[OT] Google Groups ending support for Usenet

[Justisaur]

Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
especially for the archive.

So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web based
alternatives? I've never found any.

- Justisaur

*************************************************************************

Google Groups ending support for Usenet
If you work with Usenet groups in Google Groups, support for these groups is ending soon.

What’s changing?
Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups.

In addition, Google’s Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server and associated peering will no longer be available, meaning Google will not support serving new Usenet content or exchanging content with other NNTP servers.

This change will not impact any non-Usenet content on Google Groups, including all user and organization-created groups. Most of the current Google Groups content is not Usenet content and will not be affected.

What do I need to do?
If you don’t actively engage with Usenet content, you don’t need to do anything. Current Usenet users will need to do two things before February 22, 2024 if they want to continue engaging with Usenet content:

Find a new Usenet client. Several free and paid alternatives are available, both web-based and application-based. To find a client, do a web search for "how do I find a usenet text client"
Find a new public Usenet server. The new client you choose will likely have a default server or a set of curated options for you. If not, to find a server, do a web search for "public NNTP servers."
Because Usenet is a distributed system, you do not need to migrate data. All of the Usenet content you can access today on Google Groups should already be synced to the new server you choose. After you select a new client and server, you can reselect the groups you’re interested in.

Why is Google Groups support for Usenet ending?
Over the last several years, legitimate activity in text-based Usenet groups has declined significantly because users have moved to more modern technologies and formats such as social media and web-based forums. Much of the content being disseminated via Usenet today is binary (non-text) file sharing, which Google Groups does not support, as well as spam.

[Metal Guru]

Justisaur wrote:

> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means
> no more archive for new content! I figured this day would come.
> Sucks, especially for the archive.
>
> So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web
> based alternatives? I've never found any.

Yeah, that's a shame - GG was handy when you needed to search something
in a pinch.

AFAIK there are only paid web based clients, EasyNews comes to mind and
they are excellent (if a bit pricey) specially if you are into
binaries. Keep an eye out for end of year sales if that's of interest
to you.

I'd been using Eternal September (free) with Thunderbird (free) until
today but have now switched to XanaNews (I know, don't ask) for the
time being since Thunderbird gets more bloated with every release and
the UI makes me want to poke my eyes out. But Xananews is not open
source, so I'm probably going to try lwblat in the coming days.

--
Reminder to Evangelicals: As soon as they made a godless, lying,
lawless womanizing conman their messiah a plague showed up. Just
sayin'...

[Justisaur]

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 4:26:17 PM UTC-8, Metal Guru wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
>
> > Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means
> > no more archive for new content! I figured this day would come.
> > Sucks, especially for the archive.
> >
> > So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web
> > based alternatives? I've never found any.
> Yeah, that's a shame - GG was handy when you needed to search something
> in a pinch.
>
> AFAIK there are only paid web based clients, EasyNews comes to mind and
> they are excellent (if a bit pricey) specially if you are into
> binaries. Keep an eye out for end of year sales if that's of interest
> to you.

I haven't been into binaries since last millennium. Holy Crap $10 a month
for EasyNews! Doesn't look like there are any other web based providers.
There's some that let you download from the web, but I don't see the point.

> I'd been using Eternal September (free) with Thunderbird (free) until
> today but have now switched to XanaNews (I know, don't ask) for the
> time being since Thunderbird gets more bloated with every release and
> the UI makes me want to poke my eyes out. But Xananews is not open
> source, so I'm probably going to try lwblat in the coming days.

Yeah, I used Eternal September for awhile. I tried Thunderbird, but it's
been probably 10 years. Nothing met the convenience of GG.

I'm trying to remember what my old program was that I liked way back
in the day. At least I'll be able to set spam filters I assume, GG doesn't
filter anything and it's been getting bad again the last couple months.

It might have been xnews, but I think I remember using something
that wasn't free to buy that was better. Maybe Forte' I'm not sure I want
to spend $30 on that again, just for here. I'll look into other alternatives.

- Justisaur

[justisaur]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:55:45 -0800, Justisaur wrote:

> It might have been xnews, but I think I remember using something that
> wasn't free to buy that was better. Maybe Forte' I'm not sure I want to
> spend $30 on that again, just for here. I'll look into other
> alternatives.

Hey, trying out Pan newsreader. It's suppsed to be like Forte' but open
source, and for linux, but they have a windows version.

Looks nice, but it's been crashing on me when I try replying. I just
tried running it as admin and it seems like it might be working now.

- Justisaur

[Justisaur]

Nope it's having display issues where scrolling gives me partial
unreadable lines, or blank lines, or blocks of black. Guess I need to
try another.

- Justisaur

[JAB]

On 14/12/2023 23:20, Justisaur wrote:
> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
> more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
> especially for the archive.
>

Yep I still use it on my iPad but I'm not surprised that they are
removing support. When the actually servers start disappearing then I'll
be worried.

[Xocyll]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Why would you have to shell out again, just use the existing ancient
version of Agent you have.
Still using 2.0/32.640 on Eternal September. Works just fine, basic
usenet hasn't changed really.

Xocyll

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:20:45 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
<just...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
>more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
>especially for the archive.
>
>So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web based
>alternatives? I've never found any.

Oh no! Without the constant influx of new users from GoogleNews, who
will revive twenty-year old posts and then wander away without waiting
for a response? ;-)

Fortunately, there are always premium and free alternatives. The
former are expensive, but have excellent retention; the latter are...
well, free. It is a shame, that there are no easily available
web-based interfaces for Usenet, however. Or even free solutions that
come with pre-configured client software (e.g., has the Usenet server,
username, password already baked into the app's config settings) for
one-click turn-key installations.

I only rarely used Google's sham Usenet... mostly to see if my posts
were actually propagating out or if they had gotten stuck somewhere
;-) This closure is doubly shameful, since Google has the largest
Usenet archive anywhere, and - as many GoogleNews necro-posters have
shown over the years - that archive remains a useful resource.

So... what are the odds Google will transfer its Usenet archive over
to archive.org?

[Mike S.]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:42:28 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:

>Why would you have to shell out again, just use the existing ancient
>version of Agent you have.
>Still using 2.0/32.640 on Eternal September. Works just fine, basic
>usenet hasn't changed really.
>
>Xocyll

Mine is not as old as yours but yeah, any version of Agent is probably
fine if all you are doing is reading messages in groups like this one.

[Mike S.]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:32:41 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh no! Without the constant influx of new users from GoogleNews, who
>will revive twenty-year old posts and then wander away without waiting
>for a response? ;-)

This is exactly what I was thinking when reading the original post for
this thread.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Google's usenet archive was always bad. They clearly were trying to set
themselves up as Orwell's Ministry of Truth over at least usenet if not
as much more of the internet as possible.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Zero.

[Justisaur]

LOL. I don't have it anymore, well maybe on some ancient HD
backup I'd have to dig through, and that's a low probability.

There was a free version at some point, looks like you can't do
killfiles with the free version though which is essential with all
the spam these days.

I apparently still had Thunderbird set up from the last time I tried
to use it 4 years ago, I'll give that a go.

- Justisaur

[Dimensional Traveler]

I've been using Eternal September and Thunderbird for I can't remember
how many years now without any issues.

[Ross Ridge]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm trying to remember what my old program was that I liked way back
>in the day. At least I'll be able to set spam filters I assume, GG doesn't
>filter anything and it's been getting bad again the last couple months.

Eternal September seems to do its own spam filtering. I don't see any,
at least not to any of the newsgroups I follow that regularily get
legitimate posts. I see the odd bit of spam in newsgroups that get few
if any real posts these days.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

[Dimensional Traveler]

On 12/16/2023 8:35 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm trying to remember what my old program was that I liked way back
>> in the day. At least I'll be able to set spam filters I assume, GG doesn't
>> filter anything and it's been getting bad again the last couple months.
>
> Eternal September seems to do its own spam filtering. I don't see any,
> at least not to any of the newsgroups I follow that regularily get
> legitimate posts. I see the odd bit of spam in newsgroups that get few
> if any real posts these days.
>

Someone I know in another newsgroup keeps in contact with the person
behind eternal september and was reporting that he was working overtime
trying to build filters against the recent spam flood. Apparently the
individual or group behind it was taunting him and his efforts in some
forum.

[Anssi Saari]

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:

> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
> more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
> especially for the archive.

> So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web based
> alternatives? I've never found any.

I don't know a web based alternative for reading and posting, unless
https://narkive.com/ is one? Not sure. Sometimes my searches find hits
in old Usenet posts in narkive.com.

Someone linked https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com/ in news.groups which
has an archive but it's only accessible via NNTP.

I don't know any Windows based newsreaders either, or I've heard people
use and complain about Thunderbird. I only use it for email. Well, of
course, my beloved Gnus would work in Windows too but has a bit of a
learning curve, to put it mildly.

[Anssi Saari]

I'd assume Google took this action now due to the excessive spamming
campaigns recently.

[JAB]

On 15/12/2023 19:05, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> I've been using Eternal September and Thunderbird for I can't remember
> how many years now without any issues.

That's what I've been using for the last couple of years since my ISP
dropped NG support. Generally it works fine although sometimes it can be
a bit finicky when it won't make a post as it says it has no connection
and very occasionally posts just don't show-up at all. Oh and a couple
of times the settings have just been completely lost.

[Zaghadka]

I'm pretty sure the Wayback Machine has already taken care of it.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

[Justisaur]

On 12/17/2023 3:43 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
>> more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
>> especially for the archive.
>
>> So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web based
>> alternatives? I've never found any.
>
> I don't know a web based alternative for reading and posting, unless
> https://narkive.com/ is one? Not sure. Sometimes my searches find hits
> in old Usenet posts in narkive.com.

It has a reply button, but you have to "log in or sign up", and the page
that goes to is apparently blank. Perhaps there's some hidden way to
register and params to put in the url to log in. That's at least a way
to see posts here - It's not obvious but I figured out to just put in
the newsgroup name in the url before it. For here:

https://comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action.narkive.com/

Interesting, and definitely worth digging into further. It's at least a
way to browse the group if I'm away from my home computer.

I don't see a way to search the archive once GG quits archiving, but
again, maybe a hidden ability.

I'm at home since covid most of the time now, so I probably don't need
browser based anymore anyway. I am planning on an 11 vacation next year
though.

Thanks.

>
> Someone linked https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com/ in news.groups which
> has an archive but it's only accessible via NNTP.

That's a possible alternative for the archive at least for when GG quits
archiving.

>
> I don't know any Windows based newsreaders either, or I've heard people
> use and complain about Thunderbird. I only use it for email. Well, of
> course, my beloved Gnus would work in Windows too but has a bit of a
> learning curve, to put it mildly.

I could run Linux in Windows if I really wanted to. I'd probably rather
just shell out $30 for Agent if it comes to that. Thunderbird is
working fine for me *so far*. I tried the trial for Agent, but
everything like spellcheck, and spam filtering is disabled in the trial.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

[Xocyll]

rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) looked up from reading the

entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I'm trying to remember what my old program was that I liked way back
>>in the day. At least I'll be able to set spam filters I assume, GG doesn't
>>filter anything and it's been getting bad again the last couple months.
>
>Eternal September seems to do its own spam filtering. I don't see any,
>at least not to any of the newsgroups I follow that regularily get
>legitimate posts. I see the odd bit of spam in newsgroups that get few
>if any real posts these days.

My experience as well. In fact the only spam shit I see is posted
through google groups, some wizard herbal doctor who can cure
everything, or some guy selling bootleg textbooks.

Now that google is killing google groups all that nonsense should go
away and these groups remain nearly spam free.

Not like the 90s!

Xocyll

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:32:49 -0800, Justisaur <just...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 12/17/2023 3:43 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means no
>>> more archive for new content! I figured this day would come. Sucks,
>>> especially for the archive.
>>
>>> So anyone have any idea what they're talking about with other web based
>>> alternatives? I've never found any.
>>
>> I don't know a web based alternative for reading and posting, unless
>> https://narkive.com/ is one? Not sure. Sometimes my searches find hits
>> in old Usenet posts in narkive.com.
>
>It has a reply button, but you have to "log in or sign up", and the page
>that goes to is apparently blank. Perhaps there's some hidden way to
>register and params to put in the url to log in. That's at least a way
>to see posts here - It's not obvious but I figured out to just put in
>the newsgroup name in the url before it. For here:

>https://comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action.narkive.com/

Ranked 490th.

Well, it's not last place. I know there are a number of groups that
still get some REAL activity, but - given how quiet Usenet is in
general - I thought we'd be a /bit/ higher...

Only 20 years of archiving though (both in blueworldhosting and
narkive). That's about half of Usenet's history (and misses out on
/all/ of Usenet's heyday).

Is it just me, or is there no way to SEARCH narkive.com? What's the
point of an archive that can't be searched? It might as well be random
data...

[Dimensional Traveler]

I assume Google took this action in response to all the _complaints_
about recent spamming campaigns.

[Ross Ridge]

Anssi Saari <anssi...@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>I'd assume Google took this action now due to the excessive spamming
>campaigns recently.

Google is a big giant corporation. They don't move that quickly.
This must have been in the planning for a while now.

[H1M3M]

Justisaur wrote:
> Well so much for my preferred way to read and post. Also this means
> no more archive for new content! I figured this day would come.
> Sucks, especially for the archive.
>

That's the thing that worries me. Are they going to release the archive
they bought from Deja News in 2001?

It's going to be a massive work to download and save everything before
they close in february.

[Justisaur]

According to their notice, they aren't closing it, they just aren't
going to add to it or allow posting through it.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 00:19:51 -0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Anssi Saari <anssi...@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>>I'd assume Google took this action now due to the excessive spamming
>>campaigns recently.
>
>Google is a big giant corporation. They don't move that quickly.
>This must have been in the planning for a while now.

Especially since Google has a penchant for shutting down services (and
has been accelearating the trend in recent years). Usenet isn't
something easily monetized, even for data harvesting purposes (since
many posters on Usenet utilize anonymizing handles that can't be
tracked back to specific Google accounts).

If a spam-blitz caused some complaints, it was just the immediate
trigger to something that was likely in the planning stages for months
or years.

I'm personally not that upset that Google is parting ways with
Usenet... except for its archival purposes. Then again, I'm also not
sure how much Usenet traffic sourced from GoogleGroups rather than
proper NNTP servers. If it is a significant percentage, then it could
be catastrophic. But honestly, I just don't know. Still, I have faith
that Usenet will survive this too.