Andrew was indeed right-- blurry background on GTA4; draw distance hardware limits....
John Lewis
>Oh dear, my eyes are hurting, and not in a good "wow, this is the best
>game ever and I have been playing it all day" kind of way.
>
>I guess in order to keep the frame rate up on the 360 (I presume the
>PS3 is the same), they have made all the textures further than about
>50 yards really blurry and it is horrible to look at :-(
>
>I have played it for about 3 hours today and I haven't been gripped by
>the storyline yet and it doesn't seem to have the sense of humour and
>fun of its predecessors.
>
>I expect in time I will get into it, but the graphics are genuinely
>bothering me and I can't believe they weren't mentioned in reviews.
Well, it appears that Andrew's comments were spot-on:-
From Anand's early-impressions of GTA4, published today:-
(see:-
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3297
for the complete text.)
-----------------------------
"The graphics of GTA4 fall short in two areas: draw distance and
animation. The draw distance issues are pretty annoying; while the
game looks great in close quarters, look off into the distance and
you're met with a sea of blurry. It's like the cameraman just
discovered depth of field and went nuts with it. I get that there are
technical limitations that mean we can't have infinite draw distance,
I just want to point out the blemish"
-----------------------------
Also Anand's thoughtful perceptions about the importance of good
animation in a game and the hardware contributions still necessary
to achieve that objective.
"Just as a good story in a movie can be ruined by bad acting, a good
story in a game can be ruined by poor, or un-lifelike animation. The
problem is that we're not quite at a stage in both the CPU and GPU
space, where we can apply lifelike animations to many highly detailed
characters, in complex worlds, in real time. GTA4 comes closer to
reality than any other previous GTA, but we still have a long way to
go. Facial expressions, body movements, environmental interactions,
etc... are all no where near lifelike, and it's simply tough to
believe in a well written story if it's acted out in a choppy fashion.
The story in GTA4 isn't bad by any means, but I'll reserve complete
praise for when we've got the processing power to tell it in a way
that can truly rival a movie (and this is why we'll continue to need
faster CPUs and faster GPUs, we're no where near done folks). "
( Hmm, with respect to the subject of animation realism and fluidity,
I wonder if Anand has seen Assassin's Creed on the PC. Maybe Ubisoft
and Rockstar should get together on the port of GTA4 to the PC... if
it ever happens ...)
-------------------------------
And finally from Anand:-
"And I can't help but ask, where's the PC version? I get that consoles
are far better sales platforms these days, but if we view the creators
of a game like GTA4 as artists, then they should want their art on the
best possible canvas. The draw distance and graphics issues could be
alleviated (although probably not solved completely) on a PC; sure it
would take a very high end PC to deliver the perfect experience, but
with new and more powerful GPUs coming out every 6 - 12 months, the
chances for making GTA4 look beautiful on a PC are pretty good."
" In short, Grand Theft Auto 4 is an addicting game, fans of the
series won't be disappointed but there's little chance that someone
who hated the previous games will fall in love with this one. It's not
what I would call perfect, but it's a decent evolutionary installment
of an already good franchise. "
==================================================
The fact that the PC version is unlikely to arrive before Christmas
2008 ( if it comes at all...) may be a great blessing in disguise.
For two reasons:-
(a) the usual bug-fixes and game-play balance tweaks found to be
necessary after the mass-audience have had their say.
(b). The accelerating evolution of PC hardware. I would think that
Rockstar might well take the opportunity to tweak the game and its
controls to show off what they can really do without the console
limitations. After all, there will be the precedence of games like
Assassin's Creed, Age of Conan and Crysis to show how animation (and
depth of field) can be done on modern PC hardware. Plus a revamped
GTA4 would be a showcase for what might be in store for GTA5. By the
time GTA5 arrives, the next-gen consoles will be emerging. For
example, regardless of Microsoft's repeated denials, the Xbox720 has
to be here before Christmas 2009. Mandatory integration of Blu-ray for
both movies and games cannot be deferred any longer or Microsoft's
declared ambition of the Xbox360 "family" being the
media/entertainment hub of the living room will fade into oblivion.
Footnote:-
For a comparison of GTA4 images on the two consoles, see:-
http://news.filefront.com/video-comparison-of-gta-iv-xbox-360-vs-playstation-3/
The PS3 looks a lot better than the Xbox360 in this clip. Note the
Xbox360 aliasing jaggies on the chrome surround of the car back window
for just one obvious example. And the Xbox360 background does look
more washed-out than the PS3.
John Lewis
JLC
> I wonder if Anand has seen Assassin's Creed on the PC. Maybe Ubisoft
> and Rockstar should get together on the port of GTA4 to the PC... if
> it ever happens ...)
Yes Anandtech has seen and reviewed Assassins Creed. They have a long list
of complaints about it. If I want game reviews I don't go to Anandtech. Let
them stick to hardware, something they know something about. JLC
Bob Loblaw
"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
news:zbOdnZW2-7oMqYTV...@comcast.com...
Schrodinger
"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
news:zbOdnZW2-7oMqYTV...@comcast.com...
I find the graphics on Assassin's Creed to be disappointing. I wonder if
some of it is a driver issue, but at 1680x1050 with everything on max or
high, I still see jaggies and the graphics lack "oomph". Gameplay wise,
it's also a little repetitive to say the least. And the plot is rubbish.
And it's annoying the Hell out of me that Altair can't seem to stand up
straight. And you can't miss cut scenes. And it takes, like, 10 minutes to
exit the game. It's not bad, but not brilliant.
Flo 'Irian' Schaetz
> And it takes, like, 10 minutes to
> exit the game. It's not bad, but not brilliant.
Strange. It takes aprox. 2-3 seconds for me.
Flo
Schrodinger
"Flo 'Irian' Schaetz" <ir...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:48198414$0$7540$9b4e...@newsspool1.arcor-online.net...
Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
If in the middle of a mission or whatever, I press escape, then exit memory
or whatever. Then it takes me back to the sliding glass thing, press escape
again. Exit memory. Back to first screen, log back into my name, then
select "Quit game". I saw this mentioned as an issue to be fixed in the
next patch.
Flo 'Irian' Schaetz
> Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
Try Alt+F4.
Flo
Sheldon England
>
> JLC wrote:
>
> > Yes Anandtech has seen and reviewed Assassins Creed.
>
He slayed Assassin's Creed quite a while ago.
Or were you referring to the new GTA game?
- Sheldon
Schrodinger
D'OH!
Mr. Stabby
distant graphics are a blurry, not much better than San Andreas. The
shadows are a bit fuzzy and blocky too. But it's still a hugely
impressive game, there is so much STUFF just everywhere, and it's
carefully crafted. People walking around talking on cell phones,
carrying drinks or umbrellas, leaning up against a wall, working on
their car. There are differing light conditions throughout the day,
sometimes when it's cloudy the city is just dingy looking, and when it
rains the streets have a really nice shiny bumpmap. At night all the
lights are spectacular, and distant city looks much nicer.
I haven't noticed much popup at all on my PS3, it's much better than
previous versions.
I've put in about 15 hours so far. :D
Bob Loblaw
"Sheldon England" <sheldon...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:4819F636...@netscape.net...
I was referring to GTA4. Is it out in Australia?
Werner Spahl
another case where a big franchise gets good ratings based on hype :(.
--
Werner Spahl (sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
turk
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.08...@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
Why do I get the distinct impression that neither you nor Mr. Lewis own
either a 360 or PS3?
turk
--
"You know one thing I've learned, is it's easier to tear a country down than
it is to rebuild a country," GW Feb. 21, 2008
Mr. Stabby
> Reading this and then looking at the perfect scores I would say this is
> another case where a big franchise gets good ratings based on hype :(.
>
It's a great game. GTA IV tries to do 100 different things and
succeeds in most of them. Maybe it's not a 10, but it's a good solid
9.
Justisaur
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:23:32 +0100, Andrew <spamt...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> "And I can't help but ask, where's the PC version? I get that consoles
> are far better sales platforms these days, but if we view the creators
> of a game like GTA4 as artists, then they should want their art on the
> best possible canvas. The draw distance and graphics issues could be
> alleviated (although probably not solved completely) on a PC; sure it
> would take a very high end PC to deliver the perfect experience, but
> with new and more powerful GPUs coming out every 6 - 12 months, the
> chances for making GTA4 look beautiful on a PC are pretty good."
>
> " In short, Grand Theft Auto 4 is an addicting game, fans of the
> series won't be disappointed but there's little chance that someone
> who hated the previous games will fall in love with this one. It's not
> what I would call perfect, but it's a decent evolutionary installment
> of an already good franchise. "
> ==================================================
>
> The fact that the PC version is unlikely to arrive before Christmas
> 2008 ( if it comes at all...) may be a great blessing in disguise.
> For two reasons:-
>
Damn it. I was banking on being able to play the PC version :(
I might have to break down and buy one of those 'next gen' console
thingys.
- Justisaur
Les Steel
Have just played this tonight on the 360 at my friends house. What a
fucking shambles, I need to take some video footage of the atrocious
texture pop in. I was stuck against an invisible wall for nearly 20
seconds before it "popped" in.
They need to fix this before they release the PC version.
Why has no one menioned the car handling yet? If cars handled as badly
as the GTA cars they would never get passed an ncap ratng. Nearly every
car I tried has a 45 degree roll even at low speeds!
--
Les
JLC
"Les Steel" <a...@aolnot.com> wrote in message
news:fvg4tn$sgo$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> Have just played this tonight on the 360 at my friends house. What a
> fucking shambles, I need to take some video footage of the atrocious
> texture pop in. I was stuck against an invisible wall for nearly 20
> seconds before it "popped" in.
>
> They need to fix this before they release the PC version.
>
> Why has no one menioned the car handling yet? If cars handled as badly as
> the GTA cars they would never get passed an ncap ratng. Nearly every car I
> tried has a 45 degree roll even at low speeds!
>
> --
> Les
Just got this month EGM and they gave it A+ A+ A!! I read through the whole
review (which was huge) and not one word negative about how the game looks
or how the cars handle. It was all so over the top hype I was shaking my
head in disbelief. Now I realize EGM aren't the best game reviewers around,
but they can be pretty hard on a game if they don't like it. A+!! I'm really
thinking that all print mags are selling out now just so they can stay in
business. I remember the days when EGM was over 300 pages. Now it's a thin
mag with a whole lot less going on. JLC
Andrew
>Just got this month EGM and they gave it A+ A+ A!! I read through the whole
>review (which was huge) and not one word negative about how the game looks
>or how the cars handle. It was all so over the top hype I was shaking my
>head in disbelief. Now I realize EGM aren't the best game reviewers around,
>but they can be pretty hard on a game if they don't like it. A+!! I'm really
>thinking that all print mags are selling out now just so they can stay in
>business. I remember the days when EGM was over 300 pages. Now it's a thin
>mag with a whole lot less going on. JLC
I think the problem with reviewing a GTA game is that since GTA3,
these games have been so far ahead of any other games in the scope of
what they achieve that really they need their own scoring system.
Compared to any other non GTA game, GTA4 is probably deserving of 100%
reviews, but when you start comparing it to other GTA's that had some
bits done better and were definitely more fun, then the reviews should
drop.
--
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
John Lewis
>
>Why has no one menioned the car handling yet? If cars handled as badly
>as the GTA cars they would never get passed an ncap ratng. Nearly every
>car I tried has a 45 degree roll even at low speeds!
>
Didn't all American cars do this before the Japanese and Germans
showed them how to build a proper car suspension system?? Seems
genuine for the time-period depicted.....
John Lewis
>--
>Les
John Lewis
>"Werner Spahl" <sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
>news:Pine.LNX.4.64.08...@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
>> Reading this and then looking at the perfect scores I would say this is
>> another case where a big franchise gets good ratings based on hype :(.
>>
>> --
>> Werner Spahl (sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
>> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
>
>Why do I get the distinct impression that neither you nor Mr. Lewis own
>either a 360 or PS3?
>
For me, no need. Total waste of money!! I have a X2 4400+ system (o/c
to 2.6GHZ) that I built 2.5 years ago for ~ $1300 (inc. XP Pro). I use
the machine for both professional desktop video and high-end gaming.
My video work has covered the cost of the machine+software MANY times
over. I have added a couple of large hard-disks for video storage, but
the only real 'upgrade' was ~ $250 for a 8800GT. Plays all games
perfectly, even Crysis at near max graphics. I use 1280x960 x85Hz for
gaming. Hign-res CRT monitor of course. The color depth/accuracy of a
CRT monitor is necessary for my video work anyway and for any
still-photo processing that I do.
John Lewis
Anssi Saari
> Why has no one menioned the car handling yet? If cars handled as badly
> as the GTA cars they would never get passed an ncap ratng. Nearly
> every car I tried has a 45 degree roll even at low speeds!
Yes, but the roll doesn't seem to matter, cars don't flip over easily.
I don't much like the car handling either. It should be fun and fairly
easy in a game like this, but this feels like extreme understeer. Kind
of like driving a car in winter conditions with lousy tires. You can
change the car's orientation, but not direction...
Thankfully, the chase missions I've done so far haven't required
anything like fast driving. In fact, I seem to have noticed rather
extreme rubberbanding.
Andrew
>Yes, but the roll doesn't seem to matter, cars don't flip over easily.
>I don't much like the car handling either. It should be fun and fairly
>easy in a game like this, but this feels like extreme understeer. Kind
>of like driving a car in winter conditions with lousy tires. You can
>change the car's orientation, but not direction...
The handling isn't a lot different to the other GTA games, but there
is definitely a lot more understeer which can be annoying.
>Thankfully, the chase missions I've done so far haven't required
>anything like fast driving. In fact, I seem to have noticed rather
>extreme rubberbanding.
It is mainly when I am trying to evade the police that the understeer
and laggy camera annoys me. The hood view would be good, but it makes
me sick!
turk
news:481d4aae...@news.verizon.net...
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 07:57:27 -0500, "turk" <tur...@noway.nohow> wrote:
>
>>"Werner Spahl" <sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
>>news:Pine.LNX.4.64.08...@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
>>> Reading this and then looking at the perfect scores I would say this is
>>> another case where a big franchise gets good ratings based on hype :(.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Werner Spahl (sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
>>> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
>>
>>Why do I get the distinct impression that neither you nor Mr. Lewis own
>>either a 360 or PS3?
>>
>
> For me, no need. Total waste of money!! I have a X2 4400+ system (o/c
> to 2.6GHZ) that I built 2.5 years ago for ~ $1300 (inc. XP Pro). I use
> the machine for both professional desktop video and high-end gaming.
> My video work has covered the cost of the machine+software MANY times
> over. I have added a couple of large hard-disks for video storage, but
> the only real 'upgrade' was ~ $250 for a 8800GT. Plays all games
> perfectly, even Crysis at near max graphics. I use 1280x960 x85Hz for
> gaming. Hign-res CRT monitor of course. The color depth/accuracy of a
> CRT monitor is necessary for my video work anyway and for any
> still-photo processing that I do.
Nice justification. Get a job. That's easier.