Quotes from US and Brit WWII fighter pilots after seeing ME262
MudHead
I was wondering if anybody had any quotes from WWII fighter pilots
regarding seeing the ME262 for the first time.
I'm writing a speech for school, and I'd like to open it up with a
really cool quote from a real life fighter pilot who was there. I
want to know what his thoughts were after seeing the ME262 for the
first time.
Did they think it was a spaceship or something? Were they totally
dumbfounded? I'd be pretty spooked to see something like that if I
was in that time period. Let's face it, "rocket planes" were
something straight out of a cheap sci-fi novel during that time
period. I want to know what they thought of it....
My speech is going to be about gas turbine engines. Since the ME262
is the first vehicle to use the turbine engine, I want to start with
what people thought of it.
Any and all quotes are welcome. However, if you do post a quote here,
please indicate who the quote is from.
Thank you all! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MudHead at XSite dot net
Revvin
Revvin
MudHead wrote in message <36d32558...@nntp.xsite.net>...
Steven Dickson
My first reaction when I saw the jet plane was that I was standing still. It
seemed hopeless to try to attempt to overtake them, but my actions were
prompted by a curiousity to get as close to them as possible. I believe that
will be the reaction of every pilot that comes in contact with them."
-from the book 'Air Command' by Jeff Ethell (date, publisher etc. unknown;
it will be
listed in amazon.com)
" 'The spring sunlight glittered upon the grey waters of the North Sea far
below as Major John C Meyer, commander of the 352nd Fighter Group, led by
his P-51D Mustang fighters towards their rendezvous with a formation of
American heavy bombers en route to Germany. They were nearing the Friesian
Islands when a flight of three twin-engined aircraft were sighted some way
below. Meyer decided to investigate and, taking two sections of Mustangs,
eased into a dive. Then it happened; the three aircraft suddenly picked up
speed and pulled steadily away from the pursuing Mustangs. As the American
pilots opened their throttles wide the unidentifid aircraft lifted and
climbed with unbelievable speed until they were lost to view in the blinding
light of the sun. The Mustang pilots were left doubting the evidence of
their own eyes.'
passage taken from the book: The Messerschmitt Me262 combat diary"
-from the Me262.net site (http://www.valleyboy.clara.net/me262web.htm)
Aaron Turner
: speed and pulled steadily away from the pursuing Mustangs. As the American
: pilots opened their throttles wide the unidentifid aircraft lifted and
: climbed with unbelievable speed until they were lost to view in the blinding
: light of the sun.
Maybe my throttle is messed up in Janes WW2F (my joystick doesn't seem
well centred) as Mustangs don't lag too far behind when I'm flying an Me
262
Aaron Turner
MudHead
<sjdi...@home.com> wrote:
>"John B. Murphy, P-51 pilot, 359th Fighter Group
>My first reaction when I saw the jet plane was that I was standing still. It
>seemed hopeless to try to attempt to overtake them, but my actions were
>prompted by a curiousity to get as close to them as possible. I believe that
>will be the reaction of every pilot that comes in contact with them."
>-from the book 'Air Command' by Jeff Ethell (date, publisher etc. unknown;
>it will be
>listed in amazon.com)
Thank you so much for this quote. I think i'm going to open my speech
with this one. I was also considering the famous quote from Chuck
Yeager: "The first time I saw a jet, I shot it down."
Thanks again! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Dickson
Here's another snippet you might enjoy.
James Finnegan. P-47 pilot, 50th Fighter Group
Finnegan describes shooting down Adolf Galland's Me 262 in April 1945
I was leading the top flight cover of P-47s that was escorting B-26s to
their target. As I gazed down, I saw two objects come zipping through the
formation and two bombers blew up immediately. I watched the two objects go
through the bomber formation and thought "That can't be a prop job, it's got
to be one of those 262 jets". I was at about 13,000 ft and estimated them to
be at about 9-10,000. They were climbing and I pulled a split-S towards the
one that turned left and almost ended up right on top of him, about 75 yards
away. I gave a three second burst and saw strikes on the right hand engine
and wing root. I was going so fast I went right through everything and
guessed my speed at about 550 mph. I recorded it as a probable. I was flying
a D-model Thunderbolt with a bubble canopy, a natural metal finish and a
black nose. The Me 262 had a green and brown mottled camouflage with some
specks of yellow. That turned out to be my last flight in a P-47. My kills
for the war were an Me 109 and a Fw 190, in addition to the Me 262.
Adolf Galland, describing the same incident:
I was shot down by a Republic P-47D flown by a man named James Finnegan,
whom I met some years later and we became friends. We were intercepting
bombers near Neuberg. I was leading a flight and I attacked from astern. My
rockets did not fire but I poured 30 mm cannon shells into one bomber which
fell in flames and flew right through the formation, hitting another. I
could not tell if that bomber was finished off, so I banked around for
another run, all the while my jet was receiving hits from the bomber's
defensive fire. Suddenly my instrument panel disintegrated, my canopy was
shattered and my right knee was struck. I was losing power and was in great
pain. I thought about parachuting out but realized that might be dangerous
as some of our pilots had been strafed upon exiting their jets. I flew for
the deck and headed for this field at the air base, which was under attack.
I cut the power to my good engine and thumped across the field. My nose
wheel had been flattened, smoke was pouring from the plane. I climbed out to
get away in case it should explode, only to find aircraft dropping bombs and
firing rockets at me. Well, our mission netted five victories total and none
of the pilots were killed.
Steven Dickson
Aaron Turner wrote in message <7b0m85$fni$6...@pump1.york.ac.uk>...
>Maybe my throttle is messed up in Janes WW2F (my joystick doesn't seem
>well centred) as Mustangs don't lag too far behind when I'm flying an Me
>262
The difference in top speeds between the P-51 and Me 262 is only about 100
mph (at altitude). I don't know what the max speeds are below 5,000 ft,
which is where most of the combat in WW2F ends up taking place (in my
experience), but let's assume the relative difference is still roughly the
same. A 100 mph speed difference means that it will take roughly 40 seconds
for the Me 262 to gain one mile on the P-51. That 40 seconds is going to
seem an awfully long time in the midst of combat.
S.
John Kozak
: Aaron Turner wrote in message <7b0m85$fni$6...@pump1.york.ac.uk>...
Also the AI pilots in Jane's WW2F do an inhuman (duh!) job of holding on
to their speed. Coupled with the -262's poor acceleration, it's reasonable
to see the AI Mustangs sticking fairly close.
FWIW, I think a 100mph difference is a lot (percentage-wise) given the
top speed of WWII-era fighters.
John Kozak
P.S. Hey Steven, I really enjoyed the snippet about the P-47 vs. Galland's
-262. Where did you snag that?
Steven Dickson
>-262. Where did you snag that?
John,
The passages were taken from two sources:
WWII Magazine interview with Adolf Galland
http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/wwii_int.htm
Interview with James Finnegan (original source unknown)
http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/finnegan.htm
There are a few more similar anecdotes listed under "Pilot Quotes" in the
Aircraft section at http://members.xoom.com/ww2f/ I will be adding to this
section as
time permits.
S.
P.S. Looking through some references, it seems that the low-altitude top
speeds were roughly 360 mph for the P-51 and 520 mph for the Me 262, for a
speed difference of 140 mph. This lowers the time to gain one mile to 26
seconds.
Tim Beltfed Harrison 718th TFW
I have consistantly outrun Me262s with a Mustang in WW2 fighters. I
commented on this awhile back. There was some dialog about it then
too. What seems to happen is when using the fly now! option and the
ME262 wave shows up I fly NOE and for some reason the P51 actually
INCREASES the distance between us! :) I think the AI may get confused
as I fly very close to the ground and follow the contours or the
terrain. This is BTW in a generally straight line with some small
manuevers to avoid terrain features but nothing violent. What the ME's
do is just follow me and seem to waggle their wings as they fall
slowly behind. I just keep the throttle firewalled and go up or down
as the terrain dictates. The 262s stay level but seem to do that
slaloming thing and I slowly lose them until around three miles or so
behind they lose interest and break off pursuit. Go figure. I fly
around 50 or so feet off the ground.
Go figure! :)
On 24 Feb 1999 11:02:29 GMT, Aaron Turner <ag...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>Steven Dickson <sjdi...@home.com> wrote:
>: speed and pulled steadily away from the pursuing Mustangs. As the American
>: pilots opened their throttles wide the unidentifid aircraft lifted and
>: climbed with unbelievable speed until they were lost to view in the blinding
>: light of the sun.
>
>Maybe my throttle is messed up in Janes WW2F (my joystick doesn't seem
>well centred) as Mustangs don't lag too far behind when I'm flying an Me
>262
>
> Aaron Turner
Tim "Beltfed" Harrison
NCOIC,
718th TFW, Skyscrapers
www.718tfw.com
Aaron Turner
: The difference in top speeds between the P-51 and Me 262 is only about 100
: take roughly 40 seconds for the Me 262 to gain one mile on the P-51.
So how does this square with the suggestion that the Me262s shot off at
incredible speed? I suppose it is possible that the P-51s were not at full
speed and the Me262 had greater acceleration, but... I must reread the
original quote
Aaron Turner
Rick Beach
Aaron Turner wrote:
>
> So how does this square with the suggestion that the Me262s shot off at
> incredible speed? I suppose it is possible that the P-51s were not at full
That's one of the difficulties with anecdotal descriptions. The story
reflects the person's previous experience and often focuses on what the
event 'felt' like rather than the actual actual circumstances. This
doesn't make them less interesting to me though.
No references I have read (pilots, test reports, encounters) would give
the 262 high points for acceleration. If it was caught slow relative to
the attacker it was not going to easily accelerate out of range.
However, if they were near equal energy and the 51 at top speed then the
262 still had power for acceleration and the 51 didn't. So I don't think
the stories are incompatible - just the details of the circumstances
aren't available anymore.
That's my story anyway ;-)
Rick
Banger
quickly? Off-topic, in the Galland anecdote it was interesting to note that
he was concerned about being shot in his chute. Another thread has been
discussing this issue for the past week. And one more off-topic comment --
anybody here remember that old Blue Oyster Cult song, "Me 262"?
(Scharmers?)
--
Banger
Rick Beach <rjb...@cris.com> wrote in article
<36D557ED...@cris.com>...
[snipped]
> No references I have read (pilots, test reports, encounters) would give
> the 262 high points for acceleration. If it was caught slow relative to
> the attacker it was not going to easily accelerate out of range.
[snipped]
MudHead
This is some really intense stuff!
John Halliwell
<noth...@dontwantspam.com> writes
>My speech is going to be about gas turbine engines. Since the ME262
>is the first vehicle to use the turbine engine, I want to start with
>what people thought of it.
My guess would be that the Me 262 was the first jet used in operations.
There were several earlier experimental aircraft:
The first jet to fly was the He-178 (27 Aug 1939), followed by the
Gloster E28/39 (15 May 1941) and Bell XP-59A Airacomet (02 Oct 1942).
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Mark J. Cintala
After all these guys gave you this neat info, I'm sure they expect a
FULL REPORT on how the speech went, young man!!!
...So do I.
Craters
On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:09:21 GMT, noth...@dontwantspam.com (MudHead)
wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>I was wondering if anybody had any quotes from WWII fighter pilots
>regarding seeing the ME262 for the first time.
>
>I'm writing a speech for school, and I'd like to open it up with a
>really cool quote from a real life fighter pilot who was there. I
>want to know what his thoughts were after seeing the ME262 for the
>first time.
>
<snip>
>Thank you all! :)
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>MudHead at XSite dot net
-----------------------
Mark J. Cintala
Pull the .pins from my address to e-mail me.
MudHead
Cintala) wrote:
>MudHead --
>
>After all these guys gave you this neat info, I'm sure they expect a
>FULL REPORT on how the speech went, young man!!!
>
>...So do I.
Actually, my speech isn't specifically about WWII era jet fighters.
My speech is about gas turbine engines, how they work, and where they
are most commonly used. I wanted to open up the speech with a quote
like this so I can demonstrate how important the development of the
gas turbine engine was to aviation and the world in general.
Just think how long it would take to use air travel if all the heavies
were still using reciprocating engines....
I'll write back to this thread after I deliver the speech though.
I'll let you all know how it went! And thanks again for all the
excellent quotes! :)
Paul Giverin
>
>I was wondering if anybody had any quotes from WWII fighter pilots
>regarding seeing the ME262 for the first time.
>
>My speech is going to be about gas turbine engines. Since the ME262
>is the first vehicle to use the turbine engine, I want to start with
>what people thought of it.
>
>Any and all quotes are welcome. However, if you do post a quote here,
>please indicate who the quote is from.
>
Not ME262 related but there is a story told in Sir Frank Whittle's
biography (Titled "Whittle, the true story", written by John Golley)
that describes an incident which took place in June 1943, involving a
Wellington bomber flying test bed with a Whittle W2b (later designated
the RR Welland) engine mounted in place of the rear turret.
The Wellington came across a B17 one day and flew alongside it. The
Wellington pilot then feathered both props before opening up the jet in
the tail and gently accelerated away from the B17, leaving it's crew
rather puzzled
--
Paul Giverin
Brian Cullingworth
<SNIP>
John Halliwell
<noth...@dontwantspam.com> writes
>Just think how long it would take to use air travel if all the heavies
>were still using reciprocating engines....
Legend has it that, following the first flight of a De Havilland jet,
the test pilot reported very little vibration. As he walked away, Sir
Geoffrey De Havilland was heard to say something like "What an engine
for passenger travel".
The Comet was born from this idea, and the rest, as they say, is
history...