DOOM - more pleads
Paul Jeffrey Smith
Before you go and say:
"Ah heres where I insert the classic "3RD QUARTER 93" comment"
WHat I want to know, whether that means.
a) Within the next 7 weeks
b) First two weeks of September
c) After that
d) Sometime this year.
I can understand you don't want to be in the position of Origin and their
"oh it'll be her REAL soon" with the regards to Strike COmmander, but
a bit of a hint would be nice.
With Beta version obviously released ( i haven't seen anything around here but
people on the net, have) it must mean that you are pretty well near finished.
Save for a few bugs that shouldn' take too long to fix.
What are you, in particular, waiting on before releasing it?
Also one last question. Booted up ole Wolf3d the other day, and was impressed.
AGAIN. But i hope the quality of the sounds of guards is better.
The "HALT" etc sound good, but I would love it to be lots clearer. Makes that
little bit more real. That obviously takes more space though.
OK one REAL final question. I have been discussing with friends what sort
of frame rate we will get. While 35 fps woul be great, is that realistic
for a plain vanilla 486-33 with Tseng-4000. I doubt that 35fps would
be possible with full detail. My friend has a DX2-66 with local bus
SOO, i can view it on that (yum yum).
regards
Paul "Wow that was a long message" Smith
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Please remove it and type the damn thing your self next time!!!
Jay Wilbur
> Jay/Shawn/Id in general.
>
> Before you go and say:
>
>
> "Ah heres where I insert the classic "3RD QUARTER 93" comment"
>
> WHat I want to know, whether that means.
>
> a) Within the next 7 weeks
> b) First two weeks of September
> c) After that
> d) Sometime this year.
> I can understand you don't want to be in the position of Origin and their
> "oh it'll be her REAL soon" with the regards to Strike COmmander, but
> a bit of a hint would be nice.
If I told you a date, any date, and we missed it you would be mad perhaps even
more so then us giving a vague range.
> With Beta version obviously released ( i haven't seen anything around here
but
> people on the net, have) it must mean that you are pretty well near finished.
> Save for a few bugs that shouldn' take too long to fix.
>
> What are you, in particular, waiting on before releasing it?
The version that was released was an alpha version, not beta.
We have been knee deep in WOLF3D SNES fightingg to meet deadlines after having
been screwed by a developer who was to help us out with this project. We are a
small group and we tend to focus on one project at a time to give each the
attention it needs. The shaft we got from the SNES developer hurt a bit, but
we hope to get it out in the range noted.
Release clue: by Sept. 30, 1993 (we hope) <g>
> Also one last question. Booted up ole Wolf3d the other day, and was
impressed.
> AGAIN. But i hope the quality of the sounds of guards is better.
We will be using a brand new sound engine for DOOM.
---
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
Send questions about Id software to he...@idsoftware.com
(NeXTmail OK).
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Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>
>The version that was released was an alpha version, not beta.
>
>We have been knee deep in WOLF3D SNES fightingg to meet deadlines after having
>been screwed by a developer who was to help us out with this project. We are a
>small group and we tend to focus on one project at a time to give each the
>attention it needs. The shaft we got from the SNES developer hurt a bit, but
>we hope to get it out in the range noted.
>
>Release clue: by Sept. 30, 1993 (we hope) <g>
Jay, Is there still going to be a wolf3d for the SNES? How while it be
compared to the PC verson? (better,worst,same..etc)
Rob Merritt
email:rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil
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I Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, not of my employer, not I
I of my friends and family, and not of a co-worker. I
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I "I just don't understand the Lemonheads. Their heads aren't I
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Jay Wilbur
> Jay, Is there still going to be a wolf3d for the SNES? How while it be
> compared to the PC verson? (better,worst,same..etc)
WOLF3D SNES is almost done. It to be a XMAS release.
We added several itmes to the SNES version of the game and changed all the
levels and goals around.
Added:
Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
Flame Thrower: toastem
Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
Automap
Removed:
All religious and political items, pictures, etc.
blood
Changed:
Hitler is now called Hister
Nazi is now called The Master State
We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
Dogs are now giant mutant rats
The game runs at a consistant 15fps (386sx speed) and is quite fun to play.
Mark Shanks
>Changed:
>Hitler is now called Hister
Was this necessary? Or is this a reference to the Nostradamus prediction?
I'm puzzled.
>Nazi is now called The Master State
Why?
>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
How come?
>Dogs are now giant mutant rats
Yeah, THAT figures.
Guess it'd be asking too much for a "Castle Tojo" version from
SNES, eh? Brrr, a chill wind blows through the game market now....
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David Datta
: >Changed:
: >Hitler is now called Hister
: >Nazi is now called The Master State
: >We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
: >Dogs are now giant mutant rats
: Why?
: How come?
There are very strict rules imposed by the SNES folks about what can
and cannot be referred to in games for their systems. The changes Id
made sound like those that they require.
--
- Dave Da...@cs.uwp.edu
"Information wants to be free." - Elektric Music
Ron Asbestos Dippold
>>Nazi is now called The Master State
>Why?
Nintendo has a "standards" group. If you want to release your SNES
game as a licensed Nintendo creation it has to live down to their
standards. This includes lack of blood, lack of well-known religious
symbols, or whatever they feel could possibly be offensive. It's sort
of like the Comics Code used to be. There's no such body for PC
games, since nobody has a stranglehold on the machine, so ID can do
whatever they want in that department. The "PC-13" rating seems like
a reasonable compromise to me.
--
Yeast is yeast and nest is nest and never the mane shall tweet.
Matt Bottrell
>> Jay, Is there still going to be a wolf3d for the SNES? How while it be
>> compared to the PC verson? (better,worst,same..etc)
>
>WOLF3D SNES is almost done. It to be a XMAS release.
>
>We added several itmes to the SNES version of the game and changed all the
>levels and goals around.
>
>Added:
>
>Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
>Flame Thrower: toastem
>Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
>Automap
>
All good fun by the sound of it! :)
>Removed:
>All religious and political items, pictures, etc.
>blood
>
ohhh....no blood! :(
>Changed:
>Hitler is now called Hister
>Nazi is now called The Master State
>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
>Dogs are now giant mutant rats
>
Geez..... can't we kill any more dogs..... and I enjoyed blowing
Nazis! *Grins*
>The game runs at a consistant 15fps (386sx speed) and is quite fun to play.
>
>---
>Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
Sounds fun.....but I will enjoy the PC version....blowing nazis and
dogs with blood everywhere seems a lot better to me!
But I guess with the XNES you would have to calm the game down a bit..
Cheers,
Matt.
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Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Well there is alittle blood in street fighter 2. And if Mortal Kombat isn't
in all its gory glory, whats the point?
Sega has something where their rating games, and if you want the gory mode
of mortal kombat, you have to call up and get the number from sega.
But atlest Doom wouldn't be faced with these problems. Ok, I really doubt if
they'll put blood and guts cacked to the walls after you shoot a alien/human
player but there is always the next release! ;D
Rob Merritt
email:rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil
Sysop of Moon Base Tycho BBS. 410-391-6291. Running Renegade
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
I Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, not of my employer, not I
I of my friends and family, and not of a co-worker. I
I I
I "And his face which was a paper-white mask of evil, I
I he sang us a song." I
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Robert W. Igo
more pleads Matt Bott...@deakin.OZ. (1684)
> >Removed:
> >All religious and political items, pictures, etc.
> >blood
> >
> ohhh....no blood! :(
Not even a Game Genie code to turn it back on?
> Sounds fun.....but I will enjoy the PC version....blowing nazis and
> dogs with blood everywhere seems a lot better to me!
> But I guess with the XNES you would have to calm the game down a bit..
Will there be a Japanese release w/ blood & guts? Japanese versions are
usually PG-13, not G like the US versions :(
[********************************* Bob Igo ********************************]
"I'm entitled to my opinion." -Vila
"It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating."
-Avon
[***************************** gryp...@cmu.edu ***************************]
Scott Hensley
[text obliterated]
>Added:
>
>Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
>Flame Thrower: toastem
>Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
>Automap
ARRGG! Why couldn't have this been in the computer version?
>Changed:
>Hitler is now called Hister
>Nazi is now called The Master State
>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
Why? Don't want to offend any Nazi's that may be playing?
-Scott
Francisco X DeJesus
>> Jay, Is there still going to be a wolf3d for the SNES? How while it be
>> compared to the PC verson? (better,worst,same..etc)
>
>WOLF3D SNES is almost done. It to be a XMAS release.
>Removed:
>All religious and political items, pictures, etc.
>blood
Ugh. Not the same game. Goes from PC-13 to PG. Oh well... hopefully it will
be a big seller anyway!
So, when is the Sega VR version coming out? :-) (I can dream, can't I?)
--
Francisco X DeJesus ----- S A I C ----- dej...@c3ot.saic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"Duck Season!" "Rabbit Season!" "...rabbit season." "It's Duck Season! SHOOT!"
Jacob C Kesinger
>>Changed:
>>Hitler is now called Hister
>>Nazi is now called The Master State
>>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
>Why? Don't want to offend any Nazi's that may be playing?
>-Scott
I think Hilter would have been better. (Most of you should
know what I'm talking about).
However, it's a pity you can't keep all the Nazi refs.
I think that was a big part of the game, it had personality.
Now it sounds rather, erm, bland plotwise.
I think it will be a great game, all in all.
--Jake
--
Jake Kesinger n914...@henson.cc.wwu.edu
"While in federal prison they all found the Lord, who was serving a six-year
sentence for failing to file tax returns."
--Dave Barry, _Dave_Barry_Slept_Here_
Jay Wilbur
> > Sounds fun.....but I will enjoy the PC version....blowing nazis and
> > dogs with blood everywhere seems a lot better to me!
>
> > But I guess with the XNES you would have to calm the game down a bit..
>
> Will there be a Japanese release w/ blood & guts? Japanese versions are
> usually PG-13, not G like the US versions :(
We had considered doing two versions, one for North America and one for
Japan/Europe but decided to do only one and get back to work on DOOM.
---
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) Id Software
Jay Wilbur
> In article <1993Aug9.1...@nntpxfer.psi.com> ja...@idsoftware.com (Jay
Wilbur) writes:
>
> [text obliterated]
>
> >Added:
> >
> >Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
> >Flame Thrower: toastem
> >Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
> >Automap
>
> ARRGG! Why couldn't have this been in the computer version?
So you would want to buy the SNES version. :)
Actually these items were not part of the original design of WOLF3D PC. When
we contracted to do the SNES version the publisher requested more stuff. The
list quoted is the more stuff we decided to do.
Charles David Mentzer
When you are playing multiple players, is it possible to
have some sort of friendly mode? (A way to not waste a
friend?) This would take away from the realism, but
would make the killing of only monsters more fun.
Imagine... walking into the room where your friends
are hand combating a hord of creatures. You have come
from a secret room found full of ammo. As your gun
finally quiets, only men in suits are left standing.
More death, less pissed off friends.
-Chad
Scott Chisholm
The list quoted is the more stuff we decided to do.
Any chance of getting at least the automap for the PC version?
James Ojaste
Huh? When there are still 3 other people left standing? :-)
Imagine... Walking into a room where your friends are blasting away at a
bunch of hideous monsters - they run out of ammo, and the only sounds
are those of their guns clicking harmlessly away... You open whirl into
the open doorway, shout for your teammates to drop, and spray away! Your
teammates stand up, thank you over and over. You tell them that you just
found a room full of ammo and health, but you can't carry anymore - while
they gratefully run down the corridor, you replace your clip, and empty
it into their backs - they never suspect a thing...
Anyone wanna play? :-)
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David Reeve Sward
more pleads by James Oja...@wfh7546.Ber
> Anyone wanna play? :-)
Not that version. Back in April/May we had a long discussion on how to
add something like this to Doom. I gave a suggestion based on the
Netrek war rules, but most people didn't like them (mostly, I suspect,
because they didn't understand either the system or the rationale).
Unfortunately, I have to put you in the second category.
Put another way, *I want an option where all or select humans are safe
from the other humans fire*. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
But if I want to just have a fun romp killing demons with some friends
without having to worry about killing them by accident (or by purpose)
then I would use this option.
Don't ruin my fun because you don't understand.
--
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Stop the Big Brother Chip - Just say NO to the Clipper "Wiretap" Chip!
to...@nevada.edu
>In article <1993Aug9.1...@nntpxfer.psi.com> ja...@idsoftware.com (Jay Wilbur) writes:
>
>>Changed:
>>Hitler is now called Hister
>
>Was this necessary? Or is this a reference to the Nostradamus prediction?
>I'm puzzled.
>
>>Nazi is now called The Master State
>
>Why?
>
>>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
>
>How come?
>
I worked for Westwood Studios for a few months playtesting their games and
had a chance to look at nintendos "standards" (or whatever you want to call
them). Basically, any game for a nintendo machine must be submitted to
and approved by nintendo and nintendo has a large list of things that you
are not allowed to do in a video game if you want it published. Some of
the ones I remember are: no nudity, no decapitations, no religious symbols
or references, no excessive violence (!!!), etc etc. We had a binder with
all of the "regulations" in it. I *think* sega has something like this too
but I've never seen it.
Murray Chapman
[Jay details the changes in the SNES-version of WOLF3D: more weapons, no
religious symbols or Nazi references]
As well as conforming to Nintendo standards, I believe that with the Nazi
references removed, the program will be legal in Germany.
Cheers,
Murray
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-- muz...@cs.uq.oz.au zhm...@pf.hd.bm.nh --
-- University of Queensland Havirefvgl bs Dhrrafynaq --
-- Brisbane, Australia Oevfonar, Nhfgenyvn --
Matt Bottrell
><text deleted>
>> > Sounds fun.....but I will enjoy the PC version....blowing nazis and
>> > dogs with blood everywhere seems a lot better to me!
>>
>> > But I guess with the XNES you would have to calm the game down a bit..
>>
>> Will there be a Japanese release w/ blood & guts? Japanese versions are
>> usually PG-13, not G like the US versions :(
>
>We had considered doing two versions, one for North America and one for
>Japan/Europe but decided to do only one and get back to work on DOOM.
>
>---
Matt Bottrell
Nah forget that idea..........either shoot directly or blow 'em away..
Serves 'em right really get in your line of fire! ;)
Fredric Lonngren
A better solution would be to scream 'DOWN' over the comm and your friends
drops to the floor (by some kbd-button), and then you blast away on the
monsters. Those who remained standing will have to learn to pay more
attention. :)
Any 'crawl-option' included in DOOM Jay ?
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Gregory G Greene
'>>Changed:
'>>Hitler is now called Hister
'>>Nazi is now called The Master State
'>>We pulled Hitler's moustache from his picture and boss image
'>>Dogs are now giant mutant rats
'>
'>Why?
'>How come?
'>
'>There are very strict rules imposed by the SNES folks about what can
'>and cannot be referred to in games for their systems. The changes Id
'>made sound like those that they require.
I love these strict rules. According to Nintendo, it's ok to
shoot people down with a multi-barreled gun or fry them to a crisp
with a flame thrower but heaven forbid we see a little blood. I
love it, Hister and the master state. As if anyone doesn't know
what that really means. What a bunch a bozo's.
No intended flame towards ID by the way, just contempt for the
"strict rules" that the Nintendo thought police institute.
Greg Greene
g...@kepler.unh.edu
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
or the small fact that Japan (and Nintendo is a japaness company) fought
with Germany and the Nazis could be a sore spot.
Rob Merritt
email:rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil**Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone.
Sysop of Moon Base Tycho BBS. **not of my employer, not of my friends,
(410)391-6291, Running Renegade **and family, and not of a co-worker.
"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be" -unknown
James Ojaste
|> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 11-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
|> more pleads by James Oja...@wfh7546.Ber
|> > Anyone wanna play? :-)
|>
|> Not that version. Back in April/May we had a long discussion on how to
|> add something like this to Doom. I gave a suggestion based on the
|> Netrek war rules, but most people didn't like them (mostly, I suspect,
|> because they didn't understand either the system or the rationale).
|> Unfortunately, I have to put you in the second category.
I understand what you're saying, but it detracts from the realism of the
game, and it also detracts from your freedom (ie "The product of Freedom
and Security is a constant" - and I'd rather have the freedom).
|> Put another way, *I want an option where all or select humans are safe
|> from the other humans fire*. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
|> But if I want to just have a fun romp killing demons with some friends
|> without having to worry about killing them by accident (or by purpose)
|> then I would use this option.
|>
|> Don't ruin my fun because you don't understand.
Oh, I understand, I just don't agree with your definition of "fun"... :-)
Scott Hensley
David Reeve Sward <swa...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>Put another way, *I want an option where all or select humans are safe
>from the other humans fire*. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
>But if I want to just have a fun romp killing demons with some friends
>without having to worry about killing them by accident (or by purpose)
>then I would use this option.
>
>Don't ruin my fun because you don't understand.
Arggg! I understand completely. It was known as the 'Please don't
hurt me.' setting on Wolf3d. I'm sure that a trainer will be
made that will give players, like yourself, total invulnerability
to aliens and gunfire.
IMO that would 'ruin' alot of the fun of a game like DOOM. I think
that a HUGE part of the fun will be planning out strategies with
your buddies and trying to execute them correctly.
-Scott
Bob Tausworthe
>add something like this to Doom. I gave a suggestion based on the
>Netrek war rules, but most people didn't like them (mostly, I suspect,
>because they didn't understand either the system or the rationale).
>Unfortunately, I have to put you in the second category.
>
>from the other humans fire*. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
>But if I want to just have a fun romp killing demons with some friends
>without having to worry about killing them by accident (or by purpose)
>then I would use this option.
>
>Don't ruin my fun because you don't understand.
Wow! are you REALLY on the DOOM Design Committee!?!? Can I touch your postings?
Can I kiss your keyboard? Who's the "we" in your first paragraph, a bunch of
backseat drivers? Can I kick your tires? Can I water your radiator?
Can I really USE the FEATURE YOU DESIGNED into DOOM? Huh? Huh? Can I? Can I
lick your bits? Can I pet your mouse?
What catagory are you going to put me in? :-)
tozz
Michael Oltz
>>Put another way, *I want an option where all or select humans are safe
>>from the other humans fire*. If you don't like it, then don't use it.
>>But if I want to just have a fun romp killing demons with some friends
>>without having to worry about killing them by accident (or by purpose)
>>then I would use this option.
On the other hand, they could just implement...
PAINTBALLS!
:-)
David R. Paoletti
: We added several itmes to the SNES version of the game and changed all the
: levels and goals around.
: Added:
: Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
: Flame Thrower: toastem
: Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
: Automap
How many of these are going to find their way into DOOM?
Pretty please, let us burn bad guys with flame throwers
and watch them run around screaming and crisping like
they do in Syndicate!!
Dave :)
David Reeve Sward
more pleads by James Oja...@wfh7546.Ber
> game, and it also detracts from your freedom (ie "The product of Freedom
> and Security is a constant" - and I'd rather have the freedom).
Understand, I'm NOT asking for this to be the default behavior
whatsoever. What I'm asking for is it to be an OPTION. Don't use it if
you don't want it. There are times I wouldn't want it either. But when
I do want it it's nice to have it there to facilitate play with your
friends. In this case, I'd like the ability to choose before each game
whether I want Freedom or Security.
David Reeve Sward
>
> Arggg! I understand completely. It was known as the 'Please don't
> hurt me.' setting on Wolf3d. I'm sure that a trainer will be
> made that will give players, like yourself, total invulnerability
> to aliens and gunfire.
>
> IMO that would 'ruin' alot of the fun of a game like DOOM. I think
> that a HUGE part of the fun will be planning out strategies with
> your buddies and trying to execute them correctly.
You don't understand at all. Wolf was a single-person game. DOOM is a
multiple-player game. The option I want would NOT affect your
interaction with the denizens of the game (i.e. demons). It would ONLY
affect your interactions with the other players. I DON'T WANT "total
invulnerability to aliens" AT ALL. Got it? Probably not. Get a clue
and READ WHAT I WROTE.
David Reeve Sward
postings?
> Can I kiss your keyboard? Who's the "we" in your first paragraph, a bunch of
> backseat drivers? Can I kick your tires? Can I water your radiator?
>
> Can I really USE the FEATURE YOU DESIGNED into DOOM? Huh? Huh? Can I? Can I
> lick your bits? Can I pet your mouse?
>
> What catagory are you going to put me in? :-)
Don't be silly. Of course not (to all of the above). But perhaps we
(I?) can convince Jay & crew to add this to Doom. I think it would
improve the game to have this option.
Robert W. Igo
Bwuahahahahaaa! Trying to execute "them" properly. Good one.
[********************************* Bob Igo ********************************]
"Rebel against nonconformity!" --me
[***************************** gryp...@cmu.edu ***************************]
Shawn Green
Sorry, in multiplayer mode it's every man for himself!
--
-Shawn Green (sh...@idsoftware.com)
David Reeve Sward
more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
*sigh* Ok everybody, you can cancel your responses to my posts... :(
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>them). Basically, any game for a nintendo machine must be submitted to
>and approved by nintendo and nintendo has a large list of things that you
>are not allowed to do in a video game if you want it published. Some of
>the ones I remember are: no nudity, no decapitations, no religious symbols
>or references, no excessive violence (!!!), etc etc. We had a binder with
>all of the "regulations" in it. I *think* sega has something like this too
>but I've never seen it.
>
>-to...@redrock.nevada.edu
Not to be picky, but I swore I saw a bunch of religous referances in
the Castlevainia series. Oh well..
Anyways, I now know why Christan games never have a nintendo seal on them..
Phi Phi 211
I do love torching people in Syndicate, but I was more interested in seeing
that chainsaw in the alpha of doom, Hmmm, Jason meets doom....
--
Keith G. Spencer |"I want peace on Earth & goodwill towards men. - |
kgsp...@mtu.edu | We're the United States government, we don't do that!" |
/\XA Phi Phi 211 |-------------------------------------- (Sneakers) -------|
PGP-finger kgsp...@pace1.cts.mtu.edu (Vball players score on the floor!)
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <24bak3...@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> me...@victor.engin.umich.edu (Charles David
>Mentzer) writes:
>|>
>|> When you are playing multiple players, is it possible to
>|> have some sort of friendly mode? (A way to not waste a
>|> friend?) This would take away from the realism, but
>|> would make the killing of only monsters more fun.
>|> Imagine... walking into the room where your friends
>|> are hand combating a hord of creatures. You have come
>|> from a secret room found full of ammo. As your gun
>|> finally quiets, only men in suits are left standing.
>|>
>|> More death, less pissed off friends.
>
>Sorry, in multiplayer mode it's every man for himself!
>
Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
Great going guys. Thanks for ruining it.
Yeecheung Ho
Does anyone know any ftp sites with cracks other than ftp.uwp.edu, and any sites that has game docs?
Names of BBS's on the 'Net with similar files would also be appreciated.
Michael Solinas
: Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
: Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
: multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
: to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
: Great going guys. Thanks for ruining it.
Well, that's a first. Whining and flaming BEFORE a product is abailable.
My two cents - ID has not let me down yet. I'm sure Doom will be a great
game.
--
Shawn Green
<rcmerrit>) writes:
[deletes]
|> Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
Of course it is, the multi player option is just that - an option.
|> Then I refuse to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
Sounds like you've already made your decision....
Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't create arguments, people do.
David Reeve Sward
more pleads by Robert M. <rcmerrit>@apg
> Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
> multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
> to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
I also fail to see why everyone refuses to even TRY and understand our
positions (which are very similar). Even Shawn seems quite enthusiastic
that you have no safety on killing your teammates.
David Reeve Sward
more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
create arg
> uments, people do.
I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
Keith Hearn
>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>> Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>create arg
>> uments, people do.
>
>I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
Yeah, it's really sad that they aren't jumping to put in new features
when there are still at least *two* *whole* *weeks* until it's due
to be released. I think they should go ahead and implement all these
*wonderful* ideas. Of course if they do they'd then have to do one of
two things:
1) Push back the release date while they run it through the testing
cycle again. End result: they get crucified for missing their
release date.
2) Release it without testing it again. Heck, who cares if on odd
numbered levels you can only kill your friends and not the monsters,
at least it got that *fantastic* new feature on the even numbered
levels. End result: they get crucified for releasing a crappy
product.
#REALITY_MODE_ON
Face it folks. All your suggestions for new features at this point are
falling on deaf ears for a *very* good reason. They're TOO LATE.
The alpha has been around for weeks, which means they're prolly done
or nearly done with beta testing, and will be working on final
packaging and release.
Trying to add features now would only make the product worse. I, for
one, am glad to see that the guys at Id understand this.
Keith Hearn
A guy who writes real programs for a real company in the real world,
and understands little details like feature freeze dates and code
freeze dates. Just like the guys at Id.
--
Keith Hearn \ There are times when
khe...@pyramid.com \ I think a nuclear war
Pyramid Technology Corporation \ might benefit mankind.
(408) 428-7304 or (408) 263-2701 \
Randy Andrews
1 person in the game at a time does the # of creatures increase or stay
the same as if you were only playing with 1 person?? If the # dosen't increase
does the dificulty of the game increase at all? how about the # of weapons
and items there are do they increase????
--
William Lachance
In a previous article, msol...@netcom.com (Michael Solinas) writes
[ tons of stuff on Doom Killings deleted ]
Don't worry, I'm sure within several weeks of the release
they'll be a utility which allows for no killings of your team mates,
with all the programmers stuff.
--
===================================================================
|| William Lachance || E-mail address: ad...@freenet.carleton.ca
\---------/\---------/\-------------/\-----------------------------
Scott Hensley
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
[text deleted]
>>|> More death, less pissed off friends.
>>
>>Sorry, in multiplayer mode it's every man for himself!
>>
>
>Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
>Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
>multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
>to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
>
God! Are you for real? Yeah.. multiplayer is the only way to solve
and enjoy the game. ID wants everyone to run out and set up a Novell
network in their basements so they can play DOOM. They also specifically
designed the game to purposely 'create arguments and fights'. I'm
pretty damn sure that the game will be more than enjoyable with one
player.
>Great going guys. Thanks for ruining it.
Are you and your friends that lame that they would get 'pissed off'
because you (accidentally) shoot them in a COMPUTER GAME. How
about you take some time to develop some strategies/tactics to
minimize (if not eliminate) the potentially bad effects of
friendly fire. Or better yet.. I suggest you take up something less
nerve wracking.. like crochet or checkers.
-Scott
(p.s. the game is going to be open to 'home-brew' add-ons. Instead
of bitching why don't you code your own hack that will allow you
to shoot your friends without damaging them?)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"Very well," said Cugel. "I will ride with you to Taun Tassel, but
you must except these three terces in full, exact, final,
comprehensive and complete compensation for the ride and every
other aspect, adjunct, by-product and consequence, either direct
or indirect, of the said ride, renouncing every other claim, now,
and forever, including all times of the past and future, without
exception, and absolving me, in part and in whole, from any and
all further obligations."
-Cugel to Iucounu in "Cugel's Saga" by Jack Vance
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Scott Hensley
>more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>> Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>create arg
>> uments, people do.
>
>I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
>
As I stated earlier, why don't you and your little buddy just write
(or have someone) your own hack for the game that will allow you
to turn off friendly fire? Remember that the guys at ID are writing
DOOM the way they want it, not the way *you* want it. Its their game,
not yours. If you're so 'sad' about this, then don't but the game.
I'm sure ID won't miss your business.
-Scott
Scott Hensley
at ID have ever considered opening a complete DOOM multi-player
network. Have everyone get a front end (a la Airwarrior) and
then have huge 'gang' warfare between teams in specially designed
levels/mazes. Any thoughts?
Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
a 'sniping' box.
-Scott
Jay Wilbur
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
> more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
> > Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>
> I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
We are opening the game up with a rich set of technical specs. so that people
who want to add something that we didn't put in the release version can add it.
A trainer that allows people to run around and take 0 damage if a live player
shoots him is a great example of something that should be programmed by someone
else.
We don't think it's a good idea. (Our opinion) If we did think it was a good
idea we would have put it in the design specs. If you think it's a good idea
(your opinion) we will make the resources available to you (or someone else) to
write a trainer to pull your cheat off.
Jezz, you would think we were the bad guys here!
---
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) id Software
Send questions about id software to he...@idsoftware.com
(NeXTmail OK).
ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] id "Official" anonymous FTP site
/pub/msdos/games/id id games
/pub/msdos/games/id/home-brew id games' great add-ons
/pub/incoming/id Upload dir
Eric Johnson
khe...@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn) wrote:
>
stuff deleted
> Face it folks. All your suggestions for new features at this point are
> falling on deaf ears for a *very* good reason. They're TOO LATE.
> The alpha has been around for weeks, which means they're prolly done
> or nearly done with beta testing, and will be working on final
> packaging and release.
>
> Trying to add features now would only make the product worse. I, for
> one, am glad to see that the guys at Id understand this.
>
> Keith Hearn
> A guy who writes real programs for a real company in the real world,
> and understands little details like feature freeze dates and code
> freeze dates. Just like the guys at Id.
All I can add is: EXACTLY! Thanks Keith for summing up most of what I was
thinking. The people who think we're wrong can go ahead and bitch/moan
about "what DOOM could/should have been" while we're enjoying PLAYING DOOM.
Eric M. Johnson *
RZA...@email.sps.mot.com * "...I could turn up some old hit
Motorola SPS, Tempe AZ * so loud I can't hear it anymore..."
602-897-4673 * - del Amitri
Marty Price
: #REALITY_MODE_ON
: Face it folks. All your suggestions for new features at this point are
: falling on deaf ears for a *very* good reason. They're TOO LATE.
: The alpha has been around for weeks, which means they're prolly done
: or nearly done with beta testing, and will be working on final
: packaging and release.
: Trying to add features now would only make the product worse. I, for
: one, am glad to see that the guys at Id understand this.
: Keith Hearn
: A guy who writes real programs for a real company in the real world,
: and understands little details like feature freeze dates and code
: freeze dates. Just like the guys at Id.
Your message was one of the best messages I've seen yet around here. I am
also a little disappointed that there will be no feature so you can't hurt
your friends, but I've decided that it will give the game more realism.
About having arguements with your friends, no matter how you are playing a
game, it's inevitable. Hopefully you have good enough friends that it
shouldn't make any difference, I know it won't for me, there is always the
next game!
--
Vhold
Norm MacNeil
|> In article <24rfoi$n...@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com>,
|> khe...@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn) wrote:
|> >
|> stuff deleted
|> > Face it folks. All your suggestions for new features at this point are
|> > falling on deaf ears for a *very* good reason. They're TOO LATE.
|> > The alpha has been around for weeks, which means they're prolly done
|> > or nearly done with beta testing, and will be working on final
|> > packaging and release.
|> >
|> > Trying to add features now would only make the product worse. I, for
|> > one, am glad to see that the guys at Id understand this.
|> >
|> > Keith Hearn
|> > A guy who writes real programs for a real company in the real world,
|> > and understands little details like feature freeze dates and code
|> > freeze dates. Just like the guys at Id.
|>
|> All I can add is: EXACTLY! Thanks Keith for summing up most of what I was
|> thinking. The people who think we're wrong can go ahead and bitch/moan
|> about "what DOOM could/should have been" while we're enjoying PLAYING DOOM.
Eric, couldn't agree more. I've been following this thread for a while and
find it quite laughable that, as you put it, people are bitchin' and moanin'
about something that isn't even out yet!
--
Norm.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Norm MacNeil Phone: (613) 763-3372
Data Systems Fax: (613) 765-2854
Bell-Northern Research Ltd. EMail: no...@bnr.ca (INTERNET)
#include <disclaimer.std> "Roller bladers do it in-line!"
Nathan Charles Crowell
Scott Hensley <sh...@selway.umt.edu> wrote:
>In article <1993Aug16....@apgea.army.mil>,
>Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
>
>[text deleted]
>
>
>God! Are you for real? Yeah.. multiplayer is the only way to solve
>and enjoy the game. ID wants everyone to run out and set up a Novell
>network in their basements so they can play DOOM. They also specifically
ID won't do that, but remeber, Origin damn near did with Strike
Commander and it's piss poor frame rate on many systems....
>designed the game to purposely 'create arguments and fights'. I'm
>pretty damn sure that the game will be more than enjoyable with one
>player.
>
>>Great going guys. Thanks for ruining it.
>
>Are you and your friends that lame that they would get 'pissed off'
>because you (accidentally) shoot them in a COMPUTER GAME. How
>about you take some time to develop some strategies/tactics to
>minimize (if not eliminate) the potentially bad effects of
>friendly fire. Or better yet.. I suggest you take up something less
>nerve wracking.. like crochet or checkers.
^^^^^^^
I've never tried it, but it looks damn frustrating to me!
>
>-Scott
Nate
--------------------------
Nathan C. Crowell, Dept. of Materials Science/ACRL
Worcester Polytechnic Institute E-mail: bi...@wpi.wpi.edu
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled"
- Rush,'Territories'
David Reeve Sward
> when there are still at least *two* *whole* *weeks* until it's due
> to be released. I think they should go ahead and implement all these
> *wonderful* ideas. Of course if they do they'd then have to do one of
> two things:
Actually, I started asking about this back in March or April. Hardly
*two* *whole* *weeks* (or even *months*) before the planned release.
Ian Mercado
>
>We don't think it's a good idea. (Our opinion) If we did think it was a good
>idea we would have put it in the design specs. If you think it's a good idea
>(your opinion) we will make the resources available to you (or someone else) to
>write a trainer to pull your cheat off.
>
>Jezz, you would think we were the bad guys here!
>
>---
>Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) id Software
Yes, and could you please make sure to include digitized pictures of yourself
and the rest of ID software on the monsters heads so we can feel vindicated
as we blow/torch/waste/maim/mutilate/dismember you guys to kingdom come?
Please? :-)
Seriously, though, way too many of these comments are being left by people
who have absolutely no idea what "real world" software development is like.
They think they should be able to ask, ask, ask, and receive, receive, receive
exactly what they asked for.
Wow, come to think of it, that's what all our customer base is like, too!
Welcome to the "real world" of software development, ID!
Ian
Hint: All you gotta do is tell them, "It'll be in a future release."
--
Ian Mercado
i...@slammer.atl.ga.us
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <1993Aug16....@apgea.army.mil> rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt
><rcmerrit>) writes:
>
>[deletes]
>
>|> Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
>
>Of course it is, the multi player option is just that - an option.
Ok, good, I can enjoy that then.
>
>|> Then I refuse to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
>
>Sounds like you've already made your decision....
>
>Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't create arguments, people do.
Have you ever played paint ball? Do you reallize how upset your team mates
get when you shoot them?
I know games don't create arguments, but some seem to provoke them
more quickly than others.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 16-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>more pleads by Robert M. <rcmerrit>@apg
>> Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
>> Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
>> multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
>> to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
>
>I also fail to see why everyone refuses to even TRY and understand our
>positions (which are very similar). Even Shawn seems quite enthusiastic
>that you have no safety on killing your teammates.
I've been playing games for years. (say 15 or so) and games that you can kill
you partner allways cause arguments, unhappiness and fights.
(the only exception to that is paranoria, but the back stabing is the
rule!)
I refuse to play such games for about 2 years now.
Reality, I wouldn't play games if I wanted reality
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Well, my best suggestion is buy the game and play it exactly like wolf3d,
single player.
And maybe over a network (or modem) if your both non-violent. But then,
why would you even WANT to play doom if you were non-violent. :>
Oh well, there is always Id's next release... in a year or two..
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In <AgQGpHi00...@andrew.cmu.edu> David Reeve Sward <swa...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>>more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>>> Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>>create arg
>>> uments, people do.
>>
>>I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
>
>Yeah, it's really sad that they aren't jumping to put in new features
> when there are still at least *two* *whole* *weeks* until it's due
> to be released. I think they should go ahead and implement all these
> *wonderful* ideas. Of course if they do they'd then have to do one of
> two things:
Ahh this feature was suggested back when Doom was first annouced by many moons
ago and they waited till *just*two*whole*weeks* to tell us that it
would have a feature. (I think the alpha version doesn't even allow
you to shoot other players. Which means they had to ADD this feature resently)
>
>1) Push back the release date while they run it through the testing
> cycle again. End result: they get crucified for missing their
> release date.
I'd rather wait for a game I want to play that have a game RIGHT NOW which
I would avoid like the black plague.
However, Shawn did answer my question, which was is it beatable in single
player mode. He said yes and thus I will probably still buy the game. Then
you have games like Gaunlet which you HAVE to have multiplayers and I
remember quite a few times having to get up and walk a way because I accently
killed some guy and they wanted to fight over it. Thats sort of ok in an arcade
but I refuse to invite it into my home.
Marty Price
: ago and they waited till *just*two*whole*weeks* to tell us that it
: would have a feature. (I think the alpha version doesn't even allow
: you to shoot other players. Which means they had to ADD this feature resently)
Well, in fact, in the alpha there WAS shot detection, and with your
teammates. And I'm refering to 05/22 alpha. Basicly, to test this,
simply try to walk through your teammates before you shoot them, you
can't, but then after you shot them, you could walk right through them (of
course the real game won't be anything like that, but it proves that the
shot decection was in there.
: I'd rather wait for a game I want to play that have a game RIGHT NOW which
: I would avoid like the black plague.
: However, Shawn did answer my question, which was is it beatable in single
: player mode. He said yes and thus I will probably still buy the game. Then
: you have games like Gaunlet which you HAVE to have multiplayers and I
: remember quite a few times having to get up and walk a way because I accently
: killed some guy and they wanted to fight over it. Thats sort of ok in an arcade
: but I refuse to invite it into my home.
Alot of people wouldn't rather wait for the game, this is evident in the
large multitudes of people that want to get thier hands on the incomplete,
buggy alpha from 05/22.. The point still remains that there is no doubt
in my mind at ALL that somebody will release a program (tsr or patch) that
makes it so you can't hurt each other. So you get the best of both
worlds, you get to play the game initially, and then later get to use the
patch. And like I said before, if you can't have little fights with your
friends and not get over it, then maybe you should get new friends?
--
Vhold
Geoffrey A Wiseman
: get when you shoot them?
Yes, but that's partly 'cause it hurts like a son-of-a-bitch, and
you get splatter all over you, 'just 'cause you have a friend who can't
shoot straight...
: I know games don't create arguments, but some seem to provoke them
: more quickly than others.
Well, I'm just impressed and stunned that anyone could even consider making
a game like this, specially a Shareware Company. Congratz to ID!!!
G.
Geoffrey A Wiseman
: you partner allways cause arguments, unhappiness and fights.
: (the only exception to that is paranoria, but the back stabing is the
: rule!)
: I refuse to play such games for about 2 years now.
: Reality, I wouldn't play games if I wanted reality
Well, my experience is that it causes a little annoyance, and a lot of
fun. I've always enjoyed multiplayer games (including partner killable
ones) more than normal ones, and so do my friends. Sure, it can be a pain,
but it's fun, and we get over it.
G.
Geoffrey A Wiseman
: This is a little off the subject, but I was wondering if you guys
: at ID have ever considered opening a complete DOOM multi-player
: network. Have everyone get a front end (a la Airwarrior) and
: then have huge 'gang' warfare between teams in specially designed
: levels/mazes. Any thoughts?
That would be pretty unbeatable. A DOOM as-many-as-you-want-players
network kill-each-other teamed or every-man-for-himself kinda thing.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <1993Aug16....@apgea.army.mil>,
>Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
>
>[text deleted]
>
>>>|> More death, less pissed off friends.
>>>
>>>Sorry, in multiplayer mode it's every man for himself!
>>>
>>
>>Ahhh.. Question, is the game beatable for a single player?
>>Because if you can kill your team members in multiplayer mode, and
>>multiplayer mode is the only way to solve/enjoy the game. Then I refuse
>>to waste money on the product designed to create arguments and fights.
>>
>
>God! Are you for real?
1. I am not god
2. Yes I am real, atlest as far as I last checked
> Yeah.. multiplayer is the only way to solve
>and enjoy the game.
Well it is a valid question. There are a few games that are like that.
> ID wants everyone to run out and set up a Novell
>network in their basements so they can play DOOM.
Well since this is a GAME (not business software) and includes options for
such, I could only assume thats what they wanted.
Being one of those with one in my basement, I was looking forward to trying
this.
> They also specifically
>designed the game to purposely 'create arguments and fights'.
I don't know. Some people are sadistic.
In an AD&D game, we had a game where this guy got his jollies from sliting
the throats of player character. So we took his character and gutted him.
He got upset that we were "ruining" the whole point of the game.
I have this vision in the back of my mind of a team member avoiding the `
monsters, blowing away other team member and saying" opps, hit you buy
accident" (probably for the 40th time in the hour)
> I'm
>pretty damn sure that the game will be more than enjoyable with one
>player.
I'm glad you told me this. Opps.. wait, you don't work for id. So, how would
you know?
(Shawn said it would be, so I'll assume it is)
>
>>Great going guys. Thanks for ruining it.
>
>Are you and your friends that lame that they would get 'pissed off'
>because you (accidentally) shoot them in a COMPUTER GAME. How
>about you take some time to develop some strategies/tactics to
>minimize (if not eliminate) the potentially bad effects of
>friendly fire. Or better yet.. I suggest you take up something less
>nerve wracking.. like crochet or checkers.
Well, since its an action game, not a stratigy game, I assumed that it would
be like gaunlet. Where its impossible to avoid hiting players some time.
>
>-Scott
>(p.s. the game is going to be open to 'home-brew' add-ons. Instead
> of bitching why don't you code your own hack that will allow you
> to shoot your friends without damaging them?)
You know, I just can't wait for new games to come out so I can write code
to correct design flaws. Get real.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <AgQGpHi00...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>David Reeve Sward <swa...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>>more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>>> Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>>create arg
>>> uments, people do.
>>
>>I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
>>
>
>As I stated earlier, why don't you and your little buddy just write
>(or have someone) your own hack for the game that will allow you
>to turn off friendly fire? Remember that the guys at ID are writing
>DOOM the way they want it, not the way *you* want it. Its their game,
>not yours. If you're so 'sad' about this, then don't but the game.
>I'm sure ID won't miss your business.
>
>-Scott
There is that coding thing again. Wait I'll know! I'll write Doom from
scratch!
Naa maybe not...
I'm still going to buy the game, but I'm certain Id is just thrilled to
have people like you telling everyone to not buy their product.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>> more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>> > Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>> create arguments, people do.
>>
>> I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
>
>We are opening the game up with a rich set of technical specs. so that people
>who want to add something that we didn't put in the release version can add it.
>
>A trainer that allows people to run around and take 0 damage if a live player
>shoots him is a great example of something that should be programmed by someone
>else.
>
>We don't think it's a good idea. (Our opinion) If we did think it was a good
>idea we would have put it in the design specs. If you think it's a good idea
>(your opinion) we will make the resources available to you (or someone else) to
>write a trainer to pull your cheat off.
Well, I certainly hope one comes out. But I though most of the addons would
be diffferent wall pictures and mazes
>
>Jezz, you would think we were the bad guys here!
Naa.. I just think you make a major mistake. But since the game is
playable in single player mode, I'll just view it as wolf3D clone.
I might try it over the network, but I'm going to avoid playing it like that.
Scott Hensley
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
[text deleted]
>> They also specifically
>>designed the game to purposely 'create arguments and fights'.
>I don't know. Some people are sadistic.
>In an AD&D game, we had a game where this guy got his jollies from sliting
>the throats of player character. So we took his character and gutted him.
>He got upset that we were "ruining" the whole point of the game.
>I have this vision in the back of my mind of a team member avoiding the `
>monsters, blowing away other team member and saying" opps, hit you buy
>accident" (probably for the 40th time in the hour)
>
Listen... we could argue about this for decades. If you play with people
like this then you have one option... don't play with them. I'll think
they'll get the message about being an asshole real quick. In the games
I have played where a similar situation has happened, this seems to get
good results. Oh well..
-Scott
Jay Wilbur
> This is a little off the subject, but I was wondering if you guys
> at ID have ever considered opening a complete DOOM multi-player
> network. Have everyone get a front end (a la Airwarrior) and
> then have huge 'gang' warfare between teams in specially designed
> levels/mazes. Any thoughts?
I have spoken to a few multiplayer network guys and the thought just don't do
much for us. The multip-player option will be a bonus that perhaps 15% of all
players will ever use. We are putting most of our efforts into the single
player game.
> Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
> I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
> are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
> a 'sniping' box.
This issue is currently on the design table.
--
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) id Software
Francisco X DeJesus
Being able to hit other players is not a design flaw that needs to be
corrected. It's how the game goes. If you think it's a feature you'd like,
you are given the chance (and information!) to add it. I wish all games
were like that...
--
Francisco X DeJesus ----- S A I C ----- dej...@c3ot.saic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are mine. Typos and errors are yours *
"Duck Season!" "Rabbit Season!" "...rabbit season." "It's Duck Season! SHOOT!"
Nathan Charles Crowell
>>In article <AgQGpHi00...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
>>David Reeve Sward <swa...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>>>Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Au
[stuff deleted]
>There is that coding thing again. Wait I'll know! I'll write Doom from
>scratch!
>Naa maybe not...
>
>I'm still going to buy the game, but I'm certain Id is just thrilled to
>have people like you telling everyone to not buy their product.
>
>Rob Merritt
Actually, I think he was telling you and others who feel the same as
you do that they shouldn't buy the game.
The rest of will be enjoying DOOM quite a lot while you sulk!
Jay Wilbur
> >(p.s. the game is going to be open to 'home-brew' add-ons. Instead
> > of bitching why don't you code your own hack that will allow you
> > to shoot your friends without damaging them?)
>
> You know, I just can't wait for new games to come out so I can write code
> to correct design flaws. Get real.
>
>
> Rob Merritt
Rob,
In our eyes you would be waiting for the game to come out so you could design
and code a flaw into the game.
At least we give you an easy option to push the game beyond what we and a great
many others felt the game should do. Not many (in fact none) other commercial
publishers give technotes and code examples ya know!
James Ojaste
|> In article <1993Aug19....@apgea.army.mil>,
|> Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
|> >> They also specifically
|> >>designed the game to purposely 'create arguments and fights'.
|> >I don't know. Some people are sadistic.
|> >In an AD&D game, we had a game where this guy got his jollies from sliting
|> >the throats of player character. So we took his character and gutted him.
|> >He got upset that we were "ruining" the whole point of the game.
|> >I have this vision in the back of my mind of a team member avoiding the `
|> >monsters, blowing away other team member and saying" opps, hit you buy
|> >accident" (probably for the 40th time in the hour)
|>
|> Listen... we could argue about this for decades. If you play with people
|> like this then you have one option... don't play with them. I'll think
That's perfectly right - play *against* them. :-)
If your friends get that angry with you for shooting them (either accidentally
or not) - then you've got some pretty high-strung friends. My friends and
I play several competitive multiplayer games, and the only thing that we
do when we get killed it smile, and then blow them away...
We usually don't get past level 2 of Ebonstar, for example (in tournament mode).
|> they'll get the message about being an asshole real quick. In the games
|> I have played where a similar situation has happened, this seems to get
|> good results. Oh well..
--
/* 0F 90 3E 44 F9 13 E7 CC (joj...@descartes.uwaterloo.ca)
** 10 20 44 C8 42 21 08 98
** 38 40 F9 50 87 C2 1F 30 "Woof bloody woof" - Gaspode the Wonder Dog
** 40 81 12 61 08 84 22 00 (Terry Pratchett, Moving Pictures)
*/ F9 FA 24 42 11 3F 44 C0
Francisco X DeJesus
>However, Shawn did answer my question, which was is it beatable in single
>player mode. He said yes and thus I will probably still buy the game. Then
>you have games like Gaunlet which you HAVE to have multiplayers and I
>remember quite a few times having to get up and walk a way because I accently
>killed some guy and they wanted to fight over it. Thats sort of ok in an arcade
>but I refuse to invite it into my home.
Those reactions depend more on two things: who you're playing it with, and
how seriously you take it. The game itself doesn't start a fight.
Gauntlet was one of my favorite arcade games (I even have the Atari ST version
with the 4-player adapter - awesome for the college dorm!). Every time I've
played it with my friends, it's been a blast. Levels where you could hit each
other were favorites, usually just starting out by an innocent accident:
"Whoops... sorry!" "Oh yeah! Wait till I catch you!" "Aw, you're gonna get it
for that one" "Heh, got the treasure while you guys weren't looking!" "Let's
get him!!!" ...
I've never taken a game seriously enough to get upset over something like
"getting hit" or "losing one of my three lives". After all, they're just
games! Play them for fun...
PS: A friend of mine and I are already looking forward to the opportunity
to blow each other to bits in DOOM.
Marty Price
: > Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
: > I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
: > are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
: > a 'sniping' box.
: This issue is currently on the design table.
Hmm, when I played the alpha, all you had to do was line up your gun with
them horizontally, and it would hit whoever vertically as well. But I can
imagine that with weapons like the rocket launcher, that would be a bit
impractical..
Here is the question again: What will the weapons be in Doom?
--
Vhold
Ryan E. Ingram
Actually, there are very few games I've seen that offer 'tourney'
modes, and I wish there were more-- not just 'teammates' and
'each for their own self' but other games, assassination for instance.
--
|~-_ |~--_ |\ | Ryan E. Ingram | | \ / |~-_ |\ |\/|
| > |~t_| |\ |/ mty...@epx.cis.umn.edu | |/ \/ | > |\ |/\|
|_-~ | | | | /| Known as Mithrandir somewhere | /| /\ |_-~ | | |
| \ | | | | | Fanatic of MUD, moria, nethack | | / \ | \ | | |
Ryan E. Ingram
>In article <1993Aug17....@nntpxfer.psi.com> ja...@idsoftware.com (Jay Wilbur) writes:
>>David Reeve Sward writes
>>> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action: 17-Aug-93 Re: DOOM -
>>> more pleads by Shawn Gr...@idcube.idsof
>>> > Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't
>>> create arguments, people do.
>>>
>>> I'm sad to see that the people at Id have closed their minds over this.
>>
>>We are opening the game up with a rich set of technical specs. so that people
>>who want to add something that we didn't put in the release version can add it.
>>
>>A trainer that allows people to run around and take 0 damage if a live player
>>shoots him is a great example of something that should be programmed by someone
>>else.
>>
>>We don't think it's a good idea. (Our opinion) If we did think it was a good
>>idea we would have put it in the design specs. If you think it's a good idea
>>(your opinion) we will make the resources available to you (or someone else) to
>>write a trainer to pull your cheat off.
One question-- does this mean someone could write something so there was an
OPTION to turn off friendly fire? Or do we need to make a backup of the
game. I, being one of the people without unlimited disk space, would
appreciate incredibly if this was not one of those "well, you can have
your cheat, but you have to have it all the time unless you copy the
whole game except for the files that are changed.
>Well, I certainly hope one comes out. But I though most of the addons would
>be diffferent wall pictures and mazes
>I might try it over the network, but I'm going to avoid playing it like that.
--
Jay Wilbur
It's to early to have a complete list. Here is a list of those MOST LIKELY to
be in the game.
Fist
Knife
Rifle
Machine Gun
Plazma Gun
BFG9000
Chainsaw
This list is subject to change.
Ben Gamble
|In an AD&D game, we had a game where this guy got his jollies from sliting
|the throats of player character. So we took his character and gutted him.
|He got upset that we were "ruining" the whole point of the game.
For any of you who have played Paranoia... A team I played on at a
con once consisted of me and one other guy who wanted to play the
story, and four jerks who just wanted to spend the whole time killing
each other with the R&D equipt. We solved this one by not calling for
their clones.
Oh, how they howled!
(Okay, I realize this is .action and not .frp. Anyone who wants to
continue the thread, consider taking it to .frp. I'm not since it's
not a hobby of mine.)
--
Ben Gamble B0 f- t+ w- g+ k- s- m- e r-v p
gam...@neosoft.com
Oh ye who go about saying unto each other: "Hello sailor":
Dost thou know the magnitude of thy sin before the gods?
Keith Hearn
Jay Wilbur <ja...@idsoftware.com> wrote:
>It's to early to have a complete list. Here is a list of those MOST LIKELY to
>be in the game.
>
>Fist
>Knife
>Rifle
>Machine Gun
>Plazma Gun
>BFG9000
Let me guess... Big F-ing Gun???
- - -
:)
Keith
--
Keith Hearn \ There are times when
khe...@pyramid.com \ I think a nuclear war
Pyramid Technology Corporation \ might benefit mankind.
(408) 428-7304 or (408) 263-2701 \
The Gillrocker
>In article <1993Aug9.1...@nntpxfer.psi.com> ja...@idsoftware.com (Jay Wilbur) writes:
>>Added:
>>
>>Missile launcher: kill many bad guys in a row
>>Flame Thrower: toastem
>>Backpacks: increase the number of ammo you can carry.
>>Automap
Hey..why don't you folks at Id add these into the PC version...you could
call it Wolfenstein 3-D II or something...
--
_ __ A straight _ line __ may be the shortest distance between two points,
' ) ) but it is//by no/ ) means the most interesting. -- Dr. Who
/--' __. . . // / __ _____ _ ______ __. ____ pcrossma@ulowell
/ (_/|_(_/_</_ (__/ / (_(_) \_)__/_)_/ / / <_(_/|_/ / <_ .ulowell.edu
Bob Tausworthe
>at ID have ever considered opening a complete DOOM multi-player
>network. Have everyone get a front end (a la Airwarrior) and
>then have huge 'gang' warfare between teams in specially designed
>levels/mazes. Any thoughts?
>
>I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
>are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
>a 'sniping' box.
>
some guys for asking for features (not defending them, they're loony) and
letting them know in none too nice king's english that you disapproved of
their whining requests.
Now here you are asking questions about high vaulting futures and features
yourself.
I've got an idea. Why don't you just WAIT for the game to come out and hey
if it doesn't have the ability to aim the weapon up or down, write that
nifty little crack that you think EVERYBODY has the time/ability/inclination
to write to do it for you (make sure you write it so that you can shoot your
friends in the butt, that'd be kool).
tozz
Scott Hensley
Bob Tausworthe <to...@hpindda.cup.hp.com> wrote:
>>This is a little off the subject, but I was wondering if you guys
>>at ID have ever considered opening a complete DOOM multi-player
>>network. Have everyone get a front end (a la Airwarrior) and
>>then have huge 'gang' warfare between teams in specially designed
>>levels/mazes. Any thoughts?
>>
>>Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
>>I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
>>are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
>>a 'sniping' box.
>>
>OH MY GOD! I just got finished reading two postings where you tore into
>some guys for asking for features (not defending them, they're loony) and
>letting them know in none too nice king's english that you disapproved of
>their whining requests.
>
Hmmm... The first thing has nothing to do with the actual game DOOM.
A suggestion and nothing more. I also did not reply to Jay by saying
'I'm sad that you've closed your minds to this idea.' as if I *expect*
them to put it in because I thought of it.
The second _question_ is just that. A question. I did not ask them
to add it to the game.... I wanted to know if it was in the game already.
>>Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
Its the same thing as 'Will DOOM support this [network, soundcard, etc]'
The reason I responded the way I did to the other posters is because of
the rediculous stance they took to the people at ID becuase they would
not be adding 'their' feature to the release of DOOM.
-Scott
Ron Asbestos Dippold
There's a big difference between "Will the game have this feature" or
"It'd be cool if the game did this"; and "Geez, I can't believe the
game isn't going to have this feature, I am so disappointed, I guess
the game is really going to suck."
--
No matter how much cats fight, there always seems to be plenty of kittens.
Stanley Stasiak
>> Marty Price writes
>> Here is the question again: What will the weapons be in Doom?
>It's to early to have a complete list. Here is a list of those MOST LIKELY to
>be in the game.
>Fist
>Knife
>Rifle
>Machine Gun
>Plazma Gun
>BFG9000
>Chainsaw
>This list is subject to change.
Not to be pedantic or anything Jay, but didn't Id's Doom press release
(you know the really old one ~ January) say that there will be some
'supernatural' weapons?
(That is in the registered 3 episode version when you 'travel to other
dimensions'.)
From the list above I can qualify Plazma Gun for that. Is that it?
And what about a good old flame thrower?
Stan.
Ryan Grant
>>Will it be possible to aim your weapon up and down in DOOM?
>>I've noticed from some of the screen shots I've seen that there
>>are some great places where a person could cover large areas from
>>a 'sniping' box.
>>
[bitch-out 1/2 deleted]
>I've got an idea. Why don't you just WAIT for the game to come out and hey
>if it doesn't have the ability to aim the weapon up or down, write that
>nifty little crack that you think EVERYBODY has the time/ability/inclination
>to write to do it for you (make sure you write it so that you can shoot your
>friends in the butt, that'd be kool).
ID is not releasing the source.
I don't know exactly what specs will be released. Certinly the networking
link-ins, level creation, and I expect a bunch of other easy stuff, but
there seems to be a prevailing idea on this newsgroup that with ID's
specification documentation Joe user will be able to sit down and add features
in xx minutes.
I have seen hacks with real features added made from only the binaries, but
it's a whole different ball game (far less players).
ID, _which_ specs will be released, and _what_ will be possible with them.
I think this clarification would be rather helpful.
Thanks, (and thanks for the specs to begin with!!),
- Ryan Grant
rgr...@uiuc.edu
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <mumble> rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>|In an AD&D game, we had a game where this guy got his jollies from sliting
>|the throats of player character. So we took his character and gutted him.
>|He got upset that we were "ruining" the whole point of the game.
>
>For any of you who have played Paranoia... A team I played on at a
>con once consisted of me and one other guy who wanted to play the
>story, and four jerks who just wanted to spend the whole time killing
>each other with the R&D equipt. We solved this one by not calling for
>their clones.
>
>Oh, how they howled!
True, but the whole POINT of paranoia was to be backstabing!
Look, this whole thing has gotten way bent out of perportion!
I merely was upset because I though that "like most multi-player games" that
you'd have to count on more than one player to solve the bleeding thing and
since player would not be protect from other players, the game would simple
desolve into player shooting player and not getting anywere.
Shawn said this wasn't so, Doom would run fine in sngle player mode. And
everything was fine.
Now if the whole point of Doom was to shoot player character, that would be
fine too, but I doubt it would be the same game.
USENET News System
>It's to early to have a complete list. Here is a list of those MOST LIKELY to
>be in the game.
>
>Fist
>Knife
>Rifle
>Machine Gun
>Plazma Gun
>BFG9000
>Chainsaw
>
Hahaha, BFG? That's good... Not holding my breath for this game, however... By the time it comes out,
I imagine it will be a par-quality game... Hype hype hype, delay delay delay... I do look forward to
playing it on our ethernet system, though... (before I die of old age)
- Richard
<%% K. V. H. %%>
USENET News System <ne...@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu> wrote:
>Hahaha, BFG? That's good... Not holding my breath for this game, however... By the time it comes out,
>I imagine it will be a par-quality game... Hype hype hype, delay delay delay.
True. If Terminator Rampage comes out before Dec. Doom will be less
impressive. There's a big difference from going from Wolf3d to playing
Terminator Rampage to playing Doom than from Wolf3d directly to Doom. Doom
will be great, but it probably won't have quite the "impression" factor if
games like Terminator Rampage come out first.
>playing it on our ethernet system, though... (before I die of old age)
>
>- Richard
--
\ ___ \ / _ / _ _____ / _____
--| :-----< : : ||| < | | |/ | : < | \___
/|___: / \ ---- --- \ ---- ---- __: \ /____
Thomas Head
FL> A better solution would be to scream 'DOWN' over the comm and your
FL> friends drops to the floor (by some kbd-button), and then you blast
FL> away on the monsters. Those who remained standing will have to learn to
FL> pay more attention. :)
There's a comm? This is sounding better all the time...
... Scott me up, Beamie!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
----
OASIS BBS * Ridgeland, MS * 1-601-853-2688 V.32BIS
Mississippi's Netmail Connection to the World!
Kane Tan
> True. If Terminator Rampage comes out before Dec. Doom will be less
> impressive. There's a big difference from going from Wolf3d to playing
> Terminator Rampage to playing Doom than from Wolf3d directly to Doom. Doom
> will be great, but it probably won't have quite the "impression" factor if
> games like Terminator Rampage come out first.
Isn't Terminator Rampage sated to be released in October '94?
K.
Shane Kelvin Richards
What is this Terminator Rampage, its the first time I have heard
mention of it. I take it its something similar to wolf3d. Is there a
press release/info or maybe piccy's floating around I could look at to get
some idea about this game.
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Shane Richards
u905...@cs.uow.edu.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Shawn Green
Initially, we had planned to include a "supernatural" weapon of sort. This is one of the features that
was removed. As far as a flamethrower, it isn't planned at the moment.
--
-Shawn Green (sh...@idsoftware.com)
Id Software
Send questions about Id software to he...@idsoftware.com
(NeXTmail OK).
ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] Id "Official" anonymous FTP site /pub/msdos/games/id Id games
Shawn Green
[deletes]
|> ID is not releasing the source.
|>
|> I don't know exactly what specs will be released. Certinly the networking
|> link-ins, level creation, and I expect a bunch of other easy stuff, but
|> there seems to be a prevailing idea on this newsgroup that with ID's
|> specification documentation Joe user will be able to sit down and add features
|> in xx minutes.
|>
|> I have seen hacks with real features added made from only the binaries, but
|> it's a whole different ball game (far less players).
|>
|> ID, _which_ specs will be released, and _what_ will be possible with them.
|> I think this clarification would be rather helpful.
Basically, we will be releasing the file formats, map formats, sound formats, possibly the net formats,
and how to use them. Your average user with no programming experince will not be able to do
anything with the spec. (not anytime soon anyway.)
Lee Scott
>|> And what about a good old flame thrower?
>
>Initially, we had planned to include a "supernatural" weapon of sort. This is one of the features that
>was removed. As far as a flamethrower, it isn't planned at the moment.
We want a flamethrower!!!!!
>
>--
>-Shawn Green (sh...@idsoftware.com)
-Lee Scott
Jim Knutson
>Really, guys. Any further argument over this is useless. Games don't create arguments, people do.
I dunno. Alot of my games have /arguments :-).
--
Jim Knutson | |
knu...@mcc.com --=oOo=--
cs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson +
Wk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six!
Sang Kim
Or (IRQ) conflicts ;)
--
Sang Kim | "How come we play war and not peace?"
ki...@panix.com | "Too few role models."
| -- Calvin & Hobbes (Bill Watterson)
Jay Wilbur
>
> >Fist
> >Knife
> >Rifle
> >Machine Gun
> >Plazma Gun
> >BFG9000
> >Chainsaw
>
> >This list is subject to change.
> Not to be pedantic or anything Jay, but didn't Id's Doom press release
> (you know the really old one ~ January) say that there will be some
> 'supernatural' weapons?
> (That is in the registered 3 episode version when you 'travel to other
> dimensions'.)
> From the list above I can qualify Plazma Gun for that. Is that it?
>
> And what about a good old flame thrower?
This is NOT a complete list and the list is subject to change. There WILL be
additions.
---
Jay Wilbur (j...@idsoftware.com) id Software
Send questions about id software to he...@idsoftware.com
(NeXTmail OK).
ftp.uwp.edu[131.210.1.4] id "Official" anonymous FTP site
/pub/msdos/games/id id games
/pub/msdos/games/id/home-brew id games' great add-ons
/pub/incoming/id Upload dir