SU-27 2.0 @ ssionline.com

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Yatsu

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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Has anyone seen the new video of SU-27 2.0 @ ssionline.com?!?! The best
looking graphics for a PC game I have ever seen, much less a flight sim...I
can't wait for this one.


Eric

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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Totally agree! There is a pic on there website that was taken from the AVI
where the SU-27 was passing a mountain on the mountain's right. I found it
hard to tell it was a computer-based sim!!!

Of course, like the movies, the trailers only highlight the good parts, so
we'll have to see if it lives up to expectations, but I'll be the first on
my block to try it out!

Eric "Mad Dog" Marlow

Pete Hawk

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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Simpy THE BEST looking sim EVER!!! No Kidding! Unbelieveable!

Check out the screen shots

http://www.ssionline.com/games/su27_20/index.html

Pete

Eric wrote in message <#s1bPLUE9GA.296@upnetnews04>...

Fritzly

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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What is the exact address to download this file?
Thank you and Merry Christmas
Fritzly
Yatsu <*ya...@nospam.geocities.com"> wrote in message
<01bd1112$a17dc660$500d...@gibbsjoh.user.msu.edu>...

Guillaume Lang

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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http://www.su27-flanker.com/
Definitely incredible...

Guillaume Lang

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
(NOSPAM to be erased)
Beware The Karakuk, for He shall be Thy Master...

Pete Hawk

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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Ok, just downloaded and watched the 24 meg AVI file (only took 70
minutes), sound didn't work but boy it looks fantastic. This sim is going
to be screaming for Voodoo-2 I can tell. Looks very detailed, extremely
real looking. Can't wait SSI!!

Pete

Get it here...
http://www.ssionline.com/games/su27_20/index.html

Fritzly wrote in message ...

Kingpin

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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I thought that they looked like a Rendered Screenshot (FireGL) and I know
that FireGL are just not up to par for dynamix GL (Games) but they are great
For Scripted GL (toy story Etc.)


Rhino-209th VFS wrote in message <01bd11a0$9feeaa60
>From what I've heard it is not 3dfx enhanced. OpenGL. 1.5's smooth graphics
>were done with FireGL cards.
>
>So maybe a Voodoo 2 for F4 and a fire gl for 2d and SU27 2.0.
>
>

Phil Surfer Worthen

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Dec 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/25/97
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In article <01bd11a0$9feeaa60$58a1...@babineau.pacbell.net>,
babineau@*pacbell.net* says...

> From what I've heard it is not 3dfx enhanced. OpenGL. 1.5's smooth graphics
> were done with FireGL cards.
>
> So maybe a Voodoo 2 for F4 and a fire gl for 2d and SU27 2.0.

Well, meebee Eagle Dynmanics will take the route iMOL is taking. iMOL
originally announced that the 3D version of Warbirds 2.0 would be an
OpenGL version.

My understanding is now that they did a GLIDE version.

I sure hope Eagle makes that same, smart decision.

-Surfer

--

Phil "Surfer" Worthen
---------------------
phi...@pacbell.net

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/26/97
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> Ok, just downloaded and watched the 24 meg AVI file (only took 70
> minutes), sound didn't work but boy it looks fantastic. This sim is
going
> to be screaming for Voodoo-2 I can tell. Looks very detailed, extremely
> real looking. Can't wait SSI!!

From what I've heard it is not 3dfx enhanced. OpenGL. 1.5's smooth graphics

Yatsu

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Dec 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/26/97
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Actually, the official SSI website says the game will use Direct 3d. It
does look as if it will need Voodoo 2 (or the next RIva...), however, to
pump out that kind of performance. I'm betting these videos are with AGP
enabled, too, based on the extreme texture detail in the land and 3d
objects.

Rhino-209th VFS <babineau@*pacbell.net*> wrote in article
<01bd11a0$9feeaa60$58a1...@babineau.pacbell.net>...

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/26/97
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> I thought that they looked like a Rendered Screenshot (FireGL) and I know
> that FireGL are just not up to par for dynamix GL (Games) but they are
great
> For Scripted GL (toy story Etc.)

I have no idea what your talking about. All I know is that 1.5 was done
with OpenGL.

I guess you gathered that I don't do graphics apps for a living.

yikes!

Rhino

David O. Corsi

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Dec 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/26/97
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yeah but can you imagine the specs needed to run that game with a 15fps?
maybe a PII 266 with Voodoo 2???? With AGP on??? Ick.

pap...@ix.nospam.com

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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But dave can you imagine how cool that would be......???? Those
graphics....sunset...wind blowing....clouds....CARRIER....oh my.

PAPA DOC

>yeah but can you imagine the specs needed to run that game with a 15fps?
>maybe a PII 266 with Voodoo 2???? With AGP on??? Ick.
>


Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Infamous
Pink Flamingo Pilot...
pap...@ix.netcom.com

John Lewis

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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On 26 Dec 1997 01:49:32 GMT, "Rhino-209th VFS"
<babineau@*pacbell.net*> wrote:

>> Ok, just downloaded and watched the 24 meg AVI file (only took 70
>> minutes), sound didn't work but boy it looks fantastic. This sim is
>going
>> to be screaming for Voodoo-2 I can tell. Looks very detailed, extremely
>> real looking. Can't wait SSI!!
>
>From what I've heard it is not 3dfx enhanced. OpenGL. 1.5's smooth graphics
>were done with FireGL cards.
>
>So maybe a Voodoo 2 for F4 and a fire gl for 2d and SU27 2.0.
>
>

If SSI don't do an Open GL (or preferably Glide-specific) port
optimized for Voodoo1(& 2), they will have shot themselves
in the foot big-time. LB2, JF3, WC Prophecy all demonstrate the
spectacular graphics and frame-rate that Glide/3dfx gives
to a 3D game. LB2 and Prophecy are also spurring significant
sales of 3dfx cards, another good reason for a 3dfx-specific
port.

As for Fire GL -- are they stocked in CompUSA or Egghead
or any other of the major retailers?? If not, then why should
SU27 V2.0 be ported to a card that few have ever
encountered ?

John Lewis

John Lewis


Eric J. Joiner, Jr.

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:20:09 GMT, joh...@teleport.com (John Lewis)
wrote:

>
>If SSI don't do an Open GL (or preferably Glide-specific) port
>optimized for Voodoo1(& 2), they will have shot themselves
>in the foot big-time. LB2, JF3, WC Prophecy all demonstrate the
>spectacular graphics and frame-rate that Glide/3dfx gives
>to a 3D game. LB2 and Prophecy are also spurring significant
>sales of 3dfx cards, another good reason for a 3dfx-specific
>port.
>
>As for Fire GL -- are they stocked in CompUSA or Egghead
>or any other of the major retailers?? If not, then why should
>SU27 V2.0 be ported to a card that few have ever
>encountered ?
>
>John Lewis
>

The Monster Fire GL card isnt so rare. CompUSA in my area
(Atlanta) does carry them. However agree with all of yr points.
While I do know that the SU27 developers use Fire GL in
their machines, I suspect that this game will be 3Dfx-able for
us regular M3D types!...or it will be off to the gulag with them!!

Eric

David O. Corsi

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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yeah but will they let you paint your plane pink? ;-)

David

pap...@ix.nospam.com wrote in message
<34a4a39a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...

pap...@ix.nospam.com

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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Yup SSI has got me worried on this one....they said they MIGHT do a
direct port for the Voodoo...if the demand is there....only problem is
that I think they are judging demand by the response on the mail
list...only problem with that is that the guys that are on the list
are there because they are flying a certain polygon sim....oops.
Voodoo cards are pretty slim around those parts...with some even
arguing that Permedia 2 chips are "better" than Voodoo....wha..???

Consider as well the lack of a mini port for the Voodoo cards with 1.5
OpenGL version.....the smoothed graphics. Why not..??? Sure would have
been nice to see those graphics from the cockpit....but never
happened.

PAPA DOC


>
>As for Fire GL -- are they stocked in CompUSA or Egghead
>or any other of the major retailers?? If not, then why should
>SU27 V2.0 be ported to a card that few have ever
>encountered ?
>
>John Lewis
>
>
>

>John Lewis

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
to

> that I think they are judging demand by the response on the mail
> list...only problem with that is that the guys that are on the list


As I understand it, Diamond Monster 3D has 40% of the market share for 3D
accelerators. Since this doesn't include other 3DFX based cards, I'd say
it's pretty staggering that Glide would not be supported.


--

Jeffery "Rhino" Babineau
209th VFS Delta Hawks
Stockton, CA
USA
http://www.deltahawks.org


Alan Chandler

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Dec 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/27/97
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On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:20:09 GMT joh...@teleport.com (John Lewis)
wrote:

>On 26 Dec 1997 01:49:32 GMT, "Rhino-209th VFS"
><babineau@*pacbell.net*> wrote:
>
>>From what I've heard it is not 3dfx enhanced. OpenGL. 1.5's smooth graphics
>>were done with FireGL cards.
>>
>>So maybe a Voodoo 2 for F4 and a fire gl for 2d and SU27 2.0.
>>
>>
>

>If SSI don't do an Open GL (or preferably Glide-specific) port
>optimized for Voodoo1(& 2), they will have shot themselves
>in the foot big-time. LB2, JF3, WC Prophecy all demonstrate the
>spectacular graphics and frame-rate that Glide/3dfx gives
>to a 3D game. LB2 and Prophecy are also spurring significant
>sales of 3dfx cards, another good reason for a 3dfx-specific
>port.
>

I haven't seen any mention in this newsgroup of what I feel is a
significant (for games) announcement on Microsoft and SGI's web site.
OpenGL will be built into Direct3D (as an API set such that you can
draw using OpenGL to a DirectDraw surface). There will be a software
only renderer (I think this is the SGI one which has been optimised
more than the Microsoft current one) and a model which allows 3D
hardware manufacturers to plug their hardware interfaces into the
bottom end of a driver. Release of this (into DirectX 6.0?) sometime
in the first couple of Quarters if '98 (I can't remember the details
at the moment)

I would imagine, although you never can tell, that Microsoft/SGI will
be marketing all this into the games industry quite hard and that the
3D hardware developers would be getting their drivers ready - but I
would also think that developers such as Eagle (with a commitment to
OpenGL as we have seen in the past) are also being wooed to go this
route. Maybe that's why SSI have put that they will support Direct3D
on their site?

The other important point about this arrangement is that for the first
time with Direct3D you will see a route for a hardware manufacturer to
build geometry setup support (as happens now in the Diamond FireGL
card) into hardware and perhaps take away some of the load from hard
pressed CPUs!



Magpie

al...@chandler.u-net.com
http://www.chandler.u-net.com

Feng Wang

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Dec 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/28/97
to

>On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:20:09 GMT joh...@teleport.com (John Lewis)
>wrote:
>>If SSI don't do an Open GL (or preferably Glide-specific) port
>>optimized for Voodoo1(& 2), they will have shot themselves

The OpenGL driver for the 3dfx is in its beta version now.
When Voodo 2 and Flanker2.0 are out next year, I guess we will
have an official OpenGL driver for 3dfx chips. But from
the poor performance of MS Flightsim 98 (using Direct3D instead of
Glide) compared to other Glide enhanced sims (Longbow II, Ef2000),
the native Glide API is still faster than the high level API like
OpenGL or Direct3D.


--
fw


Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/29/97
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> Glide) compared to other Glide enhanced sims (Longbow II, Ef2000),
> the native Glide API is still faster than the high level API like
> OpenGL or Direct3D.

Sure would like you to qualify this. Glide is much faster than d3d but why
do you say glide is faster than OPenGL? Have you even seen a real OpenGL
game? I mean Using an OPenGL card, i.e. FireGl, on a real OpenGL game is
very fast.

I DO NOT mean 3dfx's beta OpenGL support either. It is very difficult to
compare Glide to 3dfx without OpenGl to an OpenGL card.

Bas Jansen

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Dec 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/29/97
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Alan Chandler wrote:

> OpenGL as we have seen in the past) are also being wooed to go this
> route. Maybe that's why SSI have put that they will support Direct3D
> on their site?

Alan...

This is a quote from ssionline;

"Taking full advantage of Microsoft's DirectX™ and DirectPlay™
technologies, SU-27 Flanker™ 2.0 offers stunning graphics and
streamlined playability"

There is no mention of D3D anywhere... I voiced the concern about D3D on
the mailing list and Jim assured us that OpenGL would be used for the 3D
graphics engine. They will use some libs from DirectX (such as
DirectPlay) but not D3D (thank god...).

Regards
Bas Jansen

Kevin "Viper" Buchanan

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Dec 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/29/97
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David O. Corsi wrote in message <6833mh$cnm$1...@hirame.wwa.com>...

>yeah but will they let you paint your plane pink? ;-)
>


I can just see the headlines -- "Papadoc boycotting Flanker 2.0 due to lack
of a pink Flanker texture"

Hehehehe, that'll be the day!

:-)
-----
Kevin "Viper" Buchanan
Flight Sim Fanatic
Proudly Addicted to Longbow 2

Randy Shrader

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Dec 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/29/97
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Kevin "Viper" Buchanan wrote:
>
> David O. Corsi wrote in message <6833mh$cnm$1...@hirame.wwa.com>...
> >yeah but will they let you paint your plane pink? ;-)
> >
>
> I can just see the headlines -- "Papadoc boycotting Flanker 2.0 due to lack
> of a pink Flanker texture"
>
> Hehehehe, that'll be the day!

Yeah, he'll be boycotting it because it has _any_ textures at all! ;)
Damn polygon guys! Oh well, I can remember the days when I had to turn
the detail down on Aces over Europe because the flak killed the
framerate . . .

Randy

pap...@ix.nospam.com

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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From everything Ive ever read on the subject...using Glide for the
Voodoo is faster than anything else that you could use on the
Voodoo...including OpenGL. Why..? I guess its because the Glide API is
written FOR the Voodoo...

The Fire GL your talking about...I guess would be the Permedia 2
Chipset right...? If so take a look at the new Benchmarks that Brian
Hook put up for Quake2. The Voodoo 2 is faster than everything
else...and the Voodoo 1 is faster than everything except the Voodoo2.
So given that using Glide is better for the Voodoo...then Glide is
faster...wow. That was convoluted.

PAPA DOC


>
>Sure would like you to qualify this. Glide is much faster than d3d but why
>do you say glide is faster than OPenGL? Have you even seen a real OpenGL
>game? I mean Using an OPenGL card, i.e. FireGl, on a real OpenGL game is
>very fast.
>
>I DO NOT mean 3dfx's beta OpenGL support either. It is very difficult to
>compare Glide to 3dfx without OpenGl to an OpenGL card.
>
>
>--
>
>
>
>Jeffery "Rhino" Babineau
>209th VFS Delta Hawks
>Stockton, CA
>USA
>http://www.deltahawks.org
>

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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Hey you whacky cajun,


> The Fire GL your talking about...I guess would be the Permedia 2
> Chipset right...?

You know, I have no idea what chipset is on the FireGL. I just know that
this was one of the few OpenGL cards on the market at the time of SU 1.5
testing.


> If so take a look at the new Benchmarks that Brian
> Hook put up for Quake2. The Voodoo 2 is faster than everything
> else..

duh.

>.and the Voodoo 1 is faster than everything except the Voodoo2.
> So given that using Glide is better for the Voodoo...then Glide is
> faster...wow. That was convoluted.

Yeah but.....

What I am saying is what IF the game was written FOR and OpenGL card with
OpenGL as the API. I think we saw that SU 1.5 pretty much sucked in the
frame rate department since we were all using NON OpenGL cards. It ws
midway through testing that we got BETA versions of 3dfx's OpenGL driver.
Even those didn't seem to help much.

I heard (never saw it though) that frame rates on FireGL cards were silk
compared to ANY other 3d API or interpretation thereof.

Convoluted back at you.....your move. ;)


Rhino

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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> to a 3D game. LB2 and Prophecy are also spurring significant
> sales of 3dfx cards, another good reason for a 3dfx-specific
> port.

I'd have to agree. 2 of my suppliers were sold out. Canpous 3d cards had
been sold out for weeks and were not expected to be in stock until late
December.


> As for Fire GL -- are they stocked in CompUSA or Egghead
> or any other of the major retailers?? If not, then why should
> SU27 V2.0 be ported to a card that few have ever
> encountered ?


I guess they liked the performance of the card and programming in that API.
I know one guy with a FireGL and he said SU was smooth as glass with the
smoothed graphics.


--

Jeffery "Rhino" Babineau
209th VFS Delta Hawks
Stockton, CA
USA
http://www.deltahawks.org

(remove the panties from my e-mail address when replying via e-mail)

Patrick Scott

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
to

OK, I'll leap into the fray -
OpenGL is a robust API. However to fully maximize its potential you need two
things: a robust OS (Windows 95 is NOT, and Windows NT 4.0 - hah!) and a
s-hot card.
The Permedia 2 is an entry level "prosumer" grade card. It is not the ideal
OpenGL solution. It does static rendering just fine, but jack up the pixels
and polygons, and you'll see it slow down.
The Voodoo and Voodoo 2 are superb for what they do - push polygons and
pixels at incredible rates. For complex polygon-fills and per pixel blends
that games such as flight sims pull, a "To the Iron" API such as Glide
offers phenomenal performance at the cost of compatability.

OK, now that I've said all that - what's better EF2000 v2.0 or F22 ADF or
Longbow 2, or F22 Raptor by Novalogic? Papa Doc?
-----
Patrick Scott
Talon Systems
S-Hot Gaming Rigs

Rhino-209th VFS wrote in message

<01bd14d9$217f6de0$1aa1...@babineau.pacbell.net>...

Rhino-209th VFS

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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> OK, now that I've said all that - what's better EF2000 v2.0 or F22 ADF or
> Longbow 2, or F22 Raptor by Novalogic? Papa Doc?


I'd rate them like this.

1. EF2000 V2.0 (more complete than ADF)
2. LB2 (only #2 because it's a chopper)
3. F22 ADF ( great graphics but space age avionics and the difficulty in
fighting the aircraft close in make EF better)

many skipped in between.

15. F22 Raptor. ( fly the demo)

pap...@ix.nospam.com

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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Well its not so much that its being programmed for that card...it
isnt. Its being programmed with OpenGL...and currently the permedia2
(yup thats the chipset being discussed here Rhino..<G>) has a OpenGL
driver...thats working. Voodoo is working on a driver...but they have
already stated that they will NEVER support OpenGL with a full
implementation of OpenGL...damn everytime we get to talking this shit
it gets wierd...anyway. Its something to do with Microsoft from the
talk...but 3dfx will release a driver...for opengl indeed have already
released 2 versions. Alpha and Beta...but no release candidates that
Ive heard about.

Now Im sure that the guys working on Flanker 2.0 have ALOT more
powerful cards than the FireGl (permedia 2 chipset) probably a Glint
or something along those lines. But Im rapidly getting out of my
knowledge here and defer to my betters on this.....<VBG>

Needless to say if the Voodoo2 gets a working OpenGL driver going it
will be the card of choice...since it currently blows all consumer
cards out of the water in Performance.

PAPA DOC


>
>I guess they liked the performance of the card and programming in that API.
>I know one guy with a FireGL and he said SU was smooth as glass with the
>smoothed graphics.
>
>
>--
>
>Jeffery "Rhino" Babineau
>209th VFS Delta Hawks
>Stockton, CA
>USA
>http://www.deltahawks.org
>(remove the panties from my e-mail address when replying via e-mail)

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

pap...@ix.nospam.com

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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My list of current favorites is....and dont laugh because wierdly
enough I still love and fly Flanker 1.5 alot. Anyway...
1. Flanker 1.5
2. Longbow2
3. Flying Corps Gold
4. distant fourth at that...EF 2.0

I wont be buying ADF or TAW or any other F-22 sim...that plane and
others like it dont interest me in the least. Hell I appreciate and
love the fact that the real planes are as advanced as they are...that
way cool people like Robey, Sean and others will make it back home
from battle...indeed I would prefer that they not have to even leave
their couchs at home to do battle...just push a button you know...boom
bad guy gone....

But do I want a simulator of that.......NAH Dont think so...iF-22
proved to me that all seeing all knowing combat is just not very much
fun to me. I like having to adjust everything...I like it that skill
is the reason someone has me locked up in H2H....I like it that skill
is the reason I break that lock...and kill him. Anyway....longwinded
as usual...sorry feel strongly about Future Aircraft battle being
simulated. Still waiting for the definitive Phantom F4 Sim...

PAPA DOC

>OK, now that I've said all that - what's better EF2000 v2.0 or F22 ADF or
>Longbow 2, or F22 Raptor by Novalogic? Papa Doc?

>-----
>Patrick Scott
>Talon Systems
>S-Hot Gaming Rigs
>

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

Feng Wang

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
to

In article <01bd1428$7ec92240$b3a1...@babineau.pacbell.net>, babineau@*pacbell.net* says...

>Sure would like you to qualify this. Glide is much faster than d3d but why
>do you say glide is faster than OPenGL? Have you even seen a real OpenGL
>game? I mean Using an OPenGL card, i.e. FireGl, on a real OpenGL game is
>very fast.
>
>I DO NOT mean 3dfx's beta OpenGL support either. It is very difficult to
>compare Glide to 3dfx without OpenGl to an OpenGL card.

3dfx's native (down to the metal) API is Glide, not OpenGL. I said OpenGL and D3D
on 3dfx card is slower than the native Glide. I did not say OpenGL on FireGL is
slower than the Glide on 3dfx.

--
fw


Olin K. McDaniel

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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On 31 Dec 1997 05:33:27 GMT, fw...@mail.planet.eon.net (Feng Wang)
wrote:

As a matter of interest to me, what in 'ell does all that mean? It's
just so much gibberish, for all I understand. The best I can glean is
with my Canopus Pure3D, I must have SOME sort of 3d capability, but
have no idea if it's good, bad or in between. Is it just possible
that someone can make some sense out of this, or even less likely make
a standard out of it, so we don't have to wade thru all this crap?

Olin McDaniel


pap...@ix.netcom.com

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97