Question about the zork games
The Big Creep
other zork games come in?
Where does it start and where does it end?
Can someone provide a list of all the zork games? Beginning with the
start of the series to the very end of the series?
Thanks.
Andrew Plotkin
Are you asking in order of publication or internal chronology?
After Zork 1/2/3, Infocom published the trilogy Enchanter, Sorcerer,
and Spellbreaker. These take place in the same world, but have a
different protagonist. Then they released Beyond Zork (which occurs
later) and Zork Zero (which occurs much earlier than Zork 1).
Wishbringer is also set in the same world, although the story is not
connected to any of the others.
(Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
connected to the Zork universe.)
After that, Infocom didn't exist. Activision published the three recent
graphical games: Return to Zork, Zork Nemesis, and Zork Grand
Inquisitor. (Only RTZ had the Infocom label.) I can't tell you offhand
where these fall in the chronology, but there's a timeline... let me
see... <http://quendor.robinlionheart.com/chronology>
Finally, there's Zork Undiscovered Underground, a short game designed
by two of the original Infocom people and released by Activision (as a
promo for ZGI). It takes place, um, just before ZGI, it looks like.
(Of course several of these games include time travel, and visits to
time periods outside their own scope. Which makes the timeline all the
more fun to read.)
There have been a handful of fan-written games in the Zork universe,
set in various eras, but I won't go into those.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
The Big Creep
> Are you asking in order of publication or internal chronology?
Both.
Knight37
news:d16ebafc.04051...@posting.google.com:
> Andrew Plotkin wrote:
>
>> Are you asking in order of publication or internal chronology?
>
> Both.
>
Umm he answered that way. His list is in publication order but he notes
where the chronology is different.
Allen Garvin
Thanks.
Lionheart's Chronology of Quendor is the definitive resource:
http://quendor.robinlionheart.com/
Allen Garvin
David Doty
Publication Order:
1. Zork I
2. Zork II
3. Zork III
4. Enchanter
5. Sorceror
6. Spellbreaker
7. Wishbringer
8. Beyond Zork
9. Zork Zero
10. Return to Zork
11. Zork Nemesis
12. Zork: The Undiscovered Underground
13. Zork Grand Inquisitor
9 is the last Infocom game.
Chronological:
Zork Zero
Zork Trilogy-Enchanter (roughly simultaneous)
Sorceror
Spellbreaker
Beyond Zork
Zork: The Undiscovered Underground
Zork: Grand Inquisitor
Wishbringer, Return to Zork, and Zork Nemesis are harder to place
definitively in the chronology. The web sites others have provided can
show you what others have speculated. I don't consider RTZ canon,
personally.
Dave Doty
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David Doty
38.119.71.33:
> Others have given this info, but I'll summarize into a simple list.
I forgot to add that I find the series most satisfying when played in
publication order, rather than chronological.
The Big Creep
> David Doty <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:Xns94E8D010530A5dsdoty@
> 38.119.71.33:
>
> > Others have given this info, but I'll summarize into a simple list.
>
> I forgot to add that I find the series most satisfying when played in
> publication order, rather than chronological.
>
Why?
James Marshall
>Why?
That wasn't me, but my offhand guess is because that's how the games were
designed. They were meant to be played in release order, not time line
chronological order.
--
. . . . -- James Marshall (ORI) * ,
,. -- )-- , , . -- )-- , mars...@astro.umd.edu
' ' http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall '''
"Astronomy is a dyslexic's nightmare." , *
Andrew Plotkin
When an author (or group of authors) creates a game (or book, movie,
whatever) they are thinking back to the works they've already written.
If the work is a sequel, they can reflect earlier events from
previous works; if the work is a prequel, they can foreshadow future
events from previous works.
But it's harder to reflect or foreshadow events that haven't been
written yet. Of course you *can*, because you're planning the overall
arc of the series. But the details haven't been written yet; so the
fit is broad and general. It never has that pinpoint everything-comes-
together accuracy.
It is also true that the author *expects* you to have played (read,
seen) the previously-published works. If you haven't, you'll miss
those references. (Until you get to the other work. But then you're
getting the reference ass-backwards. It probably won't work as well,
dramatically.)
In nearly every case, I find, the series works best if you take it in
the order it was created.
David Doty
> Why?
Others have already said what I would have said, and Andrew Plotkin in
particular said it better, so I'll just echo that these posts were exactly
what I had in mind.
*Regardless* of what reading order C.S. Lewis tried to impose on us for the
Narnia books.
Nord_and_Bert
>
> (Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
> connected to the Zork universe.)
Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
David Doty
news:a9ffe7a9.04051...@posting.google.com:
> Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
> were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
> they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
I'm sure he means the references to grues (also, in Starcross, rat-ants.)
Andrew Plotkin
There were grues in the "zoo" area in Starcross.
There is no direct link in Planetfall (that I recall) -- but Floyd
knows the story of Starcross, indicating that it's a historic event.
Richard Bos
> In rec.games.int-fiction, Nord_and_Bert <sock...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message news:<c7rslh$3cj$1...@reader2.panix.com>...
> > >
> > > (Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
> > > connected to the Zork universe.)
> >
> > Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
> > were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
> > they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
>
> There were grues in the "zoo" area in Starcross.
>
> There is no direct link in Planetfall (that I recall) -- but Floyd
> knows the story of Starcross, indicating that it's a historic event.
In the material that comes with the Zork Anthology bonus version of
Planetfall, there are references to a space port called Accardi-3,
Double Fanucci, and Bozbar - albeit as a month name. I don't know how
much of this was in the original package.
Richard
Nathan
> In rec.games.int-fiction, Nord_and_Bert <sock...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message news:<c7rslh$3cj$1...@reader2.panix.com>...
> > >
> > > (Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
> > > connected to the Zork universe.)
> >
> > Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
> > were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
> > they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
>
> There were grues in the "zoo" area in Starcross.
>
> There is no direct link in Planetfall (that I recall) -- but Floyd
> knows the story of Starcross, indicating that it's a historic event.
The descriptions of the mutants are suggestive of a link, as well.
Mark J. Tilford
> In rec.games.int-fiction, Nord_and_Bert <sock...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message news:<c7rslh$3cj$1...@reader2.panix.com>...
>> >
>> > (Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
>> > connected to the Zork universe.)
>>
>> Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
>> were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
>> they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
>
> There were grues in the "zoo" area in Starcross.
>
> There is no direct link in Planetfall (that I recall) -- but Floyd
> knows the story of Starcross, indicating that it's a historic event.
I think one of the creatures in the bio-lab had similarities to a grue.
--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
til...@ugcs.caltech.edu
J. Robinson Wheeler
> > > (Starcross, Planetfall, and Stationfall are even more tenuously
> > > connected to the Zork universe.)
> >
> > Can you elaborate? I've played all and had no idea that those three
> > were even in any way linked to the Zork universe...in what way were
> > they linked? (Not doubting you, just aghast at my own ignorance :)
>
> There were grues in the "zoo" area in Starcross.
>
> There is no direct link in Planetfall (that I recall) -- but Floyd
> knows the story of Starcross, indicating that it's a historic event.
Oh, I thought you just meant grues were mentioned in all three
games. I played Planetfall recently, and don't recall if it made
reference to them in the dark areas, but Stationfall (which I am
playing right now) definitely says "You hope there aren't any
grues on this station." when you go into rooms without light.
--
J. Robinson Wheeler Games - http://raddial.com/if/
JRW Digital Media Movie - http://thekroneexperiment.com
j...@jrwdigitalmedia.com Comic - http://adamcadre.ac/comics.html
at
6+ weeks later :)....
I just acquired the 3 Activision releases, and the timeline packaged
with ZGI puts the Zork Nemesis story contemporary with the original Zork
trio (the Nemesis quest is solved in 949 GUE, just one year after the
Zork I quest). I don't know the RTZ plot well enough to see any clear
indicators on this timeline.
I literally just tried these games this week, and so far ZGI "feels"
like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do not.
Nemesis has plenty of atmosphere, but it's not the kind of atmosphere
Infocom ever created. I haven't gotten very far in any of these games
yet, though. Early ZGI puzzles seems a bit easier than the others
games. (i.e. I have managed to solve them all so far :->), but I'm
currently stumped in RTZ/ZN.
Asa
Paul Drallos
>
...
>
> I literally just tried these games this week, and so far ZGI "feels"
> like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do not.
I strongly disagree with this statement with regard to RTZ.
John W. Kennedy
> I just acquired the 3 Activision releases, and the timeline packaged
> with ZGI puts the Zork Nemesis story contemporary with the original Zork
> trio (the Nemesis quest is solved in 949 GUE, just one year after the
> Zork I quest). I don't know the RTZ plot well enough to see any clear
> indicators on this timeline.
As far as it goes, RTZ takes place long after all the others.
--
John W. Kennedy
"You can, if you wish, class all science-fiction together; but it is
about as perceptive as classing the works of Ballantyne, Conrad and W.
W. Jacobs together as the 'sea-story' and then criticizing _that_."
-- C. S. Lewis. "An Experiment in Criticism"
Tom McEwan
"John W. Kennedy" <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:654Gc.21477$kz.40...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> at wrote:
> > I just acquired the 3 Activision releases, and the timeline packaged
> > with ZGI puts the Zork Nemesis story contemporary with the original Zork
> > trio (the Nemesis quest is solved in 949 GUE, just one year after the
> > Zork I quest). I don't know the RTZ plot well enough to see any clear
> > indicators on this timeline.
>
> As far as it goes, RTZ takes place long after all the others.
About 580 years after Grand Inquisitor, to be exact - according to the
timeline poster boxed with GI, GI takes place in 1067 GUE. If you read the
sweepstakes letter at the beginning of the RTZ manual, it's dated 1647 GUE.
I think the Great Diffusion, which is the historic event that makes the
events in RTZ possible, is 1247, dunno if any of the games cover this period
though. The year nn47 seems to be a popular one among designers of the Zork
games - I wonder why.
There's a reference to RTZ in the "time chair" room in Nemesis, actually -
one of the paintings is a picture of the first scene in RTZ, and its caption
is "The Futurelithic Age". I think maybe they planned to integrate RTZ into
Nemesis so you could access it by spinning the chair enough, a bit like what
CD versions of DOTT did with Maniac Mansion, but never got round to it.
Looking back at this post, I have rapidly come to the conclusion that I have
way too much free time at the moment!
Tom
Edo
> ZGI "feels"
> like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do
> not. Nemesis has plenty of atmosphere, but it's not the kind of
> atmosphere Infocom ever created.
I agree. I think Nemesis is a wonderfully creepy game, but it's
basically an almost Myst-like puzzlefest without the classic Zork
humour. Many of the locations feel generic (for example, there is a
fly-by of the great dam, but it fails to look quite as special as it
ought to), although I remember the polar madhouse or whatever that place
is where you have to do unspeakable things to dead bodies as the
scariest thing on my computer screen since The Lurking Horror.
ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined the
GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat. I played it
through twice, once with a friend. We both have fond memories of the
long nights laughing and wondering at what was going on on the screen.
"Sure, try the whole inventory - Something's gotta work!"
"Rezrov!"
"Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic. Shun everything, and then
shun shunning."
"I am the boss of you. I am the boss of you!"
Classic.
Edo
--
"Violence is the repartee of the illiterate."
-- Alan Brien
Andrew Plotkin
>
> ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined the
> GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat.
It felt to me like an imitation.
Edo
> In rec.games.int-fiction, Edo <inv...@example.com> wrote:
> >
> > ZGI, however, to me looks, feels and sounds just the way I imagined
> > the GUE and its remnants to do. It's deliciously off-beat.
>
> It felt to me like an imitation.
Interesting point. There was definitely something 'meta' going on in
that game, what with the newsreel footage at the beginning and all, but
I am rather partial to that sort of thing myself. I love pastiche and
'breaking through the fourth wall' as drama people like to put it, and
that aspect of ZGI is one I particularly liked.(*)
You could arGUE (sorry - stoned) that imitation is the highest form of
flattery and I like to think of ZGI as an hommage, put together with
something in the way of taste and care.
But you're certainly entitled to your own opinions, of course. ;)
Edo
(*) I also adore the multilayered meta/fourth-wall jokes in 'Monkey
Island 2'.
Asa Rossoff
>
>
> About 580 years after Grand Inquisitor, to be exact - according to the
> timeline poster boxed with GI, GI takes place in 1067 GUE. If you read the
> sweepstakes letter at the beginning of the RTZ manual, it's dated 1647 GUE.
> I think the Great Diffusion, which is the historic event that makes the
> events in RTZ possible, is 1247, dunno if any of the games cover this period
> though. The year nn47 seems to be a popular one among designers of the Zork
> games - I wonder why.
>
> There's a reference to RTZ in the "time chair" room in Nemesis, actually -
> one of the paintings is a picture of the first scene in RTZ, and its caption
> is "The Futurelithic Age". I think maybe they planned to integrate RTZ into
> Nemesis so you could access it by spinning the chair enough, a bit like what
> CD versions of DOTT did with Maniac Mansion, but never got round to it.
>
> Looking back at this post, I have rapidly come to the conclusion that I have
> way too much free time at the moment!
At least you realized it at top efficiency!
Your comments were very educational :)
Asa
David Doty
news:10eh7iq...@corp.supernews.com:
> 6+ weeks later :)....
Well then, it's fair for me to bring it back a couple of weeks later
again, then, right?
> I literally just tried these games this week, and so far ZGI "feels"
> like Zork and the Enchanter series, and the other two definitely do
> not.
> Nemesis has plenty of atmosphere, but it's not the kind of
> atmosphere
> Infocom ever created.
I tend to disagree wrt Nemesis. It doesn't have the same feel as most
of the games, and the attempts to wedge it into the continuity are very
forced, but it very much captured the atmosphere I got from playing Zork
I all those... wince.... decades ago. But then, I felt like the later
games betrayed the tone of the original to a degree.
I always pictured Zork I as huge, empty, still and beautiful. An
abandoned world full of decaying grandeur, just like most of the
locations in Nemesis. A mixture of fantasy and SF/contemporary
elements, with the fantasy being the main setting, but certain areas
letting another be dominant, like Nemesis. A mostly still and sombre
game, with a good deal of humor cut in, like Nemesis. (There's very
little humor in the main area, but a good amount in many of the
sub-worlds.)
Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
every passing game.) Maybe I'm just so attached to this view that I
still see it even when I play Zork I today. Maybe it's more accurate to
say that the atmosphere and tone of Nemesis is what I always wanted Zork
to be.
Whatever the case, it's very Zorkish to me.
As for RTZ, I think it fits the Zork series well, in a certain insulting
way. With the last few infocom games, each seemed to get a little
cheesier, and a little less enjoyable. Zork Zero balanced on the knife
edge, for me, of how cheesy the games could get without being
unenjoyable. I think the problems with RTZ are simply the problems that
had been growing with the series anyway, taken to the next step and
combined with primitive graphic problems (although the primitive
graphics problem had been growing in the last couple of Infocom games,
so maybe that is in line too.)
Anyway, my $0.02
Dave Doty
Murray Peterson
> [snip]
> Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
> seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
> yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
> every passing game.) Maybe I'm just so attached to this view that I
> still see it even when I play Zork I today. Maybe it's more accurate to
> say that the atmosphere and tone of Nemesis is what I always wanted Zork
> to be.
Your post is nicely highlights the differences in people's opinions about a
game. We all take out of a game those things that we want, and gloss over,
ignore, or don't even see a facet that others consider to be fundamental.
Makes me glad I am not a game designer :-)
Discworld Noir is another game that evokes this type of alternate view of
the underlying world. Is Pratchett's discworld a dark and gloomy place?
Or is it funny and lighthearted. I find it to be both, so I enjoyed all of
the Discworld games, and I enjoyed the two viewpoints.
--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_...@shaw.ca (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
David Adrien Tanguay
> Maybe my view of Zork I is colored by my young desire to take it
> seriously as a game, so I didn't see it as the completely unserious
> yok-fest so many others did (and that it got to be more strongly with
> every passing game.)
Did you read the accompanying material before the game? At all? Did you
have anybody telling you what the game was like before you played it?
My impression of the original Zork (or trilogy) is not far off yours, and
I didn't read the hardcopy until after playing it. I wonder if that
colours the player's perception of the game text. I also found Nemesis
to be the funniest of all the Zork games I've played (missing Beyond and
Zero), so maybe it's just a matter of what strikes your funny bone.
Like Murray's comments about Discworld, I saw both gritty and silly,
heavy and light aspects in the original Zork, so all of the graphical
Zorks felt Zorkish enough to me.
--
David Tanguay http://www.sentex.ca/~datanguayh/
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada [43.24N 80.29W]
David Doty
news:40f4...@news.sentex.net:
> Did you read the accompanying material before the game? At all? Did you
> have anybody telling you what the game was like before you played it?
Nope. Somebody just plunked me down in front of a screen, and away I went.
You're right, the documentation might have changed how I viewed the game.
Wasn't it actually created later? Maybe Infocom's own view of the Zork
games had changed between writing it (or adapting it from the mainframe
version) and writing the documentation.
Dave Doty