Half Life on TNT card - D3D version versus OPEN GL
Neptune
facts!!!!
Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
Also the TNT card produces excellent visual quality in a number of games,
allbeit with some difficultly in modifying settings......ie Quake2 certainly
needs a bunch of modification to various vid mode commands to produce a look
in the game that is better than the too red and too dark look that the
defaults achieve. That said, why does Half Life look so damn good in D3D
mode, and way too dark and too red in OpenGL Mode? I would prefer OpenGL
mode for playing as it supports fast frame rates at resolutions up to
1024x768. However with Gamma max'd it is still too dark to enjoy to game.
I heard there is a vid gamma command that can be used to modify the game,
but I can't find the exact command statement? Anyone? Also in single
player mode you can't get to the command console, so I assume you would have
to load and vid gamma command in a opengl.cfg, but where is this file?
Nowhere to be found? Fine I can create it, but where to put it? I assume
the root folder, but then the d3d.cfg is in another completely different
folder. So anyone have advice here.
Now I will get in to an area that touches the nervers of many in the
newsgroup. PLEASE resist to reply with my 3Dfx is bigger and badder than
your TNT. Don't let this boil down to something as stupid as penis wars.
Now I have used a Monster 1 in the past and found its visuals and
compatability excellent. No modifications to games to get things looking
great, just load up and go. Brightness effects all are perfect. Only
problem, no higher resolutions, and speed was no longer acceptable.
Remedy was a TNT card, and I gave up the Voodoo1 to a friend. So here I am
looking at Quake 2 with excellent visuals, frame rates, brighter *with some
effort in modifying cfg file, resolution (1024x768), all in all excellent.
Many other titles looked equally as impressive at the highest resolutions,
as long as they where D3D. These titles where Jedi Knight, NhL99, FU2,
Battle Zone, etc...
What pisses me off, and makes me justify getting a Voodoo2 card to go with
the TNT card, is lack of quality with some OpenGL titles, again dark, redish
visuals that makes gameplay far too challenging.
I wonder if programmers intend some of the looks that are achieved with
default settings on the TNT? It is obvious that many of these games where
developed before the TNT, but what about new titles like TR3, Half Life,
Carmagedon2, Shogo, etc....
All TOO damn Dark and Red. Basically they look like SHIT compared to
running on a Voodoo2, sure there is banding in the sky on the Voodoo2, but
at least I can find weapons in dark corners when I played some of these
titles on my old Voodoo1.
So are developers just getting around to making their games look good on the
TNT? Are they still all stuck in 3Dfx mode? The talk from major developers
is all about TNT quality of visuals. That said why does the OPEN GL mode
suck so bad on the TNT?
One final things, I don't want to modify my desktop to make the brightness
look better in games. Even with this extra effort, games look over
saturated, and crappy compared to Voodoo opengl modes.
Comments please............and please again limit the testosterone in the
replies. 3Dfx and Nvidia both make good products, it is the game developers
that I wonder about. Some games look better on Nvidia, and some look better
on Voodoo. I wonder if these two companies aren't doing this on purpose.
/NEPTUNE
Ben Baker
wrote:
I didn't recall reading which TNT based card you have. But, on my
Viper 550, I can adjust the gamma for D3D without affecting my desktop
gamma under the display properties. I don't see the ovor abundace of
red that you are speaking of. I would check my color and gamma
settings under D3D. I'm not sure how you do that on every TNT card.
But it sounds like something is out of whack.
Concerning the OpenGL. I too find it odd that the TNT image is so
dark by default under OpenGL games. It seems like Nvidia would
address this issue, assuming that it is something that could be fixed
with a driver update. Fortunately, QuakeII and all of the games based
on that engine support quite a few settings that tweak the image
quality well. Unreal doesn't. I would be interested in knowing more
about this as well. However, I used quite a few settings on the
Voodoo such as increasing the intensity. So, the Voodoo wasn't
perfect either. But, I would like to see better OpenGL support under
the TNT, so that games looked brighter without having to use the
maximum gamma settings.
Jerry Morelock
every mode HL supports. My choice to run the game is the V550 in D3D, using
the page flip mod. That mode gave me the perception of being slightly
slower at first, in 1100x res on a P2-400, but if it is, it's not enough to
make much difference. The improvement in looks over the V2 and TNT in opengl
is striking--very noticeable. Colors are richer and contrast is much
better, as well. (Maybe the color depth of which the TNT is capable is
supported better in D3D?) So far, everything I've tried that supports both
cards has ended up with me using the TNT in one mode or another. If my
primary interest--flight sims--begins to support D3D as a standard, I'm very
likely going to have two V2 cards for sale. But by the time that happens
it's likely that no one will want them.
Jerry Morelock
Neptune wrote in message ...
>First I don't give a S*&T about any my 3D accelerator. Please stick to the
>facts!!!!
>
>
>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
>
<snip>
bruce rennie
>
<Big Snip>
I hear you. Q2 was VERY dark when I first starting playing with
it on my Viper 550. I put a few tweaks in my autoexec and everything
is fine now. I will NOT go back to 800x600 or 640x480. :^}
Half-Life, on the other hand, was perfect from day one (no pun
intended).
Not dark at all. No tweaking required. Go figure.
I'm using the latest Diamond drivers. Maybe that is the difference?
/bruce
--
/*======================================================================*/
/* You'd be cranky too if you woke up and found yourself at work.
*/
/*
*/
/* Bruce Rennie Q: Are We Not Men ?
*/
/*======================================================================*/
steevo
drivers I did not adjust any of the gamma settings ..My quake 2 is not dark
either after restoring the default config settings and removing old idgamma
pak files and tweaks I had for my prior vid card. Maybe its an issue with
different types of Monitors?
For the Console in Half-Life single player , make a shortcut with the
switch -console added, should look like this:
hl.exe -console
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
steevo
J-E-T-S JETS! JETS!! JETS!!!
.
Neptune wrote in message ...
>First I don't give a S*&T about any my 3D accelerator. Please stick to the
>facts!!!!
>
>
>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
>
Neptune
really need to be in 640x480 to get reasonable performance. I start getting
a slide show at 1024x768 which ticks me off, because any other d3d titles I
have screams on the Viper550 TNT at this same resolution.
I tried to page flip mod as well. Maybe I am doing something wrong? I put
the statement noted in the readme in the d3d.cfg file that was located in a
sub directory.
I agree the d3d mode looks the best period. even better than Voodoo.
What drivers are you using? I am using hte .239 drivers from Diamond.
Maybe I should try the .41 drivers from Nvidia.
let me know.
/NEPTUNE
Jerry Morelock wrote in message ...
>I have a V550 and 8meg Monster 2's in SLI. I've tried both vid setups in
>every mode HL supports. My choice to run the game is the V550 in D3D,
using
>the page flip mod. That mode gave me the perception of being slightly
>slower at first, in 1100x res on a P2-400, but if it is, it's not enough to
>make much difference. The improvement in looks over the V2 and TNT in
opengl
>is striking--very noticeable. Colors are richer and contrast is much
>better, as well. (Maybe the color depth of which the TNT is capable is
>supported better in D3D?) So far, everything I've tried that supports both
>cards has ended up with me using the TNT in one mode or another. If my
>primary interest--flight sims--begins to support D3D as a standard, I'm
very
>likely going to have two V2 cards for sale. But by the time that happens
>it's likely that no one will want them.
>
>Jerry Morelock
>
>Neptune wrote in message ...
>>First I don't give a S*&T about any my 3D accelerator. Please stick to
the
>>facts!!!!
>>
>>
>>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
>>
><snip>
>
>
Neptune
using it with the d3d mode, as Opengl on a Viper550 or any TNT card looks
very dark.//confirm please.
nEPTUNE
bruce rennie wrote in message <3659736...@numetrix.com>...
bruce rennie
>
> When you say perfect from Day One (no pune I get it) I assume you where
> using it with the d3d mode, as Opengl on a Viper550 or any TNT card looks
> very dark.//confirm please.
>
Nope, I use a Viper 550 in default OpenGL mode @ 1024x768 for Half-Life
and it looks fine. Not dark at all.
I have downloaded the latest drivers from Diamond. Don't know if that
makes a difference or not. I'm also playing on a Optiquest 17" monitor,
which may have some impact.
I haven't even tried the D3D mode.
Now, Q2 WAS very dark. Over at www.planetriva.com there have been a
number
of posts regarding this problem. These are shown on the first screen in
the news section. You have to scroll down a bit to see them. Basically
they involve changing some of the settings related to intensity,
etc in your config files. After that, Q2 was great.
There may be something similar you can do with Half-Life.
If you can't find the fix, let me know.
Jerry Morelock
probably put the file in the right place. It's in the \half-life\valve\hw
directory. System resolution is at 1200x and HL is running at 1100x. Vsync
and antialiasing are on, and acceleration is max. I have one problem--I
can't go to the menu from the game and back to the game without the graphics
going to hell in the proverbial handbasket. If I use anything other than
quicksave I have to exit HL, then restart it. Other than A3D on my M80 not
working (there's a thought--maybe your sound card is responsible for your
performance woes) the only problem I've had in HL occurred at the generator
when the walls suddenly began attracting me.
Jerry Morelock
Neptune wrote in message ...
Neptune
at any of the higher resolutions. I am running in d3d at 1024x768 and it
looks and plays great/NEPTUNE
Jerry Morelock wrote in message ...
Neptune
drivers, but the OpenGL is still dark. I am using the ViewSonic 17PS, and
I believe the OPENGL prob is not with my system. I too tweaked Q2 as
instructed by Tweak Monkey amongst others, and have it looking great,
allbeit a PITA to tweak just right.
I saw a post or a web news item relating to Half Life Console gamma editing
command, but with no console in single player things get tricky. Now some
other smarter guy says you can get the console in single player by running
the game with a +console command but I haven't tried it as I don't know the
vid gamma adjust command.
Oh well they like to make these things challenging, I mean why can't the
programmers just make the gamma adjust to some ridiculously high settings so
that anyone can be accomodated with out dicking around with stupid commands
that no one can remember.
/NEP
bruce rennie wrote in message <3659B7D5...@numetrix.com>...
Jerry Morelock
already know the answer . . .<g>)
Jerry Morelock
Neptune wrote in message ...
MB
Direct3D games are developed for the TNT.
DVS Lurker wrote in message <73dtj1$ju...@news1.emirates.net.ae>...
>Keep saying 3Dfx sucks and hopefully one day a developer will be passing
>along this NG and he'll read all Your 3Dfx sucks posts and design a game
for
>the TNT! That Simple! ;-)
>
>
>Neptune wrote in message ...
>>First I don't give a S*&T about any my 3D accelerator. Please stick to
the
>>facts!!!!
>>
>>
>>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
>>
>>Also the TNT card produces excellent visual quality in a number of games,
>>allbeit with some difficultly in modifying settings......ie Quake2
>certainly
>>needs a bunch of modification to various vid mode commands to produce a
>look
>>in the game that is better than the too red and too dark look that the
>>defaults achieve. That said, why does Half Life look so damn good in D3D
>>mode, and way too dark and too red in OpenGL Mode? I would prefer OpenGL
>>mode for playing as it supports fast frame rates at resolutions up to
>>1024x768. However with Gamma max'd it is still too dark to enjoy to game.
>>I heard there is a vid gamma command that can be used to modify the game,
>>but I can't find the exact command statement? Anyone? Also in single
>>player mode you can't get to the command console, so I assume you would
>have
>>to load and vid gamma command in a opengl.cfg, but where is this file?
>>Nowhere to be found? Fine I can create it, but where to put it? I assume
>>the root folder, but then the d3d.cfg is in another completely different
>>folder. So anyone have advice here.
>>
Rygar1
wrote:
>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
Why not? It's different code.
>That said, why does Half Life look so damn good in D3D
>mode, and way too dark and too red in OpenGL Mode?
See above :)
>Don't let this boil down to something as stupid as penis wars.
LOL!!
>I wonder if programmers intend some of the looks that are achieved with
>default settings on the TNT?
Programmers don't program for one card, they program for the API.
>So are developers just getting around to making their games look good on the
>TNT?
I doubt they can do much for the TNT specifically. The problem is
probably in your drivers. I know my Diamond Viper 550 drivers are a
bit on the raw side. The desktop refresh when using Active Desktop is
embarrasing!
> Are they still all stuck in 3Dfx mode? The talk from major developers
>is all about TNT quality of visuals. That said why does the OPEN GL mode
>suck so bad on the TNT?
Drivers.
>I wonder if these two companies aren't doing this on purpose.
No way, they want to sell their games, not video cards.
DVS Lurker
along this NG and he'll read all Your 3Dfx sucks posts and design a game for
the TNT! That Simple! ;-)
Neptune wrote in message ...
>First I don't give a S*&T about any my 3D accelerator. Please stick to the
>facts!!!!
>
>
>Half Life runs on the TNT in OpenGL and D3D. First question, why is D3D
>version a lot slower than OpenGL version, even with the Page Flip
>modification to d3d.cfg that was suggested in the readme.txt?
>
>I wonder if programmers intend some of the looks that are achieved with
>default settings on the TNT? It is obvious that many of these games where
>developed before the TNT, but what about new titles like TR3, Half Life,
>Carmagedon2, Shogo, etc....
>
>All TOO damn Dark and Red. Basically they look like SHIT compared to
>running on a Voodoo2, sure there is banding in the sky on the Voodoo2, but
>at least I can find weapons in dark corners when I played some of these
>titles on my old Voodoo1.
>
>So are developers just getting around to making their games look good on
the
>TNT? Are they still all stuck in 3Dfx mode? The talk from major
developers
>is all about TNT quality of visuals. That said why does the OPEN GL mode
>suck so bad on the TNT?
>
>
>One final things, I don't want to modify my desktop to make the brightness
>look better in games. Even with this extra effort, games look over
>saturated, and crappy compared to Voodoo opengl modes.
>
>Comments please............and please again limit the testosterone in the
>replies. 3Dfx and Nvidia both make good products, it is the game
developers
>that I wonder about. Some games look better on Nvidia, and some look
better
>on Voodoo. I wonder if these two companies aren't doing this on purpose.
>
>
>/NEPTUNE
>
>
>
MM
<chainb...@email.msn.com> wrote:
(snip)
> I have one problem--I
>can't go to the menu from the game and back to the game without the graphics
>going to hell in the proverbial handbasket. If I use anything other than
>quicksave I have to exit HL, then restart it.
Interesting.. I have the same problem under D3D with an (AGP) Creative
Labs TnT card, but my system at work doesn't (and it has an AGP STB
4400).
I tried running the CL card under the latest CL & Nvidia drivers (.41)
no go. STill corrupts the video returning to the game from the menu.
(btw, the STB is running under Nvidia .36)
-MM
Valery Tsyplenkov
128 (Riva128-based, not TNT). If I press Escape during the game, it
will crash in module NVOGL.DLL. Argggh.
V.
On Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:57:56 GMT, Boo...@nospamorigin.ea.com (MM)
wrote:
Jeff Glazier
screwed up. I can play fine in OPENGL, but get the same problem when going
to the menu and back to the game. The screen freaks out. But, I can go
back to the menu, go into Video Mode, select OK, back to main menu, and
Resume Game and it clears up the problem. Works everytime.
If anyone knows why my mouse control freaks out when playing in D3D, I'd
love to hear possible solutions. I have the new Logitech wheel mouse (can't
remember what it's called, but it's the newest one).
Thanks,
Jeff
MM wrote in message <3664110d...@news.ea.com>...
Jerry Morelock
Thank god for the quicksave feature in HL that works well or I would have
returned it despite its excellence pretty quickly. Fortunately, as long as
I don't enter the menu after the game starts, everything's OK. Sometimes I
do a "hard" save when I'm quitting anyway, but the qsave works just as well.
Jerry Morelock
>Interesting.. I have the same problem under D3D with an (AGP) Creative
>Labs TnT card, but my system at work doesn't (and it has an AGP STB
>4400).
>
Werner Arend
On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Jeff Glazier wrote:
> I have an STB TNT 16mb card, and playing in D3D, my mouse control gets all
> screwed up. I can play fine in OPENGL, but get the same problem when going
> to the menu and back to the game. The screen freaks out. But, I can go
> back to the menu, go into Video Mode, select OK, back to main menu, and
> Resume Game and it clears up the problem. Works everytime.
>
> If anyone knows why my mouse control freaks out when playing in D3D, I'd
> love to hear possible solutions. I have the new Logitech wheel mouse (can't
> remember what it's called, but it's the newest one).
(1) After switching to D3D, restart the game. Should be ok then. Maybe you
have to restart your system, but after that it should definitely work.
(2) Have you installed any real-mode mouse drivers? They cause any kind of
problem, and you don't really need them.
Werner