3DFX for outlaws?
Alexei Novikov
In article <5igdkh$bet$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, celi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Celia Chu)
wrote:
> Does outlaw support the 3d cards?
Doesn't, but will.
> Also, is there going to be a map editor
> so we can make our own?
Not official, but homebrewed.
Alex.
Celia Chu
Does outlaw support the 3d cards? Also, is there going to be a map editor
--
"Theatre is Life with the dull bits cut out."
Alfred Hitchcock
celi...@unixg.ubc.ca
Lee
Nope, its not a real 3D engine like Quake is. The characters are sprites
and bitmaps. Editor? I have no idea.
Celia Chu wrote in article <5igdkh$bet$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>...
Darwin
actually there was a post earlier today by alex? saying that they are
going to release a d3d patch sometime soon...
-d
Wayne Bell
In article <Alexei_Novikov-...@170.140.39.35>, "Alexei Novikov" <Alexei_...@learnlink.emory.edu[cut this]> wrote:
>In article <5igdkh$bet$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, celi...@unixg.ubc.ca (Celia Chu)
>wrote:
>
>
Outlaws sure looked like a build-derived game to me. Build-derived games
can't take advantage of cards like the 3dfx/voodoo.
AR
Celia Chu <celi...@unixg.ubc.ca> wrote in article
<5igdkh$bet$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>...
> Does outlaw support the 3d cards? Also, is there going to be a map editor
> so we can make our own?
>
> --
> "Theatre is Life with the dull bits cut out."
> Alfred Hitchcock
> celi...@unixg.ubc.ca
>
Uhm... wot does Outlaw need the 3d power for? the game is made of sprites.
but I think there'll be a map editor, if not from LA, I'm sure someone will
do it ;>
Randall Flagg
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:52:55 -0500, "Lee" <sun...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Nope, its not a real 3D engine like Quake is. The characters are sprites
>and bitmaps. Editor? I have no idea.
ANd what the heck does this have to do with 3D card support? The
levels are still 3D and can be accellerated with a 3D card.
JIMMY8879
uh just wondering buy why would outlaws need 3d support when graphics
couldn not be improved in any way and frame rate
is already good enuf for me?
Chris
Even if the graphics are not significantly improved, I like the idea
that 90% of the processor workload is taken over by the 3d card. I
made up the 90% part(don't know the actual #'s), but the test utility
that came with mdk rated my P100 as a P90 system, when I used the 3d
patch, the rating jumped to a rating of above a P200mmx!, so the
graphics aren't the important part to me, it is the freed up
processing power that can be used for the big fights with large
numbers of enemies. I may be wrong, but I see my 3d card as sort of
an xtra processor that does nothing but the graphics, is that
assumption wrong?
later, Chris
Andreas Baus
On 23 Apr 1997 07:06:51 GMT, jimm...@aol.com (JIMMY8879) wrote:
>uh just wondering buy why would outlaws need 3d support when graphics
>couldn not be improved in any way and frame rate
>is already good enuf for me?
WHAT??? If you do not consider bilinear texture filtering as a major
improvement in graphics quality, then you obviously have *never* seen a
3D enhanced game in action... and frame rates can *never* be good enough... ;)
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
the_mad_somniloquist
In article <5jl4vo$apk$1...@pf1.phil.uni-sb.de>, Andreas says...>>On 23 Apr 1997 07:06:51 GMT, jimm...@aol.com (JIMMY8879) wrote:>>uh just wondering buy why would outlaws need 3d support when graphics>>couldn not be improved in any way and frame rate >>is already good enuf for me?>>WHAT??? If you do not consider bilinear texture filtering as a major>improvement in graphics quality, then you obviously have *never* seen a>3D enhanced game in action... and frame rates can *never* be good enough... ;)>>-- > ----> ----------------------------------------------------------------------->[Insert joke here.] ----> -->an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)Outlaws cannot be improved with a 3D acclerator card due to the fact that it's a2&1/2 D game. Not polygonal, no added effects. You're looking at textures running around,flat, not mapped. If the engine were polygonal (Quake, Jedi, Unreal, 3rd Gen engines)it would help. As it is, it's a second gen. like doom. No improvement. Oh, andOutlaw's frame rate should be pretty damn good without...TMS
David Navarro
Dennis Garlick wrote:
>
> JIMMY8879 wrote:
> >
> > uh just wondering buy why would outlaws need 3d support when graphics
> > couldn not be improved in any way and frame rate
> > is already good enuf for me?
>
> ha...
Ha ha ha what? Outlaws is a sector-based engine, not a true 3-D one
(true as in poligonal, I don't care if it supports rooms-above-rooms)
It would not benefit in any way from a 3d accelerator. A faster CPU,
yes. MMX, maybe, but certainly not a 3DFX card.
(By the way, I'm not slamming the game or its graphics. I love the
gameplay, and I think the graphics are spot-on for that style of
gameplay)
--
_____________________________________________________________
David Navarro
Digital Effects Animator
DreamWorks SKG
As above,
so below.
Darwin
By the way, did I mention you don't have a clue... I have seen it
running, and both Diamond & 3dfx will be showing it a CGDC (computer
game developers confernce) in San Jose this weekend...
Why don't you try thinking before you speak. Just because it's a
'sector' base engine doesn't be the data isn't stored internally as 3
dimensional data...
I really hate these back seat 'net' experts!
-d
Dennis Garlick
T. Matthew Boyington
I mailed Lucasarts about a D3D patch and I was told something was
in the works.
Matt
Dennis Garlick <pgar...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
<335F58...@ozemail.com.au>...
Alexei Novikov
In article <335F92...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdreamworks.com>, David Navarro
<dna...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdreamworks.com> wrote:
> Ha ha ha what? Outlaws is a sector-based engine, not a true 3-D one
> (true as in poligonal, I don't care if it supports rooms-above-rooms)
>
> It would not benefit in any way from a 3d accelerator. A faster CPU,
> yes. MMX, maybe, but certainly not a 3DFX card.
露t's simply amazing. Sector based <> polygonal? What are sector then?
circles? Curved surfaces? Sectors in sector based games are made up of
polygons as well. 3D card can accelerate rendering in so called "2.5D"
engines just as well. And even though the characters are flat bitmaps, 3D
card can theoretically anti-alias them as well.
Besides, what does a 3D card do to improve a "true 3D" game?
a) It makes it faster
b) It adds anti-aliasing and texture filtering to eliminate pixelation at
close distance and distortions at long distance.
c) It increases number of colors used (256 to 64K)
d) It may also improve lighting (partly due to c) )
e) It can add/improve transluency effects
f) It does something else I forgot to mention
What of it is unapplicable for "2.5D" Outlaws engine? Just maybe f). So,
what makes you say a 3D card can't improve Outlaws? Granted, the change
might not be as dramatic as for, say, Quake, but there will be an
improvement.
Alex.
Andreas Baus
Darwin <"darwinx@"@_NO_SPAM_platypi.com> wrote:
: David Navarro wrote:
: > Ha ha ha what? Outlaws is a sector-based engine, not a true 3-D one
: > (true as in poligonal, I don't care if it supports rooms-above-rooms)
: > It would not benefit in any way from a 3d accelerator. A faster CPU,
: > yes. MMX, maybe, but certainly not a 3DFX card.
: By the way, did I mention you don't have a clue... I have seen it
: running, and both Diamond & 3dfx will be showing it a CGDC (computer
: game developers confernce) in San Jose this weekend...
: Why don't you try thinking before you speak. Just because it's a
: 'sector' base engine doesn't be the data isn't stored internally as 3
: dimensional data...
Exactly!
... and even *if* the data was stored in a way not *directly* usable for a 3D
accelerator card, it surely could be *converted* very easily into polygonal
data on-the-fly, using the extra processor power that's made free by the 3D
card... I honestly think even Doom or Wolfenstein could be adapted to take
advantage of a 3D board, if someone would just try to... (hey, didn't ID make
the Wolfenstein source code publically available some while ago? Maybe I should take a look... ;)
Zimmy
Take a look at screen shots from the Nintendo 64 version of Doom (Doom64)
for those who don't believe that a 2.5D game cannot be greatly enhanced by
a 3D card.
I personally would love to see Final Doom or Doom2 using anti-aliasing or Z
buffering.
Never happen though.
Zimmy
Darwin <"darwinx@"@_NO_SPAM_platypi.com> wrote in article
<5jofkm$moj$1...@news.wco.com>...
> David Navarro wrote:
> >
> > Dennis Garlick wrote:
> > >
David Navarro
Dave Glue wrote:
>
> David Navarro <dna...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdreamworks.com> wrote in article
> <335F92...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdreamworks.com>...
>
> > > Graphics could not be improved in any way with a 3D card??? Ha ha ha
> > > ha...
> >
> > (true as in poligonal, I don't care if it supports rooms-above-rooms)
>
> though the graphics were at a level where they couldn't be improved and
> frame rate was "fine". Neither is true.
>
> When you look at your screen, and you can't tell that you're not looking
> out of a window, that's when graphics will have reached their limit. We're
> many decades away.
Actually, I've had to wipe considerable amounts of egg off my face over
that matter... Apparently, a 3Dfx enhanced version *is* in the works...
<shrug>
Travis Hamer
Stephen Hassard wrote:
>
> On 29 Apr 1997 01:15:39 GMT, "Dave Glue" <dav...@interlog.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >JIMMY8879 <jimm...@aol.com> wrote in article
> ><19970423070...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >> uh just wondering buy why would outlaws need 3d support when graphics
> >> couldn not be improved in any way and frame rate
> >> is already good enuf for me?
> >
> >be _significantly_ improved, and the frame rate for Outlaws is very poor (I
> >have a P166 32 megs). The problem though, is the game is not really "3D"
> >and difficult to adapt to 3D accelerators.
> >
>
> Outlaws is slow on an Intel 166? Jeese, I have a Cyrix 6x86 P166+ and
> the demo ran like hell!
>
> Steve
I have a p133 and in full screen 640x480 mode it runs smooth. Of
course, the game freezes in full screen mode any time a movie comes
up. So, I had to play with cutscenes disabled, and everytime I switched
levels, quit, select window mode, kill the bad guy (without mouse
support), and watch the movie that way.
Still, I think it was worth it. For western fans, at least. The
multiplayer is just too cool.
Travis
Dave Glue
The Mad Somniloquist wrote in article <5jm5aj$8...@lori.zippo.com>...
cannot be improved with a 3D acclerator card due to the fact that it's
a2&1/2 D game. Not polygonal, no added effects. You're looking at
textures running around,flat, not mapped. If the engine were polygonal
(Quake, Jedi, Unreal, 3rd Gen engines)it would help. As it is, it's a
second gen. like doom. No improvement. Oh, andOutlaw's frame rate should
be pretty damn good without...TMS
______
"Should be", but isn't. Outlaws frame rate is awful, IMO. Quite
surprising considering the limited graphical detail.
Pedro Colman-Arrellaga
On 29 Apr 1997 01:20:09 GMT, "Dave Glue" <dav...@interlog.com> wrote:
>
>
>Darwin <"darwinx@"@_NO_SPAM_platypi.com> wrote in article
><5jofkm$moj$1...@news.wco.com>...
>> By the way, did I mention you don't have a clue... I have seen it
>> running, and both Diamond & 3dfx will be showing it a CGDC (computer
>> game developers confernce) in San Jose this weekend...
>
>Well it's come and gone, no news as such. Where did you hear this?
You're wrong here. Go to Next Generation's web site and they mention
the 3dfx version of Outlaws at the CGDC.
"• Outlaws - It had considerably cleaner textures due to filtering and
mip-mapping but not massively different from the original."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro Colman-Arréllaga | Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so
hiss...@cris.com | many more believers than thinkers.
hiss...@concentric.net | - Bruce Calvert
------------------------|
| Do I contradict myself?
Under | Very well then, I contradict myself,
Construction | (I am large, I contain multitudes).
| - Walt Whitman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Hassard
Rick Reitano
Next Generation's Website has a few new (4/28) articles about 3DFX. One
mentions accelerated versions of several games including:
Dave Glue
Dave Glue
Dave Glue
Mathieu Desjarlais
check it out at :
http://www.next-generation.com/news/042997e.chtml
Dave Glue
Dave Glue <dav...@interlog.com> wrote in article
<01bc543b$5e3eaa20$dc98d4c7@Pdaveacg>...
Well, found my own answer. It was shown at the CGDC non 3DFX - great
stuff!
Dave Glue
Stephen Hassard <shas...@earthling.net> wrote in article
<33655f4...@news.intergate.bc.ca>...
> Outlaws is slow on an Intel 166? Jeese, I have a Cyrix 6x86 P166+ and
> the demo ran like hell!
My opinion as well- so what's the disagreement? :)
(Obviously, I have a different meaning for "running like hell". :)
Compared to Duke3D or accelerated Quake -no, it runs _very_ choppy.
Dave Glue
Zimmy <zimmy@sunworks*.com> wrote in article
<01bc52cd$40dc8b60$47307da3@zimmy>...
> Take a look at screen shots from the Nintendo 64 version of Doom (Doom64)
> for those who don't believe that a 2.5D game cannot be greatly enhanced
by
> a 3D card.
Well, not a great example. I rented N64 and Doom along with it, and it
really doesn't improve it much. After accelerated Quake, I really could
care less- and I still like Doom to some extent. Of course, the extremely
low resolution and blurry TV didn't help the N64 conversion, if the PC
version was in 640*480 with filtering it would look much better- but Quake
is basically Doom with a far better engine, so who cares? Rather have more
original games like Outlaws being converted if someone is going to attempt
a 2.5D conversion.
Dave Glue
Dave Glue <dav...@interlog.com> wrote in article
<01bc54f7$f4e47740$dc98d4c7@Pdaveacg>...
no news as such. Where did you hear this?
>
> Well, found my own answer. It was shown at the CGDC non 3DFX - great
> stuff!
Er, typo of course - "ON 3dfx".
gametime
I don't know the details, but I just returned from the Computer Game
Developers Conference and the Diamond Multimedia Booth (Monster 3D) Was
running a 3D accelerated version of Outlaws. It looked great. Nice and
Smooth.
Andrew S. Liebeskind
In article <01bc5513$cc9cd0e0$dc98d4c7@Pdaveacg>,
Even more interesting -- according to Brian Bruning of 3Dfx, Lucasarts
decided to port Outlaws to the Jedi Knight engine for the D3D version.
Depending when we see the patch, this could be an interesting (if
ambiguous) preview of how JK will perform with D3D...
This is from a post on 3dfx.games.titles on the 3Dfx news server this
morning -- don't have the post handy, or I'd quote it directly.
--
*** Andrew Liebeskind ************************** Hello, small mammal. ***
* "Guess kids these days just can't tell their gravity from their *
* rotating frame of reference." -- _Consider Phlebas_, Iain M. Banks *
*** flat...@clark.net *********** http://www.clark.net/pub/flatline/ ***
Chris
Jon Saloga
On 1 May 1997 12:33:10 GMT, flat...@clark.net (Andrew S. Liebeskind)
wrote:
>Even more interesting -- according to Brian Bruning of 3Dfx, Lucasarts
>decided to port Outlaws to the Jedi Knight engine for the D3D version.
>Depending when we see the patch, this could be an interesting (if
>ambiguous) preview of how JK will perform with D3D...
>
>This is from a post on 3dfx.games.titles on the 3Dfx news server this
>morning -- don't have the post handy, or I'd quote it directly.
Since Outlaws is currently using a completely different (Dark Forces)
engine, doesn't this essentially mean an entire new game? Seems like
one helluva patch to me.
Jon S
Nick Savage
jsa...@mindspring.com (Jon Saloga) wrote:
>Since Outlaws is currently using a completely different (Dark Forces)
>engine, doesn't this essentially mean an entire new game? Seems like
>one helluva patch to me.
>
>Jon S
>
They had a D3D version of Outlaws running at the 3DFX booth at CGDC,
so I am sure that headway is being made on this "one helluva patch."