F4 super-confused.
Gman
into it. There seems to be lots of help about installing all the updates and
patches, and I have read A LOT of stuff.. so please don't tell me to go read
past posts, i have.
I downloaded and installed the F4 realism patch v40 and installed via the
instructions.. I though that would be all i needed, but it seems that there
is another program called F4 Patch.. what is the relationship between the
realism patch and F4 patch?
Can someone point me to step by step instructions.. seems like i've read 50
different things and they all are slightly different.
I'm partularly interested in getting the eRazor and/or the F4Turbo working,
as my frame rates kinda suck.
please help
thanks
Gman
G Patricks
Icer
Rad
---------------------------------------------------------------
RP4 as released by the Realism Patch group--
You apply RP4 to v1.08us. Predefined F4Patch modifications come with it.
However, there are many F4Patches that many people consider popular and
necessary that are NOT included in this RP4 release because they didn't
satisfy the 'realism' principle that the Realism Patch group worships.
---------------------------------------------------------------
F4Patch 3.1 as released by J. Bierling--
You apply F4Patch 3.1 to v1.08i2. F4Patch 3.1 contains both the RP4
modification AND many more F4Patch modifications choices.
The initial confusion in the installation of F4Patch 3.1 is that the author,
J. Bierling, screwed up the installation instructions. In his overview at
the top of the installation document, he correctly noted that F4Patch 3.1
has to be applied to v1.08i2; but in the step-by-step instructions that
followed below, he omitted stating the critical step of updating to 1.08i2,
leaving the impression that F4Patch could/should be applied to v1.08us
instead. It took him forever to get that straight (and many people are
STILL confused about that).
---------------------------------------------------------------
What's so confusing is that
1) RP4 contains a limited F4Patch within it, and
2) F4Patch v3.1 contains the RP4 update within it! lolol Crazy, huh?
Also, Bierling introduced the poorly explained requirement to <File>
<Expand> F4Patch (which creates a F4Patch sub-folder) if you want to add
future F4Patches. In my opinion, his F4Patch program should have
automatically created the F4Patch sub-folder upon installation, as past
releases did. I'm sure he felt that he had a good reason for handling v3.1
this way, but I can't imagine what it would be.
The overall efforts of everyone involved in the continuing evolvement of
Falcon 4.0 is just amazing and wonderful, but the lack of formal overall
production management shows itself from time to time. The Realism Patch
group and J. Bierling could have-- and should have-- done a MUCH better job
at developing a SINGLE unambiguous method of updating the Realism
Modification and F4 Patches. That would have eliminated SO much confusion.
--
...Rad
"Adamski" <ad...@NOSPAMbankski.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ifol2t0d5fee0c8j0...@4ax.com...
> >I downloaded and installed the F4 realism patch v40 and installed via the
> >instructions.. I though that would be all i needed, but it seems that
there
> >is another program called F4 Patch.. what is the relationship between the
> >realism patch and F4 patch?
>
> I'm similarly "confused" ... but I think I'm beginning to see the
> light (or is that just an incoming "Archer"?).
>
> Being only a *tiny* bit above you on this steep learning curve, I've
> found the best way of viewing both the RP4 Realism Patch and Joel's F4
> Patch (truly imaginative filenaming, eh? <gg>) as patch *managers*.
>
> I may be wrong, but I see RP4 as having a whole collection of patches
> *built-in* (many of which are the old ibeta ones). You enable/disable
> individual components by (jn effect) re-installing the whole RP4
> patch. Sounds complicated ... but it isn't. Takes 10 seconds.
>
> On the other hand, Joel's F4 Patch is a sort of "umbrella" application
> that allows you to add/remove F4 Patch compliant add-ons - namely
> cockpits, sounds, skins etc. My impression is that it swaps these
> add-ons in and out of a common F4patch directory - and these then get
> loaded by F4.
>
> Both applications live side by side, and don't appear to conflict with
> each other.
>
> I asked a few questions here myself (thanks, all!) and sort of bit the
> bullet and installed both, along with some skins, cockpits etc.
> Nothing ventured, nothing gained ... etc.
>
> Well ... what can I report? All works well. The whole process appears
> harder to describe than to actually do. The result is staggering. All
> changes to F4 are a few simple clicks away. Everyone concerned has my
> heartfelt compliments. I daren't even *think* about the man-hours that
> must have gone into all this.
>
> If there is a perceived "marketing" problem with all these patches
> then, considering the number of contributors, it's not surprising. The
> amazing thing is that they've co-operated so well to give us so much.
>
> Just about everyone here will have a more educated view than mine on
> all this .. but I thought you may like to hear from an F4 Patch
> "virgin" <ggg>.
>
> Only real trouble is ... I'm so *CRAP* at F4 :-((
>
>
> Adamski
>
> Su27 Flanker 2.0 Challenge Ladder: http://w3.fl-air.co.uk/flanker20/
> Warbirds H2H Challenge Ladder: http://w3.fl-air.co.uk/warbirds/
>
Jam
Will tell you everything you need to know.
Adamski
G Patricks
Maybe, since your such an expert on the issue, you should offer to do
all the documentation for Joel and the RP people. He has stated very
clearly that he does the best he can in the time he has. I for one
GREATLY appreciate his work, "flawed" or otherwise. Its free and its
great.
And who the hell are YOU???
Icer
Adamski
wrote:
>Hey "sobad" -
>Maybe, since your such an expert on the issue, you should offer to do
>all the documentation for Joel and the RP people.
[...]
>And who the hell are YOU???
Eh? Dog eat your favourite soft toy?
I thought his post was quite informative and really helpful. I used to
think I was real *hardcore* till I started messing with F4 patches and
getting confused as hell.
Believe it or not, Icer, there are people around that *havn't* been
fiddling with their Falcon for the last year or so. Me for one.
Now, I'm no newbie to technical writing and eat Perl manuals for
breakfast, but honestly - the plethora of conficting advice for F4
patches is a real problem - not helped by occasional inconsistencies
in actual patch documentation. I think most people will concede that
one.
I'm not being ungrateful or picky with what's on offer (it's bloody
brilliant) - I'm just saying it's confusing for newbies, OK?
So ... I don't see why "sobad" gets such a rough ride from you. I
think he probably *could* do the documentation, if you asked him
nicely - but for some reason I expect you'll find that notion "bad".
I've lurked in this NG for more years than I dare to remember, posting
the odd salvo at long intervals. I've found that 99% of the time my
posts here have been replied to quickly, informatively and politely.
You trying to wake Scharmers up or something?
Gino van den Bergen
since it includes the RP4 from the F4_RP_v40 installer, right?
The "safe" way that works for me is:
- clean install from CD
- apply v1.08us patch.
- apply F4_RP_v40 installer patch
- apply additional patches from F4Patch3.1 (select the Falcon_RP_v40.exe for
applying these patches)
BTW, why is it necessary to reboot after each iteration? It seems a bit paranoid
to me.
Gino
Rad wrote:
> --
> ...Rad
> "Adamski" <ad...@NOSPAMbankski.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ifol2t0d5fee0c8j0...@4ax.com...
Rad
>Maybe, since your such an expert on the issue, you should offer...
What a sarcastic and unwarranted response. This is a strange reaction to me
helping someone trying to understand the various options in the confusing
upgrade path to the latest version(s) of Falcon 4.0. Your comments are way
out of line.
> >I thought his post was quite informative and really helpful. I used to
> >think I was real *hardcore* till I started messing with F4 patches and
> >getting confused as hell.
>
> I'm sorry you got so frazzled.. its really not all that tough. As for
> Rad - sobad, other than nit-picking Joel Bierling's efforts...
I guess you accidentally skipped the part I said about "...(t)he overall
efforts of everyone involved in the continuing evolvement of
Falcon 4.0 is just amazing and wonderful." I see a big difference in
nit-picking and legitimate constructive criticism. Maybe you don't. I
didn't demean Joel Bierling or his overall contribution and I think anyone
who read my post, including Mr. Bierling (but except you), would agree.
Also, you may have noticed that there is no smart-ass sarcasm in MY post
anywhere.
> ...what contribution has
> he made here in the past? People that pop out of the woodwork to
> critisize have allways bugged me.
Pop out of the woodwork. That's funny. I've been a Falcon user and fan
since its original v1.0 release, which, if I read between the lines
correctly, may possibly be older than you. I ran it on an IBM PS/2 Model
80, which used the monster 80386 CPU running at a blazing 16mhz. Again,
that may well be long before your time.
Also, if you read the RP4 documentation that recognizes past people's
efforts that have led to its current stage, one of the people it recognizes
is RAD. I don't know why they spelled it in all caps, but that's me. I
explained the conceptual approach to the coding implementation of 'bubbles'
in Falcon 4.0 a little over a year ago, which was later expanded on by
others. "What contribution has he made in the past?" "Pop out of the
woodwork..."? You look kinda silly with egg on your face.
There's simply no excuse for attacking someone who's only trying to help
someone else. You may wish to reconsider how you respond to others--
especially those you know nothing about-- before you blurt out unwarranted
sarcasm and embarassingly inaccurate statements. But I'm sure that you're a
fine fella most of the time, and I accept your apology in advance. I hope
you're enjoying the latest version of Falcon as much as I am.
...Rad
Callsign: SoBad
Dell PII450/128RAM, Voodoo 3500
1600x1200 on a 21" monitor
FULL realism, no labels
---------------------------------------------------------
G Patricks
Don't have a dog.
>I thought his post was quite informative and really helpful. I used to
>think I was real *hardcore* till I started messing with F4 patches and
>getting confused as hell.
I'm sorry you got so frazzled.. its really not all that tough. As for
Rad - sobad, other than nit-picking Joel Bierling's efforts (who gets
nothing for his contribution to our community), what contribution has
he made here in the past? People that pop out of the woodwork to
critisize have allways bugged me.
>Believe it or not, Icer, there are people around that *havn't* been
>fiddling with their Falcon for the last year or so. Me for one.
Oh, I believe it....
>Now, I'm no newbie to technical writing and eat Perl manuals for
>breakfast, but honestly - the plethora of conficting advice for F4
>patches is a real problem - not helped by occasional inconsistencies
>in actual patch documentation. I think most people will concede that
>one.
Just ask the question, and help ye shall get...
>I'm not being ungrateful or picky with what's on offer (it's bloody
>brilliant) - I'm just saying it's confusing for newbies, OK?
Sure nuff.
>So ... I don't see why "sobad" gets such a rough ride from you. I
>think he probably *could* do the documentation, if you asked him
>nicely - but for some reason I expect you'll find that notion "bad".
Really depends how many Killians I have on hand.
>I've lurked in this NG for more years than I dare to remember, posting
>the odd salvo at long intervals. I've found that 99% of the time my
>posts here have been replied to quickly, informatively and politely.
Thank you.
>You trying to wake Scharmers up or something?
I think hes dead.
>Adamski
>Su27 Flanker 2.0 Challenge Ladder: http://w3.fl-air.co.uk/flanker20/
Ahh, now I see your problem..
8-)
Icer
Why can't we all just..... get along?
Adamski
Yep. Agreed. On that score, I've no real complaints - and yes, Rad's
post was helpful to me too.
Must be an American <> European thing, but I feel Europeans are far
more phlegmatic when it comes to criticism. Sweeping generalisation I
know, but I've found that Americans seem to get more upset when
someone dares to say something is less that 100% brilliant than do
Europeans.
Rad wasn't saying it's a pile of cr*p ... just that it's not perfect -
and explained precisely (and constructively) why. No big deal. He
didn't deserve the Spanish Inquisition <ggg>.
>>You trying to wake Scharmers up or something?
>
>I think hes dead.
He sleepeth ...
>>Su27 Flanker 2.0 Challenge Ladder: http://w3.fl-air.co.uk/flanker20/
>Ahh, now I see your problem..
>8-)
Hehe ... well, we all have our cross to bear <g>.
Who knows ... maybe we'll see a Falcon4 H2H ladder? Arrrgh.
Adamski
Su27 Flanker 2.0 Challenge Ladder: http://w3.fl-air.co.uk/flanker20/
Jan-Albert van Ree
>
> In theory, it should be possible to apply F4Patch3.1 onto a clean v1.08us,
> since it includes the RP4 from the F4_RP_v40 installer, right?
>
> The "safe" way that works for me is:
> - clean install from CD
> - apply v1.08us patch.
> - apply F4_RP_v40 installer patch
> - apply additional patches from F4Patch3.1 (select the Falcon_RP_v40.exe for
> applying these patches)
>
> BTW, why is it necessary to reboot after each iteration? It seems a bit paranoid
> to me.
Never did that... works fine.
I did finally find out why after 2-3 missions each time I checked the
briefing I got a CTD... I never bothered to read the line-up chart readme,
which clearly mentioned this problem. Played 9 missions straight yesterday
and no problems so far! This game just keeps getting better!
--
Jan-Albert "Anvil" van Ree | http://www.nl.3dgamers.com
3D Sims Archive maintainer | http://www.3dgamers.com
Thrustmaster Resource Center | http://www.3dgamers.com/tmresourcecenter/
Brickbay shop "Brick Piles" | http://www.brickbay.com/store.asp?i=javanree
Twi...@vortex.com
> I did finally find out why after 2-3 missions each time I checked the
> briefing I got a CTD... I never bothered to read the line-up chart
> readme, which clearly mentioned this problem.
And what is it?