** "Official" v1.2 Distribution **
douglas craig holland
Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>
> * v1.2 will now return to lightning speed (no more v1.1 mollasses)
>
Does this mean a faster frame rate? Doom is kind of sluggish on my 386/33.
Doug Holland
--
| Doug Holland | Proud member of:
| hol...@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu | Mathematicians Against Drunk Deriving
| Finger for PGP 2.2 key |
Gordon Shephard
>In article <2j967j$5...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
>Hank Leukart <ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>>
>> * v1.2 will now return to lightning speed (no more v1.1 mollasses)
>>
>Does this mean a faster frame rate? Doom is kind of sluggish on my 386/33.
On a related query:
Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
and only 4 Meg of Ram.
(I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
you are unable to shoot monsters because a single movement of the mouse
will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
lea...@leafey.enet.dec.com
--
>>and only 4 Meg of Ram.
I play DOOM on a 486-33 SX box with a Trident-8900C-based 1 mB video
card and I have the same basic complaints... jerky movement, difficulty aiming,
etc. I was briefly able to swap in a Cirrus-based accelerated video card and
performance was MUCH better. Unfortunately, the card did not live up to it's
billing (didn't do truecolor at 640x480) so I returned it. This was without
a doubt the cheapest way for me to improve DOOM's performance, about $70. I
am looking at another Cirrus-based card, the Diamond Speedstar Pro, which runs
a bit higher in price but WILL do truecolor.
==============================================================================
Jay Leafey Internet: lea...@leafey.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation CIS: 70105,1102
Memphis, TN GEnie: J.LEAFEY
==============================================================================
Christopher Bolin
: Okay, to answer this FAQ, here is the CORRECT, "Official"
: information.
: The shareware and registered versions of the 1.2 patch will be
: available via FTP, major online services, and Software Creations.
: Additionally, the v1.2 patch will be sent to all customers
: WHO ORDERED FROM THE 800-ID-GAMES NUMBER, regardless of whether they live
: in the US. If you are a customer who obtained DOOM from an out-of-States
: distributor, you may still obtain the patch for free FROM THE DISTRIBUTOR.
: Out of the country requests for the patch to id Software will not be honored,
: unless you are a registered user.
Hank,
The burning question you still haven't answered is...
What will the filenames be? It would be nice to have them
for both the reg and shareware patch files.
Christopher
Doug DeJulio
Gordon Shephard <shep...@fraser.sfu.ca> wrote:
> Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
> and only 4 Meg of Ram.
>
> (I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
> the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
> the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
> you are unable to shoot monsters because a single movement of the mouse
> will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
I've got a 486DX2-66 with a Trident 1 meg card and 8M of RAM. Trident
video cards just *suck*.
You can adjust how quick Doom is by adjusting the display. The F5 key
will toggle between hires and lores mode. The + and - keys by the
backspace key up top will change the size of the window. Use these
enough and at some point you should get good, smooth performance.
So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
in full-screen mode at hires? I also have problems with video
bandwidth and The 7th Guest. Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so
once I can afford a good card...
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Jared J Alford
> o Perfect gameplay under Windows
Will it have perfect gameplay under Windows running on a machine w/only
4 MB ram? My soundcard uses DOS extenders to emulate soundblaster in
DOS, so Doom is soundless. Mortal Kombat (which also uses DOS extenders)
has sound when run in Windows with my sound card, but I can't run it
in Windows w/only 4 MB ram.
--
**********************************************************
** Jared Alford ** **
** alf...@mn.ecn.purdue.edu ** Fight the Turnip. **
** j...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu ** **
**********************************************************
Ed Haymore
| So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
| in full-screen mode at hires? I also have problems with video
| bandwidth and The 7th Guest. Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so
| once I can afford a good card...
DOOM looks great on high-res, full screen on my 486-66 with an Orchid
Fahrenheit 1280+ VLB. I paid about $150 for mine (including
shipping)... (Xfree is fast, too.)
--
Ed Haymore | AA6EJ
e...@byu.edu | Es perillos abocar-se.
Steven Gershenfeld
Any Cirrus-Logic VLB card (one can be had for about $110 I think or less),
is good. I get a Bench-3D score of around 40 or so on a 486/50DX.
Make sure you get the card with 1 meg of memory (at least) and it can
support 16.8 million colors (whether you will ever use it debatable...)
I can run full screen hi-res no problem.
Steven
Normen Kurt Strobel
and it runs just great. On some levels the more monsters, the more jumpy
it gets, but it is still playable. I would definitely check your CMOS
and if tht doesn't help get more ram. I borrowed 4 megs from my roomate, and
the game just flows.
David W. Lehman
for the C64, but I think it would be great to have a "DOOM construction
set". It could be a totally new effort, of just maybe a new front end
written that would access several of the great utilities that have been and
are being written for DOOM. Just think, all these features under one roof:
- Editing of all sound clips (a la DMAUD)
- Editing of graphics images -\
- Editing of music _/-- supposedly being worked on
- Map editor (if and when one comes out)
- Editing of saved game files (a la DMEDIT)
- Randomizing of levels (RANDOOM, et al)
Having all this under a good graphical front end (maybe under Windows) would
certainly extend DOOM's replay value almost infinitely. So, anyone have
enough time on there hands?
----
Dave Lehman
umle...@ccu.umanitoba.ca
----
Timothy B Martin
"Official" v1.2 Distribu.. by Hank Leukart@cleveland.F
> o A new "NIGHTMARE difficulty" in which: (TOO EASY?! hahaha...)
> + All missile weapons fire twice as fast
> + Pink demons move twice as fast
> + Both types of former humans shoot 3 times as often
> + Monsters randomly teleport in to the level, infinitely,
> making over 100% ratios possible!
Does this mean that the LMP recordings will not work properly? A friend
and I figure if the guys are teleporting in RANDOMLY then it might
happen when you play back the demo. Sorta like RanDOOM right? I wonder
if there will be anyway to avoid this cuz i would think that the
Nightmare level will warrent quite a few recorded sessions won't it!??
Just a thought..
------------------=============> Tim! <===============---------------------
| Email? "Sleep is good, |
| tm...@andrew.cmu.edu Dreams are better." |
| IRC - Xeltar ~A.J.C. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damian Frank
: > making over 100% ratios possible!
: Does this mean that the LMP recordings will not work properly? A friend
: and I figure if the guys are teleporting in RANDOMLY then it might
: happen when you play back the demo. Sorta like RanDOOM right? I wonder
: if there will be anyway to avoid this cuz i would think that the
: Nightmare level will warrent quite a few recorded sessions won't it!??
My guess is no. Mosters currently move and shoot randomly, you know...I
would guess that it saves the random seed in the .LMP, so that when the demo
is played back, the same random sequence can be generated. If this is the
case, nightmare should work fine.
Damian
131P2[sfm]-k.e.roser(MT4084)1047MT
>
>So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
>in full-screen mode at hires? I also have problems with video
>bandwidth and The 7th Guest. Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so
>once I can afford a good card...
>
I have a 486DX2-66 and get great performance at high detail and default
screen size (full screen except for the status bar on the bottom) using
a Tseng ET-4000 based ISA bus video card. I typically get two,
occasionally 3 dots on the -devparm mode.
Howard Wilson
: Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
: and only 4 Meg of Ram.
Wow. You just described my system. Need to upgrade to at least 8 meg one
of these days...but that is unrelated to Doom, just me wishing again.
: (I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
: the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
: the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
: you are unable to shoot monsters because a single movement of the mouse
: will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
Two suggestions. Go ahead and start twiddling, or stop using the mouse.
While mine is certainly NOT lightning fast, it does leave vapor trails
as it zooms. Esp those pink bastards. One second at the far end of the hall,
next second tearing chunks outta my butt. However, I use the keyboard
to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
control. I don't have a joystick, so can't judge that.
However, at times there is a little slowdown when it accesses the disk for
scenery. I need to run smartdrive or something before I run doom...
Howard Wilson II
--
Stile, Howard Wilson II, and any other names I might use can be reached at:
st...@okcforum.osrhe.edu | "Remember, the truth that once was spoken:
I speak for no one but myself, | to love another person is to see the face
and no one else speaks for me. | of God." - Les Miserables
Doug DeJulio
Oh, the game runs fine. It's that "jumpy" business I don't like. Run
the thing in full screen mode on hi resolution. Now turn on low
resolution and make the window really tiny. See the difference in how
smooth the animation is? I want it to be maximally smooth while it's
full screen hires. It's *playable* even when it's a little less
smooth, but I don't enjoy it as much. Only half the fun is the actual
gameplay, the other half of the fun is the audiovisual immersion.
Heh, I can't wait until Friday when I get my full Pro Audio Spectrum
support. Stereo DOOM!
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Henrikki T H{kk{nen
ET4000/w32i chip). DOOM is _lightning_ fast! 1-2 dots dev-mode
turned on.
BTW, how the number of dots are converted into fps?
Doom on!
--
! Henrikki T. Hakkanen he...@vipunen.hut.fi !
! Helsinki University of Technology !
! "Wasted youth is better by far that a wise and productive old age" !
! -Jim Steinman- !
Mel Piepho
>Gordon Shephard <shep...@fraser.sfu.ca> wrote:
>> Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
>> and only 4 Meg of Ram.
>>
>> (I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
>> the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
>> the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
>> you are unable to shoot monsters because a single movement of the mouse
>> will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
>
>I've got a 486DX2-66 with a Trident 1 meg card and 8M of RAM. Trident
>video cards just *suck*.
>
fine. I'll have to check how many dot I get in devparm mode. More is
better, right? I've played doom on a 486DX-33, 8meg, diamond speedstar
ET4000 something, SB-pro, it was smooth and I didn't notice any
jerkyness. On my 486-66, 8meg, 8900C, GUS, it seems to be about the
same frame rate. The 8900C card does do hi-color, BTW. I just needed
to use this driver called "univesa". The driver that didn't come with
by card but probably should have didn't work in hi-color. Maybe my
standards are too low, until today I was stuck on a 386-20 with a
Renaissance "Suck" II card.
1
: to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse. If you want to strafe
just sssslightly to the right, you just move the mouse the tiniest bit.
You wanna crawl forward, move the mouse forward. You wanna run, move it
fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
having to pick it up over and over in order to run a long distance in one
direction. But the gains in normal control precision outweigh this minor
annoyance.
--
[ pin...@access.digex.net ]
[ I'll show you the life of the mind! ]
Barry Bloom
Pick up the mouse? I just use a combination of the shift-right mouse button
to run. The mouse never moves very much at all.
The cool thing about mouse control (I have mastered both control types) is
the ability to spin much faster than the shift-spin on the keyboard. With the
right sensitivity, you can spin around instantly in one swift motion. This
allows some cool, albeit unnecessary, movements. Once 1.2 comes out and
we get back lightning speed, I'll upload a .lmp showing some mouse play
that could NEVER be duplicated on the keyboard. I call it superman-mode.
I would upload it now, but the disk access really slows things down, even on
my 66. :(
--
ba...@noc.unt.edu I am convinced that UFOs exist
because I've seen one
-Jimmy Carter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normen Kurt Strobel
>the thing in full screen mode on hi resolution. Now turn on low
>smooth the animation is? I want it to be maximally smooth while it's
>full screen hires. It's *playable* even when it's a little less
>smooth, but I don't enjoy it as much. Only half the fun is the actual
>gameplay, the other half of the fun is the audiovisual immersion.
>Heh, I can't wait until Friday when I get my full Pro Audio Spectrum
>support. Stereo DOOM!
I know what you mean. I'm only saying that memory is you main
problem. I have a crappy video card but with 8 megs of ram, I can play with
the full screen, with no lag.
Your right about the audio visual experience, try doom on a 21 inch
screen, and try not to flinch. I also have a PAS 16, one of the best cards
out on the market, except hardly anybody supports it. When ID says it will
support stereo sound, do they mean when we enter a room, we can tell which
side of the room the imps are, by the sound? Or do they mean we can listen
to the music in stereo.
-Norm
Lewis Beard
> Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
> control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse. If you want to strafe
> just sssslightly to the right, you just move the mouse the tiniest bit.
> You wanna crawl forward, move the mouse forward. You wanna run, move it
> fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
> having to pick it up over and over in order to run a long distance in one
> direction. But the gains in normal control precision outweigh this minor
> annoyance.
different playing styles with each. One thing that I feel that the mouse is
terrible for (relative to the keyboard) is related to accuracy, and i guess
related to the long run problem. With the keyboard, if i'm in a flat out run,
and i go around a corner in a flat out run, or especially if i'm doing a lot
of fast swinging motion, i can easily pick off very small targets in the middle
of a blurry swing. But since running forward is a little harder with a mouse,
especially simulating the forward_arrow + left_arrow + shift run-and-turn
maneuver, its also harder to pick off targets as accurately. I occasionally
miss, or have to slow down about a 5th of a second to make 100% sure I'll
hit.
Of course, the mouse is a jem for dodging, due to some weird sidestep and bob
movements that can be done. Anyway, both are awesome, the keyboard and
the mouse, especially in conjunction (i dont mean the keys that you
HAVE to use from the kbd, i mean mixing up playing styles in a game,
esp in multiplayer, unless you get caught in the change by another player ..
but i just dont let that happen :)).
MY question is about the joystick. What are people's playing styles like
with that? I can't dodge as well with that, and i waste valuable time in
having to make a hand motion (as opposed to a finger motion) to
do anything significant when i'm desperate. Plus, I cant achieve amazing
accuracy with a joystick. Maybe its the way i think. I have a gravis analog
pro. Maybe i need to play with one of those tiny finger-held type joysticks,
like the small kraft joysticks. :) What are yall's opinions?
Lewis
Michael Foegelle
Just buy a track ball and get it over with! The ONLY real way to play games
like DOOM and X-wing are with a track ball. You get the precision control of
a mouse without the running all over the desk and the lift and move problem.
I tell ya, before I got a track ball, I could never loop my X-wing fast enough
to stay on some of those fighters whizzing by. The mouse was a pain in the
butt, and joystick control was almost hopeless. But with a track ball, it's
just a quick spin of the ball and you're turned around and where you want to
be! (Note, sometimes it's almost TOO good! I've had it flip around so fast
that I assume the program gets lost, or else is programmed to behave that way,
but control of the X-wing is lost for a bit and it kind of does a tail-spin!
It's lotsa fun though watching the stars whiz by out of control!) At any rate,
DOOM works GREAT with a track ball. It's a breeze moving around, and moving
in map mode is even easier!
Michael Foegelle
--
Michael Foegelle | Call Wunderland BBS! | foeg...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
University of | (512) 472-0544 8n1 | foeg...@utaphy.ph.utexas.edu
Texas at Austin | 14.4kbaud, v.32/bis | GEnie: M.FOEGELLE2
Physics Department | 500 megs on a //e! | > Ask me about Columns //e! <
Carter T. Shock
go forward.
--
this is a .signature
Marshall Ward
: > fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
: > having to pick it up over and over in order to run a long distance in one
: > direction. But the gains in normal control precision outweigh this minor
: > annoyance.
: terrible for (relative to the keyboard) is related to accuracy, and i guess
: related to the long run problem. With the keyboard, if i'm in a flat out run,
: and i go around a corner in a flat out run, or especially if i'm doing a lot
What long run problem? Push the middle mouse button, you'll run as long as
you like without moving the mouse at all. This makes it easy to hit those
nasty rising hidden doors in level 3. I just push the middle button and only
have to worry about steering.
Marshall
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marshall G. Ward, III Phone: 707-577-3415 |
| Hewlett-Packard Company FAX: 707-577-5433 |
| Microwave Instruments Division UNIX: ma...@sr.hp.com |
| 1400 Fountaingrove Parkway, 4UST TELNET: 1-577-3415 |
| Santa Rosa, California, USA |
| 95403 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|-"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know"------|
|-------------------------------------------------------------KANSAS--------|
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chunyan Huang
Hi. I put the shareware version of DOOM in our company's shared file system
a week ago and now everyone in my group is addicted. However, I could not
get NetDoom to work and my life is like hell. I have 30 mails every day
asking for NetDoom. Could some one help me please?
Our system is running PATHWORK connecting a bunch of DEC stations and PCs.
We use
DEPCA DE-100 Ethernet Card
DEPCA Turbo 203/204/205 Ethernet Card.
I followed the instructions in FAQ. But "IPXODI.COM" always says I need
to install the ethernet card driver first, which I did by running the
PATHWORK driver.
What was the problem? Is there any other network card ODI driver that
supports these types of cards?
Thanks a lot.
Gary
Hunting the Snark
In article <2jdisu$j...@news1.digex.net>, pin...@access1.digex.net (1) writes...
.>: ...However, I use the keyboard
.>: to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
.>: control...
.>
.>Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
.>control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse. If you want to strafe
.>just sssslightly to the right, you just move the mouse the tiniest bit.
.>You wanna crawl forward, move the mouse forward. You wanna run, move it
.>fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
.>having to pick it up over and over in order to run a long distance in one
.>direction.
try holding down the right button to move forward (in DOOM ). In Wolf I was
just starting to get the hang of using the cursor keys for propulsion (forward
and back) and the mouse for steering and shooting before I stopped pplaying to
make room for some new thing.
Sm
Doug DeJulio
>problem. I have a crappy video card but with 8 megs of ram, I can play with
>the full screen, with no lag.
But I've *got* 8 megs, and it's not smooth.
Now that I know what the dots mean when you start up with "doom
-devparm", I've got some data. With the image taking up almost the
whole screen in hires mode, I get three or four dots, with the fifth
one flickering. If I put it in lores mode and shrink the screen
twice, I get only one dot with the second flickering. That
three-or-four dot animation is too jumpy for me, but the one dot
animation kicks ass.
So, can folks post what their video card is, and how many dots they
get at the lower left corner with "doom -devparm"? This seems like
one of the most potentially useful video benchmarks yet. I'm
particularly interested in the data for ordinary ISA ET4000 based
cards and Cirrus Logic VLB cards, because both of those seem
relatively cheap.
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Al Walters
I found out that you can start up your system without any memory manager, like
qemm or especially emm386. These seem to add extra layers of trouble for
doom to go through. Don't forget that doom uses a dos extender ( right? )...
Al
aj...@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
> : ...However, I use the keyboard
> : to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
> : control...
>
> Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
> control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse. If you want to strafe
> just sssslightly to the right, you just move the mouse the tiniest bit.
> You wanna crawl forward, move the mouse forward. You wanna run, move it
> fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
What the hell are you talkin' about? Just press a button and it runs like
the wind. I cant say for other crap programs like blake-stone but mouse is
a cinch to use in doom.
,('ufi
Matt Ownby
: In article <shephard....@sfu.ca>,
: Gordon Shephard <shep...@fraser.sfu.ca> wrote:
: > Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
: > and only 4 Meg of Ram.
: >
: > (I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
: > the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
: > the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
: > will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
: I've got a 486DX2-66 with a Trident 1 meg card and 8M of RAM. Trident
: video cards just *suck*.
: You can adjust how quick Doom is by adjusting the display. The F5 key
: will toggle between hires and lores mode. The + and - keys by the
: backspace key up top will change the size of the window. Use these
: enough and at some point you should get good, smooth performance.
: So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
: in full-screen mode at hires? I also have problems with video
: bandwidth and The 7th Guest. Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so
: once I can afford a good card...
Get an ET4000...
Mine supports truecolor in 640x480 mode and 16-bit color in 800x600 mode;
it also CONTINUES to out perform all of the other graphics cards I have
put it up against... I ran 7th Guest and it rated both my graphics card
and my CD Rom (NEC triple speed) well above the optimum regions...
My friends' DX2/66 got below the optimum region for graphics hehehe...
Scott R Schuricht
NOTHING to do with the 1.2 patch ??????? Flame me if you want but this is
getting on my nerves, I search for 1.2 hoping for some new info about
the upcoming release and get people talking about video boards and how
jerky DOOM is on their machine. Oh well, Some people must be too busy to
edit the subject (even though they spend time reading posts :-(
M*********E*********T*********A********L*********L*********I*********C********A
* Scott Schuricht * Stop!, in the name of all that which does *
* Mechanical Engineering * not suck...I hate stuff that suck's. *
* schu...@mn.ecn.purdue.edu * - Butt-Head *
* * *
****M*********E*********G*********A*********D*********E*********T*********H****
Lewis Beard
> What long run problem? Push the middle mouse button, you'll run as long as
> you like without moving the mouse at all. This makes it easy to hit those
Middle Button? :) Time for me to get a new mouse, perhaps?
Lewis
Chris Jones
Scott R Schuricht <schu...@schenectady.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>Why don't people edit their subject lines when their post has ABSOLUTELY
>NOTHING to do with the 1.2 patch ??????? Flame me if you want but this is
>getting on my nerves, I search for 1.2 hoping for some new info about
>the upcoming release and get people talking about video boards and how
>jerky DOOM is on their machine. Oh well, Some people must be too busy to
>edit the subject (even though they spend time reading posts :-(
>
I couldn't agree more. I am soo anxious to get doom 1.2 that all the post
with the subject header doom 1.2 etc... were really starting to fry my
nerves. Not like they're not fried enough from playing DOOM!
Chris...
J.T.K. Tam
> So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
> in full-screen mode at hires?
> Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so once I can afford a good card...
I am running a 486DX33 with a S3 VLB card and it is blazingly
fast. Maybe you should consider getting one, they are not expensive but
yet provide ok performance.
-Joe
==============================================================================
Joseph Tak Kin Tam Internet: u931...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca
Social Science Level I FishNet & Fidonet address also available
McMaster University "Of all the things I lost,
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada I miss my mind the most"
==============================================================================
Alex Hornby
tip directional control along with four buttons for using strafe etc without
using the keyboard.
I'm sure someone will disagree.
Alex.
--
+----------------------------------------------+
| Alex Hornby | Email at cs...@warwick.ac.uk |
+----------------------------------------------+
Marshall Ward
: > What long run problem? Push the middle mouse button, you'll run as long as
: > you like without moving the mouse at all. This makes it easy to hit those
: Middle Button? :) Time for me to get a new mouse, perhaps?
: Lewis
Ohhhhh. He got me! That's right, they used to make two button mice, didn't
they? ;-)
After wearing a groove in my mouse pad with Wolf-3D ;-), I LOVE using the
middle mouse button to move forward in DOOM. Great feature. It just MIGHT
be worth your while to spring for a three button mouse. It's especially
good for running back up a hall when 5 secret doors open and about five
hundred imps/demons/etc all jump out at you.
Keep DOOMing.
Que Alexander
in full screen mode. 3DBench score: 45.4 fps. Quite a great card as it's
quite cheap (around US$120).
Keith Murray
: one of the most potentially useful video benchmarks yet. I'm
: particularly interested in the data for ordinary ISA ET4000 based
: cards and Cirrus Logic VLB cards, because both of those seem
: relatively cheap.
I've got a Diamond Stealth 24 VLB and I get the following results:
Full screen: 2+1 flickering
1 notch less: 1+1 flickering
And this is running 1.1 under OS/2 2.1!
Whee!
Keith
--
Keith Murray | Developing Multimedia | Aria
dod...@kira.csos.orst.edu | applications for OS/2 | P.O. Box 1889
the Dodger | 2.x MMPM/2. | Corvallis, OR 97339
Ian Mercado
>
>MY question is about the joystick. What are people's playing styles like
>with that? I can't dodge as well with that, and i waste valuable time in
>having to make a hand motion (as opposed to a finger motion) to
>do anything significant when i'm desperate. Plus, I cant achieve amazing
>accuracy with a joystick. Maybe its the way i think. I have a gravis analog
>pro. Maybe i need to play with one of those tiny finger-held type joysticks,
>like the small kraft joysticks. :) What are yall's opinions?
>
Gravis PC Gamepad will solve all your problems...except for the "amazing
accuracy" one. I usually let far away monsters run into my sights and then
waste them or I strafe over to where they are. The turning motion is
a little too jerky for fine tuning one's aim; is the mouse better?
Ian
--
Ian Mercado
i...@slammer.atl.ga.us
mathcs.emory.edu!slammer!iam
Kevin Barrett
I use mouse+keyboard. I could not imagine using the joystick...(I have
tried, but got shot to death trying to line up a shot!) I find the mouse
to be much more natural in terms of "immersing myself" in the game...you
are coming to a T in a corridor...you back up against the left wall,
peer around the right corner, and sidestep ever so slightly to the left...
Gets the bad guys every time. If there's a spot where there's no action
(everybody's dead) you hold down the right button and RUN, moving the
mouse from side to side to steer. I always have my left index finger on
the TAB key, and my left thumb moves between the left ALT key and the
space bar. I think there's no other way to play.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kevin Barrett | Martin Marietta Corp. |
| kbar...@romulus.dab.ge.com | Daytona Beach, Florida |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"What about the Rimmer Directive, which states: 'Never tangle with
anything that's got more teeth than the entire Osmond family'?" - Rimmer
cjm...@vnet.ibm.com
Actually they fixed this in DOOM as you can hold down the Right mouse
button to move forward (This is the default setting.) It works very well.
-Chris
Chris Marriott
>So, can folks post what their video card is, and how many dots they
>get at the lower left corner with "doom -devparm"? This seems like
>one of the most potentially useful video benchmarks yet. I'm
>particularly interested in the data for ordinary ISA ET4000 based
>cards and Cirrus Logic VLB cards, because both of those seem
>relatively cheap.
I normally get one flickering dot, with occasionally one steady and the
second flickering. That's with a VLB 486/66 and a VLB 2MB Diamond Viper
card (which uses a Weitek P9000 accelerator).
Chris
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chris Marriott, Warrington, UK | Author of SkyMap v2 shareware |
| Internet: ch...@chrism.demon.co.uk | astronomy program for Windows. |
| CompuServe: 100113,1140 | Mail me for details! |
| Author member of Association of Shareware Professionals (ASP) |
| Windows, C/C++ consultancy undertaken, anywhere in the world. |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew BW Colfelt
>: ...However, I use the keyboard
>: to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
>: control...
>Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
>control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse.
Yes yes yes! As a convert of the joystick
devotees, I can vouch for this opinion absolutely!
There is no substitute for the control and feel
in using a mouse, especially when whipping around
corners to surprise waiting baddies- the graphics
engine expects this and gives a feel for the
momentum involved here.
--
Andrew
Col...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU
--
Mark L McGregor
version ) on a 386-40 w/8megs and and ATI wonder card (w/1MB) at one
notch below full screen (with high res on) I get at minimum 3 dots
but usually 4+ rarely do I get any slow down (I have played it on
a 486/33 and found no speed dif.) Once thing that does really
make a big difference is the hard drive access times.. I couldn't
play the thing when I loaded it onto my old drive C: but by putting
in my faster drive D: the game is 3x as fast...
Figure that one out....?
Mark..
Thomas Lundquist
>: one of the most potentially useful video benchmarks yet. I'm
>: particularly interested in the data for ordinary ISA ET4000 based
>: cards and Cirrus Logic VLB cards, because both of those seem
>: relatively cheap.
>
>I've got a Diamond Stealth 24 VLB and I get the following results:
>
> Full screen: 2+1 flickering
> 1 notch less: 1+1 flickering
Got 2 to 3 (sometimes the fourth flickering, wery various, but most of the
time the third flickering.) on my ET4000 isa board. 486dx40
>
>And this is running 1.1 under OS/2 2.1!
Can't remember what I got from OS/2, but it was faster than your measure.
--
Thomas Lundquist. eMail : Thom...@dhhalden.no
Oestfold regional college, Norway. Baldrick @Final Realms mud
Departement of computer science. @hp825.bih.no port 2001
..PGP key available..
..Peace..
John Henders
>Any Cirrus-Logic VLB card (one can be had for about $110 I think or less),
>is good. I get a Bench-3D score of around 40 or so on a 486/50DX.
>Make sure you get the card with 1 meg of memory (at least) and it can
>support 16.8 million colors (whether you will ever use it debatable...)
Just one warning on cheap Cirrus cards, they have problems with
1024x768x256 at 72hz. I know this isn't really a gaming issue, but if you
also need high rez performance, it could make a difference.
--
John Henders - Wimsey Information Services
GAT/MU/AE d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m---
e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+ g+ w+++ y*
John Doggett
: >So, can folks post what their video card is, and how many dots they
: >get at the lower left corner with "doom -devparm"? This seems like
: >one of the most potentially useful video benchmarks yet. I'm
: >particularly interested in the data for ordinary ISA ET4000 based
: >cards and Cirrus Logic VLB cards, because both of those seem
: >relatively cheap.
: I normally get one flickering dot, with occasionally one steady and the
: second flickering. That's with a VLB 486/66 and a VLB 2MB Diamond Viper
: card (which uses a Weitek P9000 accelerator).
Screw you. ;-)
PERKINS I CE4
: Screw you. ;-)
I have one flikering dot on level 3 6 and sometimes one steady and the
second flickering. I only have a 486 dx2/66 with 20 megs RAM, VLB
CIRRUS login 2 meg video card, oh, it's also running under OS/2 ;)
Ian
Doug DeJulio
John Henders <jhen...@jonh.wimsey.com> wrote:
>sger...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Steven Gershenfeld) writes:
>>Any Cirrus-Logic VLB card (one can be had for about $110 I think or less),
>>is good. I get a Bench-3D score of around 40 or so on a 486/50DX.
>>Make sure you get the card with 1 meg of memory (at least) and it can
>>support 16.8 million colors (whether you will ever use it debatable...)
>
> Just one warning on cheap Cirrus cards, they have problems with
>1024x768x256 at 72hz. I know this isn't really a gaming issue, but if you
>also need high rez performance, it could make a difference.
What do you mean by "have problems with"? Does it fry the monitor?
Is it just not supported? The only time I use 1024x768x256 mode is
when I run X11 under Linux, and I only do that for very short periods
of time (my monitor overheats at room temperature if left at that
resolution for too long).
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Powdered Toast Man
What I'm doing is, every so often, using Gopher to access the newsgroup,
from the Board of Governors Universities in Illinois or other gateway where
they arrange the articles alphabetically. Usually the ones with subject
headers beginning with an asteris (8) or, even better, several, are first.
Those are the ones that always contain BIG news like new releases.
I also have a suggestion for id Software: when posting the release, use
the version number "1.20", that way we can distinguish it from the drivel.
Robert A. Zawarski
cirrus card with X at 72 for quits some time and have no probs.
The high-res works just fine. Please quantify that statement.
The Fantom Ferret
|So, can folks post what their video card is, and how many dots they
|get at the lower left corner with "doom -devparm"?
486DX33 + 8MB + ISA ET4000 : Most of the time its 2 + 1 flickering ,
sometimes 3 + 1 flickering (at full screen and hires).
--
Graeme Wightman (GW211) - System Support Email: fer...@fuzzy.seqeb.gov.au
South East Queensland Electricity Board Fax: +61 7 2217556
GPO Box 1461, Brisbane 4001 AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 7 2234150
<<< GOD is REAL .... unless declared INTEGER >>>
Matt Ownby
: In article <2jdisu$j...@news1.digex.net>, 1 <pin...@access1.digex.net> wrote:
: >: ...However, I use the keyboard
: >: to move. I think the mouse is for cursor control, NOT fine character
: >: control...
: >Off the subject, of course, but how can you say that? There is no finer
: >control for DOOM/Wolf/Blake/etc. than the mouse. If you want to strafe
: >just sssslightly to the right, you just move the mouse the tiniest bit.
: >You wanna crawl forward, move the mouse forward. You wanna run, move it
: >fast. The only problem with mouse control is the 'long run' problem,
: >having to pick it up over and over in order to run a long distance in one
: >direction. But the gains in normal control precision outweigh this minor
: >annoyance.
: Just buy a track ball and get it over with! The ONLY real way to play games
: like DOOM and X-wing are with a track ball. You get the precision control of
: a mouse without the running all over the desk and the lift and move problem.
: I tell ya, before I got a track ball, I could never loop my X-wing fast enough
: to stay on some of those fighters whizzing by. The mouse was a pain in the
: butt, and joystick control was almost hopeless. But with a track ball, it's
: just a quick spin of the ball and you're turned around and where you want to
: be! (Note, sometimes it's almost TOO good! I've had it flip around so fast
: that I assume the program gets lost, or else is programmed to behave that way,
: but control of the X-wing is lost for a bit and it kind of does a tail-spin!
: It's lotsa fun though watching the stars whiz by out of control!) At any rate,
: DOOM works GREAT with a track ball. It's a breeze moving around, and moving
: in map mode is even easier!
I have a trackball and I played Xwing on it for a while.. but by rolling
it around vigorously I eventually broke it... then I got a Gravis Gamepad
and I MUST prefer the gamepad in xwing.. on the trackball I would want to
go straight up or down and would always veer off to the side.. the gamepad
is pretty much the same speed except a lot easier to control...
As for DOOM: I cannot imagine anyone playing it on anything except a
keyboard hehehe.. a mouse? That is the recommendation, but wouldn't you
be moving it around a LOT? I hate moving the mouse.. that's why I have a
trackball <grin>... use the keyboard! If I ever played netdoom against
someone using anything but the keyboard, I would consider myself to have a
decisive advantage over them...
BTW, my gravis works fine with v1.1 I just think it's too hard to
control... never really tried the trackball yet *avoid tomatoes* but I
boldly still support the keyboard hehehehe
John Henders
>What kind of statement was that? I have been running my 'cheap'
>Cirrus card with X at 72 for quits some time and have no probs.
>The high-res works just fine. Please quantify that statement.
Well, there was a 2 week thread in one of the linux groups about
this, and I've seen 3 cards from 2 different manufacturers with the same
problem. It shows up as noise onscreen when doing scrolling or other
operations which move a lot of data over the bus to the card. That's with
the windows driver using the clmode program to set the frequency for
1024x768 to 72hz, and under XFree86 with the standard Vesa 72hz settings. If
your card doesn't do this, count yourself lucky, as I saw enough people
posting about it to make me think it's not uncommon. Most had 5426 based
cards.
S Patrick Gallaty
>
>Hi. I put the shareware version of DOOM in our company's shared file system
>a week ago and now everyone in my group is addicted. However, I could not
>get NetDoom to work and my life is like hell. I have 30 mails every day
>asking for NetDoom. Could some one help me please?
>
>Our system is running PATHWORK connecting a bunch of DEC stations and PCs.
>We use
>
> DEPCA DE-100 Ethernet Card
> DEPCA Turbo 203/204/205 Ethernet Card.
>
>I followed the instructions in FAQ. But "IPXODI.COM" always says I need
>to install the ethernet card driver first, which I did by running the
>PATHWORK driver.
>
>What was the problem? Is there any other network card ODI driver that
>supports these types of cards?
>
>Thanks a lot.
>
>Gary
>
>
Do not! I repeat do not run version 1.1 of netdoom on a network with vaxes.
Wait a couple of weeks and when 1.2 comes out I'll tell you how to do it.
The tech reason I posted a while earlier.
--
S Patrick Gallaty (ch...@netcom.com) \ /\ /
President, Bavaria Illuminati Motorcycle Cabal - / \ -
& Conspiracy International, SF Chapter. - / () \ -
"Semper Fun" /______\
Michael Kelsey - EECS (Cpts499)
I guess I too should consider myself lucky...then again, I have a Cirrus
Logic CL-GD5424 and not the 5426. As far as on-screen garbage -- none.
Perhaps this also applies to the above?
-Michael Kelsey
-mke...@eecs.wsu.edu
John Gayman
> In article <CL0sw...@uceng.uc.edu>,
> Normen Kurt Strobel <nstr...@uceng.uc.edu> wrote:
> Now that I know what the dots mean when you start up with "doom
> -devparm", I've got some data. With the image taking up almost the
> whole screen in hires mode, I get three or four dots, with the fifth
> So, can folks post what their video card is, and how many dots they
I'm running a 66Mhz 486DX2 with 8MB of RAM and an ATI Graphics
Ultra Pro VLB adapter. With a full-screen window I get one solid
and one flickering dot. As for smoothness, to me both the shareware
version and the registered version are perfectly smooth. I detect
virtually no flickering or hesitation even when running at full
speed.
-- John
--
John Gayman, WA3WBU
UUCP: rutgers!psuvax1!vogon1!wa3wbu!john
Frank Provo
>I have one flikering dot on level 3 6 and sometimes one steady and the
>second flickering. I only have a 486 dx2/66 with 20 megs RAM, VLB
>CIRRUS login 2 meg video card, oh, it's also running under OS/2 ;)
Wow, that's a wimpy machine. Only a DX2/66 with 20 Megs and a 2 meg vid
card, what a total dinosaur ;-)
And I thought I had it rough with my 486/33 and only 4 megs :)
-Frank
===============================================================================
= | "I never drive faster than I can see, and
= Frank Provo | besides that; It's all in the reflexes."
= mos...@u.washington.edu |
= | - Jack Burton
= |
===============================================================================
--
===============================================================================
= | "I never drive faster than I can see, and
= Frank Provo | besides that; It's all in the reflexes."
= mos...@u.washington.edu |
Scott Coleman
>As for DOOM: I cannot imagine anyone playing it on anything except a
>keyboard hehehe.. a mouse? That is the recommendation, but wouldn't you
>be moving it around a LOT? I hate moving the mouse.. that's why I have a
>trackball <grin>... use the keyboard! If I ever played netdoom against
>someone using anything but the keyboard, I would consider myself to have a
>decisive advantage over them...
Heh heh heh... I just wish you were close enough to NetDOOM with.
I'd just LOVE to show you firsthand how ineffective a mouse-using DOOM player
can be... ;-) ;-)
--
Scott Coleman tm...@uiuc.edu
President ASRE (American Society of Reverse Engineers)
Ed Green Fan Club #005
Greg Bennett
In article <1994Feb11.1...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>, u931...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (J.T.K. Tam) writes:
> In article <CKyvDJ...@cs.cmu.edu> dd...@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:
>
> > So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
> > in full-screen mode at hires?
> > Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so once I can afford a good card...
>
>
> I am running a 486DX33 with a S3 VLB card and it is blazingly
^^^^^^^^^^
> fast. Maybe you should consider getting one, they are not expensive but
^^^^
> yet provide ok performance>
> -Joe
>
I hate to tell you this, but you performance cannot be attributed to your S3
card. An S3 card ONLY gives acceleration when drivers are loaded to take
advantage of it's speed. In reality, an S3 card can run slower than a generic
VGA card when running under DOS. Fortunately, A VLB card gives enough through
put that the card is at least as fast as a generic VGA card.
DOOM will not run faster under an S3 card since it doesn't use S3 specific
drivers, hence it will not be 'blazingly fast' due to your card. I am
positive that your speed under DOOM is due to your DX2/66.
BTW, I have an S3 Local Bus card also, and I AM impressed with it's speed
under Windows and OS/2 (with the appropriate drivers)
--
Greg Bennett A.K.A. 'The Friendly User' (.).) { Belgium! *}
gben...@friendly.sim.es.com ^ '
Evans & Sutherland Simulation Division \___/
* See Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (US version)
John Doggett
: In article <1994Feb11.1...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>, u931...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (J.T.K. Tam) writes:
: >
: > I am running a 486DX33 with a S3 VLB card and it is blazingly
~~~~~~~
: ^^^^^^^^^^
: > fast. Maybe you should consider getting one, they are not expensive but
: ^^^^
: DOOM will not run faster under an S3 card since it doesn't use S3 specific
: drivers, hence it will not be 'blazingly fast' due to your card. I am
: positive that your speed under DOOM is due to your DX2/66.
He said he owns a DX33, which is, I'm sure, why he thought it was
blazingly fast because of the card.
Alexander R Moon
I hate to tell you this, but even if you're running DOOM under OS/2 or Windows
(which is an impossibility until 1.2 [I mean Windows, not OS/2]), the software
is doing direct video card access which will NOT go through any drivers you
have loaded! You might realize this when you note that those drivers are
specific to a given resolution which significantly higher than the 320x200 of
DOOM. If you were running it in a window under OS/2 or Windoze (Which I don't
think is possible) then you would be going through the drivers and you would
see performance drop off SIGNIFICANTLY. DOOM is highly optimized at what it
does. Those S3 drivers are somewhat optimized at what they do. What those
drivers do (for the most part) is know how to draw lines, rectangles, and circles
and move blocks of graphics. DOOM does none of this. It places pixels. A
process which is more than likely SLOWED DOWN by high level drivers. That's
why in the X port, they are using a library which still gives them low-level
access to the video card instead of using the X graphics drivers as their
interface. The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at 32-bits
at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
--<Alex>--
mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu
T. Murphy
>On a related query:
>
> Does anyone play DOOM on a 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video Card
> and only 4 Meg of Ram.
>
> (I'm just wondering if I should Twiddle some Cmos settings, or whether
> the machine is just underpowered for Doom. Currently it's slow to
> the point of being unplayable. Resolution is so low, that some times
> you are unable to shoot monsters because a single movement of the mouse
> will move you from too far left to too far right. Sigh.)
I play DOOM on a Quadtel 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video card with
8 megs of RAM, and it cruises! Check your CMOS.. change the ATCLK to
ATCLK/4. That's the setting for a 486/33 I believe. (Any CMOS gurus..
correct me if I'm wrong.)
-Tom
--
PGP Public key available via FINGER
( tmu...@sun490.fdu.edu )
O.D. Palmer
|> The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
|> SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at |>32-bits
|> at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
|> refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
The performance advantages currently attributed to VLB are largely
theoretical. All of the cheap VLB video cards use *exactly* the same
components (except for the bus interface logic) that the ISA versions
of the same cards use. So even though they may be able to access
a 32 bit bus rather than a 16 bit bus, they cannot process the data
any faster than an ISA card. The CPU just ends up spending *more* time
waiting for the VLB cards to use the data they are provided. There *are*
VLB cards that can take advantage of 32 bit transfers at 33Mhz, but
such cards start at about $500 (and up) and are used primarily in high-end
CAD systems. Few mortals can afford or justify these things for home use.
I play DOOM on a 486DX-50 ISA system with an Orchid Farenheit 1280 card,
and it screams, even in full screen, hi res mode. This is because the
Orchid uses VRAM rather than DRAM. VRAM is dual port memory; i.e. it
can be read and written simultaneously. VRAM is also more expensive than
DRAM, and that is why some cheap VLB cards (using DRAM) perform poorly.
If you want good performance with bit-mapped applications such as DOOM,
be sure the card you are buying uses fast VRAM. And Alex is right about
S3. Applications must be written to use the S3 chip, and DOOM is not.
Beware of video card benchmark claims, as well. Some (i.e. most)
manufacturers have been caught putting hooks in their video bios that
recognize the major benchmark algorithms and return false results.
The advantages of VLB are overrated for disk i/o as well. No
unbuffered hard disk on the market can physically provide data fast
enough to use even a fraction of the bandwidth available on an ISA
machine, much less on a VLB system. VLB disk controllers have absolutely
no value unless they have sizeable (1M or larger) caches on them.
So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
hype.
O.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
| CYA: Blessed be thine employer. Let not thine foolishness harm them. |
|-----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
| Send Flames or Email to |"Skating away on the thin ice of a new day."|
| sla...@delphi.com | Ian Anderson |
|_____________________________|____________________________________________|
Michael Kelsey - EECS (Cpts499)
Honestly, what do those dots signify. I've been running netDOOM (only the
shareware version will fit on the labs PC's) for many weeks now on ultraviolence
and I have never seen more than three dots total!
Machines: 486DX-33 ISA's w/WD8003E interfaces and Tseng Labs ET4000 video cards.
Bear in mind that these PC's get DOG slow around level 6+.
Are we all very sure that these dots actually signify the machine load? Please
comment or send E-mail.
-Michael
-mke...@eecs.wsu.edu
Jay Cotton
>(Alexander R Moon) writes:
>|> The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
>|> SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at
>|>32-bits
>|> at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
>|> refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
>The performance advantages currently attributed to VLB are largely
>theoretical. All of the cheap VLB video cards use *exactly* the same
>components (except for the bus interface logic) that the ISA versions
>of the same cards use.
blah, blah, blah...
>So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
>caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
>hype.
IMNSHO: bullsh:t...
Yes, an expensive ISA card can perform as well as a cheap VLB card. But I'd
rather a VLB card that costs $80.00 than an ISA card that costs $500. Face
it; a cheap ISA card is slow...real slow. A cheap VLB card is as quick as
most expensive ISA cards.
We've got lots of ISA and VLB cards here. I've written my own DOS (this
means DOOM) benchmarks. A cheap VLB card runs about 2 to 6 times faster
than a cheap ISA card. A good VLB card can run 4-20 times as fast as a
cheap ISA. VLB is more bang for your buck than ISA. A VLB motherboard only
costs $50 to $100 more than an ISA (and it's getting cheaper). The cheap
VLB cards cost less than $80. Total price: $130. Can you buy an ISA card
that will out-perform the VLB for this much. NO.
And if price isn't enough to convince you, at least with a VLB computer you
can upgrade to the faster 32bit, VRAM, VLB video cards when you can afford
it and blow away any ISA video card.
So...all you DOOMers out there...VLB does work...and it's cheap!
.--------.-------.-. .--. .------------------------------------.
| | | | | | | Jay Cotton, Network Administrator |
| | | | | | | UGA-College of Veterinary Medicine |
`--. .--' .--. | `--' | `------------------------------------'
| | | | | | | .------------------------------------.
.--. | | | `--' | | | Internet : j...@calc.vet.uga.edu |
| | | | | |-. .--' | Bitnet : jcotton@uga |
| `-' | | | | | | Compuserve : 70761,3223 |
| | | .--. | | | | Phone : (706)542-5765 |
| | | | | | | | | FAX : (706)542-3474 |
`-------' `--' `--' `--' `------------------------------------'
Josh Lehrer
I have a really complicated cmos set up
that I don't understand... if someone who
know a little more would be willing,
I could just tell you what all of my options are,
and if you could tell me what to set, etc...
That would be great... Think of it as helping
yet another doom player play doom even
faster...
Josh
:w
--
------------------------------ -------------------------------------
Joshua Scott Lehrer \ / E-Mail: Joshua...@brown.edu
Department of Computer Science | Snail Mail: Box 1790 Brown University
Brown University | Providence, RI 02912-1790
Joe Siegler
Here is a listing of all the Apogee games to date. The first
section is the games that are in wide distribution. This list
is current as of Monday, February 14th, 1994.
The number of episodes listed is the amount in the entire game
series, not what's available for download. Remember, only the
FIRST episode of each of these series is legal material for
uploading and downloading.
SECTION I - Widely Available Games
Game Title | Vers | BBS File | Gr
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*% Blake Stone:Aliens of Gold (6 episodes) | 2.0 | #1BS20.ZIP | VGA
% Duke Nukem II (4 episodes) | 1.0 | #4DUKE.ZIP | VGA
% Halloween Harry (4 episodes) | 1.2 | #1HH12.ZIP | VGA
% Wolfenstein 3D (6 episodes) | 1.4 | #1WOLF14.ZIP | VGA
Bio Menace (3 episodes) | 1.1 | #1BIO11.ZIP | EGA
% Monster Bash (3 episodes) | 2.1 | #1BASH21.ZIP | EGA
Bash Lite (Special Shareware Version) | 2.1 | #1MBLITE.ZIP | EGA
Commander Keen: Vorticons (3 episodes) | 1.31 | #1KEEN.ZIP | EGA
Commander Keen: Goodbye Galaxy (2 eps) | 1.4 | #4KEEN.ZIP | EGA
Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure (3 episodes) | 1.4 | #1COSMO.ZIP | EGA
Duke Nukem (3 episodes) | 2.0 | #1DUKE.ZIP | EGA
Major Stryker (3 episodes) | 1.4 | #1MAJR14.ZIP | EGA
Crystal Caves (3 episodes) | 1.0 | #1CRYSTL.ZIP | EGA
Secret Agent (3 episodes) | 1.0 | #1AGENT.ZIP | EGA
Math Rescue (3 episodes) | 2.0 | #1MATH.ZIP | EGA
Word Rescue (3 episodes) | 2.0 | #1RESCUE.ZIP | EGA
Dark Ages (3 episodes) | 1.0 | #1DARK.ZIP | EGA
Paganitzu (3 episodes) | 1.02 | #1PAGA.ZIP | CEGA
Pharaoh's Tomb (4 episodes) | 3.0 | #1TOMB.ZIP | CGA
Arctic Adventure (4 episodes) | 2.0 | #1ARCTIC.ZIP | CGA
Monuments of Mars (4 episodes) | 1.0 | #1MARS.ZIP | CGA
The Kroz Series (7 episodes) | 1.0 | #1KROZ.ZIP | CGA
* - New addition(s) since the last posting of the list.
% - Due to the size of this game, there are also smaller ZIP files
available that duplicate the large .ZIP file.
Contact Joe Siegler for the exact filenames.
Section II - Apogee Slide Show Previews/Other Files
---------------------------------------------------
* Blake Stone Slide Show #3 #1BSPIX3.ZIP VGA
* Raptor Slide Show #1RAPPIX.ZIP VGA
Duke Nukem II Slide Show #4DN-PIX.ZIP VGA
Halloween Harry Slide Show #2 #1HHPIX2.ZIP VGA
Bio Menace Slide Show #1BM-PIX.ZIP EGA
Monster Bash Slide Show #1MB-PIX.ZIP EGA
* Blake Stone v2.0 Patch - Episodes 1-3 BSPATCH3.ZIP N/A
* Blake Stone v2.0 Patch - Episodes 1-6 BSPATCH6.ZIP N/A
Halloween Harry GUS Patch #1HH_GUS.ZIP N/A
Apogee On-Disk Catalog File - Dec 93 APOG1293.ZIP N/A
Section III - Miscelleanous Apogee Products
-------------------------------------------
Apogee Logo T-Shirt Wolfenstein 3-D T-Shirt
Monster Bash T-Shirt Wolfenstein 3-D Hint Book
Section IV - Coming Products (All games are VGA)
------------------------------------------------
Raptor FebMar/94 - Best PC Shooter anywhere - Bar NONE!
Violent Vengeance AprJun/94 - Apogee's killer SF2 style game!
Mystic Towers AprJun/94 - Isometric adventure game!
Hocus Pocus AprJun/94 - Save a magic kingdom
Nuclear Nightmare ** Summer/94 - Windows platform game
Realms of Chaos Fall/94 - Fantasy platform adventure
Shadow Warrior Xmas/94 - 3D Ninja Game
Duke Nukem 3D Xmas/94 - Duke's back in 3D!
** - Has no name, or the name will change before release.
Note that all dates are ESTIMATES, and may change.
Section V - Discontinued Games
------------------------------
All these games have been permanently discontinued.
These are no longer available from Apogee. If you have
them on your BBS, you should remove them, since Apogee no
longer ships the registered versions, nor provides support
on them. We do, however, retain the copyright on all of
these games.
The Thor Trilogy, SuperNova, Beyond the Titantic, Word Whiz,
Trivia Whiz, Star Trek Trivia, Star Trek:TNG Trivia, and
Jumpman Lives!.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Siegler - Apogee Software | _|\_ |
| | \ / \ Pisces Swimeatus |
| joe.s...@swcbbs.com | |>< |> OO The Dopefish |
| apo...@delphi.com | / \___/UU |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
anon Apogee ftp site at ftp.uml.edu in msdos/Games/Apogee
Next Game Due Out --> Raptor (Feb 1994)
* 1st 1.15b #1051bt * Blake Stone 3D: Spelling doom for all other 3D games!
Joe Siegler
Apogee has today released a patch file for Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold!
Version 2.0 has been released, and as a convienence to our customers, we've
also released a patch file for the registered episodes. If you've already
purchased and received your v1.0 diskettes, you don't need to get the update
from Apogee, you can download it!
There are two seperate patches. One is for customers who only have Episodes
1-3, and the other is for customers who only have Episodes 1-6. You'll need to
make sure that you download the appropriate patch file.
If you have v1.0 Episodes 1-3, then you'll need the file BSPATCH3.ZIP.
If you have v1.0 Episodes 1-6, then you'll need the file BSPATCH6.ZIP.
If you only have the shareware episode, there is no patch available.
These patches will do nothing if you do not have a registered copy of Blake
Stone, either Episodes 1-3, or Episodes 1-6. If you only have Episodes
1-3, make sure to get the 1-3 patch, it is not possible to get Episodes 4-6
through this patch.
If you download the patch from a BBS, there will be one step you'll need to
take in order to get the patch installed correctly. Inside the zip file you'll
download will be three files.
1) INSTALL.EXE
2) A data file (name will be different depending on which patch you have)
3) FILE_ID.DIZ
You need to delete the FILE_ID.DIZ file before you install the patch, or the
patch will not work correctly!
Here are some of the new features in v2.0 of Blake Stone:
1) Rotating Automapper - The map will always face in the direction
that you do.
2) Larger Viewfield - The game play portion of the screen has been
made slightly larger for better gameplay!
3) Light Sourcing - Also called light diminishing, which is an
effect where things further away from you are
darker, creating a better 3D effect!
There have also been several bug fixes, the most notorious one being the
$90-02 error. That's been removed completely from the new version!
If you've never played Blake Stone, or already know it well, why not
rediscover this great game from Apogee Software and Jam Productions
today?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Siegler - Apogee Software | _|\_ |
| | \ / \ Pisces Swimeatus |
| joe.s...@swcbbs.com | |>< |> OO The Dopefish |
| apo...@delphi.com | / \___/UU |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
anon Apogee ftp site at ftp.uml.edu in msdos/Games/Apogee
Next Game Due Out --> Raptor (Feb 1994)
* 1st 1.15b #1051bt * Praise the Lord, for He is worthy to be praised!
Todd Walk
>The advantages of VLB are overrated for disk i/o as well. No
>unbuffered hard disk on the market can physically provide data fast
>enough to use even a fraction of the bandwidth available on an ISA
>machine, much less on a VLB system. VLB disk controllers have absolutely
>no value unless they have sizeable (1M or larger) caches on them.
True about the video cards, but not true about hard disks.
My new gig HD can burst at 10MB/sec., and the newest baracuda
can get 14 MB/sec SUSTAINED (fast, wide, diff. SCSI required).
--
Todd Walk
wa...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
Todd Walk
>>So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
>>caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
>>hype.
>IMNSHO: bullsh:t...
>Yes, an expensive ISA card can perform as well as a cheap VLB card. But I'd
>rather a VLB card that costs $80.00 than an ISA card that costs $500. Face
>it; a cheap ISA card is slow...real slow. A cheap VLB card is as quick as
>most expensive ISA cards.
>We've got lots of ISA and VLB cards here. I've written my own DOS (this
>means DOOM) benchmarks. A cheap VLB card runs about 2 to 6 times faster
>than a cheap ISA card. A good VLB card can run 4-20 times as fast as a
>cheap ISA. VLB is more bang for your buck than ISA. A VLB motherboard only
>costs $50 to $100 more than an ISA (and it's getting cheaper). The cheap
>VLB cards cost less than $80. Total price: $130. Can you buy an ISA card
>that will out-perform the VLB for this much. NO.
>And if price isn't enough to convince you, at least with a VLB computer you
>can upgrade to the faster 32bit, VRAM, VLB video cards when you can afford
>it and blow away any ISA video card.
>So...all you DOOMers out there...VLB does work...and it's cheap!
My benchmarking shows at most about a 2x speed increase for DRAM
VLB cards over the corresponding ISA counterparts. (I've seen
around a 4x max. over ISA for VRAM cards.) Cheaper chipsets
usually get around 25% to 75% better performance. The reason
for it being slower than the 2nd poster thinks is that the
DRAM used in the cheaper cards can't keep up with how fast
the bus can supply data.
--
Todd Walk
wa...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
PERKINS I CE4
: j...@calc.vet.uga.edu (Jay Cotton) writes:
: >>So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
: >>caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
: >>hype.
: >IMNSHO: bullsh:t...
I agree,
: >Yes, an expensive ISA card can perform as well as a cheap VLB card. But I'd
: >rather a VLB card that costs $80.00 than an ISA card that costs $500. Face
: >it; a cheap ISA card is slow...real slow. A cheap VLB card is as quick as
: >most expensive ISA cards.
: >We've got lots of ISA and VLB cards here. I've written my own DOS (this
: >means DOOM) benchmarks. A cheap VLB card runs about 2 to 6 times faster
: >than a cheap ISA card. A good VLB card can run 4-20 times as fast as a
: >cheap ISA. VLB is more bang for your buck than ISA. A VLB motherboard only
: >costs $50 to $100 more than an ISA (and it's getting cheaper). The cheap
: >VLB cards cost less than $80. Total price: $130. Can you buy an ISA card
: >that will out-perform the VLB for this much. NO.
: >So...all you DOOMers out there...VLB does work...and it's cheap!
I agree
: My benchmarking shows at most about a 2x speed increase for DRAM
: VLB cards over the corresponding ISA counterparts. (I've seen
: around a 4x max. over ISA for VRAM cards.) Cheaper chipsets
: usually get around 25% to 75% better performance. The reason
: for it being slower than the 2nd poster thinks is that the
: DRAM used in the cheaper cards can't keep up with how fast
: the bus can supply data.
I agree, I had a cheap card and then I got a 2 meg Cirrus Logic card.
Performance for doom went from five to six dots on full screen minus
two, to 2 dots on full screen minus one. I then got the Drivers for
my VLB harddrive controller, and it went to one flickering dot on
completely full screen (no status bar at bottom). That was on level
3 mision 6. I think there is a lot to say about using a VLB card
and controller. Even the not so expensive Cirrus Logic (120 cdn).
Ian Perkins
Team OS/2
Scott C. Dang
> second flickering. I only have a 486 dx2/66 with 20 megs RAM, VLB
> CIRRUS login 2 meg video card, oh, it's also running under OS/2 ;)
>
> Ian
>
I have one flickering dot on level 3 6 and sometimes one steady and the
second flickering. I only have a 486 dx/66 with 8 megs RAM, VLB
CIRRUS logic 1 meg video card, oh, it's also running under OS/2 ;)
--
.-------------------------------------------------.
[ A Message from Scott C. Dang <scd...@ctp.org> |
`-------------------------------------------------'
Ian Mercado
>
>The advantages of VLB are overrated for disk i/o as well. No
>unbuffered hard disk on the market can physically provide data fast
>enough to use even a fraction of the bandwidth available on an ISA
>machine, much less on a VLB system. VLB disk controllers have absolutely
>no value unless they have sizeable (1M or larger) caches on them.
>
That's interesting. When I replaced my el-cheapo IDE controller with my
el-cheapo VLB IDE controller my data transfer rates on the hard drive went
from 1.3 MB/sec to 1.8 MB/sec according to Norton's sysinfo. I also can
tell a DEFINITE increase in speed when copying large files to and fro.
It must be doing SOMETHING better. (And it has NO cache)
Ian
--
Ian Mercado
i...@slammer.atl.ga.us
mathcs.emory.edu!slammer!iam
Ian Mercado
>Talking about doom and cmos...
>I have a really complicated cmos set up
>that I don't understand... if someone who
>know a little more would be willing,
>I could just tell you what all of my options are,
>and if you could tell me what to set, etc...
>That would be great... Think of it as helping
>yet another doom player play doom even
>faster...
>
The ONLY thing that significantly sped up my 486/33 was changing the bus clock
speed from 7.?? MHz to 1/2 clock speed. That made full-screen mode in
high-res good and playable...without, it was a little too jerky. I have an
ISA ET4000 based video board for those who are interested.
William Birkmaier
The dots are supposed to represent the frame rate. The less dots the
faster the frame rate. One is suppoesd to be about 37 2 is 25 3 is 17.
I dont remeber exactly.
Will
White Flame
Once in a while, you just have to wonder why the masses are crying out. Like with
this DOOM v1.2 thing. Let's look at the facts:
In article 5...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, ap...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hank Leukart) writes:
> Version 1.2 of DOOM will be released on February 11th, 1994.
You know the answer to this!
> Everyone that registered DOOM directly from id Software will receive,
>in the mail, a patch for 1.2 from id as a way of saying *THANKS* and *SORRY*
>for the late shipments!
See, ID is just trying to suck up to the customers!
Just read between the lines and you'll see what schlop this is:
>Version 1.2 will have:
>
> o Cereal-link and moody support for two player games
> o Directed network pickets -- no more broadcast strikes
Well, one good thing. That should eliminate some slowdown.
> o FULL PAS-16 support
wow. The PET audio system. There's something that I can take advantage of.
> o A new "NIGHTMARE difficulty" in which: (TOO EASY?! hahaha...)
> + All missile weapons fire twice as fast
> + Pink demons move twice as fast as your missile weapons
> + Both types of former humans shoot 30 times as often
> + Monsters randomly teleport in to the level, infinitely,
> making over 100% ratios possible and E1M8 impossible
> because Barons keep teleporting in!
> o DOOMDATA directory requirement has been expanded
4 megs now, plus all of your saved games.
> o Mouse and joystick control in the menus, but not in the game
> o Better joystick calibration and fixed joystick control
I don't want a joystick that I can't move! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> o Perfect gameplay under Windows
Nothing good will ever run under Windoze, so either this is a cruel joke,
or v1.2 is no good! Point made.
> * Cyberman(tm) support
Sorry, but I don't have cybernetic implants, yet...
> * Saved game bug corrected
> * Reoccuring Z_Malloc bug corrected
aka the bugs work better now...
> * v1.2 will now return to lightning speed (no more v1.1 mollasses)
thus frying your processor. Coincidentally, ID is now selling a $500 processor
fan. Hmmmm.....
> * Ten micros allowing you to easily heat sausages during multiplay
???
Thus you can see that this v1.2 is HIGHLY overrated and definately should NOT be
considered to install. Everybody go and play SPISPOPD!
White Flame
For the humor-impaired, this entire message has been a JOKE!
O.D. Palmer
|> That's interesting. When I replaced my el-cheapo IDE controller with my
|> el-cheapo VLB IDE controller my data transfer rates on the hard drive went
|> from 1.3 MB/sec to 1.8 MB/sec according to Norton's sysinfo. I also can
|> tell a DEFINITE increase in speed when copying large files to and fro.
|>
|> It must be doing SOMETHING better. (And it has NO cache)
More and more IDE drives have a built-in cache these days (cache in the
drive electronics, not on the controller). Mine has 32K
and I have heard of newer ones with 64K or even 128K, and that definitely
would enhance throughput.
The basis for my claim was a calculation involving the disk rotation rate,
the number of sectors in a track and the number of bytes in a sector. For
a read that does not require stepping the head on a drive with 1:1
interleave, the number of bytes per second that can be read from the
drive *sustained* is quite a bit less than the ISA bandwidth. This
calculation also assumes 100% cache miss in the case of caching drives.
Terry Haynes [CONTRACTOR]
}>In article <CL87H...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Alexander R Moon) writes:
}>|> The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
}>|> SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at |>32-bits
}>|> at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
}>|> refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
}>
}>
}>The advantages of VLB are overrated for disk i/o as well. No
}>unbuffered hard disk on the market can physically provide data fast
}>enough to use even a fraction of the bandwidth available on an ISA
}>machine, much less on a VLB system. VLB disk controllers have absolutely
}>no value unless they have sizeable (1M or larger) caches on them.
}>
}>So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
}>caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
}>hype.
I hate to diskaggree with you but as far as perfomance results go :
My VLB cards run much faster than my nonVLB setup. Not just in windoze
but accrossed the board. I have not run the 3dbench marks for my video
card but I have noticed quite a pickup in image transfers.
As far as disk go ... My understanding runs something like this:
SCSI ( and newer IDE) disk can run at transfer rate upto 10MB a second,
The pc bus (ISA) run at between 4-8 MBs. Since that transfer rate is shared
between all your cards you can see a pretty small chunk goes to your cards.
On local bus your data transfers are larger & faster. If you cards don't
support the larger use of the bus atleast when they request data they get it.
Any ways my video in windoze (winsock) doubled its performance specs (compare S3 - S3).
My disk drive perfomance using a forex scsi vlb almost tripled without a disk cache.
1.5 MB thruput to 3.9 MB with a cache my performance is even higher.
I think the numbers and spec will speak for themselves, look them up in
a MAG reviewing PC bench marks and system tests.
-Sandman
Psst the forex card had one of the fastest specs on the market when I bought it,
and it doesn't even have a cache ... go figure ;^)
Terry Haynes [CONTRACTOR]
}>j...@calc.vet.uga.edu (Jay Cotton) writes:
}>>>So unless you have the $$$ for a high-end VLB video card and for a
}>>>caching disk controller with mucho RAM, consider VLB mostly marketing
}>>>hype.
}>
}>>IMNSHO: bullsh:t...
}>
}>>And if price isn't enough to convince you, at least with a VLB computer you
}>>can upgrade to the faster 32bit, VRAM, VLB video cards when you can afford
}>>it and blow away any ISA video card.
}>
}>>So...all you DOOMers out there...VLB does work...and it's cheap!
}>
}>My benchmarking shows at most about a 2x speed increase for DRAM
}>VLB cards over the corresponding ISA counterparts. (I've seen
}>around a 4x max. over ISA for VRAM cards.) Cheaper chipsets
}>usually get around 25% to 75% better performance. The reason
}>for it being slower than the 2nd poster thinks is that the
}>DRAM used in the cheaper cards can't keep up with how fast
}>the bus can supply data.
I have noticed this in some of the reviews (Computer Shopper).
It seems often that the worst cards are chosen as benchmark demos,
For example a slow VLB SCSI cards compared to a fast ISA SCSI card.
I have seen this done to the point fo proving VLB SCSI slower than
a poor ISA IDE card.
I usually try to get as many different reviews as possible before
spending my hard earned cash. I can honestly say that shopping around
is a major neccesity before choosing a setup.
-Sandman
David Studly
While I hate to use such a long quote, I felt it necessary to make my
point. Both gentlemen have good points. The variable that is being left
out of this equation is the speed of the drive. A fast drive will be more
likely to get a higher transfer rate with VLB. A slower drive is going to
be virtually the same.
My experience with the following is this. My sister recently upgraded to
a 486dx-33 w/ VLB i/o card, but Seagate (I think) ST3144a. My 386dx-33
with an ISA i/o card and Western digital 340 posted a higher transfer rate
than her setup. The track-to-track seek on my Western Dig. was much
faster than her Seagate. My data transfer rate with 386 ISA and
WesternDig 340 was 1.1 MB/sec.
-David Studly, dst...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
J.J Nicholson
> I play DOOM on a Quadtel 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video card with
>8 megs of RAM, and it cruises! Check your CMOS.. change the ATCLK to
>ATCLK/4. That's the setting for a 486/33 I believe. (Any CMOS gurus..
>correct me if I'm wrong.)
Well, as far as I can tell the thing that affects DOOM performance the
most is the amount of ram you have available. The machines I have played
it on: 486SX25s both with Vesa Local bus Cirrus 1Mb cards, but one had
8Mb and the other 4Mb - the 8mb one Was well naughty but the 4mb was a
tad pedestrian. However it was still significantly faster than when it
had a 512k Trident in it...
Regards,
Jonathan
--
| All words are mine, nobody else's, their mine mine and ALL MINE |
| email : J.J.Ni...@dur.ac.uk Finger : d20...@deneb.dur.ac.uk |
| SUREFIRE SIGNS THAT STAR TREK IS TAKING OVER YOUR LIFE: |
| 16. Playing fizzbin and understanding it |
Doug DeJulio
hope this is apropriate.)
In article <1994Feb14.1...@sun490.fdu.edu>,
T. Murphy <tmu...@sun490.fdu.edu> wrote:
> I play DOOM on a Quadtel 486/33 with a trident 1 Meg Video card with
>8 megs of RAM, and it cruises! Check your CMOS.. change the ATCLK to
>ATCLK/4. That's the setting for a 486/33 I believe. (Any CMOS gurus..
>correct me if I'm wrong.)
Alas, my CMOS has no such setting. Not under that name anyhow. I'll
provide as much info as I can. Please help!
I've got an AMI BIOS copyright 1990. The motherbord uses the CAESAR
chipset from HiNT corporation. My CPU is a 486DX2-66, and I've got 8M
of RAM and a Trident 8900C based video card (by Quadtel corporation, I
think).
When I hit <DEL> on startup to bring up the CMOS utility, I get three
options for editing things. One is "Standard CMOS", and it's just for
setting things like the date and what my floppy drives are. Then
there's "Advanced CMOS" and "Advanced Chipset".
Under "Advanced CMOS", most of the stuff obviously has nothing to do
with video performance (like the order drives are checked during boot
time). The only things I saw that looked like they had the slightest
chance of helping were "External Cache Memory", which could be enabled
or disabled, "Internal Cache Memory" with the same options, and some
ROM Shadowing options. Both caches were already enabled. I turned on
the ROM shadows for the system ROM and the video ROM, and got a *very*
slight perfomance boost.
The "Advanced Chipset" stuff is all voodoo to me. Here's what my
choices are, and what options each one has:
Fast Reset Delay : can be 2us or 6us
Fast Reset + A20 emulation : can be enabled or disabled
1 clock delay for Local Bus : can bi enabled or disabled
Alternate Local Bus Timing : can be enabled or disabled
Cache Scheme : can be WR/Back or WR/Thru
486 Cache Mask (size:start) : can be disabled, or have values like "1MB:2MB"
2nd Cache Mask : as above
DRAM Mask Start : can be disabled, or have values like "1MB" or "2MB"
START/CMD for ISA DMA : can be enabled or disabled
And that's all my options.
Is it possible for me to get new ROMs, that would let me access other
CMOS options like the ATCLK one, or is my chipset just incapable of
doing stuff like that? I'll look at the jumpers to see if anything in
there looks like it serves a similar function.
Also, I've been getting a lot of CMOS checksum errors, and lately when
I turn off the computer the clock gets reset. Obviously I need to
replace the battery. Is this trivial to do with most motherboards?
The battery looks like this little tiny fat cylinder. Are these easy
to remove and find replacements for?
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Jason Miller
>I've got an AMI BIOS copyright 1990. The motherbord uses the CAESAR
>chipset from HiNT corporation. My CPU is a 486DX2-66, and I've got 8M
>of RAM and a Trident 8900C based video card (by Quadtel corporation, I
>think).
You are running Doom! on this and it is not acceptable ??? I run Doom! on a
Flex USA 486DX2-66 with a Dynamite Pro VLB 2meg card, it is awesome..
(I cant think of an apporaite adjective, awesome is so tired.)
I also think that if your battery is failing (as it seems to be) the setting
you listed below may not even be the correct ones.
>The "Advanced Chipset" stuff is all voodoo to me. Here's what my
>choices are, and what options each one has:
> Fast Reset Delay : can be 2us or 6us
> Fast Reset + A20 emulation : can be enabled or disabled
> 1 clock delay for Local Bus : can bi enabled or disabled
> Alternate Local Bus Timing : can be enabled or disabled
> Cache Scheme : can be WR/Back or WR/Thru
> 486 Cache Mask (size:start) : can be disabled, or have values like "1MB:2MB"
> 2nd Cache Mask : as above
> DRAM Mask Start : can be disabled, or have values like "1MB" or "2MB"
> START/CMD for ISA DMA : can be enabled or disabled
>Also, I've been getting a lot of CMOS checksum errors, and lately when
>I turn off the computer the clock gets reset. Obviously I need to
>replace the battery. Is this trivial to do with most motherboards?
>The battery look like this little tiny fat cylinder.
--
Yes replacing the battery is quite simple.. And maybe in sort shape or form
related to your "slow" performance in Doom!
Jason
Doug DeJulio
Jason Miller <jmi...@sleepy.ctstateu.edu> wrote:
>In article <CLAHA7...@cs.cmu.edu>, dd...@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:
>>I've got an AMI BIOS copyright 1990. The motherbord uses the CAESAR
>>chipset from HiNT corporation. My CPU is a 486DX2-66, and I've got 8M
>>of RAM and a Trident 8900C based video card (by Quadtel corporation, I
>>think).
>
>You are running Doom! on this and it is not acceptable ??? I run Doom! on a
>Flex USA 486DX2-66 with a Dynamite Pro VLB 2meg card, it is awesome..
>(I cant think of an apporaite adjective, awesome is so tired.)
Well, I'm a spoiled brat. I can run DOOM at full-screen hi-res, and
it will work and it's at least playable. The animation is too jerkey
for my tastes (devparm 3 or 4 dots). If I put it to lo-res, it's
better (devparm 2 or 3 dots). If I decrease the screen size three
notches below maximum (two below full screen with status bar) in
addition to lo-res, *that's* acceptable (devparm 1 or 2 dots).
What I really *want* is something with animation as fast as
Wolfenstein-3D on this system (it's *amazing*, it *has* to be more
frames per second than television and movies from the look of it), but
with graphics quality that rivals The 7th Guest. I'll settle for DOOM
in full screen mode with animation fast enough to get only 1 or 2 dots
with -devparm. So, I gotta buy a new video card within the next year.
--
Doug DeJulio
dd...@cmu.edu
Gerald Walls
William Birkmaier <wbir...@lynx.dac.neu.edu> wrote:
>In article <1994Feb14....@serval.net.wsu.edu>, mke...@eecs.wsu.edu (Michael Kelsey - EECS (Cpts499)) writes:
>> Honestly, what do those dots signify. I've been running netDOOM (only the
>> shareware version will fit on the labs PC's) for many weeks now on ultraviolence
>> and I have never seen more than three dots total!
>The dots are supposed to represent the frame rate. The less dots the
>faster the frame rate. One is suppoesd to be about 37 2 is 25 3 is 17.
>I dont remeber exactly.
I have a 486DX33 VLB with a VLB SVGA adapter and a VLB SCSI-2 with a
Connor drive. I have one plus a flicker when I've bothered to
check.
--
My Opinions Only | Who is John Galt? | Outlaw criminals, not firearms.
Gerald Walls | NRA Life Member | Don't blame me. I voted Libertarian.
"Law-abiding adults should always be free to own guns to protect their homes."
-- Bill Clinton
John Reinhold
: q6...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (PERKINS I CE4) writes:
: >I have one flikering dot on level 3 6 and sometimes one steady and the
: >second flickering. I only have a 486 dx2/66 with 20 megs RAM, VLB
: >CIRRUS login 2 meg video card, oh, it's also running under OS/2 ;)
: Wow, that's a wimpy machine. Only a DX2/66 with 20 Megs and a 2 meg vid
: card, what a total dinosaur ;-)
: And I thought I had it rough with my 486/33 and only 4 megs :)
: -Frank
Hey, Ive got it smooth too, Ive got a 486DLC/33 with 8 megs,
and get this: a VGA (Standard VGA ;) ) with a WHOPPING 256k.
I only get 6-7 dots! on Low Res! !!!!!!
More to the point, I am looking for a Video card to boost performance
(not an accelerator) for under $100. I also only have a VGA monitor,
so I would never use above 1024x768 resolution, But I doo need at least
1 meg, and a little bit better speed.
Thanx, also any more word on 1.2? <dare I ask>
-John R
David Vu
OK! On my 486/33 VLB motherboard:
Running vidspeed 3.x (4 wasn't out then):
My old Trident 9000 ISA cards could manage about ~2500 kB/sec direct
video RAM access.
Running comptest 2.59
The video RAM access has 26 wait states!
Bus speed 8.33 MHz, DRAM is 80 nanosec. Max access width is 16 bit.
Bought a S3 805 1 Meg VLB card:
Vidspeed:
~13000 kB/sec in text and 320x200x256 modes
~7000 kB/sec in other SVGA modes
Comptest 2.59
0 waitstate
Bus speed 33 MHz, DRAM is 45 nanosec. Max access width 16 bit.
Gripes: 24 bit colour mode didn't work too well for me.
Tried a ET4000/w32 (couldn't find the i or p revision)
Vidspeed:
~13000 kB/sec in *ALL* modes (using 16 bit transfers)
Comptest 2.59
1 waitstate
Bus speed 33 MHz, DRAM is 70 nanosec. Max access width *32* bit.
Gripes: bug in the chipset which is fixed in the i and p versions.
Ok! See the difference?
The trident card is very slow and inefficient. The S3 805 card is fast only
in text modes and 320x200x256 modes. In the other modes, it relies on the
accelerator driver to speed it up. The ET4000/w32 although not as fast as
the S3 in Windows, is the fastest for DOS and games in all resolutions.
And it is even *faster* when programs take advantage of the 32 bit 386
instructions to access the video RAM 32 bit at a time. Theoretically,
the ET4000/w32 can do ~26000 kB/sec using 32 bit access. Yes, 26Meg per
second! That means it can paint a hires 640x480x256 84 frames a sec!
So get an ET4000/w32i/p if you want the fastest for games. For me, I had
to settle for a plain ET4000 VLB because I couldn't find an i or a p
version at the time. Still gives me ~13000 kB/sec but only 16-bit
access.
Comments anyone?
-David-
Rune Moberg
> Gripes: bug in the chipset which is fixed in the i and p versions.
I've got an early ET4-W32 chipset I think, since I haven't heard of i and p
revisions. What bugs are corrected? A bug that disturbs me is miscoloring
in some old games (newer ones to now and then). A red color appears instead
of e.g. black. So my Monkey Island I (on CD) looks very damaged, and isn't
playable at all. :-( Do you know if they've fixed this?
--
=================================
= Rune Moberg (mobe...@nki.no) = Have U seen CD-Player Pro 4.5 (CDPPRO45.ZIP)?
=================================
William Ferrell
Although I didn't want to jump into this, I'd thought I'd ask for an
explanation of why this is true:
I have a 486sx/33, with a 1MB local bus VESA compatible video board built
into the motherboard (integrated VGA, they call it), 4 MB of RAM, and when
I run DOOM in -devparm mode I only get one flickering (two at the most) dots,
and about 30 - 40 FPS!
I don't know much about the technical aspects of computers, but that video
card must be doing something. I don't even have an external CPU cache!
BTW - it's an AST Advantage!Pro, with a Reveal Multimedia FX 16 EMC
(those guys _really_ like to tack on numbers and letters to the names of their
products... to make then sound better I guess. FYI it's SBPRO compatible,
16 bit, stereo, etc..) sound board and double speed CD-ROM (this matters?)
Thanks.
=============================================================================
"Well, your dead now, so SHUT UP!" | Get bent! ferr...@lamar.colostate.edu
-- Grim Reaper, Monty Python's |
Meaning of Life | "You got the BFG9000. Oh yes!" -- DOOM
Sebastian Eggert
>In article <CL87H...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Alexander R Moon) writes:
>|> The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
>|> SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at |>32-bits
>|> at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
>|> refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
>The performance advantages currently attributed to VLB are largely
>theoretical. All of the cheap VLB video cards use *exactly* the same
Bunch of bullshit deleted.
>I play DOOM on a 486DX-50 ISA system with an Orchid Farenheit 1280 card,
>and it screams, even in full screen, hi res mode. This is because the
>Orchid uses VRAM rather than DRAM. VRAM is dual port memory; i.e. it
>can be read and written simultaneously. VRAM is also more expensive than
>DRAM, and that is why some cheap VLB cards (using DRAM) perform poorly.
>If you want good performance with bit-mapped applications such as DOOM,
>be sure the card you are buying uses fast VRAM. And Alex is right about
>S3. Applications must be written to use the S3 chip, and DOOM is not.
It sounds like you just don't want to feel bad for having just an ISA bus. The
fact is that VLB is much faster and it has been proven by various tests that
indentical chipsets can perform twice as fast and are always faster on a VLB.
As far as VRAM goes that really is a waste of money, because the performance
increase is NOT significant and you can get the same results much cheaper
with memory interleaving. Sounds like you fell for some marketing hype.
Sebastian Eggert
Scott C. Dang
>
> What do you mean by "have problems with"? Does it fry the monitor?
> Is it just not supported? The only time I use 1024x768x256 mode is
> when I run X11 under Linux, and I only do that for very short periods
> of time (my monitor overheats at room temperature if left at that
> resolution for too long).
Well, from my own experience with the card, here's what I can say:
The 1024x768x256 mode is kind of wierd.. Some programs will work with it
fine. Others will cause the screen to get out of sync. It all depends on
how the program initializes the screen. I don't have much problems with
it with programs that specifically support it (like Display 1.55 and the
VESA standard. However, some programs that use different methods of
initializing it will make it work, but when you quit and run other
programs in lower resolutions, they are out of sync (one of the main
problems with the chipset). I have no problems with Windows when using
its specific drivers. Personally, it's not THAT big of a problem. Just a
little glitchy for the CHEAPEST card around. You pay for what you get :)
Don Lewis
I played doom on a 16 meg 486DX2-66 and doom allocated about 8meg for itsself.
The play is very good with a 2meg Tseng w32i Genoa Phantom card.
Don
Kolbjoern Broennick
>From: mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Alexander R Moon)
>Subject: Re: ** "Official" v1.2 Distribution **
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 18:03:19 GMT
>In article <2jo8rf$a...@cnn.sim.es.com> gben...@friendly.sim.es.com (Greg Bennett) writes:
>>
>>In article <1994Feb11.1...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>, u931...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (J.T.K. Tam) writes:
>>> In article <CKyvDJ...@cs.cmu.edu> dd...@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:
>>>
>>> > So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
>>> > in full-screen mode at hires?
>>> > Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so once I can afford a good card...
>>>
>>>
>>> I am running a 486DX33 with a S3 VLB card and it is blazingly
>> ^^^^^^^^^^
>>> fast. Maybe you should consider getting one, they are not expensive but
>> ^^^^
>>> yet provide ok performance>
>>> -Joe
>>>
>>
>>I hate to tell you this, but you performance cannot be attributed to your S3
>>card. An S3 card ONLY gives acceleration when drivers are loaded to take
>>advantage of it's speed. In reality, an S3 card can run slower than a generic
>>VGA card when running under DOS. Fortunately, A VLB card gives enough through
>>put that the card is at least as fast as a generic VGA card.
>>
>>DOOM will not run faster under an S3 card since it doesn't use S3 specific
>>drivers, hence it will not be 'blazingly fast' due to your card. I am
>>positive that your speed under DOOM is due to your DX2/66.
>>
>>BTW, I have an S3 Local Bus card also, and I AM impressed with it's speed
>>under Windows and OS/2 (with the appropriate drivers)
>>
>>--
>>Greg Bennett A.K.A. 'The Friendly User' (.).) { Belgium! *}
>>gben...@friendly.sim.es.com ^ '
>>Evans & Sutherland Simulation Division \___/
>>* See Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (US version)
>
>I hate to tell you this, but even if you're running DOOM under OS/2 or Windows
>(which is an impossibility until 1.2 [I mean Windows, not OS/2]), the software
>is doing direct video card access which will NOT go through any drivers you
>have loaded! You might realize this when you note that those drivers are
>specific to a given resolution which significantly higher than the 320x200 of
>DOOM. If you were running it in a window under OS/2 or Windoze (Which I don't
>think is possible) then you would be going through the drivers and you would
>see performance drop off SIGNIFICANTLY. DOOM is highly optimized at what it
>does. Those S3 drivers are somewhat optimized at what they do. What those
>drivers do (for the most part) is know how to draw lines, rectangles, and circles
>and move blocks of graphics. DOOM does none of this. It places pixels. A
>process which is more than likely SLOWED DOWN by high level drivers. That's
>why in the X port, they are using a library which still gives them low-level
>access to the video card instead of using the X graphics drivers as their
>interface. The fact that the card is local-bus, on the other hand, give a
>SIGNIFICANT improvement. That means the DMA DOOM is doing can occur at 32-bits
>at 33MHz instead of 16-bits at 8MHz. That means (theoretically) DOOM could
>refresh the screen ~8 times as fast. I'd call that a big improvement.
>
>mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu
>
Yes, Alex you're right, but I don't think the local bus gives a lot of
improvement compared to thew raw processing power of the 486 dx2. I've tried
both a dx2 66 with an ISA Et 4000 and a S3 805 VLbus card. This is because
of the small amounts of memory involved in using the 320*200*256 mode. 1
Page needs 64 kb of memory. This is not much compared with 1024*768*256.
This accelerator superstition is like the co-pro superstition. A graphics
co-pro is like the 387 in that it won't be utilized by the program unless
it's programmed specifically for it. The only game I know that uses the 387
is Falcon in hi-fidelity flight model.
KSB
chuck
: In article <CL87H...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Alexander R Moon) writes:
: >From: mo...@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Alexander R Moon)
: >Subject: Re: ** "Official" v1.2 Distribution **
: >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 18:03:19 GMT
: >In article <2jo8rf$a...@cnn.sim.es.com> gben...@friendly.sim.es.com (Greg Bennett) writes:
: >>
: >>In article <1994Feb11.1...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>, u931...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca (J.T.K. Tam) writes:
: >>> In article <CKyvDJ...@cs.cmu.edu> dd...@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio) writes:
: >>>
: >>> > So, what's a good, cheap video card that'll let a 486DX2-66 run DOOM
: >>> > in full-screen mode at hires?
: >>> > Fortunately, I've got VLB and EISA, so once I can afford a good card...
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> I am running a 486DX33 with a S3 VLB card and it is blazingly
: >> ^^^^^^^^^^
: >>> fast. Maybe you should consider getting one, they are not expensive but
: >> ^^^^
: >>> yet provide ok performance>
: >>> -Joe
: >>>
: >>
: >>I hate to tell you this, but you performance cannot be attributed to your S3
: >>card. An S3 card ONLY gives acceleration when drivers are loaded to take
: >>advantage of it's speed. In reality, an S3 card can run slower than a generic
: >>VGA card when running under DOS. Fortunately, A VLB card gives enough through
: >>put that the card is at least as fast as a generic VGA card.
HI Ho.... Now wait just a cotton picken minute here, just what is being said
here????? I CURRENTLY have a 386dx-40 running with 8meg and an off the shelf
trident 1meg svga card and DOOM runs OKAY, not great but okay. I emphasized the
word currently because I just place an order for a 486DX-40 with a diamond
speedstar vesa local bus 32 bit svga card with a vesa local bus mother board,
8meg of ram vesa local bus 32 bit IDE harddisk controller and a 410meg harddisk.Do you mean to tell me that all this NEW horse power is not going to give me
any signifecent speed over my lowly trident 386DX-40 system. I simply do not
buy that...........
: >
: Yes, Alex you're right, but I don't think the local bus gives a lot of