WB - Some things change...
Scott Thomson
Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
Examples:
1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
other "vet" squads to the Reds.
2. Axis rules?: After flying the new planes in v. 110 I can honestly say
I think the German and Japanese designs rule the roost. The Dora-9 is
an *awesome* BnZ plane, and Ki 84 if flown properly can be a very tough
oppenent. Throw in the switch in the FTD's to the P-38L and you have have
got some very competitive historical fighter matchups. Allies still rule
the Buffs (as the should).
3. Buffs as ACK: Despite the numerous and highly irritated episodes of
AAAB-17's and AAAB-25 recently, I seem to actually see some people
using the bombers as they intended. Could be just people practicing
for FG, but I think we might be seeing a subtle "de-dweebification"
going on here. :-)
4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
I have been killing recently. <G>
5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
right time of the day.
7. SMT1 flying Axis kites!?: Yes, I admit it...I have flown the Dora and
Frank in the arena, and *enjoyed* it. <oh, the shame> <BFG>
Of course some things *never* change like...
<Begin rant, not for the humor impaired>
Red AAA DeathStars. (actually seen all countrys do it, but I think the
Reds are the biggest offenders).
Red Zeke HO rammers. (I swear that these guys are actually *trying* for
the collision kill, but I can't really support my claim with proof).
Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
Green gear dropper colliders. (what is it with these guys anyway?)
Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
<end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
(yes, it happend *again*)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Scott McKay Thomson - OAO International - Second Shift VAX Operations |
| WarBirds: SMT1 <501 FF CO> squadron leadership, planning and training |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Krempasky
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
Well, we (The Screamin' Meanies), one of the better Red squads (few
Red squads?) just switched to Gold because we couldn't tolerate the
incompetence anymore. Now I hear a bunch of Gold squads moved to the
Reds - ironic. I've usually fly evenings US Eastern time, and it
seems like the Golds are doing fine, usually have 5+ fields, and have
as many or more guys up than the other countries most of the time.
This is last week - I've only been Gold for that long. Have noticed
that Red is doing a little better; prior to last week, in the last 3
weeks of my Redness, Red NEVER had more than 1-2 fields and I was
online during a red capture of a field ONCE. In the past week it
seems to be the Greens getting their asses kicked now.
Geof Evans
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) writes:
>Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
>Examples:
>1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
>of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
>other "vet" squads to the Reds.
Well...finally there are THREE colours to scan the sky for now ;]
>4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
>the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
>even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
>I have been killing recently. <G>
I spent 2 sorties buff hunting. Managed 0.64% gunnery. Buffs are easy ;]
>5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
>competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
>While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
>there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
>people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
>*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
>I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
Not for me. Can't break it above the 5:1 mark, no matter WHAT I do
(apart from doing scenic tours for the Bingo crowd)...what has made
it really hard is 4 colours in view not GOLD for every Gold I see.
I distinctly remeber looking back over the wing last night and seeing
a subtle red tinge in the paintwork ;]
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
See above reply. On the upside, there are a great many more targets now
...and I actually landed 1 sortie with 3 hits scored and 3 kills ;]
Yes, that Gold D9 at 50ft. winging over endlessly surrounded by Red and
Green and Purple was quite likely me, lost somewhere on the deck over
and over and over again in the F2 -> F3 -> F8 (F7 ?) triangle.
>7. SMT1 flying Axis kites!?: Yes, I admit it...I have flown the Dora and
>Frank in the arena, and *enjoyed* it. <oh, the shame> <BFG>
Shame shall descend on the Ki driver, woe beget the Ki driver.
Glory be to the Dora Angel, unto thee behold the sublime truth
of accelleration and the thunderous glory of 2200 hp.
Unless of course, you are a Red/Green/Purple Dora, then the devil
be your ailerons ;]
>Of course some things *never* change like...
>Red Zeke HO rammers. (I swear that these guys are actually *trying* for
>the collision kill, but I can't really support my claim with proof).
Crazy fools with crack fuelled neural synapses.
>Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
You take it, you will regret it. Fw has BIG guns, NO turn.
I would think this was the first thing to expect, and avoid.
>Green gear dropper colliders. (what is it with these guys anyway?)
Drop your gear in a fight ? Sure, why not ? A knife is a great
defense against a shotgun isn't it ?
Doc.
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis Moose Gregory
Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>Well, if anyone hadn't noticed, things *are* changing in WB these days.
>
>Examples:
>
>1. Red "Experten"?: What was once a rarity is now common with the influx
>of such high powered squads as the Black Sheep, F'ing Pigs, Muskies and
>other "vet" squads to the Reds.
We (greens) captured all of Red's fields and "won the war" last night,
but I think that was more of a numbers issue than anything else (I just
logged on at the tail end of the fight, flying with a Hellfish raid to
bomb F1). The Reds have definitely been more aggressive and more skilled,
it's not hard to see the difference that the influx of new pilots has
made.
>4. Gunnery up: As anyone else notice the hit % seem to have gone up over
>the last few months. We have guys who routinely post rate over 25% and
>even a low skill dweeb like me has a 13% rate, must be all those Buffs
>I have been killing recently. <G>
I've somehow managed to hold 15.9% this time around, and I'll be damned
if I know how. <g> I think it involves some judicious B-25 hunting
(low-side gunnery passes...mmmmmmm, buuuuffffsss), flying very few bomber
sorties so autogunners do not lower my percentage, and waiting until I'm
200 yards away to open fire. I also don't B&Z all that much normally,
although I've started doing that more since I've accepted the challenge of
the new planes, especially the 109K for some reason. I'm weird, I guess.
:)
>
>5. K/D way up: Talk about a big change, since ICI started the scoring
>competition, we have seen the "Experten" posting some impressive K/D's.
>While it is true there are lot's of "newbies" flying these days, but
>there has *always* been plenty of them. I think that maybe we are seeing
>people *consciously* trying to RTB. This is an excellent tread. Of course
>*I am* still mucking around in the ACK at F1 like the suicidal fool that
>I am, so it's kind of N/A for me personally.
Maybe so, but a lot of that k/d is being gathered by people that just
hang out near fields and nail people in transit to somewhere else, without
helping their country capture fields or do any of the other reindeer games
we get to do online. It's a perfectly valid tactic, and if it floats
their boat, more power to 'em. Me, I'll never do it because I
occasionally like to get down and muddy in a field defense, or go drop a
few eggs on somebody's head.
>
>6. Golds, what Golds?: With several of the top Gold squads moved on to the
>"happy hunting ground" (one of my terms for the Reds), I have notice a
>definate lack of aggressiveness among the Golds. Except for a hardy few
>Gold FW drivers, they don't seem to appear near the main fight (usually
>a big Purple and Red "party" near F1). Maybe I am just not flying the
>right time of the day.
That's because they all hang out between F6 and F9. The past few
nights I've been on, there has been a consistent grouping of reasonably
skilled and aggressive gold pilots that capture F9 and then harass F6.
They're usually in the traditional Golden Focke-Wulf Horde (with some
Franks and P-38Ls thrown in) at 15,000', and sometimes they even attack F6
instead of just trying to interdict us from F9. And as for F8...do we
even really need to consider that as a Green field any more? I *never*
see Green own it when we log on, so we're usually down one field from the
start unless we grab F2. :)
>Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
>this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
I'm not an ack hugger, I'm an ack scraper. I usually wind up having to
run home to Mommy with about eight gazillion (well, OK, two) bad guys on
my tail, rolling and jinking frantically as I try to get myself out of
whatever bad situation I've gotten myself into. So I try to find either
the biggest concentration of friendlies or the biggest concentration of
ack, so the bad guys will go away and I can regain my bearings and begin
all over again. On the good side, however, I'm getting *very* good at
guns defense rolls. ;-)
>
>Gold FW Headoners. (very frustrating to fight, best to avoid).
Yes, they still exist, and yes, they piss me off. When I'm in the
109K, though, I'm sometimes tempted to go nose-to-nose with 'em and see if
I can get lucky and punch some 30mm into that nice shiny new Dora of
theirs. :)
Check six,
Lewis "Moose" Gregory
lgre...@concentric.net
7646...@compuserve.com +------------------------------------------
http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory | WarBirds ID: "moos", for the Greens
-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
CO 94th Composite Group - "The Flying Squirrels" - WATCH YER NUTS!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Moose's Den -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION -- http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory
CJ Martin
In article <587svr$t...@herald.concentric.net>, Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
[snip]
>Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
>this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
Funny how flying red has opened my eyes to what is really going on
here at least 50% of the time...the reds are constantly being vulched,
so they never really get the chance to get clear of the AAA. Not a
bitch, just an observation.
[snip]
>Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
Endless, and the same guys over and over. It is making many of the
Pigs rethink the apparent high scores of some purps.
><end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
>
>And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
>
>SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
>
>(yes, it happend *again*)
"Mighty"??? I'm seem to be more of a danger to myself these days than
to others, as I keep relearning that same old lesson:
The ground has a Pk of 1.0.
Smut
William Moran
As someone who has been vulched by golds when flying as green, I would
have to say that some of the "best" gold pilots run their scores up
doing this too. On the other hand, some of the gold pilots are sporting
enough to let you get some E ... and then shoot you down. Vulching is
made much worse by the reds not helping each other at all - green falls
into this trap at times, but it is often because there are 1/5 as many
greens on as any other color. Also green shows up like a come kill
me sign against the ground.
A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
behavior.
mcar
James G. Schuldes
Scott Thomson wrote:
>
> SMT1 getting mistaken for the mighty Smut in the arena. :-)
>
> (yes, it happend *again*)
Try wearing some "Groucho Marx" glasses!~ Or just fly the new SBD (it's
awesome!)
Snak, out!
--
Jim Schuldes
Information Processing Consultant
School of Business Administration
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
zeno
Scott Thomson wrote:
(snip)
>
> 2. Axis rules?: After flying the new planes in v. 110 I can honestly say
> I think the German and Japanese designs rule the roost. The Dora-9 is
> an *awesome* BnZ plane, and Ki 84 if flown properly can be a very tough
> oppenent. Throw in the switch in the FTD's to the P-38L and you have have
> got some very competitive historical fighter matchups. Allies still rule
> the Buffs (as the should).
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Scott McKay Thomson - OAO International - Second Shift VAX Operations |
> | WarBirds: SMT1 <501 FF CO> squadron leadership, planning and training |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Having already spent some memorable moments in the Dora (and been duely
impressed), it would now be only fitting to have an Allied Forces speed
merchant to step up to give her some serious one on one competition.
(Sorry, IMO, the Pony ain't it.) Some of you know the bird of which I
speak, and have been yearning for it too. (I have heard the pleas on
channel 100.) This has the making of a matchup of epic proportions.
It's time for the Spit XIV!
Before people start sqwaking about "it spent all it's time chasing
V-1s". The XIVs spent less than three months out ot the sixteen they
were in combat (from Jan 44 to VE day 45) chasing V-1s. They downed V-1s
June-Aug 44. From Sept 1, 44 on (shortly after the Dora was introduced)
XIVs were flying over Northern Europe from bases in Belgium as air
superiority fighters, seeing regular combat (as they had Jan-Jun '44)
against the LW. They were also produced in about the same numbers as
the Dora (900+).
Re: "Well if we get the Spit XIV, lets add the TA-152." IMO, the Spit
21 is analogous to the Ta152, not the XIV, both in relative time of
introduction & numbers in combat.
IMO, the SpitXIV is no more an "uber plane" than the Dora (if for no
other reason than ammo capacity). It could be modeled as a variant
(like the Dora) & therefore would not require major artwork like a JUG
or La-5.
The forces of Democracy cry out for a new defender! Just think about
those two worthy opponents tearing up the skys. Plus, IMHO it will be a
blast to fly! ;)
zeno
fats
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>It's time for the Spit XIV!
>Before people start sqwaking about "it spent all it's time chasing
>V-1s". The XIVs spent less than three months out ot the sixteen they
>were in combat (from Jan 44 to VE day 45) chasing V-1s. They downed V-1s
>June-Aug 44. From Sept 1, 44 on (shortly after the Dora was introduced)
>XIVs were flying over Northern Europe from bases in Belgium as air
>superiority fighters, seeing regular combat (as they had Jan-Jun '44)
>against the LW. They were also produced in about the same numbers as
>the Dora (900+).
I was waiting for you Zeno to ask for the XIV.:) At the time that
thread was goin on in here, I was chucklin and waitin for someone to
realize that all XIV Squadrons were transfered to main land. Secretely
hoping no one did.:) I agree Spit XIV should be introduced, how ever
there should be no objections for the Me 262 either.
---
fats
Lentolaivue 24.
p.s. the XIV will kill the D-9 so fast you won't be able to say
"murder".<g>
>zeno
Douglas S. Hillman
William Moran (w...@panix.com) wrote:
:
: A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
: off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
: him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
: behavior.
Having flown as a red for the first 2 1/2 months of my WB career, I know
all about getting vulched. I ALSO know that if you've got ANY brains and
with just a touch of luck you can usually avoid it. When we were down to
only F1 (which was most of the time), I'd get a Spit or Zeke (something I
could work well without alot of alt or E) get off the runway and run East
out to sea as hard as I could. I'd say 80% of the time, I would get out
safely and get enought alt to come back and do some serious defending.
The guys getting vulched are the ones who jump off the runway in a FW and
immediatly start turning after an attacker. They never even get enough E
to make the plane work and consequently get zapped time & again. If you
want to have any success here, you've got to fly intelligently. Takeing
up a FW when your only feild is under heavy attack is just not smart.
Along those lines, now that I fly purple I find myself having a little
pity on the poor imbecile reds. Last night I was over F3 pretty much on
my own. I found 1 red there in a Ki and promptly killed him. He was
immediatly back on the runway taking off again. A simple look around
after typing .fly would have shown me hovering there. He got blasted as
soon as he took off. Next time I gave him till about 3000 feet. But he
had no E when he got to 3000 cuz he just climbed straight up from the
runway at me. Another easy kill. I then told him over 100 that I'd wait
till he got some alt this time to make it fair. He gained alt this time,
but still he climbed as straight up towrads me as he could. This one was
at about 7000 this time. Bang zap - again. I'd like to think that maybe
he learned something from all this, as he didn't try to take off from F3
again. Hopefully at least 1 more red now understands that you're very
seldom gonna get an even break in the arena, and it's senseless to
continue to try if you have other options (ie taking off from a field
which is not being capped by another color).
I do find myself letting guys get up more often though. You might have
seen me anouncing it over 100 the past few nights. After vulching a guy a
few times I'll get tired of it and tell him that I'll let him up and wait
for him at say 8K or so and we'll go from there.
I will continue to zoom down on them as they're taking off a few times
first though. Hey, it's a war out there, and if they're foolish enough to
use poor tactics they deserve what they get. Only after I've hopefully
shown them the error of their ways will I let them get some parity in the
fight.
dobe Doberman <No Squad>
<VF-17 Hanger-On until I get officially invited>
zeno
HeHe -- thanks for your "support" fats, but throwing the Me-262 into
this particular discussion is (IMO) a nonsequitor designed to derail
it. While the Dora & Spit XIV are more or less in the same ball park in
performance (as are say the Spit IX & the A-4), the Jets, are IMO,
operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
zeno
Mark Grabski
CJ Martin wrote:
>
> In article <587svr$t...@herald.concentric.net>, Sm...@cris.com (Scott Thomson) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Red ACK huggers. (can't say I really blame them, I practically invented
> >this tactic during CK v.91. Yes, I *was* that dweeby. :-( ).
>
> Funny how flying red has opened my eyes to what is really going on
> here at least 50% of the time...the reds are constantly being vulched,
> so they never really get the chance to get clear of the AAA. Not a
> bitch, just an observation.
>
> [snip]
>
> >Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
>
> Endless, and the same guys over and over. It is making many of the
> Pigs rethink the apparent high scores of some purps.
>
> ><end cliched "country specific behavior rant">
> >
> >And of course there is one thing that will *never* change...
> >
> >
> >(yes, it happend *again*)
>
> to others, as I keep relearning that same old lesson:
>
> The ground has a Pk of 1.0.
>
> Smut
How do the purps get to the red fields in the first place to vulch?
I don't vulch, but I find the fight is mostly over red fields. I
sometimes wish they were closer to purp fields so I wouldn't have to
fly so far. The reds always seem to come in low. They are
definitly not afraid to get into a fight unlike some of us
'superior' alt boom & zoomers. The reds probably spend more time
in fights then the rest of us getting alt (me included).
Mark (Herc)
zeno
>
> >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
> >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
> Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
> other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
>
> ---
> fats
> LeLv 24.
>
> >Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
>
> >zeno
fats
Hehe, tYer right, it would be a "Riot" -- what kind is another question
though. Jets might not rule the arena (can't see T&B'n in one & they
would be an easy vulch takin off) but IMO buffs & 25s would become dead
meat. Those 4 30mms in the 262 would slice & dice um into little pieces
in one pass. (Pardon me for doubting the sincerity of your previous
post.:) )
YFS,
zeno
XXX
Redd
>>Smut
>As someone who has been vulched by golds when flying as green, I would
>have to say that some of the "best" gold pilots run their scores up
>doing this too. On the other hand, some of the gold pilots are sporting
>enough to let you get some E ... and then shoot you down. Vulching is
>made much worse by the reds not helping each other at all - green falls
>into this trap at times, but it is often because there are 1/5 as many
>greens on as any other color. Also green shows up like a come kill
>me sign against the ground.
>A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
>off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
>him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
>behavior.
>mcar
Hehe - same alt and same E are two entirely different things.....
There are vulchers and their are polite vulchers it seems......<g>
All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
advantage when they have it.
Redd VF-17
MJes...@aol.com
Re...@Itg.com.au (Redd) wrote:
>All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
>total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
>advantage when they have it.
>
My (current ;) feeling is that if I have to fly all the way to a
main field to find a fight, I'm going to shoot anything that moves.
- Matt
WB: para
JG14
fats
Andrew Smith
Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
(use them for target practice in a Dora. hehe)
Varied and dynamic world with interesting objects with unpredictable
actions (dynamic campaigns! and strategy!)
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<32A8FC...@concentric.net>...
MJes...@aol.com
"Andrew Smith" <smi...@cris.com> wrote:
>
>Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
>
>but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
Please, please, let me launch 'em!
>
>(use them for target practice in a Dora. hehe)
>
>Varied and dynamic world with interesting objects with unpredictable
>actions (dynamic campaigns! and strategy!)
>
Given all the unpredictable and dynmamic strategies I see in the arena
day-to-day, I wonder which arena you fly in? ;);)
- Matt
WB: para
Douglas S. Hillman
Andrew Smith (smi...@cris.com) wrote:
:
: Well.. perhaps the SpitXIV...
:
: but the V-1's would be an excellent addition too ...
"I aim for the stars. Sometimes I hit London."
Werner Von Braun
Ruy Horta
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>The forces of Democracy cry out for a new defender! Just think about
>those two worthy opponents tearing up the skys. Plus, IMHO it will be a
>blast to fly! ;)
Before I answer this, I'd like to state that I'm VERY satisfied with
ICI's work. They've just delivered 1 new type and 5 upgrades, not
counting "tweeked" a/c and remodeled art. Thus I find it a bit
childish to demand NEW a/c after less then a week of having v1.10.
IMHO the late war types are about even
4 axis vs 4 allied,
If there's "need" for new a/c, then mainly for early Allied types and
finally Russian A/C (those are being worked on), maybe with the axis
exception of the Bf109E-4 (planned) as the only axis a/c still
"needed" (not talking BUFFs etc).
We can state our preference, this may influence design somewhat, but
its mostly a case of patience. If ICI could give us a MkXIV tomorrow,
I think they would do so.
RH
Michael Toler
: >fats wrote:
: >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
: >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
: I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
: Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
: other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
Besided, ICI would then get to put in the nigh Infamous damage message:
"Fuel leak. Pilot melted"
Ouch out
--
Michael "Ouch" Toler | Don Gaspard Du Lac
Dallas, Texas | Barrony of the Steppes, Ansteorra
Check out my new Web page (WarBirds) at:
http://home1.gte.net/ouch/ouch.html
George Fisher
:]All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
:]total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
:]advantage when they have it.
:]
War is hell, in real life if a pilot saw a kill... I'm sure
he pulled the trigger!
George
__!__
_____(_)_____
] [
AW DOS: NiteRade (1823)
WarBirds: NiteRade (-nr-)
XO VMA696 "DiamondBacks"
E-Mail: gfi...@uniserve.com
Dan & Lori Nowak
zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>fats wrote:
>>
>> zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>
>> >fats wrote:
>>
>> >operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
>> >or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
>> I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
>> Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
>> other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
>>
>> ---
>> fats
>> LeLv 24.
>>
>> >Nice try "FW-boy". ; )
>>
>> >zeno
>
>fats
>
>Hehe, tYer right, it would be a "Riot" -- what kind is another question
>though. Jets might not rule the arena (can't see T&B'n in one & they
>would be an easy vulch takin off) but IMO buffs & 25s would become dead
>meat. Those 4 30mms in the 262 would slice & dice um into little pieces
>in one pass. (Pardon me for doubting the sincerity of your previous
>post.:) )
>
>YFS,
>
>zeno
>XXX
Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
pilot if it leaked, etc.
Just kidding, the jets have no place in the game unless you
want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
Dan 'Rott' Nowak
Flight Officer
401 Squadron
RCAF
no...@vaxxine.com
Dan & Lori Nowak
d...@interaccess.com ( Douglas S. Hillman) wrote:
>William Moran (w...@panix.com) wrote:
>:
>: A friend tells a funny story about oakl flying as gold letting him take
>: off and get up to 7k feet i.e. about the same alt and then shooting
>: him down - this happened 5 times in a row. Now that is sportsmanlike
>: behavior.
>
>
Do all of the new guys still get defaulted to the Reds when
they first sign up? I would hate to put someone off of the game by
vulching the poor sob the first 10 times he tried to take off. This
game is tough enough on the newer players.
Ruy Horta
no...@vaxxine.com (Dan & Lori Nowak) wrote:
> Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
>their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
>explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
>pilot if it leaked, etc.
Did you know that the MK 108s in the had magazines of less then
100rds? So the 100rds is an average. With 4x30mm that would probably
mean that your chance of all guns firing is good, 3 firing, 1 jamming
very likely, but that would still leave a BIG punch (talking Me262
here, Me163 is IMHO one of the biggest mistakes the LW made in WW2,
not to be taken seriously as a combat a/c, as a scientific/test a/c
its wonderfull and very interesting)
With the way you would emply the Me262 you probably won't pull that
many Gs when shooting afterall. The engine is the only real weak link
in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
accuratly model a Me262.
RH
zeno
Ruy Horta wrote:
>
(snip)
. The engine is the only real weak link
> in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
> accuratly model a Me262.
>
> RH
Hehe--
I believe that PYRO has found an indirect way to do this. THe Ki-84 had
notoriously weak landing gear due to inferior metallurgy (sp?). It was
prone to failure on landing.
I have had my gear destroyed by hostile fire 4 times in two days flying
the Ki, more than
has happened in other planes in several months put togther. So, rather
than have the gear randomly fail on landing, IMO Pyro has made the gear
much more vulnerable than usual. (Could just be a coincidence but....)
Same could be done with jet engines.
zeno
XXX
adf...@psu.edu
In article <32aa48d...@vaxxine.com>,
> their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
> explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
> pilot if it leaked, etc.
>
> want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
> Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
>
> Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
> fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
> Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
>
Oh yeah! Hawker Tempest Mk V Series II would be a nice addition!
Andy
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Mike Marini
If late model planes continue to be added *before* we have a better
mix of early planes, it might be time for ICI to split the arenas by
time period ie 1939-1942 vintage planes in one arena '43-44 in another
and finally a separate arena for planes mainly available in the latter
year of the war, ie. German jets/rockets, Spit XIV, Bearcats, etc.
The older planes could still be present in the later arenas, but not
the other way around...
Chry
Sean Malloy
vill...@evitech.fi (fats) wrote:
>zeno <zen...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>operating in another universe performance-wise. Limited use in scenarios
>>or period HAs, sure. Can't see em in the arena.
> I can...*lots* of them. I personaly think Jets would be a riot. And
>Toad will agree on the Me 163.:) They were rather limited for fighting
>other enemy fighters, they wouldn't rule the arena I think.
Give them the same launch limit as bombers -- only from the 'main'
fields -- and you'll see them used for pretty much the same purpose as
they were in WWII -- last-ditch "when it absolutely, positively, has
to be at 20,000 feet _now_" bomber interception.
And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
the difference.
--
Sean R. Malloy | American Non Sequitur
Naval Medical Center | Society
San Diego, CA 92134-5000 |
mal...@cris.com | "We may not make sense,
srma...@snd10.med.navy.mil | but we do like pizza"
*NOTE* Remove the '_' in my email address for replies;
it is there to stop automatic remailers
Hardin Gilbert
Dan & Lori Nowak <no...@vaxxine.com> wrote in article
<32aa48d...@vaxxine.com>...
>
> Sure, bring in the 262 and 163 but bring them in with all of
> their faults too, guns that jamb ever 100 rounds or so, engines that
> explode if the throttle is openned too fast, fuel that disolved the
> pilot if it leaked, etc.
>
Probably no chance of that--random mechanical failures are, well
random, thus making them
a little less likely to be coded in. (Just a guess) In any case, then
you'd have to put in all the other
foibles for all the planes...I just doubt it'll be done. :)
> Just kidding, the jets have no place in the game unless you
> want to change the name from Warbirds to Secret Weapons of the
> Luftwaffe ( and I doubt Lucas Arts will part with the name.).
>
> Bring in the Spit XIV, XVIII and the Tempest V, if only to be
> fair to the long suffering Mk IX drivers in our squad and give the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Mustang and Dora drivers something to really worry about.
Oh, please. The MkIX is extremely competitive with the other
planes available in the arena.
For what it's worth, I agree the Dora is probably a bit much for the
arena. Only about what, 650 - 700
of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
Hobbes
> Oh, please. The MkIX is extremely competitive with the other
> planes available in the arena.
>
> of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
> MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
> like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
YES - !!!!! bring the MkXIV !!!!! - YES
Just doit!
Grave-Digger 8-)
Geof Evans
d...@interaccess.com ( Douglas S. Hillman) writes:
> I will continue to zoom down on them as they're taking off a few times
>first though. Hey, it's a war out there, and if they're foolish enough to
>use poor tactics they deserve what they get. Only after I've hopefully
>shown them the error of their ways will I let them get some parity in the
>fight.
> dobe Doberman <No Squad>
> <VF-17 Hanger-On until I get officially invited>
Back in my days as CFI on OZhost, we had a saying.
"Vultch them mecilessly, they *may* learn something" ;]
Whilst this was a bit of a piss-take....fact is the new guys often
would say "So what are we supposed to do ?" and it never ceased to
amaze me that "Grow a brain" was not given as the default reply in
more occassions than it was ;]
Then, several months later, someone would drag me aside on the radio
and say:
"Will you check these dweebs out, do they never learn ?" whilst adding
seconds later, "Heheh...hey Doc, glad it isn't me down there anymore :)"
There is always gonna be those who think it isn't fair play...fair play
is actually learning to be the guy UP HERE and not DOWN THERE ;]
Doc.
--
___________________________________________________________________
|| Geof Evans !2! Baby! | DOMAIN:rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU ||
|| God is a comedian playing to an audience too frightened to laugh. ||
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tristrim Peter Murnane
Mark Grabski (gra...@intrex.net) wrote:
: CJ Martin wrote:
: >
: >
: > >Purple mega vulchers (hey, at least I am honest about it).
Hmm, when I'm flying out for f3 or f4 (just after we've taken off
the commies :) ), nd there's a lot of reds over the place. I just take off
from 16(?) of 15, or if 15's under attack, from back at the purp rear
base. I don't understand WHY anybody would want to bother trying to take
off from a base under heavy vulching (but i love doing it f3 ;)).
kat...@cris.com
On Sun, 08 Dec 1996 20:35:01 GMT, mal...@cris.com (Sean Malloy)
wrote:
>And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
>radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
>cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
>speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
>rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
>the difference.
The same thing was often true on "jet nights" on AW...a whole bunch of
planes flying around really fast with no ammo left (especially if it
was at all warpy).
--)--Katana-CO---
Ruy Horta
"Hardin Gilbert" <hgil...@iswest.com> wrote:
> For what it's worth, I agree the Dora is probably a bit much for the
>arena. Only about what, 650 - 700
>of them made in WWII? But, I'm enjoying em while they're here. Let the
>MkXIV drivers wait for a "hot" ride
>like all the FW drivers did--for about a year and a half.
Don't say THAT!
Try your numbers again friend:
1500+ D-9s built
4th largest production run Fw fighter after
A-3 2166
A-5 1575
A-8 2000+
You must remember that switching to D-9 production was fairly easy as
it shared most components with the A-8/9. Its another question if many
of these D-9s saw the frontline in the later stages of the war with
fuel shortage etc.
D-9 IS an a/c that is worth modeling in WB, and it saw wide use in the
Luftwaffe. Some requests being made for allied a/c do not share this.
RH
Ruy Horta
mto...@bnr.ca (Michael Toler) wrote:
>Besided, ICI would then get to put in the nigh Infamous damage message:
>"Fuel leak. Pilot melted"
In the 51 it would be
"5hrs of flying....pilot leakin'" :)
Me262 would be nice, Me163 would be next to useless.
RH
Luis Caamano
Dan & Lori Nowak wrote:
>
>
> Do all of the new guys still get defaulted to the Reds when
> they first sign up? I would hate to put someone off of the game by
> vulching the poor sob the first 10 times he tried to take off. This
> game is tough enough on the newer players.
>
It had the opposite effect on me. You see, I was "good at
flight sims (tm)", and I would pretty quickly get bored
with those AI nmes. When I got up the first time in
WB, I got killed in about 10 seconds. Cool! I said, a
new challenge. I went up again, and got vulched right
away while just getting my gear in. I repeated about
6 times and then I said: "This is excellent! Now, let
me read all the info I can and get some training."
That was a Monday, and the next training session was
next Thursday. So, I proceeded to download all the info
I could and read it all before Thursday. When I went
to training, French was the trainer--where is french by
the way? He asked if I had read the FAQ, I said yes.
He asked me if I knew what a split S was, I said yes.
Then he proceeded to show me how to shoot him by
applying lead. He continued giving me more hints, like
how not to get vulched, etc. In my next session in WB,
I died again, but not vulched.
I don't know, it all seemed logical to me.
-=aaCL=-
--
Luis P. Caamano |** luis_c...@hp.com **
Internet and System Security Lab | (404) 648-9508
Hewlett Packard Co. Atlanta, GA, USA | Fax (404) 648-9516
Douglas S. Hillman
Luis Caamano (lpc%issl.at...@hp.com) wrote:
:
: That was a Monday, and the next training session was
: next Thursday. So, I proceeded to download all the info
: I could and read it all before Thursday. When I went
: to training, French was the trainer--where is french by
: the way? He asked if I had read the FAQ, I said yes.
: He asked me if I knew what a split S was, I said yes.
: Then he proceeded to show me how to shoot him by
: applying lead. He continued giving me more hints, like
: how not to get vulched, etc. In my next session in WB,
: I died again, but not vulched.
:
: I don't know, it all seemed logical to me.
EXACTLY what I did too aacl. BEFORE I came online I read ALL the docs
that came with the WB install (so I had an idea on how to use the radio,
operate the B-17, change my ordinance, etc), downloaded ALL the training
lectures printed them and read them several times, went to ALL the web
pages i could find and read all of the helpful hints I found there,
turned OFF easy flight & turned ON blackouts offline and learned how to
get my plane off the ground.
Then my 1st nite online I jumped in the arena for a bit before the
trainers showed up just to get an idea of what went on. Got killed alot,
got a lucky kill, and got the general feel for the place. Then I went
and spent the rest of the night with the trainers.
I think that this intelligent approach to the sim got my very quikly
over the initial learning curve. That and some common sense helps too.
I have NEVER been continnually vulched over & over at a feild, as I have
done to some reds recently. I knew enough to use the outside view from
the tower to check & see if there's several baddies just waiting to kill
me. I knew enough to go sommewhere else if there was. And I knew
enoughh to sneak quikly away if I was taking off from our only base.
dobe Doberman
Mark Grabski
MJes...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Re...@Itg.com.au (Redd) wrote:
> >All these 1 country vs another arguments in terms of vulching are
> >total BS. All of them do it - because all of them press home an
> >advantage when they have it.
> >
>
> main field to find a fight, I'm going to shoot anything that moves.
>
> - Matt
> WB: para
> JG14
I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
Whats going through their heads.
Mark (Herc)
Trevor Myler
Sean Malloy wrote:
<snip>
>
> And it would be hilarious to be able to record the screaming on the
> radio when the people driving it learn about the problems with the
> cyclic rate on the 30mm cannon -- it cycled so slowly relative to the
> speed of the plane that 163 pilots often straddled the target with
> rounds, and were past before they could put in a third round splitting
> the difference.
I thought the 163 carried 20mm cannons, not 30's? No idea which type of
20mm, but I'm sure Roy can tell us :).
Vortex
Trevor Myler
Mike Marini wrote:
>
> If late model planes continue to be added *before* we have a better
> mix of early planes, it might be time for ICI to split the arenas by
> time period ie 1939-1942 vintage planes in one arena '43-44 in another
> and finally a separate arena for planes mainly available in the latter
> year of the war, ie. German jets/rockets, Spit XIV, Bearcats, etc.
>
> The older planes could still be present in the later arenas, but not
> the other way around...
>
> Chry
I think this is the key to solving ICI's arena load concerns. It's very
difficult to get folks out of the main arena and into other more specific
arena formats. We saw this with AW over the years and see it again
with WB's, there really isn't an easy solution imo. Splitting plane types by
era, though, might be the most viable route to go. This of course is simply
all theory right now until a more diverse early war plane set is developed.
But I do think it would work. I'd luv to take a P39 (pr P40, or F4F,
or...well, you get the idea) up against a Zeke and not have to worry about
getting bounced by some steroid pumped late war rig.
Vortex
Trevor Myler
Ruy Horta wrote:
>
> With the way you would emply the Me262 you probably won't pull that
> many Gs when shooting afterall. The engine is the only real weak link
> in the 262 and unless engine failures are modelled in WB it won't ever
> accuratly model a Me262.
>
> RH
This would require a "randomizer" of sorts, and with HT's strong dislike
of such things (from what I'm told anywhoo) I doubt we'll ever see such
features. Heck, we likely won't ever see structural failures modelled
for the same reasons, or at least that's what I was told online by one
of the ICI lads not long ago. Personally, I don't see how randomizing
works into structural weaknesses, but obviously they do.
Vortex
George Fisher
In article <58ghaj$shr$1...@aggedor.rmit.edu.au>, rxx...@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU (Geof Evans) wrote:
:]There is always gonna be those who think it isn't fair play...fair play
:]is actually learning to be the guy UP HERE and not DOWN THERE ;]
:]
:]Doc.
As I've said before on occasion, sometimes in the arena....
"war is hell", chivalry may have played a small part in real
WWII combat where they may have let a pilot go after he's
been to shot up to the point where he's no threat to anyone,
but first you shoot him up. I'm sure they didn't circle a
field waiting for the enemy to get alt, I sure wouldn't
have! :)
George
__!__
_____(_)_____
] [
WarBirds: NiteRade (-nr-)
XO VMA696 "DiamondBacks"
George Fisher
In article <01bbe5a1$c805f6b0$126b86c1@zhpc16496>, "Hobbes" <gl...@datacomm.ch> wrote:
:]YES - !!!!! bring the MkXIV !!!!! - YES
:]
:]
:] Just doit!
sure do it... but I hope that model carries more bullets
than the rest, I still fly around "spraying" my enemas...
damn, guess I need more practice shootin' that stupid drone!
George Fisher
In article <58h337$f...@news.xs4all.nl>, rho...@xs4all.nl wrote:
:]
:]In the 51 it would be
:]"5hrs of flying....pilot leakin'" :)
:]
I wish ICI would model a dump hose or something.... I hate
leaving the plane to go for a leak and come back to find I
bin shot down!
Lewis Moose Gregory
Mark Grabski <gra...@intrex.net> wrote:
>I have to wonder about the people who will dive through ack and
>other fighters to get the crack at the guy just taking off.
>Whats going through their heads.
Their ass, when the ack weenies blow their plane apart. :)
Check six,
Lewis "Moose" Gregory
lgre...@concentric.net
7646...@compuserve.com +------------------------------------------
http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory | WarBirds ID: "moos", for the Greens
-------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
CO 94th Composite Group - "The Flying Squirrels" - WATCH YER NUTS!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Moose's Den -- UNDER CONSTRUCTION -- http://www.concentric.net/~lgregory
George Fisher
In article <58ghuq$hs1$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>, tmur...@arcadia.cs.rmit.edu.au (Tristrim Peter Murnane ) wrote:
:]I don't understand WHY anybody would want to bother trying to take
:]off from a base under heavy vulching (but i love doing it f3 ;)).
Actually, I kinda find it a challenge sometimes. Gotta go up
in a Zeke or KI tho to get any chance at turn&burn, the
other advantage is if/when ya get kilt, you don't havta fly
far to get back in the action. :)
'Course for those that are worried about their score and
wanna land all their ac, then I guess that's not the plan
for them :)
MJes...@aol.com
<Snicker> Now that's what one of my frustrated squadmates said
about your beloved 109 last night ;)