Was 10 years ago "It" for PC games?
Morvak
Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
Wikipedia's Best Selling PC Games list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PC
- the list of recent games on this fails in comparison.
Then scroll down to find Top PC Sellers by genre:
Top PC sellers by genre
Adventure – Myst (6 million)
Computer role-playing game – Diablo II (4 million)
First-person shooter – Half-Life (8 million)
Third-person shooter - Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven (2 million)
Real-time strategy – StarCraft (9.5 million, may include StarCraft:
Brood War)
Simulation – The Sims (50 million)
How sad is this - all those games are about 10 years old, and the only
recent one, Mafia, is 6 years old.
Do you think we'll ever see a period in PC gaming like this? I don't.
It was a groundbreaking and revolutionary time. That's why I think 10
years ago was "it" for PC gaming and we'll never see anything like it
soon.
Adventure gamers have been given the shaft. Will we/they ever see
Myst, Monkey Island/Fandango/Space Quest and even Fallout type games
again?
I get my "adventure" game on by playing Lord of the Rings Online. It
also scratches my multiplayer and RPG itch.
I haven't bothered with COD4, or Crysis. No need to play another FPS
just because it's "graphically superb". COD's gameplay style is
getting old. There's more to games than just graphics (we all know
that). BioShock had hope until it's boss matches at the end of every
level got old, as well as it's terrible mini game. So much for
breathing life into the System Shock type series.
Morvak
> Half Life, Quake, The Sims, Unreal, Warcraft, Myst, Starcraft, Diablo,
> Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
> out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
And to add.. who knows if Fallout will get any life when FO3 comes out
in Oblivion-esque 3D style.
Andrew Plotkin
>
> Adventure gamers have been given the shaft. Will we/they ever see
> Myst, Monkey Island/Fandango/Space Quest and even Fallout type games
> again?
You know, I went through this in 1990-ish when Infocom shut down. "Oh,
no, the great era of adventure games is over!" (I was talking about
*1983*.)
Life is better now.
It's easy to be notable when you're first. Not even Cyan has been able
to follow up Myst with more successes as large as Myst. But graphical
adventures have done a lot *more* since then. More games, more
variety. And adventure elements have been incorporated into nearly
every other genre.
> I get my "adventure" game on by playing Lord of the Rings Online. It
> also scratches my multiplayer and RPG itch.
I get my adventure game on by playing adventure games. So what are you
complaining about? You're playing the games that you want to play.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
When Bush says "Stay the course," what he means is "I don't know what to
do next." He's been saying this for years now.
WDS
> How sad is this - all those games are about 10 years old, and the only
> recent one, Mafia, is 6 years old.
Or maybe after the initial Big Sell (which even those old games had)
it just takes a long time for games to sell a large number of copies?
Tim O
wrote:
>Half Life, Quake, The Sims, Unreal, Warcraft, Myst, Starcraft, Diablo,
>Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
>out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
>Wikipedia's Best Selling PC Games list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PC
>- the list of recent games on this fails in comparison.
The thing I miss most about that era is the simulations. At the time
when the Playstation was available up until the PS2 came out (right
when the era you listed here ends) it seemed like the gamey-games were
on the console and the more challenging, deeper stuff was on the PC.
PC people seemed to like the challenges of learning a flight simulator
or a deep strategy game.
With the advent of the PS2, and later the XBox, you started to see the
consoles morph into computers. The media, the online connectivity, the
hard drive storage, PC spec video chips, it's all converging and the
downside to this is that we're almost down to "lowest common
denominator" gaming. Console prices have skyrocketed, PC prices have
plummeted, and now every shlub has fast internet access. Much like old
timers say web forums have diluted usenet, computer-like consoles and
crappy Wal-Mart computers have diluted PC Gaming.
Like offerings from Hollywood, we are now subjected to mountains of
crap remakes, ported console games and stuff like The Sims which
appeals to people who are looking more for a time-filler than a game.
Every once in a while, something good makes it out, but now it's 3
times a year where it used to be 20.
I honestly think you're missing out on good experiences if you're
skipping stuff like Crysis and STALKER. They are more action oriented,
but still remind me of the kinds of titles I used to love when the PC
was the only place to get first person shooters. Crysis is pure old
school PC gaming, from the days when it didn't come out on the
console, because the console couldn't do it.
Tim
Schrodinger
>"Morvak" <mea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:dcc7d8ed-fd00-4557-aedf->ad987d...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>Half Life, Quake, The Sims, Unreal, Warcraft, Myst, Starcraft, Diablo,
>Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
Wikipedia's Best Selling PC Games list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PC
- the list of recent games on this fails in comparison.
Then scroll down to find Top PC Sellers by genre:
Top PC sellers by genre
Adventure – Myst (6 million)
Computer role-playing game – Diablo II (4 million)
First-person shooter – Half-Life (8 million)
Third-person shooter - Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven (2 million)
Real-time strategy – StarCraft (9.5 million, may include StarCraft:
Brood War)
Simulation – The Sims (50 million)
How sad is this - all those games are about 10 years old, and the only
recent one, Mafia, is 6 years old.
>
>Do you think we'll ever see a period in PC gaming like this? I don't.
>It was a groundbreaking and revolutionary time. That's why I think 10
>years ago was "it" for PC gaming and we'll never see anything like it
>soon.
__________________________________________________________
As far as I know, Valve don't release sales figures for Steam games. I
expect HL2 and expansions have gotten well over 2 million sales.
_____________________________________________________
>Adventure gamers have been given the shaft. Will we/they ever see
>Myst, Monkey Island/Fandango/Space Quest and even Fallout type games
again?
>I get my "adventure" game on by playing Lord of the Rings Online. It
>also scratches my multiplayer and RPG itch.
>I haven't bothered with COD4, or Crysis. No need to play another FPS
>just because it's "graphically superb". COD's gameplay style is
>getting old. There's more to games than just graphics (we all know
>that). BioShock had hope until it's boss matches at the end of every
>level got old, as well as it's terrible mini game. So much for
>breathing life into the System Shock type series.
COD4 was brilliant because of the story telling as much as anything. You
are losing out by not playing it!
Briarroot
>
> The thing I miss most about that era is the simulations. At the time
> when the Playstation was available up until the PS2 came out (right
> when the era you listed here ends) it seemed like the gamey-games were
> on the console and the more challenging, deeper stuff was on the PC.
> PC people seemed to like the challenges of learning a flight simulator
> or a deep strategy game.
>
> With the advent of the PS2, and later the XBox, you started to see the
> consoles morph into computers. The media, the online connectivity, the
> hard drive storage, PC spec video chips, it's all converging and the
> downside to this is that we're almost down to "lowest common
> denominator" gaming. Console prices have skyrocketed, PC prices have
> plummeted, and now every shlub has fast internet access. Much like old
> timers say web forums have diluted usenet, computer-like consoles and
> crappy Wal-Mart computers have diluted PC Gaming.
>
Good call.
> Like offerings from Hollywood, we are now subjected to mountains of
> crap remakes, ported console games and stuff like The Sims which
> appeals to people who are looking more for a time-filler than a game.
> Every once in a while, something good makes it out, but now it's 3
> times a year where it used to be 20.
>
And lets not forget that some who experienced that era may view current
releases as just retreads or re-makes of those golden oldies of fond
memory. We've seen much of this stuff before and our evaluations of the
major games of *this* era tend to reflect that.
> I honestly think you're missing out on good experiences if you're
> skipping stuff like Crysis and STALKER. They are more action oriented,
> but still remind me of the kinds of titles I used to love when the PC
> was the only place to get first person shooters. Crysis is pure old
> school PC gaming, from the days when it didn't come out on the
> console, because the console couldn't do it.
>
Well said.
--
"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the
distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every
time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists
conclude that we object to its being done at all." - Frederic Bastiat
Wolfing
> Half Life, Quake, The Sims, Unreal, Warcraft, Myst, Starcraft, Diablo,
> Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
> out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
> - the list of recent games on this fails in comparison.
>
It's almost not fair. Back then it took a team of maybe 10-20 to make
those great games. Characters were either sprites or low-polygon
characters that could be animated with little effort. A game could
cost $100K to make, maybe even $250k, which at $40/game it could be
recouped with selling 10k games.
Nowadays, it costs a lot more to make games. 3d engine, high-res
characters with thousands of polygons, environments, voice-acting,
orchestra, etc. etc. Cost of making games is in the millions now,
needing 100k sales to just break even. Now you need to appeal to the
'masses', and probably go cross-platform.
Sadly, in a way the constant hardware spiraling capabilities have
harmed gaming. I guess in a way it's not much different than
Hollywood. Movies cost much more to make now than, say, 20 years ago,
so again they have to appeal to the masses (perfect example, they
turned 'Get Smart' from a pure comedy series into action/comedy). You
won't see many 'Citizen Kane' movies now, but you'll see explosions
and car chases in 4 of every 5 movies out there.
rpgs rock dvds
Good post.
Perhaps there is some hope left with "indie games"?
Perhaps we should all buy Grimoire when it comes out? ;-)
Warren
Uh-oh. You just opened a can of worms with that one..... Ready for a
CleveWar...?
--
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ ...><((((º>
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiyapedia/ Sushi-Ya-Pedia Restaurant Finder
HTTP://www.theteafaq.com/ The Tea FAQ
HTTP://www.jerkyfaq.com/ The Jerky FAQ
HTTP://www.omega3faq.com/ The Omega 3 Fatty Acids FAQ
Doug Jacobs
> Good post.
> Perhaps there is some hope left with "indie games"?
> Perhaps we should all buy Grimoire when it comes out? ;-)
I remember in the early 90s when computer games were still pretty scarce,
but the shareware field was full of interesting titles...including one
from this little known development house called iD who did this game they
called DOOM.
Now, we're witnessing the other end of the cycle. Computer games are once
again becoming marginalized - overshadowed by their console brethern.
Even most PC gamers have a console lying around. But all is not lost,
for once again the indie/underground/shareware realm is re-emerging and
taking up the slack left by the big corporate companies who won't do a
game unless it has a guaranteed minimum run comparable to most Hollywood
movies.
You don't need big flashy budgets to make a good game - all you need is
creativity and talent.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
Nostromo
Very insightful Tim - POTM!
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
> Good post.
> Perhaps there is some hope left with "indie games"?
> Perhaps we should all buy Grimoire when it comes out? ;-)
You...did...not...just...say...that...:-/
--
Nostromo
Nostromo
Spot on, and a passion for your art, beyond maximising ROI. I mean, FFS,
most dev teams can license a mmo/rpg/fps/whatever engine for a
reasonable price these days & there's half the game done for you!
Actually, I'm interested if anyone knows, what do some of the larger
game engine licenses sell for? E.g. Source, Doom3, Unreal, etc...?
A quick Google even shows up low-budget engines like Cipher & Torque.
Hey, even I could write a game these days! :)
Some interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine
--
Nostromo
Ross Ridge
>Half Life, Quake, The Sims, Unreal, Warcraft, Myst, Starcraft, Diablo,
>Fallout, System Shock, Thief... and on and on... all those games came
>out around 1996 to 2000ish. Most of them appearing on
>_best-selling_video_games#PC
>- the list of recent games on this fails in comparison.
There are plenty of recent games on that list.
>Then scroll down to find Top PC Sellers by genre:
>
>Top PC sellers by genre
>Adventure =96 Myst (6 million)
>Computer role-playing game =96 Diablo II (4 million)
>First-person shooter =96 Half-Life (8 million)
>Third-person shooter - Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven (2 million)
>Real-time strategy =96 StarCraft (9.5 million, may include StarCraft:
>Brood War)
>Simulation =96 The Sims (50 million)
>
>How sad is this - all those games are about 10 years old, and the only
>recent one, Mafia, is 6 years old.
If you look at the top console games by genre you also find a lot of
categories where the number one game was released 6 or more year ago.
The biggest selling console RPG came out in 1996, while the biggest
selling console platform game came out in 1985!
The differences between PC games and consoles on the list aren't as a
big you make it. As the computer games industry has grown there been
an even greater increase in competition. Despite that overall number
of games being sold has increased, it's much harder for a PC or console
game to become a break out hit.
I think that differences that do exist can be explained by several
factors. One is the longevity of PC games. You can go to store today
and buy a new copy Myst, Diablo II, Half-Life, Mafia, StarCraft, and
The Sims. Genres like turned based stragey and MMORPGs are missing so
relatively recent games like Lineage 2 and Civilization IV. Finally,
getting reliable information on PC games sales is harder than console
games, so the list is missing more PC games than console games.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
arioch
nost...@spamfree.org says...
What, buying it or it coming out? Last I heard it was going to be sold
with Duke Nukem Forever on STEAM -- I thought it was going to be called
the No-Box.
--arioch
rpgs rock dvds
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Crystal Space" is a free cross-platform software development kit for
realtime 3D graphics, with particular focus on games. (line taken from
their website @ http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Main_Page)
Pibbur
...>
> Do you think we'll ever see a period in PC gaming like this? I don't.
> It was a groundbreaking and revolutionary time. That's why I think 10
> years ago was "it" for PC gaming and we'll never see anything like it
> soon.
...>
Well, I don't think the situation is as bleak as you view it.
Ok, we haven't got a new PS:T, but that one was a very rare gem IMO.
But we have got Civilization IV, The Witcher, Gothic 2, Half Life 2, all
games which I think are very good. And - a lot of people will disagree
with me here - I will also include Morrowind and to a lesser degree
Oblivion (Why? Because of it's lore). And I can see no reason why we
couldn't get a great AD&D game like BG2 again. (and a lot of average/
mediocre ones as well, of course).
Then there are the MMO's: LOTRO, Guild Wars. Maybe Aoc in a year or so.
These games, although not revolutionary like
As for graphics - one thing I think is very good with Wow, is it's
graphics. Which are far from state-of-the art, but sufficient. And proves
that a game can be successful despite below standard graphics. It also
allows fairly old computers to play it. I'm not saying that WoW is great,
btw, even if I like it, but I hope that this aspect of the game would
inspire other companies.
On a less serious side: Finally a couple of games which started their
development proces back then are finished. We got "Prey". Maybe we'll also
get Duke Nukem Forever.
3 games I'd like to see, but probably/definitely won't
- another Wizardry
- another Ultima (like U7)
- another Hexen
--
Pibbur
namekuseijin
mainframes or 50s early valve computers. This disgust against
consoles is completely bogus and I actually feel sad for long-time
"adventure" fans who never met Super Metroid, The Legend of Zelda:
OoT, Castlevania: SotN, Ico, Shadow of Colossus, Silent Hill or indeed
even Metal Gear Solid.
Morvak
I am not complaining at all. : )
I just think that the best times I had in gaming were in the 1995-2000
"era". Of course technology was new and advancing, and so were the
games but... for all the tech we have today, I just don't see why we
can't be having a plethora of great games. (i mean i know why - "cha-
ching")
namekuseijin
> What the heck has e.g. Castlevania: SotN or MGS have to do with
> adventure games (as in, what PC gamers at
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure normally consider as adventure games)?
I'd say they've taken a lot of influence from the old point-and-click
games.
> Castlevania SOTN is a glorified platform jumping twitch action game
> with basically no adventure gaming elements
The jumping mechanics is just as negligible as the point-and-click
mechanics. You wander around settings collecting stuff and solving
puzzles to get to the next setting. It has a pretty good background
story as well, as far as 2D side-scrollers go.
>, and MGS is an action
> "game"
It's a stealth game and if there's too much shooting action around,
chances are you've done something wrong.
It features getting items "on-site" which will be needed to progress.
It features rich interaction with the settings in search for clues,
items, hidden passageways and hideouts. It also features the best
storyline and dialogue I've ever witnessed in a videogame as well as
lovely funny and silly moments. I think this all sounds awefully
familiar to adventure fans.
> non-interactive FMV parts here and there and the
It's not video, but rendered with the game graphics engine. At the
very least, this means you can move the camera a bit and perhaps from
different angles rather than simply watch a simple animation.
> most stupid and childish story ever in a computer/video game.
Well, this is all a matter of opinion, indeed: I found it deep,
refreshing and much better than anything out of Hollywood blockbusters
in the last 15 years.
I do find this one particular amusing, though, coming from someone who
probably lusts for "Day of the Tentacle" or "Monkey Island".
> ICO and Shadow of Colossus might interest some adventure gaming fans,
> but they are still action(-adventure) games at best.
You're looking to much into the superficial play mechanics rather than
the player experience in these games. Both of these games and MGS as
well feature almost no battles and in the case of MGS and SoC, the
battles are really just a puzzle: discover the weak spots and how to
tackle them in a logical way. Manual dextery is not strictly
required.
Andy Kosela
>
> I just think that the best times I had in gaming were in the 1995-2000
> "era".
Hmm. Personally I think that 1990-1995 era was much more productive in
terms of adventure games. All classics from LucasArts, Revolution or
VGA Sierra games were all produced during those times.
--
Andy Kosela
ora et labora