Re: dial-up and steam (again)
Shawk
"steamKILLER" <sayNO...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116151200.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> dial-up and steam (again)
>
> yes its again we talk about it but blame the usual pro steam
> propaganda lies for we having to again set the record clean
>
> first i want to thank EvilBill who should change his name to
> GoodBill and to Terry for defending pc games in this group
>
> now for the facts about dial-up
>
> . dial-up is not reliable to stay long hours connected
>
> . dial-up is not reliable to make big downloads
>
> . dial-up has to share the line with phone calls and the
> use of fax so again it cannot stay connected long hours
>
> . dial-up pays by the minute so the more times you connect
> and the more hours connected the more you pay
>
> . dial-up never connects at 56k that is theoretical number
> more realistic numbers are between 30k and 40k
>
> . dial-up is still the dominate way to connect to the net
> in many parts of the world
>
> . dial-up used to download 100mb takes at least 8 straight
> hours to complete making it expensive and unpractical
>
> now the facts about steam
>
> . patching hl2 is mandatory when in first install
>
> . current overall patches are much bigger than 100mb
>
> . hl2 also requires net connection for the humiliating
> ask for permission validation
>
> . hl2 requires this validation to be repeated for the same
> installation in specific intervals of time chosen by valve
>
> . yes hl2 is umproperly labeled and should have very clear
> warnings about steam in its the cover and that's why germany
> the biggest economy in the biggest market in the world and a
> country most developed in respect to protecting the consumer
> has forced valve changing the cover labelind and stop the lie
> which has deceived so many pc gamers since november 2004
>
> . making those enormous patches available in a dvd but only
> in a single issue in a single month in a single game magazine
> IS RIDICULOUS AND PROPOSTEROUS
>
> conclusions
>
> . dial-up is not suitable for steam PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION!
> . the dvd magazine with the supposed patches is WORTHLESS CRAP!
> . steam infection has no place in the healthy retail market!
>
> --
> post made in a steam-free computer
> i said "NO" to valve and steam
>
On 27th January the Painkiller patch 1.61 was released. 338MB
On 28th February patch 1.62 at 108MB
On 25th March patch 1.63 at 5.35MB
On 29th March patch 1.64 at 6.37MB
That's 457.72MB
Hell of a lot on dial up dont you think? Or of course you can get it off a
magazine - like HL2.
(BTW - reason HL2 was only released in one magazine may be because the
*whole* game was released on the DVD already patched. You just needed to
load it, sign into Steam and away you go...)
What could be simpler?
Andrew
<sh...@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:
>What could be simpler?
Sayno is about as simple as you get, he doesn't let trivial things
like facts clutter up his mind.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Shawk
"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:jlne81d1s85v3kkc2...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:32:50 +0100, "Shawk"
> <sh...@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:
>
>>What could be simpler?
>
> Sayno is about as simple as you get, he doesn't let trivial things
> like facts clutter up his mind.
I know... I just have a compulsion to bang my head repeatedly against the
brick wall....
NightSky 421
news:11161675...@despina.uk.clara.net...
>
> Hell of a lot on dial up dont you think? Or of course you can get it off
a
> magazine - like HL2.
>
> (BTW - reason HL2 was only released in one magazine may be because the
> *whole* game was released on the DVD already patched. You just needed to
> load it, sign into Steam and away you go...)
>
Which magazine specifically?
Schrodinger
"steamKILLER" <sayNO...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116151200.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
Reposted for the benefit of the Google archive.
Shawk
"NightSky 421" <night...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:118epsk...@corp.supernews.com...
PCGamer UK DVD Edition, issue 148, May 2005. Entire Steam Cache (inc CS:S)
on Side B. Over 4GB worth.
Company Man
>>
>> (BTW - reason HL2 was only released in one magazine may be because the
>> *whole* game was released on the DVD already patched. You just needed to
>> load it, sign into Steam and away you go...)
>>
Is the patched DVD version on sale in the U.S.?
look@worldnet.att.net dawg
mostly you're right. I only download large files when absolutely necessary.
Othewise I go to my brother who has a cable connection.
snip
Shawk
"Company Man" <sp...@covert.invalid> wrote in message
news:118fab1...@corp.supernews.com...
It isnt a proper game disk but a demo disk on a magazine. Take a look at
the May 2005 US version of PCGamer - I dont believe they'd only release
these patches in the UK.
fishy_stink_ho
"Shawk" <sh...@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
He's right about one thing though...Steam does really suck. The fact that I
would EVER have to wait for an update is bass-ackward. I wanna play NOW
dammit! Steam is a failed experiment, hope they don't attempt it again.
Raymond Martineau
wrote:
>
>"steamKILLER" <sayNO...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1116151200.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> x-no-archive: yes
[...]
>> . dial-up is not reliable to make big downloads
Obviously, the resident pseudo-clown hasn't heard of Getright, and doesn't
want Google to retain this information.
>On 27th January the Painkiller patch 1.61 was released. 338MB
>On 28th February patch 1.62 at 108MB
>On 25th March patch 1.63 at 5.35MB
>On 29th March patch 1.64 at 6.37MB
>
<humor>
Impressive how they managed to do 50:1 compression on the content of the
patch file. :)
</humor>
>That's 457.72MB
>
>Hell of a lot on dial up dont you think?
3.0KB/sec seems to be a "normal" rate for dial-up modems. 3.0KB/sec
translates roughly to 10MB/hr. 2 hour day means 20MB per day - it should
download within the month.
If you have a 56K modem, you should be pulling in at least 4.0KB/sec on a
proper connection. 4.0KB/sec translated to 14MB/hr. For 2 hours a day,
it's just over two weeks. In practice, downloading large files involes
taking longer-than normal sessions outside of normal business hours,
meaning that it will fit within those two weeks.
I know this for sure, since I've attempted to download a 270MB Linux ISO on
a dial-up connection (and deleted it because it was missing GDB, a critical
debugging package for developers.)
McGrandpa
That's the basic install. I have a flat 11.0 gigs in my Steam folder.
Steam has placed 7.14 gigs worth of .gcf files in the SteamApps folder
alone. But then, for me, that's everything but DoD:S :)
McG.
JAB
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> dawg wrote:
>
> mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
> we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
> our next door neighbour!
>
... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't
let logic or fact spoil your argument.
Terry
"JAB" <noh...@nochance.com> wrote in message
news:SoXhe.8013$sE4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> steamKILLER wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> dawg wrote:
>>
>> mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
>> we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
>> our next door neighbour!
>>
> ... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't let
> logic or fact spoil your argument.
You are wrong.
I can definately say that half-life is almost impossible with dial up any
way.
I started half-life this morning out of curiousity. It immediately
downloaded
30meg of data. On a dial up this is nearly 2hours.
I do not expect on a single player game to have to wait 2hours before I can
play it.
Never never never again will I buy something like this.
Andrew
<te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> ... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't let
>> logic or fact spoil your argument.
>
>You are wrong.
Why is he wrong?
>I can definately say that half-life is almost impossible with dial up any
>way.
It isn't impossible, just slower. There are people who bought and
downloaded HL2 over a modem via Steam, never mind just the updates.
>I started half-life this morning out of curiousity. It immediately
>downloaded
>30meg of data. On a dial up this is nearly 2hours.
>
>I do not expect on a single player game to have to wait 2hours before I can
>play it.
So run it in offline mode. If you want the updates then let Steam
connect online when it is a more convenient time for you.
Shawk
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Shawk wrote:
>
>>> Which magazine specifically?
>>
>> PCGamer UK DVD Edition, issue 148, May 2005.
>
> so not only it was released in only a specific issue, in a
> specific month, in a specific and exclusive game magazine,
> it was only in a specific and exclusive market place!
> its ridiculous! totally ridiculous!
> i spit on valve face for there total lack of respect for us
> pc gamers!
>
PCGamer has publications around the world - it's a fair sized marketplace.
May have also been in other magazines - I dont know - I told you about the
magazine I use. May also be in other magazines in the future. Looks like
the pressure brought to bear on Valve by proper gamers through proper
channels is working anfd they are being listened to. It's a start anyway.
I'm now bored with your stupidity, childish insults and perpetuation of a
long dead subject. Bye 4 good. Keep taking the meds.
Ries
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> dawg wrote:
>
> mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
> we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
> our next door neighbour!
here in The Netherlands we also have flat rate, maybe you're living in
uzbekistan where they still use smoke signals to communicate with each
other butin most common European countries flatrate is becoming a standard.
Ries
Terry
"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:09:11 +0100, "Terry"
> <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> ... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't
>>> let
>>> logic or fact spoil your argument.
>>
>>You are wrong.
>
> Why is he wrong?
>
>>I can definately say that half-life is almost impossible with dial up any
>>way.
>
> It isn't impossible, just slower. There are people who bought and
> downloaded HL2 over a modem via Steam, never mind just the updates.
>
Half-life2 = 4700 megs @ 5k-bytes per sec
which = 18megs per hour.
which = 261 hours = 10.8 days assuming a fast non - interupted service.
I do not believe anybody has downloaded half_life2 on a dial up connection.
Regards
Terry
"Ries" <ri...@cistron.nl> wrote in message
news:d69pif$1n6$1...@news.cistron.nl...
Flat rate is not common in the UK. A monthly fee can be paid for it.
Why should I have to pay anything extra to play a single player game.
No mention was made of this on the box.
It was a complete ripoff.
![Peter [AGHL]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWYD7Zk7v6WZ0sHNNcP791q7jeyzoTh_SAm25WGL1hNJd10pA=s40-c)
Peter [AGHL]
> i spit on valve face for there total lack of respect for us
> pc gamers!
>
Valve is doing far more for their customers than any other gaming
company I know off
And I do have PC games (FPS mainly) from most publishers
Regarding this Steam thing you're so overheated about
It's a fact that some customers is not able to take advantage of
benefits Steam offers
No doubt about this
It's also a fact that you can't patch your game through normal channels
It's also a fact that Steam has some very annoying bugs
If I had a gaming company and would like to give my customers a far
better gaming experience than they ever had before
What would the obvious choices be?
Do what the rest of industry does (retail, media protection, media
detection etc) nahh
Or go where no man has gone before?
Worth a try at least
Maybe Valve has gone too far?
But giving eg 2 million customers a better experience and ignore the
fact that maybe 1000 is not able play the game is one of the decisions
which you have to make
Ok you might whine about it, who cares
You can take contact with Valve directly in an adult and reasonable
manner and your problems will be taken seriously
I have seen examples where very few people (customers) has had great
influence on the design of Steam and changes in this design
And please take my word for it if you're using foul language or is
demanding in your writings you will be stashed and forgotten about
Valve treats serious customers seriously because both will gain benefit
from the encounter
Your huge amoount of postings on usenet is nothing but laughable for
mainly two facts:
1)
You're whining and not being constructive
2)
Valve will never read this group, too busy handling serious requests
Go post on the Steampowered forums I am wuite sure you'll fit in nicely
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
HTH
Andrew
<te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Flat rate is not common in the UK. A monthly fee can be paid for it.
That is what flat rate means, *sigh*.
>Why should I have to pay anything extra to play a single player game.
>
>No mention was made of this on the box.
You mean apart from saying an internet connection is required in the
specs written on the box?
>It was a complete ripoff.
Everyone in the world is at fault apart from you huh?
Terry
"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 10:42:59 +0100, "Terry"
> <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Flat rate is not common in the UK. A monthly fee can be paid for it.
>
> That is what flat rate means, *sigh*.
>
>>Why should I have to pay anything extra to play a single player game.
>>
>>No mention was made of this on the box.
>
> You mean apart from saying an internet connection is required in the
> specs written on the box?
>
>>It was a complete ripoff.
>
> Everyone in the world is at fault apart from you huh?
You think I am the only one with problems on this?
No mention was made on the box about needing a flat rate dial
up connection or broadband. I was a deliberate attempt to
mislead.
Terry
"Peter [AGHL]" <peter...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116236966....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> steamKILLER wrote:
>
>> i spit on valve face for there total lack of respect for us
>> pc gamers!
>>
> Valve is doing far more for their customers than any other gaming
> company I know off
> And I do have PC games (FPS mainly) from most publishers
>
> Regarding this Steam thing you're so overheated about
>
> It's a fact that some customers is not able to take advantage of
> benefits Steam offers
> No doubt about this
> It's also a fact that you can't patch your game through normal channels
> It's also a fact that Steam has some very annoying bugs
>
> If I had a gaming company and would like to give my customers a far
> better gaming experience than they ever had before
> What would the obvious choices be?
>
> Do what the rest of industry does (retail, media protection, media
> detection etc) nahh
>
> Or go where no man has gone before?
> Worth a try at least
>
> Maybe Valve has gone too far?
> But giving eg 2 million customers a better experience and ignore the
> fact that maybe 1000 is not able play the game is one of the decisions
> which you have to make
>
I would disagree with your numbers and there is no getting away from
the fact that Valve mislead people with no mention of the negatives
on their retail box. It was a rip off.
Regards
Shawk
"Terry" <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d69v6d$j9p$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>
> I would disagree with your numbers and there is no getting away from
> the fact that Valve mislead people with no mention of the negatives
> on their retail box. It was a rip off.
>
> Regards
>
>
The information on the box could (and IMHO should) have been clearer - but
as Vivendi produced the box not Valve I have no idea whether they or Valve
are to blame. For people that bought last November I can understand their
frustration. Anyone buying today has no excuse - this subject has been done
to death in magazines, forums and newsgroups for 6 months. The only folk
that may never heard of Steam today 'might' be the non-gaming buyers who are
buying the game for a relative ....but of course you are then only running
the same risk as you might for games like World of Warcraft etc aren't you?
Peter [AGHL]
> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
> > But giving eg 2 million customers a better experience and ignore
the
> > fact that maybe 1000 is not able play the game is one of the
decisions
> > which you have to make
> >
> I would disagree with your numbers
Let's say 1/2 million can't be play the game, 1000 of those were stupid
enough to by it anyway
> and there is no getting away from the fact that
> Valve mislead people with no mention of the negatives
> on their retail box.
Ahh but who's the distributor and who decided the layout and the form
of the retailpackage?
Who dished the copy protection when they got reports that people had
problems
Who didn't make sure that the install could run flawlessly if you
deslected CS:S
Is Valve to blame for the distributors incompetance?
Peter [AGHL]
Terry wrote:
> No mention was made on the box about needing a
> flat rate dial up connection or broadband.
It is stated on the box:
Internet connection required
> I was a deliberate attempt to
> mislead.
Don't give Vivendi too much credit
It was a stupid mistake nothing else
Chadwick
steamKILLER wrote:
> . dial-up is not suitable for steam PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION!
> . the dvd magazine with the supposed patches is WORTHLESS CRAP!
> . steam infection has no place in the healthy retail market!
I agree with you on the first point. Steam and dial-up don't go well
together. I would go further than that though - dial-up and downloading
ANY large file is painful. If you have dial-up, how are you supposed to
download high res photos? How do transfer your home movies to your
family abroad? How do you download game demos? Funny flash games off
the internet? Humourless clips of a monkey sniffing its finger?
In fact, even regular email and web browsing takes much longer on a
dial-up.
Conclusion: dial-up is bad for the internet, bad for email, bad for
downloading, patching, communication, browsing and in fact general
computing. It is evil , do you hear me, EVIL!! All modems should be
BURNED! Destroy the monoplistics Modem Conspiracy! Exterminate!
Exterminate!
Shawk
"Chadwick" <chadw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116247622.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
7/10 - needs more exclamation marks and capital letters.
Nice try though.
McGrandpa
I know they have. Using Steam. PRE installed, PREpaid and running it
an hour after it was officially released. They had a month to get it,
a little at a time. But they're not happy about the large updates, so,
they turn autoupdate off and played the game in offline mode.
McG.
McGrandpa
Valve did not produce the retail packaging. Vivendi Universal Games
did.
SpammersDie
"Chadwick" <chadw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116247622.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>> . dial-up is not suitable for steam PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION!
>> . the dvd magazine with the supposed patches is WORTHLESS CRAP!
>> . steam infection has no place in the healthy retail market!
>
> I agree with you on the first point. Steam and dial-up don't go well
> together. I would go further than that though - dial-up and downloading
> ANY large file is painful.
True, although with most product patches distributed by FTP or standard HTTP
download, it's mitigated by the fact that:
- I only have to download it once. Once downloaded, I can archive the patch
on CD so I'll never have to download it again when I move the game to a new
PC or have to resintall for whatever reason.
- Downloading is idempotent. If a download is interrupted, at worst, I have
to restart the download. I'm not left with a game left in some weird
half-patched state.
- Downloading doesn't have to be done at the same time I patch the game. I
can do the download overnight when I'm not using the machine anyway and
still continue to reasearch the net on whether the patch actually fixes
problems I'm interested in and doesn't introduce its own problems.
- Downloading doesn't have to be done on the same machine I use to play the
game. I can bypass the slow dialup bottleneck altogether by using a machine
with a fast connection to do the download and transter the patch on a USB
flashdrive.
- Downloading doesn't require me to connect an app with full admin
privileges to the internet for hours on time. It allows me to stay in my
normal LUA that I use for all internet activities.
These mitigations make the occasional job of downloading large patches on a
dialup tolerable (not pleasant, but tolerable.)
Of course, I said *most* product patches. Guess which technology makes all
of these mitigations unusable? Oh yes, and guess which technology will
instantly put any game on my "won't buy" list.
> If you have dial-up, how are you supposed to
> download high res photos? How do transfer your home movies to your
> family abroad? How do you download game demos? Funny flash games off
> the internet? Humourless clips of a monkey sniffing its finger?
None of these things are inherently necessary for playing a single-player
game so I don't care that my dialup makes it painful to do those things.
They are not activities that interest me in the least.
JAB
> "JAB" <noh...@nochance.com> wrote in message
> news:SoXhe.8013$sE4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
>>steamKILLER wrote:
>>
>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>>dawg wrote:
>>>
>>>mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
>>>we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
>>>our next door neighbour!
>>>
>>
>>... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't let
>>logic or fact spoil your argument.
>
>
> You are wrong.
>
So most dial-up in the UK is pay as you go?
JAB
> "Ries" <ri...@cistron.nl> wrote in message
> news:d69pif$1n6$1...@news.cistron.nl...
>
>>steamKILLER wrote:
>>
>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>>dawg wrote:
>>>
>>>mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
>>>we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
>>>our next door neighbour!
>>
>>here in The Netherlands we also have flat rate, maybe you're living in
>>uzbekistan where they still use smoke signals to communicate with each
>>other butin most common European countries flatrate is becoming a
>>standard.
>>
>
>
>
> Flat rate is not common in the UK. A monthly fee can be paid for it.
>
Do you actually live in the UK?
Chadwick
Terry wrote:
> No mention was made on the box about needing a flat rate dial
> up connection or broadband. I was a deliberate attempt to
> mislead.
Broadband or flat rate dial-up are not MUST HAVES to play HL2. HL2 The
game works on any internet connection, it just takes longer to download
or costs more to download patches, depending on your internet
connection.
This is not unique to HL2! The speed and cost of any and all internet
activity will vary according to your connection. For the best speed,
you will want broadband. For the best cost, you'll want a flat rate if
you soend a lot of time online, and PAYG if not. The point is that it
is not up to Valve and Vivendi how you connect to the internet or to
tell you how to get value for money out of your connection.
mrlg
> "Terry" <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d69v6d$j9p$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>>
>>I would disagree with your numbers and there is no getting away from
>>the fact that Valve mislead people with no mention of the negatives
>>on their retail box. It was a rip off.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>
>
>
> The information on the box could (and IMHO should) have been clearer - but
> as Vivendi produced the box not Valve I have no idea whether they or Valve
> are to blame. For people that bought last November I can understand their
> frustration. Anyone buying today has no excuse - this subject has been done
> to death in magazines, forums and newsgroups for 6 months.
Do you know what percentage of HL2 customers read gaming magazines,
forums, and newsgroups? HL2 isn't some obscure game that only
hardcore gamers hear about. Many people bought it, and many more
will buy it until it's taken off the shelves, without knowing
anything about Steam or the size of the initial download.
If they have broadband, it isn't a big problem. But if they
don't, they're going to need a lot of patience. They might
be better off taking their computer to a friend's house
(someone with broadband) to "activate" it through their
connection rather than download all those files on a dialup.
Of course putting inadequate or misleading system
requirements on a game box isn't anything new.
> The only folk
> that may never heard of Steam today 'might' be the non-gaming buyers who are
> buying the game for a relative ....
If that were true you wouldn't have so many people complaining about it.
> but of course you are then only running
> the same risk as you might for games like World of Warcraft etc aren't you?
World of Warcraft is multiplayer only.
HL2 has both single and multiplayer components.
Most games with single and multiplayer components do not
require you to download anything to play the single
player part. A few might be too buggy to play and might
have a huge patch, in which case someone without broadband
could still ask a friend to burn the patch to CDR for them.
With HL2, I don't see an alternative to taking the
entire computer to the friend's house for updating.
mrlg
> Terry wrote:
>
>
>>No mention was made on the box about needing a
>>flat rate dial up connection or broadband.
>
>
> It is stated on the box:
> Internet connection required
It is not stated "broadband recommended"
or better yet, "broadband strongly recommended"
Given the size of the updates, it should be.
>>I was a deliberate attempt to
>>mislead.
>
>
> Don't give Vivendi too much credit
> It was a stupid mistake nothing else
>
It's standard practice to understate required specs on game boxes.
But it shouldn't be.
Shawk
"mrlg" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:315ie.2661$M36....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Shawk wrote:
>> "Terry" <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:d69v6d$j9p$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>>>
>>>I would disagree with your numbers and there is no getting away from
>>>the fact that Valve mislead people with no mention of the negatives
>>>on their retail box. It was a rip off.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>> The information on the box could (and IMHO should) have been clearer -
>> but as Vivendi produced the box not Valve I have no idea whether they or
>> Valve are to blame. For people that bought last November I can
>> understand their frustration. Anyone buying today has no excuse - this
>> subject has been done to death in magazines, forums and newsgroups for 6
>> months.
>
>
> Do you know what percentage of HL2 customers read gaming magazines,
> forums, and newsgroups? HL2 isn't some obscure game that only
> hardcore gamers hear about.
My point exactly - most that have heard of HL2 must surely have heard about
Steam by now?
> Many people bought it, and many more
> will buy it until it's taken off the shelves, without knowing
> anything about Steam or the size of the initial download.
> If they have broadband, it isn't a big problem. But if they
> don't, they're going to need a lot of patience. They might
> be better off taking their computer to a friend's house
> (someone with broadband) to "activate" it through their
> connection rather than download all those files on a dialup.
...or get them off the PCGamer DVD (but point taken)
> Of course putting inadequate or misleading system
> requirements on a game box isn't anything new.
>
Yup
>> The only folk that may never heard of Steam today 'might' be the
>> non-gaming buyers who are buying the game for a relative ....
>
> If that were true you wouldn't have so many people complaining about it.
Havent seen that many - less than 20 across the NG's (most of those dried up
months ago and the others are the same folk repeating the same old
stories) - you have another source of complainants?
>> but of course you are then only running the same risk as you might for
>> games like World of Warcraft etc aren't you?
>
> World of Warcraft is multiplayer only.
> HL2 has both single and multiplayer components.
> Most games with single and multiplayer components do not
> require you to download anything to play the single
> player part. A few might be too buggy to play and might
> have a huge patch, in which case someone without broadband
> could still ask a friend to burn the patch to CDR for them.
> With HL2, I don't see an alternative to taking the
> entire computer to the friend's house for updating.
You missed my point - a non-gamer buying a present will only buy you
something you actually want through your instruction or through sheer luck.
If you're a 56k'er you are as likely to get an unsuitable online game like
World of Warcraft as HL2
look@worldnet.att.net dawg
another PC(w/broadband),get the patches,burn them to CD and then install and
run it on MY PC later? I'm only interested in Single Player anyway.
Please no anti-steam answers.(yeah right).
"SpammersDie" <x...@xx.xx> wrote in message
news:Rb2ie.772102$w62.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Peter [AGHL]
dawg wrote:
> I'm wondering, if I bought the reatail box game, could I install it
on
> another PC(w/broadband),get the patches,burn them to CD and then
install and
> run it on MY PC later? I'm only interested in Single Player anyway.
> Please no anti-steam answers.(yeah right).
>
Copy the game to a DVD's or CD's and restore the game in the exact same
location (same drive/folder etc)
Haven't tried it though as we have broadband
However I have tried to restore/reinstall XP on a new disc and Steam
(located on another drive) worked within seconds after running the new
OS for the first time
Worth a try I'd say
NightSky 421
>
> You think I am the only one with problems on this?
>
> No mention was made on the box about needing a flat rate dial
> up connection or broadband. I was a deliberate attempt to
> mislead.
>
Terry, of course, is correct. The thing too is that even for people with
high speed connections like ADSL or cable, quite often an ISP will place a
10GB up/down monthly limit. Games like Half-Life 2 are going to suck a lot
of that monthly bandwidth. It's great to see that developers get a bigger
piece of the financial pie with direct distribution, but I see it as being
overly intrusive and inconvenient for the customer. Besides, whatever was
wrong with going to a store and buying games using good ol' cash? Now you
have send credit card information over the Internet. And what about those
people without a credit card, or prefer to be part of the pay-as-you-go
society?
Anyway, this whole thing is an endless debate. People have taken sides as
to whether they like Steam or not and it's not likely at this point that
anyone is going to win anyone else over to their side. I will only say that
Valve has lost the sale of two games to me over Steam and I have to wonder
how many other holdouts besides me are out there. Quite a few, I suspect.
Flame away...
Andrew
>So most dial-up in the UK is pay as you go?
Not for at least 5 years, flat rate "unlimited" packages are the norm
now.
Peter [AGHL]
NightSky 421 wrote:
>
> Terry, of course, is correct. The thing too is that even for people
with
> high speed connections like ADSL or cable, quite often an ISP will
place a
> 10GB up/down monthly limit.
Hehe, change to another ISP and pay the little extra
No Cap here
> I will only say that Valve has lost the sale of two games to me over
> Steam and I have to wonder how many other holdouts besides me are
> out there. Quite a few, I suspect.
>
> Flame away...
No need to flame
You have done you only reasonable thing you can do as a consumer: Vote
with your wallet
You could send a friendly email to Gabe Newell explaining why you don't
want to buy their games - but it's up to you :-)
Freedom55
--
And it really doesn't matter if
I'm wrong I'm right
Where I belong I'm right
Where I belong.
Lennon & McCartney
LymanAlpha
>
>
>Valve did not produce the retail packaging. Vivendi Universal Games
>did.
>
>
>
>
If Valve had their way the packaging would have said, "Super-fast
broadband required, don't buy this box, purchase the game from us
directly using our Steam client"
--
The Official God FAQ: http://www.400monkeys.com/God/
Steve å…Ingloå’«
www.inglostadt.com
Sheldon England
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> dial-up and steam (again)
Gah! I will donate $5 to anyone who drops an anvil on the head of this
fool. Any takers? Will go as high as $10 if there is video of the
incident.
- Sheldon
McGrandpa
news:ZE9ie.18130$J12....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com
> On 5/16/2005 6:18 AM McGrandpa brightened our day with:
>
>>
>>
>> Valve did not produce the retail packaging. Vivendi Universal Games
>> did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> If Valve had their way the packaging would have said, "Super-fast
> broadband required, don't buy this box, purchase the game from us
> directly using our Steam client"
LOL! Likely wouldn't have been a box, but a nice looking gamecard with
instructions and a "lotto scratchoff" strip with your newly purchased
KEY :) Hey, the retailers should love that, much much more of that
product can go thru their tills with a lot less requirement for shelf
space and packaging mass and waste! :)
Sign over the HL2 shelf: "You scratch it, you bought it!"
McG.
Spalls Hurgenson
>Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>> Terry wrote:
>>>No mention was made on the box about needing a
>>>flat rate dial up connection or broadband.
>> It is stated on the box:
>> Internet connection required
>It is not stated "broadband recommended"
>or better yet, "broadband strongly recommended"
>Given the size of the updates, it should be.
And "Internet Connection required" isn't really all that is needed
either. You can connect to the Internet through a restrictive proxy
and firewall (say, port 80 and 25 only, maybe 1080 and 21 too if the
admins are really nice) and Steam won't work for you because -for some
reason known only to Valve- they decided that they had to forgo using
such standard ports for something up in the 2700s. For most people,
"Internet" is synonymous with web-browsing and e-mail, so these
unfortunates -such as might be found in many a university dorm- would
be quite surprised that Half Life doesn't work.
Fishy_stink_ho
I live in the US, have fast broadband and still resent STEAM-y pile. I
don't want to wait ever.
On the other hand, PC games are probably not going to be around much longer
if they can't make money on them. (eb and Gamestop are almost all console
games now) So, I guess I'll suffer STEAM-y pile a while longer.
At least HL2 didn't have save-points (as opposed to save anywhere) THAT is a
deal-breaker for me...
NightSky 421
>
> Hehe, change to another ISP and pay the little extra
> No Cap here
>
I have no intentions of picking up Half-Life 2, but the bandwidth issue can
be a concern for some high speed users, to say nothing of how it can affect
dial-up users. Myself, I do have a high speed connection now (got it in
February) and it does have the said 10GB limit, but the price for the first
year is only $16.04 CDN (including sales tax) so I really couldn't complain.
>
> No need to flame
>
> You have done you only reasonable thing you can do as a consumer: Vote
> with your wallet
>
I appreciate the constructive reply on your part. Even though people feel
strongly about it one way or another, I don't think something like this is
worth creating any ill will between users. Constructive debate, yes, but
not lasting vendettas. :-)
> You could send a friendly email to Gabe Newell explaining why you don't
> want to buy their games - but it's up to you :-)
>
I did e-mail Valve about my concerns on two occasions in the last six months
but never got a reply either time. Even so, I felt I did my part to make
them aware of how I feel, and I'm sure others have done the same. I suspect
they hope that people will eventually accept this sort of distribution
method, given enough time.
Walter Mitty
>
>
> He's right about one thing though...Steam does really suck. The fact that I
> would EVER have to wait for an update is bass-ackward. I wanna play NOW
> dammit! Steam is a failed experiment, hope they don't attempt it again.
>
>
play offline then you fuckwit.
Kevin O'Donovan
"steamKILLER" <sayNO...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116151200.0...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> dial-up and steam (again)
>
Have you considered getting laid?
Kevin O'Donovan
"Terry" <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d69kfe$deb$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "JAB" <noh...@nochance.com> wrote in message
> news:SoXhe.8013$sE4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> steamKILLER wrote:
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>> dawg wrote:
>>>
>>> mister this "unlimited local calls" is a "US" thing!
>>> we in the rest of the world always PAY even if its to call
>>> our next door neighbour!
>>>
>> ... and in the UK dial-up internet is almost all flat rate, but don't let
>> logic or fact spoil your argument.
>
> You are wrong.
And what has anything you have said got to with what he said?!? FFS, at
least read the posts before you dive in :-(
>
> I can definately say that half-life is almost impossible with dial up any
> way.
>
> I started half-life this morning out of curiousity. It immediately
> downloaded
> 30meg of data. On a dial up this is nearly 2hours.
>
> I do not expect on a single player game to have to wait 2hours before I
> can play it.
>
> Never never never again will I buy something like this.
Terry
"Kevin O'Donovan" <not....@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:8tnol2-...@mercury.tcm.vispa.net.uk...
Walter Mitty
>
> No mention was made on the box about needing a flat rate dial
> mislead.
>
You dont need a flat rate "dial up" to play. Methinks you should go to
Internet School for ten minutes.
Walter Mitty
>>
>
> Hmm theoretically you could install and update HL2
> Copy the game to a DVD's or CD's and restore the game in the exact same
> location (same drive/folder etc)
> Haven't tried it though as we have broadband
>
What the hell is this "hmmm" and "theoretically"?
There is a totally obvious easy to use "back up" option in the Steam
menu. No theoretically, no "hmmm". It works.
Peter [AGHL]
If you're using the backup option I'd say that you need to connect to
the Steam authentication system once after the restore on the new
system
In order to build the clientregistry.blob
My idea was to prevent this from happen, I haven't tried neither
options though
Chadwick
steamKILLER wrote:
> with the painkiller report you wrote such a good post but
> you had to ruin it with again the same old crap pro steam
> propaganda!
Thanks. I didn't think I was proSteam on this one. Oh well, back to the
drawing board.
> i've been using dial-up for many years now and i don't need
> anything else for accessing the internet!
>
> i don't need broadband! don't you get it! i don't need it!
> all the applications i use in the internet don't make me
> require more than dial-up
That was the point I was making before I got overly sarcastic. You can
access the internet and do everything you want with dial-up. Your list
below shows that you very sensibly limit your online activity to suit
your connection.
If you had broadband, you would be able to do all the extra bits and
generally do everything faster. You could download bigger files in less
time.
It's the same with Hl2. It does work over dial-up, but you're better
off with broadband.
>
> email: i use only text based email no html or any binary
> attachments
> newsgroups: only access to text only groups and never use
> binaries for newsgroups
> web: don't have any problem checking the pages i want
> downloads: very limited number, i can tell you the last
> downloads i made was winamp 5.09 lite edition only 800k!
> and the great firefox which was much bigger but totally
> worthy of the time and money i spend downloading it
> chat: don't use it
> streaming: don't use it
> gaming: i don't play multiplayer games i don't like them
> as for patches i almost never need to apply them cause i
> end up buying the gold edition which is already fully
> patched but those i need i ask fellow gamer friends and
> lately i haven't tried any demos, trailers, videos or even
> screenshots cause i decide what pc games to buy by going
> to my local retail store or by reading this group or the
> news in some selected websites, for example i decided to
> buy boiling point but i haven't saw even a single trailer
> video or screenshot or whatever cause i already made my
> mind, boiling point is a must buy
>
> now after all this writing i must say it ends up being
> worthless... why?
> cause i already told you many times over and over again
> that the steam issue is not about dial-up vs broadband
Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was about "dial-up and steam". My bad.
> i already stated very clearly even if i have broadband
> i would still not accept steam
> steam is about freedom, dignity and consumer rights and
> no matter what internet connect i have i will never ever
> accept it
> i will rather give up being a pc gamer than accepting
> steam!
> mr chadwick give up! I'LL NEVER ACCEPT STEAM! NEVER EVER!
> END OF STORY!
I'm not asking you to accept it. I'm just disputing some of your
arguments against it.
Kevin O'Donovan
Terry
"Walter Mitty" <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3eu31jF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Terry wrote:
>>
>> No mention was made on the box about needing a flat rate dial
>> up connection or broadband. I was a deliberate attempt to
>> mislead.
>>
To download 200meg download at 0.024 pounds per min @5k per sec
= 40000secs
Total download = 11.11 hours
Total cost = 666.66 mins * 0.024 uk pounds = 16 pounds.
A very expensive game.
Methinks you should learn to add up.
Regards
Terry
LOL
Regards
Andrew
<te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>To download 200meg download at 0.024 pounds per min @5k per sec
>= 40000secs
>
>Total download = 11.11 hours
>Total cost = 666.66 mins * 0.024 uk pounds = 16 pounds.
>
> A very expensive game.
Only if you are stupid enough to be paying 2.4p/m for your net access
- oops, sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.
Terry
"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:1ctj81ln56vbvturu...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:31:48 +0100, "Terry"
> <te...@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>To download 200meg download at 0.024 pounds per min @5k per sec
>>= 40000secs
>>
>>Total download = 11.11 hours
>>Total cost = 666.66 mins * 0.024 uk pounds = 16 pounds.
>>
>> A very expensive game.
>
> Only if you are stupid enough to be paying 2.4p/m for your net access
> - oops, sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.
> --
The cheapest pay as you go = 1p which = 6.66 pounds
Still very expensive.
Regards
Peter [AGHL]
Ken Marsh wrote:
>
> It seems to have both, which is not a bad thing. If I forget to save
or
> quicksave for a while, I don't lose too much time replaying.
>
HL2 has savepoints when you change map or go thru points of no return
eg over/thru obstacles and you can't go back
rgds
Spalls Hurgenson
wrote:
>Hi,
>
>In article <a7ni819rh68fsuv5u...@4ax.com>,
>Spalls Hurgenson <there> wrote:
>#And "Internet Connection required" isn't really all that is needed
>#either. You can connect to the Internet through a restrictive proxy
>#and firewall (say, port 80 and 25 only, maybe 1080 and 21 too if the
>#admins are really nice) and Steam won't work for you because -for some
>#reason known only to Valve- they decided that they had to forgo using
>#such standard ports for something up in the 2700s. For most people,
>#"Internet" is synonymous with web-browsing and e-mail, so these
>#unfortunates -such as might be found in many a university dorm- would
>#be quite surprised that Half Life doesn't work.
>Using a non-priveledged port is the norm for a game, but you expect it
>to use port 80 or port 25? That's bizarre.
No, I expect it to use a standard port for things like downloading its
updates, and for any authentication. There's no reason it should
require otherwise. For multiplayer gameplay, sure. Heck, it'd even be
acceptable for it to default to 27000 (or whatever port Steam uses) so
long as it can also drop back to 80/21 if non-standard ports don't
work. More so since Half Life 2 -even in single-player mode- won't
work without an "internet connection"; the program should bend over
backwards to make sure it works for EVERYONE.
Walter Mitty
>
>
> The cheapest pay as you go = 1p which = 6.66 pounds
> Still very expensive.
And still very stupid.
Chadwick
Ken Marsh wrote:
> In article <KZKdnd8a8_1...@comcast.com>,
> Fishy_stink_ho <gomu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> #At least HL2 didn't have save-points (as opposed to save anywhere)
THAT is a
> #deal-breaker for me...
>
> It seems to have both, which is not a bad thing. If I forget to save
or
> quicksave for a while, I don't lose too much time replaying.
>
> minutes. Anything less than that, well, I won't buy it in the first
> place.
Save points make the game harder because you need to be more careful.
With a quicksave or unlimited save system, you just save the game and
go off to explore or do something stupid, safe in the knowledge that
you've got nothing to lose. Without it you need to take care of your
character.
I enjoyed IGI and Far Cry, which both have save points (unless you use
the patched version of FC, which does allow quicksaves). I'm currently
playing IGI2, which allows you to save anywhere, but only a limited
number of times for each level - to my mind this is a nice balance.
I think save points work in a planning/stealth type game (like IGI or
Far Cry) where you need to plan your approach first and work out a
strategy. For a straight FPS like HL2 or Doom, where you are more
likely to get killed in every firefight, then quick saves are more
useful.
Hank the Rapper
> chadwick my freedom is not negotiable!
Funny, because you think everyone else's freedom to use Steam, or play
MMORPGs and online games, or use consoles, or use Apple products is
negotiable.
McGrandpa
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Chadwick wrote:
>
>> Oh well, back to the drawing board.
>
> now go back and write in big letter... "STEAM DAMAGES PC GAMES"
>
>> below shows that you very sensibly limit your online activity
>
> i do it instead with pc games!
>
>> It's the same with Hl2. It does work over dial-up, but you're
>
You're not "wrong" on this one, I know for a fact you KNOW better. This
makes you a LIAR. You are a damnable LIAR that would not even buy and
play the game even if there were no Steam. YOU are a merchant who sees
one software developers ambitious and intelligent enterprise as a threat
to YOUR business interest. You have no interest whatever in the game
itself and you care not one whit about ANY of us. Only how much
product leaves your store and puts money in your till. Your ideology
and your presence in these newsgroups are an abomination.
It's *OUR* money and *WE* will spend it any way we see fit. YOU get out
of here and leave us alone.
McG.
>
>> Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was about "dial-up and steam".
>
> dial-up is a detail, it was always STEAM the main issue
>
>> I'm not asking you to accept it. I'm just disputing some of
>
> why don't you give up?
> i already told you i rather give up on pc games altogether
> than accepting steam
Raymond Martineau
wrote:
>On Mon, 16 May 2005 17:55:02 GMT, mrlg <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Peter [AGHL] wrote:
>>> Terry wrote:
>
>>>>No mention was made on the box about needing a
>>>>flat rate dial up connection or broadband.
>
>
>>> It is stated on the box:
>>> Internet connection required
>
>>It is not stated "broadband recommended"
>>or better yet, "broadband strongly recommended"
>>Given the size of the updates, it should be.
>
>
>And "Internet Connection required" isn't really all that is needed
>either. You can connect to the Internet through a restrictive proxy
>and firewall (say, port 80 and 25 only, maybe 1080 and 21 too if the
>admins are really nice)
That configuration is a "Standard Web-access, e-mail and FTP" connection.
While most Internet users only need that, it's not good enough to be
considered Internet access.
A standard connection has access to use all outbound ports (with a few
excpetions), regardless of its firewall status. Anything else is a proxy
connection rather than an Internet connection - just like attempting to use
Steam over the old NCF dial-up connection, which didn't support PPP.
BTW, autoupdating on port 80 is not a good idea - HTTP only "recently" (6
years ago) included resuming technology, and it's support for that isn't
really as solid as it could be. While custom resuming downloads might not
be better, they have features not present in standard download systems
(e.g. Tiger Tree Hashing, as used in Bittorrent.)
> For most people,
>"Internet" is synonymous with web-browsing and e-mail, so these
>unfortunates -such as might be found in many a university dorm- would
>be quite surprised that Half Life doesn't work.
The ones playing in a these kinds of university dorms would also be whining
about being unable to play multiplayer games on the broadband connection
that they paid for.
Worse case scenario involves copying "ClientRegistry.blob" from another
computer - possibly even the .GCF files.
McGrandpa
>
> McGrandpa wrote:
>
> grandpa listen up...
> a long time ago back in november 2004 when this all started
> at that time i still read the half-life group and i remember
> clearly you replying to me about steam... you obviously will
> not remember cause your brain is not as fresh but i'll recall
> what happened then...
I remember quite clearly. I archive my posts. I still don't LIKE
Steam. I am still a control freak. I am still very protective of my
privacy and consumer rights. Steam, if it were used to invade my
privacy (which includes my computer system) would be intolerable. I
did try it on the word of other individuals I can trust that Steam is
not invasive of MY stuff. And I still keep an eye on it. Because it
has the potential to be extremely harmful I will always mistrust it
somewhat. And I am, after all, a control freak.
Shall we recall something else from that time? The pictures of a kiosk
in open floor in a shop, loaded with Half-Life 2 boxes, ready for
release time and rollout. It finally dawned on you what the online
delivery system could do to sales in the retail shops. And you changed
completely. At no time did you ever appear to be excited and happy
about the impending release of this long awaited title. Only about the
boost in sales. Didn't you sell your stock out the first day? Perhaps
even the very first hour?
I'll tell ya what, every shop I've visited near me, and there are
several, fairly emptied their allocatment of HL2 *DURING THE LUNCH
HOUR!* on release day. And for a month the shops had lists of
pre-orders to fill. I do understand your abhorrence of Steam for what
its delivery method can do to retail business *IF* this means ever
became widespread in actual use.
You continue to spout rivers of leonian drivel, attacking Steam and any
who use it in any way. You've garnered no respect from anyone for this.
You haven't thought ahead even a pennys worth in this. Ok, I'll do it
for you, as you seem quite incapable of it.
/BEGIN:
Every plan and method has weaknesses as well as strengths. Look at
Steam closely, what the means of distributing product physically does.
Valve, desiring to make its rightful profit from the product it is
selling, knows full well that its method opens one channel in a big way
yet closes or restricts well established channels that contain deeply
entrenched "loss points" along the way. Surely you are able to see that
Valve wants its earnings. Valve wants more than the dollar out of ten
that it does get through the deeply entrenched establishment of....the
publisher. The retail shops only get what, a nickel from a dollar on
this? So just suppose that Valve and Retailers get together and figure
out a useful way for the Retailers to help Valve distribute its product.
Valves product is not Steam, but the games it develops. I believe that
Gabe and the entire crew at Valve would dearly LOVE to see their product
in SOME form on every merchants shelves with a line of smiling people
queued up just waiting to BUY it... in a shop... just like thru Steam.
You are right, it's GOOD to have some physical reference, PEOPLE do need
that somewhat. And don't you know that it would bring a smile to every
one of the people involved in creating HL2, for them to walk through
their local mall or corner shop, and seeing the final product of their
endeavors being asked for by happy smiling people??? Tell me those
people at Valve didn't dream of such a moment during a locked down
crunch time?
You've not spoken to a number of critical points. And I've seen that
you have deliberately iced over the REAL flaw in the cake. But that's
not really possible, icing over a huge gaping chunk of emptiness where
there *should* be cake. So where did that cake go? What happened to
it?
It's being eaten by Universal Studios own Vivendi Universal Games, the
well established, thoroughly entrenched, got an absolute stranglehold on
the entire GAMING industry now.... *PUBLISHING HOUSES*.
The publishing system has failed everyone. Valve is not the first nor
last to get the dirty end of the stick with a publishing house. Every
developer in the world has. The publishing houses have set themselves
as sort of "governors" of the industry. They are the "entertainment
labels" throughout the world. It appears they are FAR too big for
change. When the wide rivers of cashflow they have grown accustomed to
and MUST have to sustain their bulk, even so much as lessen
perceptibly...the crumbling and cracking begins.
The [publisher] in the entire entertainment industry has been dealt a
number of telling blows in the last few years. Yet even Valves Steam
could not deal the publishing industry nor even one publishing house a
mortal blow. And Valves own plan required the major intervention of
the refferee, The COURTS. Valve couldn't simply start distributing
through the internet. Valve had to have the rights to its own product
first. VUG tried to say Valve HAS NO rights to any of its own
products. The Courts rendered a decision and has established precedence
to several areas of the issues, stating clearly Valve DOES have the
right to distribute its own product through alternative channels. THIS
is the blow that rocked the entertainment publisher. Valve was simply
a little guy that stuck up for what he thought was right and fair.
Valve stood his ground. The Internet itself simply provided a little
dirt road, if all it was is dialup. Broadband paved and broadened that
road, Valve worked hard to make it a freeway for them. Valve
established viability of a channel BEFORE releasing a new product. The
way is now open to all developers. It has been shown there are viable
alternatives to things like a 90/10 publisher/developer split of revenue
generated by the distribution of the developers product. The bottom
line is to absolutely reverse that figure. In seeing this, we will
watch as the routes of distribution change in conventional channels.
Shop merchants will still be selling computer games.
People have been able to buy direct from the developer for years. If
you really want to talk about who started this whole thing, lets talk
about the early heavyweight contender: iD Software! Lets speak of the
game QUAKE. We had the shareware episode for quite a while before the
full game was to be made available. iD took PHONE orders and filled
those orders upon receipt of tender. Whether check, money order or
credit card iD phone sales took the orders. They took mine, and they
even shipped it that day, even though they didn't have my check in hand.
The two items crossed in the mails :) Oh and what about Hannover House,
Sunset House mail order companies? Hm? What about Sears? ACME? The
main ingredient those companies did NOT have was the internet.
A middleman is often a major player as entrepreneur; ergo one who is
good at getting person A together with person B and getting a good
result C while not being an actual part of that process himself. In
this industry, that middleman has grown into a decadently morbidly obese
PUBLISHER who has become even greedier and more money grubbing than
ever. You ever meet a rich man who didn't want more money? He becomes
adept at avoiding controls and constraints.
Well get ready for it, he is going to be rankled, and chomp at the bit.
Because Valve and the Courts Decision have definitely placed an
important constraint on the greedy publisher.
"Authors Rights" are, in the United States, pretty much inalienable.
And I believe the laws that protect those rights were the cornerstone in
Valves plea before the courts.
I think you should be able to see a number of "control freaks" in the
picture I've just painted. Sure, upset the balance at all and every
control freak in the chain gets paranoid. Me, you, everyone.
So now, here, at the end of my little rant, I'll suggest something in a
point blank kind of way. How about YOU talk with Valve and work out
some viable means of distribution of some incarnation of a physical
product that CAN pass through your tills and bring you continued revenue
also? Or do you think that Valve will turn their nose up at you? Do
you really think Valve is not going to want to make MORE money from
broader continued sales of its product? Do you really think the
shoppers won't like having more purchasing choices?
Go on, think on this a while. Then give it a try. YOU might be the
next major entrepreneur to make a difference on this scene.
Michael
McGrandpa
> you talked about you being a control freak and very protective
> about privacy and consumer rights and in any normal situation
> steam would always be totally unacceptable to you
> but at the end you admitted accepting it
> at that time i didn't want to reply but i'll do it now... yes
> yesterday i humiliated you once and today i'll do it again...
> but its for your own good
> your acceptance of steam is exactly the same as the issue with
> old people and social security and pensions... why don't older
> people get worried about the sustainability of social security?
> its cause older people will not be affected but rather future
> generations... and the same applies to you and steam
> you don't worry about steam cause it will be future generation
> of pc gamers that will suffer from it and by them you will be
> long gone
> this shows how selfish and reckless you are
> i'm sorry but the truth has to be told
> hope you don't take it personally
> now take my advice... be a good boy and return back to your
> steam infected master valve territory cause its you! YOU! who
> is not welcome here!
mrlg
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hank the Rapper wrote:
>
> oh so now you are also a apple lover too?
> you really have to be the opposite of everyone don't you?
> you support abusive against consumer rights steam!
> you support crap consoles!
> you refuse to acknowledge microsoft damage to pc games!
> you don't do a thing to promote protect and support pc games!
> and now you fall in love for the PROPRIETARY CRAP APPLE!!!
> A ROTTEN APPLE!
>
> --
> post made in a steam-free computer
> i said "NO" to valve and steam
>
You don't like proprietary stuff?
I suppose you're using Linux then - playing your games on Cedega.
If you're using Windows, you've got no reason to insult Macs for
being proprietary.
Spalls Hurgenson
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>Ken Marsh wrote:
>> Or, perhaps, you don't have any idea what you're talking about?
>i know what you mean... the guy doesn't make any sense at all
>but it wasn't always like this!
>Spalls was a reference to this group!
>when Spalls spoke everyone listen
>then he made the mistake of his life... accepted steam and now
>what we have is a low life scum retarded like many other steam
>infected pc gamers... its sad... very sad
I was unaware I've "accepted Steam". When did this happen?
Has somebody been buying, installing and playing Half Life 2 on my
computer without me knowing it .
Damn, I miss out on all the fun.
If you're going to insult somebody, at least make sure you got the
facts straight. I've decided to pass on HL2, in part because I don't
like how restrictive and anti-consumer Steam is, but also -more
practically- because I'm one of those poor boobs for whom Steam
wouldn't work anyway because it insists on using port 270000. You see,
I actually do have some idea what I'm talking about.
>Spalls is a living proof of what steam does to a pc gamer
>taking from him all his dignity freedom and intelligence
>Spalls example should be a warning to every pc gamer about what
>steam does to you... it will suck everything from you and leave
>you with nothing! NOTHING! like Spalls that now can't even write
>single coherent and understandable post when in the past he was
>a master creating stealer writing
Hank the Rapper
> oh so now you are also a apple lover too?
> you really have to be the opposite of everyone don't you?
> you support abusive against consumer rights steam!
> you support crap consoles!
> you refuse to acknowledge microsoft damage to pc games!
> you don't do a thing to promote protect and support pc games!
> and now you fall in love for the PROPRIETARY CRAP APPLE!!!
> A ROTTEN APPLE!
I don't love Apple, but you don't want anyone to have the freedom to use
Apple. That is hypocritical because you hate things that take freedom away
from you but I don't expect you to understand.
OldDog
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hank the Rapper wrote:
>
> oh so now you are also a apple lover too?
> you really have to be the opposite of everyone don't you?
Oh how boring the world would be if we were all alike.
> you support abusive against consumer rights steam!
What did you just say?
> you support crap consoles!
You support cardboard boxes that waste trees.
> you refuse to acknowledge microsoft damage to pc games!
You refuse to acknowledge that Valve won the first round against the evil
publisher.
> you don't do a thing to promote protect and support pc games!
Protect the property rights of the developer and go Steam.
> and now you fall in love for the PROPRIETARY CRAP APPLE!!!
> A ROTTEN APPLE!
>
If the apples are rotten, then find a new grocery store.
Hank the Rapper
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Hank the Rapper wrote:
>
> freedom to buy proper packaged in a box pc games
> its valve who want to take away my freedom not the other
> way around!
>
> i fight against piracy cause you cannot have freedom to
> steal! freedom has limits and people cannot have freedom
> to commit crimes!
>
> i fight against consoles cause they are targeting the pc
> and trying to monopolize the market unfairly and using
> dirty tricks
>
> mr hank i fight for freedom! and you? what do you fight
> for except trying to be against everything without ever
> defending anything
You are the William Wallace of PC gaming! FREEDOM!!!!
Peter [AGHL]
> You are the William Wallace of PC gaming! FREEDOM!!!!
Nahh William Wallace had a good reason and good arguments
Shawk
"Peter [AGHL]" <peter...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116655947.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hank the Rapper wrote:
>
>> You are the William Wallace of PC gaming! FREEDOM!!!!
>
> Nahh William Wallace had a good reason and good arguments
>
nah you're confusing William Wallace with Mel Gibson...
Peter [AGHL]
Shawk wrote:
> "Peter [AGHL]" wrote
> > Hank the Rapper wrote:
> >
> >> You are the William Wallace of PC gaming! FREEDOM!!!!
> >
> > Nahh William Wallace had a good reason and good arguments
>
> nah you're confusing William Wallace with Mel Gibson...
Nahh I taking about Sir William Wallace, second of three sons of Sir
Malcolm Wallace which was born on January 1272, in Scotland in the town
of Elerslie