DOOML leaked Alpha version
Jay Wilbur
trying to stop their spread is like pissing on a forest fire. I cannot do it
alone.
I understand everyone's enthusiasm to see this game. I understand not wanting
to wait until we have a stable version that plays without crashing, chewing
gobs of memory, etc. All I can do is ask your assistance.
We work long and hard to produce the best and most accessible game around. We
charge nothing and expect nothing (except for a postcard with your name and
address on it) for the user who plays nothing more than episode one. We
maintain direct ties to active computer users (you folks) and like to think we
interact not as company providing product support (although it does look like
that), but more like computer users talking to computer users about things we
have in common.
Friends, we would like to release a game we are proud of and no matter how cool
those alpha versions are, we don't feel they are ready for the public. I ask
that all of you who see this do me a big personal favor and help me stop the
spread of these versions. If we all piss on that fire, perhaps we can put it
out.
Should I run for office or what?
---
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
Send questions about Id software to he...@idsoftware.com
(NeXTmail OK).
ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] Id "Official" anonymous FTP site
/pub/msdos/games/id Id games
/pub/msdos/games/id/home-brew Id games' great add-ons
/pub/incoming/id Upload dir
Randy Andrews
lot of tlak about it but i have never seen a date set for the releace...
--
Randy Andrews
Message-ID: <CAtD9...@sugar.NeoSoft.COM>
References: <1993Jul26....@nntpxfer.psi.com> <CAsyn...@wyvern.wyvern.com>
Lines: 3
Tom Stangler
: Yup, it happened. It seems two alpha versions of DOOM are out there and now
: alone.
: Friends, we would like to release a game we are proud of and no matter how cool
: those alpha versions are, we don't feel they are ready for the public. I ask
: that all of you who see this do me a big personal favor and help me stop the
: spread of these versions. If we all piss on that fire, perhaps we can put it
: out.
: Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
: Send questions about Id software to he...@idsoftware.com
: (NeXTmail OK).
: ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] Id "Official" anonymous FTP site
: /pub/msdos/games/id Id games
: /pub/msdos/games/id/home-brew Id games' great add-ons
: /pub/incoming/id Upload dir
I presume the location it is seen on/at is all you need....
--
*****************************************************************************
Tom Stangler QC Mngr, TRACOR Applied Sciences, Chesapeake Ops
Va Beach, VA Tidewater Sports Car Club, LTD
stan...@wyvern.wyvern.com tsc...@wyvern.wyvern.com
Jeff Miller
I really can't wait for the posts to begin that read something like:
Hello! I've misplaced my Doom manual, so I'd appreciate if someone could send
me a list of the keys in playing this game. Thanks
:)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
| |
| jmi...@terra.colostate.edu (Jeff Miller) | TERRA Systems Administrator |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Robert W. Igo
leaked Alpha version Jay Wil...@idsoftware.co (1563)
> Yup, it happened. It seems two alpha versions of DOOM are out there and now
> trying to stop their spread is like pissing on a forest fire. I cannot do it
> alone.
...
> Friends, we would like to release a game we are proud of and no matter
> how cool
> those alpha versions are, we don't feel they are ready for the public. I ask
> that all of you who see this do me a big personal favor and help me stop the
> spread of these versions. If we all piss on that fire, perhaps we can put it
> out.
I just wanted to show my support. Personally, I hate it when people
sneak a peek at something I'm working on that's not fit for the public
eye yet. It makes me feel as if they will judge something in progress
as if it's what I'd submit as the final result, and it annoys the hell
out of me. I know how you feel, Jay.
Hope this experience doesn't stop you from finding alpha testers on the
net. I'm sure the honest alpha testers appreciate the chance to help
out and have a sneak peek at the same time.
[********************************* Bob Igo ********************************]
"Rebel against nonconformity!" --me
[***************************** gryp...@cmu.edu ***************************]
ca...@urz.unibas.ch
>> Yup, it happened. It seems two alpha versions of DOOM are out there and now
>> trying to stop their spread is like pissing on a forest fire. I cannot do it
>> alone.
> ...
Hi Bob, you got my support ! I'll inform my local BBS's here in Basel,
Switzerland.
Evan David Light
That's because they haven't GIVEN a date when it would be
released, and it won't be just a demo. The first "installment" of DOOM
which is being distributed as shareware is the first mission (like the
shareware verson of Wolf 3D) of the game with the other missions being
sold separately at the price of $40 with registration (which should be
well worth it).
Incidently, if Jay Wilbur or Shawn Green happen to read this
message, just how many extra missions will come with the registered
version of DOOM. I'm quite sure that I'll purchase them when they
become available but I'm just curious.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan David Light |
ed...@Virginia.EDU | * THIS SPACE FOR RENT *
ed...@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU |
ed...@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan David Light
Pardon me, but I forgot one other fact: Id has said, a few
million times incidently (so much so that I wish that people would
stop asking when DOOM is coming out because I'd tend to believe that
just about everyone on Internet knows this now, with an obvious
exception in this case) that DOOM will come out in the 3rd quarter of
'93 which, to my knowledge, ends in September so expect it some time
around then.
Rich Harmer
your Alpha, Betas so YOU KNOW the person who leaked it and can punish them
by Non-disclosure contracts..
You WILL NOT stop the spread of your Alpha.. NO CHANCE! I have seen
it all over the world already..
Its like trying to stop a leeked beta of Strike Commander or something
like that..
Rich Harmer
rad...@iastate.edu
Dennis Rivard
> If I were you guys at Id software I would have put serial numbers in
>your Alpha, Betas so YOU KNOW the person who leaked it and can punish them
>by Non-disclosure contracts..
That's hard to do because at least for most of us beta-testers, we get
the copy right off the home BBS...
--
Dennis Rivard | Those who know/What's best for us/|
Technical Development Services | Must rise and save us from |
Bull Worldwide Information Systems | ourselves. - "Witch Hunt" Rush |
Evan David Light
I assumed that you fellows at Id may have put serial numbers
in the Alphas and Betas. It would seem to make plenty of sense
because, indeed, you could track down the inidividual responsible and,
assuming you put them under contract not to leak the program, you can
prosecute. Better yet, if you do serial number and put testers under
contract, it isn't all that likely that someone will be stupid enough
to attempt a breach of contract with the possibility of being sued for
a great deal.
Incidently, how on earth does one become a playtester? I'd
love to try it.
Jay Wilbur
<My cry for help deleted>
> I presume the location it is seen on/at is all you need....
To be honest I'm not sure what I need, or what to do next. I don't have the
time to hunt down every BBS that has the prerelease versions available.
---
Dan Evans
>
>
>To be honest I'm not sure what I need, or what to do next. I don't have the
>time to hunt down every BBS that has the prerelease versions available.
>
Jay,
Just give out data on how to identify the alpha versions, (byte size of
exe, whatever). The ability of the internet (and most BBS's) to police
themselves surprizes me sometimes. Post to the games and bbs groups.
--
The Danimal @@@@- @@@@-
@@@@@- @@@@- @@@@@- @@@@-
UUCP: att!ihlpm!evans @@@@- @@@@@- @@@@- @@@@@-
Internet: ev...@ihlpm.att.com @@@@- @@@@-
Dan Evans
>
> Incidently, how on earth does one become a playtester? I'd
>love to try it.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Evan David Light |
Evan,
I sure alot of folks would. That's probably why it's not common knowledge.
With a couple thousand testers why not just release the game? :-)
But you're right. I'd love to try it myself.
Ken Steele
> Tom Stangler writes
> <My cry for help deleted>
>
> > I presume the location it is seen on/at is all you need....
>
> To be honest I'm not sure what I need, or what to do next. I don't have the
> time to hunt down every BBS that has the prerelease versions available.
Ask people to delete the file set where ever they see it
and replace it with "Friend_of_Id_was_here" or "See_You_In_September"
>
> ---
> Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
> Send questions about Id software to he...@idsoftware.com
> (NeXTmail OK).
>
> ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] Id "Official" anonymous FTP site
> /pub/msdos/games/id Id games
> /pub/msdos/games/id/home-brew Id games' great add-ons
> /pub/incoming/id Upload dir
Ken Steele stee...@conrad.appstate.edu
Appalachian State University stee...@appstate.bitnet
Stephen Quan
>Give me a break... As an active BBSer, FTPer, etc., I can tell you that there
>is absolutely NO WAY the Doom Alpha will not be spread, and I doubt that
>it will even be slowed down. And the groveling I've seen in this newsgroup
>over it the past few days is really quite humorous. Does anyone really
>expect the average teenager to tell the sysop to delete a sneak preview of
>the game they're dying to see - esp. considering how many of the Alphas are
>undoubtedly on pirate FTP sits/BBSes?
For one thing Id software plan to release episode one of DOOM as shareware,
so by the time it is out, everyone can have a try. Price has nothing to do
with this "leak". Everyone is real eager to have a first look of DOOM,
when the real version comes out I am sure this "leak" version will be history.
>...
>it really isn't realistic to be so suprised by this type of event. I cannot
>think of a *single* person in high school/college that didn't at least copy a
>few things from friends... I know I have done the same, I know I have my
>registered copy of some software on both of my machines... and considering the
>hundreds and more like thousands of $$$ that I've spent on software, on
>upgrades, etc., I don't feel a tinge of guilt or regret.
>Nathan
Careful! You said you don't advocate piracy but you just did it! That's
how piracy can start a "simple" copying among friends. The friends of
friends gets a copy, then friends of friends of friends. It doesn't matter
how much money you've spent on software, that's your business, it still
doesn't make you right.
Disclaimer: These opinions are own.
--
Stephen Quan (qu...@sol.surv.utas.edu.au) Tel: 002 202898 (local)
SysOp, Computer Scientist, GIS Research Fellow, Fax: 002 240282 (local)
Centre for Spatial Information Systems, Tel: 61 02 202898
University of Tasmania, Australia. Fax: 61 02 240282
Robert keng
: Software piracy will probably never end... at least not until software becomes
: affordable yo *everyone*. I'm not advocating piracy, or castigating iD for
: being pissed that one of _their alpha testers_ leaked the game, just saying that
: it really isn't realistic to be so suprised by this type of event. I cannot
: think of a *single* person in high school/college that didn't at least copy a
: few things from friends... I know I have done the same, I know I have my
: registered copy of some software on both of my machines... and considering the
: hundreds and more like thousands of $$$ that I've spent on software, on
: upgrades, etc., I don't feel a tinge of guilt or regret.
This guy obviously doesn't program for a living.
Affordable to everyone?!? Gimme a break! We're talking about a shareware
program here! Just how expensive is your average commercial game? ~40-60 bucks?
Ohhh, real expensive.
David Taylor
I hate being suckered into this "argument" over the "expense" of games,
as for some reason I usually come out sounding like a facist, but I
totally agree with Rob. This "I can't afford it notion" is ludicrous.
If it's a SEGA or Nintendo game for ~40-60 bucks, you pay for it!
Why? Because it's just darn difficult to make copies of cartidges.
You're probably shaking you're head now- "but that's different! you're
getting a physical product!" BS! It's no different. The developers
write code, submit it to the manufacturer, ROMS are built, and the game
goes out. The producers get a cut of the profits, but the effort made
by the game company is identical. Everything is the same.
Because everyone you know stole software in high school and college,
you somehow think that these people were all behaving properly? I
found out after I graduated from high school that there was a huge
crack problem there and that there was an entire committee dedicated
to investigation at that school and that there were over 4 undercover
narcotics officers attending classes with the rest of us. You know,
I'm sort of glad I didn't come out of high school thinking that
"everybody I knew did it." I find that repugnant and shudder to
think that I might use that to rationalize my actions.
And do you go around stealing things because they cost too much? No!
Why? Because it's easier to steal information than it is to steal
something you have to hide in your pants or jacket on the way out of
the store.
So you're saying that if you blow a lot of money on software, you've
got a license to go out and steal games? Do Rolls Royce owners get
this same feeling? "I deserve some free cars, now. Think I'll
go on a crime spree." You're an intelligent human being. You make
buying decisions hopefully because you think the entertainment you
receive is worth the money you spent. That decision is final and
fair. If you want a little safety, buy from Babbages. They'll let
you return the bad games, and you'll always come out ahead.
And don't give me the classic excuses:
"I wouldn't have bought it anyway." If that were the case,
everything you pirated would be useless and boring to you, certainly
something you wouldn't buy. You would soon become dissatisfied with
the hastle of downloading stuff you "don't really want" and would just
buy the games you wanted.
"It's not like stealing because I'm just copying." That's the
pirate's strongest argument, and it's pathetically weak. Do you copy
entire books rather than pay for them? Do you wait for a free
electronic transcription written by some book-cracker?
There's no excuse for this crime. If you think games are cool now,
if the market were not one of the most crime-ridden in the world,
you would not have believed was what possible if companies could
afford more talented programmers, artists, musicians, equipment.
If every game required a card to operate as with a NES cartridge, would
you pirate? No. Why? Because when you start passing around stolen
hardware, your mind can suddenly visualize what's happening. "Hey,
wait a minute here, Nathan. This is your brain speaking. What's
this in your hands? It feels hot. I mean .. I thought .. that was
wrong."
It's amazing. We now have a world of computer users who can
totally understand the abstraction known as "software" yet can't
appreciate its physical value.
I'm not just going to bitch about your practices regarding piracy. I'm
going to suggest a way to change that isn't as painful as buying all
your software cold-turkey. Try getting together with friends, and
splitting the cost of a game. Pass it around. Hell, everyone gets
tired of games. Once you get say 1 week's worth of entertainment out
of it, then leave it on your hard drive and give it to someone else.
It's still piracy, and it's still wrong, but it's better than what just
stealing outright, and with any luck, you'll feel good about supporting
game companies and may feel so charitable some day as to actually buy
their games yourself.
=-ddt->
William Lachance
In a previous article, d...@huey.cc.utexas.edu (David Taylor) says:
Trading software, is also a good practice, one which is totally
legal. BTW, why don't companies use better copy protection? They know
it's a problem so why don't they do something about. Intergrate it into
the code( not an expert programmer here! ). Spread it around, make cracking
difficult!
Can't wait for CD-ROM to become a standard platform....
--
===============================================================================
|| William Lachance || E-mail address: ad...@freenet.carleton.ca |
|| "All I needed to learn about life I learned from Realms of Chaos - me ;-) |
===============================================================================
Marty Price
: Trading software, is also a good practice, one which is totally
: legal. BTW, why don't companies use better copy protection? They know
: it's a problem so why don't they do something about. Intergrate it into
: the code( not an expert programmer here! ). Spread it around, make cracking
: difficult!
: Can't wait for CD-ROM to become a standard platform....
Well I think the best copy protection yet, is one where the person has to
own a book, but not for a copy protection "Look-up page blah blah" scheme
but for they need to read this book to be able to complete the game. I
personally love it when I buy a game and it comes with a BIG BIG thick
book. Thats part of the reason I don't like nintendo games, they come
with little skinny 10 page things with corny plots and pictures. An
example of this would be Indiana Jones and Last Crusade. Only it had a
sort of look-up protection too though. However ontop of that, when you
neared the end of the game, you needed the book to get past certain traps
(Sort of like you must step on this spot, even though the game didn't tell
you to look it up, you had to figure that out all by itself) and
identifing the holy grail, which was pretty hard, because it was always
random on which it was and you'd have to go trough all the "articles" in
the book to find out which it probably was.. Of course, this was all at
the very end of the book. They should have done this more often.
--
Vhold
NBRI...@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu
away? Because someone else does not want to pay for "some disks"? BULL! I too
program for a living but that aside, it's money out of my pocket. A neighbor
of mine just bought a laptop and because he was too lazy to figure how to
copy his illegal WP, he wanted me to give him a copy of mine on 3.5" disks
and "oh while you are at it" give him any other software he might like.
Sorry guys not from this cowboy.
BTW, I do believe in "test driving" software, but not where games are
concerned.
/two cents back in pocket
Nick
NICHOLAS A BRIGHAM ~ UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA
NBRI...@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU ~ TUCSON, ARIZONA
NBRI...@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ONE GOOD TURN GETS ALL THE BLANKETS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jay Wilbur
> legal. BTW, why don't companies use better copy protection? They know
> it's a problem so why don't they do something about. Intergrate it into
> the code( not an expert programmer here! ). Spread it around, make cracking
> difficult!
I cannot speak for other in the biz, but we feel it's more important to take
care of the honest people then to protect against the criminals.
Steve Frazzini
Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
where concerned I was not all that impressed. I am looking forward to
being able to see those screens with Hi-color or better! I am also
looking forward to hearing what the sound is like, since there has been
some talk about that on here. I quess when it is released with all the
nice little features, like multi-player etc. it will be one of my
favorites! Ohh I did think that the mapping feature was GREAT!
No Flames please...
-steve
Jim Perry
> Nathan Boyd (nat...@velcro.slc.com) wrote:
> : Software piracy will probably never end... at least not until software becomes
> : affordable yo *everyone*. I'm not advocating piracy, or castigating iD for
> : it really isn't realistic to be so suprised by this type of event. I cannot
> : think of a *single* person in high school/college that didn't at least copy a
> : few things from friends... I know I have done the same, I know I have my
> : registered copy of some software on both of my machines... and considering the
> : hundreds and more like thousands of $$$ that I've spent on software, on
> : upgrades, etc., I don't feel a tinge of guilt or regret.
I fail to see how you can rationalize that having a licensed copy of
"Wayne's Widgets" justifies you pirating "Bob's Bytes" program. Bob still
can't feed his family with this logic!
Yes, lots of us have pirated software (I did on my apple][ when I was a
teenager) but most of us have grown up since.
I hope this is what you meant. But I DO feel regret for what I did when I
didn't really understand the issue. It still wasn't right.
You can invariably justify any action you want, but that doesn't make it right.
i.e. - "I wouldn't buy it anyway, so nobody is losing any money" - BZZZZZT.
>
> This guy obviously doesn't program for a living.
[stuff deleted]
> Ohhh, real expensive.
Agreed - Most commercial software games can be had for < $50 if you look around.
And the discussion was about a shareware program anyway.
Software is affordable for everybody except children with NO money. And in
that case, whoever bought the computer is to blame.
Software will become even more affordable when people quit pirating it!
Unfortunately, that means probably never.
> -Rob
> pri...@netcom.com
Jeff Miller
>place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
It amazes me how everyones "friend" has a copy of the DOOM Alpha.
>No Flames please...
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Scott Hensley
>> it's a problem so why don't they do something about. Intergrate it into
>> the code( not an expert programmer here! ). Spread it around, make cracking
>> difficult!
The reason that most companies don't use better protection is because it
doesn't do anything. Sooner or later pirates/crackers can break any
amount of proctection, thats one of reason for the decline of disk based
copy protection.
-Scott
Nathan Boyd
>: Software piracy will probably never end... at least not until software becomes
>: affordable yo *everyone*. I'm not advocating piracy, or castigating iD for
>: being pissed that one of _their alpha testers_ leaked the game, just saying that
>: it really isn't realistic to be so suprised by this type of event. I cannot
>: think of a *single* person in high school/college that didn't at least copy a
>: few things from friends... I know I have done the same, I know I have my
>: registered copy of some software on both of my machines... and considering the
>: hundreds and more like thousands of $$$ that I've spent on software, on
>: upgrades, etc., I don't feel a tinge of guilt or regret.
>
>This guy obviously doesn't program for a living.
Actually, I program in Visual C++ and ParcPlace ObjectWorks Smalltalk, with
a current focus on interfacing Object Oriented Database Management Systems
(e.g., Servio Corp's GemStone, Versant's Object Database), for a living.
>Affordable to everyone?!? Gimme a break! We're talking about a shareware
>program here! Just how expensive is your average commercial game? ~40-60 bucks?
The point is that they're getting a peek of a non-shareware game (the full
Doom game).
>-Rob
>pri...@netcom.com
>
Nathan
--
Nathan D. T. Boyd Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
bo...@sequent.com Beaverton, OR 97009
(503) 578-4197
Nathan Boyd
1> Most people don't buy every Sega/Nintendo game. They buy a few and then
trade amongst their friends. One can also rent games, and/or make copies of
them with readily-available cartridge copiers.
2> I realize that the programmers are putting much effort, etc., into this,
but don't try to tell me they aren't getting their just rewards because of
existing software piracy? I remember a few weeks back one of the iD guys
mentioning a _new porsche_... sounds like a rough life ;)
>Because everyone you know stole software in high school and college,
>you somehow think that these people were all behaving properly? I
>found out after I graduated from high school that there was a huge
>crack problem there and that there was an entire committee dedicated
>to investigation at that school and that there were over 4 undercover
>narcotics officers attending classes with the rest of us. You know,
>I'm sort of glad I didn't come out of high school thinking that
>"everybody I knew did it." I find that repugnant and shudder to
>think that I might use that to rationalize my actions.
As I said, I wasn't advocating it, and can understand where it can lead. But
nonetheless most people do it - in moderation - anyway.
I found your moral and ethical arguments quite amusing. But I'm glad you
are a strong enough man to be different... Doing crack and copying software
from a friend are rather different on *ANY* moral or ethical plane, wouldn't
you say?
>And do you go around stealing things because they cost too much? No!
>Why? Because it's easier to steal information than it is to steal
>something you have to hide in your pants or jacket on the way out of
>the store.
Exactly why it happens. I wasn't advocating or justifying piracy, just saying
that as long as software costs $$$ it will happen.
>So you're saying that if you blow a lot of money on software, you've
>got a license to go out and steal games? Do Rolls Royce owners get
>this same feeling? "I deserve some free cars, now. Think I'll
>go on a crime spree." You're an intelligent human being. You make
>buying decisions hopefully because you think the entertainment you
>receive is worth the money you spent. That decision is final and
>fair. If you want a little safety, buy from Babbages. They'll let
>you return the bad games, and you'll always come out ahead.
You're continuing what I was pointing out in my original post: freaking out
over nothing.
>And don't give me the classic excuses:
>
> "I wouldn't have bought it anyway." If that were the case,
>everything you pirated would be useless and boring to you, certainly
>something you wouldn't buy. You would soon become dissatisfied with
>the hastle of downloading stuff you "don't really want" and would just
>buy the games you wanted.
>
> "It's not like stealing because I'm just copying." That's the
>pirate's strongest argument, and it's pathetically weak. Do you copy
>entire books rather than pay for them? Do you wait for a free
>electronic transcription written by some book-cracker?
>
>There's no excuse for this crime. If you think games are cool now,
>if the market were not one of the most crime-ridden in the world,
>you would not have believed was what possible if companies could
>afford more talented programmers, artists, musicians, equipment.
Give me a break. Software piracy has not been detrimental to the market.
The only reason software companies go broke is excess competition. Whether
they have an inferior product, or cannot afford the pricing wars, their
competitors (not softare pirates) drive them out of business.
>If every game required a card to operate as with a NES cartridge, would
>you pirate? No. Why? Because when you start passing around stolen
>hardware, your mind can suddenly visualize what's happening. "Hey,
>wait a minute here, Nathan. This is your brain speaking. What's
>this in your hands? It feels hot. I mean .. I thought .. that was
>wrong."
>
>It's amazing. We now have a world of computer users who can
>totally understand the abstraction known as "software" yet can't
>appreciate its physical value.
But you're blowing off a fundamental issue: to what price can we put on
KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION? Once the guys at iD produce Doom, what kind of
efforts are they putting into it? Tech Support, bug fixes, etc. Not a lot
of $$$. Yet the price stays the same until infinitum. So after their
efforts are repaid a HUNDREDFOLD they'll keep making money. Also note that
we're not dealing with patented technologies.
So how do we determine what is fair pricing? How many lines of code? How
large of a development team? How big of an executable? Currently, the
only determinant is the market... and so as long as people can take
advantage of piracy they will... I mean, if it was really such a problem
why isn't more effort put into anti-piracy policies?
>I'm not just going to bitch about your practices regarding piracy. I'm
>going to suggest a way to change that isn't as painful as buying all
>your software cold-turkey. Try getting together with friends, and
>splitting the cost of a game. Pass it around. Hell, everyone gets
>tired of games. Once you get say 1 week's worth of entertainment out
>of it, then leave it on your hard drive and give it to someone else.
>It's still piracy, and it's still wrong, but it's better than what just
>stealing outright, and with any luck, you'll feel good about supporting
>game companies and may feel so charitable some day as to actually buy
>their games yourself.
>
> =-ddt->
Thanks for making me realize what egregious mistakes I have made.
David Vu
Oh no! Not the piracy thread again...
If games were for hire just like video tapes, in a way that *can't* be
copied, I think that a lot more people will be able to play the game, and game
companies can get a big profit. Of course, you can buy a copy, at a much
higher price, if you want to own it.
In my opinion, games like Civilisation and Falcon 3 has a huge replay value and
as such should be bought. Adventure games and arcade games, once you finish them,
there is no replay value left, that's why I 'd rather hire games than buy them.
.David.
Darran Edmundson
>Oh no! Not the piracy thread again...
Oh yes.
>If games were for hire just like video tapes, in a way that *can't* be
>copied, I think that a lot more people will be able to play the game, and game
>companies can get a big profit. Of course, you can buy a copy, at a much
>higher price, if you want to own it.
>In my opinion, games like Civilisation and Falcon 3 has a huge replay value and
>as such should be bought. Adventure games and arcade games, once you finish
>them there is no replay value left, that's why I 'd rather hire games than
>buy them.
I think software developers should be strapped down and forced to read this
post - it's the most reasonable solution I've seen to date.
I'd heard about this book called "Genius," all about the life and science
of Richard Feynman. I head over to Coles to see if it's in paperback; "fifty
bucks, you must be joking." I stop by the library and add my name to
the reserve list. Three weeks later I get the book, devour it overnight,
decide I want it for my permanent collection, and lay out the fifty
loonies at Coles.
Food for thought.
--
Darran Edmundson
dedm...@sfu.ca
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>can't feed his family with this logic!
>
>Yes, lots of us have pirated software (I did on my apple][ when I was a
>teenager) but most of us have grown up since.
>I hope this is what you meant. But I DO feel regret for what I did when I
>didn't really understand the issue. It still wasn't right.
>
>You can invariably justify any action you want, but that doesn't make it right.
>i.e. - "I wouldn't buy it anyway, so nobody is losing any money" - BZZZZZT.
>
>>
>> This guy obviously doesn't program for a living.
>[stuff deleted]
>> Ohhh, real expensive.
>
>Agreed - Most commercial software games can be had for < $50 if you look around.
>And the discussion was about a shareware program anyway.
>Software is affordable for everybody except children with NO money. And in
>that case, whoever bought the computer is to blame.
>
>Software will become even more affordable when people quit pirating it!
>Unfortunately, that means probably never.
I agree with you for the most part except for that last statement. If there
was zero piracy tomorrow, games would still cost as much as they do today.
The games are simply priced as high as the market can bare. Look at cartridges
, Street fighter 2 is $69. In the same store, Strike Commander is $69. There
is less than 1% copies of sf2 in the US are pirated (yes it is possible
to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
to do with pricing.
>
>> -Rob
>> pri...@netcom.com
>
>jim
>ji...@wordperfect.com
>
Rob Merritt
email:rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
I Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, not of my employer, not I
I of my friends and family, and not of a co-worker. I
I I
I "I just don't understand the Lemonheads. Their heads aren't I
I shaped like lemons!" -- comment from a conehead. I
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Marshall Ward
me off.
Nathan Boyd (bo...@sequent.com) wrote:
: 1> Most people don't buy every Sega/Nintendo game. They buy a few and then
: trade amongst their friends. One can also rent games, and/or make copies of
: them with readily-available cartridge copiers.
There is nothing wrong with buying and trading game cartridges. You don't
keep a copy so no copyright infringement. It's like a book, once I read it
if I want to give it away or trade it, no problem. I have not propagated any
copies. Same with rentals. I have never seen a cartridge copier. By "readily
available" do you mean commercially available or easily built? Where do you
get the blank cartridges to copy to? What is the legitimit use for such a
device or is it solely intended for copyright infringement?
: 2> I realize that the programmers are putting much effort, etc., into this,
: but don't try to tell me they aren't getting their just rewards because of
: existing software piracy? I remember a few weeks back one of the iD guys
: mentioning a _new porsche_... sounds like a rough life ;)
What is your point? Are you saying that once someone reaches the point where
he can afford a Porsche then he is no longer entitled to receive just
compensation for his efforts? People making a good living deserve to be
taken advantage of because they are successful? This is a common justification
for criminal behaviour. "THEY already make (or have) more than enough.
I don't. Therefore it is OK for ME to steal/cheat/etc. from them because
they won't miss it or I deserve it and can't get it any other way."
: As I said, I wasn't advocating it, and can understand where it can lead. But
: nonetheless most people do it - in moderation - anyway.
This is a pretty bold statement to me. I have heard it from people who
pirate software before. Just because YOUR circle of friends/acquaintences
"do it - in moderation", don't assume (and then state as fact) that "most"
people do it. One does not lead to the other. Admittedly, it IS a common
practice. This does NOT make it an acceptable practice so don't give me the
"most people do it, so it is OK" crap.
: Give me a break. Software piracy has not been detrimental to the market.
: The only reason software companies go broke is excess competition. Whether
: they have an inferior product, or cannot afford the pricing wars, their
: competitors (not softare pirates) drive them out of business.
Give ME a break! Who are you to say what effect software piracy has had on
the market. Do you have any facts or are you just blowing smoke? I'd bet on
smoke. Another common tactic to justify unethical behaviour.
: But you're blowing off a fundamental issue: to what price can we put on
: KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION? Once the guys at iD produce Doom, what kind of
: efforts are they putting into it? Tech Support, bug fixes, etc. Not a lot
: of $$$. Yet the price stays the same until infinitum. So after their
: efforts are repaid a HUNDREDFOLD they'll keep making money. Also note that
: we're not dealing with patented technologies.
They are not patented but, they ARE COPYRIGHTED damn it! You infer that you
support the protection of patents, why not copyrights? Who are you to put a
hard value on someones efforts? This is a democratic, capitalist system
Nathan. If you have a good or service that people are willing to pay for,
you have every right to make as much money as the market will bear... WITHOUT
LIMIT! The main exception is you can't have MONOPOLIES and control the
market. You have already pointed out, and I don't think anyone would argue,
that the software market is highly competetive. If they can make a hundredfold
profit on a product, more power to them. You only mention costs of producing
and supporting the successful product. What about all of the programs that
were written that did not recoup the costs? Companies need the successes to
help pay for the failures and keep the employees working. Do you really KNOW
the ACTUAL costs involved in producing DOOM? I don't. More smoke?
: So how do we determine what is fair pricing? How many lines of code? How
: large of a development team? How big of an executable? Currently, the
: only determinant is the market... and so as long as people can take
: advantage of piracy they will... I mean, if it was really such a problem
: why isn't more effort put into anti-piracy policies?
WE don't determine fair pricing. The market will. Right now, fair pricing
for electronic game programs is about $30 - $70. If the market decides not
to pay those prices, they will drop. If we assume that for every copy legally
sold, there is one illegal copy made, then if piracy was to stop one of two
things would happen. 1. The price would be cut in half and the companies
would make the same amount. OR 2. The price would stay the same and the
companies would make twice as much. Either way it does not matter. The
market sets the price. Competition sets the price.
I often wonder who is stupid enough to go out and pay for a game and then hand
out free copies? I have had people ask me for copies of my programs. They
only ask once and then they get an earful from me.
How much has to go into anti-piracy policies before you figure they are
serious Nathan?
The fact is Piracy does exist. So do many other forms of crime. It is still
illegal, immoral, and I hope all practitioners of it get a gross virus that
trashes there system straight to hell. I know you say you don't advocate
piracy. But don't give me your BS about how it is OK because the companies
make plenty of money and it really isn't hurting anything.
: Thanks for making me realize what egregious mistakes I have made.
Stealing is stealing, Nathan. There is no way to justify it. If it was
an OK practice, everyone would do it. But if everyone did, there would be no
market and no products. Therefore the thieves NEED honest people to keep
buying the products so there will continue to be products to steal. There
will also always be thieves. And thieves will always be low life scum.
If you are not a piracy practitioner, don't waste your time trying to justify
pirate behaviour. It can't really be justified.
: Nathan
: --
: Nathan D. T. Boyd Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
: bo...@sequent.com Beaverton, OR 97009
: (503) 578-4197
Marshall
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marshall G. Ward, III Phone: 707-577-3415 |
| Hewlett-Packard Company FAX: 707-577-5433 |
| Microwave Instruments Division UNIX: ma...@sr.hp.com |
| 1400 Fountaingrove Parkway, 4UST TELNET: 1-577-3415 |
| Santa Rosa, California, USA |
| 95403 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|-"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"------|
|-------------------------------------------------------------KANSAS--------|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Chisholm
There
> is less than 1% copies of sf2 in the US are pirated (yes it is possible
> to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
> of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
> to do with pricing.
>
>
I'm just curious to know how you came up with these percentages.
p.s. Where the hell do you buy your games? $69 for Street Fighter 2 and
SC? Jeez! You were seriously ripped off. Find another store quick!
Scott Chisholm
> but don't try to tell me they aren't getting their just rewards because of
> existing software piracy? I remember a few weeks back one of the iD guys
> mentioning a _new porsche_... sounds like a rough life ;)
I sounds like you think they don't work hard enough to make that kind of
money. Bull. They deserve whatever they can get. Their products are in
demand.
>> Give me a break. Software piracy has not been detrimental to the market.
> The only reason software companies go broke is excess competition. Whether
> they have an inferior product, or cannot afford the pricing wars, their
> competitors (not softare pirates) drive them out of business.
I suppose stealing a TV from Sears doesn't "really" hurt them either.
Well you're right there. They just charge us more for the next TV. Thats
exactly what happens in the software (and every other) market. Robbery
introduces an inefficiency in the market, the same as if the programmers
were forbidden by law from using anything but BASIC on a 286 for their
programming.
> But you're blowing off a fundamental issue: to what price can we put on
> KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION? Once the guys at iD produce Doom, what kind of
> efforts are they putting into it? Tech Support, bug fixes, etc. Not a lot
> of $$$. Yet the price stays the same until infinitum. So after their
> efforts are repaid a HUNDREDFOLD they'll keep making money. Also note that
> we're not dealing with patented technologies.
You're talking about after the product comes out. What about WHILE
they're making it? where do they get their money from then? From previous
products, of course. If they don't make enough money on their previous
project the latest ones won't be finished or won't be as good because they
can't afford to work on it as long.
These people (the software companies) have to pay off all the time
consuming and very expensive R&D that goes into a game. That takes a while.
Also, their direct profit on each game is small compared to what we pay for
it. There are a lot of other fingers in the pie.
> So how do we determine what is fair pricing? How many lines of code? How
> large of a development team? How big of an executable? Currently, the
> only determinant is the market... and so as long as people can take
> advantage of piracy they will... I mean, if it was really such a problem
> why isn't more effort put into anti-piracy policies?
Have you got a problem with the free market determining the proper price
of the game? Should we let Count Taxula and Algore decide the proper price
to charge? In a proper market the idea of a "fair" price has no place.
There is NO OTHER good method for determining the proper price of a product
than "what the market will bear".
Please excuse the sermonizing. I just don't see a problem here. The free
market is at work the way it should be.
Darcy Boese
> to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
> of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
> to do with pricing.
And back to the Shareware thing again, you can get a version of Street
Fighter 2 for the PC as Shareware. The graphics and sound effects (assuming
you have a sound card) are excellent. And it is _FREE_.
In my opinion, I think that Id probably should have distributed some kind of
non-playable demo by now. Something to show off the animation...
Jenny Lynne Gagne
>> is less than 1% copies of sf2 in the US are pirated (yes it is possible
>> to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
>> of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
>> to do with pricing.
>
>And back to the Shareware thing again, you can get a version of Street
>Fighter 2 for the PC as Shareware. The graphics and sound effects (assuming
>you have a sound card) are excellent. And it is _FREE_.
Except for the minor fact that it is not in fact a demo of the official SF@
for IBM, which apparently is being done by Hi-Tech Expressions (cringe).
It is in fact a SF2 clone by a guy out in Korea, which possibly violates
major copyrights over here.
However, somehow I seriously doubt that 60% of all SCs are pirated... mostly
because of the impressive size of the game and the power it needs cut down
the amount of disk-swaps-between-friends sorts of deals.
** Soapbox On **
Alright, we've heard from the "Honor and Piracy Don't Mix" holier-than-thou
goody goodys, the "It doesn't hurt anybody!" freely-pirating heartless types,
and the "Eh?" common people inbetween. It's pretty clear from the number of
times this thread has passed through comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.* that the
discussion goes nowhere (pirates still pirate, nonpiraters don't, etc), so
what's the point of spamming the newsgroup with a flamewar that has no real
end?
Just so people know my position (other than just 'can't we all just get along'
sort of attitude :), I have seen and have a copy of the alpha, and I'm planning
to call up ID and fork over my 40 dollars the MINUTE the game's released.
No, I won't mail the alpha to anyone. Spreading it is far worse than having
it, in my sometimes weakly supported opinion.
** Soapbox Off **
Marty Price
: And back to the Shareware thing again, you can get a version of Street
: Fighter 2 for the PC as Shareware. The graphics and sound effects (assuming
: you have a sound card) are excellent. And it is _FREE_.
: In my opinion, I think that Id probably should have distributed some kind of
: non-playable demo by now. Something to show off the animation...
Uh oh, your in for it now. People are going to start asking you were to
get it. :)
--
Vhold
Robert W. Igo
leaked Alpha version Darcy Bo...@spartan.ac.B (601)
> > is less than 1% copies of sf2 in the US are pirated (yes it is possible
> > to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
> > of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has
> little
> > to do with pricing.
> And back to the Shareware thing again, you can get a version of Street
> Fighter 2 for the PC as Shareware. The graphics and sound effects (assuming
> you have a sound card) are excellent. And it is _FREE_.
Sf2 for the IBM falls under the "not really legal" category, since the
people who did it were not licensed by Capcom to use likenesses and
names of the sf2 characters. I'm not sure I'd call that shareware,
since to accept money for making a game which violates copyright laws
would be very bad. Of course, if it's freeware, then maybe they can't
be touched. I don't know.
> In my opinion, I think that Id probably should have distributed some kind of
> non-playable demo by now. Something to show off the animation...
Maybe they would have if every 2nd message said "Doom is really going to
suck" instead of "Doom is going to be cool *sound effect of peeing in
pants due to excitement*" or "I figured out how to have up to 34 people
play simultaneously - this is going to be cool." They're already
getting enough advertisement as it is...
[********************************* Bob Igo ********************************]
"Now let me explain why this makes intuitive sense." --Prof. Larry Wasserman
[***************************** gryp...@cmu.edu ***************************]
Tom Gillman
>Nathan Boyd (bo...@sequent.com) wrote:
>What is your point? Are you saying that once someone reaches the point where
>he can afford a Porsche then he is no longer entitled to receive just
>compensation for his efforts? People making a good living deserve to be
>taken advantage of because they are successful? This is a common justification
>for criminal behaviour. "THEY already make (or have) more than enough.
>I don't. Therefore it is OK for ME to steal/cheat/etc. from them because
>they won't miss it or I deserve it and can't get it any other way."
Bill Clinton thinks so...
--
Tom Gillman, Systems Programmer |"I think you crossed that fine line
Wells Computer Center-Ga. State Univ. | between polite lying and outright
(404) 651-4503 sys...@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | sarcasm" -- Dilbert
My opinions, not GSU's... |
James Dusek
> pri...@netcom.com (Robert keng) writes:
>>Nathan Boyd (nat...@velcro.slc.com) wrote:
>>>suprised by this type of event. I cannot think of a *single* person in
>>>high school/college that didn't at least copy a few things from
>>>friends... I know I have done the same, I know I have my registered
>>>copy of some software on both of my machines... and considering the
>>>hundreds and more like thousands of $$$ that I've spent on software, on
>>>upgrades, etc., I don't feel a tinge of guilt or regret.
>>This guy obviously doesn't program for a living.
>>
>>Affordable to everyone?!? Gimme a break! We're talking about a shareware
>>program here! Just how expensive is your average commercial game? ~40-60 >>bucks?
>> Ohhh, real expensive.
> Why? Because it's easier to steal information than it is to steal
> something you have to hide in your pants or jacket on the way out of
> the store.
Do what I do, give old games out as gifts, as long as you keep it
in good shape.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| James Dusek | ______ ------ _____ |
| Motorola SRD | | | | | ______ | | |
| Rolling Meadows,Il |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|du...@cadsun.corp.mot.com | |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Randy Andrews
pirating has gotten WAY! outa hand.. no one is going to win on someting
like this so why not just stop? If yall have to keep argueing take it
to another group. I read this one for info on action games not on if
pirating is right or not
--
Scott Hensley
Pirates will keep on pirating. They _WILL NOT_ change their
attitudes by reading anti-piracy threads on the net. If they
do stop, it will be because they NO LONGER FEEL THE NEED TO DO IT.
Anti-piracy folks can whine, whine, whine, until they turn blue
but it won't accomplish a thing. Its like complaining about
over-population... not a whole lot you can do about it.
-Scott (the anti-piracy realist)
Jay Wilbur
>
> Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
> place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
> where concerned I was not all that impressed.
My fears are reality!
I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
Joseph Cochran
>Steve Frazzini writes
>>
>> Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
>> place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
>> where concerned I was not all that impressed.
>
>My fears are reality!
>
>I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
>planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
>
Don't worry too much, Jay. I'd rather listen to what you're planning
for the final game rather than hear someone bitch about the bugs or lack of
features in the alpha. I for one know how much of a difference there is
between alpha and release, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd really
hate for you to see my latest interface (I'm an interface designer) before
I get all the bugs out.
Hang in there!
(Oh yeah, and don't forget to post to announce when the game is
released :-) :-) )
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@polaris.async.vt.edu
| csi...@polaris.async.vt.edu |
+-------------------------------------+------------------------------------
"Well ... we're back ... in the car again."
"But at least we're out of the tree." Tim and Alan, JP.
JOHNATHAN LEWIS HARRIS
> My fears are reality!
>
> I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
> planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
>
You mean there's MORE to it???? I've seen the alpha and it's mind blowing already
but agree it's not ready
so will not allow it to be distributed. Good work and HURRY UP!
Johnathan Harris
jlha...@eos.ncsu.edu
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Well its normally on wuarchive, for a day or 2 then its deleted then its
re-uploaded again. That program has a huge turnover rate.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
> , Street fighter 2 is $69. In the same store, Strike Commander is $69.
>There
>> is less than 1% copies of sf2 in the US are pirated (yes it is possible
>> to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
>> of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
>> to do with pricing.
>>
>>
>
> I'm just curious to know how you came up with these percentages.
Well, it was easy with strike commander. I know exactly 10 people
who are presently playing it. of that group, only 4 bought it. (In fact,
the other 6 copied the game from the 4 who bought it). As for street fighter
2, I saw on some show a coping system that loads cartridges for the SNES
into a PCs hard drive, then it downloads it onto a dumb carts. No, they
obviously didn't say where to get one but I was under the impression it was a
did it yourselfer. But since the item is rare, I just guessed >1%
>
> p.s. Where the hell do you buy your games? $69 for Street Fighter 2 and
>SC? Jeez! You were seriously ripped off. Find another store quick!
Well, I went into 5 stores. (I want SF2) and they were KB toy and hobby,
Electronics boutique, Babbages and Toys R Us. $69 was the CHEAPEST I could
find it. One store wanted $79 for it! But I was specifically refering
to Electionics Boutique because they had SF2 and SC for $69 each.
I would try mail order, but I keep getting riped off. (I bought x wing from
a place and they kept sending me copies with disk missing! Oh well,
live and learn)
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>> to pirate cartridges, it is just too difficult) and maybe %60 of copies
>> of SC are pirated. Yet they are both the same price. I find piracy has little
>> to do with pricing.
>
>And back to the Shareware thing again, you can get a version of Street
>Fighter 2 for the PC as Shareware. The graphics and sound effects (assuming
>you have a sound card) are excellent. And it is _FREE_.
Yes and its also not legal. However I have played it and I found its
performance on my 486 33 less than acceptable.
If it was a legal translation, fine, but it isn't so its on the same level
of piracy.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Well, you CAN control over-population. All you need is a pair of clippers and
a ban-aide. :) Hmmm.. more work to prevent piracy.
On to a serious question, are there any action games for windows?>
Marty Price
: My fears are reality!
: I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
: planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
I knew this would happen too, probably the reason why even though the
"pre-release" of the doom alpha let me play it, I sort of wish it didn't
because of what *some* people would intrepet by it and go around saying
Doom "sux". Ugh. Owell, I think the Doom Alpha was completly awesome
myself. I thought it was even more awesome after I figured out how to
jump levels. And I still think it is awesome, and I know the real release
will be VERY awesome. I'm probably going to be another one of those
people that want to order before I even get the shareware version.
--
Vhold
Damian Haslam
enough already! can't you guys take this to email?
--
= u91...@student.canberra.edu.au = Noli disturbare circulos meos - Archimedes
= dam...@cairo.anu.edu.au = I know that you believe you understand what you
= Damian J. K. Haslam = think i said, but I'm not sure you realise that
= Computer Engineering = what you heard is not what i meant. - anon?
Jeff_M...@cup.portal.com
action packed.
It will include high-quality translations of five Atari
coin-ops; Asteroids, Missile Command, Battle Zone, Tempest
and Centipede.
They will use sounds digitized from the machines. The games
will run as windows or full-screen (640x480 max, though).
Coming out this month for $39.95 (from a press release).
Chan Hoong Keong
> I'd heard about this book called "Genius," all about the life and science
> of Richard Feynman. I head over to Coles to see if it's in paperback; "fifty
> bucks, you must be joking." I stop by the library and add my name to
> the reserve list. Three weeks later I get the book, devour it overnight,
> decide I want it for my permanent collection, and lay out the fifty
> loonies at Coles.
>
> Food for thought.
IMHO, software is not like book at all. Books can be kept for life.
But software become obsolete in a matter of years. With the OS and
hardware platform changed, existing software may fail to work
properly. In the matter of games, it might become too fast. (Try
running StarFlight on a 486-33) If it is an application software,
it will just be outclassed by better software with more features as
the hardware gain enough speed to support it. Is there anyone still
using VisiCalc for real work nowadays?
***********************************************************
Name : Chan Hoong Keong
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my
***********************************************************
Ross Erickson
>Steve Frazzini writes
>>
>> Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
>> place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
>> where concerned I was not all that impressed.
>
>My fears are reality!
>
>I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
>planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
Pay no attention, Jay. I merely reference the preview articles that
have graced the 'screens' of Game Bytes. This game, even though only
___% complete is still a landmark for action/arcade games.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
| Ross Erickson | Read GAME BYTES MAGAZINE!! |
| ro...@kaos.b11.ingr.com | Found at ftp.uml.edu |
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Antitrack
>From: jmi...@terra.colostate.edu (Jeff Miller)
>Subject: Re: DOOML leaked Alpha version
>Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 17:44:22 GMT
>>Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
>>place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
>
>It amazes me how everyones "friend" has a copy of the DOOM Alpha.
>
>Sorry, I couldn't resist.
>
Well, its human - just as if you tell an unreliable guy a (less important)
secret, "but don't tell it to anyone, will you!" - But by that token you'll
never stop it...
Alex
Ian Mercado
>>
>> Well I saw and got a chance to mess around with the Alpha at a friends
>> place. I must say that although it was nicer as far as the graphics
>> where concerned I was not all that impressed.
>
>My fears are reality!
>
>I just knew someone would see the alpha version (without all the wiz features
>planed for the final) and go public with something negative.
>
Yep, Doom sales will probably drop by at least 50% as a result of that post!
I wonder just what it DOES take to impress that guy...
Ian
(Patiently waiting 'til the end of September...just in time for my birthday!)
--
Ian Mercado
i...@slammer.atl.ga.us