EECH Keymapping
Scharmers
using external programs. I thought I was all done with that
shit back in my CH Throttle days, but OOOOH NO -- both MA and
EECH make me do it. Goddamn limey software, anyway.
--scharmers
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Andrew Dawes
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned
skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return."
-- Leonardo da Vinci.
"Sitting on a fence and watching birds doesn't teach you a thing about
learning how to fly; you've got to get in there and do it"
-- Wilbur Wright
"Good engineers are so scarce, that one must bear with their humours
and forgive them because we cannot be without them."
Lord Galway, 1704, report from Spain to the Board of Ordnance, quoted
in Chandler, The Art of War in the Age of Marlborough, 1976
Andrew Dawes
E-mail : daw...@bigpond.com
andrew...@defence.gov.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi...@potomacnetdelthis.com
> It doesn't seem like it. Sigh. I hate programming joysticks
> using external programs. I thought I was all done with that
> shit back in my CH Throttle days, but OOOOH NO -- both MA and
> EECH make me do it. Goddamn limey software, anyway.
It's why I have not bought either of them. I cannot access the
view keys in them with my WCS2+FCSPro. I could replace them
BUT th;en I'd need to create new setups for all my games
and I'd rather not do that. So if a game has problem keystrokes
and they are not remappable, I simply don't buy the game.
I have enough others to play, and too little time as it is.
Really, this has been a common feature now for years,
there is no excuse for a game not doing it.
That said... any keyboard remmapers I use run outside the game,
which would be easily swapped back to normal after playing?
Vamp
Hi...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com says...
>
> It's why I have not bought either of them. I cannot access the
> view keys in them with my WCS2+FCSPro. I could replace them
> BUT th;en I'd need to create new setups for all my games
> and I'd rather not do that. So if a game has problem keystrokes
> and they are not remappable, I simply don't buy the game.
> I have enough others to play, and too little time as it is.
It seems like everyone has one feature a sim has to have or they won't
buy it. Your missing out big time in this case. Just program your stick
and move on. That's my advice.
Vamp
Bard
stick???
a couple of hours work and you can play two of the best sims out there, or
get REALLY lazy and get some files from someone else.
--
Bard
www.1vvfsc.org
Vancouver Virtual Flight Sim Club
<Hi...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com> wrote in message
news:000006310344...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com...
> Scharmers <scharmer...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > It doesn't seem like it. Sigh. I hate programming joysticks
> > using external programs. I thought I was all done with that
> > shit back in my CH Throttle days, but OOOOH NO -- both MA and
> > EECH make me do it. Goddamn limey software, anyway.
>
> It's why I have not bought either of them. I cannot access the
> view keys in them with my WCS2+FCSPro. I could replace them
> BUT th;en I'd need to create new setups for all my games
> and I'd rather not do that. So if a game has problem keystrokes
> and they are not remappable, I simply don't buy the game.
> I have enough others to play, and too little time as it is.
>
Pμηε§υ
well as any button on the joystick. I use all 34 buttons and almost
never touch the keyboard. I just pulled out the key card, and set up
the stick in about 3 minuets. No problems at all.
Maybe you need to use macros instead of just key presses in the set
up. Especially for any toggle type button. Uncheck the "hold until
released" option in the macro set up.
Hi...@potomacnetdelthis.com
> you haven't bought them because you couldn't be bothered programming
> your stick???
I can't be bothered reprogramming for new sticks for _all_ my games,
just to play one. You can call me lazy, but I'm too busy and the current
commands are hardwired in my subconscious from extensive playing.
Hi...@potomacnetdelthis.com
> Just program your stick
> and move on. That's my advice.
That's the point, it won't program for this game given the weird
keystrokes it uses for view keys. I would have to by new stick, new
throttle and program it for _all_ my games. I like how the gear works
now with the games I have. I have enough games running now, and so
little time anyway, that I won't bother trashing my gear and ingrained
setups for just one other game. It's silly for a modern game not to have
remapping in it. I mean we had that back in dos with the original
Longbow.
Vamp
Hi...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com says...
I gave up on highly programmable sticks a while back. I'm now using a
Sidewinder and the keyboard. I just found that I spent way too much time
tweaking my set-up and not enough time flying. I think the only time I
ever really enjoyed my F22/TQS combo was with Janes F15 which I played
often enough that the set-up became second nature. I still remember
spending lots of time tweaking what keys I put where to the point that I
probably spent more time editing my config files for F15 then flying
Vamp
Pμηε§υ
The software brings up a picture of the throttle and stick and you
point and click. Just click on the picture of the button and then
press the key you want to use. Thats it., do that for 34 buttons and
your done.
Thats why I bought a highly programable set up. After the first 2
minuets of scanning the key card and setting up the stick, I never
have to look at the controls again. I use the same set up skeme for
each type of game so the keys are already pre memorized.
Scharmers
>In article <000007010252...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com>,
>Hi...@PotomacnetDELTHIS.com says...
>> "Bard" <ba...@pissoffspam.planetfortress.com> wrote:
>>
>> > you haven't bought them because you couldn't be bothered
programming
>> > your stick???
>>
>> I can't be bothered reprogramming for new sticks for _all_ my
games,
>> just to play one. You can call me lazy, but I'm too busy and
the current
>> commands are hardwired in my subconscious from extensive
playing.
>
>
using a
>Sidewinder and the keyboard. I just found that I spent way too
much time
>tweaking my set-up and not enough time flying.
Roger that. That's why my Saitek combo is sitting around
collecting dust and I pretty much use my MSFFP exclusively. The
Saitek is the better stick, but Jesus am I tired of spending two
hours per sim (at least) to perfectly tweak a HOTAS setup.
Hi...@potomacnetdelthis.com
> How about using the keyboard? <
That would be fine - if the view commands were sensible and easy - Dare
I Say: like in most games?
But it's all these Control +arrows and whatnot, ALT + the sames...
Having to work those combo's while "flying &/or fighting" is too much.
Why not have simple keys for views like F keys or number keys? Or the
keys on the keypad? 4,6,8,2, w/ or w/o numlock on, etc - Like the other
games! But the keys used in AH & EECH are rather obscure, and impossible
for my WCS2 to program.
Really, every game that involves extensive key commands, especially
those with gobs of combo-keys should have a remapper built into the
game.
nobr...@unleesrjed.clampet
Roger that, I hear you brother. This omission ( keyboard mapping )
allowing for user preferences away from a horrendous set of view
commands, given the state of the flightsim sales market is assinine .
Somebody ar Razorworks has their head so far up their ass that they
are able to look out their eyes directly thru their optic nerve.
Let's see, we have a flightsim market that has fallen thru the drain
with such a force that astronomers are no longer studying black holes
for gravity collapse but flightsim sales. Then we get a company like
Razorworks that was informed about their elitest, and workload heavy,
and in some cases untransposable view keys ( for some sticks ) way
back with Apache vs Havoc. What did Razorworks do ? Frigging nothing .
So they obviously expect us to get new gear, which by the way costs
in excess of $100 bucks to run their sim, and toss our old gear that
runs almost 100 % of the existing sims out there. What a pile of dip
shits. I love Razorworks, and I bought Apache, but I am not going to
toss my gear because these assholes are on some keyboard weirdo
vendetta against a large segment of sticks on the market.
Joe
Enforcer
Say Joe, you are using antics hardware down there. I'm flying EECH on my old
CH HOTAS and no need for key remapping, but wait you're right, no need to
argue, go back flying F-19 on your 8088...
Enforcer.
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
nobr...@unleesrjed.clampet
And your tight asshole gathers lots of ex cons.<g>
Oh , Your so modern. Thanks, then help this dyslexic ass, ie ME, <g>
get a Suncom SFS template written for EECH.
Listen pal, with all due respect as a fellow simmer,please understand
that you have a drain of flightsim sales . Can you understand that ?
You have users that equate Hotas with perhaps Hotass, or hothoes, they
know no difference. We have sims cancelled up the wazooo, and still
we have vestiges of flightsim elitism.
Wake up. The point of some of the discussions around here concerning
sim sales and lack thereof, was/ has been, speculation on how to get
companies to cater to the hardcore, and YET still see the average
smoe. Given that , and a sane appreciation of the ( lack of a )
current market for combatsims, have the requisite corporate neurons
drifted towards horseshoe crab ( Limulus polythemus .excuse sp )
intelligensia despite prior market preferences ? Example,
I find it weird that Razorworks within this rapidly dwindling
flightsim market, finds Suncom less then worthy to support, and weird
shit view controls the norm.
All the best, and check six...at least you can ...
I can't, with a Suncom setup and any Razorwork product without a
template .. anyone got ???
Joe
Jan Loebzien
(J...@bsfilter.com) wrote:
>Somebody ar Razorworks has their head so far up their ass that they
>are able to look out their eyes directly thru their optic nerve.
Apparently your filter is not very efficient, because you're so full
of it. Dissing a developer who actually cares for its product, while
at the same time moaning about a "a flightsim market that has
fallen thru the drain", just because there is one feature that you
don't like ...
Don't buy the game if you don't have the hardware to run it (e.g. a
versatile programmable stick), but calling them assholes ... oh my.
Blaze
Vamp
> Oh , Your so modern. Thanks, then help this dyslexic ass, ie ME, <g>
> get a Suncom SFS template written for EECH.
Another good thread gone to hell.
Vamp
nobr...@unleesrjed.clampet
wrote:
Lets take a look at the following shall we.
I have every sim ever made since 1992. Yes every.
Almost all of them use keyboard commands that are easily mapped to
sticks without weird cntrl, alt , or shift keys also added on. The
ones that do for some reason are almost exclusively UK releases.
That one feature that you mentioned above is the view system. Without
the ability to easily map this to stick or throttle, the user is up
shit's creek. The Suncom Talon hat's are not POV, and can't be used as
such. The SFS throttle is very finiky about weird cntrl alt etc key
commands. No templates are available for the SFS for any Razorwork
product that I know of. As a user and customer I have the right to be
pissed when a developer gets it so right, and yet cuts their own
customer base because some idiot on their developement team is some
tight ass elitest that thinks assinine keymapping is some sort of
manely right of passage for flight simmers.
IMHO this is idiotic, hurts sales, and reduces playability, and
enjoyment.
No one in their right mind thinks that the average smoe is going to
spend 2 hours mapping keys to a programmable stick. No one in their
right mind should think that it is SOP for a developer to code keys
that leave a large percentage of available quality gear out of the
loop. Unless some one can tell me the reason, and it had better be a
good one, there is NO REASON for having view keys assigned weird
combinations. I understand that the QWERTY keyboard has only so many
keys to assign so many functions, but the view keys by their very
nature are of paramount importance. Telling me that I should not buy
the game is a smart answer given today's market. Pal if I can play
Janes F 15, Falcon 4, Janes F-18, Longbow I, II, MS Combatsim, EAW,
Janes USAF, Janes WW II Fighters, and almost all my other sims with
sane view keys that are easily mapped to my Suncom Talon, a quality
stick, then why can't Razorworks do the same, and provide intelligent
key mapping ? It is very very telling that usually only UK sims have
assinine key mapping. Is it that perhaps vestiges of Englsih elitism
might be afoot, ie make sims less then an out of the box playable
experience for the unwashed masses ?
FWIW, I am going to e-mail Razorworks, and plead my case to them
directly. I CAN be civil when I want to, really, I swear, opps I guess
I can't do that right? <g>
Joe
nobr...@unleesrjed.clampet
wrote:
Hey Vamp, I thought it appropriate to say this.
Bite me
love
Joe
Vamp
nobr...@unleesrjed.Clampet says...
>
> Bite me
>
> love
> Joe
Welcome to my kill file Joe.
Vamp
nobr...@unleesrjed.clampet
wrote:
Oh heavens to Betsy,
I'm sure I'll lose sleep over this.
Joe
Jan-Albert van Ree
> I gave up on highly programmable sticks a while back. I'm now using a
> Sidewinder and the keyboard. I just found that I spent way too much time
> tweaking my set-up and not enough time flying. I think the only time I
> ever really enjoyed my F22/TQS combo was with Janes F15 which I played
> often enough that the set-up became second nature. I still remember
> spending lots of time tweaking what keys I put where to the point that I
> probably spent more time editing my config files for F15 then flying
Why not take an alternative route??? Pick one layout you like, and program
each game to work with that given layout.
In all my games, hat 4 on the F-22 Pro is for countermeasures, hat 1 is
views, S4 switch is autopilot toggle etc etc. This way I only spend about
20-30 min. per game to make a good file (Fox Two Pro/Fox One really helps,
and most companies already include TM files, of which the macro file can
normally be re-used without problems) and I never have to remember any real
odd keys.
Currently flying Falcon4, Apache-Havoc (just got started...), USAF and
sometimes TAW. All pretty much with the same button layout. haven't had any
problems so far using the wrong button in a game :-)
--
Jan-Albert "Anvil" van Ree | http://www.nl.3dgamers.com
3D Sims Archive maintainer | http://www.3dgamers.com
Thrustmaster Resource Center | http://www.3dgamers.com/tmresourcecenter/
Jan Loebzien
(J...@bsfilter.com) wrote:
>Lets take a look at the following shall we.
<snip>
No need for lengthy discussions, you made yourself clear about
the missing key mapping, and I'm not saying it isn't a valid point.
But, calling them assholes won't do anything for you.
>FWIW, I am going to e-mail Razorworks, and plead my case to them
>directly. I CAN be civil when I want to, really, I swear, opps I guess
>I can't do that right? <g>
What's the point in acting like a jerk in the public and being civil
in direct conversations? Especially if the one you're going to email
is likely to read your public statements as well?
Blaze
Vamp
says...
>
> Why not take an alternative route??? Pick one layout you like, and program
> each game to work with that given layout.
You are absolutely right and that is the way to go. In either case, most
of these sims emphasize different things. For the basic buttons,
countermeasures, looking etc, a programmable stick is great. If you take
it not much further then that, they can be wonderful. I still have a
Logitech Interceptor sitting in the closet, which I would use more often
if it had rudder control with the twistable stick. I think my main gripe
was wit the F22/TQS combo that for some reason I felt I needed to use
most buttons with it. To do that you end up doing lots of fly, exit,
reprogram, fly. I always put all the stuff in the same place but getting
the buttons to work correctly was not trivial. Some Sims expect you to
hold the button down, other just push and release etc etc. Having a one
set-up for all games was not an easy undertaking. I'm convinced that
people that really love their HOTSA setups spend more time programming
them then they realize. I love flying the sims and my attention span is
not infinite. As an example I think F4 is the best but I have yet to have
the attention span necessary to stick with it through an entire campaign.
This means I play a sim for maybe a week and I then go off and play
something else and come back to it later. My playing stile does not lend
itself to sticks where I also need to invest heavy time programming
before I can even play the game.
Vamp
Bard
J...@bsfilter.com <nobr...@unleesrjed.Clampet> wrote in message
news:3988750f...@nntp.mindspring.com...
hows that for going for the jugular =P
Hi...@potomacnetdelthis.com
> No one in their
> right mind should think that it is SOP for a developer to code keys
> that leave a large percentage of available quality gear out of the
> loop. Unless some one can tell me the reason, and it had better be a
> good one, there is NO REASON for having view keys assigned weird
> combinations. I understand that the QWERTY keyboard has only so many
> keys to assign so many functions, but the view keys by their very
> nature are of paramount importance.
What Joe said.
> Telling me that I should not buy
> the game is a smart answer given today's market. Pal if I can play
> Janes F 15, Falcon 4, Janes F-18, Longbow I, II, MS Combatsim, EAW,
> Janes USAF, Janes WW II Fighters, and almost all my other sims with
> sane view keys that are easily mapped to my Suncom Talon, a quality
> stick, then why can't Razorworks do the same, and provide intelligent
> key mapping ?
I was actually thinking of retiring my TM FCS Pro. I was going to buy
a Suncomm with the twin hats. So I have to choose... do I give up my
stick and also give up my next choice, both simply because one game
requires it? So far I have not. There's a lot of good games on my drive
right now. More than I have time for by a lot! And I still have not yet
bought Mig Alley or JF18, both of which will work fine with my gear when
I do. So I'm not hurting for pc sim entertainment w/o the current
razorworks sim.
Really now, weirdly obscure VIEW keys, no remapper?
No excuse. No sale.
And nothing personal against the company.