A10 Cuba
A lil' spec o' love
Ok, I grabbed this one RIGHT away.... read all the reviews for it on the
mac and it sounded incredible.... real instrumentation, a REAL campaign
that goes on around you that you can directly effect (aka Tornado on
Speed), super fluid framerate....
Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet? NOTHING. only 2 pages in the CD
insert explain what the cockpit dials are. Ok fine... so I install it,
boot it up, and notice that there are only 12 non-linked canned
missions. 12 MISSIONS! No awesome campaign, nothing. So, I gear up, take
off, and I LOVE it. It flies like a dream, and there is alot of stuff
happening in the theatre. Tanks shooting, trucks driving, C130's leaving
contrails.... too bad I have NO IDEA how to fly it.
I promptly returned it to the store hoping there had been some mishap
and I happened to get a box with no manual (and the real campaign files
missing ;) ). Nope. There is simply NOTHING. This sim had potential to
be the best since EF2K. Too bad.
-Jesse / DNX
Jaggernaut
A lil' spec o' love <je...@dimensionx.com> wrote:
>I promptly returned it to the store hoping there had been some mishap
>and I happened to get a box with no manual (and the real campaign files
>missing ;) ). Nope. There is simply NOTHING. This sim had potential to
>be the best since EF2K. Too bad.
>-Jesse / DNX
Sure you didn't buy the demo instead of the full game? ;-)
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Note: If sending me email then remove the asterisk at the end of my
email address. This has been added to to stop the spamming hordes from
retrieving my correct email address from usenet postings.
est...@usa.net
Am I the only person playing A10 Cuba? I just got it and it is great.
I got Heavy into hellcats on the MAC years ago. Eric Parker has done a
wonderful job on this one. The flight dynamics feel incredibly
realistic and the frame rate is outstanding. I run 1024x768 and I
could swear the rate is faster then any other sim I have (my guess is
30+). Granted the scenery is sparse but I prefer it. Reminds me of
SU27 but more fun. I'll post another review once I have played it
more. If you like realism I think you will like this one.
Steve
Hardin Gilbert
A lil' spec o' love (je...@dimensionx.com) wrote:
:
: I promptly returned it to the store hoping there had been some mishap
: and I happened to get a box with no manual (and the real campaign files
: missing ;) ). Nope. There is simply NOTHING. This sim had potential to
: be the best since EF2K. Too bad.
:
: -Jesse / DNX
Hehe--maybe they were just trying to one-up MSI's Back to
Baghdad. ;)
James Rootsey
I would like to know what others think of the graphics engine in A-10 Cuba?
I personally LOVE it. I've got a P133 w/ 64MB and a Matrox Millenia, and I
can't tell you how sick I am of poor frame rates in flight sims. This game
has absolutely NO textures, and it's a great thing to behold. Something
happened to flight sims since the Tornado days that has just killed the
flying experience. Every sim that I have purchased has cost me hours of
"tweaking" the graphics mode to my liking. Always a compromise between
looks and speed. For example, in Longbow I adjusted the texture resolution
down, disabled shadows, removed smoke trails (effects) and disabled
perspective correction to acheive a satisfactory (and not even great) frame
rate. But now those "beautiful" graphics look like a big quilt of colored
squares that distort as I get too close.
I wish there was a demo of A-10 so that everyone could appreciate what I
now do. I run the game at 1024x768 with a smokin' frame rate, and I can't
believe the difference it makes. It's nice to see a plane hundreds of yards
away that you can still make out the details (and manouvers) without
viewing it in slide show format.
I guess I could go on, but I guess you just have to see it to understand.
The thing is, it's not likely that many of you will. I realized when I
purchased it that it just can't compete with the "flash" of others. Sitting
right next to A10 was Jet Fighter 3. One look at the back of the boxes and
you know which one people are going to buy. It's just to bad that both
don't show the current frame rate for the given scene.
Anyways, I hope that some of you at least give A10 Cuba a look.
Rick
six...@worldnet.att.net
On 22 Nov 1996 03:16:33 GMT, "James Rootsey"
<rroo...@cyberportal.net> wrote:
Did your copy come with a manual ?
Does it have only 12 missions ?
How much was it ?
Thanks
Bill
Maury Markowitz
> Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
> the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
> Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet? NOTHING. only 2 pages in the CD
> insert explain what the cockpit dials are. Ok fine... so I install it,
> boot it up, and notice that there are only 12 non-linked canned
> missions. 12 MISSIONS! No awesome campaign, nothing
Yup, this has always been a problem with Parsoft, even the early games
like Hellcats.
> off, and I LOVE it. It flies like a dream, and there is alot of stuff
> happening in the theatre. Tanks shooting, trucks driving, C130's leaving
> contrails.... too bad I have NO IDEA how to fly it.
Try to fine my A-10 Demo training manual. You'll find it very helpful.
Still my Mac version did come with a manual, it's odd that the PC version
doesn't.
Maury
Robear
In article <maury-23119...@194.125.100.1>,
I bought this one because the Mac guys touted it as the be-all of
sims, and they felt that no pc sim could approach it. At least that's
how I recall the discussion early this summer. So far, I'm not all that
impressed, although I will dig into it over the next few weeks. It
does seem to run well in 1024, I'll give it that; but thenall I've done
is putter aroudn the base.
David Pipes
Maury Markowitz
In article <5746mc$1...@access1.digex.net>, rob...@access1.digex.net
(Robear) wrote:
> I bought this one because the Mac guys touted it as the be-all of
> sims, and they felt that no pc sim could approach it. At least that's
> how I recall the discussion early this summer. So far, I'm not all that
> impressed, although I will dig into it over the next few weeks. It
> does seem to run well in 1024, I'll give it that; but thenall I've done
> is putter aroudn the base.
Here's the plus/minus's:
Plus:
Speed - graphics performance is superb
Layout - airports and landforms well mapped out
Weapons - no bogus characterists here
Flight model - best I've ever used, wait until you get into an inverted spin
Damage model - WarBird's is better over all, but flying about with one
wing shot off is a lot of fun
Solid modeler - every bit of the plane is "live", I've clipped wingtips on
tanks and such
Action - in your face all the time, no pause for a breath
Missions - lots of stuff happening all the time, tanks driving about and
shooting at each other, trucks on the roads, cars driving around in the
towns, planes minding their own business etc.
Minus:
Missions - hard wired with some randomness, but no major changes
Missions - Cuba lacks the original A-10's SUBERB mission planning interface
AI - like most games, the pilots are not terribly smart. They are very
good at ground attacks though
Manual - gimme a break, they didn't even GIVE you one? A-10's was bad
enough, but not having one at all!?
It's too bad they didn't port the original A-10 instead of Cuba.
Although the missions in Cuba are a lot more fun, the missions in A-10,
along with the mission planning system, made them more engrossing. I
would love to see Flying Nightmare's missions system combined with A-10
engine.
I will update my manual and get it out to the net for you all.
Maury
Jaggernaut
"James Rootsey" <rroo...@cyberportal.net> wrote:
>Rick
If it doesn't have a manual and only 12 missions I won't be giving it
a look.Does it have a mision editor at least?
Maury Markowitz
In article <01bbd823$8c1a2800$9368e7ce@rickro3>, "James Rootsey"
<rroo...@cyberportal.net> wrote:
> I wish there was a demo of A-10 so that everyone could appreciate what I
> now do. I run the game at 1024x768 with a smokin' frame rate, and I can't
> believe the difference it makes. It's nice to see a plane hundreds of yards
> away that you can still make out the details (and manouvers) without
> viewing it in slide show format.
Yup smooth as silk, and not just in the graphics but in the way the
plane flies. You can't just start yanking about on the joystick, you have
to be SMOOTH, or it's going to bite you. And on my older Mac, I'm getting
full frame rates at 1024x960, and it's not even that fast a machine (a
601/120).
On the Mac there are some textures though, decals on the planes for example.
Maury
este...@aol.com
I totally agree with you Rick. I'll take this level of graphics any day.
It really lets you get immersed. I have a PP200 and most high end sims
still seem jerky. It's not even the jerkiness that kills them. It's the
clutter. This game is beautiful.
Steve
este...@aol.com
In article <3294EF...@dimensionx.com>, A lil' spec o' love
<je...@dimensionx.com> writes:
>Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
>the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
>Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet? NOTHING. only 2 pages in the CD
>insert explain what the cockpit dials are. Ok fine... so I install it,
>boot it up, and notice that there are only 12 non-linked canned
>missions. 12 MISSIONS! No awesome campaign, nothing. So, I gear up, take
>off, and I LOVE it. It flies like a dream, and there is alot of stuff
>happening in the theatre. Tanks shooting, trucks driving, C130's leaving
>contrails.... too bad I have NO IDEA how to fly it.
>
>
The manual is in an extensive help file on the CD. Some people don't like
online manuals. personaly I don't mind them. If I'm not mistaken the
missions reqire you to land, refueld and rearm. This makes them longer
then you would think.
Steve
Art Day
In article <maury-23119...@194.125.100.1> Maury Markowitz,
ma...@softarc.com writes:
>Manual - gimme a break, they didn't even GIVE you one? A-10's was bad
>enough, but not having one at all!?
Hmmmm. Funny. The Mac version of Cuba had a fairly good supplement to
the A-10 manual. I'll pass this on to Parsoft.
--Art
David Bainbridge
> If it doesn't have a manual and only 12 missions I won't be giving it
> a look.Does it have a mision editor at least?
> --
> Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
>
enemies do not always show up at same time/place. Did have JF3 next to
it, not sure which to get. I also liked Hellcat on the Mac. Guess need
to read more.
David
Mark Smith
On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:10:54 -0800, A lil' spec o' love <je...@dimensionx.com>
wrote:
>Ok, I grabbed this one RIGHT away.... read all the reviews for it on the
>mac and it sounded incredible.... real instrumentation, a REAL campaign
>that goes on around you that you can directly effect (aka Tornado on
>Speed), super fluid framerate....
>
>Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
>the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
>Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet? NOTHING. only 2 pages in the CD
>insert explain what the cockpit dials are. Ok fine... so I install it,
>boot it up, and notice that there are only 12 non-linked canned
>missions. 12 MISSIONS! No awesome campaign, nothing. So, I gear up, take
>off, and I LOVE it. It flies like a dream, and there is alot of stuff
>happening in the theatre. Tanks shooting, trucks driving, C130's leaving
>contrails.... too bad I have NO IDEA how to fly it.
>
>I promptly returned it to the store hoping there had been some mishap
>and I happened to get a box with no manual (and the real campaign files
>missing ;) ). Nope. There is simply NOTHING. This sim had potential to
>be the best since EF2K. Too bad.
>
>-Jesse / DNX
Do they at least have a command reference card so I can program my F-22 Pro. I
can live without 100 page manuals on the physics of flight - I just wanna know
what keys to hit to do all the stuff.
oleg
In article <19961122154...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
este...@aol.com says...
>
>In article <3294EF...@dimensionx.com>, A lil' spec o' love
><je...@dimensionx.com> writes:
>
>>Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
>>the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
>>Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet? NOTHING. only 2 pages in the CD
>>insert explain what the cockpit dials are. Ok fine... so I install it,
>>boot it up, and notice that there are only 12 non-linked canned
>>missions. 12 MISSIONS! No awesome campaign, nothing. So, I gear up, take
>>off, and I LOVE it. It flies like a dream, and there is alot of stuff
>>happening in the theatre. Tanks shooting, trucks driving, C130's leaving
>>contrails.... too bad I have NO IDEA how to fly it.
>>
>>
>
>
>online manuals. personaly I don't mind them. If I'm not mistaken the
>missions reqire you to land, refueld and rearm. This makes them longer
>then you would think.
>
>Steve
Guess I won't be buying it unless the price is that of an OEM version.
I am tired of companies skimping on manuals. Heck I remember when
a full-price game had lots of cool pack-ins. Now we're lucky if we
get a 20 page booklet. Screw that. The market price for OEM versions
with no pack-ins/no manual/no box is $10-$20, if the game companies
are going to sell us the OEM versions in a box for retail prices,
I for one will not buy.
---
Oleg
DoD 388
Virago 700 "V'ger"
John L. Hardy IV
Yes, there is a fairly extensive ref. card. But as others have mentioned
that's about it.. very odd combo for something that claims to be so
sophisticated. Reminds me a lot of the orignal A10 Tank Killer in terms of
graphics.. they are crisp if you like untextured polygon approach. (this
would be a nice compliment to IMagics Apache and Hind).. still toying with
it as I picked up CyberGladiators on the same day and it's getting the
lions share of the game play. <g>
--
j4.
jha...@adobe.com / jo...@gte.net
Adobe Systems, Inc.
PageMaker SQA, Seattle, Wa
Mark Smith <ds...@concentric.net> wrote in article
rdc...@aol.com
>The manual is in an extensive help file on the CD. Some people don't like
>online manuals. personaly I don't mind them. If I'm not mistaken the
>missions reqire you to land, refueld and rearm. This makes them longer
>then you would think.
No printed manual, no sale. I agree with Oleg: if a game is packaged
like a re-issue, it should be priced like one.
Dynamix got the message, I understand, and will be including a full
printed manual with Red Baron II. I hope so, since I'd like to buy the
game. The makers of A-10 Cuba should pay better attention.
|--RichC-------------------------Interfacing is Easy--|
|--RD...@aol.com----Compatibility Takes a Lifetime--|
Jaggernaut
rdc...@aol.com wrote:
>No printed manual, no sale. I agree with Oleg: if a game is packaged
>like a re-issue, it should be priced like one.
>Dynamix got the message, I understand, and will be including a full
>printed manual with Red Baron II. I hope so, since I'd like to buy the
>game. The makers of A-10 Cuba should pay better attention.
A-10 Cuba, coming to a bargain bin near you soon. ;-)
Joseph M. Scamardella at White Rook
James Rootsey (rroo...@cyberportal.net) wrote:
-snip-
: I wish there was a demo of A-10 so that everyone could appreciate what I
: now do.
actually, if anyone's interested there's an .avi demo download at
http://www.activision/com
--
joe scamardella/jmsc...@twain.ucs.umass.edu
Tim Foley
In article <575o6b$8ec@news>, ol...@chinchilla.org says...
>>
>>The manual is in an extensive help file on the CD. Some people don't like
>>online manuals. personaly I don't mind them. If I'm not mistaken the
>>missions reqire you to land, refueld and rearm. This makes them longer
>>then you would think.
>>
>>Steve
>
>Guess I won't be buying it unless the price is that of an OEM version.
>I am tired of companies skimping on manuals. Heck I remember when
>a full-price game had lots of cool pack-ins. Now we're lucky if we
>get a 20 page booklet. Screw that. The market price for OEM versions
>with no pack-ins/no manual/no box is $10-$20, if the game companies
>are going to sell us the OEM versions in a box for retail prices,
>I for one will not buy.
Now thats a good point! I can't believe the size of the Box, its as box as
the Mechwarrior boxes...which also came without a good manual (or any manual in
the later ones) and also came from Activision....which also have a bunch of
bugs that people have been waiting to have fixed (though mercs 1.05 is out now)
and also promised too much for what the game delivered. Sounds like Activision
has started a trend here.
I'll have to agree with you, I paid $69.99 Canadian + 15% taxes on top of
that...and I'll I got was a nice box and a CD with a Ref card...it should have
been packaged with a manual or priced as an OEM!
I just hope INTERSTATE 76 does not come out like this...I've been waiting
for that one and if Activision screws up again...
To make things worse...the Rudder Pedals are REVERSED in A10
Cuba...sigh...what happened to play testing???
As for the extensive manual, I just printed it all out, and its not that
extensive, no plane history, attributes, capabilites, etc...just how to play
the game. For $69 I want a hard cover book on the A10! Sheesh, the full
fledged hard cover history of warfare books sell for $10-$20 at the local book
store...(too bad I can't find an A10 book...:()
And to top it off, we have to call in and pay $15 for each network player we
want to add in...thats nuts!
This kinda brings up USNF (US Navy Fighters), I bought that on SIGHT! It
looked AWESOME...then once I got it home...and put it in...I thought...wow what
graphics...but hey...where is the cockpits...huh? Thats it? Arcade flight
sim?!?! Man did that one piss me off! And then to top it off, I of course
had to get the USMF (Marine fighters) as I love Harriers...and its modeled like
a toy...no real viffing, no reaction control jets, nothing...its a pig to fly
and hover...sheeesh.
For those IBMers that have never seen A10-Attack! on the Mac (Parsoft
version, nothing to do with Activision), go have a look! It has an awesome
mission planner, editor, etc, and you can fly up to 3 planes and control them
etc.
Not to forget that on the Mac version...you can have....are you ready for
this....MULTIPLE MONITORS! Its a BLAST! I've played it with 3 monitors and
its amazing! You can move whatever view you want to the other monitors or keep
the help file open on one...what a neat feature...!
But as I've said before, I just hope Parsoft beats Activision over the
head and fixes things up as this has the potential to be one awesome sim...if
you won't but it for the full price, make sure you grab it when it does come
out as OEM, as the flight model etc just has to be played!!!
Tim
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim G. Foley -=- One should not actively seek a confrontation,
ti...@interlog.com but one should not fear one either. -=-
Grand Master O.E. Simon
*> Williams Defender Arcade Classic -- Home Page <*
http://www.interlog.com/~timf/defender_page/defender.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jaggernaut
ti...@interlog.com (Tim Foley) wrote:
> For those IBMers that have never seen A10-Attack! on the Mac (Parsoft
>version, nothing to do with Activision), go have a look! It has an awesome
>mission planner, editor, etc, and you can fly up to 3 planes and control them
>etc.
> Not to forget that on the Mac version...you can have....are you ready for
>this....MULTIPLE MONITORS! Its a BLAST! I've played it with 3 monitors and
>its amazing! You can move whatever view you want to the other monitors or keep
>the help file open on one...what a neat feature...!
Well, they made a *big* mistake not giving us PC users everything the
original has. They could have made some good money out of it if they
did. Instead I think it will not do so well in the PC market. We
expect higher standards than this.
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
wolfo...@aol.com
No printed manual? Really? I haven't gotten a final copy yet but all the
betas I've received came with photocopies of the 54-page Macintosh manual.
They must have decided that PC-specific changes weren't worth the effort.
Major bummer! I'll see what I can find out...
- wolf
Richard Harvey
Just to set the record straight, the Mac version does *NOT* let you jump
into other planes or do mission planning. That was the Mac version of
A-10 Attack!, not A-10 Cuba. When Parsoft released A-10 Cuba on the
Mac, they removed those features (though they promise an upcoming
release will fix this.)
So, for the time being, the PC version has the same feature set as the
Mac.
Rich
#######################################################################
# Richard Harvey # "We are the music makers; #
# rha...@connect.net # We are the dreamers of the dream." #
# # -- Willy Wonka #
#######################################################################
'John' Joao Silva
In article <3294EF...@dimensionx.com>,
A lil' spec o' love <je...@dimensionx.com> wrote:
>Ok, I grabbed this one RIGHT away.... read all the reviews for it on the
>mac and it sounded incredible.... real instrumentation, a REAL campaign
>that goes on around you that you can directly effect (aka Tornado on
>Speed), super fluid framerate....
>
Wow! Too bad.... NO MANUAL means they won't be getting my $$$
and I have been waiting for a good A-10 sim since the announcement
of an A-10 addon for Falcon3.0.
No manual might be okay for simplistic games like Mortal Kombat and such,
but I just don't understand how these companies can spend the time to come
out with a realistic and detailed sim and not bother to include a real paper
manual that explains to us all the sim's systems and which can be looked at
and studied both while playing the sim, but also while away from the computer
to better understand all the functions.
Sorry but those online help systems are not a substitute for a paper manual,
maybe in addition to a paper manual, but not as a substitute.
Still crossing my fingers that Sierra will include a manual with
Red Baron 2 and Nascar 2 or else I will regretfully be forced to not
buy these promising sims.
Maybe in their transition to a SIM making company, Sierra will do away
with their trend of late to not have a paper manual, at least I hope so.
Still haven't gotten over the poor excuse for a manual that was the
online help with Earthsiege 2, and just why they decided to use yellow text
on a white background I'll never know.
Cheers.
--John
--
------------------------------+--------------------------
John (Joao) Silva | jsi...@u.washington.edu
Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva
------------------------------+--------------------------------
Joel Hulsey
> This kinda brings up USNF (US Navy Fighters), I bought that on SIGHT! It
>looked AWESOME...then once I got it home...and put it in...I thought...wow what
>graphics...but hey...where is the cockpits...huh? Thats it? Arcade flight
>sim?!?! Man did that one piss me off! And then to top it off, I of course
>had to get the USMF (Marine fighters) as I love Harriers...and its modeled like
>a toy...no real viffing, no reaction control jets, nothing...its a pig to fly
>and hover...sheeesh.
Yeah, but the USNF manual kicked ass didn't it? Compare it to the
manual that Activision gives you with A10. Oooppss......
Joel Hulsey
rdc...@aol.com
>> Not to forget that on the Mac version...you can have....are you ready
for
>>this....MULTIPLE MONITORS! Its a BLAST! I've played it with 3
monitors and
>>its amazing! You can move whatever view you want to the other monitors
or >keep
>>the help file open on one...what a neat feature...!
> Well, they made a *big* mistake not giving us PC users
> everything the original has. They could have made some
> good money out of it if they did. Instead I think it will
> not do so well in the PC market. We expect higher
> standards than this.
For those who may not realize this, multiple monitor support is built into
the Mac OS. If a program is written so that multiple windows can be open
at once, then those windows (views, help files, whatever) can be
distributed among whatever displays are installed. (Those displays can all
be color, btw; one of them can even be a standard TV if you have an AV
Mac.) There is definitely a performance penalty for this, however.
Multiple monitor support couldn't be in a PC port of any Mac game; PC's
and their OS's don't natively support multiple monitors.
Jaggernaut
jsi...@spam.not.welcome ('John' Joao Silva) wrote:
>Still crossing my fingers that Sierra will include a manual with
>Red Baron 2 and Nascar 2 or else I will regretfully be forced to not
>buy these promising sims.
>Maybe in their transition to a SIM making company, Sierra will do away
>with their trend of late to not have a paper manual, at least I hope so.
>Still haven't gotten over the poor excuse for a manual that was the
>online help with Earthsiege 2, and just why they decided to use yellow text
>on a white background I'll never know.
>Cheers.
Sierra has stated in the past that any complex game/sim *will* have a
hardcover manual. Games of a more arcade nature.(ie Earthsiege) won't.
>--John
>--
>------------------------------+--------------------------
> John (Joao) Silva | jsi...@u.washington.edu
> Seattle, Washington USA. | http://www.cool.com/~jsilva
>------------------------------+--------------------------------
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Douglas Bollinger
In article <578auc$a...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>,
jsi...@spam.not.welcome says...
> Wow! Too bad.... NO MANUAL means they won't be getting my $$$
> and I have been waiting for a good A-10 sim since the announcement
> of an A-10 addon for Falcon3.0.
>
> No manual might be okay for simplistic games like Mortal Kombat and such,
> but I just don't understand how these companies can spend the time to come
> out with a realistic and detailed sim and not bother to include a real paper
> manual that explains to us all the sim's systems and which can be looked at
> and studied both while playing the sim, but also while away from the computer
> to better understand all the functions.
>
> Sorry but those online help systems are not a substitute for a paper manual,
> maybe in addition to a paper manual, but not as a substitute.
<snip>
I'll have to agree with everyone here, no manual = no purchase. A
combat simulator with a real good flight model is something I really
like, which is why I am a big Fighter Duel fan, and I was really
looking forward to the release of this A-10 simulator. After reading
some of the problems in this group, however, I've decided not to
purchase this simulator.
First I read that the game doesn't have a manual at all, which is
totally ridiclous for a in-depth flight simulator. Then I seen that
someone says that you have to pay extra for IPX support? Since the
game has very few missions and no mission editor, I thought trying the
to use Kali with the game would extend it's playing life, but I'm
certainly not going to pay extra for IPX support especially when some
companys, like the makers of Fighter Duel, give IPX support for FREE.
Parasoft better learn that they are not the only game in town, so to
speak, now that they are on the PC platform. They and Activision are
losing business with the above dubious practices.
For now, I'll hold on to my money. Many other great games are coming
out for Christmas.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
'||'''|. '||'''|, Douglas Bollinger
|| || || || Mt. Holly Springs, PA
|| || ||;;;;
|| || || ||
.||...|' .||...|' Doog on Kali
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I only play with my computer on days that end in "Y."
James Rootsey
six...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
<3295830e...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
> >Rick
> Did your copy come with a manual ?
> Does it have only 12 missions ?
> How much was it ?
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
Bill,
1. The manual is "online"in the form of a Windows help file. I can tell you
from working at one of the "major" software companies that this is the wave
of the future. Printed material is so darn expensive that I'm suprised that
games still come with printed manuals at all (especially some of the
beefier flight sim manuals). FYI, the manual is complete for the game
(sim), but not not discuss the usual flight dynamics, plane history, etc.
2. Actually the sim claims 16 but the first four are "training" missions
consisting of "Take Off", "Landing", "Air to Air" and "Air to Ground". So
the answer is basically "yes". Though I will add, they are diverse and I
have yet to completely finish a single one yet (came close though).
3. I paid 47.99 at Electronic Boutique, which I think is too much. I'm
hoping to see it cheaper somewhere else and get EB to give me a price match
return. I guess I shouldn't complain after spending what I have on some of
these new N64 games.
Hope this anwered your questions,
Rick
Harry Chow
In <01bbd9b9$d0cd1920$4f68e7ce@rickro3> "James Rootsey"
<rroo...@cyberportal.net> writes:
>
>
>
>six...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
><3295830e...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>> >Rick
>> Did your copy come with a manual ?
>> Does it have only 12 missions ?
>> How much was it ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>>
>
>Bill,
>1. The manual is "online"in the form of a Windows help file. I can
tell you
>from working at one of the "major" software companies that this is the
wave
>of the future. Printed material is so darn expensive that I'm suprised
that
>games still come with printed manuals at all (especially some of the
>beefier flight sim manuals). FYI, the manual is complete for the game
>(sim), but not not discuss the usual flight dynamics, plane history,
etc.
>
And yet they included a manual with the MAC version of A-10 Cuba. I
think someone made a big error and now its going to cost them a lot of
customers. Is the rudder control also screwed on the MAC version?
rordw...@aol.com
Dynamix got the message, I understand, and will be including a full
printed manual with Red Baron II. I hope so, since I'd like to b<<
Yes, No printed manual is ridiculous when paying so much money...and more
of a pain to look up things, and loses the feeling of the thing, I think
personally.
-Richard
Jaggernaut
ja...@concentric.net (Jaggernaut) wrote:
>Sierra has stated in the past that any complex game/sim *will* have a
>hardcover manual. Games of a more arcade nature.(ie Earthsiege) won't.
Ooops...meant to say hardcopy not hardcover. Now that would be an
expensive manual to produce if it did. <G>
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Braun Tacon
doug...@mindspring.com (Douglas Bollinger) wrote:
>I'll have to agree with everyone here, no manual = no purchase. A
>combat simulator with a real good flight model is something I really
>like, which is why I am a big Fighter Duel fan, and I was really
>looking forward to the release of this A-10 simulator. After reading
>some of the problems in this group, however, I've decided not to
>purchase this simulator.
>
>First I read that the game doesn't have a manual at all, which is
>totally ridiclous for a in-depth flight simulator. Then I seen that
>someone says that you have to pay extra for IPX support? Since the
>game has very few missions and no mission editor, I thought trying the
>to use Kali with the game would extend it's playing life, but I'm
>certainly not going to pay extra for IPX support especially when some
>companys, like the makers of Fighter Duel, give IPX support for FREE.
>
>Parasoft better learn that they are not the only game in town, so to
>speak, now that they are on the PC platform. They and Activision are
>losing business with the above dubious practices.
>
>For now, I'll hold on to my money. Many other great games are coming
>out for Christmas.
Doug...I agree, the lack of manual is lamentable, but then again,
there are numerous FAQ's and hints and tips available for A-10 Cuba
because there was no real manual with the Mac ver. too
ATTN EVERYONE!!! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR NETWORK SUPPORT. WHAT
YOU GET IS A LICENSE FOR ONE COPY AND YOU MAY FREELY SHARE YOUR GAME
WITH OTHERS TO PLAY ON THE NETWORK (not standalone...that is a no-no
we all understand <g>) FOR $15.00 PER LICENSE. ANYONE WHO HAS A
LEGIT COPY MAY PLAY ON THE NETWORK WITH ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS A COPY FOR
FREE.
I would suggest that before you write this one off you check it out.
It really is a neat toy. Imagine Flanker, with better graphics,
without the dreaded "Stutter."
PS Flanker is now the king of network...you only get one network
license per purchase...additional copies are the cost of the game.
And oh yeah...please don't post here how F22 gives you 8 license's.
Look at what you get for gameplay.
Braun Tacon
Vmax
"James Rootsey" <rroo...@cyberportal.net> wrote:
>
>
>six...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
><3295830e...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>> >Rick
>> Did your copy come with a manual ?
>> Does it have only 12 missions ?
>> How much was it ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>>
>
>Bill,
>1. The manual is "online"in the form of a Windows help file. I can tell you
>from working at one of the "major" software companies that this is the wave
>of the future. Printed material is so darn expensive that I'm suprised that
>games still come with printed manuals at all (especially some of the
>beefier flight sim manuals). FYI, the manual is complete for the game
>(sim), but not not discuss the usual flight dynamics, plane history, etc.
>
>2. Actually the sim claims 16 but the first four are "training" missions
>consisting of "Take Off", "Landing", "Air to Air" and "Air to Ground". So
>the answer is basically "yes". Though I will add, they are diverse and I
>have yet to completely finish a single one yet (came close though).
>
>3. I paid 47.99 at Electronic Boutique, which I think is too much. I'm
>hoping to see it cheaper somewhere else and get EB to give me a price match
>return. I guess I shouldn't complain after spending what I have on some of
>these new N64 games.
>
>Hope this anwered your questions,
> Rick
If I can't haul the manual into the bathroom with me and do some
serious reading, I don't want it.
MM
Richard Harvey
I understand everyone's frustration of lack of printed docs with A-10
Cuba, but I can tell you this -- if you're willing to spend an afternoon
to learn the ins and outs of this sim, and how your weapons and nav
systems work, you'll be hard pressed to find a better rounded air-battle
sim out there.
There *are* better products out there if you like texture mapping,
detailed mission planning, etc. However, if you like a clean looking
sim with unbelievable smoothness, fine attention to detail on the
planes, runways, and targets, and extremely high realism on flight model
and weapons, don't shoot your self in the foot by passing on this one.
Douglas Bollinger
In article <3298839a...@news.pacifier.com>, br...@pacifier.com
says...
> ATTN EVERYONE!!! YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR NETWORK SUPPORT. WHAT
> YOU GET IS A LICENSE FOR ONE COPY AND YOU MAY FREELY SHARE YOUR GAME
> WITH OTHERS TO PLAY ON THE NETWORK (not standalone...that is a no-no
> we all understand <g>) FOR $15.00 PER LICENSE. ANYONE WHO HAS A
> LEGIT COPY MAY PLAY ON THE NETWORK WITH ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS A COPY FOR
> FREE.
Unfortunately for Activision, my software money went to buying golf
course expansion disks for Links LS, which, by the way, has a nice
manual. :)
Its a secret to you
On 24 Nov 1996 03:44:44 GMT, "James Rootsey"
<rroo...@cyberportal.net> wrote:
>
>
>six...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
><3295830e...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>> >Rick
>> Did your copy come with a manual ?
>> Does it have only 12 missions ?
>> How much was it ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>>
>
>Bill,
>1. The manual is "online"in the form of a Windows help file. I can tell you
>from working at one of the "major" software companies that this is the wave
>of the future. Printed material is so darn expensive that I'm suprised that
>games still come with printed manuals at all (especially some of the
>beefier flight sim manuals). FYI, the manual is complete for the game
>(sim), but not not discuss the usual flight dynamics, plane history, etc.
Thats to bad I don't like help files for manual. Seems if they want to
save money and npt print a manual they should pass the saving on but
instead I guess it just ups the profit margin.
>
>2. Actually the sim claims 16 but the first four are "training" missions
>consisting of "Take Off", "Landing", "Air to Air" and "Air to Ground". So
>the answer is basically "yes". Though I will add, they are diverse and I
>have yet to completely finish a single one yet (came close though).
hmmmm
What do you mean by diverse ?
>
>3. I paid 47.99 at Electronic Boutique, which I think is too much. I'm
>hoping to see it cheaper somewhere else and get EB to give me a price match
>return. I guess I shouldn't complain after spending what I have on some of
>these new N64 games.
>
>Hope this anwered your questions,
thanks
I'm considering either this, JFIII or the new LongBow add on.
leaning towards one with a manual.
> Rick
rdc...@aol.com
Richard Harvey wrote, in part:
> I understand everyone's frustration of lack of printed docs
>don't shoot your self in the foot by passing on
> this one.
Maybe in the short run. In the long run we hurt ourselves much worse by
mutely accepting this effort by game publishers to sell "value subtracted"
products at full price. Maybe we will win the battle, and maybe we'll
lose... but we'll surely lose if we decline to fight it at all.
There is only one strategy that will work: to not buy games that lack
manuals (or to buy them and return them) AND to tell the publisher,
directly, why. Withholding our cash is the only effective weapon we have.
Sierra/Dynamix, which was the highest-profile proponent of the "no manual
for Win95 games" marketing approach, has stated that future simulations
(specifically Red Baron II) will include adequate printed documentation,
indicating that the message can get through if we repeat it loudly and
often.
I'd like a good A-10 sim as much as the next guy. But I can wait. There
are plenty of attractive games hitting the shelves and competing for my
money. Let 'em compete by giving me what I want.
(This particular episode seems particularly egregious because apparently a
manual *was* published for the Mac version, and the distributor simply
chose not to do so for the Win95 edition. Yet the price is that of a
top-line game, not a re-issue. That's just insulting, IMO.)
Jaggernaut
Richard Harvey <rha...@connect.net> wrote:
>There *are* better products out there if you like texture mapping,
>detailed mission planning, etc. However, if you like a clean looking
>sim with unbelievable smoothness, fine attention to detail on the
>planes, runways, and targets, and extremely high realism on flight model
>and weapons, don't shoot your self in the foot by passing on this one.
We already have one like that. It's called SU-27 Flanker. I would like
an A-10 with detail too but I hear it's not selling for less even
though it's only 12 missions and no manual. Actually, I hear it's
quite expensive up here in Canada. How long are 12 missions going to
keep me busy? My guess is all of 2 weeks at the most.
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Jaggernaut
rdc...@aol.com wrote:
>(This particular episode seems particularly egregious because apparently a
>manual *was* published for the Mac version, and the distributor simply
>chose not to do so for the Win95 edition. Yet the price is that of a
>top-line game, not a re-issue. That's just insulting, IMO.)
I guess they think we PC users are so smart that we don't need a
manual like the Mac heads. They are right of course, but we want a
manual anyway.
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
oleg
In article <3298EA...@connect.net>, rha...@connect.net says...
>
>I understand everyone's frustration of lack of printed docs with A-10
>to learn the ins and outs of this sim, and how your weapons and nav
>systems work, you'll be hard pressed to find a better rounded air-battle
>sim out there.
>
>detailed mission planning, etc. However, if you like a clean looking
>sim with unbelievable smoothness, fine attention to detail on the
>planes, runways, and targets, and extremely high realism on flight model
>and weapons, don't shoot your self in the foot by passing on this one.
>
>
It sounds like A-10 Cuba is a good sim for me, BUT. The absence of the
manual is not acceptable. It is as simple as that. I have bitched and
moaned about inadequate manuals before (Steel Panthers comes to mind)
but bought the games nevertheless because they were good. Unfortunately
it seems like the game companies do not listen to consumer complaints
unless they are backed by action. The skimpy manuals have turned into
on-line files. So, I for one will not buy any more programs that need
a manual but come with disk files instead, quality programming or not.
A-10 may be all I want in a sim, but until it includes a manual, I'll
keep playing Hind, Longbow, Su-27, Apache.
If you feel as frustrated as I am, PLEASE do not buy A-10, and let
Activision know why you passed up on it. Just go to their website and
use the feedback function if you don't want to spend time on a call or
a snail mail letter. Remember, WE are the customers, it is OUR money.
Let the companies know what you want by voting with your dollars.
---
Oleg
DoD 388
Virago 700 "V'ger"
dan...@aol.com
I agree. Our only leverage is our money. The manual doesn't have to be
200 pgs, but minimally it should tell you everything you need to play the
game well. I used to gripe about skimpy manuals, with $20 hint books
coming out at the same time as the first release (the real manual costing
the extra $). Now, we're not even getting skimpy manuals. What follows?
A floppy with screen shots?
Dan
'John' Joao Silva
In article <578imu$7...@herald.concentric.net>,
Jaggernaut <ja...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>Sierra has stated in the past that any complex game/sim *will* have a
>hardcover manual. Games of a more arcade nature.(ie Earthsiege) won't.
>
>Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Glad to hear it and I sure hope the live up to that ;-)
Maury Markowitz
In article <19961123103...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
rdc...@aol.com wrote:
> No printed manual, no sale. I agree with Oleg: if a game is packaged
> like a re-issue, it should be priced like one.
In the Mac market, it is a re-issue in some ways. A large but
essentially useless and incorrect manual shipped with the original A-10
Attack! (herein called Germany vs. Cuba) backed up with text files and
such. The quality was so poor I still consider my own effort, written for
a pre-release demo, to be superior. Cuba then shipped and had a smaller,
but much higher quality, manual. However, like many other games
companies, the docs continue to be an afterthought. Offers to re-write
their documentation for them free-lance have gone nowhere to date, not
even replies to the e-mail. Art, can you work on this one?
Maury
Tim Foley
In article <3298EA...@connect.net>, rha...@connect.net says...
>
>I understand everyone's frustration of lack of printed docs with A-10
>Cuba, but I can tell you this -- if you're willing to spend an afternoon
>to learn the ins and outs of this sim, and how your weapons and nav
>systems work, you'll be hard pressed to find a better rounded air-battle
>sim out there.
>
>There *are* better products out there if you like texture mapping,
>detailed mission planning, etc. However, if you like a clean looking
>sim with unbelievable smoothness, fine attention to detail on the
>planes, runways, and targets, and extremely high realism on flight model
>and weapons, don't shoot your self in the foot by passing on this one.
Now that reminds me, last night while playing around with A10Cuba, I decided
to play around with physics and see how well they did it, wow was I
surprised!!!!
I was accelerating down the taxiway and started to swerve violently to each
side, each time the plane skidded, tires screached, and only the opposite sides
wheel came off the ground, then to top it off, I went too far and FLIPPED THE
AIRCRAFT ON THE TAXI WAY...right upsidedown! it was hilarious, I took some
fair damage, but the engines kept running, you could ACTUALLY WATCH THE NOSE
GEAR TURN with the control stick...lots of detail in this sucker!
Anyone had to land yet with only one main gear? I did...VERY well
modeled...damn, I'm liking this sim more and more ... but alas for a manual :)
Dennis Newberry
Douglas Bollinger <doug...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<MPG.d022b9d7...@news.mindspring.com>...
> In article <578auc$a...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>,
> jsi...@spam.not.welcome says...
>
> I'll have to agree with everyone here, no manual = no purchase. A
The help file that comes with A-10 is not bad. I prefer help files to
manuals so it was not a problem for me.
> certainly not going to pay extra for IPX support especially when some
> companys, like the makers of Fighter Duel, give IPX support for FREE.
I have not had time to try it yet but the Network setup includes WinSock
IPX and WinSock TCP. The box says that it DOES NOT support Internet play -
but we plan to try it anyway.
later,
DLN
Mary and Rob
> In article <57c2qt$j...@news.interlog.com>, ti...@interlog.com (Tim Foley)
wrote:
> > Anyone had to land yet with only one main gear? I did...VERY well
> >modeled...damn, I'm liking this sim more and more ... but alas for a
manual :)
>
Quick post from a mac flier of A-10 Attack! (1 year), and A-10 Cuba! (4
months). It's unbelievable that the rudimentary 54 page Cuba! manual was
not included with your package, this has got to be a mistake. But, FYI,
the CD manual is the same, word for word, as the printed one; the manual
that had a good chapter on the plane itself was included with A-10 Attack!
But take heart, there are several good references on the web, and in some
cases much more informative that the original materials.
I highly recommend the following:
A-10 Attack! Flying Qualities by Art Day
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~tnleeuw/A10/A10FlyingQualities.html
An A-10 Attack! primer by Petteri Sulonen
at http://www.seittipaja.fi/A10FAQ/A10Primer.txt
A-10 Attack! FAQ by Petteri Sulonen
at http://www.seittipaja.fi/A10FAQ/A10FAQ.txt
A-10 FAQ by (this is very informative on the plane itself)
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~tnleeuw/files/A10FAQ.hqx
We in the mac world are waiting for the soon to be released free upgrade,
that will allow the use of the A-10 Attack! mission planner with A-10
Cuba! It really adds another dimension to the sim, and really, it should
be provided to you also. Besides mission planning, a pilot roster is
developed, with careers and promotions and such. The psychology of the
game changes when you have pilots with careers that you are trying to
protect. Activision is apparently the distributor, but Parsoft is the
creator. Paul at Parsoft is quite responsive to inquiries and complaints,
and I urge you write him at te...@parsoft.com.
I believe that Parsoft wants to provide kick-ass sim's, and by entering
the PC market, hopes to generate the capital necessary to improve their
products. It is a small company, but it is my impression that they are
working hard to provide a solid value. There are only 12 missions in Cuba,
but I still enjoy them, and have to work very hard in some of them just to
stay in the air. One mission in particular, I must of flown two dozen
times before I figured out a successful stategy, AND executed it properly.
Ask any mac pilot, this game can be a real challenge, and highly
entertaining. Although not a completed package, I have never felt that I
didn't get my money's worth.
Be forwarned that the default waypoints and loadouts will land you in a
world of hurt, but are good for seeing maximum firework's, unfortunately,
one of them will be your butt. Being a maverick is generally rewarded, and
being an ace with the e/o's doesn't hurt either (sorry, can't help
myself). I'll write a longer post later, elaborating on some of the
subtlties of the game, and on some of the undocumented features. Some of
the undocumented features will take you by surprize when they first occur;
pilot injury in particular, can be a tough one to handle.
Since the Arizona training grounds are not included in A-10 Cuba!, I would
suggest a mission like the first one, "Air Strike". Let those poor saps go
to their doom, and work out your frustrations, and get in a little
practice, by trying various loadouts on your own base. Too patriotic? Then
try straffing some of those vintage 50's sedans puttering around town on
the other side of the fence. What I'm trying to say is, delivering
ordinance is something that you've got to be good at before going into
battle, because this game doesn't cut you any slack. I've made a paper
template that sits by the function keys with loadouts defined, this saves
me from having to "look down" at the full panel. Highly recommended.
In parting (God, I'm long winded) I'd like to give you a little flavor of
the game. What I would like to impart is that there is great stick "feel"
in this game. You seldom peg the stick because you will either "black out"
or "red out". Now image that you are shot all to hell. One of your rudders
is blown off, an aileron is missing, (if you were outside you would have
seen these various parts fly off) an engine fire is accompanied by booming
backfires, the fire extinguisher handle is flashing but when you "pull" it
you realize you've already used all the foam on a previous fire. Now the
HUD is intermittent, and is coming on and off with an arcing sound, jiggle
the switch and you may get it to stay on for awhile. You glance at the
damage report on the tv monitor and you notice that you've got a FUEL
leak, "Oh, God help me", is there a flat piece of land somewhere (not too
likely). For some reason that MIG that was keeping you company peels off
and heads for home, he must think you're as good as dead. If you've got to
eject you will, but man your going to try and land this thing. You have
constant pressure on the stick just to hold it level, the engine is
groaning, and then quits, all you hear is air. The stick has gotten
goosey, as you balance air speed against descent speed, this thing is a
decent glider, but sans a control surface, well, maybe not so good. You
start looking for a downhill slope to ease onto. You look down and notice
that the only gear still working is the nose gear, "man give me break",
you'll just have to belly flop. And when, somehow, you set it down and
careen wildly to a halt, it's just a friggin game, but you will feel like
you've accomplished something that required skill. Well you get the
picture, I enjoy flight-sims, and this one in particular.
Rob Hight
On Your Twelve!
l
--==o0o==--
" "
Art Day
In article <maury-26119...@194.125.100.1> Maury Markowitz,
ma...@softarc.com writes:
>Offers to re-write
>their documentation for them free-lance have gone nowhere to date, not
>even replies to the e-mail. Art, can you work on this one?
>
I'll tellem. Wish they'd frequent these newsgroups more.
--Art
Chris Krueger
Oh yeah, go read one of those 500 page DOS manuals. Or would you like one of
the four NT Server Resource Kit books instead? :)
The A-10 manual sort of stunk anyway... It did have a history of the A-X
programme, but who doesn't know that already?
---
Chris Krueger
(akru...@madison.k12.wi.us)
Art Day
In article <57b5ui$r...@herald.concentric.net> Jaggernaut,
ja...@concentric.net writes:
>I guess they think we PC users are so smart that we don't need a
>manual like the Mac heads. They are right of course, but we want a
>manual anyway.
You Wintel guys sound like they need a crying towel, not a manual.
--Art
Chris Krueger
In article <57c2qt$j...@news.interlog.com>, ti...@interlog.com (Tim Foley) wrote:
> Anyone had to land yet with only one main gear? I did...VERY well
>modeled...damn, I'm liking this sim more and more ... but alas for a manual :)
How about one wing? Something I've had to do more than once after encounters
with those wicked SAM sites... :)
One of my favorite things to do is to get the plane going about 50 kts off the
end of a cliff and see how quickly I can get the plane flying, if at all! :)
BTW, you can use hills as impromptu ski jumps if you're running particularly
heavy, or have had engine trouble.
Have you flown through the tunnel yet? What a riot! Almost as much fun as
finding that underground cavern/waterfall in the original A-10 Attack! I hope
Activision offers the original missions sometime; it was pretty fun landing on
that carrier! :)
---
Chris Krueger
(akru...@madison.k12.wi.us)
Chris Krueger
In article <57bqme$f...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, jsi...@spam.not.welcome ('John' Joao Silva) wrote:
>>Sierra has stated in the past that any complex game/sim *will* have a
>>hardcover manual. Games of a more arcade nature.(ie Earthsiege) won't.
>>
>>--
>>Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
>
>Glad to hear it and I sure hope the live up to that ;-)
I'm sure they will... They'll just release more arcade games like A-10 Silent
Thunder! :)
---
Chris Krueger
(akru...@madison.k12.wi.us)
six...@worldnet.att.net
Thats what we need the manual for.
>
>--Art
six...@worldnet.att.net
NO, the floppy would cut into the profit margin.
>
>Dan
Jaggernaut
akru...@madison.k12.wi.us (Chris Krueger) wrote:
>I'm sure they will... They'll just release more arcade games like A-10 Silent
>Thunder! :)
Can you say "Red Baron II"?
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
Maury Markowitz
> I'll tellem. Wish they'd frequent these newsgroups more.
Me too, I can do that for them too if they want.
Maury
Jaggernaut
Art Day <pd...@kaiwan.com> wrote:
>The Mac world is waiting for an updater (imminent, now) to Cuba which
>will allow all of the features found in the original (Germany) scenario.
> Dunno how they will handle this for the PC--whether the next release
>will be A-10 Attack! or a "mission planner" for Cuba. I asked Paul at
>Parsoft to drop by these newsgroups. You should see him here soon,
>hopefully.
>--Art
If he can promise us the same enhancement to the PC version then I
will buy A-10 Cuba. If not, then I will wait for it to hit the bargain
bin and get it for close to half the current cost.
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
par...@aol.com
A lil' spec o' love <je...@dimensionx.com> wrote:
>Opened the box, and to my suprise, there was NO MANUAL! On the cover of
>the box it says "The most ultra-realistic flight simulation EVER".
>Hmmmm... maybe just a 4 page pamphlet?
I reviewed ALL the online documentation and it's all there. EVERYTHING a
person needs to fly is right there. The entire manual can be printed if
you so desire. True enough, I was testing beta versions so I have yet to
see a release copy, something may have changed. If this is not the case,
all the documentation one could ever need is right there. What is not
clear?
TANKS!
Paul
:)
TANKS!
Paul
:)
par...@aol.com
ma...@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote:
>On the Mac there are some textures though, decals on the planes for
>example.
There are no textures in the A-10 series, those details are placed as
colored polygons.
TANKS!
Paul
:)
Joe Enzminger
Paul,
Is there going to be a patch that fixes the rudder reversal bug?
Quiz
--------------------
Joe Enzminger
ICI Resident Aerospace Engineer
ICI SkunkWorks
Art Day
In article <mjenn-25119...@dalport194.nkn.net> Mary and Rob,
mj...@nkn.net writes:
>But take heart, there are several good references on the web, and in some
>cases much more informative that the original materials.
Good post, M&R. There is also a good A-10 review (with pictures) by
UTurn on the Shadow Riders page and pointers to the A-10 FAQ and other
related info which our PC brethren might find useful.
www.aimnet.com/~nicoli/preflight/a-10.html
It's a shame the first PC product was Cuba, because it was originally
meant to be an additional VBE scenario supplement to A-10 Attack! Hence,
a lot of the goodies you would expect on a full-up flight sim were not
provided in an effort to get the game out. Features such as
waypoint/mission planning, mission scoring/pilot promotion, switching to
any of the various A-10 cockpits during the mission, etc. are not a part
of Cuba, more's the pity. However, networking is currently available in
Cuba but isn't (and not intended for) A-10 Attack! Go figure. Can't say
why there's no paper manual, but the manual with the Mac Cuba version
wasn't really a "detailed" treatment, either. I wouldn't let that
detract me from buying the game--if you do, you're missing out on a great
flight-sim.
Jaggernaut
par...@aol.com wrote:
>I reviewed ALL the online documentation and it's all there. EVERYTHING a
>person needs to fly is right there. The entire manual can be printed if
>you so desire. True enough, I was testing beta versions so I have yet to
>see a release copy, something may have changed. If this is not the case,
>all the documentation one could ever need is right there. What is not
>clear?
>TANKS!
>Paul
What is not clear is why they would put a hardcopy manual in the Mac
version but your response to us PC users is to print the online
version. Also, if you beta tested this and the reverse rudder is a
known bug then why was it released before it was fixed?
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
R.J Freve
How about some PC based reviews for this game. I'm curious, thinking about
buying it.
Jeff Roy
I am a Mac A10-Attack 1.3 flyer and just read 50 someodd postings here.
First off the parsoft Sim is outstanding, nothing else on a PC or a Mac can
come close. But get ready for some serious frustration if you expect
Parsoft to support this fine piece of code like a mature company. A10 Cuba
was not available on the Mac for over a year after it was announced in
catologues, it is much less capable than promissed. The Mac versions came
with manuals but they are useless. A year ago it was implied that by now
we would be flying other planes (F16's most likely) and would be in a fully
integrated networked environment, NOT EVEN CLOSE!... the list goes on.
The catch is the game is so damn good it is hard to ignore. If you want to
really get the feel for flying it is great, details galore. And the A10 is
a fun plane. It is like a tank with wings!. Also since most of your dirty
work is done below 200' it makes flying extra challenging.
Hopefully now that the complany has tapped into the much larger PC market,
they will grow up and deliver what they promised.
Jeff
Stephen Berlinsky
Jeff Roy wrote:
>
> I am a Mac A10-Attack 1.3 flyer and just read 50 someodd postings here.
> First off the parsoft Sim is outstanding, nothing else on a PC or a Mac can
> come close.
SNIPPED
>
> Jeff
You've not flown Su-27 I'd guess. PC A-10 Cuba! is a sort of Su-27 Lite
in many respects.
Ape
rdc...@aol.com
> I reviewed ALL the online documentation and it's all
> there. EVERYTHING a person needs to fly is right there.
> The entire manual can be printed if you so desire. True
> enough, I was testing beta versions so I have yet to see a
> release copy, something may have changed. If this is not
> the case, all the documentation one could ever need is
> right there. What is not clear?
I want to read the manual when I am not at my computer. Is that clear?
I will not buy a full-price game that lacks adequate printed
documentation. Is *that* clear?
If you people plan to subtract value from your products, subtract
something from the price as well.
|--RichC-------------------------Interfacing is Easy--|
|--RD...@aol.com----Compatibility Takes a Lifetime--|
Braun Tacon
"R.J Freve" <rfr...@gwi.net> wrote:
>How about some PC based reviews for this game. I'm curious, thinking about
>buying it.
>
R.J: Ok, here goes:
The bad part. NO PAPER MANUAL. The manual is online complete in all
of its glory. There is a help file that installs, but that is not the
manual, the manual is another help file in the install directory
called "Game". This is a complete and comprehensive manual, as good
as comes with most sims now-a-days.
More bad...The rudder input is reversed. THIS IS REALLY A DUMB BUG!
SU-27 did not have it's ECM light working when it was released, but at
least it still worked. How this one got past QA is beyond me, but
look at the last few sims: SU-27, EF-2000, B2B, etc. Beta testing
seems to be a requirement for sim drivers everywhere.
With that said, there is only good from that point. Graphic engine is
the best I have ever seen. Graphics are vector, but feature multiple
colors, and shapes that are very convincing. Frame rate is
outstanding with folks who have slow pentiums reporting excellent play
at 1024x768!
The flight model is very, very good. Takeoffs, landings and flight
are all accurately modeled and requires a very light touch on the
stick. The plane yanks and banks with ease, and before anyone who
reads this message flames me for the manuvers the A-10 seems to be
capable of doing being unrealistic, trust me...I was an AF Air Traffic
Controller who worked the A-10 frequently. THIS MACHINE CAN TURN ON A
DIME, FLY AT ALMOST 90 DEGREE BANK, SWOOP OUT OF THE SKY AND STAND ON
ITS TAIL! The Warthog is nothing more than a big gun mounted on a
small, highly armoured frame with EXTREMELY large engines.
Sound is the best of any sim out there, bar none. The sound directory
containes 46 separate sound clips which include Ack-Ack, wind,
explosions, excellent cannon, etc. Trust me, the immersion is
complete.
There are only 12 missions, but they have multiple objectives, so you
can stretch it out. On the other hand, if you are like a lot of us
who really don't have time to devote to ongoing campaigns, who just
want to get in a jet, go fast, and kick some butt before someone kicks
yours, you'll have plenty to do.
I think if you overlook the lack of manual, and don't plan on using
rudders until the patch is released, you'll write me back and thank me
for recommending this game to you.
MHO
Braun Tacon
Tim Foley
In article <57fash$q...@hacgate2.hac.com>, pd...@kaiwan.com says...
>
>will be A-10 Attack! or a "mission planner" for Cuba. I asked Paul at
>Parsoft to drop by these newsgroups. You should see him here soon,
>hopefully.
>
>--Art
I've actually already received email from Paul, and I think he prefers that
we (PC Users) deal with Activision. I actually have a few graphic errors to
report that I though Eric might be interested in knowing about (he seems like a
stickler for details).
1) The nose gear on a real Hog is off to the side, Eric current has it in the
center (I imagine this is due to the graphic engine and symetry or something
along that line more than an over sight by the designer).
2) On the PC version, the rest of the cockpit canopy is not drawn, it looks
like we are flying a jeep :) This occurs only in the external views.
3) The real Hog apparently has no autopilot. Was it added to the sim just for
watching the fun of the computer playing?
4) When firing the GAU-8/A, it is reported that long bursts would greatly slow
the plane, be kinda neat if this was modeled.
5) The amount of smoke/gas from a GAU-8/A firing is amazing...that would be a
neat effect to see in the sim (but likely too hard to draw with the current
engine).
All in all an amazing modeled sim eh, had half my starboard wing shot off the
other night, and when applying air brakes, there was a huge yaw to port...due
to of course the design of the air brakes on a Hog...its actually modeled
properly in the sim...very well done!
Is there any missions in the original that included in air-refueling? Just
curious...be fun once or twice... ;)
Keep those Pointy-Nosed Pilots outa my face....
PS. Everyone must have heard the best Hog joke every created, playing on
the fact about how slow it is....if not, here it is just for added humor:
"The A10 is the only plane around thats vulnerable to rear hemisphere
birdstrikes"
Some Pointy-Nose Eagle driver musta thought this one up :)
daniel rettenbacher
> Is there any missions in the original that included in air-refueling? Just
>curious...be fun once or twice... ;)
tanker goes just over stalling speed...nice sight ;o)
you have to see it to believe it!
so long,
daniel
Maury Markowitz
> There are no textures in the A-10 series, those details are placed as
> colored polygons.
Wow. Out of curiosity, how many polys/sec does A-10 Cuba push on, say,
a 7200/90 with cache?
Maury
rdc...@aol.com
> Can't say why there's no paper manual, but the manual with
> the Mac Cuba version wasn't really a "detailed" treatment,
> game--if you do, you're missing out on a great flight-sim.
We can play Longbow or Hind or SU-27 or EF2k now, or any of the half-dozen
top-line sims slated for imminent release, or any of the many truly great
PC flight sims of the past It remains to be seen whether A-10 Cuba
really a "great" flight sim when stacked against the PC competition. And
based on the early feedback from Parsoft, which seems not to understand
much about the needs and desires of the customer base they're trying to
cultivate, we may never find out -- because the product is likely to fail
utterly in the marketplace.
Perhaps Activision will step in and take a firm hand here, as well they
should.
james wall
On 25 Nov 1996 05:02:59 GMT, ol...@chinchilla.org (oleg) wrote:
>It sounds like A-10 Cuba is a good sim for me, BUT. The absence of the
>manual is not acceptable.
OK .. this may draw flames, and I would prefer it if this didn't turn
into one of those HUGE 'piracy is wrong/right' type threads, but...
Apart from what I would consider a wobbly moral duty [for this game],
what incentive is there not pirate A-10 Cuba?
Companies like Sierra and Activision don't seem to realise is that an
online help file makes a pirate copy SOOOO much easier to use. And if
there's nothing but a CD copy to be gained by buying it, I don't see
myself taking the time to pick it up, until it reaches the bargain
bins.
Activision have decided to shaft the consumer. A-10 Cuba has already
paid off its development costs with the Mac version. The game design,
missions, flight models, etc, etc, had all been done before, and
simply needed to be ported across. They decided to save a few bucks
and not include a printed manual. NONE of these savings have been
passed along to the end customer. Why?
It's a fairly shitty deal now I think of it.
There are companies like SPGS/Philips, who have treated their
customers extremely well. I have bought and will continue to buy
their games. I've even gone so far as to delete FDSE from warez
sites, and sent them off the cracked version to show them that single
file/session protection was a piece of piss to get around. SSI have
allowed a dedicated Flanker pilot to release a random mission
generator, which might conceivably eat into sales of Su27 2.0. Andy
Hollis's crew at Janes Sims qualify as well, though as the pirate
version of Longbow is something like 47 disks, I doubt I'll bother
getting it just to send them the crack.
Then there's shit like the way A-10 Cuba 95 has been released, which
makes me loathe the bean counters at Activision. Am I going to help
them out in any way? Nope. They should count themselves lucky I
don't set up an offerbot with A-10 on it to fuck 'em back.
Why should Activision be able to grab extra cash for this? Su-27,
ATF, Janes Longbow, and more of its contemporary sims have come with
large, well-ish made manuals. IMHO, anyone putting flightsims out
today should take a look at the wrinkly lucasfilm flight-sim, Battle
of Britain.
It came with a mission planner, career mode, loads of planes to fly,
lots of terrain, and one of the best manuals I've ever seen - ring
bound too, IIRC. And this was YEARS ago, with a smaller customer
base, and slower machines to write/play it on. There's a reason
people don't write many games like that anymore, and it's called
greed. It's much more profitable to sell real manuals as "strategy
guides", and "extra" features as add-ons.
Screw that. I won't stand for it. I'm going to put my cash towards
the few developers still around who're interested in giving me good
value for my money. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, though it's definitely
not going Activisions way...
a lpha66@h unterlink.n et.a u
bury your head in the sand
bury your face in your hands
.N ewcastle, A ustralia.
Richard Harvey
rdc...@aol.com wrote:
> We can play Longbow or Hind or SU-27 or EF2k now, or any of the half-dozen
> top-line sims slated for imminent release, or any of the many truly great
> PC flight sims of the past It remains to be seen whether A-10 Cuba
> really a "great" flight sim when stacked against the PC competition.
Two quick points: many of us don't have the resources to play and enjoy
a Longbow or EF2k, unless of course everyone else out there has P200
machines with accelerated graphics cards just to be able to turn on 90%
of the detail (I actually have seen reviews where P200's fall to their
knees with full detail on.) A-10 Cuba rocks on my P100, even at
1024x768 on most missions.
Second, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a truly great flight
sim. I got two of my buddy's together for some network play, and these
guys are serious simmers (not that I don't consider myself one.) They
tried many moves that immediately show off major flaws in most flight
sims, such as stall maneuvers, collisions and ground interaction, etc.
Both commented that they've never seen the detail in a sim as there is
in A-10 (in one place, I came up behind one of them while he was landing
at an airbase on a plateau -- I sent two Aim-9's his way, and hit him on
the back tail just as he touched the runway. The blast caused the back
of his plane to slam hard left, lifted the rear wheels off the pavement,
slid the plane down the runway sideways, then it came to a stop just on
the edge of the plateau long enough to sway, then slowly fall off the
side and slide down the hill.) Simply incredible.
I'll give kudo's to Su-27 Flanker, in that watching the battle is half
the fun, even if you're shot down in the first 5 minutes.
Rich
#######################################################################
# Richard Harvey # "We are the music makers; #
# rha...@connect.net # We are the dreamers of the dream." #
# # -- Willy Wonka #
#######################################################################
Chris Krueger
In article <57gbhv$l...@news.interlog.com>, ti...@interlog.com (Tim Foley) wrote:
>4) When firing the GAU-8/A, it is reported that long bursts would greatly slow
>the plane, be kinda neat if this was modeled.
It is modelled, actually. Put the autopilot on, wait for the speed to
stabilize, and fire a long burst in HIGH. The autopilot will increase the
throttle setting to compensate for the recoil of the cannon.
> All in all an amazing modeled sim eh, had half my starboard wing shot off the
>
>other night, and when applying air brakes, there was a huge yaw to port...due
>to of course the design of the air brakes on a Hog...its actually modeled
>properly in the sim...very well done!
Try bumping a wing on the ground... The cartwheels will make you sick! :)
> Is there any missions in the original that included in air-refueling? Just
>curious...be fun once or twice... ;)
Nope, no refueling... I've never carried more than 4000lbs of fuel anyway,
though; the A-10's engines are much more efficient than those in fast jets
like the F-16.
---
Chris Krueger
(akru...@madison.k12.wi.us)
Daniel Drumm
Richard Harvey (rha...@connect.net) wrote:
: Second, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a truly great flight
: sim. I got two of my buddy's together for some network play, and these
: guys are serious simmers (not that I don't consider myself one.) They
: tried many moves that immediately show off major flaws in most flight
: sims, such as stall maneuvers, collisions and ground interaction, etc.
: Both commented that they've never seen the detail in a sim as there is
: in A-10 (in one place, I came up behind one of them while he was landing
: at an airbase on a plateau -- I sent two Aim-9's his way, and hit him on
: the back tail just as he touched the runway. The blast caused the back
I can pull an accelerated stall and get the stall horn properly. I can't
fly higher than the operational ceiling of the A10. I've put into a stall,
but I can't make it flat spin.
I'd say the model is really nice, try revving the engine and then clipping
the wing against the side of a hangar. The plane lifts up, the wing rips
off and the plane spins and skids with sparks flying. Slamming into a
canyon wall is a great effect (ka-pow!) and I really like the way
everything works, esp the aeilrons when turning.
I can't agree with pirate-man who thinks Activision oughta get screwed by
his warez-bot cause of no manual. At $45, it's overpriced for no manual, a
"fair" help file only, no mission planner and no wingmen. It's a helluva
engine though, really fine GFX on my P90.
I don't know why parasoft screwed the PC users out a map and a mission
editor, but if it had them plus intelligent wingman, it would unseat Su27
as the polygon flight sim of choice easily.
--
--
Daniel G. Drumm
dr...@tezcat.com - PGP Key via WWW
http://www.tezcat.com/~drmm
wolfo...@aol.com
My connection to the newgroups was cut off (damn this AOL!) while
composing a response to the Parasoft guy who weaseled his way around the
innefectual joystick support in this otherwise interesting game so I don't
remember his name or have any of the original post, but the gist of my
reply was:
That his attitude was typical of angry and resentful Macintosh
designers/programmers who refuse to admit that their dream machines are
all but dead in the gaming marketplace and can't believe that they're
being forced to lower themselves to supporting the hated PC standard.
His lame explanation contained no hint of an intention to fix the problem
- only that it was a problem related to analog joysticks that the
digital-stick Mac doesn't concern itself with. The prevailing attitide
was that "if you'd bought a Mac in the first place you wouldn't be having
this problem".
That they've seen fit not to include a printed manual was bad enough, but
the acknowledgement of a major problem like joystick control, and it's
dismissal as being too difficult to fix, is downright damning.
Oops - gotta go - there's another one of those condescending Mac
infomercials on TV and I must self-flagellate to it...
- wolf
daniel rettenbacher
OK, I like to complain about things too that I don't like about a game
but guys get over it!!! What's the big deal about not having a manual;
well, I sure would like a manual if I spend $50 on a game but it sure
as hell will not stop me from buying one...wake up!!!!!!
Just read all the postings and you see what kind of game it is, I
havent seen anything like it since SU-27. Don't tell me games like
EF2000, ATF, Longbow (Janes), etc. are good games..they are nice to
play around for a few hours but if you want a flight sim look at SU27
or now A-10 C. And please stop posting things about the manual, I've
seen, I know it now and I'm sure Activision gets the message!
BTW, thaks to the ones who made my buy this game, it's great!
so long,
daniel
"Been there, done it, got the T-shirt!"
Maury Markowitz
> 3) The real Hog apparently has no autopilot. Was it added to the sim
just for
> watching the fun of the computer playing?
The model you are flying has the night attack upgrades installed, which
include an autopilot.
> 4) When firing the GAU-8/A, it is reported that long bursts would
greatly slow
> the plane, be kinda neat if this was modeled.
It is, get slow, point up 10 degrees or so, put the gun on high rate and
hose away. Watch the airspeed. Or belly land the plane and pull the
trigger, you'll go backwards.
> 5) The amount of smoke/gas from a GAU-8/A firing is amazing...that would be a
> neat effect to see in the sim (but likely too hard to draw with the current
> engine).
This would be interesting.
> Is there any missions in the original that included in air-refueling? Just
> curious...be fun once or twice... ;)
Sorry, not in that version either.
Maury
wolfo...@aol.com
Hello. I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify my position and
certain
statements I have made in this group pertaining to Activision's PC release
of Parasoft's A-10 Cuba!. I was gorged on pre-Thanksgiving pizza and
Devil's
Food Pistachio Cake and consequently cranky and tired. I've now had a few
hours sleep and time to consider my extreme observations.
I want to make it perfectly clear that I am under no pressure from any
person
or organization to do this (check the posting times if you don't believe
me).- I feel it is my obligation as an objective and trusted (if I may be
so bold) journalist to temper my sometimes emotional outbursts with the
mellowing of time - a difficult thing in the immediacy of the online
community.
At any rate, my criticisms were not for Parasoft or Activision in general,
but, rather, certain individuals whose comments happened to hit my Hot
Buttons - reactions that the insufferable arrogance of many Mac Heads has
always triggered in me.
I've spent a few more hours with A-10 since last night and I've noticed
that
the joystick problem was intermittant at worst - I could sometimes fly for
20 minutes or so without having to correct at all. Far more irritating
was
the rudder pedal reversal, which I hadn't noticed during my previous
session
with the game (too busy trying to figure out which key did what without
looking away from the cockpit).
I've been around long enough to know how insanely difficult it is to get a
product like this to run at all, let alone get it finished and out the
door,
and I certainly respect Parasoft for the effort that led to an obviously
entertaining Mac simulation. I also have enormous respect for Activision,
who have been keeping me entertained since my Atari 800 days.
Paul's explanations of the problems pointed out in the PC version, while
wholly unhelpul and unsatisfying, now seem more like cheerful ignorance
than
the kind of conceit I usually associate with Mac people. Hell, the first
version of TFX shipped with reversed rudders and people were pretty polite
about getting THAT puppy patched (not to mention EF2000's midlife crises).
What's raising the ruckus here is that A-10's rudder and joystick problems
were acknowledged to exist in the beta process and were not fixed prior to
the product's release. Add to that Paul's non-mention of any intention to
fix the joystick problem (he did say that the rudders were going to be
fixed)
and you've got all the makin's of a Critical Cocktail. Activision's
Quality
Control department is at least as much to blame for this SNAFU as
Parasoft's
Macintosh mindset.
A-10 Cuba! has the potential to be an enjoyable simulation once (and if)
the
problems are patched (and a manual is supplied, of course). Perhaps, as
indicated by Art Day), Paul was not the right person to be addressing this
situation here. Fine, I'll buy that. Who here hasn't jumped
enthusiastically into a topic without knowing the true depth of the
waters?
Since Acitivision is handling the PC tech support, they need to get a rep
in here to let people know their intentions. I can't imagine that they'd
ignore this situation and simply let the game die without explanation.
Our dissatisfaction has been documented - let's give them the opportunity
to respond before jumping to any more conclusions.
And so, as the sound of my furious backpedaling recedes into the wintery
night, I leave you with a temporary solution. If you've got a set of
ThrustMaster T1 or T2 pedals, use those instead of your CH Pros or RCS.
Since they work in reverse in most flight sims, they'll actually work
properly in this one.
I'm Paul Harvey ... Good Day.
Scott "Not Really Paul Harvey" Wolf
Jaggernaut
dan...@nucleus.com (daniel rettenbacher) wrote:
>OK, I like to complain about things too that I don't like about a game
>but guys get over it!!! What's the big deal about not having a manual;
>well, I sure would like a manual if I spend $50 on a game but it sure
>as hell will not stop me from buying one...wake up!!!!!!
>Just read all the postings and you see what kind of game it is, I
>havent seen anything like it since SU-27. Don't tell me games like
>EF2000, ATF, Longbow (Janes), etc. are good games..they are nice to
>play around for a few hours but if you want a flight sim look at SU27
>or now A-10 C. And please stop posting things about the manual, I've
>seen, I know it now and I'm sure Activision gets the message!
I bought SU-27 OEM and it didn't come with a manual either, just the
online version. But, and this is a *big* but, it only cost me $25.00
Canadian ( about $18.00 U.S.). A10-Cuba which doesn't even have a
mission editor like SU-27 will cost me around $65.00 Canadian. I'll
just wait a few months and get it for around $25.00 at my local OEM
store. Then I will be happy with my purchase. I'm more concerned about
the fact it only has 12 missions and no editor than I am about no
manual.
--
Jagg <Sanity Assassin>
pap...@ix.netcom.com
Cut it out or your going to force me to try it if only to support non
textured sims....<VBG>
PAPA DOC
Damage, Inc.
Infamous Flanker Pilot...<G>
>Anyways, I hope that some of you at least give A10 Cuba a look.
>Rick
Chris Krueger
In article <57j9og$s...@tepe.tezcat.com>, dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) wrote:
>I can pull an accelerated stall and get the stall horn properly. I can't
>fly higher than the operational ceiling of the A10. I've put into a stall,
>but I can't make it flat spin.
It's easier to lose control of your plane if you turn off the SAS ("s" key).
It's still tough to get the Hog to go around more than once, though.
---
Chris Krueger
(akru...@madison.k12.wi.us)
Marc Baime
In article <329d4...@news.nucleus.com>, From dan...@nucleus.com
(daniel rettenbacher), the following was written:
> OK, I like to complain about things too that I don't like about a game
> but guys get over it!!! What's the big deal about not having a manual;
> well, I sure would like a manual if I spend $50 on a game but it sure
> as hell will not stop me from buying one...wake up!!!!!!
I guess I agree with this. I found all the whining on this newsgroup
about the lack of a manual to be pretty amusing. Then again, maybe it's
just a way of saying this sim is just not complicated enough for them.
Some folks lives and sacred honor seem to revolve around the mastery of
complex flight sims. And some people just sit around here at the end of
the 90's surveying the wreckage and wondering how it is that it all
turned out this way (whatever that means).
Happy Thanksgiving ;-)
Regards...Marc Baime
--
Marc Baime mba...@gte.net
11/29/96 21:16
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Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com
Braun Tacon
mba...@gte.net (Marc Baime) wrote:
<snip>
>
>I guess I agree with this. I found all the whining on this newsgroup
>about the lack of a manual to be pretty amusing. Then again, maybe it's
>just a way of saying this sim is just not complicated enough for them.
>Some folks lives and sacred honor seem to revolve around the mastery of
>complex flight sims. And some people just sit around here at the end of
>the 90's surveying the wreckage and wondering how it is that it all
>turned out this way (whatever that means).
>Marc Baime mba...@gte.net
Marc: I second your statement, with one exception. A-10 IS a complex
sim. Sure you can't build "El Mission du' Grail", but like you, I
just don't have time to give hours to one battle. I just want to fly
and be shot down! (whoops...something wrong here...reality can be a
bitch sometimes <g>)
Braun
Richard Harvey
I agree -- $39 would have been more appropriate, but I'm a satisfied
customer anyway. BTW, the Mac version of A-10 Cuba doesn't have a
mission editor either -- the original A-10 Attack! from Parsoft have a
very basic mission planner, in that you could program waypoints for
allied planes. However, there was no save feature (after spending an
hour getting all the waypoints in, you had one shot to play it!), and
they did not move this feature into A-10 Cuba on the Mac or PC.
They have promised a patch to A-10 Attack on the Mac to allow it to play
the Cuba missions, so that you'll get the editing capabilities, but I
think everyone would rather see them rewrite the editor into something a
little more serious.
pap...@ix.netcom.com
29.95 is the last price I saw....34.95 with a useful strategy book by
Tom Bashum...
PAPA DOC
Damage, Inc.
Infamous Flanker Pilot...<G>
>Anyone know what this game is selling for these days??
>
> J.R.
Gypsy
Gypsy
I am not sure why there are so many negative oppinions regarding
EF2000. The graphics are far better than anything SU-27 has to offer.
The missions are randomly generated and the AI is quite good. The
cockpit is highly detailed and reflects this fighters glass cockpit
technology. Perhaps the flight dynamics are not as true to life as
SU-27, but find it hard to believe that all of the flamers have been
behind the stick of one of these modern fighters. I have flown both of
these games and I didn't like SU-27 after using the virtual cockpit of
the EF2000. While this is only my opinion, I just don't understand why
veterans of the Sukhoi so strongly shoot down EF2000.
J.R.
Rolando Dela Cruz
Bought mine in Walden Software for $35, v1.1 with the player's guide included.
Josh Whitt
In article <32A3D7...@earthlink.net>
Gypsy <macla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
No flames below...
> I am not sure why there are so many negative oppinions regarding
> EF2000. The graphics are far better than anything SU-27 has to offer.
I could agree with that, if EF2000 ran with texture maps in friggin' VGA on my system.
Su-27 has the best graphics for functionality, but EF2K, cities aside, is what the
locals might call "right purty"
> The missions are randomly generated
A smart guy by the name of Mark Hermonat has been writing a random
mission generator for Flanker (DL site escapes me). It can make some
real 'spaghetti' missions, too, it's not just a plane here, a plane there, etc.
It's up to version 1.2.
> and the AI is quite good.
Don't pay attention to your wingman much, do ya :)
> The cockpit is highly detailed and reflects this fighters glass cockpit
> technology.
Yeah, it's got a lot of nifty-neato gadgets, just like the real one might have.
The magic radar, though, has got to go... I wouldn't think they'd have so
'graphic' a system in a real plane, since that's just more complexity that
can break down.
> I have flown both of these games and I didn't like SU-27 after using the
> virtual cockpit of the EF2000.
I strongly disagree with your opinion here.. EF2K's virtual cockpit is it's
worst point. all the bouncing may be nifty-neato and realistic as far as motion
goes, but it kills frame rate and the lack of decent attitude indications makes it
hard, for me at least, to even turn without augering. I find it hard to believe that
a two-engine plane high T/W plane like the EF would drop so much in a turn,
as well.
> While this is only my opinion, I just don't understand why
> veterans of the Sukhoi so strongly shoot down EF2000.
I can see both sides, I think.. I like the 'hardcore' elements
of Su-27- it's a bitch to fly, let alone actually dogfight a plane or
hit something with a bomb, but the game elements of EF2000
are entertaining for me. As far as flight model goes, to me,
there's just something about the EF that doesn't feel right.
The fly-by-wire in EF2000 is over-modelled, maybe. There are
some things that a real FBW system couldn't fix, like spins and
the lack of your right wing :). Also, missiles should miss sometimes,
esp. at BVR range. The all-encompassing AMRAAM of EF is great
when you're on a strike mission (away, annoying CAP) but it's not realistic
at all. on the other hand, EF2000 beats the crap out of flanker
for atmosphere, but Flanker isn't lacking in that dept. -
just try a night mission. It's DARK! no magic night vision.
The worst part of flanker is its lack of random/campaign
missions, but Mr. Hermonat above and others will be working
on that. And Flanker h2h is a blast, even though I'm no good
at it and my net connects always suck (my fault for not spending
money on a good modem).
Bottom line (sorry to ramble) is that Su-27 might not be beautiful,
but it works as advertised, which EF doesn't.
Josh "spud" Whitt
http://www.zoomnet.net/~phdesign/
David Staines
Marc Baime wrote:
> I guess I agree with this. I found all the whining on this newsgroup
> about the lack of a manual to be pretty amusing. Then again, maybe it's
> just a way of saying this sim is just not complicated enough for them.
> Some folks lives and sacred honor seem to revolve around the mastery of
> complex flight sims. And some people just sit around here at the end of
> the 90's surveying the wreckage and wondering how it is that it all
> turned out this way (whatever that means).
I too found the whining pretty amusing and I bought the game anyways.
What I find even more amusing is this: I bought 4 games in the last
week. All of them Win95 games and all somewhat complex. I also bought
a Thrustmaster F-22 Pro. The manual that came with the stick, had more
pages that all the manuals from the other games combined. That is to
say that only one game had anything relating to a manual.... most just
had key-maps for the keyboard.
Those that refuse to buy a game that doesn't have a manual are going to
be coming upon hard times in the near future.
-David Staines
Gypsy
Have there been enhancements added to this game (I.E. Patches,
editors, etc...). I have seen a few different things around the web but
did not know what they were. I have played the Demo version of SU-27
but didn't know if the graphics are better in the real game or have been
enhanced in any other way. I realize that SU-27 flight model is very
good but I am not sure I like those weak graphics.
J.R.
pap...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> 29.95 is the last price I saw....34.95 with a useful strategy book by
> Tom Bashum...
>
> PAPA DOC
> Damage, Inc.
> Infamous Flanker Pilot...<G>
>
Gypsy
You made some good points Josh. In the end it depends what you
want out of a Flight Sim. Should an SU-27 with Enhanced graphics come
out I would be running to my local software store to grab a copy.
Perhaps my opinions are biased by the fact that I don't own a copy of
SU-27, but merely played it on others computers. DID and IM are both
supposed to put out flight sims based on the F-22 next year, perhaps
they will give us the best of both worlds. In the mean time I am only
considering the purchase of SU-27 and can only listen to what owners of
the game have to say about it. Thanks for your answers to my thread.
J.R.
Daniel Drumm
Gypsy (macla...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: Have there been enhancements added to this game (I.E. Patches,
: did not know what they were. I have played the Demo version of SU-27
: but didn't know if the graphics are better in the real game or have been
: enhanced in any other way. I realize that SU-27 flight model is very
: good but I am not sure I like those weak graphics.
:
: J.R.
Then go play F22, with it's gorgeous 4fps gfx and leave the real sims to
the people who can appreciate them.
Robin G. Kim
Gypsy <macla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Have there been enhancements added to this game (I.E. Patches,
>editors, etc...).
There have been several patches. The game already comes with a powerful
mission editor.
>I have seen a few different things around the web but
>did not know what they were. I have played the Demo version of SU-27
>but didn't know if the graphics are better in the real game or have been
>enhanced in any other way.
They have been, but the differences are not earth-shattering.
Rear-view mirrors were added, as were clouds, but the basic graphics
engine is the same.
>I realize that SU-27 flight model is very
>good but I am not sure I like those weak graphics.
The game is not for everyone. You have to decide for yourself whether you
think its strengths will outweigh its weaknesses in your eyes.
Clark A. Janes
In article <581p7r$8...@tepe.tezcat.com>, dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) wrote:
>Gypsy (macla...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>: Have there been enhancements added to this game (I.E. Patches,
>: but didn't know if the graphics are better in the real game or have been
>: J.R.
>
>Then go play F22, with it's gorgeous 4fps gfx and leave the real sims to
>the people who can appreciate them.
..but who can't deal with a little criticism. I haven't seen this type of
snobbery since the prop aces used to pick on the jet jocks for having radar and
missiles. Somebody asks an honest question, and even balances a negative
personal opinion with a supportive one, but he gets snubbed anyhow.
(Then Clark receives an "attack my target" wingman command somewhat like those
NOT found in Su-27. He dives in with his texture-mapped fighter-)
Pardon me oh great god fighter jock Daniel of Su-27 for not supplicating myself
in the presence of your words!!! You are such a BIG MAN for knowing how to hold
a radar lock button down for more than two seconds! Why I just realized I must
be godlike too for learning how to fly and knife-fight with the pig Tomcat in
Fleet Defender with its equally complicated avionics- *two* cockpits worth no
less! Oooops, my mistake, that sim had *texture-maps* so that must not be a
real sim. My humble apologies. Please demote me from your god club!
The more I see of these posts the more I wonder how many Su-27 owners
secretly miss the gfx in the other sims. It seems many must. Why else would
they go out of their way to slam people for merely asking? Seem to be awfully
sensitive about it.
Clark
Yang Hong
Can't agree more with Gypsy. EF2000 is absolutely not sth for just a few
hours play (USNF is). I have been playing it for more than eight months.
It's a fantastic achievement in flight-sim category and I even hate to
call it game: it's a SIMULATION and the virtual battlefield it provides is
nothing but truely amazing. Yes, it has flaws like wingman AI, premitive
wargen system (stupid waypoints), and, manybe, not so perfect
flight-model, but with all the depth EF2000 has I don't believe it can be
topped easily by anything else on the market currently. Not to mention
EF2000's graphics were a lightyear leap when it came out year ago, and its
virtual cockpit like wide angle view is super.
With most things I want to complain will be addressed by TACTCOM add-on,
EF2000 seems to be an endless fun to me. I just wish DID can tweak their
graphics even more like adding more details, making color more vivid (I'm
really tired of that dull outside color) and to improve the framerate with
help of 3d cards like 3dfx.
Anyway I believe EF2000 should be considered as the best flight-sim ever
created. Other games may surpass EF2000 at different aspects, but with
everything balanced, no one does the job better than EF2000.
Yang
In article <32A3D7...@earthlink.net>, Gypsy <macla...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> I am not sure why there are so many negative oppinions regarding
> EF2000. The graphics are far better than anything SU-27 has to offer.
> The missions are randomly generated and the AI is quite good. The
> cockpit is highly detailed and reflects this fighters glass cockpit
> technology. Perhaps the flight dynamics are not as true to life as
> SU-27, but find it hard to believe that all of the flamers have been
> behind the stick of one of these modern fighters. I have flown both of
> these games and I didn't like SU-27 after using the virtual cockpit of
> the EF2000. While this is only my opinion, I just don't understand why
> veterans of the Sukhoi so strongly shoot down EF2000.
>
Joel Hulsey
>I too found the whining pretty amusing and I bought the game anyways.
>What I find even more amusing is this: I bought 4 games in the last
>week. All of them Win95 games and all somewhat complex. I also bought
>a Thrustmaster F-22 Pro. The manual that came with the stick, had more
>pages that all the manuals from the other games combined. That is to
>say that only one game had anything relating to a manual.... most just
>had key-maps for the keyboard.
>Those that refuse to buy a game that doesn't have a manual are going to
>be coming upon hard times in the near future.
This is incorrect. Companies that refuse to give the customer what
they deserve are going to be upon hard times in the future. As long as
folks continue to buy "no manual software", then manuals are a thing
of the past. But when people speak up and refuse to reward that kind
of policy, then changes happen. We're not asking for anything
unrational, just some documentation that tells us how to play the damn
games without having to shell out another $19.99 for the damn strategy
guides!!!!
Joel Hulsey