F/A-18 Inverted flight?

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mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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Howdy all.

Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)

- Mauler


J Hart

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 03:04:05 GMT, mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au
wrote:

No, that's a fuel pump limitation common to all line F-18s in US
service. The situation may be different for those operated by other
nations. It's not seen as a problem, because the airplane never has
occasion to be in a negative G condition to carry out is mission --
or so it says here.

The ones the Blue Angels fly have been modified for extended negative
G flight.

JHart

Andrew See

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote:

>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)

Yes I have heard this mentioned before - in fact, the Blue Angels
display team Hornets have a modification for exactly this reason, as
they remain inverted for extended periods, much longer than a service
hornet would ever need to.

I believe it has something to do with the fuel pumps.

You should be able to get a better answer in rec.aviation.military

Jim Smolen

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote:

>Howdy all.


>
>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)

It probably has to do with a lack of inverted lubrication systems. For
sustained inverted flight, both fuel and oil must be dealt with.

Jim

HammerLN

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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Probably because the engines can't get enough fuel
when flying inverted a long time.

mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote in message
<3522ffef.8797452@news-server>...


>Howdy all.
>
>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>

>- Mauler
>

Colin

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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I believe that EA's Navy Fighters and ATF/Nato fighters model this quirk
in the F/A-18. If you take the plane through a negative-g loop the
engines will shut-down. I don't think they will if you just stay
inverted, haven't check though.

Colin Inman

On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Andrew See wrote:

> mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote:
>
> >Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
> >the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
> >line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
> >remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
> >I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
> >carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>

Rez Manzoori

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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You're kidding right?

PLEASE tell me you were just joking, coz that's the dumbest thing I ever
heard!

Rez

HammerLN wrote in message <6g0ps8$ik2$1...@cadmium.aware.nl>...


>Probably because the engines can't get enough fuel
>when flying inverted a long time.
>
>mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote in message
><3522ffef.8797452@news-server>...
>>Howdy all.
>>

>>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>>

>>- Mauler
>>
>
>

KCox854272

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Apr 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/2/98
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>You're kidding right?
>
>PLEASE tell me you were just joking, coz that's the dumbest thing I ever
>heard!
>
>Rez

No. It is true. But the F/A-18 is not the only one....AV8B is about
7 seconds or less.....and their are many others : ) I think it is more of an
oil recovery(sump) as opposed to fuel.

Zero Point

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Apr 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/3/98
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On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:08:54 GMT, har...@mindspring.com (J Hart)
muttered:

>On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 03:04:05 GMT, mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au
>wrote:
>

>>Howdy all.
>>
>>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>>
>>- Mauler
>>
>

>No, that's a fuel pump limitation common to all line F-18s in US
>service. The situation may be different for those operated by other
>nations. It's not seen as a problem, because the airplane never has
>occasion to be in a negative G condition to carry out is mission --
>or so it says here.
>
>The ones the Blue Angels fly have been modified for extended negative
>G flight.
>
>JHart

It's more of a lubrication issue than anything else (former Hornet
engine mech). The oil reservoir does have a flexible, weighted pickup
line in the tank, but you're still only getting oil for a short time
before things go dry. Pilots are usually only inverted for a few
moments (spotting target, etc) so it's not really an issue.

Zero

--------------------------------------------------
http://home.earthlink.net/~zeropoint/
Flight links, Saitek files, music, and other stuff.

Sir Michael <Bash>

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Apr 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/3/98
to

well...subject says it all.. fly an aircraft inverted and after a few
seconds you will loose oil pressure....

Michael.

mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au schrieb im Beitrag
<3522ffef.8797452@news-server>...

Steve Erhardt

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Apr 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/3/98
to

Nope, it's the truth. Though, I think I read or heard somewhere that
the Blue Angel's F-18's are modified for prolonged inverted flight. Is
that right, anyone?

Steve

Rez Manzoori <r...@manzoori.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<891551499.29283.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...


> You're kidding right?
>
> PLEASE tell me you were just joking, coz that's the dumbest thing I ever
> heard!
>
> Rez
>

Lance S.

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Apr 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/3/98
to

I read that in the Blue Angels brochure they gave out at the Bergstrom
AB show a couple of years ago.

Chris Sartory

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Apr 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/3/98
to

For most aircraft inverted flight time is related to the time it takes the
oil system to cavitate. It's been a little while, but when I flew A-4's
for the Navy, I believe our inverted flight time was restricted to about 4
seconds.

Chris

KCox854272 <kcox8...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199804022315...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...


> >You're kidding right?
> >
> >PLEASE tell me you were just joking, coz that's the dumbest thing I ever
> >heard!
> >
> >Rez
>

Todd Rose

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Apr 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/4/98
to

mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au wrote:
>
> Howdy all.
>
> Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
> the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
> line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
> remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
> I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
> carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>
> - Mauler

Something to do with the inveretd fuel pumps. I think this is actually
modelled in EA's USNF or ATF. The Hornets engines will shut off after
flying inverted for a while. You can also make your RIO loose his lunch
(in the F-14).

-- Silkrider

Mohammad 'MK84' Khair

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Apr 5, 1998, 4:00:00 AM4/5/98
to

Todd Rose wrote:

Does all Hornets have this peculiarity? Even with the EPE engines? Is it
modelled in GSC's Hornets?

--
Mohammad 'MK84' Khair

Founder, Malaysian Flight-Sim Special Interest Group
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6234/

ICQ : 438031

Micheal Smith

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Apr 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM4/11/98
to

On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 03:04:05 GMT, mau...@removethis.netspace.net.au
wrote:

>Howdy all.
>
>Last year, while at an airshow here in Oz, an F/A-18 Hornet was doing
>the rounds impressing the crowd, when it went hurtling past the crowd
>line inverted. The commentator (from the RAAF) said the Hornet can
>remain in inverted flight for about 10 secs.
>I found this rather strange - ONLY 10 seconds? Why is this? Did we put
>carby-fed engines into our Oz Hornets? :-)
>
>- Mauler
>

The reason for this is that there is NO cantilevered oil pickup in a
F404 tank. There is a scupper that holds enough oil for approx 10 sec
of inverted flight. This is fairly common in fighter engines for the
simple reason that there is no need for long periods of inverted
flight.

Mike

phredp...@gmail.com

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Aug 30, 2015, 2:14:10 AM8/30/15
to
It was 30 seconds max in the F-4 if I remember correctly. It's been over 20 years since I've done it but that's what I remember. I know I've done it for lots longer than 10 seconds - probably close to 30 seconds one time at altitude on a bet that I couldn't hold position inverted in formation at 20K+ feet. I won the bet. And yes, it is a fuel pump cavitation issue.
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