486's vs Pentiums for most games
Scott Kearney
their annoying wall of tv-hype).
But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
'Nuther comparison.. WC3-at SVGA mode... It definitely went faster on
the p90 w/quad cd at work, than it did on my above friend's dx2 with ISA
card (which is an old ATI, btw), but only about 40% faster.. IOW,
definitely not TRIPLE or even quite DOUBLE the speed, like they would
have you think..
And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
a dx2-66 anyway... So, to sum up my point:
Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60?
Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
tho.. When will THOSE be out..
I'd be greatly interested in any speed comparisons on other games. I am
planning on getting a new computer soon, and am planning on a dx2-80.
But I don't want to make a wasteful decision.. If anyone can obliterate
my arguments and back them up as well, I am COMPLETELY open to that..
BTW, don't use the argument, if you buy a 60, you can buy a 90 chip and
plop it in later.. (or a 133, or a 150).. I've found by the time I
muster to buy a new chip, I want a new system anyway...
If you followup this post, please cc to my email address below (use the
jax one)
--
s
k e a r n e y (that's pronounced CAR-nee, don't mess it up!)
o
t email at: sk...@jax.jaxnet.com Running Os/2 WARP ga
t or: sk...@acs.bu.edu on a Thinkpad 500 :)
J. Nisbet
: Ok.. I'm writing this to sorta try to degrade intel (well, actually,
Darryl Okahata
> But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
1. Magic Carpet in SVGA mode.
2. System Shock in 640x480x256 mode.
Unfortunately, the "Pentium" that these games need for these modes
do not yet exist. ;-(
-- Darryl Okahata
Internet: dar...@sr.hp.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.
Christopher Mermagen
: Ok.. I'm writing this to sorta try to degrade intel (well, actually,
: But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
: with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
: slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
: smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
: details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
: goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
: at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
well, even with the Pentium, alot of these games in full-grafix mode
aren't as nice as I would expect (still choppy- like USNF).. however,
there is a definate difference in gameplay on some games (the
ones I have and notice this are Tie, Doom/heretic, Descent).. I used
to play these games on my friend's 486 dx2/66, and think hey, this
is great.. but the pentium is so smooth (and the 17" monitor helps).
Price justification.. there isn't one.. but oh well, when your an
electronic junkie.. :)
Jason Merrill
> Scott Kearney (sk...@jax.jaxnet.com) wrote:
>> But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
> 1. Magic Carpet in SVGA mode.
> 2. System Shock in 640x480x256 mode.
> Unfortunately, the "Pentium" that these games need for these modes
> do not yet exist. ;-(
Agreed, but I've found MC in SVGA mode to be quite playable on my P-90 with
all of the detail settings turned off. Certainly more playable than it was
in MCGA mode on my 486-33.
Jason
demo06
I don't have an opinion as of yet, but I say wait for Quake to make
decisions on the necessity of a Pentium :)
J. Nisbet
: And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
: a dx2-66 anyway...
Okay... Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces only run at peak speed because they are
programmed to conform to each individual computer. The slower the
computer, the lower the frame-rate; the faster the computer, the higher
the frame-rate. In these games, it will still take the same amount of
time to get from point A to point B on any computer... but on a superfast
computer, it will be a HECK of a lot smoother! Think: double the CPU
speed, double the frame-rate. Y'know, when I first got the Dark Forces
demo, I had a friend over to play it. He commented on how smooth it was,
and then went home to try it on his DX2/66. He later complained to me
that he couldn't stand playing it after seeing it on my Pentium. So, yes,
there IS a big difference. Heck, I thought these 3D games were running at
their best when I had a DX/33; I started having convulsions and the like
when I tried them out on my new computer.
So...
: who needs a pentium?
After running my games on my Pentium, I can't imagine playing them
(and enjoying them) on anything less; so.. quite frankly... I DO, I DO!
DHAACKE
cases when I really like my P90 include but are not limited to:
Those really big/poorly optimized Doom wads that brought the old 486 to
its
knees.
Doing anything in windows, especially Corel Draw.
Rendering (POVray. Vistapro, Fractint.)
The overall snappiness of the pentium is wonderful for a few days until
you
get used to it. After that the DX2/50 at work seems pokey, as does my
obsolete workstation that I mostly use as a text editor/X terminal.
IMHO only.
David Haacke
Adrian Mills
> their annoying wall of tv-hype).
>
> But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
> with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
> slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
> smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
> details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
> goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
> at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
>
A lot of these new-fangled games have variable frame rates so that the
time it takes to get from one place to another on one machine will
be the same on another, faster machine. There are also max frame rates
so that once you've reached this, playing on a faster machine wont
make the slightest difference! DOOM on a P90 and a P100 should look/feel
identical.
A *lot* of differences can be seen if the machines are setup differently;
as in the stuff in the config.sys and autoexec.bat. Maybe the machine
at work has got lots of crap that it loads up...
> And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
> a dx2-66 anyway... So, to sum up my point:
>
> Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
> say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
> difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60?
> Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
> Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
> IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
> when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
> the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
> and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
> You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
> tho.. When will THOSE be out..
>
Lots and lots of people have aleady got their replacement chips and
all new machines being shipped (as far as I know) have the new P's
installed.
> I'd be greatly interested in any speed comparisons on other games. I am
> planning on getting a new computer soon, and am planning on a dx2-80.
> But I don't want to make a wasteful decision.. If anyone can obliterate
> my arguments and back them up as well, I am COMPLETELY open to that..
>
> BTW, don't use the argument, if you buy a 60, you can buy a 90 chip and
> plop it in later.. (or a 133, or a 150).. I've found by the time I
> muster to buy a new chip, I want a new system anyway...
You can't upgrade a P60 to a P90 - different voltage technology. Intel
may come up with an overdrive chip though...
Magic carpet definitely needs the fastest machine you can afford.
I don't think there's a Pentium machine out there which can run it
as fast as its capable in Hi-res. And soon other game producers will
come out with games which need the power of the pentium to play them
to the best. You must remember that the comparisons you made were of
386/486 optimised games running on a 486 and pentium. A comparison
of 486 optimised games on a 486 against a pentium optimised game
on a pentium would be much more fair. Try to find someone with
MC on a 486 and on a Pentium and see the difference - MC has optimisations
for the pentium.
A *LOT* also has to do with the video card you get installed as well...
A 64 or 128 bit PCI card will make all the difference.
Basically my advise is: Buy a 3volt Pentium, either a P90 or P100
(as they will be upgradable to P120/P150 when/if they arrive) with
a fast graphics card preferably 64/128 bit but at least a 32 bit PCI
one. Also get at *least* 8 megs of ram, or better yet 16 megs - SVGA
games need a *lot* of ram!
Don't get a 486! Not even the DX4 - the 486 is dead and if you give
it long enough (a year or 2) all the best games will need a
pentium to be playable (IMHO the best game around, Magic carpet,
already does). Remember most games are 8not* optimised for the pentium
and when they are you'll see a *much* greater difference in speeds
to the 486.
I got a P66 when they came out and now I really wish I'd waited for
the P100 :(
131AA0000-RogersC(DR8926)273
>
>Don't get a 486! Not even the DX4 - the 486 is dead and if you give
>it long enough (a year or 2) all the best games will need a
>pentium to be playable (IMHO the best game around, Magic carpet,
>already does).
So last night, my 14-year-old son came home and plugged himself into
our 486 for 4 hours, all the while chuckling, groaning, and emitting
the occasional "cool" or "awesome". I figured it was probably Descent
or Heretic or ROTT, but when I wandered over to see what was so engaging,
all I saw was a screen full of text. He was doing the "Planetfall"
episode of the Zork Anthologies, an adventure game nearly identical
in style and substance to the "Adventure" I played back in '79 on 1/2-MIP
PDP11s. No graphics, no sound effects, no 3D, just words on the screen that
he has to actually *read*.
Now that the hook is set, I think I'll slip him a copy of "Snow Crash" or
"A Fire in the Deep".
The "best game around" is the one with the least limitations.
Chuck Rogers
--
Shadow Weaver
>well, even with the Pentium, alot of these games in full-grafix mode
>aren't as nice as I would expect (still choppy- like USNF).. however,
>there is a definate difference in gameplay on some games (the
>ones I have and notice this are Tie, Doom/heretic, Descent).. I used
>to play these games on my friend's 486 dx2/66, and think hey, this
>is great.. but the pentium is so smooth (and the 17" monitor helps).
I dunno, I can't really tell the diff. between Descent/Doom/Whatever on a
dx2/66 & a P90, its a little smoother, but not that much. I suppose the P90
wins out when there are tons of enemies to be displayed, but otherwise, a 486
is plenty for gaming..
As someone said before, they need faster Pentiums for games like Magic Carpet
in hi-res mode.. Even on a P90 its choppy as hell.. Its nice their thinking
ahead in anycase. :)
:: djam...@students.wisc.edu ..I dreamt of a
:::::: ::: ::: ship to bring
:::::: :: :: her..
:: : :
Steve Madsen
> well, even with the Pentium, alot of these games in full-grafix mode
> aren't as nice as I would expect (still choppy- like USNF)..
Yeah... I noticed this too. I run USNF on a p90 w/ 32 Mb of RAM and
a fast PCI video card, and USNF is just a bit too choppy at even 640x480 for
my tastes. I run it at 320x400 and it is *much* smoother. The video, btw,
does have the VESA extensions in hardware (if that makes a difference).
Should we contribute this to a bad compiler or bad code in general?
The Pentium has the potential to be MUCH faster than a 486 because of the
super pipelining, but it appears that even games that mention being
optimized for Pentium rarely are (exception: OMF in full speed mode is
hilariously unplayable; of course it used Watcom and they sell a damn nice
development system -- go figure).
--
Steve Madsen <sma...@cs.muohio.edu>
Systems Administrator/Programmer
Cliometric Society, Miami University
Adrian Mills
<G> It nice sometimes to be brought down to earth with a bump :)
But you're right, whats awesome to some people may not be to others.
I'm also an arch-wiz on a totally text based MUD and I still get
overawed by the stuff I see on there... But we were talking about
action/arcade games or at least I had assumed so :)
You should show him Magic Carpet if he already hasn't seen it - it
requires a little more thought than the usual shoot 'em up and it
fits in well with the D&D style of Zork.
Cheers,
Adrian
> Chuck Rogers
> --
Christopher Mermagen
: In article <3g063r$g...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> cme...@wam.umd.edu (Christopher Mermagen) writes:
: >well, even with the Pentium, alot of these games in full-grafix mode
: >aren't as nice as I would expect (still choppy- like USNF).. however,
: >there is a definate difference in gameplay on some games (the
: >ones I have and notice this are Tie, Doom/heretic, Descent).. I used
: >to play these games on my friend's 486 dx2/66, and think hey, this
: >is great.. but the pentium is so smooth (and the 17" monitor helps).
: I dunno, I can't really tell the diff. between Descent/Doom/Whatever on a
: dx2/66 & a P90, its a little smoother, but not that much. I suppose the P90
: wins out when there are tons of enemies to be displayed, but otherwise, a 486
: is plenty for gaming..
you are right.. the 486 is plenty for _current_ gaming.. and I guess it may be
a matter of opinion, but my friend who owns the 486 vowed never to
play doom on my P90 again, as he didn't want to be spoiled.. just
to give you an example.. :)
The problem is that in two years, the p90 will be outdated..
I can't keep up..
: As someone said before, they need faster Pentiums for games like Magic Carpet
: in hi-res mode.. Even on a P90 its choppy as hell.. Its nice their thinking
: ahead in anycase. :)
: :: : :
Robear
That's odd...I don't get any choppiness with P90, 16 MB, Diamond 64 PCI.
Except *maybe* briefly over a city with other planes and stuff. Every-
thing else is smooth as glass at 640.
Maybe you need a faster video card, or you have one of those hybrid
PCI/VLB motherboards?
David Pipes
Christopher Mermagen
: In article <1995Jan24.140252.37705@miavx1>,
: David Pipes
Hey David-
Do you have the graphics turned all the way up for every setting?
I have Diamond 64 PCI with 2 megs, P90 with 16 megs, etc etc..
Maybe I have a bottleneck somewhere, but it's not as smooth as I would
like it.. 640 is playable.. If I turn off one of the settings (like
land or air or sea texture), then it's smooth
x93...@wmich.edu
Scott Kearney (sk...@jax.jaxnet.com) wrote:
: Ok.. I'm writing this to sorta try to degrade intel (well, actually,
: their annoying wall of tv-hype).
Their Pentium ad always gets me laughing inside at Intel. For a while,
it was the most powerful PC processor than can't do math properly (and
strangely enough, a PC is really at the lowest level just binary math).
Okay, enough degrading, so they finally came to their senses.
: But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
: with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
: slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
: smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
: details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
: goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
: at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
BIG question... since I haven't tried Descent yet, what screen size and
detail level? After trying SVGA games recently, I'm totally addicted to
the graphics quality. You'd need the P5-90 PCI/VLB video to play high
detail SVGA games (this will be the wave of tomorrow, mind you, as
640x480x256 becomes more suppored... finally!). System Shock full screen
with maximum detail, WCIII SVGA full detail + cockpit close to capships
is where you should try out the difference. Same reports I've seen with
USNF posts.
: 'Nuther comparison.. WC3-at SVGA mode... It definitely went faster on
: the p90 w/quad cd at work, than it did on my above friend's dx2 with ISA
: card (which is an old ATI, btw), but only about 40% faster.. IOW,
: definitely not TRIPLE or even quite DOUBLE the speed, like they would
: have you think..
Uh, but the true test is when you fly real close to capships and inside
the hanger of capships (with full detail on). Then, the differences
becomes more distinct. I can live with a DX2/66 plus local bus graphics
(system 14 video 2) but still when it comes to those capships, all things
slow down.
: And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
: a dx2-66 anyway... So, to sum up my point:
If that's all you want to do, for now, its fine. Wait till you get Doom
III plus Heretic II and Dark Forces II with SVGA 640x480x256... and you'll
die for a Pentium. And I'd like to get Magic Carpet and play it in SVGA
(and people think 8MB WCIII is bad, Magic Carpet wants 16MB RAM to do
this!).
: Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
: say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
: difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60
: Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
: Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
: IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
: when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
: the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
: and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
: You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
: tho.. When will THOSE be out..
Most new systems now might have de-bugged Pentiums in them... especiall
P5-90s. The P5-60 are mostly still bug-ridden creatures (and their
5 volt design is another negative). Look for a P5-90, or the P5-75
when it appears... P5-100s are too scarce and expensive for now. And
forget the P5-60, it just isn't worth the price difference as you say.
: I'd be greatly interested in any speed comparisons on other games. I am
: planning on getting a new computer soon, and am planning on a dx2-80.
: But I don't want to make a wasteful decision.. If anyone can obliterate
: my arguments and back them up as well, I am COMPLETELY open to that..
I won't obliterate them... you need to think for yourself. If you go
with a P5-90, there's a good chance it'll last to the next generation
of games (SVGA action, flight-sims especially). I'd say most SVGA
non-action/flight-sim games run very well on a DX2/66. Still, I find
the P5-90 very attractive... for me, VGA is a thing of the past.
: BTW, don't use the argument, if you buy a 60, you can buy a 90 chip and
: plop it in later.. (or a 133, or a 150).. I've found by the time I
: muster to buy a new chip, I want a new system anyway...
Right. I just feel the 486 option today is bare minimum. It will be
okay for a year yet, maybe 2 at most. 8MB ram, 2x CD-ROM all at the
bottom of the ladder. Thing is, the P5-90s today aren't incredibly
more expensive, you don't have to pay 2x more to get a P5-90 over a
486. One other bit of argument... buy something branded (cheap
PCs just aren't worth the pain), eg. Compaq, IBM, HP are great choices,
for a slightly lower choice, I'd choose Acer (most like Dell/Micron
but I can't figure out stuff like terrible keyboards and serial mouse
being the Micron/Dell standard... for me, the serial mouse is an
abomination). Buy a quality system, and you will be very satisfied,
and the money spent isn't even felt after the point. Buy an el-cheapo,
cry later. Just my experience, I've never been happy with compromises
(that's the whole point of the word... compromise).
Then again, even a P5-90 still isn't powerful enough to run super
smooth SVGA games yet... maybe till a CPU that runs USNF/MC SVG
full detail SVGA, save your money and buy a 486 for now? Then you
might also consider an el-cheapo (since you can throw it away in
a year). I'm not all too happy about having to switch PCs all the
time, but that's the way the industry is, and this isn't a cheap
hobby to keep up with. At least the monitor is keepable... since
even for 640x480, a 15-inch is my choice... bigger monitor and all
the old VGA stuff will look like pixeled crap.
Adrian Chew :-)
Ben Moore
>
>Ok.. I'm writing this to sorta try to degrade intel (well, actually,
>their annoying wall of tv-hype).
>
>But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
>with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
>slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
>smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
>details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
>goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
>at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
>
>'Nuther comparison.. WC3-at SVGA mode... It definitely went faster on
>the p90 w/quad cd at work, than it did on my above friend's dx2 with ISA
>card (which is an old ATI, btw), but only about 40% faster.. IOW,
>definitely not TRIPLE or even quite DOUBLE the speed, like they would
>have you think..
If it's running any faster, it SHOULDN'T be... it should be going smoother!
But the speed of the gameplay should remain constant, or at least near it...
And it does! I've played all those games too... Descent on the 486DX2 with
Diamond Stealth (or Speedster, can't remember) Pro ISA, 16 megs of ram, vs.
a p90, ATI Graphics Pro Turbo PCI (oh yeah!), 16 megs... the p90 was SOOOOOO
much smoother... no where NEAR as choppy as the dx2... in fact, the p90
wasn't choppy at all! the dx2 got about 5 frames a second, when the pentium
got at least 30! wc3?! Just TRY playing it in SVGA on the dx2! Same two
systems, both double speeds (the DX2 has the Texel, damn good double speed!),
both had everything installed to the hd... the dx2 gets 2, maybe 3 frames a
second with one or two enemies on screen... on the p90, you get 20! There
are many games out there that really NEED a Pentium to run well, especially
in SVGA... try Nascar Racing out in SVGA... full detail, on a p90... is
almost bearable... on a DX2... there's no way you could play it! Even a p90
isn't fast enough for that!
>And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
>a dx2-66 anyway... So, to sum up my point:
That is complete bullshit... have you ever seen any of these games on any
Pntium? I've only seen it on a 60, but this is what we got... With Doom II,
on the same DX2 system as before, in a particularly highly detailed area,
we got 1-2 frames per second... on the p60, we got 15! Didn't run faster,
but a hell of a lot smoother and easier!
>Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
>say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
>difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60?
>Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
>Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
>IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
>when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
>the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
>and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
>You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
>tho.. When will THOSE be out..
On the other hand, you could go with the AMD, and face unforseen
compatibility problems with all non-Intel chips... don't get me wrong, I
abhor Intel... they make far too great a profit off their technology... IMHO,
that's a sin... <grin> They really piss me off, but there is no other
option... I've had my problems with non-Intel chips, and I have sworn off
them completely... this chip I have here is the last non-Intel I'm going to
get for a long time... believe me, I will praise God the day that Intel
falls, but until then, they're the ONLY option for efficient x86 platform
computing...
>BTW, don't use the argument, if you buy a 60, you can buy a 90 chip and
>plop it in later.. (or a 133, or a 150).. I've found by the time I
>muster to buy a new chip, I want a new system anyway...
Actually, you can't... p60-66's require different motherboards than the p90-
100's... basically, because the p60 and p66 are 5 volt chips, the others
are 3.3....
Ben Moore
>You can't upgrade a P60 to a P90 - different voltage technology. Intel
>may come up with an overdrive chip though...
>(as they will be upgradable to P120/P150 when/if they arrive) with
>a fast graphics card preferably 64/128 bit but at least a 32 bit PCI
>one. Also get at *least* 8 megs of ram, or better yet 16 megs - SVGA
>games need a *lot* of ram!
Actually, according to my January '95 issue of Computer Shopper, the p150
might run its core at 2.5 volts... so that makes it unusable in the 90/100/
120 boards... and, according tot his article, the 120's are rumored to be
clock-doubling chips... that would really suck! Ah well... a lot can change
though... the 120 isn't due out till summer, the 150 in winter! <sigh>
>Don't get a 486! Not even the DX4 - the 486 is dead and if you give
>it long enough (a year or 2) all the best games will need a
>pentium to be playable (IMHO the best game around, Magic carpet,
>already does). Remember most games are 8not* optimised for the pentium
>and when they are you'll see a *much* greater difference in speeds
>to the 486.
Complete agreement with ya on that... I'm running Magic Carpet on a 486DLC/40
in MCGA... even then it's choppy! It's so SLOOOOOOOW!!! It's unplayable in
3D Glasses mode... stereogram mode is COOL!!! speedy as normal mode, but
I can't make anything out... and hills look layered, but I guess that's
normal... it just doesn't look right in this game...
Chan Hoong Keong
> Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
> say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
> difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60?
Is this an established fact? I know Pentium 60 is quite slow in clock
speed but the dual-cache seems to have a lot in speeding up program
execution.
> I'd be greatly interested in any speed comparisons on other games. I am
> planning on getting a new computer soon, and am planning on a dx2-80.
> But I don't want to make a wasteful decision.. If anyone can obliterate
> my arguments and back them up as well, I am COMPLETELY open to that..
>
> BTW, don't use the argument, if you buy a 60, you can buy a 90 chip and
> plop it in later.. (or a 133, or a 150).. I've found by the time I
> muster to buy a new chip, I want a new system anyway...
My reasoning is always to go with the CPU that you think can last until
your next upgrade. Let's face it, we all know no CPU is ever fast
enough as time goes by. Software publishers will eventually ignore
older CPUs and write new software that demands better processing power.
So if you think DX2-80 will last for 2 years before it loses software
publisher's support, and you will definitely upgrade after 2 years, go
for DX2-80.
--
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my
Martijn Dekker
:
:Scott Kearney (sk...@jax.jaxnet.com) wrote:
[some drivel deleted]
:
:: But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a DX2-66
:: with an ISA video card, and it went almost as fast (prob about 10%-15%
:: slower) than a p60.. A thinkpad 755 with dx4-75 made the gap seem even
:: smaller, and was probably only 5-10% slower.. This is at the same
:: details and screen sizes of course.. BTW, I have no idea why the ISA dx2
:: goes so nicely.. It even beats out the dx2-66 with stealth viper (2megs)
:: at work.. Weird.. Is the stealth just really crappy for dos?
:
:BIG question... since I haven't tried Descent yet, what screen size and
:detail level? After trying SVGA games recently, I'm totally addicted to
I played descent on my 486dx2/66, 8Mb RAM, on highest detail level, biggest
screen and it runs as smooth and fast as you can imagine! definately
no pentium needed here.
[more deletia]
:: And of course, Doom&Heretic&Dark Forces will be running on peak speed on
:: a dx2-66 anyway... So, to sum up my point:
:
:If that's all you want to do, for now, its fine. Wait till you get Doom
:III plus Heretic II and Dark Forces II with SVGA 640x480x256... and you'll
:die for a Pentium. And I'd like to get Magic Carpet and play it in SVGA
:(and people think 8MB WCIII is bad, Magic Carpet wants 16MB RAM to do
:this!).
yes, within a year I will need to upgrade to a pentium. but not to play
DoomIII or Heretic II, but to play _really_ new games.
--
Martijn Dekker +--- Ishido by PFF software ---+
University of Amsterdam | For info about this great puzzle game: |
Math department | finger -l mde...@turing.fwi.uva.nl or |
E-mail: mde...@fwi.uva.nl | http://www.fwi.uva.nl/~mdekker/home.html |
Christan E Schoenfeld
Most games are including SVGA modes and this trend is not going away.
I think 320x200 has been the biggest obstacle to be overcome in a long
time, and all I can say is GOOD RIDANCE! Play WCIII in SVGA mode, and
you wil NEVER play it in VGA mode again (It looks HOORRIBLE!).
WCIII, NASCAR, MAGIC CARPET, DAWN PATROL, US NAVY FIGHTERS, FIGHTER WING,
and MANY of the new multimedia CD-ROM games can use SVGA and the graphics
are MUCH better on all of them - a landmark improvement IMHO. By and large,
SVGA games will not even approach smooth playability on ANY 486, and most
will need a P90 (there are exceptions).
I just bought a P90, and I THANK GOD I didn't settle for a dx2/66. Now I
need 16 megs RAM so I can play WCIII without ship comm stalls, and Magic
Carpet in SVGA mode. Descent also needs 16 megs if you don't want
occasional load pauses. I have even been considering doing an overclock
with a switch.
If you are going to buy a complete system, I would advise ANYONE to
desperately get a P90 if you are going to spend $1800 or more (It CAN
be done, sacrificing some stuff - I got anice system for $2080. P90 with
16 megs and a quad cd-rom (Mitsumi rulz) is now the mainstream platform
for real gaming. I'm not busting people with a 486 - if your're playing
VGA you're pretty much golden with a 66 - but SVGA is a reality and it's
worth the additional hardware, IMHO.
--
Chris Schoenfeld | "If you have the means, I highly
Communications/Political Science Senior | recommend it."
University of New Hampshire c...@unh.edu | -Ferris Beuler
bate...@buck.com
> Scott Kearney (sk...@jax.jaxnet.com) wrote:
>
> > But how many games really NEED a pentium? I'm played Descent on a
DX2-66
>
> 1. Magic Carpet in SVGA mode.
> 2. System Shock in 640x480x256 mode.
3. Nascar Racing SVGA
4. Dawn Patrol
And pretty much any other game that runs in SVGA mode....
--------------------------------------------------------------
Interviewer: "So, Mr. Horse, what did you think of that fall?"
Mr. Horse: "Hmmmmmmm...... No sir, I didn't like it."
--------------------------------------------------------------
Robear
Well, turns out I was seeing some non-disruptive choppiness, and
just factored it out because it never got to the jumpy stage. I
guess I am used to lower performance.
I tested with everything on except sea and sky, and cockpit
and mirrors turned on. Just get a slight chop low down in
the hills over the river in Down and Dirty, so that is good
enough for me.
But the smooth as glass would not quite be right, as my
mind was apparently editing...:-) I do consider it fine,
and there is no annoying jumping of targets or like that.
David Pipes
Allen Kim
>>Who needs a pentium? Considering the fairly large price gap between,
>>say, an AMD dx2-80 computer and a mere P60, with probably very little
>>difference between them, performance wise, why would you get the p60?
I think the general rule of thumb is:
486 SX/25 is slightly faster than the 386 DX/40
Pentium 60 is slightly faster than the 486 DX4/100
In the same chip category, the faster the MHz, the faster the chip.
Trust me, the AMD DX2/80 is no Pentium in speed. I know; I have the 3.3V
version of the DX2/80 running as a DX4/100, and although I'm enjoying fast
speeds, it's not quite up to Pentium levels.
>>Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
>>Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
>>IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
>>when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
>>the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
>>and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
>>You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
>>tho.. When will THOSE be out..
OK, last time: Games will not use the FPU, since using fixed point is faster
than using floating point at anytime. (Yes, I know a version of Falcon 3.0
uses the FPU, but its performance is no different than the regular version.)
>On the other hand, you could go with the AMD, and face unforseen
>compatibility problems with all non-Intel chips... don't get me wrong, I
>abhor Intel... they make far too great a profit off their technology... IMHO,
>that's a sin... <grin> They really piss me off, but there is no other
>option... I've had my problems with non-Intel chips, and I have sworn off
>them completely... this chip I have here is the last non-Intel I'm going to
>get for a long time... believe me, I will praise God the day that Intel
>falls, but until then, they're the ONLY option for efficient x86 platform
>computing...
Considering that I just finished an internship with Intel, and that I'm
currently considering returning to Intel after graduation, not everyone will
be praising the Lord the day that Intel falls. (BTW, my department had
little contact with anyone working on the Pentium designs, in case you were
wondering.)
- The ninja formerly known as Allen Kim
Brian Anton Kreulen
>
> I think the general rule of thumb is:
>
> 486 SX/25 is slightly faster than the 386 DX/40
> Pentium 60 is slightly faster than the 486 DX4/100
> In the same chip category, the faster the MHz, the faster the chip.
>
> Trust me, the AMD DX2/80 is no Pentium in speed. I know; I have the 3.3V
> version of the DX2/80 running as a DX4/100, and although I'm enjoying fast
> speeds, it's not quite up to Pentium levels.
>
a p60.....
>
> >>Especially with that eerie pentium bug, that could strike at anytime..
> >>Yeah, I know it's about as frequent as winning the lotto, but hey, WHAT
> >>IF it happened while doing your taxes? Can you afford to take the risks,
> >>when you can get a cheaper computer almost as fast? What if you are on
> >>the tail of an X-wing, and you fire a concussion at him, and it suddenly,
> >>and rather completely VEERS right off course? Faulty guidance system?
> >>You bet. Intel-built. Cheers to them for offering the free replacement
> >>tho.. When will THOSE be out..
I called Intel, and they said by the end of the month (very shortly) they
should start sending out info about replacing the chips.
Simon
(3dbench - 62.5; WCIII 12, 1) and I can run most SVGA games at a
playable level. WCIII is absolutely fine in SVGA with high detail (it
slows a *little* near a cap ship but its not too bad.) Magic carpet is
great in SVGA with sky and soften off. Of course I would like a p90 but
I think its more to do with someones expectations of 'smoothness'. What
I can play and enjoy you may find jerky and horrible...
r_w...@telebit.com
In article <3ghd0u$l...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, <bakr...@eos.ncsu.edu> writes:
> > Trust me, the AMD DX2/80 is no Pentium in speed. I know; I have the 3.3V
> > version of the DX2/80 running as a DX4/100, and although I'm enjoying fast
> > speeds, it's not quite up to Pentium levels.
> >
> Are you sure about this??? (I had always thought that a DX4-100 is faster
than
> a p60.....
>
The DX4/100 and the P60 are very close. The real deciding factor in most cases
is not the CPU but the motherboard it's on. A well designed board with a good
cache implimentation with a DX4/100 will easily blow away a poorly designed
Pentium board with a P60. And vice-verse. If software was actually compiled for
the Pentium, the P60 would start to pull ahead, but nobody is doing that today.
Rick
Grate4dead
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