DN3D thoughts was Re: Duke Nukem 3D on a 486/33
Luis Lourenco Lopes
>>Yeah, I know, minimum setup is a 486/66 with 8 MB RAM. But I have a 486/33,
>>8 MB RAM, and whatever video card Gateways came with two-and-a-half years
>>ago (I think it's a Western Digital).
>>And it works! It's not even unplayably slow! It's not blazing or anything,
>>but it plays well. And I even have it on high detail and shadows and stuff.
>Jeeze, what are you smoking?? :) Personally, I have a 486DX2/66 with a
>Local Bus Cirrus Video Card. Now, it ran GREAT on a lot of games, but
>Mechwarrior and Duke 3D are two examples of games that are absolutely
>unplayable on my computer. I don't understand, 320x200, low resolution,
>shadows and the other crap turned off, and I have to shrink the box to
>almost as small as it will go to even be able to move around half way
>decently.
Same to me.
i486DX2 - 66MHz
8MB RAM
Speedstar pro ISA (Cirrus chipset)
BOOT Clean/shift DOSv6.22
Shadows off
Low resolution
320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa 2.0)
Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
In the easier mode for less monsters
Using the code RATE In the last level the numbers on the upper left corner
are 0 to 3 and 0, most of the time is 1 frame per second, it's UNPLAYABLE!,
I've even saw -1!!!
I don't understand, I've played the other recent game demos using the BUILD
engine, Whithave, Tekwar, Powerslave, also played the demo from Cybermage and
GREED not to mension FUTURE SHOCK, and I've not seen this, ok that my computer
is slow for todays games, but I could play all the above with lots of
patience, in DN3D no way, it's impossible to play!, and it's more strange
because it cames from Apogee, a publisher who is upposed to make games for a
wider market, than others like Origin.
I will not compare DN3D with DOOM, because id is unbeatable, but let me tell
you that I recall playing the
historical/classical/awesome/marvelous/Materpiece shareware version v1.0 of
DOOM in my 386sx - 25MHz back in 12/93 and it run very well, so the least that
we should expect from Apogee/3dRealms has that DN3D run in a 486DX2 with the
same frame rate that DOOM run in a 386sx, even if we all know that the rest is
impossible to acomplish by them...
Beside all this I think 3DRealms made a good effort in a id/clone game that
equals the quality or better of Dark Forces and gets near T:FS.
**The Masters
1- DOOM
Wolfenstein 3-D
Catacomb 3-D
**The best student
5 - Terminator: Future Shock
**The good students
6 - Duke Nukem 3-D
Dark Forces
**Failed students
9 - All the rest crappy/suck games that trie to copy id model to get some
bucks... (email me for list :-)))))
LLL < l...@individual.puug.pt >
Another 'The best' pwads list < individual.puug.pt/~lll/abwadind.htm >
Brian
l...@individual.puug.pt (Luis Lourenco Lopes) wrote:
>bf...@cleveland.freenet.edu (Bryan Murphy) wrote:
>
>>>Yeah, I know, minimum setup is a 486/66 with 8 MB RAM. But I have a
486/33,
>>>8 MB RAM, and whatever video card Gateways came with two-and-a-half years
>>>ago (I think it's a Western Digital).
>>>And it works! It's not even unplayably slow! It's not blazing or
anything,
>>>but it plays well. And I even have it on high detail and shadows and
stuff.
>
>>Jeeze, what are you smoking?? :) Personally, I have a 486DX2/66 with a
>>Local Bus Cirrus Video Card. Now, it ran GREAT on a lot of games, but
>>Mechwarrior and Duke 3D are two examples of games that are absolutely
>>unplayable on my computer. I don't understand, 320x200, low resolution,
>>shadows and the other crap turned off, and I have to shrink the box to
>>almost as small as it will go to even be able to move around half way
>>decently.
>
a dx2-66 with 12 megs of ram and it runs quite smoothly in 320-200, even over
the modem.
Mark Kundinger
Hey guys, I've already seen about 5 messages regarding Duke Dukem 3D
and Cirrus Logic video cards.
One thing I'd strongly recommend: TRY UNIVBE!
at http://www.scitechsoft.com
Before I used it, Duke was slightly painful at VGA 320x200. (I have
a 486-66 w/ a VLB Orchid Kelvin 64). AFTER I got UniVBE to work, I was able
to run it FASTER at 320x400! That's not impressive compared to a Pentium,
but I figure it at least doubled my Duke3d frame rate.
BUT:
You might have a problem initially getting low-res VESA modes (like
Duke's 320x200 and 320x400) to work, but this problem apparantly occurs
frequently.
Run the program that allows you to set the refresh rates for your
card. It's called CLMODE on a lot of Cirrus Logics, KSCAN on Orchid Kelvins,
for instance. Check the refresh rate the card uses a@ 640x480 resolution.
If this is at or near 70Hz, change it down to 60Hz. I did and it fixed my
problem.
Definitely worth a shot for the potential performance boost.
Hope this helps someone,
Mark
-----------------------------------------------------------
Windows 95: from the same people who brought you EDLIN!
m...@owlnet.rice.edu
Jeffrey Edward Buckland
: Same to me.
: i486DX2 - 66MHz
: 8MB RAM
: Speedstar pro ISA (Cirrus chipset)
: BOOT Clean/shift DOSv6.22
: Shadows off
: Low resolution
: 320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa 2.0)
: Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
: With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
: In the easier mode for less monsters
: Using the code RATE In the last level the numbers on the upper left corner
: are 0 to 3 and 0, most of the time is 1 frame per second, it's UNPLAYABLE!,
: I've even saw -1!!!
Something wrong with your system. I'm on a 486/33 with 8MB and an ISA
bus and video card, and with those same game options (except I usually have
the screen size to NEARLY max - about 3 down from max), I usually get 5-10 fps
in most places. Sometimes it drops to 2 or 3 when there are a bunch of
enemies on the screen.
: is slow for todays games, but I could play all the above with lots of
: patience, in DN3D no way, it's impossible to play!, and it's more strange
: because it cames from Apogee, a publisher who is upposed to make games for a
: wider market, than others like Origin.
Methinks you are letting your opinion of the quality of the game cloud
your mind about its overall speed. The game is NOT slow. That's a fact. Your
system has a problem. Mine plays it, on a slower machine than yours, much faster
than what you say. And I'm having a lot of fun with the game...
: historical/classical/awesome/marvelous/Materpiece shareware version v1.0 of
: DOOM in my 386sx - 25MHz back in 12/93 and it run very well, so the least that
: we should expect from Apogee/3dRealms has that DN3D run in a 486DX2 with the
: same frame rate that DOOM run in a 386sx, even if we all know that the rest is
: impossible to acomplish by them...
I'll bet you your 386/25 back then couldn't play DOOM as fast as my
486/33 is playing DN3D right now.
: Beside all this I think 3DRealms made a good effort in a id/clone game that
: equals the quality or better of Dark Forces and gets near T:FS.
But you're right. DOOM still rules. It was first, it was best, and
it's still tons of fun.
--
Jeff
_,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,_,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,_,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,_
/ Jeff Buckland - Texas A&M University - jeb...@tamaix.tamu.edu \
| "don't open your eyes you won't like what you see |
\ the blind have been blessed with security" - Trent Reznor, NIN /
\ http://http/tamu.edu:8000/~jeb5708 /
^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,_,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,_,.-=~'`^`'~=-.,__,.-=~'^
Roger Cowley
Pentium, because its excellent. But, of more interest is the
performance on my trusty old, internet connected, typing on now,
486dx50. This is no dx2, a real dx50. Its got a crappy Trident Video
card(8900C, I believe), and an SB16. Lo and behold, I get about 9fps
at 320x200 with shadows, high detail, sounds, music,
tilting...whatever. How much RAM you say? 16mb, and therein lies the
difference I guess. That kind of performance is totally acceptible on
my machine(9fps is an avg, it's usually 10 or 11, but in some long,
crowded rooms it drops to around 5).
So, if you've got enough RAM, the game runs great...I'd have to say
this is similar performance to descent.
Also commenting on DN3d on my 486. This game looks better than any
other 320x200 shooter I've ever seen! How'd they do that?(slightly
rhetorical).
Just remember, Duke Nukem 3D is *the best* dl out there right
now...and arguabely the best 3d shooter ever...but I won't open that
one quite yet.
Tony(from a weird account...)
H. van der Schaaf
>>>Jeeze, what are you smoking?? :) Personally, I have a 486DX2/66 with a
>>>Local Bus Cirrus Video Card. Now, it ran GREAT on a lot of games, but
>>>Mechwarrior and Duke 3D are two examples of games that are absolutely
>>>unplayable on my computer. I don't understand, 320x200, low resolution,
>>>shadows and the other crap turned off, and I have to shrink the box to
>>>almost as small as it will go to even be able to move around half way
>>>decently.
It is something with your setup, om my 486DX2/66 with 8mb it runs fine.
Also with a vesa 1mb Cirrus Video Card, In high detail 320x200 with
shadows.
Hylke
H. van der Schaaf
>Luis Lourenco Lopes (l...@individual.puug.pt) wrote:
>: Same to me.
>: i486DX2 - 66MHz
>: 8MB RAM
>: Speedstar pro ISA (Cirrus chipset)
>: BOOT Clean/shift DOSv6.22
>: Shadows off
>: Low resolution
>: 320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa 2.0)
>: Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
>: With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
>: In the easier mode for less monsters
>: Using the code RATE In the last level the numbers on the upper left corner
>: are 0 to 3 and 0, most of the time is 1 frame per second, it's UNPLAYABLE!,
>: I've even saw -1!!!
>
Why a clean boot, try making a startup menu.
Try playing WITH HIMEM.SYS, press F8 at startup, when the message apears
"starting msdos" say 'y' to HIMEM.sys, 'N' to everything else
Hylke
Jeremy Riley
>>486/33, 8 MB RAM, and whatever video card Gateways came with two-and-a-half years
>>ago (I think it's a Western Digital). And it works! It's not even unplayably slow! It's not
>>blazing or anything, but it plays well. And I even have it on high detail and shadows and
>>stuff.
>>
>>>Local Bus Cirrus Video Card. Now, it ran GREAT on a lot of games, but
>>>Mechwarrior and Duke 3D are two examples of games that are absolutely
>>>unplayable on my computer. I don't understand, 320x200, low resolution,
>>>shadows and the other crap turned off, and I have to shrink the box to
>>>almost as small as it will go to even be able to move around half way
>>>decently.
>I would say there is something wrong with your computer. I have a friend with
>a dx2-66 with 12 megs of ram and it runs quite smoothly in 320-200, even over
>the modem.
I've heard of this sort of thing before. Need for Speed had this
effect . On some computers they could run it in hi res and it was
reasonably smooth - certainly playable anyway. On others it would
either not even enter that mode or be ridiculously jerky.
D3D on a 486 DX/100 * Mb RAm & an ISA 1Mb Cirrus card runs fine in
320x400.
Who knows...
Ryan Nakahara
: >>Jeeze, what are you smoking?? :) Personally, I have a 486DX2/66 with a
: >>Local Bus Cirrus Video Card. Now, it ran GREAT on a lot of games, but
: >>Mechwarrior and Duke 3D are two examples of games that are absolutely
: >>unplayable on my computer. I don't understand, 320x200, low resolution,
: >>shadows and the other crap turned off, and I have to shrink the box to
: >>almost as small as it will go to even be able to move around half way
: >>decently.
Well this depends... I have a 486dx2/66 10 megs and I found low res, shadows,
and everything else really doesnt make much of a difference as long as it's
320x200. The game will run great in most areas, probably as fast as doom,
but in certain areas it is very unplayable. There is one water area where
it's easy to run out of air, and only 2 squids attacking me, and I had less
than 1 frame per second. Nearly impossible to kill those squids...
-Qyv
Dave Glue
Lourenco Lopes) wrote:
>320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa 2.0)
>Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
>With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
Somethin' wierds going on here. Let's assume my DX4-120 is exactly
twice the speed of your DX2-66, which of course isn't so, but let's
assume. I get very smooth motion, full screen, in both 320*200 and
320*400- smooth as Doom on my old DX2/66. Getting 1-3 fps isn't your
DX2-66, it's probably a quick with your motherboard and the game.
Bladez
wrote:
I'm willing to bet he has some type of EMS memory manager loaded.
(EMM386 etc). I have a dx4/120 with an ISA video and I constantly get
over +17 frames with that rate option. I hit 30+ running against the
walls :)
Angelo v.d. Weerden
wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:23:18 GMT, l...@individual.puug.pt (Luis
>Lourenco Lopes) wrote:
>
>>320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa 2.0)
>>Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
>>With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
>
>Somethin' wierds going on here. Let's assume my DX4-120 is exactly
>twice the speed of your DX2-66, which of course isn't so, but let's
>assume. I get very smooth motion, full screen, in both 320*200 and
>320*400- smooth as Doom on my old DX2/66. Getting 1-3 fps isn't your
>DX2-66, it's probably a quick with your motherboard and the game.
>
On my DX4/120 i play in 640x480 and get 16 fps (fast enough and very
playable).
On my dx2/66 i set the video to 320x200 and every detail on, and it
is super fast.
ps: dx4/120 has 16 mb memory and the dx2/66 has 8, both in them are
the ET4000 w32/p videocards(one with 2mb and in the dx2/66 1mb)
Just to tell you that duke is the coolest game since Doom2.
grtx,
Angelo
Dark Guy
If you want to improve frame rates, nevemind about detail levels, shadows,
or screen size. Reduce your sound sampling quality. I found a drop from
16bit to 8bit mixing made a huge difference for my dx2-80. You might also
want to try dropping down from 11khz. I don't think you'll notice too much
of a difference in sound quality, unless you're playing through headphone..
Tommy.
>
Johnny Nugnug
>From: cow...@clam.rutgers.edu (Roger Cowley)
>Subject: Re: DN3D thoughts was Re: Duke Nukem 3D on a 486/33
>Date: 1 Feb 1996 15:07:12 -0500
>Tony(from a weird account...)
I have a 486 DX 2/66 w/8 megs RAM, a Mitac video card (VLB, 1 meg video RAM)
and DN3D runs smooth as silk while I'm running WIN95 as a multitasking task. I
don't understand why other people w/faster & better machines than mine are
having so much trouble. Weird.
"Whenever I'm feeling down I try to think about individuals who are less
fortunate than myself. If that doesn't work, I'll usually go and stalk
someone... just to make the voices go away."-- Earl, REDMEAT
William C Roeben, jnu...@nas.com
Yan Liu
dav...@interlog.com (Dave Glue) wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:23:18 GMT, l...@individual.puug.pt (Luis
>Lourenco Lopes) wrote:
>
>>320x200 normal mode (neither my bios neither UNIVBE supports 320x200 Vesa
2.0)
>>Sound and Music OFF!!!! (I have a Sound Blaster Pro 2)
>>With the screen size almost at minimum (Two up)
>
>Somethin' wierds going on here. Let's assume my DX4-120 is exactly
>twice the speed of your DX2-66, which of course isn't so, but let's
>assume. I get very smooth motion, full screen, in both 320*200 and
>320*400- smooth as Doom on my old DX2/66. Getting 1-3 fps isn't your
>DX2-66, it's probably a quick with your motherboard and the game.
>
Can you tell me what your performance in 640x480 is? I have a DX4-120 with
Hercules Stingray 64/Video 2meg DRAM, and the performance isn't very good.
THis is with all the details turned on.
my system again:
AMD 486 DX4-120 enhanced
24 meg RAM, 70ns.
Hercules Stingray 64/VIdeo (ark 2000 chipset) w/ 2 meg DRAM
a14088@a1_tl2
Hey, ist much more easy than that.
in the duke3d.cfg file change screenmode to "0" (chained vga)
and then the rez can be set as 320 x 240/270/300/360/400/480,
360 x 240/270/300/360/400/480 or 400 x 240/270/300/360/400/480.
no vesa req'd
The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views
and do not reflect the official views of Tele Danmark.