My 1997 gaming review
Rob Merritt
This is my annual gaming year in review. I normally just do a simply
list of games I liked and didn't like. This year I wanted to explain a
bit more. See, a lot of people feel this was a great year for computer
games, I feel very differently. I feel that this could be the
beginning of the end of the hobby. I know that this was a record year
for profits, but I feel this momentum will come crashing down next
year. The number of bad, buggy and simply unplayable games are
increasing at an alarming rate. Look at my favorite list, half are
console games. This hasn't happen in 12 years. Then there is the
upgrading. I'm throwing $400+ every six months into my computer and
its still below the ever accelerating curve. I'm finding playing with
Lego blocks and watching movies are more rewarding than the average
computer game. However it might be that I'm just growing up. I've been
computer gaming for 20 of my 28 years on this rock and this might be a
young person's hobby. Or it might be a phase. I felt similar feelings
back in 1992. Naaa.. what am I saying??...games are just sucking more.
On the plus side, some games that were good were REALLY good and
border of genre defining. .
For reference sakes, my current system:
Pentium 166mmx 32 megs of edo ram 512k pipeline burst cache
Intergraph Intense 100 (Rendition v1000)
Diamond Monster 3D (3DFX Voodoo1)
2.5 gig ide hard drive
8x cdrom.
Favorite games
1. Dungeon Keeper - (PC)This may anger many but Dungeon Keeper was the
best game of 1997. Assuming the AI worked (it did for me) the game was
challenging, fun, and quite humorous. A truly original game.
2. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II - (PC)Leave it to a Star Wars game to
teach Quake a thing or two. The best first person shooter I've ever
played.
3. GoldenEye - (N64)If I was king, I would take any game programmer
even contemplating a first person shooter and make them play GoldenEye
over and over to some of it rubs off on them. Its amazing, the first
good 1st person shooter since Duke Nukem 3D and it was on the N64
console. Almost tied with Jedi Knight which is only ahead because of
the "Star Wars" factor.
4. Crash Bandicoot 2 - (PSX)A very nice improvement to the original. I
figured that the Playstation's power had been pushed to the max with
Crash 1 but I was wrong. Crash 2 is superior in graphics, freedom of
game play and character. Probably my favorite platform game of all
time. Easily my favorite Playstation game of the year.
5. Soul Blade - (PSX)My favorite fighting game of all time. The
graphics, control, theme, everything was in tune with me. Plus
adventure mode was a pleasant addition to the standard fighting fair.
6. Colony Wars - (PSX)This game was COOOOOOL! Graphically this game
was amazing. I have never seen anything remotely close on a console.
Hell, it almost matches Wing Commander Prophecy. Game plays it was a
little thin but still worth the price.
7. Herc's Adventure - (PSX)This game caught me by total surprise. I
really hadn't been looking for this game at all. Then I tried the demo
that came with one of the CDs and I was hooked. The game play harkens
back to the 16 bit era but the graphics are 32 bits all the way.
Having a choice of three different characters enhanced replay
possibilities.
8. Curse of Monkey Island - (PC)Aren't we all a little like Guybrush
at heart. This marks the third game for the good hearted, but
bumbling, pirate wanna be and while its not the best, its pretty darn
good. A true gem.
9. Fallout - (PC)Finally a good SciFi RPG game. I was beginning to get
worried because the decade is almost over and all the good SciFi RPG
were from the 80's! However if your not a fan of SCiFi, Fallout is
still a great RPG. Something to hold you over to Might and Magic 6.
10. X-COM: Apocalypse - (PC)The best squad based game available this
year. Surprisingly enough the real time mode was done very well.
However Xcom 3 lacked in many other areas such as style. This game
shouldn't have been on the favorites list but alas it is.
Honorable mentions for games I have only played the demo
1. Quake II - (PC)Finally someone at Id woke up. The demo was truly
enjoyable. Graphically it beats Jedi Knight, the game play was a
little weaker but still far better than Quake. While I only got a
taste, the demo left me wanting a lot more. I didn't buy it since it
was released too close to the holidays.
2. Wing Commander Prophecy - (PC)The test and the full demo left me in
awe. I simply can't believe my PC was able to produce the graphics
this game has. If you haven't found a reason to get a 3DFX card (or a
good D3D card like a Rendition 2x00) this is it. Another game I
couldn't buy because it came out after I spent all my money Christmas
shopping.
3. Grand Theft Auto - (PC)This demo is a blast. Despite having a
horribly crippled time limit, I played this demo more than some of my
favorite games. The game harkens back to the days of the Commodore 64.
Basically a 2D car game, its spiced up with good graphics and random
violent. I didn't buy this one because the US release date keeps
getting pushed back.
4. MotoRacer - (PC)It took long enough for the PC to get a good arcade
racer. Its slick, smooth and very nice. All the things you want from
an arcade racer is here in this package. My problem is that I own a
Playstation with better racers already.
5. MDK - (PC & PSX)A 3D platformer with attitude. The graphics,
especially with a 3D card, were outstanding and the design and theme
gelled well. However I had troubles with the controls. Being limited
since birth to the use of only my left hand, many complicated moves
needed to even complete the demo were impossible for me.
6. Hexen II - (PC)The first game to make something useful with the
Quake engine. The graphic were good and the theme was excellent, but I
was just more in the mood to shoot something.
7. Fighting Force - (PC)Now here is a cool fighting game that captures
the feel of movie fights. I replayed this little demo for hours. Great
3D accelerated graphics too. Too bad it isn't going to be released in
the US.
8. Shadows of the Empire - (PC & N64)Great looking game. The game play
was on the thin side but fun. I plan to pick this game up when it hits
the bargain bins.
9. Twinsen Odessey - (PC)I'm not sure why I haven't bought this game.
Maybe I'm waiting for it to hit the bargain bins. Maybe I didn't care
for Relentless. In any case, the demo was really good and fun.
10. Mageslayer -(PC) A cool concept of Gauntlet meets Quake. Because
of its cheap price, I placed it on my Christmas list. I didn't get it
but I should pick it up in a few weeks.
Disappointments:
1. Streets of Sim City - (PC)I may very well be responsible for this
mess. A loooong time ago, Maxis asked for game ideas for add ons to
Sim City 2000. At the time I was a beta tester for Maxis, I talked to
everyone I knew that I thought some sort of combat racing game would
be cool. The papers were filled with head lines on how motorist were
taking up arms in my little sim city, I just wanted to be involved. I
fear that my idea took root but it was a bad idea. The game, when
released was absolutely horrible. Easily in the top 10 worse games of
all time. Besides the fact that there isn't much of a game to start
with the graphics are amazingly bad. On my Pentium 166 with 3DFX, its
a slide show. Heck, on a Pentium II its still a freaking slide show! I
know its trite but this game didn't ship, it escaped.
2. Postal - (PC)My god what an over hyped piece of crap Postal was.
The theme didn't bother me. In fact I like the idea of mowing down
people in a murderous rampage. In a game of course. However Postal
looked and played like an early 80's Nintendo game. Only the sound
effects gave you a hint that some thing evil was going on. 16 levels
of lameness that could have been done better by a 12 year old using
Klik & Play.
3. Star Fleet Academy - (PC)What the hell was Interplay thinking? This
game was in development for 3 years and it came out looking and
playing like a lame Wing Commander clone. Nothing like the Star Trek
series.
4. Shadow Warrior - (PC)This game was ok. Duke Nukem 3D was better
though. Didn't live up to the hype and I never once thought I was
playing a ninja.
5. The Neverhood - (PC)This game could have been good but the puzzles
were lame and way too much reading was required for a graphic
adventure.
6. Interstate '76 - (PC)I'm a child of the 70's. I'll admit it, I like
Disco. I like retro. I want to like this game but can't. The cut
scenes are good, the music was done well, and the graphics were
acceptable. However the frame rate was horrible, the AI was all but
useless, and the game was terribly short. Maybe multi player was cool
but I don't like multi player games.
7. The Space Bar -(PC) A classic case of the world was lost because of
the want of a nail. Dang it the disk swapping was painful. That alone
killed what could have been a great adventure game.
8. X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter - (PC)What was the point of this game? Why
are they releasing games with worse engines than their old games? Even
with the 3D patch this is a dust collector. I would be happy with a
Tie CD 3D patch. Hell I wouldn't mind paying for that.
9. X-MEN: Children of the Atom - (PC)I should of known. Any game
published by Acclaim is certain death. It would take way to long to
explain what was wrong with this port. I'll sum it up by saying that I
believe that the programers never played the original in the arcade.
10. FINAL FANTASY VII - (PSX)I've never understood what is the
fascination with Japanese style rpgs. There is so little thought
involved they make Myst look like an interactive RPG tour de force!
The game play is ultra linear. The RPG elements are almost
nonexistent. Lets face it, its an early 80's adventure game with
combat and stats. The game can be complete in a few days and no
challenge is ever provided. The graphics, while nice, aren't all that
good. All we're left with is "the story" which isn't all that great.
The story isn't bad but not worth the mindless droning called playing.
Disappointments that I've only played the demo
1. Balls of Steel - (PC)I love Pinball. I wish Epic would get off
their butts and release another pinball game. Anyway Apogee has
released a game called Balls of Steel. After trying five different
computers which were above recommend specs, I have yet to get the game
running smooth. I really disappointment. It looks like it might have
been fun.
2. Dark Reign - (PC)I was psyched about this real time strategy game.
With advance troop controls, I figured this was going to be a game of
advance tactics. Not true. The extra controls are useless. Its another
C&C clone with extra and unusable options.
3. Total Annihilation - (PC)All the game magazines were hyping this
real time strategy game for months. Yet another dumb C&C clone but
this time with 3D graphics. Weeeee.
4. Myth: The Fallen Lords - (PC)This game could have been great but
the demo levels seemed to be too much puzzle like.
5. Falcon 4.0 - (PC)Falcon 4.0 has been a really long time in the
making. Which explains why the graphics, even with a 3DFX card, seem
old. The demos mission and game play is ok, but I hopped for more.
6. Carmageddon - (PC)I may give this game a second chance when it hits
the bargain bins. I disliked the control a lot.
7. Redneck Rampage -(PC) A 12 meg demo that let me play a whole 1/3 of
a level. I dislike things that take less time to play than to
download. I refuse to even look at Redneck Rampage until a proper demo
shows up.
8. 7th Legion - (PC)Ahh.. the only game Epic has released this year
and its a stinker. I can't imagine a worse real time strategy game
being created even if someone tried. The interface is completely un
responsive, the graphics are early 1990's despite the MMX, and the
game play is pure C&C ripped. This project should have been killed.
9. Pappra the Rappra - (PC)This isn't a bad game but it failed to live
up to the hype. It was this original game from oversees that all the
game magazines praised. No other game like it. When it show up, it
turns out to be Simon Says with some creativity aloud. I guess game
magazine writers didn't play with other kids a lot when they were
young.
10. Pitfall 3D - (PC)This demo screams "Playstation can't do a 3D game
like N64 came." A bad 3D engine and poor level design kills a really
good game concept. Well lets hope for the best.
Disappointing no shows
1. Guardians Agents of Justice - (PC)The wait for this game is
painful. I can't take much more. Look at this list of release dates.
It was due summer 96, Christmas 96, then it was canceled, then revived
for summer 97, slipped to fall 97, and now planed for Spring 98.
According to a graphic designer, the game was completely done when
they decided to "update it." Goodness they could of released it last
year and released a sequel next summer in that time. Plus the update
has reduced the frames of animation to 400,000 from 700,000 frames. It
doesn't matter too much, but still. Any ways, this Super Hero strategy
game, along with MM6 and Overseer are the only three titles I'm
willing to buy without first reading a review or playing a demo.
2. Unreal - (PC)What the heck is wrong with Epic? I really need to
drive down to them and see what is up since they are only a 25 minute
drive away. Unreal is the first game that I've seen that a company has
bought ad space, shown screen shots in the ads and not one single line
of code was written. Due last Summer as well, this Quake killer has
been a moving target. Features keep getting thrown at it and it keeps
getting pushed back further and further. It has a lot of nice features
I crave, but then so does Half-life.
3. Jazz Jackrabbit 2 - (PC)Another game from the company that just
wouldn't release, Epic. This 2D platformer has been almost done since
last summer. Latest word is that Jazz2 should be out by Christmas (but
it wasn't) and it was being "updated" for the Pentium II.
4. Battlesphere - (JAG)No Battlesphere. Gee that is a big surprise.
Originally due out Christmas 95, this game has become a holly grail
for owners of the Atari Jaguar. Sadly, 4Play, the developers of
Battlesphere, apparently are the Derek Smart of the Atari community.
I'm not sure why I keep looking out for it. I played it at last year's
Toad fest and it played like a day glow Xwing vs Tie Fighter clone. I
guess seeing development abandon or the game released would bring
closure to the whole Jaguar farce which is a thorn in my soul since I
bought one in 94.
5. Baldur's Gate - (PC)I'm not really love sick over this puppy but it
looks like a really good AD&D game and it would be nice to be able to
play it now instead of next year.
6. Tex Murphy: Overseer - (PC)I have never been disappointed by a Tex
Murphy game and I've played all four of them. I can't wait for the
next chapter but alas, I have to.
7. Might and Magic 6 - (PC)Its the next chapter in the greatest
computer RPG series of all time, nuff said.
8. Half-Life - (PC)This Quake based game looks like it could be the
GoldenEye of the PC world. However it was delayed and that is almost
always been the sign of a trouble game in retooling.
9. StarCraft - (PC)I like Blizzards games. It would be nice to see
them release something every year.
10. Star Trek: Secret of Vulcan Fury - (PC)This game looks like a
Trekker's wet dream. Digital actors with the voices of the originals.
Looks hot. Too bad this adventure is due in star dock next spring
instead of last fall.
Rob Merritt
My Might and Magic page:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/homm.html
My Toy page starring Micronauts and LegoBlocks:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/micro.html
Neil Fradkin
> 6. Interstate '76 - (PC)I'm a child of the 70's. I'll admit it, I like
> Disco. I like retro. I want to like this game but can't. The cut
> scenes are good, the music was done well, and the graphics were
> acceptable. However the frame rate was horrible, the AI was all but
> useless, and the game was terribly short. Maybe multi player was cool
> but I don't like multi player games.
I had a p120 when I76 came out. With sky and terrain texture off the
framerate was fine. Mutliplayer was the big strong point of this game.
> 4. Myth: The Fallen Lords - (PC)This game could have been great but
> the demo levels seemed to be too much puzzle like.
That's odd, there only one level in myth I consider puzzle like. The
two in the demo are straight up tactical challenges. When you first play
the levels, you don't know how to use the different troops properlly, so
it may seem like a puzzle, but this one of the least puzzle like
non-turn based strategy games. Myth is really the best game to come out
in 97 IMHO (and for that matter, ever, not by a huge margin or anything,
but all things considered, Myth is about the best game I have ever
played). Of course multiplayer is a big factor in how fun myth is. The
single player game is fantastic, but pales in comparison to the
mutliplayer experience.
Mark Asher
Neil Fradkin <nfra...@secant.com> wrote:
snip
>
>> 4. Myth: The Fallen Lords - (PC)This game could have been great but
>> the demo levels seemed to be too much puzzle like.
>
> That's odd, there only one level in myth I consider puzzle like. The
>two in the demo are straight up tactical challenges. When you first play
>the levels, you don't know how to use the different troops properlly, so
>it may seem like a puzzle, but this one of the least puzzle like
>non-turn based strategy games. Myth is really the best game to come out
>in 97 IMHO (and for that matter, ever, not by a huge margin or anything,
>but all things considered, Myth is about the best game I have ever
>played). Of course multiplayer is a big factor in how fun myth is. The
>single player game is fantastic, but pales in comparison to the
>mutliplayer experience.
There are a lot of levels that require you to find the right path
between enemies. Since you cannot know this in advance, these are a
bit puzzlish in their design, though most also require you to exercise
tactics.
Myth is number two on my personal list, with Diablo being number 1 for
1997.
Mark Asher
Espen Sortland
rob...@jagunet.com (Rob Merritt) writes:
**snipp**
>
> Disappointments that I've only played the demo
>
**snipp**
>
> 5. Falcon 4.0 - (PC)Falcon 4.0 has been a really long time in the
> making. Which explains why the graphics, even with a 3DFX card, seem
> old. The demos mission and game play is ok, but I hopped for more.
>
**snipp**
Hoped for more??? What do you mean more?
Falcon4.0 (demo) is IMHO better than alot of complete(?) games out
there...
Oh, btw: you forgot to mention Jane's Longbow2, one kickass sim!! :)
>
> Rob Merritt
> My Might and Magic page:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/homm.html
> My Toy page starring Micronauts and
> LegoBlocks:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/micro.html
>
--
|Espen 'WildEye' Sortland -*- esp...@online.no -*- Phone +47 92442211
|"Echo 88 this is Echo 91, be adviced, we have enemy fast movers in
|your area, over!" - *Run away!!!*
--
Rob Merritt
Espen Sortland <esp...@pc220.janco.sn.no> wrote:
>> 5. Falcon 4.0 - (PC)Falcon 4.0 has been a really long time in the
>> making. Which explains why the graphics, even with a 3DFX card, seem
>> old. The demos mission and game play is ok, but I hopped for more.
>>
>**snipp**
>Hoped for more??? What do you mean more?
Well, I just want it to look better. Longbow2 and JSF looked better.
>Falcon4.0 (demo) is IMHO better than alot of complete(?) games out
>there...
Like?
>Oh, btw: you forgot to mention Jane's Longbow2, one kickass sim!! :)
I didn't forget about it, I just haven't played if for more than 5
minutes and a friends house and I'm unable to give an opinion about
it. plus haveing only a pentium 166 mmx with 3DFX card, it might be be
too slow.
Neil Fradkin
> There are a lot of levels that require you to find the right path
> between enemies. Since you cannot know this in advance, these are a
> bit puzzlish in their design, though most also require you to exercise
> tactics.
That's true. "Flight from covenant" and especially "Silvermies" are
like that. But even in "Silvermines" there is no one right path. As long
as you keep together and keep an eye on the enemies you are ok (until
usually you have to face off one patrol group near the ramp up to the
graveyard). Silvermines was the level that frustrated the heck out of me
at first, until I realized that the patrols don't follow too far when
you run away and I was going about things completly wrong. On "Flight" I
was so super cautions after that huge initial battle, from a survival
perspective I figured It'd be better to go around the horde (it was hard
to repress thoughts of somehow using my dwarf to kill them all). I
always sent a warrior or two foward to scout areas, so I didn't get
wighted luckily. These levels didn't really seem like puzzles to me
though (once I realized that killing everything wasn't only necessary,
but was actually a very bad idea to attempt ;). "Smiths" is the only
level that really screams puzzle to me.
Enough of this rambling. As I said Myth is certianly my #1 (100% of the
reason for the multiplay, the solo is just a neat bonus to me :), with
SM's Gettusburg being #2 (by a tiny margin), and I76, Diablo, and
Fallout, and Warlords 3 rounding out the best of, exact places depending
on what I'm in the mood for that day ;)
How about this, what are you favorite older games that you discovered,
rediscovered, or just never stopped playing in 97. JA:DG is top of the
list (again for multiplay, I had a friend who loved to make maps for 2
player co-op and deathmatch modem missions), and I got Darklands this
year (and all the patches) and have had a fantastic time with it.
Ben Flieger
Rob Merritt wrote in message <68drh8$jo7$1...@skydiver.jaguNET.com>...
[snipped review]
Someone who has FIGHTING GAMES ahead of I'76 and FF7? DK #1? Are you stupid,
or just 11?
Mark Asher
Neil Fradkin <nfra...@secant.com> wrote:
snip
> How about this, what are you favorite older games that you discovered,
>rediscovered, or just never stopped playing in 97. JA:DG is top of the
>list (again for multiplay, I had a friend who loved to make maps for 2
>player co-op and deathmatch modem missions), and I got Darklands this
>year (and all the patches) and have had a fantastic time with it.
Hmmm, JA:DG didn't work over the net when I was playing it. Does it
work now? Where do people play it? Darklands I've heard good things
about and want to try it, but Baldur's Gate will probably be out soon.
I don't think I played any older games this year. Everything was new.
Mark Asher
Neil Fradkin
> Hmmm, JA:DG didn't work over the net when I was playing it. Does it
> work now? Where do people play it? Darklands I've heard good things
> about and want to try it, but Baldur's Gate will probably be out soon.
I've only played over the modem. It's supposed to work over kali, and
the patch that came out was supposed to help that funtionality. I tried
kali once pre patch, got the game running, but it was way to slow to
play. Darklands is worth a look. In a lot of ways it's more like an rpg
than any other CPRG ever made.
Nosferatu
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:22:29 GMT, rob...@jagunet.com (Rob Merritt)
wrote:
>I didn't forget about it, I just haven't played if for more than 5
>minutes and a friends house and I'm unable to give an opinion about
>it. plus haveing only a pentium 166 mmx with 3DFX card, it might be be
>too slow.
>
Then don't post this shit in the flight-sim newsgroup. Do you think we
in the flight-sim group give a fuck which console games you think are
the best? Get a clue.
--
Nos
[This Space Left Intentionally Blank]
Sal Manfredonia
I clipped a lot out of Rob's original post, and I'm just going to address
specific games.
Rob Merritt wrote in message <68drh8$jo7$1...@skydiver.jaguNET.com>...
>This is my annual gaming year in review. I normally just do a simply
>list of games I liked and didn't like. This year I wanted to explain a
>bit more.
[snip]
>Favorite games
>4. Crash Bandicoot 2 - (PSX)A very nice improvement to the original. I
>figured that the Playstation's power had been pushed to the max with
>Crash 1 but I was wrong. Crash 2 is superior in graphics, freedom of
>game play and character. Probably my favorite platform game of all
>time. Easily my favorite Playstation game of the year.
>6. Colony Wars - (PSX)This game was COOOOOOL! Graphically this game
>was amazing. I have never seen anything remotely close on a console.
>Hell, it almost matches Wing Commander Prophecy. Game plays it was a
>little thin but still worth the price.
For me, my favorite PlayStation game this year is a tossup between Crash
Bandicoot 2 and Colony Wars. Both have been polished until they shine. I
highly recommend both games!
>7. Herc's Adventure - (PSX)This game caught me by total surprise. I
>really hadn't been looking for this game at all. Then I tried the demo
>that came with one of the CDs and I was hooked. The game play harkens
>back to the 16 bit era but the graphics are 32 bits all the way.
>Having a choice of three different characters enhanced replay
>possibilities.
>
>8. Curse of Monkey Island - (PC)Aren't we all a little like Guybrush
>at heart. This marks the third game for the good hearted, but
>bumbling, pirate wanna be and while its not the best, its pretty darn
>good. A true gem.
LucasArts was responsible for these last two, as well as BallBlazer
Champions which is also a very nice game (though I admittedly had trouble
getting into it at first). OTOH, most of the Star Wars console games in the
last 3-4 years have been average to poor. I'm beginning to wonder why
LucasArts has difficulty making a good Star Wars game on consoles,
especially when the Star Wars computer games are generally pretty good to
excellent. Sadly, stuff like Star Wars: Masters of Teras Kasi sells at least
moderately well simply on license, and has probably outsold Herc's
Adventures and BallBlazer Champions combined.
>Disappointments:
>5. The Neverhood - (PC)This game could have been good but the puzzles
>were lame and way too much reading was required for a graphic
>adventure.
I haven't played this, but a couple of my friends keep recommending it. I'm
interested in knowing more on why you didn't like it. But while we're on the
subject of graphic adventures, one that took me by surprise was The Last
Express by Broderbund. That was really worth it.
>6. Interstate '76 - (PC)I'm a child of the 70's. I'll admit it, I like
>Disco. I like retro. I want to like this game but can't. The cut
>scenes are good, the music was done well, and the graphics were
>acceptable. However the frame rate was horrible, the AI was all but
>useless, and the game was terribly short. Maybe multi player was cool
>but I don't like multi player games.
Huh? I would have to say that it is one of the BEST games of 1997! On my
machine (Pentium 120 MHz), I have to drop to 320x240 and turn off a few of
the textures to get an acceptable frame rate. Aside from that, this game is
pure gold, from the storyline to the awesome voice acting to the nail-biting
action. Too bad you haven't tried multiplayer, it's awesome.
>9. X-MEN: Children of the Atom - (PC)I should of known. Any game
>published by Acclaim is certain death. It would take way to long to
>explain what was wrong with this port. I'll sum it up by saying that I
>believe that the programers never played the original in the arcade.
I didn't play the full game, but I tried the demo briefly and it seemed to
be really good! Again, please elaborate on why you didn't like it. I can get
the game for only $12.99 (it was originally released at $19.99), and since I
don't have a Saturn (which has an excellent version of X-Men: CotA) this
might be a good substitute. Do you think it's worth even that?
>10. FINAL FANTASY VII - (PSX)I've never understood what is the
>fascination with Japanese style rpgs. There is so little thought
>involved they make Myst look like an interactive RPG tour de force!
>The game play is ultra linear. The RPG elements are almost
>nonexistent. Lets face it, its an early 80's adventure game with
>combat and stats. The game can be complete in a few days and no
>challenge is ever provided. The graphics, while nice, aren't all that
>good. All we're left with is "the story" which isn't all that great.
>The story isn't bad but not worth the mindless droning called playing.
Agreed 100%! I tried the demo of this and I too wondered what the heck all
the hype was about. The game is so incredibly scripted that it isn't even
funny. The random monster encounters are laughable--I mean, it's supposed to
be simulating the "element of surprise," but how the heck does that come
into play when you're walking across a long, narrow, metal bridge several
hundred feet off the ground? I wish they put some graphical power into
explaining THAT rather than having enemies just materialize out of nowhere
for the sake of artificially lengthening what is already a linear,
tightly-scripted game. Adventure on the Atari 2600 was better than this!
>Disappointments that I've only played the demo
>10. Pitfall 3D - (PC)This demo screams "Playstation can't do a 3D game
>like N64 came." A bad 3D engine and poor level design kills a really
>good game concept. Well lets hope for the best.
(I think you meant PlayStation, not PC)
Contrary to your opinion, I thought this was the best demo on JamPack Vol.
1. Yes, I realize there are a few rough edges that could be smoothed out,
but you must keep in mind that this is only a demo. Also, Activision delayed
this game for several months past its original release date; I supposed
they're putting in some more improvements. I know I'm looking forward to
this game!
>Disappointing no shows
>4. Battlesphere - (JAG)No Battlesphere. Gee that is a big surprise.
>Originally due out Christmas 95, this game has become a holly grail
>for owners of the Atari Jaguar. Sadly, 4Play, the developers of
>Battlesphere, apparently are the Derek Smart of the Atari community.
>I'm not sure why I keep looking out for it. I played it at last year's
>Toad fest and it played like a day glow Xwing vs Tie Fighter clone. I
>guess seeing development abandon or the game released would bring
>closure to the whole Jaguar farce which is a thorn in my soul since I
>bought one in 94.
Now come on, Rob, I don't ever recall seeing a firm release date for
BattleSphere. All four members of 4Play have day jobs and work part-time on
this game, which is more a labor of love rather than an attempt to make big
bucks selling to the (comparatively small) Jaguar userbase. 4Play has said
repeatedly that this game WILL be released, and it seems that completion of
development is very near. In the event that you, um, forgot to post this to
rec.games.video.atari, I'm crossposting it there as well. I am sure people
there would love to fill you in on the story.
Sal Manfredonia (hyst...@gti.net)
"Let's be heard!" -- Bob Grant
Eric J. Joiner, Jr.
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:54:12 GMT, nos...@concentric.net (Nosferatu)
wrote:
>Then don't post this shit in the flight-sim newsgroup. Do you think we
>in the flight-sim group give a fuck which console games you think are
>the best? Get a clue.
>--
>Nos
>
> [This Space Left Intentionally Blank]
You tell em Nos.... :)
I was thinking the same thing, about to send a flamer, then saw yrs...
I'll leave well enough alone!
Eric
Gareth Little
In article <68drh8$jo7$1...@skydiver.jaguNET.com>, Rob Merritt
<rob...@jagunet.com> writes
>games, I feel very differently. I feel that this could be the
>beginning of the end of the hobby. I know that this was a record year
>for profits, but I feel this momentum will come crashing down next
>year. The number of bad, buggy and simply unplayable games are
>increasing at an alarming rate. Look at my favorite list, half are
>console games. This hasn't happen in 12 years. Then there is the
>upgrading. I'm throwing $400+ every six months into my computer and
>its still below the ever accelerating curve. I'm finding playing with
>Lego blocks and watching movies are more rewarding than the average
>computer game. However it might be that I'm just growing up. I've been
>computer gaming for 20 of my 28 years on this rock and this might be a
>young person's hobby. Or it might be a phase. I felt similar feelings
>back in 1992. Naaa.. what am I saying??...games are just sucking more.
>On the plus side, some games that were good were REALLY good and
>border of genre defining. .
This was a very strange post, I disagree with you points about the
quality of games decreasing. Casting my mind back as far as I can
(gamewise) I would say things have been pretty consistent. I wouldn't
say games are any better than they were in the days of the atari2600.
People think that because of the great graphics possible today, that
they outclass the old games by miles, no so. I used to own an Amstrad
cpc 464+ and the games available for that were the best I've ever
played, perhaps not graphically accomplished but immensly playable and
involving. Remember that /every/ new game can be traced back to days of
old. I don't care how original or innovative GTA is, but there are old
8bit or worse games out there that bear some passing resemblance. The
driving section from "Rik the Roadie" is pretty similar. I wouldn't even
say that the games were becoming more diverse or covering more areas.
There used to be some seriously strange games that were never attempted
before, Captain Blood for one. I'd say on the whole, games have been
pretty consistent over their entire history. You can't say games are
less/more popular today than they were 10 years ago. Looking through my
vast old comic collection verifys to me (through all the old adverts)
that things are very similar, only on a higher scale.
I don't want to say the crash of 84 or whenever it was, but judging
from the recent discussion about it, it was partly caused by the flood
of terrible games.
___ ___
/ / / / Professor Xavier`s school for gifted youngsters...
/ -/- /---/ / come for a degree...stay for our hot dogs!
---/ / / /___
King Neptune
Don't like all your PCX selections. Crap really.
Golden Eye is the only console system game worthy of being on a best of
gaming list. Otherwise not bad summary.
Quake 2 did quite a bit for me in spite of the redunant factor.
As to your getting to old too enjoy gaming. I just turned 30 and enjoy
Computer PC gaming more and more every day. Games like LB2 and F22 ADF make
me appreciate being alive a such a great point in the history of computer
gaming. I bought a N64 and played Golden for a bit, thought it was cool,
but not as entertaining as Quake2 then took it back to the store, because
all the other games were kiddy games - at least at the time.
So perhaps your problem is paying to much attention to Star Fox and Super
Mario. Just kidding, but I think their are plenty of adult oriented games
to enjoy on the PC.
/NEPTUNE
King Neptune
I couldn't agree more. This console shit doesn't belong here. The guy
comes out with a review of 97 and he hasn't even played a Flight sim game.
What a dick!!!!!!!!!
/NEPTUNE
Eric J. Joiner, Jr. wrote in message
<34aac71a...@nntp.mindspring.com>...
Scott Le Grand
Sal Manfredonia wrote:
>
> I clipped a lot out of Rob's original post, and I'm just going to address
> specific games.
>
> >4. Battlesphere - (JAG)No Battlesphere. Gee that is a big surprise.
> >Originally due out Christmas 95, this game has become a holly grail
> >for owners of the Atari Jaguar. Sadly, 4Play, the developers of
> >Battlesphere, apparently are the Derek Smart of the Atari community.
> >I'm not sure why I keep looking out for it. I played it at last year's
> >Toad fest and it played like a day glow Xwing vs Tie Fighter clone. I
> >guess seeing development abandon or the game released would bring
> >closure to the whole Jaguar farce which is a thorn in my soul since I
> >bought one in 94.
>
> Now come on, Rob, I don't ever recall seeing a firm release date for
> BattleSphere. All four members of 4Play have day jobs and work part-time on
> this game, which is more a labor of love rather than an attempt to make big
> bucks selling to the (comparatively small) Jaguar userbase. 4Play has said
> repeatedly that this game WILL be released, and it seems that completion of
> development is very near. In the event that you, um, forgot to post this to
> rec.games.video.atari, I'm crossposting it there as well. I am sure people
> there would love to fill you in on the story.
Sal, I've given up on any of the flamers having any clue about the
difference between being funded and not funded, and the difficulty of
releasing on a dead platform, but these facts are simply beyond the
limited comprehension of these guys so I've given up on educating and
mostly just shoot back occasionally for the entertainment value. It
all ends soon, 4Play moves on in life, and these guys will be
stuck searching for a new scapegoat. My career does not begin
or end with Jaguar BattleSphere.
Derek Smart, like certain ex-jaguar developers, blew ~3 million
dollars without shipping a thing. Then one day Take 2 got fed
up and shipped his game without his consent and we got an MST3K
special instead of eternal vaporware. You'd think the BS bashers
could learn something from this, but noooooooo...
But at least this brought closure. Nowadays, Derek participates in
Bele/Lokai flame wars over the existence of his Ph.D. and claims to be
working on expansions to BC3K. Time will tell, but I wouldn't buy a
used Battlecruiser from him. Although in some ways, I'm oddly
sympathetic to his plight at times, but then I realize that all he has
to do is stop replying to the numerous flame posts he gets, and it
would end for him...
Basically, this post affirms what Glenn Saunders posted a while back.
Since 4Play is the last living vestige of that which was Atari
(never mind that beyond providing the development system they
pretty much spat in our faces over our networking ideas, the
game itself, technical assistance, and then up and died on us), we
are the only target these poor souls have left to strike at and vent
their frustration. Here we have a case where Rob is essentially
admitting just this.
Jaguar BattleSphere is an irrelevant footnote in the larger
videogame world. We are nobodies, and we will remain such
until we prove ourselves on a more visible platform. There's
plenty of time to do that. Computer skills are blessedly
one of those few things that improve with age. I have heard
some very promising figures lately involving people willing
to do an end-run around the game suits so perhaps the big
asteroid is finally upon them...
Scott Le Grand, Ph.D. (DA#9334765 don't even THINK about questioning it)
Lead Coder of The Mess that is BattleSphere
4Play
(Who thinks Dungeon Keeper is the game engine of the year, and
perhaps of all-time, but god do the game levels and AI suck
I mean it's a shoe-in if you just build a huge duneon, block
it off from the rest of the world, build all your guys up to
level 10, then go postal. Very pretty, but very booorrrrinnggg.
Perhaps if it properly multitasked under Win95 so you could go do
something else while they trained or they had looked at what's
good about RTS games like the time-accelerate button, but nah...)
jon&jamie
Eric J. Joiner, Jr. wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:54:12 GMT, nos...@concentric.net (Nosferatu)
> wrote:
>
> >Then don't post this shit in the flight-sim newsgroup. Do you think we
> >in the flight-sim group give a fuck which console games you think are
> >the best? Get a clue.
> >--
> >Nos
> >
> > [This Space Left Intentionally Blank]
>
> You tell em Nos.... :)
>
> I was thinking the same thing, about to send a flamer, then saw yrs...
> I'll leave well enough alone!
>
> Eric
I was about to ram my foot up both your ass but I noticed your head was
already there. ; )
Scott Le Grand
BELJAN E wrote:
> I see Battlesphere as something that will hopefully gain 4-play the
> recognition they deserve. Hopefully word of it will spread to other
> video game groups and or be seen in video game magazines enough so
> for there to be a demand for the game on another platform such as
> the PC. I still still wait for Battlesphere, and the other games
> coming to the Jag from no name developers or those who care enough
> to even try to release them like Telegames. I am sure that when
> Battlesphere is released, regardless of the fact it will be for Jag
> will create a stir that will be noticed by at least the Jaguar
> community and the magazines who see it.
The funniest thing is that Rob and I otherwise agree on an awful
lot of things about video games. It's just that this rather
large and nasty arthropod crawled up his bunghole a few years
ago and whenever it gets hungry, he seems to get the urge
to say nasty things about BattleSphere. I guess it's beats
picking on Coke machines...
Jaguar BattleSphere will make a lot of jaguar owners happy, make
some scratch their heads over why the game doesn't spoonfeed
them the action like a 2D scroller, and others simply won't
buy the thing. I don't care one bit. BattleSphere is the
kind of game I like to play and I've liked very little of
what's been released in the past year. In fact, I don't
think there has been a >SINGLE< great game in the past year
across the entire industry. Ptooey yech city. Even the
incredible gameplay engine of Dungeon Keeper is marred by lousy
AI and repetitive levels. Perhaps the expansion module has
some interesting levels...
> I like "The mess that is Battlesphere" part, kind of funny. I bet
> it will however end up less messed up that some of the releases
> that have snuck through over the years.
Heh, it already is :-)...
Scott Le Grand
Lead Coder of TMTIBS
4Play
My Top Ten Disappointing Games of 97 (in no particular order)
10. Creatures
9. Galapagos
8. Dungeon Keeper
7. Uprising
6. Colony Wars
5. Shadows of the Empire
4. Tetrisphere
3. Starfleet Academy
2. X-wing versus TIE Fighter
1. Mace (N64)
Hey wait, I hated a lot more than this in 97!
continued:
0. Starfox 64
-1. San Francisco Rush (N64)
-2. Riven
-3. Tomb Raider II
-4. Heavy Gear
-5. Postal
-6. G-Police
-7. Ultima Online
-8. Terracide
-9. Invasion Earth
Favorites:
10. Iron Soldier II (Someday, the industry will figure out that mechs
are big lumbering beasts, not articulated
sportscars, that day is not today)
9. Darklight Conflict (More fun than it has any right to be)
8. Diablo (solid mindless hack and slash)
7. Quake 2/GLQuake (1 player sucks, multiplayer rules)
6. Dungeon Keeper (yep, it made it to both lists and I mean it)
5. Wing Commander Prophesy (The new look we must top)
4. MAME (the classics are still the classics despite billions
of dollars spent by loser suits to rewrite history)
Uh oh, I'm all out of games I enjoyed this year, too bad...
Joshua Kaufman
> Someone who has FIGHTING GAMES ahead of I'76 and FF7? DK #1? Are you stupid,
> or just 11?
Hmmm. I could say the same about you. He's not stupid, he just has
different tastes than you (and admittedly, me). Did you even read what
he said aboiut FF7?? He said that he couldn't see the fasinization with
Japaneese Rpg's. Frankly, I never saw the fasinization of western Rpg's
(Ultima et al). Does that make them stupid? No. Does it make me stupid?
Of course not.
-Joshua
--
AGFF Defender of Terra and the Sailor Senshi...
User of the name Aerith...
Master bad punner...
Composer of 8 opi....
Player of FF series...
Worshiper of Nobuo Uematsu...
Watcher of Sailor Moon....
Proprietor of the ellipse...
***************************
500 + pi or so posts to
Alt.Games.Final-Fantasy
***************************
And now, for some quotes:
"Is the whole world going bonkers or is it just me!?!"
- Serena on Sailor Moon (eps. 54)
(points to breasts) "I clearly have the most talent around here."
- Lita on Sailor Moon (eps. 50)
"Son of a submariner!"
- Kefka to Locke, TERRA, and Edgar in FF3us
"You spoony bard!"
- Tella to Edward in FF2us
"Damn Shemattaness"
-Me
Sean Comfort
I have to say that Total Annihilation is the best game of it's genre that I have played. I
too have been sick to death of these types of games. This one, however, is really good. The
multiplayer over the internet is smooth. I can host five players smoothly on my P150 with
32mb.
You just have to play it to understand.
Sean
Rob Merritt wrote:
> 3. Total Annihilation - (PC)All the game magazines were hyping this
> real time strategy game for months. Yet another dumb C&C clone but
> this time with 3D graphics. Weeeee.
>
>
BELJAN E
In <34AAE96E...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> Scott Le Grand
<leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> writes:
>
>
>Jaguar BattleSphere is an irrelevant footnote in the larger
>videogame world. We are nobodies, and we will remain such
>until we prove ourselves on a more visible platform. There's
>plenty of time to do that. Computer skills are blessedly
>one of those few things that improve with age. I have heard
>some very promising figures lately involving people willing
>to do an end-run around the game suits so perhaps the big
>asteroid is finally upon them...
recognition they deserve. Hopefully word of it will spread to other
video game groups and or be seen in video game magazines enough so for
there to be a demand for the game on another platform such as the PC. I
still still wait for Battlesphere, and the other games coming to the
Jag from no name developers or those who care enough to even try to
release them like Telegames. I am sure that when Battlesphere is
released, regardless of the fact it will be for Jag will create a stir
that will be noticed by at least the Jaguar community and the magazines
who see it.
>it)
>Lead Coder of The Mess that is BattleSphere
>4Play
Kelly McWethy
>
<Pretty much the whole damn thing snipped>
Well, sir....I would have to disagree with you on a few points. I
don't think that you are doing anyone any favors by encouraging people
to release X game as fast as possible. 9 times out of 10 this is the
major problem with an otherwise promising game. I think that you whole
"disappointing no-shows" category just encourages marketing-types to
dump unfinished games on the lot of us. The problem is A) Stop hyping
games before they are ready and B) Don't release unfinished games on
the public. It is unethical, you immmoral bastards...
Dungeon Keeper? Do you get money for this? <more as a joke than an
insult...apologies in advance> It IS an enjoyable game...the best of
'97? Not by a long shot...but that's the real joy of usenet...If I have
Internet access, I am a force to be reckoned with...consumer's revenge
and all...In short, I disagree with many of your selections of various
categories...that's your right and mine...but please, drop the no-shows
category...how many more BC3Ks do we want to drop on the unsuspecting
public by pressuring the producers?
Kelly McWethy
Rob Merritt wrote:
> Espen Sortland <esp...@pc220.janco.sn.no> wrote:
>
> >> 5. Falcon 4.0 - (PC)Falcon 4.0 has been a really long time in the
> >> making. Which explains why the graphics, even with a 3DFX card,
> seem
> >> old. The demos mission and game play is ok, but I hopped for more.
> >>
> >**snipp**
>
> >Hoped for more??? What do you mean more?
>
> Well, I just want it to look better. Longbow2 and JSF looked better.
>
> >Falcon4.0 (demo) is IMHO better than alot of complete(?) games out
> >there...
>
> Like?
>
> >Oh, btw: you forgot to mention Jane's Longbow2, one kickass sim!! :)
>
> I didn't forget about it, I just haven't played if for more than 5
> minutes and a friends house and I'm unable to give an opinion about
> it. plus haveing only a pentium 166 mmx with 3DFX card, it might be be
>
> too slow.
>
> Rob Merritt
> My Might and Magic page:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/homm.html
> My Toy page starring Micronauts and
> LegoBlocks:http://www.jagunet.com/~robertm/micro.html
Got a MACH V with 233MMX and all the trimmings...Longbow 2 is a
REALLY nice game.
Nosferatu
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:04:48 -0600, jon&jamie <buga...@flash.net>
wrote:
> I was about to ram my foot up both your ass but I noticed your head was
>already there. ; )
Another clueless dick-brain attempts to show the world his wit. And
fails miserably.
Robert A. Jung
In article <34AB0E8C...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> Scott Le Grand <leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> writes:
>My Top Ten Disappointing Games of 97 (in no particular order)
>continued:
>
> 0. Starfox 64
>-1. San Francisco Rush (N64)
Now waitasecond, Scott. I agree with most of the rest of your list, but
what was wrong with SAN FRANCISCO RUSH on the N64? I thought it was actually
the second must-get title for the machine, right after WAVERACE. Granted, I
still ain't gonna buy an N64 for it, but I'm surprised it even made the list.
(ObAtari: Um ... bring out BATTLESPHERE already! I need my STAR RAIDERS
fix! B-)
--R.J.
B-)
P.S. And despite what some people may say, I think the soundtrack for SONIC R
is terrific. Not just actual vocals, but *good* vocals, too...
//////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Send whatevers to rj...@netcom.com | If it has pixels, I'm for it.
--------------------------------------+------------------------------Lynx up!
"You weren't chosen because you are the best pilot in the Air Force. You were
chosen because you are the class clown and frankly, you're expendable."
------- Visit Rob on the web! ------ http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/ -------
BELJAN E
In <34AB0E8C...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> Scott Le Grand
<leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> writes:
>Jaguar BattleSphere will make a lot of jaguar owners happy, make
>some scratch their heads over why the game doesn't spoonfeed
>them the action like a 2D scroller, and others simply won't
>buy the thing. I don't care one bit. BattleSphere is the
>kind of game I like to play and I've liked very little of
>what's been released in the past year. In fact, I don't
>think there has been a >SINGLE< great game in the past year
>across the entire industry. Ptooey yech city. Even the
>incredible gameplay engine of Dungeon Keeper is marred by lousy
>AI and repetitive levels. Perhaps the expansion module has
>some interesting levels...
of a few select titles (which I will get to later) there have been FEW
stellar games to grace 1997. Maybe now that its 1998 things will
change. Tons of games based on good old graphics, nothing in the way of
gameplay. A larger number than I expected based on gameplay, with
terrible graphics or terrible AI, which may have been OK a few years
ago, but these days I dont buy it. I have Madden 96 for Super Nintendo,
a few days of playing you figure out the one play or combo that ALWAYS
works (a flaw in the AI per se) which in this case happens to be pitch
to the outside, run it up the sideline. The computer seems to not take
this into consideration, and you end the game winning 130-35. The only
reason the computer scores at all is because they decide to cheat to
make up for it. Now in 1997 I pick up Madden 64. You would expect them
to work around this stuff with their highly touted "liquid AI" engine.
Tout it all they want it is the same darn thing. A combo of 3 or 4
plays always works. The computer then decides to win they will pull off
suspicious touchdowns and interceptions. Still the same darn thing.
This applys to many games this year, not just football. There were only
two or so games that came out IMO good. The AI killed some possible
greats like Mario Kart 64.
>
> 9. Galapagos
> 8. Dungeon Keeper
> 7. Uprising
> 6. Colony Wars
> 5. Shadows of the Empire
some interesting elements, but I expected more.
> 4. Tetrisphere
It was a good idea in 1995 CES, had they released it for the Jaguar
then, I would have been more satisfied. As Nintendo waited, more and
more stuff came out upping the standards. From what I can tell, there
is actually very little different in it now from what would have ended
up on the Jaguar. Controls are similar, only some minor graphical
updates seem to be the changes. I like Tetris so I cannot complain,
however it would have been nice had it been earlier.
> 3. Starfleet Academy
> 2. X-wing versus TIE Fighter
> 1. Mace (N64)
>
>Hey wait, I hated a lot more than this in 97!
were FAR too many released this year for me to pick.
>continued:
>
> 0. Starfox 64
This I disagree with. It is IMO just a dressed up version of the
original, but heck I liked it then and like it now, overly hyped
though.
>-1. San Francisco Rush (N64)
>-2. Riven
Take Myst, change around the puzzles and graphics, then heavily
advertise it. You get success, they call it Riven.
>-3. Tomb Raider II
Its an OK game, but perhaps they should've changed it a bit more. I
liked the original better.
>-4. Heavy Gear
>-5. Postal
>-6. G-Police
>-7. Ultima Online
list if I found it and fewer people knew about it.
>-8. Terracide
>-9. Invasion Earth
>
>
>Favorites:
>
>10. Iron Soldier II (Someday, the industry will figure out that mechs
> are big lumbering beasts, not articulated
> sportscars, that day is not today)
matter this year. I loved the original, and if you take the original
improve the graphics and leave in the gameplay, you get success. This
should have been when Atari was alive, what were they thinking. Good
stuff like this could have saved them. People here and there complain
Iron Soldier series is too slow, IMO, a mech should be slow, as you
say, not a sports car. This was a game that I will likely continue to
have fun with, good replay value because of decent AI (this is the
stuff they should have in Football games, it does not cheat, the enemy
mech cannot move twice as fast as you and just kill you, sure tons of
helicopters attack you, but they dont prevent you from defending
yourself.
> 8. Diablo (solid mindless hack and slash)
> 7. Quake 2/GLQuake (1 player sucks, multiplayer rules)
> 6. Dungeon Keeper (yep, it made it to both lists and I mean it)
> 5. Wing Commander Prophesy (The new look we must top)
> 4. MAME (the classics are still the classics despite billions
> of dollars spent by loser suits to rewrite history)
>
>Uh oh, I'm all out of games I enjoyed this year, too bad...
Good graphics (the kind that should make N64 owners proud), good AI
with no major cheating by the computer. More than just kill kill kill,
you have to do certain things to stay alive and complete the mission.
This was my second favorite game of the year next to Iron Soldier 2.
Kelly McWethy
BELJAN E wrote:
> In <34AAE96E...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> Scott Le Grand
> <leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> writes:
> >
> >
> >Jaguar BattleSphere is an irrelevant footnote in the larger
> >videogame world. We are nobodies, and we will remain such
> >until we prove ourselves on a more visible platform.
<snip>
> I
> still still wait for Battlesphere, and the other games coming to the
> Jag from no name developers or those who care enough to even try to
> release them like Telegames. I am sure that when Battlesphere is
> released, regardless of the fact it will be for Jag will create a stir
>
> that will be noticed by at least the Jaguar community and the
> magazines
> who see it.
> >Scott Le Grand, Ph.D. (DA#9334765 don't even THINK about questioning
> >it)
> >Lead Coder of The Mess that is BattleSphere
> >4Play
> I like "The mess that is Battlesphere" part, kind of funny. I bet it
> will however end up less messed up that some of the releases that have
>
> snuck through over the years.
I don't want to let my cynical nature show through; but, I'll bet
you money that Telegames efforts are more from a result of perceived
profit then they are a result of "care". Don't get me wrong...I am not
slamming them for this...I wish all game developers would show some
concern (economically) for the sorry-ass products they release. I just
wanted to point out that it is HIGHLY likely, that Telegames decision
did not involve the word "care" at all.
Kelvin Lim
>Hmmm. I could say the same about you. He's not stupid, he just has
>different tastes than you (and admittedly, me). Did you even read what
>he said aboiut FF7?? He said that he couldn't see the fasinization with
>Japaneese Rpg's. Frankly, I never saw the fasinization of western Rpg's
>(Ultima et al). Does that make them stupid? No. Does it make me stupid?
>Of course not.
>
>-Joshua
>--
>AGFF Defender of Terra and the Sailor Senshi...
>User of the name Aerith...
>Master bad punner...
>Composer of 8 opi....
*gasp* An AGFFer... That's telling 'em, Joshua. :)
/*======================================================================*/
#include <stdio.h>
void main(void) {
char *s = "\xA\x2C\0#my$~od$iclcikzJgcfdc|foa\"*gcF*dc|foA*gexL", *i;
for(i=s+*(s+1);i-s-1;) printf("%c", *i--^*s); }
/*======================================================================*/
Chris Butcher
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Rob Merritt wrote:
> 3. Total Annihilation - (PC)All the game magazines were hyping this
> real time strategy game for months. Yet another dumb C&C clone but
> this time with 3D graphics. Weeeee.
>
Certainly it's quite similar to C&C - nobody's denying that. I think
that most fans of TA would agree that there are three things that they
like the most - the interface and all the neat things you can do with
it (build 20 fighters and have them patrol the base, assign a group of 6
construction units to build a ring of missile towers, send some fighters
with your carrier group that will automatically shoot down enemies and
return to the carrier for repairs), the number of units (about 70 types
for each side) and the graphics (those explosions are great!).
I think the demo didn't really do TA justice. You might like to try and
find a friend who has it, and try it on their computer for 20 minutes or
so. I did and was hooked when I sent in my spotter planes to provide
targeting info for my artillery, which then took out the enemy's fusion
reactor - BOOM.
> 4. Myth: The Fallen Lords - (PC)This game could have been great but
> the demo levels seemed to be too much puzzle like.
>
I'm curious, Rob. What do you mean by puzzle-like? The first level is
"Annihilate this group of undead before they assemble in formation and
advance on the town" and the second level is "Go here and find out what
happened". I personally don't associate these concepts with
"puzzle-like" ... ?
> 5. Baldur's Gate - (PC)I'm not really love sick over this puppy but it
> looks like a really good AD&D game and it would be nice to be able to
> play it now instead of next year.
>
I thought its release date had been mid-'98 since the project's
inception?
> 8. Half-Life - (PC)This Quake based game looks like it could be the
> GoldenEye of the PC world. However it was delayed and that is almost
> always been the sign of a trouble game in retooling.
>
Not necessarily. Often projects just don't come together fast enough -
all the pieces are there, it's just polish. I personally hope this is
what the team at Valve are doing, a really polished game a la System
Shock is what the industry needs about now. I can't think of many games
lately (last 6 months) that have obviously been well-crafted and then
smoothed for months before release. The Monolith guys working on Riot
seem to have this philosophy though :)
--
Chris Butcher "Bother," said Pooh as his
cbut...@atlas.otago.ac.nz flick knife failed to open.
Xander Pav
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:33:32 -0800, Scott Le Grand
<leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> wrote:
>10. Creatures
Yup. Bought this, thought it ws gonna be fun, and then realized I had
to sit at watch the little weenie make stupid noises. I had to raise
a kid. Sorry. No dice here.
> 5. Shadows of the Empire
But the first level was good. Anyone wil admit that. :-)
> 2. X-wing versus TIE Fighter
It was fun multiplayer. Really fun. Of course, multiplayer alone
does not make a game.
>-6. G-Police
This one I take exception with. While it does have linear scripted
missions (I'm coming from the flight-sim group here, so I'm a dynamic
kinda guy), the graphics were awesome. Especially on AGP Riva 128
cards. Hundreds of cars on screen, dodging and weaving through
traffic, firing missiles? With animated billboards? This game is a
beaut, allthough the missions do lack a bit.
As for your top ten games, being a flight-simmer, and since you
obviously aren't.(Not bad, just different tastes), you left out the
obvious great game of Longbow II.
The game that proves it's not just the graphics, but we'll give you
the graphics anyway. :-)
Scott Le Grand
Xander Pav wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:33:32 -0800, Scott Le Grand
> <leg...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> wrote:
>
> >10. Creatures
>
> Yup. Bought this, thought it ws gonna be fun, and then realized I had
> to sit at watch the little weenie make stupid noises. I had to raise
> a kid. Sorry. No dice here.
It's funny, I got my Ph.D. applying genetic algorithms and artificial
life techniques to a scientific dilemma called the protein folding
problem and I even applied a little bit of this stuff to the AI engine
in BattleSphere. That having been said, I've yet to see anyone make
a really fun game based solely on these techniques.
The problem is that the practitioners of these techniques are mostly
computer scientists rather than videogamers and the games so far
that have utilized these techniques have made this pretty clear.
In the end, these things are just overhyped tools. You really can't
make much of a game out of minmax or A* either, but minmax is at the
heart
of any decent board game-playing algorithm and a fast A* does wonders
for pathfinding in RTS games. I don't think you'll be seeing the
buzzwords:
"killer minmax AI" on any game box soon though
> > 5. Shadows of the Empire
>
> But the first level was good. Anyone wil admit that. :-)
Absolutely! If the rest of the game had been anywhere NEAR as fun
as lassoing the walkers, it would have been a classic, but instead,
it goes straight down the toilet...
> > 2. X-wing versus TIE Fighter
>
> It was fun multiplayer. Really fun. Of course, multiplayer alone
> does not make a game.
What can I say? I'm a veteran of Netrek and of designing my own
multiplayer dogfight game and they messed this one up bad IMO.
It shocked me because X-Wing and TIE Fighter are two of my
favorite games: the absolute best of the Wing Commander genre
mission-based games IMO.
> >-6. G-Police
>
> This one I take exception with. While it does have linear scripted
> missions (I'm coming from the flight-sim group here, so I'm a dynamic
> kinda guy), the graphics were awesome. Especially on AGP Riva 128
> cards. Hundreds of cars on screen, dodging and weaving through
> traffic, firing missiles? With animated billboards? This game is a
> beaut, allthough the missions do lack a bit.
Beautiful graphics just like Colony Wars, but the game within
sucked IMO. This is typical psygnosis for me although I really
dug the Wipeout games.
However, two features stand out in most of 1997's games: great
graphics (for 3DFX cards) and lots of bugs. Texture mapping
is no longer impressive to me simply because with a 3DFX it's
trivial. What impresses me graphically is how one makes use
of said rendering power.
> As for your top ten games, being a flight-simmer, and since you
> obviously aren't.(Not bad, just different tastes), you left out the
> obvious great game of Longbow II.
I should check that one out then...
And heh, disagreements are what make these threads interesting until
some idiot comes in and starts blasting random profanity or mentions
Hitler :-)...
Scott
Rick Gridley
How any best of list could not include SM's GETTYSBURG is beyond me.
Ben & Karen
My $.02 on the best (or my favorite, at least) games of 1997:
Adventure/RPG- Fallout
Action- Outlaws
Strategy- Myth
Simulation- Longbow 2
Of those, I would say that Fallout is probably my favorite game of the
year...
-Ben
King Jeff
Rob Merritt wrote:
> 4. Myth: The Fallen Lords - (PC)This game could have been great but
> the demo levels seemed to be too much puzzle like.
>
Ok, I was with you about the games I'd played until this.
"Defend the town" and "Save the Troops". What's puzzle like about
that?
-jeff
------------------
"Do you hear that noise coming from the engine?"
"Oh, that's because the radio's not turned up high enough."
When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look
like a nail.
Ian Huxley
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:22:39 GMT, rob...@jagunet.com (Rob Merritt)
wrote:
>This is my annual gaming year in review. I normally just do a simply
>list of games I liked and didn't like. This year I wanted to explain a
>bit more. See, a lot of people feel this was a great year for computer
>games, I feel very differently. I feel that this could be the
>beginning of the end of the hobby. I know that this was a record year
>for profits, but I feel this momentum will come crashing down next
>year.
If I want to compare the quality of recent releases (w.r.t flight
sims) then there are 2 main ways that spring to mind :
1) Try drawing up a shortlist of 'landmark' flight sims - that is,
sims that have really added something to the genre - released in
the last decade. Then see how many of them have been recent
titles...... (apologies for somewhat inaccurate dates
eg 1990/1 - Falcon 3 - undulating terrain, campaign
rather than set single missions
1992 - Gunship 2000 - first 'good'
multi-helicoptor sim
1993/4 - Fleet Defender - first 'immersive' jet
carrier ops' sim
- F15 Strike Eagle 3 - beginnings of the
'complex avionics' sim (or was
that also Fleet Defender ?)
<controversial bit>
1997 - Hornet Korea - first sim to bring graphics
up to the levels of 1980s 'real'
flight sims eg Rediffusion
commercial & military sims
Sorry, I failed to mention Flanker - first sim to let you fly
a pink combat aircraft ...... :)
2. 'The degree of civilisation can be judged by looking at a
society's prisoners' * method - take an objective look at the
features in titles that have been slammed this year , and see
if these titles are any more advanced than those condemned in
previous years ?
* attributed to either some dead philospher dude, or too many
beers when watching Con Air
eg iF-22 (1997) v Silent Thunder 2 (1996?)
> The number of bad, buggy and simply unplayable games are
>increasing at an alarming rate.
Sad but true. Falcon 3 had what - 5- patches ? Flying Corps
looks in serious danger of running out of letters for patches......
Then again, back in those days most people had never even heard
of a patch. If the program was bugged, they either got a refund or
vowed never to be from that software house again. The rise of the
patch phenomenon seems to be very closely linked to the rise in
Internet usage, and sadly some software companies are exploiting this
to the detriment of an entire industry. I can only think of 1
individual that stands as an exception to this, and a shining example
of how software projects ought to be run - but I'm not mentioning his
name unless he says I can help beta test Janes F-15..... :)
>Then there is the
>upgrading. I'm throwing $400+ every six months into my computer and
>its still below the ever accelerating curve. I'm finding playing with
>Lego blocks and watching movies are more rewarding than the average
>computer game.
The only answer I can think of for this is to stand back and
deliberately NOT buy a sim unless it offers something over and above
what you already have. Use the money saved to incrementally improve
eg graphics cards etc. Thank you for reading this paragraph of
blatently unworkable drivel. Regular commentary now resumes back in
the real world.... :)
>However it might be that I'm just growing up. I've been
>computer gaming for 20 of my 28 years on this rock and this might be a
>young person's hobby.
What are you saying ? I'm 28 and have NO intentions of applying for
an OAP bus pass just yet.. Next you'll be telling me I soon won't be
able to go on a Club 18-30 holiday ...... :)
Ian "my F16 Fighting Falcon 3DFX patch won't work " Huxley
Mark Rathwell
tari
References: <34AAE96E...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> <68evhd$j...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com> <34AB0E8C...@tesla.mbi.uclaFNORD.edu> <rjungEM...@netcom.com>
Distribution:
: Now waitasecond, Scott. I agree with most of the rest of your list, but
: what was wrong with SAN FRANCISCO RUSH on the N64? I thought it was actually
: the second must-get title for the machine, right after WAVERACE. Granted, I
: still ain't gonna buy an N64 for it, but I'm surprised it even made the list.
Ahh ... we're all different. I actually enjoyed Star Fox 64! Not
for the main game, but for that 4-player shooting contest. I thought it
was a hoot. Was disapointed with the other parts, though.:-)
>> Mark <<
Neil Fradkin
> Then don't post this shit in the flight-sim newsgroup. Do you think we
> in the flight-sim group give a fuck which console games you think are
> the best? Get a clue.
Then get a clue yourself and killfile the thread, or at least remove
the flight-sim group from your followup to list. If you look you can see
this thread is crossposted everywhere.
Neil Fradkin
> 1) Try drawing up a shortlist of 'landmark' flight sims - that is,
> sims that have really added something to the genre - released in
> the last decade. Then see how many of them have been recent
> titles...... (apologies for somewhat inaccurate dates
>
How about the first sim to have a "campaign" and a "random campaign".
Was Red Baron the first with a randomly generated campaign? What was the
first sim to do Korean war combat, CYAC?
The Gorfian Empire
> 4. MAME (the classics are still the classics despite billions
> of dollars spent by loser suits to rewrite history)
Cool, I am glad MAME is getting recognized by truegammers as
yourself. I wrote parts of MAME and generally help the other programmers
figure out all the Baly Midway stuff pre MCR. Play the Bally games such
as Gorf, Wiz of Wor, Space Zap, Robby Roto and Seawolf II as well as the
soon to be added Bally Astrocade emulator. You will see my name in the
credits of those games. More to come......
Steve
> Uh oh, I'm all out of games I enjoyed this year, too bad...
IS2 and Quake II. Can't really think of too many more that where
released this year that I thought were special.
--
Join the TeleGames/Underground list! More Jag games! Show your support!
Sign up at "http://jaguar.holyoak.com."(Thanks to good ol' Wes Powell)
Also, don't forget to support 4 Play (Battle Sphere) and the Underground
games to come 1) Native(Duranik), 2) Gorf 2000 (Krunch(me)) and more!!
rob...@jagunet.com
In article <68ebbt$7dh$1...@usenet76.supernews.com>,
"Sal Manfredonia" <hyst...@gti.net> wrote:
> >Disappointments:
> >5. The Neverhood - (PC)This game could have been good but the puzzles
> >were lame and way too much reading was required for a graphic
> >adventure.
>
> I haven't played this, but a couple of my friends keep recommending it. I'm
> interested in knowing more on why you didn't like it. But while we're on the
> subject of graphic adventures, one that took me by surprise was The Last
> Express by Broderbund. That was really worth it.
The puzzles were either simplistic or copied directly for other recent
games. Plus the reading. Ugh. Walls, and walls of tiny scribbles on clay
had to be read and you could only look at a few lines at a time.
>Now come on, Rob, I don't ever recall seeing a firm release date for
>BattleSphere.
No release date is firm these days. However:
December 1994: Atari Explorer Online(0313) states that BattleSphere has
an release date of Q2/95"Expected dates are dates that have been provided
by the developer."
August 95: "Hopefully,we get the chance to double the graphics power for
an expansion CD tentatively targeted for mid-96" --Scott Le Grand
October 95:" We've set a do or die deadline for Xmas, a hopeful deadline
for around the end of the month and we hope to fall somewhere in
between." --Scott Le Grand
Feburary 97:"Kodogr wrote:> > I beleive that it will be out in 1997.
50 quatloos on the newcomer..." --Scott Le Grand
October 97: "It's not going to be that much longer, really..." --Scott Le
Grand
>All four members of 4Play have day jobs and work part-time on
>this game, which is more a labor of love rather than an attempt to make big
>bucks selling to the (comparatively small) Jaguar userbase. 4Play has said
>repeatedly that this game WILL be released, and it seems that completion of
>development is very near.
Much like Unreal and BC3KAD, Battlesphere has been almost done for the
past two years.
>In the event that you, um, forgot to post this to rec.games.video.atari,
I didn't forget and I have removed it. I have no desire to fight with the
same people all over again that I fought with a year and a half ago. This
is my list, It would have been wrong not to include it, but that it, my
last word on the subject of Battlesphere. Atlest until the 1998 list.
Rob Merritt
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
rob...@jagunet.com
In article <34aabe9a....@news.concentric.net>,
nos...@concentric.net (Nosferatu) wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:22:29 GMT, rob...@jagunet.com (Rob Merritt)
> wrote:
>
> >I didn't forget about it, I just haven't played if for more than 5
> >minutes and a friends house and I'm unable to give an opinion about
> >it. plus haveing only a pentium 166 mmx with 3DFX card, it might be be
> >too slow.
> >
>
My list included a flight sim and therefore it doesn't belong in the
flight sim??? Whoa what logic there. Actually it was tough. EF2000 v2.0
belonged on the list. I imagine if I thought about it more, it should
have taken Xcom 3's place.
>Do you think we in the flight-sim group give a fxxx which console games you
>think are the best? Get a clue.
Thank you for your concern.
rob...@jagunet.com
In article <34ac1a06...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
ar...@ix.netcom.com (Rick Gridley) wrote:
>
> How any best of list could not include SM's GETTYSBURG is beyond me.
Easy, I never played it. I have the demo on my hard drive. I'll get to is
sometime.
rob...@jagunet.com
In article <34ABA16C...@msw0.attnet.or.jp>,
Kelly McWethy <ko...@msw0.attnet.or.jp> wrote:
>
> >
>
> <Pretty much the whole damn thing snipped>
>
> Well, sir....I would have to disagree with you on a few points. I
> don't think that you are doing anyone any favors by encouraging people
> to release X game as fast as possible.
There is an easy solution... don't hype games freakin YEARS in advance.
Don't tell me about this great game and then don't let me have it for
years upon years.
> category...how many more BC3Ks do we want to drop on the unsuspecting
> public by pressuring the producers?
BC3KAD will never been done.
Joonas Linkola
> This is my annual gaming year in review. I normally just do a simply
> list of games I liked and didn't like. This year I wanted to explain a
> bit more. See, a lot of people feel this was a great year for computer
> games, I feel very differently. I feel that this could be the
> beginning of the end of the hobby. I know that this was a record year
> for profits, but I feel this momentum will come crashing down next
> increasing at an alarming rate. Look at my favorite list, half are
True, true. The more computer games become an industry, the more and
more we get these "made with same recipe" games. Look at it, everyone
could name at least 5 clones of games like Doom/Quake and Command &
Conquer. And the bigger the market gets, the bigger money one needs to
make a game that would make even mediocre on the market. All good old
"made in garage" games are gone, everything is big, multimillion games
based on the same base as millions others.
Thank god there is some companies with fresh ideas: Tomb Raider (a game
I hate... I wonder do people buy it for the game itself or Lara?) was a
fresh idea and sold well (and Lara was not the smallest reason), and
games like Worms bring new ideas to market.
I'm not saying that making a game on the same base as thousand other
clones is bad idea IF you got some new ideas and modifications to that
system. Look at Red Alert, hundreds of clones, all those you wouldn't
even think of buying, and then comes Dark Reign and Total Annihilation
(which I haven't played, but I think they are pretty good) that bring
something NEW to the old genre.
> Favorite games
> 2. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II - (PC)Leave it to a Star Wars game to
> teach Quake a thing or two. The best first person shooter I've ever
> played.
Strongly agree. I only played demo (but am planning to buy the whole
game) and I was *really* amazed by it. I am by no means a 3D-shoot'em up
fan, I hate the genre, but Jedi Knight was good because of two things:
yes, other is Star Wars, and other is the design. The demo level was so
well designed, logically made that I was... great! And the graphics and
sounds (I wish there was music in the demo!!) beat Quake 10-0.
As far as I have seen them, Star Wars games are the ONLY good games
based on movie license.
> 8. Curse of Monkey Island - (PC)Aren't we all a little like Guybrush
> at heart. This marks the third game for the good hearted, but
> bumbling, pirate wanna be and while its not the best, its pretty darn
> good. A true gem.
VERY, VERY TRUE!!!! This is definitely my Game of the Year. I had my
precautions of how would Guybrush manage to live in SVGA and how
LucasArts handles the great idea without Ron Gilbert, but they succeeded
100%! A true classic. If you haven't tried it, get yourself a copy
before they are sold out!
More of my thoughts about Curse of Monkey Island can be read on Games
Domain Review (http://www.gamesdomain.co.uk/gdreview/).
--
/----------------------------------------------------------------\
| Joonas Linkola | For e-mail, replace the dot |
| e-mail: linkola.wwnet.fi | between "linkola" and "wwnet" |
| http://wwnet.fi/users/linkola/ | with @ (I'm allergic to spam) |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Windows can't be a virus - viruses are small and work fast" |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
daft.punk
I'm sorry, but it's impossible to review a game while only playing the demo
of it. Most reviewers for Magazines (GamePro, PC Gamer) are expected to
finish the game before they can give an honest opion. So many games have
been changed after demos come out, not to mention the ability to play more
than the 1st level or so.
Take Dark Reign for instance... The demo for this game barely lets you see
the complexity of the further missions, or the units for the game. The extra
controls are useless at first, but become necessary as it progresses. I
purchased this game, and had some regrets at first. But once I started
getting into it, this was one of the best games I had purchased all year.
The same is true for Total Annihiliation. Let's not forget that C&C was a
clone of Warcraft and Quake a clone of Wolfenstein. These are "genres" now,
not clones.
Also regarding FF7... Final Fantasy 7 was outselling Golden Eye 007 for
quite some time, even considering that Golden Eye was released 2 months
before the other. There is truth in numbers my friend.
Never let a demo shake you away from a game. Listen to people who've bought
the game, have beaten it, and know what they are talking about.
Sorry to bother you, but I disagreed so much with what you thought that I
had to speak up.
-daft.punk
______________
"Me lose brain?"
-Homer Simpson, the Simpsons
Glenn Saunders
The mortal Scott Le Grand wrote:
: Jaguar BattleSphere is an irrelevant footnote in the larger
: videogame world. We are nobodies, and we will remain such
I think you have flipped too far in the other direction, Scott.
Battlesphere will be more than a footnote. It already IS more than a
footnote because of all of the work that has gone into it and all of the
anticipation which remains for it, an anticipation which even the
mainstream mags are aware of.
YEARS of hard work eventually does get recognized. If I can get an
article in Wired magazine for the Starpath CD, surely Battlesphere will
get a fair share of maintream press when it ships. Regardless of sales
figures, there are some writers for these mags that like to show some
recognition for our hard work.
Won't that mean more to you than the response on usenet??
Glenn Saunders
The mortal Scott Le Grand wrote:
: in BattleSphere. That having been said, I've yet to see anyone make
: a really fun game based solely on these techniques.
You don't know how much I'd really like to see a modern game that
takes advantage of today's CPU speed and memory for advanced AI instead of
just spooling data off a CD and generating polygons. I'm talking about
both action games and especially RPGs.
It seems like networking games are popular because of the lack of
AI--fighting other real people is more challenging than the dumb computer
opponents. Considering the power of today's machines, this is
inexcusable.
If I had a PC at home I'd be trying out Blade Runner, which has a highly
touted AI and randomization system--"Adventure" for the 90s.
: is no longer impressive to me simply because with a 3DFX it's
: trivial. What impresses me graphically is how one makes use
: of said rendering power.
The next step up after this is realtime lighting effects, I suppose.
Scott Le Grand
Glenn Saunders wrote:
>
> The mortal Scott Le Grand wrote:
> : problem and I even applied a little bit of this stuff to the AI engine
> : in BattleSphere. That having been said, I've yet to see anyone make
> : a really fun game based solely on these techniques.
>
> You don't know how much I'd really like to see a modern game that
> takes advantage of today's CPU speed and memory for advanced AI instead of
> just spooling data off a CD and generating polygons. I'm talking about
> both action games and especially RPGs.
You're mostly not going to see this because there's almost no one
in the industry that understands this stuff enough to apply it in
any useful fashion. Even the work of respected figures like
Craig Reynolds would be a joke in a video game because his
evolutionary algorithms have trouble implementing simple obstacle
avoidance algorithms let alone an advanced adversary. The morph
learning chess system can be beaten by a much more simple and
efficient minmax. And just look at real-time strategy games and their
AWFUL pathfinding algorithms. If game coders can't solve this
relatively
simple (though admittedly subtle in real-time) problem, how can we
expect
them to do the cool stuff?
Now I don't want to bag on the coders too much. I think the real
issue is that there needs to be true R&D applied to videogame
algorithms. There is a goldmine of techniques in machine learning,
pattern recognition, and optimization just begging to be put into
video games. But... Most of it is garbage. Most scientific papers
tend to oversell their algorithms and apply them to toy problems of
no practical use to anyone beyond the author's tenure comittee. And
a disturbing amount of the data is just plain faked (I know this
from personal experience alas). The bottom line is that if you want to
apply this stuff, you desperately need to have the time to fail. If
you have to get it right on the first try, it is insanity to try and
develop advanced AI because there is just too much manure to wade
through to find the gold. All you'll get is Artificial Stupidity and
a giant sucking sound responsible for the disappearance of your
development budget.
> It seems like networking games are popular because of the lack of
> AI--fighting other real people is more challenging than the dumb computer
> opponents. Considering the power of today's machines, this is
> inexcusable.
Actually, networked games weren't always this way. The deathmatch
paradigm is a result of Doom and the game suits seeking only to
imitate that which succeeded before. Long before Doom, games like
Bolo, Netrek, and the Muds were far more fun than deathmatching
for me. Hell, deathmatched network games date back to the 1960s
(unless of course you're talking to a game suit at which point the
video game was invented in 1993 by John Carmack) and we seem to finally
be moving on thanks to real-time strategy games and Quake mods
like capture the flag.
> If I had a PC at home I'd be trying out Blade Runner, which has a highly
> touted AI and randomization system--"Adventure" for the 90s.
>
> : is no longer impressive to me simply because with a 3DFX it's
> : trivial. What impresses me graphically is how one makes use
> : of said rendering power.
>
> The next step up after this is realtime lighting effects, I suppose.
Quake 2 has realtime lighting (not ray tracing), but very nice
lighting nonetheless. It was a bit of a Disneyland ride rather than a
game
for me though: go from point A to point B, kill monsters on way,
go to point C, lather, rinse, repeat with some of the worst AI
since Wolf3D. I'd like to see more procedural texturing (like the
smoke and water in Titanic) as water really needs help in
video games right now. I'd like to see new graphics architectures
(I love the Pixelplanes concept as it could allow some really
freaky stuff, but I doubt game developers could really handle a
programmable pixel processor nor would they bother and slapping
a standard API on top of one of these puppies destroys all of
its advantages). I'd like to see better detail management: one
of Uprising's many problems was that the horizon was just too
damned short. Even London isn't as foggy as most of the 3D
games I've played this year. It's not like these techniques
are nonexistent, they just require a little digging.
But once again, if getting a game out on time is the bottom
line, you're not going to see much of this any time soon until
someone does it first (perhaps Carmack in Trinity because he's
one of the few figures in the industry without a keeper) and then
there will be a sudden mad scramble to imitate.
Scott Le Grand
Lead Coder
4Play
The Gorfian Empire
Scott Le Grand wrote:
> Basically, this post affirms what Glenn Saunders posted a while back.
> Since 4Play is the last living vestige of that which was Atari
Hey hey!! Don't count out us useless, irrelevant developers in
the underground. ;)
Steve
Scott Le Grand
The Gorfian Empire wrote:
>
> Scott Le Grand wrote:
>
> > Basically, this post affirms what Glenn Saunders posted a while back.
> > Since 4Play is the last living vestige of that which was Atari
>
> Hey hey!! Don't count out us useless, irrelevant developers in
> the underground. ;)
How true. Just think of the fun you'll inherit once we've released
BattleSphere!
Scott
Michael Buck
Joonas Linkola (lin...@NO.SPAM.wwnet.fi) wrote:
: Thank god there is some companies with fresh ideas: Tomb Raider (a game
: I hate... I wonder do people buy it for the game itself or Lara?)
Why do you hate Tomb Raider? I just recently bought it, and am enjoying
it. Personally, I find the huge breasts, and skimpy clothing very silly,
and a tad pathetic, but otherwise the game is a lot of fun. What about
it do you dislike?
Michael Buck
mb...@ix.netcom.com
The Gorfian Empire
You mean already have inherited. ;) You've seen the share of
abuse I gotten so far. All I did at first is tell everyone it was for
server owners at first, FOR FUCKING FREE no less!!! I simply said it
would probably cost about $60 bucks to get a handful of carts of CD's
made. I almost kinda feel cheated not receiving as much abuse as 4Play.
;)
However, I am sure the abuse to the underground will pick up once you
guys have released BS(tm).
Here's to drinking your own urine....
Steve "The abused gorfian Empire" Scavone
Scott Dowdle
In rec.games.video.atari, the mortal Scott Le Grand wrote:
>since Wolf3D. I'd like to see more procedural texturing (like the
>smoke and water in Titanic) as water really needs help in
>video games right now.
Yeah, the special effects in Titanic were extremely life like, eh? So,
speaking of that, have you read the article that the folks at Digital
Domain wrote for February issue of LINUX JOURNAL magazine (cover story)?
I don't think the issue has hit the newstands yet but the electronic
version is available online:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/current/2494.html
Pretty interesting article... what with them using 105 Dec Alpha machines
in a network clustering environment running Linux as the computational
slave to produce the high quality graphics for Titanic in a reported two
months time. Pretty amazing. I really like the picture in the article
showing three walls of Dec Alpha tower cases hooked up to the monitor and
keyboard in the middle of the room. I'd love to grab that picture from
the article, put it on my homepage and decare that it's my home system,
but only a moron would believe me. :) hahahaaa Maybe someday.
I know that that my discussion strays from the beautiful one you guys were
having on the lackluster of contemporary AI designs relating to gaming,
but it's just another example of how the fringe uses fringe solutions to
change things. I mean, who would have guess a well known digital production
company would have engineered a Linux based environment for the most
advanced digital production work they have done to date?... when they were
really crunched for time and the stakes were the highest they have ever
been? I applaud them... and I'll applaud you when I get my copy of
Battlesphere. :)
So, any idea when ICD is going to ship those darn CatBoxes? Not to flame
and I know you aren't like their spokes person, but since you are tied
to them with Battlesphere I'd imagine you might want to be aware of the
fact that there are quite a few of us out here in Atari Land that paid for
Cat Boxes months ago... and we are still waiting for them. Since I'm not
the agressive type, I'll just continue to trust ICD, since they've had my
money for quite a while now, and hope that it ships someday.
TYL, Scott Dowdle
homepage: http://www.icstech.com/~dowdle
email: dow...@icstech.com
Eric
Just a quick question Ben.
Why do you crosspost to all these groups, instead of the one relavant to
your topic?
Just curious,
E-Man
Eric
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, daft.punk wrote:
> I'm sorry, but it's impossible to review a game while only playing the demo
> of it. Most reviewers for Magazines (GamePro, PC Gamer) are expected to
> finish the game before they can give an honest opion. So many games have
> been changed after demos come out, not to mention the ability to play more
> than the 1st level or so.
Just a quick question for you daft.punk:
Why do you crosspost to so many groups, instead of the one relavant to