POLL: The most overrated games of all time
Taren Durbank
I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
overrated.
-------------------------------------------------
1. Metal Gear Solid, aka "Best game on Playstation"
Perks:
* The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
Flaws:
* Crappy aiming system
* Shoddy control, and annoyingly stick walls
* RADAR turns off in crawl mode and evasion mode (WTF?)
* Limited 3rd person view (seriously obscures your vision)
* Inconsistent fire modes (button presses) for guns
* Some missions abrubtly end (reset) when you're spotted (WTF? A magical
time and space reversal?)
* Plot is slow, boring, long-winded, and interruptive to gameplay
(minute-long cut-scenes can't be skipped, which sucks as it is b/c they're
so bad, but is even worse if you just saw the scene, then died, and are then
punished by having to watch some 3-minute cut-scene yet again before you get
to replay the level)
* The dialogue is childish and cliche. Only someone with the mindset of a
pre-teenager could take the "romance" elements seriously.
* The bonus "viewing" room (available from main menu) in the expansion pack:
an empty room with some girl sitting in the centre, fully clothed, sitting
at a computer. You are given a camera and get to walk around her and take
pictures for "later viewing." That is so f'ing nerdy.
*** [The doosy:] The final enemy is called "Big Boss." Yes really, that's
his name. Now come on, honestly, who do they think they're kidding...
--------------------------------------------------
2. Final Fantasy 8
Perks:
* Triple-A grade FMVs
* Kick ass character design (thumbs up Nomura)
Flaws:
* B grade gameplay
* Dodgy 4-way directional movement (sometimes S is SW or W, other times it
is E or SE, but it is rarely S. The same goes for E, W, and N. WTF? And the
PSOne has an analogue stick FFS!)
* Slow menu transitions
* Childish banter
* Cocky, ignorant, pompous, unlikeable dooshbag for a protagonist (for the
first 3/4 of the game anyway)
* At some points, random wandering with no clear objectives
* Invisible enemy interrupts (that reeks of prehistoric RPG style)
* GF and magic summons are cool the first few times, but soon the 30 second
wait becomes very tedious, leaving the player sitting twidling their thumbs
for about 5 minutes per battle after attack choices have been made (and WTF
it took them two more games [FFX] to implement a fast-summons option?
Geezus)
-------------------------------------------------
3. Die by the Sword
Perks:
* The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
Flaws:
* VSIM sucks and is way overrated (no wonder why I haven't seen it used in
another game since)
* Way too hard even on easy (and I'm not kidding)
---------------------------------------------------
4. Max Payne
Perks:
* Painkillers instead of HP potions
* Bullet-time
* Some cool dream sequences and drugged scenes, e.g. the long, long hallway
visual trickery; the red blood trails in black space; the repeating room
exit while on drugs.
Flaws:
* No 1st person view option
* Boring, cliche plot that interrupts gameplay at annoying times (however,
if you've only played videogames your whole life and have never experienced
a decent movie plot or read a good book, then you'll probably like it)
* Max's dark, monotone voice despite him laughing and smiling in some scenes
(WTF? did the voice actors even get to look at the art they were supposed to
be voicing over?)
P.S. Feel free to violently protest my opinions.
SpaceRook
<tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>2. Final Fantasy 8
This game wasn't that highly regarded to begin with.
My addition would be....HALF LIFE! I thought it was good, but it was
not the transcendental experience everyone makes it out to be. For a
deep, story-oriented FPS, I think Jedi Knight is still king.
MadNetter
"Taren Durbank" <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5dqrk$2pb$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
> Just a pet peeve of mine, thought it would be a bit of fun.
> --------------------------------------------------
> 2. Final Fantasy 8
> Flaws:
> * B grade gameplay
I disagree about the gameplay. Within the confines of the Final Fantasy
genre, I believe that FF8 took the biggest risks and has the most in-depth
system of all of the FF games, with the exception of "Final Fantasy
Tactics". It's a flawed masterpiece - the "Apocalypse Now" of the FF series.
> * Dodgy 4-way directional movement (sometimes S is SW or W, other times it
> is E or SE, but it is rarely S. The same goes for E, W, and N. WTF? And
the
> PSOne has an analogue stick FFS!)
I personally never had a problem with this, so I have no comment. (Well,
except that one.)
> * Cocky, ignorant, pompous, unlikeable dooshbag for a protagonist (for the
> first 3/4 of the game anyway)
First of all, it's "douchebag". Secondly: like many elements of the game,
FF8 is not what it appears at first glance. I can't remember who it was, but
somebody on Usenet once described the gameplay as mirroring the storyline:
when you start the game, it seems to be all about summoning, but slowly
another, deeper game of junctioning magic reveals itself. In the same way,
many of the characters reveal themselves, and their intentions, as much
different than what you first assumed. Some people like this kind of thing,
and some don't, but I thought it was some excellent story-telling.
> * At some points, random wandering with no clear objectives
Once again, never had a problem. Mind you, I've trained myself to keep a
pen-and-paper handy for RPG's.
> * Invisible enemy interrupts (that reeks of prehistoric RPG style)
Technically, this is a problem with the series, rather than FF8 alone.
> * GF and magic summons are cool the first few times, but soon the 30
second
> wait becomes very tedious, leaving the player sitting twidling their
thumbs
> for about 5 minutes per battle after attack choices have been made (and
WTF
> it took them two more games [FFX] to implement a fast-summons option?
> Geezus)
Too true. Although I believe, in a subtle way, the reuse of the animations
forces the player into looking into different methods of winning battles
instead of simply summoning the enemy to death. To be fair, I barely used
any summons at all for the last half of the game.
While all of these are valid points, I believe that the sum of the parts of
FF8 is greater than the whole. Very few storylines of any game - console, PC
or otherwise - have grabbed me in the way that FF8 did. Damn, you know, I
feel like playing through it again...
Kevin "Plus, I Liked His Jacket" Cogliano
Daywanderer
news:a5dqrk$2pb$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
> 1. Metal Gear Solid, aka "Best game on Playstation"
>
> Perks:
> * The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
>
> Flaws:
> * Crappy aiming system
> * Shoddy control, and annoyingly stick walls
> * RADAR turns off in crawl mode and evasion mode (WTF?)
> * Limited 3rd person view (seriously obscures your vision)
> * Inconsistent fire modes (button presses) for guns
> * Some missions abrubtly end (reset) when you're spotted (WTF? A magical
> time and space reversal?)
Never noticed this - something wrong with your copy?
> * Plot is slow, boring, long-winded, and interruptive to gameplay
> (minute-long cut-scenes can't be skipped, which sucks as it is b/c they're
> so bad, but is even worse if you just saw the scene, then died, and are
then
> punished by having to watch some 3-minute cut-scene yet again before you
get
> to replay the level)
Story's the best part of the game :)
> * The dialogue is childish and cliche. Only someone with the mindset of a
> pre-teenager could take the "romance" elements seriously.
Suddenly it becomes clear why I enjoy typical Hollywood action flicks with
Steven Segal so much..
> * The bonus "viewing" room (available from main menu) in the expansion
pack:
> an empty room with some girl sitting in the centre, fully clothed, sitting
> at a computer. You are given a camera and get to walk around her and take
> pictures for "later viewing." That is so f'ing nerdy.
Yep, that one was crap, I'll give ya that. In fact, the only things I liked
about Integral/VR Missions/Special Missions (different name for each part of
the world, geez) was the Mystery and Ninja modes.
> *** [The doosy:] The final enemy is called "Big Boss." Yes really, that's
> his name. Now come on, honestly, who do they think they're kidding...
The final boss is called Liquid Snake. Big Boss is the guy whose genes were
used to create the two Snakes.
Come on, the Metal Gear games are good. Cliché, yes. Cheesy names (Solid
Snake, Liquid Snake, Big Boss, Grey Fox, Revolver Ocelot, et al), yes.
Still, it's pulled off quite well IMHO - and MGS is still my favourite game
ever.
<Snipped FF Stuff>
<Snipped DbtS Stuff>
(both were good for a little while, but DbtS got boring and FF was too long
for my liking, despite the excellent story/characters/etc)
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 4. Max Payne
>
> Perks:
> * Painkillers instead of HP potions
> * Bullet-time
> * Some cool dream sequences and drugged scenes, e.g. the long, long
hallway
> visual trickery; the red blood trails in black space; the repeating room
> exit while on drugs.
>
> Flaws:
> * No 1st person view option
Tomb Raider (among others) doesn't have this either, thus the genre name
"Third Person Shooter" :)
> * Boring, cliche plot that interrupts gameplay at annoying times (however,
> if you've only played videogames your whole life and have never
experienced
> a decent movie plot or read a good book, then you'll probably like it)
> * Max's dark, monotone voice despite him laughing and smiling in some
scenes
> (WTF? did the voice actors even get to look at the art they were supposed
to
> be voicing over?)
I was always under the impression that the plot was supposed to be
unoriginal (didn't think it was boring though) and cliché. Come on, the
cliché (both in plot and Max's voice/lines) is one of the biggest gimmicks
in the game, just like Bullet-Time (which was also integral to gameplay -
fortunately).
> P.S. Feel free to violently protest my opinions.
Done, but in a nice way :)
Daywanderer
--
Field Reporter - www.GhostRecon.net | www.AGR-S.com
Staff Writer - www.3DActionPlanet.com
Daywa...@3DActionPlanet.com
ICQ UIN: 46676767
"Fortune sides with he who dares."
Brian McGroarty
> 2. Final Fantasy 8
>
> Flaws:
> * Childish banter
> * Cocky, ignorant, pompous, unlikeable dooshbag for a protagonist
> (for the first 3/4 of the game anyway)
When one comment follows the other, you see why one might have trouble
taking you seriously, don't you? :)
MadNetter
>
> I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
> overrated.
Hmmmm.... over-rated games, eh?
1) Diablo I & II.
Not so much over-rated as irritating. The games themselves are really not my
cuppa tea, but they deliver what they promise. My problem was that their
insane success filtered down into the RPG industry by everybody trying to
force a Diablo-type combat into their games, regardless if it made any sense
or not. (I'm looking at YOU, Arcanum!)
2) Everquest.
A MUD with pretty pictures, this has as much to do with real computer
role-playing as American football has to with World War II. A pointless,
endless camp-fest, it proved to be wildly popular with people who apparently
have a lot more patience than I do.
3) Baldur's Gate.
The second one improved matters somewhat, but I just couldn't get into the
first one to save my life. The combat system is annoying in the extreme, the
AD&D system has never been a favourite of mine, and the game was pretty
instead of interesting. I'll take beaten-with-an-ugly-stick Fallout or
Arcanum over the Baldur's Gate series anytime.
4) Quake III.
With the exception of pointless Satanic imagery, is there anything in this
game that wasn't done better in Unreal Tournament?
5) The Sims.
Another "game" that I never understood. Why would I want to play a
simulation of my waking life? Cute for about five minutes, once I realized
that my Sims were never going to get into drunken screaming arguments on the
front lawn in their underwear, I kinda lost interest. Proof that Philip K.
Dick was the most prescient science-fiction writer in history.
Kevin "Planescape: Torment Is The Most UNDER-Rated" Cogliano
James Garvin
I think the problem is (looking back at the orginal post) is the poster
doesn't like console games... (MGS, FF8, and Max Payne (although it is
on the PC we can all agree that the roots for Max are console)
--
James Garvin
bo...@nmt.edu
-----BEGIN BOOT'S GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/B/H !d s+:+@ a-@ C++>++++ UL++ P+ L++>++++ E++ W--@ N++ o+ K---
w++
O- M-- V-- PS+ PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+(++) 5-- X++ R++>$ tv b+ DI+++ D++
G e+>+++ h--- r+++ y+++ A09 H+++>* P+++
------END BOOT'S GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Taren Durbank
> not the transcendental experience everyone makes it out to be. For a
> deep, story-oriented FPS, I think Jedi Knight is still king.
Yes! I was thinking about adding Half-Life, but then I thought nah because
it was a pretty good game overall. Still, I don't know why people rave about
it so much and say it was so *revolutionary* and *original*. FFS! What the
hell, i'll do a comparison of *originality* and *plot* for old-times sake:
Half-Life
1. Aliens threaten humanity: kill 'em all
2. Hold on, there are some facist humans that also need punishing: kill 'em
aswell
3. Hero starts kickin' sh*t around on earth, then heads off to the alien
homeworld for some more sh*tkickin'
Doom/Doom 2
1. Aliens threaten humanity: kill 'em all (or demons, close enough)
2. Hold on, there are some facist humans that also need punishing: kill 'em
aswell
3. Hero starts kickin' sh*t around on earth, then heads off to the alien
homeworld for some more sh*tkickin'
On revolutionary gameplay, it added a few--and only a few--nice features.
Namely, the Use key, flashlight, the always-fun vent crawling,
primary/secondary firing on guns, and live spoken dialogue.
Do I think HL is *way* overrated? Probably not, maybe just *somewhat*
overrated. It is a pretty good game, and more deserving of praise than the
others I mentioned.
Tim O
<tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Just a pet peeve of mine, thought it would be a bit of fun.
>
>I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
>overrated.
[snip]
1 Diablo
Perks:
Well, you've been wanting a new USB mouse and a carpal tunnel
operation...
Flaws:
*Point and click, click, click, click, click your mouse to death
through 500 randomly generated though apparently identical dungeons.
*Meet the largest concentrated group of assholes on the internet by
playing online (this might actually go in the Perks section if you're
one of this fine group).
StarEye
> on the PC we can all agree that the roots for Max are console)
>
Actually, Max Payne is a PC-game converted to consoles. Not vice-versa.
StarEye
James Garvin
Yes...but the roots (the over all feeling of the game) is VERY
console...But yes it came out for the PC first...still doesn't make it
non-consoley
James Garvin
>
> On revolutionary gameplay, it added a few--and only a few--nice features.
> Namely, the Use key, flashlight, the always-fun vent crawling,
> primary/secondary firing on guns, and live spoken dialogue.
IRRC in JK you have a flashlight and primary/secondary firing...
JK2 is gonna ROCK!! Go LEC!
Eric VanHeest
> Actually, Max Payne is a PC-game converted to consoles. Not vice-versa.
I think he meant that Max Payne played a lot like a console game. I'm
not sure if I agree (quicksave and mouse control are a lot of what
"makes" PC games, to me at least).
Brian
"Taren Durbank" <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5dqrk$2pb$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
Peter B. Steiger
>Do I think HL is *way* overrated? Probably not, maybe just *somewhat*
>overrated. It is a pretty good game, and more deserving of praise than the
>others I mentioned.
I think what distinguishes HL from its FPS ancestors is the extensive
plot depth. I have never cared for FPS's because I like to think my
entertainment needs are a little more civilized than "run around
shooting everything in sight and watching the lifelike blood spurting
around on the screen". I almost threw out HL when I got it for
Christmas, but two things stopped me - (a) I figured my friend
would see it if I put it on eBay right away, and (2) I did some
research on the web and found out there's more to the game than
just shoot-em-up. I even allowed my kidlings, who are NEVER
allowed to play violent games or watch violent movies, to participate
in the various puzzle solving scenes.
Does Doom have any friendly NPCs, or are you expected to kill
anything that moves? I liked the conversations with the NPCs,
and watching the barneys and scientists rag on each other.
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
----
If you reply by email, send it to pbs at com dot
canada (or vice-versa). All advertisements will be
returned to your postmaster, eh!
StarEye
"James Garvin" <bo...@nmt.edu> skrev i melding
news:3C7A8BAA...@nmt.edu...
> StarEye wrote:
> >
> > (although it is
> > > on the PC we can all agree that the roots for Max are console)
> > >
> >
> > Actually, Max Payne is a PC-game converted to consoles. Not vice-versa.
>
> Yes...but the roots (the over all feeling of the game) is VERY
> console...But yes it came out for the PC first...still doesn't make it
> non-consoley
>
> --
PC. At least most seems to agree about that. When I played the game on my
PS2, I missed the possibility to use a mouse and a keyboard. Even if I had
that, it didn't support it. Strange...
StarEye
Steven R. Aeyough
<tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>3. Die by the Sword
>
>Perks:
>* The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
>
>Flaws:
>* VSIM sucks and is way overrated (no wonder why I haven't seen it used in
>another game since)
>* Way too hard even on easy (and I'm not kidding)
I don't recall Die by the Sword being rated all that highly--unless
you mean any review above 0 was too high. VSIM was an attrocious
control scheme, though. Swish the mouse left to right and the guy
lifts his sword straight up. Swish top-right to bottom-left and he
kinda jerks the around sword a little in the air. WTF? The little
free-for-all game where you can control the creatures (like the ogre!)
was pretty fun, though.
>---------------------------------------------------
>4. Max Payne
>
>Flaws:
>* Max's dark, monotone voice despite him laughing and smiling in some scenes
>(WTF? did the voice actors even get to look at the art they were supposed to
>be voicing over?)
I didn't get this either. Although, the incongruity did lend a
confused, creepy mood to the narrative, so maybe it was intentional.
Knight37
> Halflife:
> On revolutionary gameplay, it added a few--and only a few--nice
> features. Namely, the Use key, flashlight, the always-fun vent
> crawling, primary/secondary firing on guns, and live spoken dialogue.
Scripted events in the game engine.
Neigh seamless transition from area to area, no more long "loading" waits.
Decent enemy AI (something severely lacking in the single-player FPS arena).
Allies that would help you some. Kinda.
Decent story compared to previous FPS games.
Sure, it gets a lot of attention, but IMHO, it's mostly deserved.
--
Knight37
I will lie for you! Beg and steal for you!
I will crawl on hands and knees until you see...
you're just like me.
-- Garbage, "No. 1 Crush"
Joe62
is "less of the same" gameplay and more really crappy story.
Daywanderer
news:t9xe8.218$TU3....@news4.ulv.nextra.no...
> Ok. I see, but I don't agree. It plays like a FPS and FPS's are best on a
> PC. At least most seems to agree about that. When I played the game on my
> PS2, I missed the possibility to use a mouse and a keyboard. Even if I had
> that, it didn't support it. Strange...
Genre-wise, Max Payne isn't an FPS, but a TPS (Third-Person Shooter). TPS
games are, IMO, best on consoles - and more common.
Knight37
> Does Doom have any friendly NPCs, or are you expected to kill
> anything that moves? I liked the conversations with the NPCs,
> and watching the barneys and scientists rag on each other.
Nope. Kill everything that moves. If it gets up, kill it again.
--
Knight37
I don't want to remember nothing. Nothing. You understand? And I want to be
rich. You know, someone important, like an actor.
-- Cypher, "The Matrix"
Eero Vainionpää
Max payne was developed for four years... since death rally was published by
apogee the went to US to apogee to have a hollyday and to party. and at that
point they presented their new idea Max Payne to apogee. and the said
okay... But but... Max payne was only going to be to PC. to PS2 rockstar
converted it... to xbox remedy it self... they didn't even have the x-box
devkit before PC version was in gold...
"James Garvin" <bo...@nmt.edu> wrote in message
news:3C7A8BAA...@nmt.edu...
James Garvin
>
> Ok this one i know for sure.
>
> Max payne was developed for four years... since death rally was published by
> apogee the went to US to apogee to have a hollyday and to party. and at that
> point they presented their new idea Max Payne to apogee. and the said
> okay... But but... Max payne was only going to be to PC. to PS2 rockstar
> converted it... to xbox remedy it self... they didn't even have the x-box
> devkit before PC version was in gold...
UUUUUUUURRRRRGGGGG!!! *goes into cyber rage and eats monitor* Not the
point...It was a console like game (it played like a console game..it
looked like a console game...it smelled like a console game...etc...etc)
Invader Portia_EH
news:3c7a8ddf$0$87682$45be...@newscene.com...
> Diablo.
>
[snip]
Stop me if I'm wrong here ... Did you just include Taren's /entire/ post in
your USENET post just to say one word?
I pity the poor UK blokes that have to pay per the bits transferred.
--
/ ========
"Sometimes you've just got to lift up the horse's tail
and stare the problem right in the face." -Lloyd Bingham
======== /
-EH (remove "no2spam~" for reply address)
Ben Sisson
whispered:
>
>I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
>overrated.
>
1. Black and White: tedious annoying "gameplay". It was hyped on its
engine and its AI (which I also found unbelievably overrated). Worse
PC game mistake I ever made, and worst value for the dollar period.
2. Dark Age of Camelot: a shallow, mindless levelfest with a tenth the
personality of EQ and a hundredth the entertainment value. Unbalanced,
underdeveloped, and unfinished, it got by because Mythic cared more
about good PR than good gameplay and so pulled the wool over people's
eyes for about two months before the wheels fell off the bandwagon and
almost everyone realized how pointless playing was.
3. Diablo 2: while I liked Gauntlet I expect more than identical
gameplay with the added perk of a small amount of character building,
especially considering the original Gauntlet took about ten times or
even twenty times longer to finish and came out like fifteen years
ago. Once you've played the first act you've seen the entire game. No
story, no interaction beyond kill kill kill... its a craptacular RPG
and as an action game it compares poorly to pretty much every fps
because of its pointless multiplayer. A great game for those with the
attention span of a goldfish.
4. SMAC: Dressed up Civ 2 with less logic and more technobabble. It
was milking the franchise and nothing more.
5. Madden football games. All of them. It makes me wonder what Madden
the box refers to since he's obviously never seen a football game
before. When it gets to some realistic stats AND full career mode (a
la FCF) call me.
--
Ben Sisson
"Asking the ISU to investigate itself is like asking Enron to do an
internal audit."
- Brian Williams on the Salt Lake Screwjob in figure skating
Clarence Nicholas
"Daywanderer" <daywa...@3dactionplanet.com> wrote in message
news:a5ds3p$6htia$1...@ID-42471.news.dfncis.de...
> I was always under the impression that the plot was supposed to be
> unoriginal (didn't think it was boring though) and cliché. Come on, the
> cliché (both in plot and Max's voice/lines) is one of the biggest gimmicks
> in the game, just like Bullet-Time (which was also integral to gameplay -
> fortunately).
Finally someone who agrees! Max Payne isn't my favourite game by any means,
but the cliché stuff was, I am convinced, intentional. At one point in the
game, Max utters the key line:
"Everything is a cliché until it happens to you."
The Naked Avenger
Kahlil
"Steven R. Aeyough" <y...@nomaybe.com> wrote in message
news:ff7l7usvr1cnhna3k...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:05:19 +1000, "Taren Durbank"
> <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >3. Die by the Sword
> >
> >Perks:
> >* The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
> >
> >Flaws:
> >* VSIM sucks and is way overrated (no wonder why I haven't seen it used
in
> >another game since)
> >* Way too hard even on easy (and I'm not kidding)
>
> I don't recall Die by the Sword being rated all that highly--unless
> you mean any review above 0 was too high. VSIM was an attrocious
> control scheme, though. Swish the mouse left to right and the guy
> lifts his sword straight up. Swish top-right to bottom-left and he
> kinda jerks the around sword a little in the air. WTF? The little
> free-for-all game where you can control the creatures (like the ogre!)
> was pretty fun, though.
>
Did you ever try playing with an analog joystick? I got the feeling that
that was the way you were meant to play DBTS. Swing the joystick from left
to right and your character would swing his sword from left to right at the
same speed. It felt almost as if you were actually holding a real sword in
your hand (not that I've ever held a real sword). If they ever created a
version of DBTS that could work at decent speed in multiplayer over the
internet, I'd definitely preorder it.
Kahlil
"Clarence Nicholas" <clarence...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c7acffd$0$237$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
And IMHO the "punchline" of the whole game:
"I was in a *computer game*...The funny thing is, it was the most horrible
thing I could think of"
DemilinX
news:jCue8.4467$tA.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> 4) Quake III.
>
> With the exception of pointless Satanic imagery, is there anything in this
> game that wasn't done better in Unreal Tournament?
The graphics but you kind of touched on that in your post. :) I'm still in
awe at games comming out using the Q3A engine (Medal of Honor, Return to
Castle Wolfenstein, etc.).
--
MåT W¡££¡åM§
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
np:
*meep*
"I hate when lanes end."
DemilinX
> 4. Max Payne
>
> Perks:
> * Painkillers instead of HP potions
> * Bullet-time
> * Some cool dream sequences and drugged scenes, e.g. the long, long
hallway
> visual trickery; the red blood trails in black space; the repeating room
> exit while on drugs.
>
> Flaws:
> * No 1st person view option
I think Eep-squared (and probably other people) made a patch that enabled a
first person viewpoint and it was well done according to others.
Daniel L. Bateman
I'll second the Diablo nomination. Hmm, let's see. Walk around.
Mmm, monsters. Click-click-click. Click click click click click
click click click click click click. Click. Click click click click
click click click click click click click click click. Treasure. Go
ALL THE WAY BACK TO TOWN. Walk around. Monsters. Repeat clicking.
Treasure. Go ALL THE WAY BACK TO TOWN. How is this fun exactly?
Then Diablo 2 comes out. Oooh, this will surely be better. Um, no,
not really. Is that 640x480? Well no matter, it's gameplay that
matters. Whoops, same game, new maps, new monsters, but they made
everybody wait a couple years.
I know I have now made many cyber enemies, let the flames begin. I
had to get that off my chest.
-Dan
Daniel L. Bateman
>
> Perks:
> * The CD makes a good coaster for your beers
>
> Flaws:
> * VSIM sucks and is way overrated (no wonder why I haven't seen it used in
> another game since)
> * Way too hard even on easy (and I'm not kidding)
>
I liked Die by the Sword, and I didn't think it was that hard,
although I admit I didn't finish it.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 4. Max Payne
> Flaws:
> * No 1st person view option
Oh, now you've did it, you troll troller. Now you're going to get
Eep in this thread...
-Dan
Hank the Rapper
I liked Die by the Sword. It was difficult but I like the arena mode the
best. I played that for hours.
Max Payne. I hated, hated, hated this game. The story was crap. The moment
he said "The sun fell with practiced bravado" I almost punched the screen.
It was the same thing over and over again. You just shoot people. Those
"dream" mazes were a joke and didn't belong. This was like Metal Gear Solid
2 for the PC. Two minutes of game play then five minutes of cut scene.
Unreal. The graphics were amazing. The AI was good. The weapons were the
worst. You had to unload have your ammo just to kill one monster. Not to
mention the had the tough monster at the begining. Let's hope Unreal 2 is
better.
Hank the rapper
Gordon Hollenbeck
>
> Not so much over-rated as irritating. The games themselves are really not
my
> cuppa tea, but they deliver what they promise. My problem was that their
> insane success filtered down into the RPG industry by everybody trying to
> force a Diablo-type combat into their games, regardless if it made any
sense
> or not. (I'm looking at YOU, Arcanum!)
Hell ya! D1 and D2 were the crappiest swords/magic I've ever played. It's
like, go kill monster 12352 and get a sword. Now go kill monster 59583 and
get a BETTER sword!! Wow! What great gameplay. makes me want to play it...
[snip]
> 4) Quake III.
>
> With the exception of pointless Satanic imagery, is there anything in this
> game that wasn't done better in Unreal Tournament?
This one too. I got it expecting it to be fun but...
1) no plot
2) not enough guns to compensate for no plot
3) no plot
4) no levels to progress through like in Doom, only "kill anything that
moves"
5) and finallay, no plot
[snip]
Martin Keene (LIS)
Malice TC for it.
DemilinX
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020226...@luna.cas.usf.edu...
> More fuel for the fire: Quake---The only good thing about it was the
> Malice TC for it.
Malice was a great TC but it got horribly boring in the middle. I remember
mostly running all over the levels once I got a key trying to find the door
it went to. I had such a lacking sense of direction in the TC. Everything
looked alike with very few landmarks that made areas noteworthy.
I loved the cinematics in it though and some of the weapons were really
cool.
Any ways... the magic of Quake was in its ability to be customized. There
were several great levels made for it and mods (such as the TC you
mentioned).
Kendt Eklund
> Did you ever try playing with an analog joystick? I got the feeling that
> that was the way you were meant to play DBTS. Swing the joystick from left
> to right and your character would swing his sword from left to right at the
> same speed. It felt almost as if you were actually holding a real sword in
> your hand (not that I've ever held a real sword). If they ever created a
> version of DBTS that could work at decent speed in multiplayer over the
> internet, I'd definitely preorder it.
With a Force-Feedback stick it's especially fun - you get the effect
of the weight of your sword, and you feel impacts and blocked swings.
I still fire it up every now and then to carve a few pork chops ;).
Kendt
Gav
<heynow_Han...@larrysanders.com> wrote:
[..]
>Unreal. The graphics were amazing. The AI was good. The weapons were the
>worst. You had to unload have your ammo just to kill one monster. Not to
>mention the had the tough monster at the begining. Let's hope Unreal 2 is
>better.
Unreal never grabbed me at all, definitely over-hyped IMO.
However, I *lurrrrve* Unreal Tournament and it's one of my most
played games.
Gav
--
Real email is gavan(hyphen)martin(dot)moran(at)ubs(dot)com
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my own, not my employers
"Du musst Amboss oder Hammer sein"
Gonzo
news:3c7a6f32....@netnews.attbi.com...> >--------------------------------------------------
> >2. Final Fantasy 8
>
> This game wasn't that highly regarded to begin with.
>
> My addition would be....HALF LIFE! I thought it was good, but it was
> not the transcendental experience everyone makes it out to be. For a
> deep, story-oriented FPS, I think Jedi Knight is still king.
My thoughts EXACTLY. I actually was flamed because I stated that same
opinion when HL first came out and all hell broke loose. And if you
remember, HL was a buggy mess in the network game dept to boot. I would
choose JK or even the original Unreal over HL any day but I did honestly
enjoy HL very much. It did add a few new twists to FPS games.
Ben Bastian
time.
"Peter B. Steiger" <see...@for.email.address> wrote in message
news:3c7a92a1...@netnews.attbi.com...
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:01:12 +1000, Taren Durbank sez:
> >Do I think HL is *way* overrated? Probably not, maybe just *somewhat*
> >overrated. It is a pretty good game, and more deserving of praise than
the
> >others I mentioned.
>
> I think what distinguishes HL from its FPS ancestors is the extensive
> plot depth. I have never cared for FPS's because I like to think my
> entertainment needs are a little more civilized than "run around
> shooting everything in sight and watching the lifelike blood spurting
> around on the screen". I almost threw out HL when I got it for
> Christmas, but two things stopped me - (a) I figured my friend
> would see it if I put it on eBay right away, and (2) I did some
> research on the web and found out there's more to the game than
> just shoot-em-up. I even allowed my kidlings, who are NEVER
> allowed to play violent games or watch violent movies, to participate
> in the various puzzle solving scenes.
>
> Does Doom have any friendly NPCs, or are you expected to kill
> anything that moves? I liked the conversations with the NPCs,
> and watching the barneys and scientists rag on each other.
>
>
> Peter B. Steiger
> Cheyenne, WY
> ----
> If you reply by email, send it to pbs at com dot
> canada (or vice-versa). All advertisements will be
> returned to your postmaster, eh!
Ben Bastian
Law
StarCraft
Warcraft
Diablo 1,2
Metal Gear Solid
Quake 1,2,A for single sp only
Baldurs Gate 1
Tomb Raider after the first one.
Need for Speed series
Myst
--
對我這老人家
倉頡真的很難學呀
Pascal Schwinn
> System Shock was far far ahead of it. Thief also came out at about the same
> time.
Agree violently! :-)
It's such a shame, that Looking Glass is no more. :-(
Pascal
--
"Once you think you are someone, you stopped becoming somebody" - Dieter Nuhr
Pascal Schwinn
however and it had the classic film noir meets Dirty Harry atmosphere. I also
think, telling the strory via comic strips was intentional, so the whole game
had the story of a comic, full of clichés and stereotypes.
Did I mention that it looked cool? I did? D'OH! ;-)
DemilinX
>
> I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
> overrated.
As someone else mentioned in this thread, StarCraft is way over-rated. I
bought it within the week it came out but never got around to playing it
until a year later. Something just didn't seem as appealing as WarCraft II.
WC2 pretty much hit everything right and SC, while a good game, failed to
met my expectations after playing WC2.
Eero Vainionpää
> point...It was a console like game (it played like a console game..it
> looked like a console game...it smelled like a console game...etc...etc)
How can you determinate what's console based game? Consoles are all just
computers... most of them are really close to PC, the all have processor,
audio processor, graphics accelerator, memory... So component's are the
same...
The thing that max is great also in consoles doesn't make it a console game.
It's still made for pc and only for pc. it has only been converted to
consoles
Robert Tweed
news:OXJe8.115$B41....@read2.inet.fi...
I think the term "video game" can probably be substituted for "console game"
and the opinion starts to make more sense (whether or not you actually agree
with it). I think that all he's trying to say, is that the overall feel of
the game is more like a console/arcade style video game than the style
normally reminiscent of PC games. That can be a very fine line for shooters,
but anyone who knows their games can usually perceive a subtle difference. I
haven't actually played MP yet because my notebook doesn't have enough video
memory :-( Therefore,I don't really know whether it is a console-esque, or
PC-esque game. However, I do understand the point that the poster is trying
to make.
Oddly enough though, I would class Perfect Dark as more PC-ish than
console-ish, yet it's clearly a console game. To be honest, this boundary is
a particularly silly one that's really not worth defining.
- Robert
Sam Jones
"Invader Portia_EH" <ehou...@no2spamzipperint.com> wrote in message
news:3c7abd70$1...@news.nwlink.com...
> Stop me if I'm wrong here ... Did you just include Taren's /entire/ post
in
> your USENET post just to say one word?
>
> I pity the poor UK blokes that have to pay per the bits transferred.
That would be me, then.
Chris B.
end of of Super Bowl? The guy knows nothing.
Ben Sisson wrote:
(snip)
mtkafka
- Everquest ... not so much for the game itslef (which isnt bad for a hack n
slash uber fest) but the terrible support and a lack to EVER listen to fans.
Support is so terrible that they released a buggy expansion pack that literally
was a SoL for fans. Sad thing is Evercrack heads love to this game too much to
give it up.
- Civ 3... rushed release, nothing relatively enhanced or new to the Civ series
imo.
- Quake 3 engine games ... almost all the Q3 engine games have been a
dissapointment to me... from Star Trek EF to even RTCW/MoH. Alice and HMFakk2
are actually my favorite Q3 games (which isnt much to say). Most of the Q3
games dont do anything new and are all weekend affairs (literally less than 10
hours gameplay). Sad to see most Unreal/Lithtech engine games dont get as much
publicity as the overrated Q3 engine games.
- GTA3 .... played this (and a few other ps2 titles) a bit when i borrowed a
friends ps2... its good but not great (like the open ended missions structure).
the game reminds me of Crazy Taxi meets Max Payne story with a bit of Sonic
Adventure adventure "collect hidden things" aspects bleh.... The "adult"
material was cheesy, nothing we havent seen in Kingpin or even Sin.
- TPHS3 .... please its pretty much the same game as TPHS2!!!!
- MGS2 .... wow cutscenes = gameplay... snore.
theres a lot more but these are the ones most overrated i see when reading
reviews.
etc
mtkafka
> Well, if anybody cares what I think.
>
> I liked Die by the Sword. It was difficult but I like the arena mode the
> best. I played that for hours.
I liked DBTS once I got used to it... at least it wasnt like Trescrapper er
Boobpasser er Trespasser (Cratesim!). Though these games arent overrated
much... since they got so so to below avg reviews.
> Max Payne. I hated, hated, hated this game. The story was crap. The moment
> he said "The sun fell with practiced bravado" I almost punched the screen.
HAHAH! cheese dialogue was one of the better parts of Max Payne when it didnt
take itself too seriously. Otherwise above average game that I'd rate along
with Sin or Kingin or SoF as just "OK"..
> Hank the rapper
Papara the Rapper was an underrated game!
etc
mtkafka
Another great part of UT that hasn't been copied as much yet was its ranking
system. It keeps me playing, even in botmatches!
etc
Mark Morrison
wrote:
>Actually, what bothered me the most was how short this game was. It looked cool
>however and it had the classic film noir meets Dirty Harry atmosphere. I also
>think, telling the strory via comic strips was intentional, so the whole game
>had the story of a comic, full of clichés and stereotypes.
>Did I mention that it looked cool? I did? D'OH! ;-)
>
>Pascal
I loved Max Payne. It was short but, like Diablo 2, could be played
again on a harder level.
Beating it also unlocked another type of game of game, IIRC. A 'beat
the clock' type thing.
--
Bunnies aren't cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
mtkafka
> "Martin Keene (LIS)" <mke...@luna.cas.usf.edu> wrote:
>
> > More fuel for the fire: Quake---The only good thing about it was the
> > Malice TC for it.
>
> Quake TeamFortress and MegaTeamFortress kicked ass.
I still like "old" Quake TF better than any new online team fps... it could
be though that at the time of Quake TF/CTF the general player wasnt as much
as whiny babies they are now (seemingly i mean). Playing a pickup game of
CS is more a game of patience than anything else these days.
etc
Gav
[..]
>> Unreal never grabbed me at all, definitely over-hyped IMO.
>>
>> However, I *lurrrrve* Unreal Tournament and it's one of my most
>> played games.
[..]
>Another great part of UT that hasn't been copied as much yet was its ranking
>system. It keeps me playing, even in botmatches!
The ranking system never seemed to work for me, not even local
stats. Some kind of missing file which I was never able to install.
TBH I think that the rankings 'inspired' a lot of outright cheating
and spawn killing and the like, with people doing anything just to
boost their stats.
mtkafka
Yeah Starcraft was good but not great. I look to TA and Warcraft 2 and CnC as
being RTS greats that deserve the claim. And doesnt anybody remember Seven
Kingdoms? Now there was one of the most innovative rts games!
etc
Peter Cowderoy
On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Jarno Kaarinen wrote:
> cont...@hotmail.com (Daniel L. Bateman) wrote:
>
> >/me puts flameproof suit on.
> >
> > I'll second the Diablo nomination. Hmm, let's see. Walk around.
> >Mmm, monsters. Click-click-click. Click click click click click
> >click click click click click click. Click. Click click click click
> >click click click click click click click click click. Treasure. Go
>
> Doesn't that describe almost any game with any action in it?
>
Most of them have something else you need to be doing during the clicking
though.
I'm supposed to put a quote here?
mtkafka
> James Garvin <bo...@nmt.edu> wrote:
>
> >I think the problem is (looking back at the orginal post) is the poster
> >doesn't like console games... (MGS, FF8, and Max Payne (although it is
> >on the PC we can all agree that the roots for Max are console)
>
> How come? The development was started on PC a long time ago. Do you
> consider Heretic II "roots" to be on console side too? Or Hitman?
>
> And same question for Die by The Sword.
Heretic 2... the best third person shooter EVER! It rock good folks!
etc
Taren Durbank
> you mean any review above 0 was too high.
Hmm, maybe I was mistaken. But I recall www.avault.com rating it 4.5/5 stars
and giving it a Seal of Excellence. Then I played it... And, oh God, the
horror...
James Garvin
>
> How can you determinate what's console based game? Consoles are all just
> computers... most of them are really close to PC, the all have processor,
> audio processor, graphics accelerator, memory... So component's are the
> same...
*whooosh* that is the sound of the point you missed...
> The thing that max is great also in consoles doesn't make it a console game.
> It's still made for pc and only for pc. it has only been converted to
> consoles
It is still made only for the PC, but it it on consoles?? I'm a little
confused by this statement?
Anyway, everyone knows what a console game is like and everyone knows
what a PC game is like...Max Pain feels much more like a console game
then a PC game.
--
James Garvin
bo...@nmt.edu
-----BEGIN BOOT'S GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/B/H !d s+:+@ a-@ C++>++++ UL++ P+ L++>++++ E++ W--@ N++ o+ K---
w++
O- M-- V-- PS+ PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+(++) 5-- X++ R++>$ tv b+ DI+++ D++
G e+>+++ h--- r+++ y+++ A09 H+++>* P+++
------END BOOT'S GEEK CODE BLOCK------
James Garvin
> Funny, the control scheme is very un-consolish. Mouse + keyboard.
AARRGGG...yes...We've gone over this...
> What makes it "consolish" then? Just because it has a third-person
> view? So did Heretic II, Hitman and countless other PC games.
3rd person view, the story, the horrible voice overs, the non-stop
action, the "pick up the weapon kill the foozle" idea of it...everything
about Max Pain screams "I'm a console game!"
Vodak
modification to Half-life but now it's spawned a gayness all it's own =]
--
___ ___________ __ ___ ___
\ \ / / \ \/ \\ | / /
\ \ / /| | | || | || | |/ /
\ \ / | | | || | || | |\ \
\__\/ \___/____/_/\_\__| \__\
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
http://www.pewp.net/
icq : 30242206 -- AIM : plugmyduck
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Gonzo" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ZBHe8.18933$dj3.6...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
gbayles
[snip]
> 4. SMAC: Dressed up Civ 2 with less logic and more technobabble. It
> was milking the franchise and nothing more.
Tastes vary - IMHO, it was and still is the best of the genre.
StarEye
"Daywanderer" <daywa...@3dactionplanet.com> skrev i melding
news:a5eaj8$6j13o$1...@ID-42471.news.dfncis.de...
> "StarEye" <sta...@online.no> skrev i melding
> news:t9xe8.218$TU3....@news4.ulv.nextra.no...
> > Ok. I see, but I don't agree. It plays like a FPS and FPS's are best on
a
> > PC. At least most seems to agree about that. When I played the game on
my
> > PS2, I missed the possibility to use a mouse and a keyboard. Even if I
had
> > that, it didn't support it. Strange...
>
> Genre-wise, Max Payne isn't an FPS, but a TPS (Third-Person Shooter). TPS
> games are, IMO, best on consoles - and more common.
>
I fail to see that Max Payne is any better on a console as long as it plays
exactly like most FPS. The fact that Max i visible, doesn't make it into a
TPS. It's a TPS cosmetically, but not when it comes to play it. Max Payne
doesn't play like most TPS's do. What do the controls even resembles games
like Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider? I think not. MP is a FPS
with the looks of a TPS.
StarEye
Vodak
I believe that James is saying that Max Payne feels like a console game as
opposed to a computer game because of a couple of things. The simplfied
story telling, the lack of depth in any of the characters. The sterio typing
of an action hero and the grand villian. Everything that plagues console
games yet makes them appealing to the masses is present in Max Payne.
A five year old can pick up Max Payne. be able to run the game, and
understand the chracters and story.
--
___ ___________ __ ___ ___
\ \ / / \ \/ \\ | / /
\ \ / /| | | || | || | |/ /
\ \ / | | | || | || | |\ \
\__\/ \___/____/_/\_\__| \__\
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
http://www.pewp.net/
icq : 30242206 -- AIM : plugmyduck
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Jarno Kaarinen" <ja...@remotel.com> wrote in message
news:RFF7PNfjuHmWYU...@131.228.6.98...
> James Garvin <bo...@nmt.edu> wrote:
>
> >StarEye wrote:
> >>
> >> (although it is
> >> > on the PC we can all agree that the roots for Max are console)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Actually, Max Payne is a PC-game converted to consoles. Not vice-versa.
> >
> >Yes...but the roots (the over all feeling of the game) is VERY
> >console...
>
> Funny, the control scheme is very un-consolish. Mouse + keyboard.
>
> >But yes it came out for the PC first...still doesn't make it
> >non-consoley
James Garvin
>
> What about Counter-strike as an over rated game?? Yes it started out as a
> modification to Half-life but now it's spawned a gayness all it's own =]
Aside from all the cheating, laggy players, idiot 14 year olds, stupid
tags, dumb clans, shitty servers, and a/s/ling...how it is gay ;-)
James Garvin
SMAC was much better with the expansion pack too...What was it called
Alien Crossfire??????
Vodak
the people you interact with it just makes you sad.
--
___ ___________ __ ___ ___
\ \ / / \ \/ \\ | / /
\ \ / /| | | || | || | |/ /
\ \ / | | | || | || | |\ \
\__\/ \___/____/_/\_\__| \__\
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
http://www.pewp.net/
icq : 30242206 -- AIM : plugmyduck
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"James Garvin" <bo...@nmt.edu> wrote in message
news:3C7BAD23...@nmt.edu...
James Garvin
>
> (While I could be wrong I'm going to talk anyway)
>
> I believe that James is saying that Max Payne feels like a console game as
> opposed to a computer game because of a couple of things. The simplfied
> story telling, the lack of depth in any of the characters. The sterio typing
> of an action hero and the grand villian. Everything that plagues console
> games yet makes them appealing to the masses is present in Max Payne.
>
> A five year old can pick up Max Payne. be able to run the game, and
> understand the chracters and story.
That is the long and the short of it... ;-)
Big Bad Joe
<tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Just a pet peeve of mine, thought it would be a bit of fun.
>
>I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
>overrated.
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>1. Metal Gear Solid, aka "Best game on Playstation"
>
I liked this game, but I couldn't see what the big, fat, hairy deal
was. I thought Tenchu, which came out about the same time, was a far
superior game, even ignoring MGS's brevity and relative lack of
replayability. And the plot for MGS was heart-stoppingly cliched.
Also, if I had heard ONE MORE DAMN SPEECH about nuclear weapons, I
would have tossed the CD off my balcony.
>--------------------------------------------------
>2. Final Fantasy 8
>
Never played it, but I gave up on FF7 halfway through after realizing
that I wasn't actually *doing* anything but killing monsters. I felt
like I wasn't in control at all, but a cat's paw for some demiurge.
Yes, I know that's the Final Fantasy/Japanese/Console RPG style.
Screw it.
I'd add Tomb Raider to the list, just because the control really
sucked. Too bad--otherwise, at least the first one or two would have
been pretty good.
Big Bad Joe
Daywanderer
> I fail to see that Max Payne is any better on a console as long as it
plays
> exactly like most FPS. The fact that Max i visible, doesn't make it into a
> TPS. It's a TPS cosmetically, but not when it comes to play it. Max Payne
> doesn't play like most TPS's do. What do the controls even resembles games
> like Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider? I think not. MP is a
FPS
> with the looks of a TPS.
Just pointed out a technicality, never said I didn't agree with you. I
haven't played the PS2 version, so I wouldn't know how the control lay-out
is there. It works well on the PC though.
Daywanderer
--
Field Reporter - www.GhostRecon.net | www.AGR-S.com
Staff Writer - www.3DActionPlanet.com
Daywa...@3DActionPlanet.com
ICQ UIN: 46676767
"Fortune sides with he who dares."
Daywanderer
news:3C7BA2E8...@nmt.edu...
> 3rd person view,
*cough*Hitman: Codename 47*cough*
> the story,
Seeing as how it was intentionally cliché, I actually consider it good.
Better than most of the unintentionally crap storylines you see for many
standard console shoot-fests.
> the horrible voice overs,
See above.
> the non-stop
> action,
See any traditional shooter released since Wolfenstein 3D.
> the "pick up the weapon kill the foozle" idea of it
See Quake, et al.
> ...everything
> about Max Pain screams "I'm a console game!"
...and following your criteria, so do many PC games.
With games being ported left, right up and down these days - I don't really
thing there is such a thing as "console games" and "video games" per se
anymore (unless you count genres which are better on either of the two.
Racing and traditional third-person shooters for consoles, first-person
shooters and strategy for PCs, etc).
Eep²
Big Bad Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:05:19 +1000, "Taren Durbank"
> <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Just a pet peeve of mine, thought it would be a bit of fun.
> >
> >I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
> >overrated.
>
chy...@ludens.elte.hu
> Notice how diablo is basically Nethack with prettier graphics?
And far less depth. I don't particularily like Nethack (ADOM
is, in my opinion, far superior), but they thought of
_everything_ in that game.
Chzyron
--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his
heart he dreams himself your master." -- Commissioner Pravin Lal
"People who think they have a right not to be offended are trouble."
-- Alsee
Tony Gowland
plays
> exactly like most FPS. The fact that Max i visible, doesn't make it into a
> TPS. It's a TPS cosmetically, but not when it comes to play it. Max Payne
> doesn't play like most TPS's do. What do the controls even resembles games
> like Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider? I think not. MP is a
FPS
> with the looks of a TPS.
It doesn't matter what it looks like, or what the controls are. The fact is
that you view your character through a third person camera, and the game
consists of shooting things. Therefore, it's a third person shooter.
--
Tony Gowland
http://www.planethalflife.com/freakyzoids/
"Exciting illiterates since 1998."
Lucian Wischik
>And far less depth. I don't particularily like Nethack (ADOM
>is, in my opinion, far superior), but they thought of
>_everything_ in that game.
That doesn't make it deep -- just fat!
--
Lucian Wischik, Queens' College, Cambridge CB3 9ET. www.wischik.com/lu
Daywanderer
(God, what horrid and utterly crap humour I have.. Disregard :)
Daywanderer
--
Field Reporter - www.GhostRecon.net | www.AGR-S.com
Staff Writer - www.3DActionPlanet.com
Daywa...@3DActionPlanet.com
ICQ UIN: 46676767
"Fortune sides with he who dares."
"Eep²" <e...@tnlc.com> skrev i melding news:3C7BBA6C...@tnlc.com...
Eric VanHeest
> I'd add Tomb Raider to the list, just because the control really
> sucked. Too bad--otherwise, at least the first one or two would have
> been pretty good.
Don't bad-mouth Tomb Raider; you'll summon Eep and his "facts" about
gameplay .. oh, too late...
Steven R. Aeyough
>"Steven R. Aeyough" <y...@nomaybe.com> wrote in message
>news:ff7l7usvr1cnhna3k...@4ax.com...
>>
>> I don't recall Die by the Sword being rated all that highly--unless
>> you mean any review above 0 was too high. VSIM was an attrocious
>> control scheme, though. Swish the mouse left to right and the guy
>> lifts his sword straight up. Swish top-right to bottom-left and he
>> kinda jerks the around sword a little in the air. WTF? The little
>> free-for-all game where you can control the creatures (like the ogre!)
>> was pretty fun, though.
>
>Did you ever try playing with an analog joystick? I got the feeling that
>that was the way you were meant to play DBTS. Swing the joystick from left
>to right and your character would swing his sword from left to right at the
>same speed. It felt almost as if you were actually holding a real sword in
>your hand (not that I've ever held a real sword). If they ever created a
>version of DBTS that could work at decent speed in multiplayer over the
>internet, I'd definitely preorder it.
No kiddin'? I might have to try that if I can figure out where I put
that game. What I'd like to see is a "Power Glove" version of the
game. With force-feedback. Yeah, baby! :)
Steven R. Aeyough
<ilkhanik...@DIESPAMyahoo.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:05:19 +1000, "Taren Durbank"
><tare...@hotmail.com> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially
>whispered:
>
>>I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are commonly
>>overrated.
>
>1. Black and White: tedious annoying "gameplay". It was hyped on its
>engine and its AI (which I also found unbelievably overrated). Worse
>PC game mistake I ever made, and worst value for the dollar period.
Heh. I lost interest at the beginning of the second land. Teaching
the monster to destroy houses with his own poop was pretty funny, but
sweet Jesus were those quests tedious. Especially the "find a bunch
of really tiny things on the island" quests, which was most of them on
the first land. I don't know how they could have done the quests any
better, aside from to have ditched them completely. While they were
at it, they could have ditched the story, just had a sandbox mode, and
sold the game for $20 as a competitor to Dogz and Catz.
>3. Diablo 2: while I liked Gauntlet I expect more than identical
>gameplay with the added perk of a small amount of character building,
>especially considering the original Gauntlet took about ten times or
>even twenty times longer to finish and came out like fifteen years
Gauntlet had an ending?
Pascal Schwinn
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:09:13 GMT, Ben Sisson
> <ilkhanik...@DIESPAMyahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >1. Black and White: tedious annoying "gameplay". It was hyped on its
> >engine and its AI (which I also found unbelievably overrated). Worse
> >PC game mistake I ever made, and worst value for the dollar period.
>
> Heh. I lost interest at the beginning of the second land. Teaching
> the monster to destroy houses with his own poop was pretty funny, but
> sweet Jesus were those quests tedious. Especially the "find a bunch
> of really tiny things on the island" quests, which was most of them on
> the first land.
OH YEAH! These damn sheep! When I found the last one, it mysteriously died
while in my hand! Strange enough, I found two other ones later, so the boy
was happy. When I restarted the game, because it totally messed up first
time, before I knew there was a patch, I had my animal eat all the quest
starting people on the island. that speeded things up alot! Now the "game"
is rotting on my harddisk, while I play more rewarding games which are
less buggy (jep, despite the patch)
Pascal, who wanted a game, not a blown up tamagotchi
--
"Once you think you are someone, you stopped becoming somebody" - Dieter
Nuhr
StarEye
"Vodak" <vo...@mx3.org> skrev i melding
news:78Oe8.4344$k5.21...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> (While I could be wrong I'm going to talk anyway)
>
> I believe that James is saying that Max Payne feels like a console game as
> opposed to a computer game because of a couple of things. The simplfied
> story telling, the lack of depth in any of the characters. The sterio
typing
> of an action hero and the grand villian. Everything that plagues console
> games yet makes them appealing to the masses is present in Max Payne.
>
From what I've experienced, that has nothing to do with a console.
Simplified story? Stereo-typing? Console-games are actually no different
than PC-games. Controls are the only difference, if there are any. I can see
when a game would work better on a console or PC. I can easily see that a
FPS works better on a PC, and since Max Payne plays like most FPS's it works
better on a PC. I don't think it feels like a console game. When playing it
on my PS2, I keep hearing "pc-conversion" in my head all the time.
StarEye
(hey, this discussion is quite interesting)
Vodak
he wrong just nod smile and think to yourself hes an idiot.
--
___ ___________ __ ___ ___
\ \ / / \ \/ \\ | / /
\ \ / /| | | || | || | |/ /
\ \ / | | | || | || | |\ \
\__\/ \___/____/_/\_\__| \__\
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
http://www.pewp.net/
icq : 30242206 -- AIM : plugmyduck
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"StarEye" <sta...@online.no> wrote in message
news:PkSe8.842$eJ6....@news2.ulv.nextra.no...
StarEye
"Tony Gowland" <to...@nospam.com> skrev i melding
news:%%Oe8.4961$7U.13...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
> > I fail to see that Max Payne is any better on a console as long as it
> plays
> > exactly like most FPS. The fact that Max i visible, doesn't make it into
a
> > TPS. It's a TPS cosmetically, but not when it comes to play it. Max
Payne
> > doesn't play like most TPS's do. What do the controls even resembles
games
> > like Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider? I think not. MP is a
> FPS
> > with the looks of a TPS.
>
> It doesn't matter what it looks like, or what the controls are. The fact
is
> that you view your character through a third person camera, and the game
> consists of shooting things. Therefore, it's a third person shooter.
Well, the game has graphics and Max is on quite an adventure, therefore it's
a Graphic Adventure. No, you really have to take controls and gameplay in
consideration, so it's a FPS disguised as a TPS. You tried Red Faction on
PS2? That's how the game is played. The fact that you can see your character
on the screen is the only thing that differs it from FPS's. If you cannot
put it in the FPS catagory there would be no reason to have two different
catagories. That's just how I feel...
StarEye
Knight37
> Anyway, everyone knows what a console game is like and everyone knows
> what a PC game is like...Max Pain feels much more like a console game
> then a PC game.
Not to me it didn't. It had save anywhere. No consoles have that. It also
had keyboard/mouse controls. Almost no consoles have that. And it had a
~console command, which let you look at low level code or enter cheats, and
almost no console has that. Lastly, it has mods. No console has that. Yet.
I'm still waiting why you think it's "console". To me, it's a straight up,
kick ass 3rd person shooter, ala the original Tomb Raider minus the puzzles,
or even closer ala Heretic II.
--
Knight37
"Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun."
-- Good Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Knight37
> (While I could be wrong I'm going to talk anyway)
>
> I believe that James is saying that Max Payne feels like a console game
> as opposed to a computer game because of a couple of things. The
> simplfied story telling, the lack of depth in any of the characters.
> The sterio typing of an action hero and the grand villian. Everything
> that plagues console games yet makes them appealing to the masses is
> present in Max Payne.
>
> A five year old can pick up Max Payne. be able to run the game, and
> understand the chracters and story.
As opposed to the depth of story in Quake?
Story has nothing to do with console vs. PC.
--
Knight37
My problem for my entire life has been my overwhelming modesty and humility
about my own ability level.
-- Cleve Blakemore, csipg.rpg
StarEye
> Well you have no idea what he's talking about. instead of trying to tell
him
> he wrong just nod smile and think to yourself hes an idiot.
>
> --
Why don't YOU explain then, what IS the difference of console-games and
PC-games? If you only play on a PC or only play on a console, then forget
it. You need to know both sides to answer this question. Those who say that
console-games are simplified have no idea what they're talking about.
However, if that wasn't his point... I guess I missed it.
btw: why would I think he's an idiot?
StarEye
Eero Vainionpää
> confused by this statement?
>
> Anyway, everyone knows what a console game is like and everyone knows
> what a PC game is like...Max Pain feels much more like a console game
> then a PC game.
It was made for PC and only for pc
means:
They didn't intend to make it to consoles in a first place... but as there
was 440k of pre-orders ofcourse they converted it to consoles...
Just to tell how much profit MP made. Breakeven point was at 144k
glenrm
Ben Sisson
that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered:
>Heres a few of my overrated games...
>
>- Everquest ... not so much for the game itslef (which isnt bad for a hack n
>slash uber fest) but the terrible support and a lack to EVER listen to fans.
>Support is so terrible that they released a buggy expansion pack that literally
>was a SoL for fans. Sad thing is Evercrack heads love to this game too much to
>give it up.
It's not a question of loving it too much to give it up, its a
question of nobody making anything better in three years of it being
out.
--
Ben Sisson
"Asking the ISU to investigate itself is like asking Enron to do an
internal audit."
- Brian Williams on the Salt Lake Screwjob in figure skating
DemilinX
news:f60c4132.02022...@posting.google.com...
> 1) Black and White
> 2) Diakatana
Daikatana was probably the most over-hyped game but hardly over-rated
(luckily). :)
--
MåT W¡££¡åM§
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
np:
*meep*
"I hate when lanes end."
Otaku
>
> Can she roll over and play dead too? Or better yet, can she *bend* over?
She can roll over and die for real. As for bending over, well,
technically yes, although she does it in the process of completing more
complicated moves, so I'm not sure if it really counts :)
> (God, what horrid and utterly crap humour I have.. Disregard :)
(I prefer to take it at face value and keep going :)
Joe62
<ilkhanik...@DIESPAMyahoo.ca> wrote:
>1. Black and White: tedious annoying "gameplay".
True enough. Anyone who likes this game should take up an exciting
career as an accountant, or perhaps a government buerecrat.
Micro-management Hell.
>5. Madden football games.
The EA NHL series is worse. Can't count how many chances I've given
them, always to be disappointed.
Markku S
> I still like "old" Quake TF better than any new online team fps... it could
> be though that at the time of Quake TF/CTF the general player wasnt as much
> as whiny babies they are now (seemingly i mean). Playing a pickup game of
> CS is more a game of patience than anything else these days.
Playing a Half-life TFC pickup game is the best there is. Fast action, good
tactics, skilled players and no BS. I've tried some QWTF too, but those
people who still play it, are way too Leet for me.
--
/"\ /
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign / Why and how to CROSSPOST:
X Against HTML Mail / malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/xpost.html
/ \ /
James Garvin
> From what I've experienced, that has nothing to do with a console.
> Simplified story? Stereo-typing? Console-games are actually no different
> than PC-games. Controls are the only difference, if there are any. I can see
> when a game would work better on a console or PC. I can easily see that a
> FPS works better on a PC, and since Max Payne plays like most FPS's it works
> better on a PC. I don't think it feels like a console game. When playing it
> on my PS2, I keep hearing "pc-conversion" in my head all the time.
It is really...
I disagree that console games are no different from PC games.
In general console games:
Target the under 16 (18?) age group
Have lots of "typical" game elements (eg lots of shooting, key combos, find key
for door a, etc)
The stories are juvenile or non existent
Over simplify and cheesify gameplay and story elements to reach that target
group
In general PC games
Target for an older audience (usually late teen and post teen)
Have deeper stories or at least a little more complex plot
More indepth control schemes
Raise the bar (eg Half Life put a story with a FPS, PST is a book/game, etc)
This isn't to say that how it always is...However Max Pain had a pretty straight
forward key setup and I could see easily porting it...BUT the story was dark and
you wouldn't understand a lot of the cheese if you haven't ever watch a bad film
noir movie...but the plot was transparent (ala general rule of console games),
the game play involved shooting bad guy A-Z to get to area Xn, and there was
very little strategy involved with fighting and using bullet time...
Robert Tweed
Jeez, this argument is taking on a silliness of Eepish proportions. It's
quite easy to categorise. It's a shooter. It's viewed from the *third
person* perspective, *not* the first person, therefore it is a
third-person-shooter. That's the only difference between a TPS and an FPS.
If you don't think there should be two categories then just call them all
shooters, but don't try to call something an FPS if it isn't in the first
person, that's just nonsense!
- Robert
Steven R. Aeyough
wrote:
>"Steven R. Aeyough" wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:09:13 GMT, Ben Sisson
>> <ilkhanik...@DIESPAMyahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >1. Black and White: tedious annoying "gameplay". It was hyped on its
>> >engine and its AI (which I also found unbelievably overrated). Worse
>> >PC game mistake I ever made, and worst value for the dollar period.
>>
>> Heh. I lost interest at the beginning of the second land. Teaching
>> the monster to destroy houses with his own poop was pretty funny, but
>> sweet Jesus were those quests tedious. Especially the "find a bunch
>> of really tiny things on the island" quests, which was most of them on
>> the first land.
>
>OH YEAH! These damn sheep! When I found the last one, it mysteriously died
>while in my hand! Strange enough, I found two other ones later, so the boy
>was happy. When I restarted the game, because it totally messed up first
>time, before I knew there was a patch, I had my animal eat all the quest
>starting people on the island. that speeded things up alot! Now the "game"
>is rotting on my harddisk, while I play more rewarding games which are
>less buggy (jep, despite the patch)
The sheep one was really bad, because they had a habit of disappearing
into any slopes they were on. Even worse was the singing stone one,
though, because not only did you have to collect a lot of them, but
some of them were bogus!
Simpilot
Never could get into either of them.
New York Yankees #1 fan!!
LSU Tigers #1 fan!!
Dark Age of Camelot Theurgist of 38 seasons
McGrandpa [AGQx]
"Eep²" <e...@tnlc.com> wrote in message
news:3C7BBA6C...@tnlc.com...
> Actually, Tomb Raider probably has one of the BEST character controls
of ANY 3D action-adventure (or just action) game: Lara's jumps can be
timed EXACTLY, her walk spacing and other movements are also constant,
she can grab ledges in mid-air (jumping, falling), etc.
>
I agree, it makes the game more easily playable across all releases of
them. I also prefer
the default keyboard layout, it just seems easier to me.
McG.
> Big Bad Joe wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:05:19 +1000, "Taren Durbank"
> > <tare...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Just a pet peeve of mine, thought it would be a bit of fun.
> > >
> > >I encourage everyone to add other games that they think are
commonly
> > >overrated.
> >