Larry
>
>
Guess I missed the first part :)
Buzz Hoffman
Espen,
Actually, BTN S2 /H Guns
will cause the key to emulate a key that is pressed and HELD on
the keyboard. It will not appear to repeat if you looked at it in keytest
or some other utility, but it will actually be treated as a repeating key
on the keyboard. The /H is used so you can have that key repeat
as long as you hold the button in and you can still go on to use
other keys just like you can on your keyboard and both will work.
The /H issues a make when you press the button and does not
issue a break until you release the button.
To do a single keypress just do it like this:
BTN S2 /N Guns and it will not repeat - it will issue one make and one
break.
To make it repeat, you can do any of the following:
BTN S2 Guns - and hold the button pressed and it will repeat until you
release the button.
BTN S2 Rpt(nnn) Guns - nnn is equal to whatever number you want for
how many times you want the key to be repeated.
BTN S2 Guns Guns Guns - (etc) this would repeat the Guns key three
times and stop even if you hold the button pressed.
There are also several other means to acheive what you want - repeat
groups of keys a certain number of times, repeat keys and have delays
programmed between them, and if you get into the advanced programming
described in the ANnnn.txt files, there are even more ways of doing it
just the way you want - ANY way you want. As many times as you want
even controlling how often the key repeats per millisecond, and so on.
Buzz
Espen Sortland <esp...@pc220.janco.sn.no> wrote in article
<m390t1o...@pc220.janco.sn.no>...
> > Larry
> >
>
> For Thrustmasters (F-16 FLCS and F-22's) you can map a button to
> generate a single character for as long as you hold the button down
> with the /H switch.
>
> --cut'n'paste outta the FLCS manual start--
> |For example:
> |
> |BTN S2 /H Guns
> |
> |The above would result in the following: a single press code will be
> |sent for the keyboard character that defines the Guns macro (e.g. G),
> |and the release will be sent when the key is actually released. It
> |will not be interupted by another button or switch press
> |
> --cut'n'paste outta the FLCS manual end--
>
> Hope this clears things up :)
>
Greg Cisko
Espen Sortland wrote in message ...
>"Larry Steere" <l@l.l> writes:
>
>> >generate a single character for as long as you hold the button down
>> >with the /H switch.
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >Hope this clears things up :)
>>
>>
>> and Saitek can easily do it.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>Guess I missed the first part :)
Don't be too upset. The origional line of discussion was CH vs TM.
As in what can the TM do that the CH can't...
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
gci...@concentric.net
>
Buckaroo
I went to your page, interesting stuff, thanks for the info.
Scorpio <Sierk....@post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in article
<01bd1577$ab3c7700$39aa...@a2721732.smail.rrz.uni-koeln.de>...
snip
Dennis Newberry
Larry Steere <a@a.z> wrote in article <68caij$g5k$1...@Usenet.Logical.NET>...
> >You can get different keystrokes on press and release by using the
"Press
> Definition and Release Definition" fields.
>
>
> it can be used. Here's why:
>
> As long as the button is held down it will repeatedly send the same
> keystroke/s until you release it, the net affect being multiple of the
> push keystroke/s and then a single of the release keystroke/s.
>
Depends on how you use SPEEDKEYS. Right click on the button you want to
setup to see your options. Don't use the SINGLE KEY. Use MACRO and unclick
the hold until release box. If you only fill in the press definition field
the button will act like a keyboard stroke - you will get only one key sent
unless you hold the button then it acts like a keyboard key held down.
> For example in EF2000 if you want to program the wheel
> brake -the W key- to activate when a button is push and then
> deactivate when released you cannot do it with the Pro
> Throttle, I know because I tried. What you will get is the wheel
> brake toggling on and off repeatedly as long as the button is
> held, then depending on your timing it will be left either on or
> off when the button is released.
Hornet and SU27 use a similar method for the brakes and the Pro Throttle
works fine. It sounds like you are using the single key option which will
send a release stroke.
>
> Also, suppose you want to create your own snap view in the LB2
> virtual cockpit mode. Lets say you want to program hat 1 right
-snip example-
I will take your word on that one. I have removed LB2 from my computer and
can't try it.
> With the Saitek X36 and I'm sure the TM F22 this function is
> simple to pull off. You can easily progam a button to kick out
> 5 keystrokes and nothing more even if the button is held
> then program the return to center keystroke for the button up
> function.
>
I have never wanted to do anything like that... I just use the Pro Throttle
to replace the keyboard and I like the way it works using it for that.
> I don't want to start a debate or flame war, I have been pretty
> happy with the CH gear it has alot going for it. What it does it
> does very well and I've had no real problems with it. I just think
> that before people run out and buy it they need to be aware
> that the CH Pro Throttle does have so major limitations
> when it comes to programming it.
>
I would not call it a "major" limitation. I have used TM gear in the past,
WCS/FCS/FCLS, but went with CH gear on the last purchase.
Larry Steere
Dennis Newberry wrote in message <01bd16d6$5a801dc0$565d56d1@bubba>...
>Larry Steere <a@a.z> wrote in article <68caij$g5k$1...@Usenet.Logical.NET>...
>> >You can get different keystrokes on press and release by using the
>"Press
>> Definition and Release Definition" fields.
>>
>>
>> This is true, however it is somewhat limited in the ways that
>> it can be used. Here's why:
>>
>> As long as the button is held down it will repeatedly send the same
>> keystroke/s until you release it, the net affect being multiple of the
>> push keystroke/s and then a single of the release keystroke/s.
>>
>
>Depends on how you use SPEEDKEYS. Right click on the button you want to
>setup to see your options. Don't use the SINGLE KEY. Use MACRO and unclick
>the hold until release box. If you only fill in the press definition field
>the button will act like a keyboard stroke - you will get only one key sent
>unless you hold the button then it acts like a keyboard key held down.
1) What happens when you hold a keyboard key down? It repeats!
2) You've got the check feature backwards. The button will act just like
a keyboard key when the HOLD UNTIL RELEASE box is CHECKED.
3) It doesn't matter if its CHECKED or UNCHECKED, if you hold
a button down the characters that are programmed to that button will
repeat. The only differance is if HOLD UNTIL RELEASED is checked
and you hold down the button, it operates just like holding a key on the
keyboard down. But what happens when you hold a keyboard key
down? Bingo - it starts repeating. If HOLD UNTIL RELEASED is
unchecked and you hold the button down its like pressing and releasing
the programmed key as fast as you can - only faster - until you release
the button. Once again, either way the key will repeat if the button
is held.
You apparently did not take the time to read AND understand what I was
TRYING to say. The repeat problem in and of itself is not the whole
issue - you can easily get a single press and release with the Pro Throttle,
just don't hold down the botton. The paragraph below is an one example
of the point I am attempting - unsuccessfully so far - to make.
>> For example in EF2000 if you want to program the wheel
>> brake -the W key- to activate when a button is push and then
>> deactivate when released you cannot do it with the Pro
>> Throttle, I know because I tried. What you will get is the wheel
>> brake toggling on and off repeatedly as long as the button is
>> held, then depending on your timing it will be left either on or
>> off when the button is released.
>
>Hornet and SU27 use a similar method for the brakes and the Pro Throttle
>works fine. It sounds like you are using the single key option which will
>send a release stroke.
Your not "getting it". In EF2000 the W key acts like a wheel brake
toggle. What I mean is, you press and release the W key once to activate
the wheel brakes, then press and release the W key again to release them.
If you hold the W key down the brakes will repeatedly toggle on and off as
long as the key is held down. This is NOT the same as SU27 where the
brakes are on only while the key is held down. With the Pro Throttle If you
choose HELD UNTIL RELEASE for the brake button in SU27 it works great,
you push and hold the button and the brakes stay on until you release it.
This same functionality is impossible to program (brakes on, only while
button is held) for EF2000 with the CH gear. What you need is to have a
single press and release of the W key when the button pushed and then
not repeat the key UNTIL you let go of the button.
>>
>> Also, suppose you want to create your own snap view in the LB2
>> virtual cockpit mode. Lets say you want to program hat 1 right
>-snip example-
>
>I will take your word on that one. I have removed LB2 from my computer and
>can't try it.
>
>> With the Saitek X36 and I'm sure the TM F22 this function is
>> simple to pull off. You can easily progam a button to kick out
>> 5 keystrokes and nothing more even if the button is held
>> then program the return to center keystroke for the button up
>> function.
>>
>
>I have never wanted to do anything like that
Nobody said you did...It's just an example of the KIND of programming
that the Pro Throttle is incapable of doing.
>... I just use the Pro Throttle
>to replace the keyboard and I like the way it works using it for that.
That is fine and dandy, I do not have a problem with that at all. However
others - like myself - may want to do more than that, and so I am
just pointing out one (there are others as well) of the programming
limitations of the Pro Throttle so that people who have not bought it
are aware of them before they make there decision.
>> I don't want to start a debate or flame war, I have been pretty
>> happy with the CH gear it has alot going for it. What it does it
>> does very well and I've had no real problems with it. I just think
>> that before people run out and buy it they need to be aware
>> that the CH Pro Throttle does have so major limitations
>> when it comes to programming it.
>>
>
>I would not call it a "major" limitation. I have used TM gear in the past,
>WCS/FCS/FCLS, but went with CH gear on the last purchase.
I suppose I SHOULD qualify my statement. The Pro Throttle has major
limitations when compared to the high end products from TM and Saitek.
The same could be said when comparing the Saitek gear ( which I now
own ) with the high end TM gear. For me the Saitek provides just about the
right amount of programming functionality, others feel they need even
more and so would probably prefer TM. You seem content with what the
Pro Throttle offers, great were all happy, to each his own :o)
Happy New Years
Larry