BL2: Going to quit this game if I cannot figure out the "save" game crap!

[PW]

I just finished a few missions and when I restarted the game I am BACK
to the BEGINNING of where I started a couple days ago! WTH is going
on? I have to redo killing Boom and Bewn again?? And I went much
farther last night but I am back to Sir Hammerlock again and
everything seems the same as it did hours ago like I got nowhere. I
see the save game icon on the screen but it seems to do NOTHING! I
feel as though I am restarting the darn game over and over again each
time I play it!!

And I can't exit the game without it saving????? I even tried killing
the game and my PC ran CHKDSK!!!

What am I doing wrong??

Thanks,

-wp

[Anssi Saari]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> writes:

> I just finished a few missions and when I restarted the game I am BACK
> to the BEGINNING of where I started a couple days ago!

There was some problem with save corruption that was fixed in 1.2.0 it
seems from the update history and 1.3.0 fixed issues with precorrupted
saves. You're running the current version which is 1.3.1 now, right?

Other than that, saves have worked for I suppose quite a lot of people
since it's kinda hard to play otherwise...

[Tim O]

I detest the save system of Borderlands, because no matter where you
are in a level, it sends you back to the beginning and respawns all
the enemies (including mini-bosses) every time you exit.

The thing it *does* save however, is all of your completed objectives.
I have no obvious solution to this if you are truly completing all the
objectives of Hammerlocks mission.

My first suggestion would be next time you complete those missions,
get to a fast travel location, go back to Sanctuary and see what
happens when you re-enter the game.

[PW]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:21:44 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:57:08 -0700, PW
><emailad...@ifIremember.com> wrote:
>
>>I just finished a few missions and when I restarted the game I am BACK
>>to the BEGINNING of where I started a couple days ago! WTH is going
>>on? I have to redo killing Boom and Bewn again?? And I went much
>>farther last night but I am back to Sir Hammerlock again and
>>everything seems the same as it did hours ago like I got nowhere. I
>>see the save game icon on the screen but it seems to do NOTHING! I
>>feel as though I am restarting the darn game over and over again each
>>time I play it!!
>>
>>And I can't exit the game without it saving????? I even tried killing
>>the game and my PC ran CHKDSK!!!
>>
>>What am I doing wrong??
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>-wp
>
>I detest the save system of Borderlands, because no matter where you
>are in a level, it sends you back to the beginning and respawns all
>the enemies (including mini-bosses) every time you exit.

Ahhh.... that is what's happening!

>
>The thing it *does* save however, is all of your completed objectives.
>I have no obvious solution to this if you are truly completing all the
>objectives of Hammerlocks mission.
>
>My first suggestion would be next time you complete those missions,
>get to a fast travel location, go back to Sanctuary and see what
>happens when you re-enter the game.

Okay, will do Tim! Thanks so much.

[PW]

hehe

[Xocyll]

Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Borderlands (and sequel) follow the Diablo model.
The whole respawn thing is intentional for farming. Kill the bosses
over an over in hopes of special item drops - I generally can't be
bothered.

The thing that annoys me in borderlands2 is that mission that sends you
back to the glacier.
Having to fight your way all the way to the end to torch that guy and
then of course unlike when you went there the first time, the exit at
that end of the level is no longer there so you have to walk all the way
back.
Pure unadulterated time wasting.

There's a bunch of other examples - they send you into a new area, you
do whatever it is there and then a short while later they send you back
into that area - you can't just do it all in one pass.

There's some examples in Borderlands as well, but nothing as bad as the
sacrifice mission in Bl2.

I really wish games would stop using save points instead of save
anywhere.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

[Trimble]

PW ...the Borderland Saves are in
C:\Users\*YourUserName*\Documents\My Games\Borderlands 2\WillowGame\SaveData
If you look at the Modified dates there you can see how it works.

I HATE Checkpoint only games...But of all the games I have ever played
I accept the Borderlands (1st & 2) system as it is integral to the Game
Play.
Love or Hate it...I doubt many actually 'Love' it.

There are two types of Game Save checkpoint.
The main 'big box' New-U stations ones where you are returned to
each time the game is re started .
These are the ones with Vending Machines
& Catch-a-Ride & Fast Travel. & sometimes Bounty Boards.

Then there's 'little Box' New-U check point stations which only work
while playing in a game. Many more of these.
These Checkpoints are lost when you close the game.

Some things ... Bosses , etc. respawn ...some don't,
BUT the mission relating to any of them is only ever given once.
@@@@

Inspired by PW's O Post I've just taken a level 12 Heroin, who was near
Sanctuary,

back & through the "Best Minion Ever" Mission again.
That required Fast Travel to Southern Shelf Outpost then
Boom Bewm & on to Captain Flynt . Couldn't go any further on the Main Story
Line
as the Ship at the end of the Flynt section was of cause gone
from when Heroin went through the 1st time.

I must have past 5 Checkpoint New-U 'Boxes with Green light post' but the
Southern shelf Outpost
'Big Box' with fast travel point is the only one in the area where you are
returned to
after a quit game & restart.
Boom Bewm & Captain Flynt are still there & always will be.
There aren't as many other opponents as during the original Mission.

There are no XP & money Mission End rewards 'cause it's been done.
Hammerlock & Claptrap are not there ..the big gate is now always open..The
Ship is always gone.
The containers etc. are always full of Loot ..but always at the Level 4 / 5
quality.

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

[PW]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 23:05:21 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

I am supposed to find ClapTrap now after defeating BB and the map is
leading me through there again but they are still there so I have to
deal with them again? I just killed all of them! Maybe I am taking
the wrong path.

-pw

[Tim O]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:52:23 -0700, PW
<emailad...@ifIremember.com> wrote:

>I am supposed to find ClapTrap now after defeating BB and the map is
>leading me through there again but they are still there so I have to
>deal with them again? I just killed all of them! Maybe I am taking
>the wrong path.
>
>-pw

I've killed both the chick with the cannon and the captain more than
once. I think they respawn every time you enter their area's. Its not
even that difficult once you have decent weapons, its just tedious.

[Trimble]

PW..;) Your in the earlier part of "Best Minion Ever" which has a number of
stages.
I think you think you've completed the Boob Bewm section & you haven't.

God knows it drove me near Mad when I first did it.
One of those Noble people who create Walkthroughs says:
From here By SENIORBILL
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/638786-borderlands-2/faqs/65193
@@@@

"Boom will begin to shoot volleys from his turret weapon,
which is located on the raised platform just ahead in the middle of the open
area.

His shot-gunning jet-packing brother Bewm will come forward to hunt you
down.
Boom’s canon is deadly but it takes a few seconds to reload. Between shots,
snipe or use a fast-firing weapon to damage it.
Don’t try for Boom, just damage the gun.
You can easily hit the large body of the canon between his volleys.
If you kill Bewm too quickly you’ll get a rush of Psychos
making things considerably worse.

If Bewm is becoming a nuisance or when the damage to Boom’s mount drives him
off of it, run ahead to the narrow passage to the left of the canon.
If he is still on his gun mount, Boom can’t target you there.
Let Bewm pursue you; he may jetpack near or even behind you so be aware.
Once he goes down a wave of Psychos will surge into the battle.
If Boom is still firing, snipe the gun mount between volleys and Psychos.

When Boom leaves his mount, you must also put him down.
Like his brother, he has a jet-pack and can surprise you by soaring high
into the air, possibly landing behind you.
When he goes down, finish any Psychos left on the field.

With the battle won, Claptrap will tell you repeatedly and in no uncertain
terms that you must use Boom’s canon to destroy the gate-when he, CL4P-TP,
isn’t there of course.
Raid the compound and don’t miss the OUTHOUSE ITEM ENCLOSURE
not far from the exit where Claptrap is still beseeching you to shoot
the gate when he isn’t there (while he stays right there.)

Take out the gate with Boom’s canon and several waves of bandits will try to
come through it.
Use the canon to stop the rush. If anyone gets behind you,
dismount and finish them off."
@@@@

I did the whole of it with a Sniper Rifle from way back on the 1st part of
the complex.
1) Kill Bewm
2) Drive Boom from his cannon
3) Kill Boom now running around
4) mount cannon to shoot Big Gate
...Then its on to Captain Flynt :)

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") Mouse (Ahhh ! Madness..)

[PW]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:24:05 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Thanks again Tim. Seems very tedious. Not sure how much longer I
will play it! I don't have much of anything in regards to weapons,...
yet.

-pw

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:39:52 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

Hey Mousey! ;-) I used the cannon to blow open the gate, kill the
rush, and then found Klap. I killed Bewm but I do not remember
killing the guy with the jetpack. I saw the game save logo on the
screen so I thought it was safe to quit.

I continued through the gate and went onto another place. I thought I
would resume where I left off but no!

I never found a sniper rifle. I guess I am doing things out of order?

Now I am back at the base where the eccentric guy is and everything is
reset (the "graveyard", the elevator, all the boxes, etc...) including
having to do the whole battle over again.

Got me! One more try and then I have had it with checkpoint games!

Thanks,

-paulw

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 03:39:52 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

>PW..;) Your in the earlier part of "Best Minion Ever" which has a number of
>stages.
>I think you think you've completed the Boob Bewm section & you haven't.
>
>God knows it drove me near Mad when I first did it.
>One of those Noble people who create Walkthroughs says:
>From here By SENIORBILL
>http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/638786-borderlands-2/faqs/65193
>@@@@
>
>"Boom will begin to shoot volleys from his turret weapon,
>which is located on the raised platform just ahead in the middle of the open
>area.
>
>His shot-gunning jet-packing brother Bewm will come forward to hunt you
>down.

>BoomīŋŊs canon is deadly but it takes a few seconds to reload. Between shots,

>snipe or use a fast-firing weapon to damage it.

>DonīŋŊt try for Boom, just damage the gun.

>You can easily hit the large body of the canon between his volleys.

>If you kill Bewm too quickly youīŋŊll get a rush of Psychos
>making things considerably worse.
>
>If Bewm is becoming a nuisance or when the damage to BoomīŋŊs mount drives him

>off of it, run ahead to the narrow passage to the left of the canon.

>If he is still on his gun mount, Boom canīŋŊt target you there.

>Let Bewm pursue you; he may jetpack near or even behind you so be aware.
>Once he goes down a wave of Psychos will surge into the battle.
>If Boom is still firing, snipe the gun mount between volleys and Psychos.
>
>When Boom leaves his mount, you must also put him down.
>Like his brother, he has a jet-pack and can surprise you by soaring high
>into the air, possibly landing behind you.
>When he goes down, finish any Psychos left on the field.
>
>With the battle won, Claptrap will tell you repeatedly and in no uncertain

>terms that you must use BoomīŋŊs canon to destroy the gate-when he, CL4P-TP,
>isnīŋŊt there of course.
>Raid the compound and donīŋŊt miss the OUTHOUSE ITEM ENCLOSURE

>not far from the exit where Claptrap is still beseeching you to shoot

>the gate when he isnīŋŊt there (while he stays right there.)
>
>Take out the gate with BoomīŋŊs canon and several waves of bandits will try to

>come through it.
>Use the canon to stop the rush. If anyone gets behind you,
>dismount and finish them off."
>@@@@
>
>I did the whole of it with a Sniper Rifle from way back on the 1st part of
>the complex.
>1) Kill Bewm
>2) Drive Boom from his cannon
>3) Kill Boom now running around
>4) mount cannon to shoot Big Gate
>...Then its on to Captain Flynt :)
>(\__/)
>(='.'=)
>(")_(") Mouse (Ahhh ! Madness..)
>

So Trimble. I am back at the Southern Shelf where Sir is throwing
darts at a wall. This is after completing everything I just told you.
I think I am restarting the game or something like it.

The only option when leaving BL2 is "Save and Quit"! It forces me to
have to save the game wherever I am instead of bailing out.

I think I may have had enough! I have no idea how people have played
this game for hundreds of hours with this checkpoint junk.

Thanks again,

-pw

[Trimble]

PW <<<"...I think I may have had enough!">>>>

I sympathise. When I first got the 1st Borderlands I struggled through a
few Levels
then abandoned it confused & frustrated.
But later (much) I tried again & have become really seriously addicted to
both B1st & this B2.
We have to except the Mad, Mad surreal logic of the Game Worlds structure
& rules.

If you have been given & done the Big Gate shoot down with cannon
then you must have finished the Boom Bewm section.
After a restarted game you should be able to hurry
rush along, easily (fairly).
from the Sir Hammerlock Main Save point through the Boom Bewm
& now open Big Gate onwards

[Xocyll]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Think Diablo2 - there is no permanence in the world, just quests marked
off when they are completed and checkpoints/ toggled on, all the
critters will be back when you reload a savegame. Except quest monsters
that are only spawned by the quest I think (I don't recall ever seeing
Blue again after completing the safe quest

There's 3 basic save times -
1. when you hit a new-U station area - this is a place where you can
jump to from other transfer stations and a place where you will enter
the game when loading a savegame.
2. temp points - places where you'll respawn when you die which aren't
places you can fast travel to
3. completing an objective (or failing one I think)

It's a sort of combination of regular console style savepoints and a
save anywhere system for quests.

>I continued through the gate and went onto another place. I thought I
>would resume where I left off but no!

Nope, think of it more as a hub system with the new-U fast travel points
as the hubs - temp save points where you can respawn while playing and
save anywhere for quests.
Loading will always put you at the hub for the zone you're in.


This is not always a bad thing once you accept it.
As I mentioned in another message you have to come back to this area
again later on and fight your way all the way up past Captain Flynt
again - only this time the boat isn't there (how you leave the glacier
in the first place and why you go there the first time.)
After completing your task you can either walk all the way back to the
hub fast travel location OR save&quit and reload and just appear right
there.

>I never found a sniper rifle. I guess I am doing things out of order?

Well the only one you are guaranteed to get early on is from the
Bullymong fur quest IF you give the fur to Hammerlock - if you gave it
to claptrap instead he'd give you a shotgun.

You might have missed this quest entirely since it requires finishing
off the Bullymong with melee attacks.

>Now I am back at the base where the eccentric guy is and everything is
>reset (the "graveyard", the elevator, all the boxes, etc...) including
>having to do the whole battle over again.
>
>Got me! One more try and then I have had it with checkpoint games!

I'm not a fan of checkpoint systems, but it's not the worst thing ever.

It does suck mightily if you're part way through something and _have_ to
leave though since you do get tossed right back to the level start.

If you can adapt to that it's not a horrible game - though not as good
as the original Borderlands.

The DLC for the original Borderlands is even worse for save points -
lots of temps, but despite each DLC having multiple zones, there's only
one HUB per DLC and no fast travel within the DLCs.

Quite fun despite that grievous design flaw.
[I can kinda see their point about cluttering the fast travel system
with multiple transfer points per DLC, but you'd think they could have
put in a secondary fast travel system allowing fast travel within the
DLC while still only having one entry in the main fast travel system.
Too much work I guess.]

[Trimble]

I've just looked around "Best Minion Ever" again & yes its so there is only
two
'Full' Save points at the beginning with Sir Hammerlock &
at the very end after Captain Flynt.
Very mean.
There is likely another Full Save point down far south in this Southern
Shelf region
where the optional 'Shielded Favours' & 'Symbiosis' missions are.
The people (creatures ?) who design these games must have a really cruel
steak.

PW ..you are "Turning In" each quest to the relevant quest giver, yes ?

(I note that Claptraps Ship is now reappeared at the small Base right in the
middle
of the Bay ...with a Map Exit point aboard.)

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") Mouse (Ahhh ! 'Symbiosis' is the worst !)

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 20:03:55 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

>I've just looked around "Best Minion Ever" again & yes its so there is only
>two
>'Full' Save points at the beginning with Sir Hammerlock &
>at the very end after Captain Flynt.
>Very mean.
>There is likely another Full Save point down far south in this Southern
>Shelf region
>where the optional 'Shielded Favours' & 'Symbiosis' missions are.
>The people (creatures ?) who design these games must have a really cruel
>steak.
>

Okay - that explains it then. I guess I didn't make it all the way to
Captain Flynt (but I thought I did). Or I assumed that the save icon
that flashes on the screen actually meant something!

>PW ..you are "Turning In" each quest to the relevant quest giver, yes ?
>

Ummm - not sure what you mean?

Thanks!

-pw

[Trimble]

Re. Captain Flynt ..yes you have to take your Hero passed Killing Fiery
Capt. Flynt.
a bit further on to Claptraps ship which is the Mission end & Full
checkpoint.
@@@@

PW ..you are "Turning In" each quest to the relevant quest giver, yes ?

"""Ummm - not sure what you mean?"""

Hmmm (Oh dear)... after you finish each quest / mission the top right hand
of the
screen text show the goals 'ticked' as complete & a 'TURN IN' printed big
You have to return to who or whatever (Bounty Board) gave the Mission
to talk to them when you will get the Money & xp points (& a weapon)
rewards.
We can leave the Missions not turned in ...untill we want to.
Press 'L' to see all the Missions Details.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") Mouse (PW Showing Clear Signs Of Addiction ?)

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:39:38 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

Oh gosh! Maybe that is what happened!! Thanks so much for that info.

-pw

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:39:38 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

Just to drugs and alchohol! ;-)

I do like how bright and colorful the game is. And it's pretty funny
too. I did not get into BL1 for some reason.

I am enjoying it a little more that FC3, DisHonored, and Assasin's
Creed 3,...

><{{{{;>

There you go! A FISH instead of a wabbit! And all on one line :-)

I am a pisces, a Fly Fisherman, a Fly Fishing Guide and Outfitter so
there you have it!

Wanna see it again? ><{{{{;>

:-)))

[Tim O]

That definitely sounds like whats happening. Its kind of lame to have
to do it, but when I'm playing and know I'm only going to be away from
the machine for a couple hours I just pause the game and leave it
running.

You know about the codes on their facebook page right?
http://www.facebook.com/borderlandsgame
Usually every weekend they put up a code that give you a key to unlock
the chest at the fast travel station in Sanctuary. Good weapons and
shield in there from time to time, or just grab and sell what you
don't need.

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:09:21 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>

Don't do Facebook (or Tweeter,....). but thanks! I am going to boot
up BL2 in a few.

-pw

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> The thing that annoys me in borderlands2 is that mission that sends you
> back to the glacier.
> Having to fight your way all the way to the end to torch that guy and
> then of course unlike when you went there the first time, the exit at
> that end of the level is no longer there so you have to walk all the way
> back.
> Pure unadulterated time wasting.

Yes. However, there's a quickie way to get back at least: save and exit
to menu, then hit continue. You spawn at a fast travel terminal. Only
takes a few secs and the only downside AFAIK is that a mechromancer
loses all anarchy stacks.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn

spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Oh I realize that.
I didn't mean the walk back after the mission alone was the time wasting
- it's the whole send you back to the newbie/tutorial zone to walk a
long distance through unchallenging enemies that won't drop any kind of
worthwhile loot (including the 3 bosses on the way) just to do the
fairly pointless mission.
The chests similarly are newbie level locked so they'll only drop crap
as well.
Pure time wasting with zero reward.

I guess they spent some time designing the area and just wanted to force
you to experience it again without actually thinking it through.
It's not fun in a loot based game to be forced to go somewhere where you
aren't going to get any real loot. Where, in fact, there's absolutely
no chance of getting any real loot appropriate to your level because
it's locked at a lower level deliberately.

Pure unadulterated time wasting - just there to make a shortish game
seem longer.

And actually the Mecromancer isn't the only one with a buildup skill
like that, Zero has Critical Ascensi0n and Rising Sh0t and CA can stack
up to 999 times. I don't know how high someone has actually gotten it
to stack though but that's it's listed limit.
Axton and Maya don't seem to have any and I've never played the
Gunzerker so I dunno about it.

Although I'll note I _don't_ use Anarchy on my MMR - I like accuracy so
skills that degrade it don't get used.
Now if Borderlands2 had Class COMs like in Borderlands that had ammo
regen, I might have reconsidered that decision - but no ammo regen +
wasting lots of ammo is just not a recipe for fun in my book.

[PW]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:39:38 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

Well, I think I have had it. I went through everything once again to
get meet up with the robot. I think it took me over an hour and I did
not get to that checkpoint. Now I am back once again to Sir
whatshisname.

I have no idea why the game says "do not turn off your computer when
you see this symbol" as that is totally BS.

That is a long time in a game to get from one checkpoint to another.

No Mas! I am not going to battle the BB bro's again. THIS IS NOT
FUN!

-pw

Thanks everyone for your help! I am not going to battle

[PW]

This game is just darn tediouis. How many times do I have to kill
B&B???? The "Save and Quit" is totally useless and does not do what
it says.

Garbage Game Of The Year!

[Tim O]

Every time you make a new trip through their level. Everything
respawns in Borderlands whenever you leave.

I'm kind of wondering what you're doing to have to keep fighting them.
I have about 50 hours in the game and I've killed them twice. Are you
using fast travel at all?

[Anssi Saari]

Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com> writes:

> I'm kind of wondering what you're doing to have to keep fighting them.
> I have about 50 hours in the game and I've killed them twice. Are you
> using fast travel at all?

I suppose the lack of fast travel stations is his problem. It's fairly
long from Southern Shelf to Three Horns Divide which is the next Fast
Travel station. So you kill B&B, push through the bandits until the boss
fight with Flynt, go to Clappy's ship, reach mainland in, jump through
a few more hoops to get a car, jump the blown bridge, and finally take
the short drive to the fast travel station.

I guess that's anything from 20 to 60 minutes game time. I seem to
remember Flynt wasn't easy to kill on my first attempt with Maya. Since
then though, experience and stronger characters have made it pretty
easy. Or well, we'll see. I just started PT2 with Maya but haven't left
Southern Shelf yet. The fights against the Super Badass Bullymongs
haven't been that challenging though.

[Xocyll]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>This game is just darn tediouis. How many times do I have to kill
>B&B????

Twice per difficulty level IF you do the firehawk cult missions, once
otherwise.

If you *choose* to repeatedly quit out before reaching the next load
point then you'll have to keep repeating that bit, but that's totally up
to *you*.

>The "Save and Quit" is totally useless and does not do what
>it says.

Actually it does exactly what it says, and exactly what the previous
game did, it's just not doing what you want it to do.

I'll write it again.
There's the New-U stations that are the HUB load points where you can
enter the game and/or fast travel to.
There are temporary checkpoint saves throughout the game which is where
you will respawn after you get killed.
There's the quit and save function which saves the state of your QUESTS,
you inventory, ammo levels etc, not the state of the world.
The world and the critters will always be back to their default state
when you fire up the game.

This is why B&B are always back BUT why the gate does NOT have to be
reopened - you completed that quest.

It's not a bug, it's an intentional part of the design of the game, just
as it was with the original Borderlands and Diablo2 before it.
Reach a boss you cannot beat because your gear isn't good enough and
your skills aren't up to it (your character class skills that is) and
you save/quit out, reload and fight the critters some more until you
level up and/or have gear that's enough better so you can defeat the
boss and move on.

The alternative is to make every "boss" easy enough to be defeated by
the worst possible character build with the weakest class, with the
worst possible weapons, which would be exactly zero challenge to any
character built well and with decent weapons.

Why did this happen? Go back to the original Diablo game - in single
player mode and it did have save anywhere, and it did save the state of
the world and critters did not reload.
Players who had luck that wasn't so great and got lousy drops would
reach a point in the game where they could not continue.
Enemies were somewhat randomized, loot drops were definitely random and
since you had cleared everything up to that point it was both impossible
for you to defeat the existing enemies with the gear you had and
impossible to level up and/or gain any new gear.
Not an issue in multiplayer mode since the state of the world was not
saved there.

Enter Diablo2 with the waypoint system and the single player save mode
being exactly the same as the multiplayer mode so that problem could
never happen again.

Borderlands and Borderlands 2 use the same system for the same reason.

Think of the alternative if it saved the way you wanted - what would YOU
do if you fought your way up to Flynt; saved the game and fought him and
lost and reloaded and lost and reloaded and lost - you just did not have
good enough equipment/skills/luck to beat him.
There nothing to kill to level up or to get loot from, you could maybe
walk all the way back to Hammerlock's little village to check the
vending machines for better gear and just stand there rechecking every
20 minutes until a decent weapon spawned (if one ever did), then walk
all the way back up to Flynt through a vacant wasteland you previously
cleared to try fighting him again.
And your gear or skills are still not quite good enough, but now you're
broke and can't buy anything at all, nor earn any more money.
Now you're stuck; you can't kill that boss, so you can't ever get any
further in the game, all you can do is reload and try again, over and
over and over and over and...
Until you give up and start a new game and *HOPE* that this time you'll
have better luck with drops and will actually be able to defeat the boss
when you get there. And *maybe* you will.

Not a great gameplay mechanic is it?

How many players would start a new game to try again instead of just
saying "this game sucks" and quitting forever?
How many players would start a third game when they brick wall again on
the second?

>Garbage Game Of The Year!

It's a disappointing sequel, but not because of the save mechanics which
are following a trend and design over a decade old now.

All you have to do is actually play long enough to get to the next Hub,
the city of Sanctuary, and you'll load there next time.
Continue to quit out short of there and you'll continue to start at the
previous hub.

You *have* to fight your way through Boom and Bewm, fight your way up
through the bandit village to the ship, defeat Flynt, take the boat to
the next area where you'll have to clear a small bandit village and
retrieve a part in order to get a vehicle, get a vehicle, go to
Sanctuary, be told to do a mission for them before you get admitted (a
rescue), do that mission, rescue the guy, then retrieve the part they
need while killing loads of bandits (hardish depending on weapons)
Then you go to Sanctuary and it becomes your new hub.

Takes a couple hours all told unless you really screw up your character
build and/or get only the most useless crap dropping for weapons.

[Trimble]

<<<<"All you have to do is actually play long enough to get to the next Hub,
the city of Sanctuary, and you'll load there next time."<<<<<<<<<

It would help if the game clearly showed when a New-U Save point station
is a 'Full Save' point rather than a 'Temporary Checkpoint'

I don't find the presence of a Fast Travel point necessarily
means its a 'Full Save' When u quit point.

I've search with out success the Net for a map / list of those
'Full' save points..
I've also tried Alt-Tab'ing out of the game & making a copy of
the current "Tempory" Checkpoint .
Then on another start up of the game putting that Save copy back
..jumping my Hero(ien) aver some nearby Cliff(etc)
to force a New-U at the copied game save point.
Doesn't work. Tho. I can't see why not.
This is with B1st.

I don't mind the Save System when playing Main game,
but it has driven me away from
the Claptrap Robot DLC ....far , far to much travelling back at each game
start.


Still the number of times PW has presumably been through that "Best Minion
Ever"
B&B & Capt. Flynt mission must mean he has built up
to an enormous Level (for that part of the game.)

@@@Mouse@@@

[PW]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 05:28:54 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

i have no place to fast travel to. It's either the robots place or
the shelf. This game is a POS. I just spent a couple more hours
trying to beat the minion thing. Everytime you die, you lose ammo and
health. Which doesn't help one bit. It is too long a stretch between
checkpoints. I gave up which I think means that I will be back with
Sir Whatever and have to do it all again.

I thought I was close to the Captain Flynt area.

I just bought the Brady Games book but if I end up starting all over
again then I will uninstall it.

Thanks for your help.

My vote for Garbage Game Of The Year.



-pw

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

><<<<"All you have to do is actually play long enough to get to the next Hub,
>the city of Sanctuary, and you'll load there next time."<<<<<<<<<
>
>It would help if the game clearly showed when a New-U Save point station
>is a 'Full Save' point rather than a 'Temporary Checkpoint'
>
>I don't find the presence of a Fast Travel point necessarily
>means its a 'Full Save' When u quit point.

I think there may be one or two load points that aren't fast travel
points (although I can't think of any offhand except the Warrior area),
but every fast travel point is a load point - that's the nature of the
hub system. Or rather I should say, every point you can fast travel _to_
is a game load point as well.
I put in that clarification because the warrior area has a fast travel
point just outside it (by the vendor machines) that you can travel from
but not to. Warrior runs need to be quit/save immediate reloads to
appear there - once you fast travel out you travel back to the very
beginning of the zone, not the immediate warrior area.

>I've search with out success the Net for a map / list of those
>'Full' save points..
>I've also tried Alt-Tab'ing out of the game & making a copy of
>the current "Tempory" Checkpoint .
>Then on another start up of the game putting that Save copy back
>..jumping my Hero(ien) aver some nearby Cliff(etc)
>to force a New-U at the copied game save point.
>Doesn't work. Tho. I can't see why not.

Because it probably saved the game after you copied that file in there
and/or is holding it in ram and NOT loading it from disk when you die.

About the only file manipulation you can do while in game is setting a
savegame to read only to stop info saving to it (the first 5 backpack
upgrades on play 2 when you are far more likely to get a grenade mod
instead - set to read only for as many hand in's as it takes to get the
backpack mod instead.)

If you try this trick with BL2 (cashing in a quest for an item reward -
like the talking shield/gun from the homicidal AI or such) be aware that
you can't just quit out and reload - you have to quit out, reselect that
character and reload, otherwise it doesn't reload the file from disk and
the reward will still be there in the inventory and the quest marked as
completed and handed in.

>This is with B1st.
>
>I don't mind the Save System when playing Main game,
>but it has driven me away from
>the Claptrap Robot DLC ....far , far to much travelling back at each game
>start.

Yeah I dislike that one too, especially that you have to do some mission
before you're even allowed in town.
The only reason I do it at all is for the backpack upgrade and I only
finished it afterwards because by the time you can get the upgrade
there's only a few more missions in the main chain anyway - I skipped
ALL the side missions available in that town.

Really ALL the DLCs (except underdome I guess) need a few fast travel
points within them, they all involve long travels at times.
I really don't know much about the underdome DLC as I only ever use it
for the bank item storage - I don't do arena fights ANYWHERE in the
game, since I hate that contrived shit.

>Still the number of times PW has presumably been through that "Best Minion
>Ever"
>B&B & Capt. Flynt mission must mean he has built up
>to an enormous Level (for that part of the game.)

Probably, but his comment about not having a sniper rifle means either
he didn't do the bullymong fur mission, handed it in to claptrap instead
for the shotgun, or that he hasn't actually been handing in the quests -
he never really made that clear.
I really don't understand what trouble he's having, Flynt really isn't
that long a distance to go to, and he's not that tough a boss (unless
you're trying to use a fire weapon on him against all reason, logic and
game instructions) but he doesn't seem to be getting there and just
seems to be quitting out at random and expecting that this time the game
will magically do a save anywhere and save the state of the entire world
instead of what it actually does.
I don't know how many people have told him that the next load point is
in Sanctuary, but he apparently STILL expects one to magically appear
before that.
I really can't understand that attitude.

It's not like the save point/hub system it uses is something new - it's
pretty much _exactly_ the same system Diablo2 used back in 2000, and I
may recall wrongly but I think Darkstone used it in 1999 (but I haven't
played that in a decade so I can't be sure.)

I will admit that the total time you need to get from Hammerlock to
sanctuary is not inconsiderable since you don't go there straight after
Flynt but have other things to do before you're actually admitted.

That was probably a mistake and certainly NOT what I would have chosen
to do - I'd have made the boat landing after Flynt a load point, since
it is the first major area change and a logical place for people to quit
out.

[Trimble]

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Cheers :)

[PW]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:26:50 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

Level 8 I think. I don't know what it has gotten me. I only have
shotgun and something similar, and the pistol of course. And some
grenades.

Thanks!

-pw

[PW]

Trying to run myself to where I left off is garbage. I get shot in the
back and then ganged up where I left off, with those zombies tracking
me down everywhere I go (even though I managed to sprint through the
gate.) The BB boys continue to track me down before hand and do me
much damage. I am so SICK of getting respawned at these "check
points", losing most of my health and ammo.

60 minutes and more of game time (just once!!!) just to get to the
first checkpoint is garbage. I started the game on Normal. I don't
know where people get the time to invest that to time to play games
like this without a RATIONAL Quick Save and Quick Load games or
RATIONAL checkpionts.

And after reading the BradyGames book about this game, it looks HUGE.
How many more times will this GARBAGE continue after I kill the
pirate?? Probably LOTS more of the same crap!

I could have teached myself something profitable in the time I have
spent playing this game. And enjoyed another rational game.

Strategy does not seem important to this game (it does not matter if I
hide behind things or not). I have never seen crap like this before
in my gaming life.

Thanks for everyone's help.

I have no idea how games like this sell millions of copies.

Again, 60+ minutes of hectic play for a console checkpoint is CRAP!
Yet games like this get great reviews and they are not held
responsible.


-pw

[Toby Newman]

I think it's designed around co-op multiplayer. You might find that
with three friends, the 60 minute investment of your time would just
be 15 minutes?

--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.

[Tim O]

You need to get a sniper rifle... Maybe we did stuff different, but I
already had a really good one by this point in the game. Just kept
sniping the cannon shooter, then disappearing (playing as Zero) and
slashing the guys on the ground.

I had more trouble with Flynt first time through. I got killed a
couple times trying to get to him, but think I respawned close (its
been a while).

I'd actually invite you to a STEAM game and give you some good
weapons, but I don't any of it is usable if you're below like level
15. Let me know if you're going to hang in there with it.

[Mike S.]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 09:52:51 +0000, Toby Newman <goo...@asktoby.com>
wrote:

>I think it's designed around co-op multiplayer. You might find that
>with three friends, the 60 minute investment of your time would just
>be 15 minutes?

If it really takes 60 minutes of play to get from one save point to
the next, then the save system in that game is broken. I hope that
number is inaccurate.

[Xocyll]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Trying to run myself to where I left off is garbage. I get shot in the
>back and then ganged up where I left off, with those zombies tracking
>me down everywhere I go (even though I managed to sprint through the
>gate.)

What in the hell are you playing?
There are no Zombies in Borderlands2 at all.

Ok, so instead of _fighting_ your way through, you're trying to run past
enemies and the complaining when they follow you and shoot you in the
back?

Those aren't mindless, shuffling zombies that you can lose, those are
bandits - they can think, use weapons, run and track you and they want
to kill and possibly eat you (not to mention there's a HUGE bounty on
your head), so of course they aren't going to give up when you run past
them.

>The BB boys continue to track me down before hand and do me
>much damage. I am so SICK of getting respawned at these "check
>points", losing most of my health and ammo.

Well what the fuck do you expect, you're supposed to KILL them, not run
past them and allow them to shoot you forever.

You don't get shot in the back if you kill them before you walk past
them.

If you haven't noticed, a lot of the time when you respawn after getting
killed, you respawn with FULL AMMO and full health - that's right the
game gives you free ammo.

>60 minutes and more of game time (just once!!!) just to get to the
>first checkpoint is garbage. I started the game on Normal. I don't
>know where people get the time to invest that to time to play games
>like this without a RATIONAL Quick Save and Quick Load games or
>RATIONAL checkpionts.

I have to ask, have you done _any_ of the missions other than the ones
you have to for the main quest line?
You should have lots of at least decent weapons by the time you start
for Flynt the first time.

>And after reading the BradyGames book about this game, it looks HUGE.
>How many more times will this GARBAGE continue after I kill the
>pirate?? Probably LOTS more of the same crap!

Well if you insist on not actually playing the game but trying to do
things the game was never designed for, yep, you're going to experience
the same "Garbage" again.

>I could have teached myself something profitable in the time I have
>spent playing this game. And enjoyed another rational game.

I guess you could start by learning that "teached" isn't a word in
English.

>Strategy does not seem important to this game (it does not matter if I
>hide behind things or not). I have never seen crap like this before
>in my gaming life.

Actually it matters a hell of a lot - if you just stand out in the open
you WILL get shot to shit by humanoid enemies and/or be mauled by the
wildlife and be visiting the respawn points a lot.


Or are you saying that it doesn't matter if YOU hide or not because
since you're running past things you're ending up surrounded and can't
hide from all the incoming fire?

>Thanks for everyone's help.

It doesn't sound like you're even reading the replies since you're
complaining about things and asking questions that have already been
answered.

>I have no idea how games like this sell millions of copies.

Because most people know how to play and play game the way they were
intended to be played?

I have to ask, have you done all the quests from the first HUB, not just
the main quest line?
Those "side quests" are what get you to the appropriate level to fight
things AND provide you with better weapons (either loot, quest rewards
or bought with the money earned) - skip them and you will be hopelessly
under gunned for the main quest line.

The game was designed such that you are supposed to do ALL of the
quests, unless you are a phenomenal player that has the skill to
compensate for the lack of equipment - from your posts, that ain't you.

Are you even checking the vendors for better gear?
Using good, accurate weapons that can hit from a distance?

[This is NOT a First Person Shooter where only YOUR skill matters - use
an inaccurate weapon and it doesn't matter if the crosshair is right on
the target, you're likely going to miss.
Choose class skills that boost accuracy (if the class has them) to help,
especially early on. Obviously this is level 6+.]

What class are you playing anyway?

Are you trying to make it through with the starter gear?
Pistols and shotguns are not much good beyond point blank range and you
will take a lot of return damage if you're getting that close.

SMGs, Assault rifles and Sniper Rifles are what you need and what you
should have had long before trying to get to Flynt.

No matter how skilled you are the, starter gear will not ever be enough
to get you past Flynt, EVER!

>Again, 60+ minutes of hectic play for a console checkpoint is CRAP!
>Yet games like this get great reviews and they are not held
>responsible.

I guess you hated Borderlands too, and Diablo2.
One could argue that Diablo2 was far worse since the levels were in no
way linear and you could spend hours in some areas and still not find
the waypoint.


One last hint - shoot the humanoid enemies in the head - you do extra,
"critical" damage that way so they require fewer bullets to kill - you
will have to be able to aim and hit them there so again, use ACCURATE
weapons - ones with a MINIMUM of 85% accuracy.

Use a weapon with low accuracy and most of your shots are going to miss
and you will run out of ammo.
It's possible to miss from nearly point blank with some weapons.
You can't _quite_ stick a shotgun in something's mouth and miss when you
pull the trigger, but you can miss from just a few feet away.

The weapon with the highest damage is not always the best weapon - not
if you can't hit with it, not if it wastes ammo (like those burst fire
sniper rifles.)

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:44:32 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

[Appropriate comments snipped]

>>I could have teached myself something profitable in the time I have
>>spent playing this game. And enjoyed another rational game.
>
>I guess you could start by learning that "teached" isn't a word in
>English.

Xocyll I'm just surprised you've let it go this long. No amount of
patience with the guy will encourage him to engage brain, or stop his
incessant whining, or just pay a little bit of attention to things
around him. He'll act appreciative then repeat the cycle over and
over. Kill-filing him sooner rather than later pays big dividends in
terms of lack of time wasted.

[PW]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 09:52:51 +0000, Toby Newman <goo...@asktoby.com>
wrote:

I didn't pay $90 (including the book and shipping) to play
multiplayer. I rarely play MP games. But I remember that is what the
previous version was about. Thanks though!

[PW]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:44:32 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Trying to run myself to where I left off is garbage. I get shot in the
>>back and then ganged up where I left off, with those zombies tracking
>>me down everywhere I go (even though I managed to sprint through the
>>gate.)
>
>What in the hell are you playing?
>There are no Zombies in Borderlands2 at all.

Psychos

[PW]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:46:14 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I think my chance to get a sniper rifle was in the beginning of the
game Tim so I missed the opportunity. I think I had problems with
that level any way.

This is a long and difficult way to go before a real checkpoint for
any game that I have played.

Thanks!

-pw

[PW]

>Ok, so instead of _fighting_ your way through, you're trying to run past
>enemies and the complaining when they follow you and shoot you in the
>back?
>

Great points X, but someone told me here (I think) that since I
already blew open the gate that I should be able to run through them.

Love the enthusiasm about BL2 here and the support you all have given
me!!

But the long time between saved games is worrisome. I assume it will
continue.

-pw

[Xocyll]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>

>>Ok, so instead of _fighting_ your way through, you're trying to run past
>>enemies and the complaining when they follow you and shoot you in the
>>back?
>>
>
>Great points X, but someone told me here (I think) that since I
>already blew open the gate that I should be able to run through them.

Yeah, you can run through the GATES since they're already open once
you've killed B&B and opened them the first time.

Running through enemies is a fast ticket to getting shot to shit, except
when you're running to a cleared area. Some areas will repopulate over
time even if you haven't left the zone so you can die, respawn and find
that some of the critters you already killed have respawned while other
ones farther on have not. Some enemy types can be outrun and some may
give up, but those bandits are tenacious little fuckers with all the
aggression of a Wolverine on PCP.

>Love the enthusiasm about BL2 here and the support you all have given
>me!!

I didn't actually care that much for it.
It's not a bad game, but from my point of view they made a lot of
mistakes in making this sequel.
The very long distance between HUBs is one of those mistakes - I guess
they figured that everyone who would be playing is a kid who can and
would sit and play for 3+ hours at a time and would have no problem with
the time required OR the single user of the computer who could leave it
running when they needed to be doing something else.

At least BL2 is less crashy than BL1, you can pause it and alt-Tab out
and do other things while it remains active and stable - BL1 on the
other hands crashes on me about 75-90% of the time if I tab out.

>But the long time between saved games is worrisome. I assume it will
>continue.

The one between the newbie zone hub and the sanctuary hub is the longest
one in the game. Some of the others are longish, but this is the
longest one. Take some solace in that.

I've been replaying BL1 and finding it a much more fun game overall.

[Xocyll]

PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:44:32 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>Trying to run myself to where I left off is garbage. I get shot in the
>>>back and then ganged up where I left off, with those zombies tracking
>>>me down everywhere I go (even though I managed to sprint through the
>>>gate.)
>>
>>What in the hell are you playing?
>>There are no Zombies in Borderlands2 at all.
>
>Psychos

They are most definitely alive, thus not zombies.

[Trimble]

Running through sections in (both) Borderlands is sensible
& possible in many situations.
When having to go back through an already done bit to
get to where ever you were.

And tedious prolonged combat (using up Ammo & health)
sections can be rushed through sometimes.

IMO its worth remembering the we don't HAVE to fight n kill everything
always.

The main incentive to fight (nearly) everything is re. building
up XP points & for the Hell o it.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Bang, Biff Squeak)

[Anssi Saari]

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> I've been replaying BL1 and finding it a much more fun game overall.

I also started a new Lilith character. Haven't played that much, until
killing Nine Toes only so far. It's funny how the little things are now
annoying. No minimap for example and do I really need to pick ammo and
money by hand?!? And sell things one by one? Let alone all the little
bugs and usability warts Gearbox never got around to fixing...

But other than all that, still solid fun.

[PW]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:37:54 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>

wrote:

>PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:44:32 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>PW <emailad...@ifIremember.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>>>of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>Trying to run myself to where I left off is garbage. I get shot in the
>>>>back and then ganged up where I left off, with those zombies tracking
>>>>me down everywhere I go (even though I managed to sprint through the
>>>>gate.)
>>>
>>>What in the hell are you playing?
>>>There are no Zombies in Borderlands2 at all.
>>
>>Psychos
>
>They are most definitely alive, thus not zombies.
>
>Xocyll

Okay :-)

[John Lewis]

If you are a SP gamer, avoid PC games with consolitis check-points and
no save-anywhere like the plague, unless you hear from fellow PC
gamers/forums that the checkpoints are VERY reasonably/thoughtfully
distributed.

To help avoid this trap, and if you are primarily a SP gamer, please
do not first make the following #1 and #2 game-purchasing mistakes.

#1 Mistake: Pre-ordering.. NEVER..NEVER..
Ignore throw-away extras inserted to entice the pre-order lemmings


#2 Mistake: Buying the game within a month after release.
Give time to get (a) real USER-feedback (b) a first round of bug-fixes
(c) maybe take advantage of the first round of discount sales.

As a SP gamer, a delay in purchase is all to your advantage (and far
less frustration with bugs and gameplay issues) as you have no need to
worry about MP "exhaustion", the time after game-release when many of
the others players get bored and drift off like butterflies to the
next new source of MP nectar. After all, if one buys lots of games on
a continuing basis, there is only the same number of hours (maxed at
24hrs) available in the day to play them.

Hmmm....on this newsgroup, maybe we could call the MP butterfly-effect
the Rin-syndrome...... ???

John Lewis

[Mike S.]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:52:37 GMT, john...@frontier.com (John Lewis)
wrote:

>If you are a SP gamer, avoid PC games with consolitis check-points and
>no save-anywhere like the plague, unless you hear from fellow PC
>gamers/forums that the checkpoints are VERY reasonably/thoughtfully
>distributed.

I completely agree that you should avoid games where there are not
enough checkpoint saves (that may be the case with Borderlands 2, I
don't know) but the reason Borderlands and its sequel uses this save
method to begin with has nothing to do with 'consolities' whatsoever.
Xocyll already explained why Borderlands saves the way it does.

[PW]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:52:37 GMT, john...@frontier.com (John Lewis)

*---

Will do from now on!

Thanks John.

[Xocyll]

john...@frontier.com (John Lewis) looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Well I'm strictly a SP gamer - even when I play MMORPGs I group very,
very rarely - like once every 2-3 characters kind of rarely.

>To help avoid this trap, and if you are primarily a SP gamer, please
>do not first make the following #1 and #2 game-purchasing mistakes.
>
>#1 Mistake: Pre-ordering.. NEVER..NEVER..
>Ignore throw-away extras inserted to entice the pre-order lemmings

Got to agree with this mostly - some of the extras can be useful if they
are in-game stuff.

>#2 Mistake: Buying the game within a month after release.
>Give time to get (a) real USER-feedback (b) a first round of bug-fixes
>(c) maybe take advantage of the first round of discount sales.

I'm Guilty of buying early for some games and I have to admit the few
games that were "must buys" that I got pretty much on release date were
disappointments - a list including both Diablo3 and Borderlands2.
Guild Wars2 was also on the must buy list, but then NCSoft shut down the
still profitable City of Heroes because they lost money on bad
investments and needed to free up some cash rather than have the
investors take a hit on their dividends I guess.
So I refused to buy it and it's highly unlikely I will ever buy anything
they have their hands on ever again.

>As a SP gamer, a delay in purchase is all to your advantage (and far
>less frustration with bugs and gameplay issues) as you have no need to
>worry about MP "exhaustion", the time after game-release when many of
>the others players get bored and drift off like butterflies to the
>next new source of MP nectar. After all, if one buys lots of games on
>a continuing basis, there is only the same number of hours (maxed at
>24hrs) available in the day to play them.

Agreed for the most part, but I'll add one thing I found over the years
- if you aren't going to buy it at release make sure you don't read
anything about it (I used to end up marking a shitload of threads as
read to avoid spoilers while waiting for prices to drop and/or for the
inevitable release bugs to be patched.)

>Hmmm....on this newsgroup, maybe we could call the MP butterfly-effect
>the Rin-syndrome...... ???

Nah, Rin just prefers MP games and unfortunately what he says is true,
the multiplayer population does fall off quickly for some games so if
you want the full experience you pretty much have to buy at release.
On the flip side people fade out of single player games equally fast, it
just doesn't matter to any other players.

Too many games coming out these days and all to many of them are just
kind of forgettable - not really worth playing over and over, both SP
and MP games.

Pity is too many SP games are also MP games and their replay is damaged
by second or third rate stories because they are counting on the MP
portion to keep people playing and if you aren't into MP you just have a
second rate game.

Some MP only games though keep their populations for years and years and
years - unfortunately they are pretty much all PVP games other than the
MMORPGs (and half of those are) and that is so not my thing.

[Xocyll]

Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the

porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

It has to be noted however that it IS a multiplayer save mode that has
been shifted over into single player to address a particular problem.

It's understandable and a cheap and easy way to "fix" the problem in a
game that is both single and multiplayer anyway.

I've yet to see this kind of checkpoint save crap in a game that is
totally singleplayer, at least not in a game that originated on PC.

[Xocyll]

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn

spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Yeah Bl2 is more polished, and I am definitely missing the superior
grenades from BL2 (homing, Area denial,) but the bottom line for a game
is fun, and Bl one is substantially more fun.

I did find that quite a lot time in BL2 ammo, cash etc didn't get picked
up automatically.


I wish they'd kept the gameplay of BL1 (and the basic storyline and item
generating code) while doing the graphic upgrades and polish and new
item ideas.

Bl2 is a well polished turd compared to the uncut diamond of BL1.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:52:37 GMT, john...@frontier.com (John Lewis)

More drug induced delirium John?

It's always great to hear opinions about MP gaming from someone who
doesn't even play them. At least its easy to recognize right off the
bat what that opinion is worth.

[Mike S.]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:34:21 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Bl2 is a well polished turd compared to the uncut diamond of BL1.
>
>Xocyll

A well polished turd *is still a turd*. Do you really mean to be this
harsh on Borderlands 2? I know you don't like it as much as the first,
but I didn't think you thought the game was a piece of poo. Shiny or
otherwise. ;)

[Xocyll]

Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the

porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Actually yeah I do.

It's absolutely full of mistakes and logic errors.
The new item generation routines mean that 99% (or more) of the loot you
get will be absolute garbage.
Zero thought, zero checks to make sure rational mods end up on weapons.
So you get sniper rifles with low accuracy that only fire in bursts,
shotguns that use multiple shells per shot and have _tiny_ magazines so
you get only 1 or 2 shots then spend ages reloading.
Weapons that use multiple rounds per shot but do not display that fact
(if it says it uses 2, it does, if a shotgun doesn't say it uses
multiple shells - it uses 4 and is GUARANTEED to have a magazine size
that's a multiple of 4, minus 1.)

Who would build a gun that used 4 bullets per shot and had a 7 round
magazine?
A crazy moron that's who and that's apparently who runs all these
interplanetary weapons corporations now according to the new story
writers.


Take the new retarded Clap-trap for instance - this is just 5 years
after the robo-apocalypse where the clap-traps turned on humanity,
killing people and then using their bodies as puppets and playthings.

Either humanity found a way to cure them and make sure nothing like that
could ever happen again, in which case there would be loads of
clap-traps around like in the first game, or they never found a way to
do that in which case that clap-trap would have been mercilessly
destroyed the picosecond he hit sanctuary and it would have been done in
self defense since presumably he could build more of himself and start
the apocalypse again.

There'd be lots or none, not one single survivor that everyone would
just shrug and allow to hang around.

If not then, as soon as he started yelling and singing so loud that he
could be heard all over town, 24 hours a day, he would have been blown
to scrap.

His "importance" for the overly contrived plot wasn't revealed until
much, much later.

"Vault Hunter" stopped meaning treasure seeker and instead apparently
means "Super Hero" now.

And really, what heavily armed, merciless killer "vault Hunter" is going
to put up with being called minion and ordered around by that retarded
pile of bolts for longer than it takes to aim and fire? [Or maybe you'd
wait until he got you off the glacier, but the second you were off,
*BANG* scrap parts all over the boat.]

Despite having _stolen_ a major interplanetary corporation and being
richer than Croesus, neither Handsome Jack nor his daughter (who all his
plans hinge upon) are in the New-U system, yet you, the newly arrived
vault hunter, are.
Ditto for Roland, one of the original Vault Hunters from BL1 who WAS in
it then, but mysteriously isn't now despite there being a New-U station
in the rebel town he runs.

Everyone who should respawn just like you doesn't because the story
depends on them being permanently dead, even though it makes no sense at
all for that to happen.

Hey the mystery voice lady just fucked us and dropped the shield that
keeps our town safe, then bombarded us with rocks, destroying buildings
and killing people - of course we'll just believe her when she says
she's on our side later, sure we will.

The whole story feels like it was written for adolescent stoners BY
adolescent stoners and has all the logic, and continuity that you'd
expect from that source. People for whom rational thought is something
they can't even spell, much less do.

Christ it made Beavis and Butthead sound like Shakespeare in comparison.

It's a worse sequel than Highlander2.
[I actually watched Highlander 2 a few days back so I am perfectly aware
of how horrible a travesty it was.]
Borderlands2 is worse, it's so stupid it insults your intelligence.

Worse yet, it removed the only thing that makes games like this worth
playing - the loot, since 99.9% of the loot is garbage that's not even
worth picking up and selling.

It's a steaming cowpie, lacquered and buffed to a mirror shine.

[Mike S.]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:08:29 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>It's a steaming cowpie, lacquered and buffed to a mirror shine.
>
>Xocyll

Heh, ok :)

I really liked the first game, one of the few action games I can say
that about. I hope I disagree with your points when I eventually get
it.

Your comments about the loot system are worrisome. In these kinds of
games, a broken loot system is a broken game.

[Xocyll]

Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:08:29 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>It's a steaming cowpie, lacquered and buffed to a mirror shine.
>>
>>Xocyll
>
>Heh, ok :)
>
>I really liked the first game, one of the few action games I can say
>that about. I hope I disagree with your points when I eventually get
>it.

The first Borderlands rocks!

>Your comments about the loot system are worrisome. In these kinds of
>games, a broken loot system is a broken game.

That's exactly my point.

In Borderlands you are pretty much guaranteed to get some damn nice
weapons and some uniques.
In Bl2 almost all of what you will get will be crap and you're lucky if
you get something half-decent.

You had a fair bit of choice in shields and COMs and weapons, all of
which were usually at minimum decent and at maximum awesomeness
incarnate.

Hell my Siren, currently in playthrough 2 is currently using a damn nice
SMG - 126 damage I think, large amount of recoil reduction rendering it
VERY accurate and it has an insanely high rate of fire.
Her other 3 weapons are a Hellfire SMG (not great damage, but then it's
all about the fire) a Volcano Sniper Rifle and an Equalizer revolver
(has ammo regen, and while this one is not the highest damage of the
equalizers I've found, it is scoped and has the blast modifier so it
does explosive damage - only a 2 shot magazine though.

I've got about 25 more unique weapons in my bank vault over in the
underdome DLC.

In an entire playthrough of BL2, I found 1 unique and it was pretty
crappy and the only eridian weapon I ever got was the one Doc Zed gives
you at the end of that one quest.

And speaking of gaping logic holes - he sends you on that quest because
he's seeing these mystery wounds on bandits and such and has no idea
what could be causing them.
Then once you kill Doc Mercy and get his blaster and do the kill mission
Doc Zed now seems to know everything there is to know about eridium
weapons. The writers used it as a tutorial teaching moment, forgetting
that they had just told you he didn't know anything about this stuff at
the start of the mission.

The choices I get for weapons and shield and COM run the gamut from
decent to Abysmal not decent to Awesome, and of course it doesn't help
that the removed AMMO regen from 3/4 classes COMs - only the gunzerker
gets ammo regen in BL2.

It's a bad combo - most weapons are really cruddy and there's no chance
to get an ammo regen mod which could at least help compensate for low
damage and/or highly inaccurate weapons.

It's like Borderlands and Borderlands2 were made by completely different
groups of developers, and the ones who made BL2 never, played, saw or
read a review of BL in their lives, much less actually worked on it.

The polish they put on it, put on the actual gameplay and such of the
original games with new area to fight in would have been an awesome
game.

Instead we got a third rate console story, that really makes no sense
and the world has been altered in so many ways it's almost
unrecognizable - which is probably why they shoehorned in characters
from the original game.

See you're still on Pandora, you can tell because these characters from
the original game are here even though _everything_ else has changed,
all the good weapons, shields and COMs have vanished from the world as
have all Eridani weapons (replaced by those new ultra-ultra rare eridium
weapons.)

The removal of all that stuff could have worked out, IF they hadn't used
any characters from the first game and set the game a minimum of 50
years after the first game (100 would probably be better.) That would
be long enough for all those awesome weapons and such to wear out, be
lost, be rounded up by the authorities and so on - 5 years just ain't
enough time though so having all that stuff missing and replaced by
thousands and thousands of items that no one would want makes no sense
at all.
it's be kind like every car in the United States going missing over a 5
year period and being replaced with Yugos and Trabants.

[Trimble]

You may be interested to *Google "Borderlands 3"
its on its way . Tho V. early days.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse(*Other Search Engines ARE Available)

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of

the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>You may be interested to *Google "Borderlands 3"
>its on its way . Tho V. early days.

I shudder to think how bad that could end up being if they continue with
the trends they started in BL2.

Mind you if they go back to the BL1 way of things and get a writing team
that doesn't consist of preteen stoners, crack monkeys and insane street
people (as in the ones that have lived on the street for a decade or
more and talk to invisible people all the time,) then they might put out
a good game indeed.

They just need to remember a few cardinal rules;
1. It's a loot game - have good loot
2. make that good loot actually available
3. don't have a "story" that even a horrible, 72nd rate Hollywood
director would dismiss as stupid and implausible.
4. Make it fun, then think about ways to up the difficulty not the other
way around - chances are whichever comes second won't get completely
finished - if it even gets started.
5. make it playable in short sessions - as PW's comments have shown, not
having the time to reach a far off save point and having to repeat stuff
over and over just because you can't devote 2 or more hours at that
moment can be very frustrating. Remember Devs, your main audience is
not teens and preteens who have no job or tasks that have to be done.
5b using long travel times through lots of enemies is NOT the way to up
the difficulty - that doesn't make it particularly difficult, only
tedious and that in cause you have forgotten is the OPPOSITE of what
people want in a game.

Possible 6, have more than 2 difficulty levels - follow in Diablo3's
footsteps and go for four - that's all the difficulty you'll ever need.

Always pissed me off that Borderlands only had 2 runthroughs when
Diablo2, which came out years before, had 3.
A third playthrough would have made it worth farming Crawmerax for pearl
weapons, since you could then actually use them against something.
Not much point in hitting max level, then farming the ultra end boss to
get uber weapons that you can really only use to farm the ultra end boss
- kinda defeats the purpose of loot.

Here's hoping they turn back from the abyss.

[Trimble]

Yes I agree with all that.

I've been playing both Borderlands.
I'm just coming to BL 1st one end.

Its become a dreary long dragged out single Mission corridor shooter
+ find switches.
No sign now of the quirky characters , no Psycos or even Mad wildlife
Big Bugs or Birds or Scrags even .
Just relentless humourless rush around with 'Marine' type opposition

I'm assuming there will be a BIG (very) Boss to finish .
What storyline it had has been twisted & muddled around to
next to nothing.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Has There EVER Been an Action Game With A Decent Ending ?)

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Yes I agree with all that.
>
>I've been playing both Borderlands.
>I'm just coming to BL 1st one end.
>
>Its become a dreary long dragged out single Mission corridor shooter
>+ find switches.

You in the final run on the snow levels fighting soldier types and
aliens or farther back?

>No sign now of the quirky characters , no Psycos or even Mad wildlife
>Big Bugs or Birds or Scrags even .

Well the thing is those are low level enemies that generally have zero
tactics so they are really no challenge at all once you have decent
weapons.

They have to change up the enemy types as you progress since in BL 1 you
actually get decent weapons, and once you have em those early enemies
are about as dangerous as geriatric hamsters.

>Just relentless humourless rush around with 'Marine' type opposition

Well the original game wasn't supposed to be that humorous, the humor
almost seemed to be accidental, which is why it worked - it wasn't
trying to be funny, it just was.
That's where BL2 fell down, they tried desperately to be funny all the
time but had exactly zero talent writing the funny stuff.

It's a loot game - you kill things for loot, you do missions for loot
and your whole motivation for being on the planet is, you guessed it, to
get lots of ultra rare, ultra valuable loot from the vault and become so
rich Bill Gates is a broke, homeless vagrant by comparison.

>I'm assuming there will be a BIG (very) Boss to finish .
>What storyline it had has been twisted & muddled around to
>next to nothing.

Well the whole storyline can be summed up with one line:
You're a treasure hunter seeking the fabled vault so you can open it and
gain untold riches.

It's a loot game, it doesn't really _need_ a story as such.
You want to become richer than rich and you're fighting your way across
the planet to reach the vault - doing missions for people in exchange
for information or items that will help you get there.

It doesn't actually *need* any more story than that and it sure as hell
didn't need the ultra lame, phones you every 5 minutes to subject you to
taunts a retarded 3 year old would reject as too stupid, named
antagonist they put in Bl2.

Maybe people who have only played console games would find Jack
intimidating or clever, but compared to SHODAN, he's not even in the
same Galaxy, much less being close to "her" caliber.

I don't know about you but after the first or second time Jack called to
taunt, I'd block him so he couldn't call anymore.
This technology exists NOW, it sure as hell would exist in the future
too.

I can't imagine anyone but a kid wouldn't know that and would think it
was somehow logical that you'd put up with him calling and insulting
you.

Now SHODAN couldn't have been blocked because she ran the station and
used the public address system - although I think maybe you could shoot
out speakers and terminals to shut her up - but she'd just crank the
volume on the ones you hadn't reached yet and still taunt you.
She actually was clever and intimidating and actually launched surprise
attacks when you got careless.

Thus my "written by adolescent stoners FOR adolescent stoners" comment
before. Jack is just lame as an enemy.
He's about as scary as Justin Bieber and I'm pretty sure 8 year old
girls can beat up Bieber.

[JAB]

On 27/01/2013 00:36, Xocyll wrote:
> "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
> the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>> You may be interested to *Google "Borderlands 3"
>> its on its way . Tho V. early days.
>
> I shudder to think how bad that could end up being if they continue with
> the trends they started in BL2.
>

Well you only have to take a look at the evolution of Call of Duty to
see that things can only get better with big franchises - well better
for the shareholders that is!

Thankfully there's no connection between Gearbox and one that thought it
was a good idea to change the direction*, only slightly mind you, of the
Brother In Arms series with Brothers In Arms: Furious 4 ...

* - even they eventually realised this was bad idea.

[Mike S.]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:36:57 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>I shudder to think how bad that could end up being if they continue with
>the trends they started in BL2.

I can live with a juvenile story as I am not really playing
Borderlands for the storyline anyway. But a broken loot system and a
broken save system is too much for me.

And you know something? I wouldn't notice these two flaws right away I
don't think. Definitely not the broken loot system at least. Shiny on
the outside with a shitty center may be a really good description
after all if I end up agreeing with you on this.

[Xocyll]

JAB <nowa...@feckoff.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the

This is the kind of thing that gives me hope.
They can learn, they can turn back from the abyss and a future
Borderlands3 could be an awesome game if they do.

Or they can stay the course and put out a steaming pile with no
redeeming value whatsoever.

They're kinda doing the Hollywood thing here (and TV industry in
general.)
Hey we made X, it's pretty popular, so in the sequel (or season 2) lets
change most of what made it great in the first place.
How many movie franchises died because of this I wonder?
How many TV series had a season 2 that didn't ever leave you thinking
"that was awesome" but rather WTF!?
The TV series that always springs to mind thinking of this is Space:
1999 which had a first season that took things seriously, used science,
etc (ok very 1970s and quite silly to us now), and a second season that
did away with all science and introduced a shape changing alien - cast
changes and a uniform change didn't help either (castaways on a rogue
moon are going to waste time and resources designing and making an
entirely new uniform for everyone on the base? I think not.) Needless
to say, there was no season 3 because they had removed everything that
made the original popular in the first place.

For games, you *need* to keep the core of what made the game great, not
try and copy whatever game is hottest right now, when it's not even the
same kind of game. You can't just bolt on random features in place of
core elements and expect the game to work.

Too many non-gamers making design decisions in the game industry
methinks.
There should be a rule; in order to make any design decision about a
game sequel, you *must* have played the game it's a sequel to and you
*must* understand why it became a Game of the Year. If neither of those
is true you have no business whatsoever making design decisions about a
sequel.

[Xocyll]

Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the

porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Like Diablo3 it's not a bad game, but a bad sequel.

Diablo3 feels like a completely unrelated game with some Diablo
references bolted on - remove the references so you aren't comparing it
to the previous games and it's not bad.

The same would be true of Borderlands2;
completely different classes,
completely different skill system,
completely different loot system (that frankly sucks),
completely different core gameplay (you're not a treasure seeker, you're
a super hero out to save the planet from an evil dictator),
an antagonist that taunts you throughout the game but is so inept he
can't manage to kill you despite knowing where you are at all times,
with some characters from Borderlands thrown in to make it seem like
it's actually related in some way.
Change out those characters so there's no comparisons being made with
Borderlands and it wouldn't be as bad.

It would never be a GOTY but it wouldn't be as lame if it wasn't trying
to be the sequel to a GOTY.

To make a car analogy - the original Borderlands was a Corvette (or
Trans Am or such) and the sequel _appears_ to be a Ferrari, but turns
out to be a Volkswagen Beetle with a kit car shell.
It *looks* better at first glance, but it's got the performance,
handling, etc of a non sports car, much less a high end sports car.)

That doesn't make the Beetle a bad car, when it's not pretending to be
something it's not.

It's like Highlander2, what it does isn't bad taken on it's own, and it
would have made an ok generic sci-fi movie if you remove all the
Highlander references (I have seen worse.)
But trying to fit that stuff into an existing mythos while contradicting
half the stuff from the first movie made it an absolutely *horrible*
sequel and since it was trying to be a Highlander movie it made it a
piss poor movie as well.
About the only thing they could have done to make it worse would have
been to make it a musical as well. (Can you imagine that?) Of course
that might have made it campy enough to have some redeeming value.

[John Lewis]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:19:36 -0500, Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:36:57 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I shudder to think how bad that could end up being if they continue with
>>the trends they started in BL2.
>
>I can live with a juvenile story as I am not really playing
>Borderlands for the storyline anyway. But a broken loot system and a
>broken save system is too much for me.
>

I have just started BL2 and the save system does not appear as broken
as suggested here IF YOU ACCEPT MOST OF THE SIDE QUESTS.
To pick up good weapons or loot, you must take side quests. Notice
those Save-CAMERAS with antennas at the entry, exit, and scattered
through the quests. Pretty good as save-points,,,,especially if you
find a great weapon or valuable loot after a save-point, and really
want to keep it (say, before entering a conflict where death might be
the result) - just back up to the nearest save-camera and it will
obligingly snapshot again!! Many games with save-points will never
update a previous save-point (Far Cry 1, I think of thee). This camera
paradigm is not at all as good as save-anywhere, but sure improves on
previous save-point implementations. The game also has dynamic
save-points without camera, they seem to occur only after WINNING an
encounter.

If you endeavor to run through the main story-path without bothering
to acquire decent weapons, you WILL get burned. This game is really
an ACTION-RPG, where both the action and looting - particularly
weapon-looting is very important.

Anyway, getting to Flynt and polishing him off (and Boom-Bewn) is not
too difficult at all, with the right tactics and weapons (and they do
not need to be overwhelmingly powerful either) . The save-camera
before the Flynt encounter is very convenient and it updates every
time you pass it, so if you don't have the right weapons or ammo and
get killed, when you get revived just hunt around for them (or
purchase them) either before or after the camera point ( but before
taking on Flynt) and then pass the save-camera again. When you die,
you will pay the usual revival penalty but you will still have all
weapons with some having been given extra ammo. FYI, I am not a great
action-game player, my reactions are probably too slow and I don't use
a fancy PC mouse. However, BL2 seems to have plenty of alternate
tactical flexibility when dealing with bosses.

John Lewis

[John Lewis]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:22:12 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

You seem very sad and somewhat angry. Hopefully, you did not pay MSRP
for the game.

John Lewis

[Trimble]

We don't need to deliberately run back to a Save Point Marker to update.
If you get killed & New-U'd that's exactly what the game does
automatically.
It takes your Hero's current state & inventory back most recent point.

@Must have Sniper Rifle.@
I note that many not sniper weapons will work well as such..
...long distance accurate shooting....particularly later in the game when we
have
gained better less shake stability.

IMO Rocket Launchers are next to useless.
@@@mouse@@@

[John Lewis]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:39:07 -0000, "Trimble" <no-...@never.spam>
wrote:

>We don't need to deliberately run back to a Save Point Marker to update.
>If you get killed & New-U'd that's exactly what the game does
>automatically.
>It takes your Hero's current state & inventory back most recent point.

Thanks. Indeed, maybe. Need to experimentally check on some of that,
particularly with depleted ammo.

>
>@Must have Sniper Rifle.@

or equivalent. A most useful accessory.

John Lewis

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

That was almost true in the first game, but god they're inaccurate in
Bl2. Who would make a heavy anti-armor type weapon that only has a 25%
chance to hit a tank at 100 feet?

I was shooting at a turret I think from about 150 feet - it took over a
dozen tries before one rocket actually hit and destroyed the turret.

They went pretty much _anywhere_ except where the crosshairs were - what
exactly is the point of putting a scope with crosshairs on something
like that?

[Xocyll]

john...@frontier.com (John Lewis) looked up from reading the entrails

I bought it retail pretty much the day it was released.
It was a major disappointment, as was Diablo3 before it.

[Xocyll]

john...@frontier.com (John Lewis) looked up from reading the entrails

of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:19:36 -0500, Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:36:57 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I shudder to think how bad that could end up being if they continue with
>>>the trends they started in BL2.
>>
>>I can live with a juvenile story as I am not really playing
>>Borderlands for the storyline anyway. But a broken loot system and a
>>broken save system is too much for me.
>>
>
>I have just started BL2 and the save system does not appear as broken
>as suggested here IF YOU ACCEPT MOST OF THE SIDE QUESTS.

The quests and save system are completely unrelated.

>To pick up good weapons or loot, you must take side quests.

True, but only because the loot system is so incredibly
broken-by-design.

I will also note that it's worth exploring areas you don't necessarily
_need_ to go to, since there are often chests hidden in out of the way
spots as well as the occasional hidden quest objective.
Note exploration can also be quite dangerous at times since there may be
very tough critters out there you aren't really equipped to deal with.
But since death is temporary and you lose nothing but a percentage of
your cash (and a little time) there's no real reason not to.

>Notice
>those Save-CAMERAS with antennas at the entry, exit, and scattered
>through the quests. Pretty good as save-points,,,,especially if you
>find a great weapon or valuable loot after a save-point, and really
>want to keep it (say, before entering a conflict where death might be
>the result)

Death doesn't reload a save game, only quitting out and loading a save
game does that and it saves at the moment you quit as well.
Death merely respawns you (basically a clone) at the last temporary save
point with all the gear you had when you died and, usually, a full load
of ammo.

The only way to lose something you found would be to have the game crash
before you had a chance to reach a save point or save&quit.

I'll note that if you pull the read-only save file trick to explore
alternative rewards (you're given a choice of rewards but you can't see
the stats on them and/or the rewards are from two different people (like
the bullymong fur quest early on - shotgun from claptrap or sniper rifle
from hammerlock)) you have to not only quit out after a reward, but also
reselect the character to get it to reload the save file, if you just
quit and reload you will still have the item in your inventory and the
quest marked as done, since it's reloading the game from ram not from
disk.

>- just back up to the nearest save-camera and it will
>obligingly snapshot again!! Many games with save-points will never
>update a previous save-point (Far Cry 1, I think of thee). This camera
>paradigm is not at all as good as save-anywhere, but sure improves on
>previous save-point implementations. The game also has dynamic
>save-points without camera, they seem to occur only after WINNING an
>encounter.

I mentioned that before - any time you complete a quest objective it
will save the state of everything - that doesn't have to be killing
something but does include killing quest objective critters.

>If you endeavor to run through the main story-path without bothering
>to acquire decent weapons, you WILL get burned. This game is really
>an ACTION-RPG, where both the action and looting - particularly
>weapon-looting is very important.
>
>Anyway, getting to Flynt and polishing him off (and Boom-Bewn) is not
>too difficult at all, with the right tactics and weapons (and they do
>not need to be overwhelmingly powerful either) . The save-camera
>before the Flynt encounter is very convenient and it updates every
>time you pass it, so if you don't have the right weapons or ammo and
>get killed, when you get revived just hunt around for them (or
>purchase them) either before or after the camera point ( but before
>taking on Flynt) and then pass the save-camera again. When you die,
>you will pay the usual revival penalty but you will still have all
>weapons with some having been given extra ammo. FYI, I am not a great
>action-game player, my reactions are probably too slow and I don't use
>a fancy PC mouse. However, BL2 seems to have plenty of alternate
>tactical flexibility when dealing with bosses.

Well really what it comes down to is killing them, either by shooting
them or damaging them with barrels. It's not really that flexible.

It's not like you can blow out the supports to a crane and drop it on a
boss, or cause a rockslide or drop them in an acid bath or whatever - it
really does come down to shooting them with a weapon 99% of the time.\

[Tim O]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:36:23 GMT, john...@frontier.com (John Lewis)
wrote:

> Notice those Save-CAMERAS with antennas at the entry, exit, and
>scattered through the quests. Pretty good as save-points,,,,especially
>if you find a great weapon or valuable loot after a save-point, and
>really want to keep it (say, before entering a conflict where death
>might be the result) - just back up to the nearest save-camera and it
>will obligingly snapshot again!!

You don't need to do that. You won't lose weapons/items you've picked
up when you die regardless of your save status, just cash for the
respawn fee.

If you die and don't exit the game, you will be put back to the save
point with the enemies you've killed still dead (except for the "wave"
style bonus missions).

If you exit the game and come back, you will be at the entry of the
world with everything respawned... The sole use of the in-game save
points is not doing the whole level over again, you won't lose
inventory regardless.

I think PW's problems have overly convoluted peoples perception of the
save system. I'm not sure what he was doing, but he was somehow making
it harder on himself than it needed to be. ;-)

[Trimble]

I just finished Borderlands 1st one.
Its very, very rare for me to complete a
game in all my many years of many games.

I have really enjoyed the game but the looooong dragged out ending
sections hurrying on & on through predictable quest points
is poor & dull .
The very last 2 , 3 sections perk up a bit with some new monsters.
But who is this 'Steele' ? popping up right at the end of the game
& quickly gone again.
'They ' throw the story away into muddled vague fragment's.
Isn't the Vault supposed to contain some Treasurer or power ?

The end level Boss is BIG & TOUGH & BORING
I struggled against it for 1/2 hour & then with little sense of loss
of gameplay turned on a trainer for Max Health & Ammo.

I've just had more fun in the 1st section of Playthough 2 .

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Hate Boss Battles)

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>I just finished Borderlands 1st one.
>Its very, very rare for me to complete a
>game in all my many years of many games.
>
>I have really enjoyed the game but the looooong dragged out ending
>sections hurrying on & on through predictable quest points
>is poor & dull .
>The very last 2 , 3 sections perk up a bit with some new monsters.
>But who is this 'Steele' ? popping up right at the end of the game
>& quickly gone again.

She's the Atlas Corporation local commander.
She's the one that broadcasts the claim on all alien tech and artifacts
when you retrieve that first piece from Sledge in the mine. So she
actually "pops up" fairly early on, you just don't see her in person you
just hear her broadcasts.

All those commando guys? She's their boss.

>'They ' throw the story away into muddled vague fragment's.
>Isn't the Vault supposed to contain some Treasurer or power ?

The Lost whatever is always supposed to be filled with untold riches in
the stories about it, be it a lost island, lost mine, lost city, or lost
alien vault. And since discovered alien tech artifacts is what made the
Atlas corp so rich, everyone assumes an alien vault will contain stuff
that's insanely valuable.

Not all locked containers are treasure chests or bank vaults, some are
prison cells and thus the changeup at the end of BL1.

>The end level Boss is BIG & TOUGH & BORING
>I struggled against it for 1/2 hour & then with little sense of loss
>of gameplay turned on a trainer for Max Health & Ammo.

You give up too fast. It's not too hard but it can burn through the
ammo for several weapons if you don't have any kind of ammo regen.
1. Get behind a pillar
2. duck out and shoot the "eye", ducking back when it does it's eye beam
attack
3. when it sprouts the waving tentacles, shoot them at the midpoint
(there a purple bit there) and you'll kill the tentacle.
Repeat step 2 and 3 until dead.

>I've just had more fun in the 1st section of Playthough 2 .
>(\__/)
>(='.'=)
>(")_(") mouse (Hate Boss Battles)

I hear that. At least it wasn't one of those over contrived bosses you
find in some games.
You know the type - you need a special weapon and you can only hurt them
by shooting them in a special spot that can only be damaged at certain
times.

[Trimble]

Thanks Xocyll for story clarification.
Steele looks to be quite a Dish.

I cheated only twice in Borderlands - to get max ammo & health-
to defeat Boss Sledge - I just could not 'do' him
was right out of cash & ammo after many New-U's trying.
Couldn't face leaving his very big long complex
to return later.
I felt miserable at that cheat that I had spoilt my game..
I shall go back & do it proper,,,now I have a Level 37 Hero (Lol !)

But I felt no qualms & sense of loss at getting that last BIG BOSS out the
way.
Poor great Lump of a thing defending its territory against murderous greedy
opportunists.

IMO it would have been more fun if the game had turned on us at
the Vault and given us control of the Final Boss to shoot / destroy
the vault Hunters, & Corporation people.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Oh Well On To The Dlc's & B2)

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Thanks Xocyll for story clarification.
>Steele looks to be quite a Dish.
>
>I cheated only twice in Borderlands - to get max ammo & health-
>to defeat Boss Sledge - I just could not 'do' him
>was right out of cash & ammo after many New-U's trying.
>Couldn't face leaving his very big long complex
>to return later.
>I felt miserable at that cheat that I had spoilt my game..
>I shall go back & do it proper,,,now I have a Level 37 Hero (Lol !)

You do what you have to, I guess it all depends on which class you're
playing and how lucky (or unlucky) you've been with drops to that point.
He does do a shitload of damage with that shotgun and with all the other
guys who pop in to join the fight if it take more than a short time, it
is as Angel put it, your first *real* challenge.
If you can't take the damage from his gun you can duck in and out of the
area just before it (the one with the doors opening either side), just
open door, step out, shoot him a couple times (depending on weapon) step
back in, door closes, wash, rinse, repeat.
You *will* burn though a lot of ammo this way, but since there's an ammo
vendor just back down the hall...

>But I felt no qualms & sense of loss at getting that last BIG BOSS out the
>way.
>Poor great Lump of a thing defending its territory against murderous greedy
>opportunists.

Well that just it, we don't know that it was _defending_ anything.
The "vault" seems to be a gateway, whether it be to another
dimension/reality or some kind of prison.
The fact that the first thing it did upon the opening was kill and eat
the person who opened it and had her back turned to it argues against it
being a poor anything.

So either it's an invader from the back of beyond or some kind of very
dangerous prisoner of the Eridani, or it's a watchdog guarding the
treasure.
The borderlands2 story seems to indicate it was #3 and the vault is
where all the eridium that Jack is mining came from, but the story is so
full of logic holes and such we can't really be sure.
[Maybe opening the vault allows a dimensional extrusion that transmutes
other elements into eridium.]

At the time I just thought of it as one of the first 2, invader or
dangerous thing locked away.

Doesn't really matter since it's implacably hostile.

>IMO it would have been more fun if the game had turned on us at
>the Vault and given us control of the Final Boss to shoot / destroy
>the vault Hunters, & Corporation people.

That would have really broken the brains of the console types (who
apparently couldn't deal with the fact that they spent the game looking
for a treasure vault but found something else (and couldn't deal with no
main antagonist etc - thus all the retarded changes that came to BL2).)

>(\__/)
>(='.'=)
>(")_(") mouse (Oh Well On To The Dlc's & B2)

Zombie Island rocks as does the Secret armory, both involve lots of
travel time though, since there are no fast travel points within any of
the DLCs - when you've traveled a long way and now have to travel back
you might just want to quit&save and reload to get back to town fast.

DLC 4 is not horrible, but just not as good as those 2.

You'll note a major logic issue with DLC 4 - you get to see Steele again
as a robotically animated corpse, gaping abdominal wound and all.
Except of course that the vault critter ATE her and was then sealed back
in the vault (whether container or gateway) so there was no corpse to
animate.

I'm guessing the people who did DLC 4 didn't work on the main game and
had never played it either so didn't know the details just that she was
a named opponent, now dead, that they could bring back for a
robo-encore.

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Poor great Lump of a thing defending its territory against murderous greedy
>opportunists.

I was giving this a bit more thought and it occurred to me that

The "vault" could be a gateway to another reality (whether dimension,
universe, whatever) where the laws of physics are quite different.

Different physical laws means that elements that could not exist in our
reality, could exist there - isotopes of elements that are formed here
but are not stable and decay instantly or are so unlikely they can't
form at all.

So if the "vault" allows the other reality to bleed through into our it
could allow the formation of eridium deposits, whatever it is that
eridium really is.

The vault critter could be one of several things.
A ravening beast attracted by "tasty smells" coming through the gateway.

A guardian of sorts made to protect their side from an "alien invasion."

A scientist or soldier or such that's investigating this wierd phenomena
- after all if their side is bleeding into ours, the opposite is
probably also true and it could be happening in the middle of one of
their "cities." In which case they could assume they are under attack.

As for their "instant reaction" in this last case it might not be
instant at all - time may run at a completely different rate over there
and the vault critter could be a soldier being sent though to
investigate this anomaly a few hours after it opened on their side.
(Or their equivalent of a FEMA representative showing up 5+ days later.)

The 200 years between possible gate openings on our side might just be a
few days on their side, so their investigators (or predators attracted
to the first one) could still be there when it reopens.
Or it could be 10000 years on their side and what pops through is random
wildlife or fast responders of some kind. We just can't know.

In time they may figure out how to open a gate of their own and start
poking through into our reality causing who knows how much devastation.
It could be that the "vault" gateway is a nice stable hole on our side
and the equivalent of a volcano on their side, and if they open one they
get the stable side.
[Thinking of a Stargate Atlantis episode when they were dealing with an
exotic particle problem by shunting them into another dimension and
causing massive devastation to that other dimension. If I remember
correctly the effect on the other side there was potentially universe
destroying.]


I wonder if Borderlands3 (or 4 or whatever) could go all Half-Life Xen
on us and have us cross to their side to retrieve some stolen
item/rescue some kidnapped person/plant a bomb to shut down their gate
generator/whatever.
Not very treasure huntery behavior, but perfectly in keeping with the
super hero aspect they bolted onto BL2.

Then again, who knows what treasure you could bring back from another
reality - guaranteed to be ultra rare if not one-of-a-kind certainly.

Hell the vault critter could be something else entirely, something that
lives in the space between realities. What we saw could have been a
miniscule portion of the whole creature - it "sticking a finger in the
hole" in effect.

In this sort of thing perhaps we'd be contacted by the other side
through a small hole looking for help closing a much larger gate they
opened that let the critter get more of itself through, more than they
could deal with. The other side might be weaponless pacifists after all
having nothing but scientific devices to try and get the critter pushed
back.

So many possibilities.

[Trimble]

<<<"Hell the vault critter could be something else entirely, something that
lives in the space between realities. What we saw could have been a
miniscule portion of the whole creature - it "sticking a finger in the
hole" in effect.">>>>

Hmmm... lots of possibilities for B3.

<<<"Doesn't really matter since it's implacably hostile.">>>

Hmmm I don't know.
I couldn't help but feel sorry for it .
If a great gaggle of shooting , blasting noisy creatures turned up
at my front door disturbing my 200 years of peaceful slumber
I would get very hostile.

One thing when playing that bit with cheats on I could wander around
& look at leisure .
Big Mass Monster had a definite sad look in its eye.
It was clearly in need of a good meal.
Give it a cute name, sing gentle Lullaby, toss it biscuit's,
give it a soft squeaky toy
it might turn out quite docile & friendly.
We never get to do things like that in action games ? (sic)

ANY ways I'm off to check out B1's "Crazy Earls Scrapyard"
A lot of missions came from there but there is a whole
large section of his map that was never used.
I shall go see what is there.
I have all the side missions done (I think).

The Game at completion offers "Playthough 1" or Playthough 2"
1 is presumably to finish any side quests ...I have done them all.
It offers continuation in the Mission Log to General Knoxx DLC entry point.

I've tried 1st bits Claptraps Robot Rev. ...which is how my Hero is Level 37
at main game end.
Really thought Claptrap DLC is poor.

But from what I've picked up Gen. Knoxx is OK.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (We Are Level 19 In B2)

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

><<<"Hell the vault critter could be something else entirely, something that
>lives in the space between realities. What we saw could have been a
>miniscule portion of the whole creature - it "sticking a finger in the
>hole" in effect.">>>>
>
>Hmmm... lots of possibilities for B3.
>
><<<"Doesn't really matter since it's implacably hostile.">>>
>
>Hmmm I don't know.
>I couldn't help but feel sorry for it .
>If a great gaggle of shooting , blasting noisy creatures turned up
>at my front door disturbing my 200 years of peaceful slumber

Well sound wouldn't transmit through a closed dimensional gate and more
than it would transmit through a stargate or wormhole.

The door opened and it popped out and ate the first thing it saw.

If steel had been playing rap music or something it would have been
totally justified, but she wasn't

>I would get very hostile.
>
>One thing when playing that bit with cheats on I could wander around
>& look at leisure .
>Big Mass Monster had a definite sad look in its eye.
>It was clearly in need of a good meal.
>Give it a cute name, sing gentle Lullaby, toss it biscuit's,
>give it a soft squeaky toy
>it might turn out quite docile & friendly.
>We never get to do things like that in action games ? (sic)

Hrm why don't you write to the company and maybe they'll make a Vault
Monster plushie available (or give you permission to have one made.) :)

Go well on a shelf next to a plushie Cthulhu.

>ANY ways I'm off to check out B1's "Crazy Earls Scrapyard"
>A lot of missions came from there but there is a whole
>large section of his map that was never used.
>I shall go see what is there.
>I have all the side missions done (I think).

I'm pretty sure all of his map is used.
You get sent there for several missions, and of course the claptrap
repair mission is down the left branch. Right branch has the explosives
quest.

This is exactly what I meant in the previous message about exploration.
The first time I played I never went down the left branch and thus never
discovered the claptrap and missed out on the inventory boost.

>The Game at completion offers "Playthough 1" or Playthough 2"
>1 is presumably to finish any side quests ...I have done them all.
>It offers continuation in the Mission Log to General Knoxx DLC entry point.

Well you can play the DLCs in both playthroughs, so general rule of
thumb is do everything in the main game and the DLCs you want to play in
PT1, then start the second playthrough.

One tiny caveat - once you finish the second playthrough and second play
of the good DLCs (Island and armory) you go back to PT1 Armory to fight
Crawmerax the Invincible - it's a bit easier then the one in PT2 since I
think it's fixed around level 63ish while the one in PT2 is much higher.
Doesn't make him much easier, but the little guys you also have to deal
with are easier.
You pretty much MUST have a bunch of elemental weapons to deal with the
little guys.

>I've tried 1st bits Claptraps Robot Rev. ...which is how my Hero is Level 37
>at main game end.
>Really thought Claptrap DLC is poor.

If it was the only one it would be OK, but after the Zombie Island and
Secret Armory it really came off as second rate.
I only do it for the backpack inventory upgrade and skip all the quests
available from the job board there.

>But from what I've picked up Gen. Knoxx is OK.

Knoxx is awesome, but there's a shitload of driving.

If you wish to farm for weapons once you get to the actual armory
there's a little cheat that will let you drop down a flaw in the
architecture and get to all the chests without the timer running.
Of course you either have to quit/save out or suicide-by-rocket-launcher
to the feet to kill yourself back outside so you can complete the
mission.

If there's a particular unique you have your heart set on this is
probably the way to get it- of course you do begin back in T-bone
junction when you reload after the quit/save so you have to drive all
the way there and fight Knoxx every time.

Note that if you do this you can do the cheat as often as you want when
accessing the main armory quest - but afterwards Marcus buys the place
and will let you take a second run in and doing the cheat there can be
an issue since when you come back to finish the quest the door won't
open.

[Trimble]

You certainly know Borderlands well Xocyll...thanks info.
That Gen. Knoxx trick will be useful,
I hate (am useless) at Timed Missions.

I have just looked through that left hand section of Crazy Earls Scrapyard.
All I found was that Claptrap Repair Mission ...nice as it gives me all
those
back pack upgrades.
I'm still a bit curious. All the other Claptrap Repair Missions were
found within other bigger Missions.
Perhaps this Left most bit of Crazy Earls Patch has a big mission
I'm yet to find .

Fun to see Earl's 'Best Friend' Scrappy all grown up & bouncing viciously
around.
It's those sort of jokes that make me really enjoy these games.
Having saved its ass earlier I didnt have the heart to kill.
Very silly attitude as it would re spawn again next visit.

I shall go find a good listing of all the B1 Main Missions to see if I have
indeed done them all.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse ( ...Time To Play Dishonored )

[Xocyll]

"Trimble" <no-...@never.spam> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>You certainly know Borderlands well Xocyll...thanks info.
>That Gen. Knoxx trick will be useful,
>I hate (am useless) at Timed Missions.
>
>I have just looked through that left hand section of Crazy Earls Scrapyard.
>All I found was that Claptrap Repair Mission ...nice as it gives me all
>those
>back pack upgrades.
>I'm still a bit curious. All the other Claptrap Repair Missions were
>found within other bigger Missions.
>Perhaps this Left most bit of Crazy Earls Patch has a big mission
>I'm yet to find .

Pretty damn sure that it's only the claptrap mission down that branch.
As it happens when you get the first two missions from Earl (the
explosives one and the kill some spiderants and bandits) I go down that
side to kill bandits and get the claptrap reward (and of course hit the
red chest nearby.)

>Fun to see Earl's 'Best Friend' Scrappy all grown up & bouncing viciously
>around.
>It's those sort of jokes that make me really enjoy these games.
>Having saved its ass earlier I didnt have the heart to kill.
>Very silly attitude as it would re spawn again next visit.
>
>I shall go find a good listing of all the B1 Main Missions to see if I have
>indeed done them all.

You pretty much have to do all the Main Missions path to reach the end.
There's a load of side missions you can skip of course as I always skip
all the arena stuff.

There's various wiki pages covering pretty much every detail of the
game.

[calebal...@gmail.com]

Can you help me figure out a problem i'm having?
so i got to flint but i had to go to the store so i saved and quit but now i'm locked out of the ship thingy flint is on and my echo says find flint someone help...please.

[rms]

The best solution is to stop playing borderlands! Just stop!

rms

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Mon, 30 May 2016 15:32:10 +0300, <calebal...@togmail.com> wrote:

> Can you help me figure out a problem i'm having?
> so i got to flint but i had to go to the store so i saved and quit but now i'm locked out of the ship thingy flint is on and my echo says find flint

The game does not save amidst a mission (very unfortunately).
Now you have to do the Flynt quest from start.


--
Andrew Rybenkov

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Mon, 30 May 2016 15:53:57 +0300, rms <rsqui...@mooyossmanmoo.net> wrote:

> The best solution is to stop playing borderlands! Just stop!

B2 is awesome in UVHM mode.

--
Andrew Rybenkov

[Trimble Bracegirdle]

Borderlands 2 .
Your in the last section of the games 1st main mission " Best Minion Ever"

The game has frequent temporary checkpoints where you re-spawn 'New-U'
but are lost when you exit / restart
& far less frequent main auto save points at the 'Fast Travel' stations
which are 'remembered' between games & where your Hero re-starts
when the game starts up.

The annoyance with the Captain Flint bit is that Hero has to get right past
killing Flint
AND ALL FLINTS MEN (one or two might be hiding in corners) on that boat deck
.
Only THEN can you open the door at the far end of the deck & go out onto a
ship which ends the level & gives a new full game save.

If you exit the game while on Flints ship (however near the end)
next start up game will have you way back.

(\__/)
(='.'=)

(")_(") mouse (Video WalkThu's Are Your Friend's)

[Mr Rob]

On Tue, 31 May 2016 16:38:57 +0100, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-...@never.spam> wrote:

>If you exit the game while on Flints ship (however near the end)
>next start up game will have you way back.

I actually enjoyed the battle with Flint and deliberately faced him a
number of times. If I remember rightly he drops a pistol that can have
very good stats and is a very good weapon for that early stage of the
game.

I have been fighting an urge to replay the Borderlands games just
lately. I still haven't finished any of the DLC's for Borderlands 2.
In fact I have only started one of them - the first- and haven't even
tried the others yet. If I do give in to the urge I think it will be
Borderlands 1 that gets my gaming time.

I still think of the original as the best of the series and the
pre-sequel as the 'worst' of them. Although the latter is far from a
bad game. I just think it was a game too many for the franchise and
suffered for that fact.
--
Rob

[Mike S.]

On Tue, 31 May 2016 16:38:57 +0100, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-...@never.spam> wrote:

I really hope they didn't fuck up the save system. They came very
close to doing so in the DLCs for the first game. Broken save
system=broken game. Period.

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Tue, 31 May 2016 19:29:25 +0300, Mr Rob <noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:

> I still think of the original as the best of the series and the
> pre-sequel as the 'worst' of them.

well, yes, though Captain Scarlett and Tiny Tina's Assault DLCs (and UVHM mode) turn B2
into excellent game. Both are better than any B1 addons.

--
Andrew Rybenkov

[Mr Rob]

I'll have to take your word for that.

They're going to have to really go some to beat the General Knoxx DLC
for Borderlands 1 which was a huge DLC that added many extra hours of
gaming as well as a raised level cap and new loot.

If the DLC's for Borderlands 2 can actually beat that DLC then I will
be genuinely impressed.

I didn't dislike Borderlands 2, although for a little while I did
brood on what a departure it was from the original game in terms of
looks and watered down loot. But it did grow on me and I did really
enjoy it.

But for me, Borderlands 1 really scratched that loot hunting itch and
I ended up putting over 700 hours into it. Looking for the perfect
Hellfire, Vitriolic Crux, Caustic Surkov, or Pestilent Defiler was
enormous fun. I spent countless hours farming the SpiderAnt nests
around New Haven and the halls of Crimson Fastness for the top
weapons.

Also, the different weapons manufacturers were better defined in
Borderlands 1. In BL2 I couldn't care less who made the weapons as it
didn't seem to really matter.

What I missed the most in BL2 was the farming for gear, the
identifying with key areas for gearing up (Lucky's, Capstone Mine, New
Haven, Old Haven, Earls Scrapyard, Crimson Fastness) and just
generally better defined weapons.

The vast majority of weapons in BL2 were watered down to the point of
being almost indistinguishable from each other. The same applied to
the different areas on the maps. There were none that I couldn't wait
to reach because of the prospect of good gear, like there was in BL1.

So for me, Borderlands 1 was an superb game, Borderlands 2 was a very
good game, and the pre-sequel was a good game. I don't regret buying
or playing any of them.

I wish for a Borderlands 3 and I hope that if one ever materialises
that it is closer in style and content to the original. If it isn't
though I will still buy it with great pleasure and likely enjoy it
greatly as well.

[Mr Rob]

On Tue, 31 May 2016 13:34:02 -0400, Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>I really hope they didn't fuck up the save system. They came very
>close to doing so in the DLCs for the first game. Broken save
>system=broken game. Period.

A different game I know, but I'm suffering the same frustration and
annoyance at the moment with Dead Space 3.

I hate the save system in Dead Space 3. I hate it with a passion. It
drives me nuts because you have to play great big long segments of the
game before it autosaves for you. In the original and in Deadspace 2
you could find save points (much like the typewriters in RE4) and at
least save all of your progress fairly regularly.

Not so in Dead Space 3 (which incidentally is often an extremely
enjoyable game otherwise). If you have to stop playing before an
autosave - tough luck on you. When you start the game again you are
faced with repeating the same area almost from scratch again.

I don't know if you've played Dead Space 3, but there is a section ( a
side mission that provides vital resources so missing it out is very
costly later on in the game) where you're desperately waiting for a
Tram to arrive, having restored power to the lines. As you wait for
the Tram you have to fight off waves of enemies, some that can't be
killed because they regenerate.

If you screw up you get killed before the Tram arrives and you have
start from the beginning of the enemy waves again. Even worse than
that, if you manage to hold out until the Tram arrives and get to the
next station in search of this missing character, you have to complete
the entire level there as well in order to get an autosave.

I finally managed to get on this Tram having died what seemed like a
million times. I got off at the next station and almost completed the
area when I had to stop playing. I thought that when I started again
that I would start off at the second station entrance at worst. No
chance. I was all the way back at the beginning, fighting the
regenerating enemies that can't be killed, desperately waiting for the
Tram to arrive.

I tried a couple of times and gave up out of sheer frustration.
Chances are that I will likely never play it again.

Games are not supposed to be frustrating, they're supposed to
challenging, but fun as well. I think that sometimes developers either
forget that, or don't even play their own game to see how it flows
from one part to another.

Stuff autosaves. I hate the mechanic.
--
Rob

[Andrew Rybenkov]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 00:48:46 +0300, Mr Rob <noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:

> Stuff autosaves. I hate the mechanic.

Completely agree.
BTW, there are unreachable areas in DS3 for solo players.
Anyway I enjoyed the game (that I got it at EA Humble bumble
after reading disastrous reviews), so after the end I immediately
bought the Awakening DLC for current (full) price. It prolonged the game
for another coupla hours.
It is a shame there was not DS4.

--
Andrew Rybenkov

[Anssi Saari]

Mr Rob <noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> writes:

> Stuff autosaves. I hate the mechanic.

I dunno, I don't really need a save game management mini game either. If
a game is interesting I can forget to save pretty easily and then it's
replay city if I die. Happened in Deus Ex for example especially when
trying to sneak through some area.

In BL2 specifically the problem is that the main plot missions are
pretty long. There are about 10 of those and each lasts maybe an hour
and a half, probably more on first try. While they have checkpoints if
you quit the game during the mission then you have to start over.

I guess autosaves with manual save anywhere as an option would be the
best.

[Justisaur]

Mr Rob wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2016 21:09:17 +0300, "Andrew Rybenkov"
> <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 31 May 2016 19:29:25 +0300, Mr Rob <noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I still think of the original as the best of the series and the
>>> pre-sequel as the 'worst' of them.
>>
>> well, yes, though Captain Scarlett and Tiny Tina's Assault DLCs (and UVHM mode) turn B2
>> into excellent game. Both are better than any B1 addons.
>
> I'll have to take your word for that.
>
> They're going to have to really go some to beat the General Knoxx DLC
> for Borderlands 1 which was a huge DLC that added many extra hours of
> gaming as well as a raised level cap and new loot.
>
> If the DLC's for Borderlands 2 can actually beat that DLC then I will
> be genuinely impressed.

General Knoxx was really good. It wasn't until I got that one I really
liked BL1. Tiny Tina's and Captain Scarlett both have more flavor than
General Knoxx, but for improvement of the game, I'm not sure either have
as much effect, nor are as big.

>
> I didn't dislike Borderlands 2, although for a little while I did
> brood on what a departure it was from the original game in terms of
> looks and watered down loot. But it did grow on me and I did really
> enjoy it.
>
> But for me, Borderlands 1 really scratched that loot hunting itch and
> I ended up putting over 700 hours into it. Looking for the perfect
> Hellfire, Vitriolic Crux, Caustic Surkov, or Pestilent Defiler was
> enormous fun. I spent countless hours farming the SpiderAnt nests
> around New Haven and the halls of Crimson Fastness for the top
> weapons.
>
> Also, the different weapons manufacturers were better defined in
> Borderlands 1. In BL2 I couldn't care less who made the weapons as it
> didn't seem to really matter.
>
> What I missed the most in BL2 was the farming for gear, the
> identifying with key areas for gearing up (Lucky's, Capstone Mine, New
> Haven, Old Haven, Earls Scrapyard, Crimson Fastness) and just
> generally better defined weapons.
>
> The vast majority of weapons in BL2 were watered down to the point of
> being almost indistinguishable from each other. The same applied to
> the different areas on the maps. There were none that I couldn't wait
> to reach because of the prospect of good gear, like there was in BL1.
>

The best weapons from BL2 are for the most part not random drops, you
have to kill certain bosses, finish certain missions, or get them from
certain chests. Some are very different. One of my current favorites is
the kerblaster, which is an ar that fires a rocket, that drops a
grenade, and there's a shotgun that when you reload flies off and hunts
down enemies on it's own until it's out of ammo. Unfortunately for the
most part the lower end guns are pretty indistinguishable. That and
drops rates for the good stuff is far far lower in BL2 than BL1.

The manufacturers do matter.

Jacobs you have to spam click to fire, have small cap, large damage, but
almost no elemental which makes them generally weak except for certain
ones and certain builds.

Torgue is all about "EXPLOOOOOSIONS" with slow rockets instead of
bullets. The low end ones are really weak, but the higher end ones are
very good. Certain explosion based builds will love most Torgue weapons.

Hyperion is good all around but have the reverse accuracy where it
starts off bad, and gets better, meaning they suck ammo down against
normal mobs since they miss so much to begin with, but they tend to be
top against large bosses with big crit boxes.

Maliwan is good elemental and the best of the lower rarity weapons, but
their upper end tends not to be as good as others.

Bandit has high capacity, but most are garbage otherwise, there's a few
exceptions.

Tediore made it's name on throw away garbage guns, at least they explode
when you throw them away. If you see Tediore you can bet it's going to
be crap.

- Justisaur

[Mr Rob]

On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 10:03:12 +0300, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:

>I guess autosaves with manual save anywhere as an option would be the
>best.

What I should have said is that autosaves done right are perfectly
acceptable.

What isn't acceptable is a system that frustrates and irritates to the
point that people stop playing a game entirely.

I know Dead Space 3 isn't the only culprit of this slapdash/money
grubbing approach, but it is the most recent one to irritate the hell
out of me.

--
Rob

[Mike S.]

On Tue, 31 May 2016 22:48:46 +0100, Mr Rob
<noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:

>I don't know if you've played Dead Space 3, but there is a section ( a
>side mission that provides vital resources so missing it out is very
>costly later on in the game) where you're desperately waiting for a
>Tram to arrive, having restored power to the lines. As you wait for
>the Tram you have to fight off waves of enemies, some that can't be
>killed because they regenerate.
>
>If you screw up you get killed before the Tram arrives and you have
>start from the beginning of the enemy waves again. Even worse than
>that, if you manage to hold out until the Tram arrives and get to the
>next station in search of this missing character, you have to complete
>the entire level there as well in order to get an autosave.
>
>I finally managed to get on this Tram having died what seemed like a
>million times. I got off at the next station and almost completed the
>area when I had to stop playing. I thought that when I started again
>that I would start off at the second station entrance at worst. No
>chance. I was all the way back at the beginning, fighting the
>regenerating enemies that can't be killed, desperately waiting for the
>Tram to arrive.

I haven't played it but it does sound awful. Much worse then what I
experienced in the DLCs for Borderlands but that was bad enough that
someone made a mod that put spawn points at the beginning of most maps
in the General Knoxx DLC.

I had no problems with the save system in the main game of Borderlands
(as the save checkpoints were everywhere) but when the DLCs came out,
they decided that one freaking save checkpoint was enough. It wasn't.