F4: Archer Inbound?
Mark Kratzer
the manual and Bonanni's book.)
Infared missiles give no warning. However, if you have a wingman up
with you, then you get "archer inbound". Is this correct? Except I
guess in Instant Action, since I heard that a lot (without a wingman).
Also, when your wingman says "Archer Inbound", does that mean that you
are being targeted or that he is being targetted?
Thanks.
Mark Kratzer (markshot...@home.com) {remove _banspam}
Greg Cisko
news:VFIfOPOEULN3zx...@4ax.com...
> I am just getting started with F4. (I am about 1/3 the way through
> the manual and Bonanni's book.)
>
> Infared missiles give no warning. However, if you have a wingman up
> with you, then you get "archer inbound". Is this correct? Except I
> guess in Instant Action, since I heard that a lot (without a wingman).
Yep. I believe they fudge the rules to warn you.
> Also, when your wingman says "Archer Inbound", does that mean that you
> are being targeted or that he is being targetted?
It means you have almost no chance to survive and will be
blown out of the sky in a few seconds. The #1 thing I do not
like about F4 (except for dotting the I's and crossing the t's
in the campaign) is that I feel the players flare & chaff are
nowhere near effective enough. The AI (even rookie) uses
chaff & flare against you with good effect. It definitely does
not go the other way around.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com
Bob Howell
changing the modeling of countermeasures in forthcoming patches. As
it stands, I fire a missile and HOPE it finds its mark. They first a
missile and I die .... damn near every time.
At least I think the sim would be much more enjoyable if the playing
field were just leveled.
Bob Howell
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:00:51 -0600, "Greg Cisko" <no.spam.email.for.me>
wrote:
Bouncer
procedures. : )
"Archer Inbound" is the call your wingman gives when he spots the
missle..unfortunately, your wingman has terrible vision, and will only
spot it soon enough for you to say "Aw cra(BOOM!!!!)".
After that, it gets rather..unpleasant. (LOL)
Regards,
-Bouncer-
On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:08:47 GMT, Mark Kratzer
<markshot...@home.com> wrote:
>I am just getting started with F4. (I am about 1/3 the way through
>the manual and Bonanni's book.)
>Infared missiles give no warning. However, if you have a wingman up
>with you, then you get "archer inbound". Is this correct? Except I
>guess in Instant Action, since I heard that a lot (without a wingman).
>
>Also, when your wingman says "Archer Inbound", does that mean that you
>are being targeted or that he is being targetted?
>
Martin Friedrich
>Mark Kratzer <markshot...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:VFIfOPOEULN3zx...@4ax.com...
>> I am just getting started with F4. (I am about 1/3 the way through
>> the manual and Bonanni's book.)
>>
>> Also, when your wingman says "Archer Inbound", does that mean that you
>> are being targeted or that he is being targetted?
>It means you have almost no chance to survive and will be
>blown out of the sky in a few seconds. The #1 thing I do not
>like about F4 (except for dotting the I's and crossing the t's
>in the campaign) is that I feel the players flare & chaff are
>nowhere near effective enough. The AI (even rookie) uses
>chaff & flare against you with good effect. It definitely does
>not go the other way around.
Sorry, but I guess you´re not correct on this one. In my opinion chaff and
flares do work equally effective on both sides. I don`t really often miss
due two countermeasures.
HOWEVER, there are two things that are modelled incorrectly:
a) Range of AIM7s and AIM120s: The tactical reference gives 20nm range for
the Sparrow, but I found it to be effective only upto 10nm distance (headon
non-manouvering target). Likewise, firing the 120 from 30nm range is also
likely to fail (tac. ref. gives 40nm range)
b) I'm under the impression that at least some missiles are way to fast. For
example, when playing the dogfight module (setup 1v1 against a Mig29)
with rear-aspect IRMs only, you´ll be confronted with a AA8 armed Mig29 in
both you and the Mig in neutral position.
When closing in, you´ll discover that the Mig fires one of it´s AA8s -
which are all-aspect by the way - at approx. 2.5nm distance. Look for the
shoot and break immediately. Note your heading, you´ll hear the boom one or
two seconds later. In this time you´ll have turned 20-30 degrees, which is
not enough to evade. Haven´t calculated by hand, but I guess given the AA8
max. speed of 2.7mach should give you more time and therefore degrees.
Back to the flares: In the mentioned scenario for dogfight you can see nicely
how your 9Ps hit the Mig on a regular basis despite its throwing flares like
there´s no tomorrow. Precondition is here solely the Mig cannot outturn your
missile, i.e. you´ll have to fire early enough.
My conclusion: It´s not the countermeasures that are too effective, it´s the
missiles!
Bye,
Martin Friedrich
Bob Howell
<Martin.F...@Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE> wrote:
One or the other needs fixing ... that's for sure.
Bob Howell
bruce...@my-deja.com
newss...@mediaone.net (Bouncer) wrote:
> Short version is that it means you're about to practice your ejection
> procedures. : )
> "Archer Inbound" is the call your wingman gives when he spots the
> missle..unfortunately, your wingman has terrible vision, and will only
> spot it soon enough for you to say "Aw cra(BOOM!!!!)".
> After that, it gets rather..unpleasant. (LOL)
> Regards,
> -Bouncer-
>
> On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:08:47 GMT, Mark Kratzer
> <markshot...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >the manual and Bonanni's book.)
>
> >with you, then you get "archer inbound". Is this correct? Except I
> >guess in Instant Action, since I heard that a lot (without a
wingman).
> >
you
> >are being targeted or that he is being targetted?
> >
misses, the second one never misses? In Campaign I've had very few
misses, always fire just one. That ain't right. Bruce
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Elwood
>
> HOWEVER, there are two things that are modelled incorrectly:
> a) Range of AIM7s and AIM120s: The tactical reference gives 20nm range for
> the Sparrow, but I found it to be effective only upto 10nm distance (headon
> non-manouvering target). Likewise, firing the 120 from 30nm range is also
> likely to fail (tac. ref. gives 40nm range)
Yea, I've seen this too. Live and learn, eh? Also noticed the Apex
missiles will sometimes nail ya from far away. You figured out how to
dodge them suckers yet?
> b) I'm under the impression that at least some missiles are way to fast. For
> example, when playing the dogfight module (setup 1v1 against a Mig29)
> with rear-aspect IRMs only, you´ll be confronted with a AA8 armed Mig29 in
> both you and the Mig in neutral position.
> When closing in, you´ll discover that the Mig fires one of it´s AA8s -
> which are all-aspect by the way - at approx. 2.5nm distance. Look for the
> shoot and break immediately. Note your heading, you´ll hear the boom one or
> two seconds later. In this time you´ll have turned 20-30 degrees, which is
> not enough to evade. Haven´t calculated by hand, but I guess given the AA8
> max. speed of 2.7mach should give you more time and therefore degrees.
> Back to the flares: In the mentioned scenario for dogfight you can see nicely
> how your 9Ps hit the Mig on a regular basis despite its throwing flares like
> there´s no tomorrow. Precondition is here solely the Mig cannot outturn your
> missile, i.e. you´ll have to fire early enough.
>
> My conclusion: It´s not the countermeasures that are too effective, it´s the
> missiles!
>
> Bye,
> Martin Friedrich
Try this:
1. Run up to 500 knots or about mach .8-.9
2. Break off to the side and get some turning room between you and the
bad guy.
3. At the merge drop throttle to idle and pull hard into the bandit.
Don't let your mach go below .6 or so. Your flares should work with
this method on both the first and second missile. What you want to do
is lead turn his jet and at the same time take away the angles from the
missiles he fires in your face.
4. Watch your speed and nail him w/ your rear aspect 'winder just after
he goes by.
I've been pretty impressed with the missiles in Falcon 4. Very
challenging. The key is to take away all the angles you can from the
missile and time your maneuver so that your engine is in idle while the
missile is in the air.
Best fun I've ever had in a flight sim was 2 humans versus 2 AI in
dogfight with Falcon 4. Man, this thing rocks.
Robert L. Mullen
wrote:
>Short version is that it means you're about to practice your ejection
>procedures. : )
>"Archer Inbound" is the call your wingman gives when he spots the
>missle..unfortunately, your wingman has terrible vision, and will only
>spot it soon enough for you to say "Aw cra(BOOM!!!!)".
>After that, it gets rather..unpleasant. (LOL)
>Regards,
>-Bouncer-
>
Ain't that the damn truth!!!! My girlfriend go tired of hearing it,
cause it was usually followed up with me storming around the room
yelling, cussing, and kicking things.
Later,
Rob